Finland for Thought
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5.9.2010

Why Swedish-speaking Finns are better than Finnish-speaking Finns

Tags: FI vs. Foreigners,Finns,Sweden — Author: @ 11:25 am

Roughly 5% of Finns are native Swedish speakers known as the “Swedish Finns” or [confusingly] “Finnish Swedes” or [more accurately] “Swedish-speaking Finns” or [Swedishly] “finlandssvenskar” or [Finnishly] “pappa betalar”.

You’ll find most of them located on the southern and western coasts of Finland. They came over centuries ago from Sweden as part of the country’s crusade to spread Christianity and more importantly, expand Sweden’s borders. While most are bilingual, speaking both Swedish and Finnish, you will find a few hillbillies up north who only learned Swedish, essentially quarantining themselves off to a very small part of the country.

They have their own political party which unsurprisingly gets roughly 5% of the vote during elections. They even created their own flag. (identical to the Finnish flag, but with bright red background and Ikea-yellow cross). They have their own semi-autonomous islands, the Åland Islands, located southwest of Finland, but actually much closer to Sweden. Rumor says when all good Swedish-Finns die they go to Åland, or “Finlandssvenskar heaven” – it’s kinda like South Florida for American Jews.

Swedish-speakers are far superior to the Finnish-speakers in every way imaginable – They’re wealthier, they’re more educated, they’re more cultured, they’re more sophisticated, they’re more international, they’re have better social skills, better clothes, better looks, a wayyyyy better language (and easier), they don’t get drunk, they all drive Mercades, they all have boats, they all have summer cottages in the archipelago for their boats, their language is pleasing to the ear, they throw crayfish parties in the summer where they systematically throw expensive crayfish into the trash and giggle while drinking schnapps, their language doesn’t sound robotic drone from the 1950′s. I could go on and on, but you get the picture: Swedish-Finns are better. (once more: Jews)

Unfortunately my partner is a Finnish-speaker, so I won’t ever inherit a boat or a cottage in the archipelago for that boat – so here’s some nasty stereotypes Finns say about the Swedish-Finns: they’re snobs, they think they’re better than everyone, they’re gay, they’re Swedish, they don’t allow Finnish-speakers into their cliques, they don’t give jobs to Finnish-speakers, they control all the power in Finland, they force people to learn Swedish, they have an easier time getting into schools cause the requirements aren’t as hard, they’re loud, at pubs they feel the need to sing stupid songs in unison, they bribed Google Maps to display only Swedish city and road names, handball is lame. I could go and on, but you get the picture: Finnish-speakers are jealous.

I kid, I kid. But it’s all true: There’s probably know bigger taboo in Finland than the relationship between the Finnish speakers and Swedish speakers. You’ll never hear the feeling of animosity discussed publicly. When the two groups are together they’ll never say anything mean, but get them each alone and they’ll…make subtle, caddy comments. But in reality, they’re all just one big unhappy family.


This car is clearly owned by a Finnish-speaker, as it’s an Opel and not a Mercedes.
Photo from Pavel Trebukov

  • anonymous ideas

    That’s a funny collection of stereotypes, nice one!

    But I wanna discuss this issue seriously since unfortunately many people actually believe in these kinds of ideas. This picture of the Swedish speakers comes directly from the start of the 20th century or earlier when they were much stronger than today. Though even back in those days the picture was fundamentally flawed.

    First of all, the Swedish speakers have never been a unified group. Roughly speaking, it has always been split in two: the elites living next to the capital area/main areas AND the farmers and fishermen living in Ostrobothnia (and around the capital area). The second group has nothing to do with the typical stereotypes about richness, power etc. and it’s actually the larger part of the Swedish speakers. It’s also more originally Swedish than the elite group: the farmers actually tend to have roots in Sweden.

    A large part of the elite families instead have German, Dutch, English, Scottish, Russian, French etc. roots. Some are originally Finnish speaking families (for example the nobel family name “Carpelan” comes from “Karpelainen”). German (Germany, Switzerland etc.) families include Mannerheim, Stockmann, Fazer, Paulig, Ehrnrooth, Pacius. As a sidenote, the German families are also very strong in Sweden.

    Secondly, like I hinted at the start, even the old elite group has mostly become middle class. Only a few families remain their old status (like Ehrnrooth, which has Baltic German roots). Most are just your average citizens. They are also so mixed with the majority that you can’t tell a real difference. I know since I’m studying at Hanken.

    Finally, a funny fact: what occupation is the most overrepresented by the Swedish speakers in Finland?
    -Farmer.

  • http://funnyfinland.blogspot.com pellicle

    Hi

    >you will find a few hillbillies up north who only learned Swedish, essentially quarantining themselves off to a very small part of the country.

    what, like 90% or so of the land area of the country?

    I agree with you however on the language thing and indeed tend towards agreeing with you on the preferable attitudes of the swedish speakers.

    http://funnyfinland.blogspot.com/2009/08/mind-your-language.html

    I suspect its more related to the fact that the Finnish only speakers conform to your hillbilly model and are therefore far less exposed to the sorts of things that international boundaries and travel expose you to. Different food culture, different fashion culture, different thinking and new ideas.

    Sadly the only foreigner they’ll imagine in the east is a Russian and of course then the winter war is dredged out as the basis for cultural relations there.

  • http://funnyfinland.blogspot.com pellicle

    whoops … misread the hillbillies, I thought you were referring to the Soumenkieli majority not the Svenska minority in lappland. But they can always move south through Turtola and Oulu or something.

    heh

  • x

    How 5% of hyllybyllys manage to be majority in the democratic process of putting their language as second official language with compulsory study for the remnant 95% is another wonder of such democracy.

  • x

    There should be more democracy: sweedish be the only language.

  • Realist

    This article is a generalisation of stereotypes and misnomer.
    For every one of the cases I’m sure that there are as many counter-points.

    For example. At a wedding party at Hotel Kamp last year I was approached by a SSF who could have best been described as mutton dressed as lamb. She was immaculately and expensively dressed, bejewelled and drunk as a skunk, she proceeded to proposition me whilst trying to remain upright. She failed on both counts and then was sick over the sofa. Really classy. So sophisticated.

    It is fact that the Swedish speakers *generally* are more wealthy than the Finnish speakers. Of course this is also a generalisation but there is some weight here. It is not surprising either considering that the Swedes have exploited the Finns for hundresd of years. It actually amazes me that the Finns rebelled against this exploitation. Now they are ‘all friends’ so it’s a moot point anyway.

    Åland: this region is just a burden to Finland. Steadfastly refusing to cede control of internal policy and government they insist also that Finlands economy support them. Health, education, communications, everything in Åland costs much more per capita than anywhere else in Finland due to the lacking economies of scale and geographical remoteness. Parasitical existence is not intended as insult, just a statement of fact. You can have your cake and eat it. Åland continues to prove that whilst Finnish kindergarten class sizes continue to grow and health centers are closed down on the mainland.

    During WWII Ålanders prostituted themselves very profitably by offering the services of their merchant fleet to both the allies and to the Germans. As neither side could ever be sure who’s cargo was being carried they enjoyed unprecidented safety at sea whilst the rest of the allied merchant vessels played Russian roulette in the Atlantic trying to keep the fight against Nazi tyranny going. A fight that once won naturally benefitted also the ‘neutral’ Ålanders.

    In summary: Swedish speaking Finns are a not really very significant minority and it is about time that Finnish Law and policy started reflecting the reality rather than their previous subordination of Finnish people.
    In the forseeable future their number will be overtaken by English or Russian speakers. I look forward to the day when learning Swedish in Finnish schools is a quaint option and the education time of our children can be used for something elseful – like Russian or Chinese.

    Respectfully.

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    This was rather interesting. Thanks for the flattery.

    Comment no 1 is very good. Sadly, we are not all rich. I guess as Helsinki is the capital and largest city and thus where Finland’s collective imagination is largely formed, the image of Swedish-speaking Finns is largely based on the those that are found living in the capital area, in Eira, in Grankulla etc. These people are generally wealthy and sometimes can be a little bit snobby. But they appear as this to the vast majority of Swedish-speakers just as much as they do to Finnish-speakers. The vast majority of us, as comment no 1 so correctly says, have little or nothing in common with this group and it is very irritating for us to be “tarred with the same brush”. The vast majority of us who live in eastern and western Nyland/Uusimaa, Åboland (Turunmaa) and Österbotten (Pohjanmaa) are no superior economically than the average Finnish person. In fact, a number of heavily Swedish-speaking municipalities outside the capital are teetering on the brink of economic crisis (e.g. Raseborg).

    As for Åland, the vast majority of people from Åland would not even consider themselves to be finlandssvenskar. It really is a territory apart.

  • Dave the Revelator

    This blog post is like Uuno Turhapuro blogging about Irish Americans in Boston.

    You don’t seem to know what yer talking about.

  • Nate

    As I said before, you are right about one thing: Swedes are gay. They have no balls, not even to compete. Instead they will call their friends, and if their friends can’t either (90% certain) they will call their friends. That’s what they think networking is about. The worst part is that if the friends of their friends can’t with you, they will make up stories of abuse, corruption, and whatnot, just to try to keep you away from their circles (of 5 to 10 people). They also think gossiping is networking… Ask Assange.

    Swedish girls are a fine piece of ass though, which is why I brought mine back home, my lovely “Sveediss” woman.

  • Visitor

    The average # of gays may be the same, only that in some places they’re more opressed than in others. What other competitions you mean?

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    Now we seem to be speaking about Swedes from Sweden and not Swedish-speaking Finns.

    I would say we’re quite competitive, we have a higher level of participation in associations than on the Finnish-language side, including sport associations.

    I find it interesting that Nate seems to think that being “gay” is automatically negative. I think that says more about his level of advancement than anyone from Sweden. ;) Finland is certainly more conservative than our western neighbours though in many social questions. Look at the fact that we’ve only just got our first women bishop – and not just a few in the church still don’t really accept it. However, we urbanised later – this may have something to do with it. I guess it’s a topic for a whole separate discussion.

  • Winter (Go Protons, Cancer in remission, will soon be removed from “Dead Man Walking” video.

    send all Swedish-speaking Finns to Darfur. There fixed your language problem, and they can all build Sauna’s there for the locals.

    Or water well’s, so the bodies can be placed in them.

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    Winter, are you quoting Heikki Tala?

  • Hank W.

    Actually Swedish Finns are Finns living in Sweden, and they can be Finnish-speaking or Finlandswedes. And then theres also a Finnish minority in Sweden, but theyse Finnish-speaking Swedes and not Swedenfinns ;)

  • http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com Prussian Blue

    When I was young I met someone who described herself a Swedish Finn, but I didn’t really know anything about Finland, so I just assumed all Finns are Swedish Finns lol Now I know better.

  • Nittygritty

    OK, enough of this bullshit. Let’s get down to some Nokia stuff. Quickest way to get poor Phil out of this hellhole.

  • Visitor

    Who cares if they’re gays. Is it your business? Do they belong to you?
    As long as they don’t harass you, let them be the way they were created by

  • Visitor

    Heard Nokia has got a new owner that works 27 hrs per day…are you gonna make at least 60 hrs per day? lol

  • Johannes Sicarius

    It’s not “Svecoman vs “Fennoman” anymore?

  • Visitor

    Svenoman-Fennoman or Svencoman-Fencoman?.
    I prefer Svengirl-Finngirl.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    Elop’s nomination is the first step in the “Partnership for Peace” program that aims to make Nokia M$-compatible before the final takeover. Buh-bye Symbian and Meego. Ballmer’s words about him wishing to continue working with Elop are prophetic.

  • Henri K.

    Nah… Most Finnish speakers in Finland could’nt really give two shits about the Swedish-Finns. SF’s privileges annoy many people, but really, most FF’s steer well clear of the SF’s, mainly because they don’t especially care for their company, nor do they aspire to be part of the SF clique. Vice versa, of course. But jealousy or actual animosity do not enter into it.

    Interestingly, one of my good friends is a SF who made a conscious decision to avoid other SF’s, mainly because he finds them insufferable. And that’s incl. his own family.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    #25: He probably knows that it’s a cancer which he loves. At least if he toes the official M$ party line. ;)

  • tibor

    Henri K. said his SF friend finds other SFs insufferable. I don’t know really? My original tongue was Finnish, and my Swedish is rather rudimentary as I left 20 years ago. Yet, I found the SFs to be more cultured, well read, and just more cheery to be around. Of course, this is my own broad generalization. But overall, this seems to be the case. They have less of the the disposition to be negative, as the Ugrian Finns do. But, certainly, Ugrians want to have no part of SF culture nor company, except of course when it comes to revering Marshal Mannerheim. This shows the Ugrian double standards and hypocrisy.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    #28: Your view of “Ugrians” corresponds to typical True Finns voters, especially wrt Mannerheim (who, incidentally, was a strong supporter of the detested pakkoruotsi). Not all Finnish speakers are bouncers at suburban watering holes, you know.

  • Henri K.

    Tibor, I suppose it was just that forced cheerfulness, which drove him to desperation. As for being cultured and well read, I wonder… True life experiences have made me compare SF block more to Beverly Hills valley boys & girls than Gitane-smoking French intellectuals. Money seems to be of great importance. But hey, what do I know.

    Freeridin’ Franklin, wasn’t it Mannerheim who coined the phrase “Suomessa puhutaan suomea”? Not that I care one way or the other, my pakkoruotsi is already done. :D

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    Henri K, you’re speaking of only a very, very small minority of Swedish-speaking Finns; those that live in the capital. The vast majority of us find those brats as annoying as you and most other normal people do. It’s not because they are Swedish-speaking that they are annoying, there are Finnish-speaking spoilt rich people too.

    When Mannerheim returned from his time in Russian military, he could barely speak fluent Finnish. He had to struggle quite a lot to regain a level of fluency.

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    Haha, thanks no 32. Perhaps you’d like to develop your argument.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    “Freeridin’ Franklin, wasn’t it Mannerheim who coined the phrase “Suomessa puhutaan suomea”?”

    According to the True Finns he probably was. In real life, I seriously doubt that as a Swedish-speaking aristocrat he was an anti-SSF bigot. ;) As an anecdote, he stressed the importance of studying Swedish to Edwin Linkomies’ daughter who eventually proceeded to become a Swedish teacher.

  • Henri K.

    Freeridin’ Franklin, dunno about Mannerheim’s possible bigotry, but historically it is certain that after independence he stressed the importance of Finnish as the national language, much like Sibelius and Gallen-Kallela. As for bigotry among SF’s in general, well, I hate to break it to you, but they are probably way more racist than FF’s, what with the skull measuring and genetical theories.

    I’m not a True Finn by the way, so you can drop it.

    Jonas G., I know what you mean, but still… There’s something very Beverly Hills 90210 especially among the SFs, I think.

  • Visitor

    So those Mannerheim, Sibelius and Kallela couldn’t speak much Finnish…

  • Henri K.

    Visitor, Mannerheim improved his Finnish later, Sibelius and Gallen-Kallela were Finnish speakers and Kalevala-enthusiasts to boot (although Sibelius’ father used Swedish at home).

  • x

    I bet most of the forum visitors here can speak Finnish better than mannerheimi. :)
    But hey, here Swedish is proportionately very important: official language from 8% support. Whenever unemployed I could apply to study it. Anyway even if you knew Finnish decently it wouldn’t ever be enough, and kela is off, so Go Swedish Go!! :)

  • anonymous ideas

    What’s the problem with Mannerheim being a Swedish speaker? Our country happens to be bilingual. It doesn’t make him less Finnish that he spoke Swedish.

    By the way, do you know that the most famous king of Sweden, Gustav II Adolf (Gustavus Adolphus), “The Lion of the North” who made Sweden(-Finland) a great power, had German as his mother tongue? It’s very typical that the nobel families have foreign roots (like Adolf and Mannerheim German) and speak various languages.

    Mannerheim certainly didn’t have anything against the Finnish language. That is evident from the historical knowledge.

  • x

    Ok it’s bilingual, fifty-fifty shared by 94% and 6% of people. Cultural richness! Many people stick to one language and didn’t show proficiency or interest about speaking the other: some/many Finns, and among them Mannerheim too. Am I wrong?

  • mmh

    This blog post is like Uuno Turhapuro blogging about Irish Americans in Boston.

    You don’t seem to know what yer talking about.

    Does he ever?

  • mmh

    Visitor, Mannerheim improved his Finnish later, Sibelius and Gallen-Kallela were Finnish speakers and Kalevala-enthusiasts to boot (although Sibelius’ father used Swedish at home).

    Actually both Sibelius and Gallen-Kallela were Swedish speakers. I have no idea how good at Finnish Gallen-Kallela was, but från radio interviews you can hear that Finnish certainly wasn’t Sibelius’ first language.

  • tibor

    Now this is one of the best threads on Phil’s blog ever. While I said, that, SFs tend to be cheerier than FFs, I still often find their version of the Swedish language somewhat comical. Tule kiire till bussen, and then Närpes dialect and southwest Swedish is an anomaly in and of itself. The Kingäs Swedes from Sweden donät often even acknowledge or realize that Swedish is actually an official language in Finland. Having said all of that: I am not anti SF, and hope that pakkoruotsi will remain. Mannerheim was a fascinating man no doubt. Funny that, many right wingers who despise Swedish, revere him so much.

  • tibor

    Oh yes, I forgot to add that, I do not support the True Finns. Heck, I don’t even live there anymore. But when I did, I suppose I was voting SDP and Kesk. Strange eh?

  • Iammorefascinating

    Mannerheim was a fascinating man: many doubts.

  • Sven-Åke

    Don’t know whether Swedish-speakers are snobs or not, but they really REALLY hang on to their rights. Where else -except in Finland- could a 5% minority demand that the majority of 95% has to learn their language and “service” them in Swedish when the upper class so wants.

  • tibor

    Said Iammorefascinating:
    Mannerheim was a fascinating man: many doubts.

    Ok sure. Why not, but I think certain historical figures are fascinating, even though I disagree with them. Lenin was fascinating; but so was Mannerheim. Che; Castro, Ben Gurion; it’s all subjective. A liberal (US style) would not think that John Wayne was a good actor. A US style conservative would. Myself, as neither, or both, thinks that John Wayne was a great personality actor. I disagreed with his politics mostly, but that has nothing to do with considering him fascinating. Would have I offered him a Tennesee Williams or Eugene O’Neill adaptation? Of course not.

  • Shem

    Don’t you Finns see that there is too much hate in Finland?
    You hate foreigners.
    You hate Russians.
    You hate Swedish Finns.
    You hate and are jealous of the Swedish.
    Too much damn hate from you people. That is why you lot will never be happy,and will continue committing suicides at an alarming rate.

    Wasn’t the US colonized by Britain?
    Yes,and they have moved on. You people claim to hate Sweden so much,because Sweden colonized your country.MOVE ON!

    Besides, if Sweden had not invaded your country, you people would still be a bunch of white savages ,eating stale hard bread, and living unwashed in the forests. You need to thank Sweden for putting “some class in you a**”

  • Iammorefascinating

    Down with those men. C’mon Finnish chicks!

  • Swedishchick

    Why do Finns look like mongols? Is it because there part Russian or part Eurasian?

  • fff

    #48: According to a recent study Finns are the happiest people in the world w/ the Danes. #50: Have your eyes checked and head examined.

  • Anonymous

    :-) Have a walk today in Helsinki, in Oulu or in Joenssu ;-( ;-(( ;;-((( ;-(((((( ;-/ ;-(( Don’t you see with what faces they repeat to be the happiest ones? lol

  • Cunt Cuntington

    This place is even worse than before.

  • Pekka

    Check this out – Mannerheim speaking old-fashioned but flawless Finnish during his 75th birthday in 1942: http://www.yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&g=1&ag=3&t=22&a=380

    Btw. Are these comments monitored at all? Such a huge part of these are trolls…

  • mukana-mukaan

    http://www.mannerheim.fi/01_elama/e_kieli.htm
    “His language errors gave occasion for benevolent pleasantry among the Finnish-speaking population in particular.”
    and foreigners too.

  • flawless

    mukana ehm..mukaan

  • 58

    53 and 54

  • Anyone’s Better than this blog

    So Phil is following the fine tradition of hate comedy.

    It hilarious until some drunk Finn tries to smash your face in because he heard the wrong language. But Phil and his merry band of hateful wastes of space like Hank wouldn’t give a toss. They’re not responsible. They can stir shit up but they’re not responsible. Pathetic wastes of space like him never are.

  • prata på svenska

    Where’s keilaniemi? With internet map i see only swedish names?

  • prata på danska

    Swedish is compulsory. Why not Danish? But is Finnish compulsory?

  • erep

    you have a long way to go to understand this country

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    Finnish and Swedish are compulsory, yes – both. Danish is not compulsory, and I think it would be something more like “Snakke på dansk” not prata på danska in any case. Although I can’t say I can write nor speak Danish. Portuguese, Arabic, Turkish, Japanese and Mauri are amongst other languages that are not compulsory in Finnish schools. As it happens, just as with Danish, these are also not official languages of our country.

    When it comes to the teaching of our two official languages in schools there are two subjects:
    “Mother tongue” and “The other domestic language”.
    In Finnish-medium schools, Finnish is taught in the mother tongue classes and Swedish during lessons in “The other domestic language”. The opposite is the case in Swedish-medium schools. The only difference is that Swedish-medium schools start much earlier with the teaching of “The other domestic language” and devote massively more hours to it than Finnish-medium schools do.

    As you will note, often the internet discussion of the languages of Finland attracts hateful, rather unintelligent comments. C’est la vie is what we can say in yet another language that is not compulsory in the Finnish education system.

    As for the interesting hate directed towards Astrid Thors specifically, she is the government’s minister for migration. The entire government. IE she simply forwards the line towards immigration agreed to by all the parties that currently sit in the government – not just SFP’s. It is interesting and sad to note the increasingly hateful intolerance of all that is ‘different’, be that Swedish-speaking Finns or immigrants.

  • Pekka

    Jonas G: Right, it’s funny how some people seem to think that SFP runs this country. This party is blamed for the mentioned language and immigrant policies although the government is headed by Keskusta and Kokoomus. SFP can’t possibly enforce their own ideas without the acceptance of the bigger parties. Then again, maybe it’s all about conspiracy theories.

    I wouldn’t say that Finland was especially intolerant today. Perussuomalaiset is way softer than Sverigedemokraterna. The first has historical ties to a rural party whereas the latter has historical connections to national socialism. Distrust in immigration policies is apparent in all of Western Europe (think about France, Germany, Austria). Sometimes it is manifested through racism, sometimes through constructive criticism. Being critical towards completely free movement of people or taking refugees as a solution to the Third World problems doesn’t imply racism.

  • jr

    What has happened to Phil??! He hasn’t posted for a month :(

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    Haha, no X, strangely enough it is not. Gay is not a very common surname in either the Swedish or Finnish languages. However, thank you for illustrating my point regarding intolerance very nicely with your highly intelligent and insightful comments. Greetings of a similar nature also to Acid.

  • parle francais

    Every party supports the two official languages to be studied compulsorily in schools, so add French too.

  • Alco

    How about starting a thread about the Alko policy in Finland, maybe to show what kind of gallups say that everybody loves it, also especially the Tallinn visitors?

  • x

    Those Iltalehti gallups:
    Do Finns want Swedish as compulsory language? 60%Y 40%N
    Is the Alco institution efficient?? 66%y 34%n
    Do you want to buy wine from the kkk 60%n 40%y
    It’s better to buy wine from the Alco than from the market 65%y 11%n

  • pekka

    Phil
    Even if Swedish speaking finns are smart, some of them have difficulties to express themselves in Finnish. Therefore they want that all the Finnish speaking Finns (95 % of the population) should learn Swedish to be capable to give service to Swedish speakers on Swedish.

    It is ridiculous.

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    Haha Pekka, I am afraid that is not the reason. Finland has two national languages and we are from Finland as much as Finnish-speakers. I am sure Finnish-speakers would think it was pretty strange if they couldn’t get services in their mother tongue in their own country; well – we think the same!! Don’t forget it works both ways, a Finnish-speaking resident in Raseborg or Jakobstad is entitled to service in Finnish and does not need to use Swedish when carrying out his or her official business. And no one has forced the thousands of Finnish-speakers who have migrated from inner Finland to the south coast to learn Swedish despite it having been the majority language there and despite them having transformed many areas into Finnish-speaking areas with little regard for local traditions or culture. I wonder if the residents of Jyväskylä or Joensuu would be so understanding if all 290 000 Swedish-speaking Finns suddenly decided to move there? I wonder if most Finnish-speaking residents in places like Esbo, Kyrkslätt, Borgå, Sibbo etc even realise what a change to the local culture they have caused in only the last few decades? But, the other side of the story is almost never heard – and certainly never ever heard in the Finnish-language media.

  • pekka

    #81.
    Hahaa Jonas.
    If we assume that 5 % of the Finland’s population are speaking Swedish as a mother toungue, I estimate that 20 % oh them = 1 per cent of Finland’s population are not capable to express themselves in Finnish, it is ridiculous to force the majority of the citizens ( = 5 million people) to learn fluent Swedish.
    It would be cheaper to give interpreter service to these Swedish speakers (50000 people).

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    But that is not the only reason for why both official languages are compulsory in Finland’s schools .And in any case, just because I know Finnish, I expect to be served by state authorities in Swedish as that is my mother tongue and I come from Finland. I think it would be weird if I was not allowed to use my own language in my own country. I am sure that Finnish-speaking residents of e.g. Jakobstad who know Swedish likewise expect the municipal authorities there to serve them in Finnish.

  • A better person in general

    We as a minority are truly being harassed, friends of mine get beaten in broad daylight because of their mothertongue. We have a country full of morons especially the politics who just can´t seem to get into their teeny tiny heads that well swedish isn´t the worldlanguage finnish is waaaay down there. Knowing how to speak finnish wont get you anywhere. I survived in Denmark with my swedish so there you go I can live in Scandinavia which is more than any finnish person can say.

    And to talk about boats yepp I own a small boat which you can row in from Åland to Sweden…

    But as far as looks go… Finns carry ugrian genes which is more well not so western and SF´s have western genes that´s why we look hotter than the finns.

    Stereotyping is so much fun. Finns could relax and enjoy their lives instead of moaning about everything, we´ll never be a western country, get over it.

  • x

    In your countries there are Sami people…
    aaa scandal,
    ok, but now Sami language compulsory too.

  • Hank W.

    Yeah but Jonas G. you forget the Kasnäs-manifest. SFP has no voter base unless it expands. So it has taken the path like Labour did in the UK to get immigrants into the country to then vote for them.

    Its an evil plot say the TF’s, their tinfoil hats fluttering.

  • Nate

    Jonas G really is an asshole, why do you want people to give you reasons why they think you are an asshole? To reflect on them while you sleep?

  • tibor

    A Better Person in General says SF’s have Western genes which make them hotter. I concur, but as an ugrian with a Rik Svensk and SF branch of the family, I’ll still say that a little Mongol blood and genetics isn’t a bad thing. Ugrians make better warriors than SFs, regardless of Marski.

  • ignorant shit

    These are shameful article by someone who has had no interest to search such a delicate matter further, and decides to make insulting and derogatory comments when comparing two different cultures, in the context of finnish historical context. Comments like these are a reason why some americans have a bad name internationally.

    You’re not bringing up any taboo, only a borderline hateful generalizations. And since you obviously spent time in writing this article, you’re not even a douche but an ignoramus.

    Think about stuff before you write

  • troll feeder

    A better person and Tibor: get to the 20th century. Your “facts” about genetics come from the 19th century…

    I’m so bored with this unintellectual discussion.

  • tibor

    It’s 19th century okay why not? I’m fucking kidding asshole. But listen “troll feeder?” Do you understand that this is an internet blog, which is purely entertainment? Nobody has to come here and read Phil’s takes on Finns or life outside of USA. Any internet blogs should be taken as entertainmen, no matter how serious they purport themselves to be. In fact I’m glad he lives outside of USA as any American who experiences the outside can only help them, by bringing and sharing those experiences back to USA. If you take this American Phil’s blog seriously, then perhaps you should lighten up.

  • Finnishswedishamerican

    What can i say…you truly are an American.
    I have Finnish citizenship, Swedish maiden name, Grandfather from Åland and i live in the US.
    You are an American making fun of all these above. Ignorant stereotypic ballbusting American.

  • tibor

    Why do you live in USA if they are ignorant ballbusting Americans? That’s a rude categorization and generalization. Especially if you actually live there; unless what you mean is that you are born there, with Finnish citizenship?

  • random

    I thought this was hilarious!

  • Pelle Peloton

    Are you trying to mask your hate of Finnish people with humor, Phil? Well you aren’t funny – just mildly insulting and mostly lame. I dare you to write a similar article about American Blacks and Whites.

    By the way, nowadays Finnish speaking kids do better in school than their Swedish speaking peers. Example:
    “Swedish speaking students weaker in mathematics
    “http://www.aamulehti.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/193633.shtml”

    Swedes actually need have their own university quotas, just like Blacks in the States. Not just because Swedes are a minority, but because Finns on average do better in the entrance exams.

    The “more educated” myth may be true, but things are changing. Without these quotas, Finns would quickly take most of the leadership positions in the future.

  • fetto

    my first thought was “oh no you didn’t”, like cmon i’m finlandssvensk and that’s just offensive. Like yeah there are these stereotypes about us, but like there’s no stereotypes of Finns? Hah, does drunk, fat and lousy English skills ring a bell? And I know rich Finns and poor Swedish Finns. Stereotyping people won’t get you anywhere.
    And Handball doesn’t suck, you do. My handball team has two Swedish Finns and the rest of the team is just Finns.
    I don’t concider myself Swedish, I’m just as Finnish as the Finns who only speak Finnish. I just have advantages like speaking two languages and having easier with learning new languages.
    I don’t stereotype people like you seem to do, if a person says he’s not a Swedish Fin I don’t care.
    So seriously take your stereotyping opinions and shove them up yours!

  • …..

    I don’t know if anyone have mentioned it but, the people of Åland (Ålänningar) does not consider themselves “finlandssvenska”. After spending some time there I, as a Swedish-speaking finn from Helsinki, have noticed that we really doesn’t have anything else in common besides the language (of which we have great dialectical differences).

    As for the hillbillies in the northern parts of Finland who only speaks Swedish, they claim (THEY claim, not I claim) that they have more in common with the swedes across the Gulf of Bothnia than with the non-swedish speaking parts of Finland. Then if that is a good or a bad thing for them or for us, I couldn’t care less ;)

  • 4th generation american

    This is a funny, interesting blog. Some of you are way too serious about this stuff! I am a 4th generation American descendant of Swedish speaking Finns. I grew up in a small town near Lake Superior whose countryside is much like Finland (or so I have been told). Most of this heritage has died out with my grandparents (I am 53 y.o.), with the last one making it until 2002 and the age of 96. They were always proud of their Swede- Finn heritage and made several trips to Finland in the late 1960s and early 1970s to visit family. Our family came from the western maritime areas. There was some wealth in some parts of the family but mostly I think they were farmers. I have a painting of my grandfather’s church of his confirmation in my home- he was born in USA but had to return to Finland for his childhood since his parents died and no one was here to raise him. He returned to USA as a young man. He met my grandmother when he came back and being a Swede speaking Finn she taught him Emglish. They were really involved in the International Order of Runeberg here which was a major social support and community for many Swede- Finn and Finnish immigrants (with the church- for many years Swedish speaking)to America. People who came here were tremdous pioneers and risk takers to emigrate. Never heard a word from them about discrimination or cultural superiority but they always remembered their Swede- Finn heritage. Oh well, great memories.

  • AmericanVeteran

    Sounds like Finns and Swedes are wannabes. You talk down to the Finns. Your “sophistication” is a sham. I’m an American of Finnish descent (and German and English). Seems people who try the hardest to act important really aren’t. You put down country people, but say being homosexual is evolved or sophisticated. How’s that? Do you even know anything about biology and evolution? Being a farmer or a simple country person is no shame. Someone of character, virtue, effort and so on is of more value to this earth. I don’t find the Swedes so impressive. We’re all specks of dirt on this earth floating through space. Arrogance is ridiculous. We have states in the U.S. that dwarf Sweden and Finland, but there isn’t much bragging about how “great” we are compared to so-and-so… If you had any strength, you wouldn’t need to talk like fools. Living in an urban jungle, inside a box called a house or apartment is not much. The U.S. could bomb all of Scandinavia into a crater they’d never escape from, but I’ve never heard Americans talk about how “great” we are compared to everyone else. Maybe that’s why over here there’s more self-criticism over our supposed power… Because it’s actually true and something most want to be careful with. Well, our economy is going down and the rest of the so-called developed world will sink with us for the most part. But there are simple people who live in the hills here, and many other parts of the world, who will be surviving off the land as humans have for thousands of years. No need for subways, grocery stores, wireless phones and all that bullshit.
    FYI: I’m not an American that hasn’t been out of the U.S. borders. I’ve been around the whole globe. I’ve been a combat soldier and college student. My undergraduate degree is in Mathematics and my Masters is in Psychology. My work has been in Software Development and Mental Health.
    Europe and Scandanavia are small places with each place claiming some sort of identity. Not so different from the Middle East in your struggle for self-importance. The U.S. is the most diverse country and is really a land of 50 countries unified. We don’t need to understand Europe any more than Europe needs to understand a camel’s ass or the surface of the moon. Just isn’t relevant to the everyday life of most people because it’s so much vaster and less interconnected than Europe.
    Anyway, you people are funny. I’ve always been proud to be Finnish. But for the record, my great grandfather spoke not only Finnish and Swedish, but a total of six languages. When he moved to America, his Finnish wife followed later, they required all their children to speak English so they could prosper in their new land. Now, we have similar complaints from people whining that we need to accommodate Mexican Spanish speakers. Whatever! Money and politics drive it.
    One thing you nanny countries can’t understand, and less Americans are now as we become more socialistic, is the idea of self-reliance. Too many momma’s boys all wanting someone to take care of them. What a sad state for a human to live under. Not a free man, but a vassal of the state. Have you no identity beyond your group or language? What have you done personally?
    BTW: I know this is supposed to be “humor” but it’s so petty it’s pathetic. You need to find something useful to do with yourselves.

  • j

    These days the previously abundant problems about swedish language in finland have almost totally disappeared. This is because the swedish language has become meaningless and useless to us finns. Swedish language is no longer means for social or economic benefit.

    There are still some relics of the past such as compulsory swedish language education but I think that this will become a thing of the past in some years.

    Personally I have nothing against swedish speaking finns. But the fact is that you can live all your life in finland w/o realising that there is a swedish minority.

  • Michigan

    I am a third generation Swede-Finn in America. When my Swedish speaking relatives arrived here in the 1888, they were rejected by the Swedes from Sweden and my relatives,in turn, also rejected the Finnish speakers from their own country. Language differences are very important at times. My relatives were viewed as “uppity” by the Finns, and “less than” by the Sweden-Swedes.

  • j

    Michigan’s comments are quite relevant. It is good to note that us finns “own” large part of the 20 century industrial development and therefore also the rise of the standard of living to Swedish speaking finns many of whom seem to have had a skill of entrepreneurship.

    As late as in the 1950′s for instance in the town of Varkaus, in the middle of 100% finnish area, the main industrial company used to be Ahlström. And they of course had a club for the management etc. where the finnish speking finns were not allowed. In those days a young finnish engineer had to learn swedish in order to get ahead.

    However, this is not the case anymore. These days the traditional swedish speaking families have mostly sold their companies at the stock exchange or merged with other companies. Therefore the founding families are not in the management anymore. And today, the language of business in finland is finnish and not swedish. And now we finns feel that swedish is not important anymore and eg russian language seems more useful.

  • Lonestar

    “You’ll find most of them located on the southern and western coasts of Finland. They came over centuries ago from Sweden as part of the country’s crusade to spread Christianity and more importantly, expand Sweden’s borders. ”

    False, most of them trace their roots back much farther, the majority lived on the coast since it rose from the sea, only later did the swedish govt come and do all that, but there where plenty of swedes here before Sweden.

  • Lonestar

    Finns sure hate having to learn other languages, thats my overall impression from this blog. Strange so many finns speak english, which is related to the hated swedish.

  • English in Helsingfors

    And the swedish speaking finns invented moomin. In swedish btw, but it all got translated to non-comprehensible finnish.

  • Yes?

    Istn’t that guy who inventet Linux a swedish-speaking finn?

  • http://www.thoughts.com/raimo/case-sweden Raimo

    A school building was fenced off with barbed wire in Espoo, Finland in 1908 (see the picture in the link). Swedes fenced off school buildings with barbed wire, in order to ban children the access to a school.

    The Swedish government was responsible for the most iron ore the Nazis received. Kiruna-Gällivare ore fields in Northern Sweden were all important to Nazi Germany.

    These massive deliveries of iron ore and military facilities from Sweden to Nazi Germany lengthened World War II. Casualties of the war have been estimated at 20 million killed in Europe. How many of them died due to Sweden’s material support to Nazi Germany, is not known.

    http://www.thoughts.com/raimo/case-sweden

    http://www.thelocal.se/28470/20100819/
    “I know about Sweden genocidal tendencies toward Finland. I know about Finnish Winter War and I know about putative neutrality of Sweden (Just to remind Swedes, needs of Nazi military industry brought wealth to Sweden).

    I think that demands of Swedish minority of Finland are outrageous and arguments and insane. They are just symptoms of inherit Swedish racism toward Finland.”

    We have compulsory Swedish because Finland is not a democracy.

    The oddest thing for me as an immigrant from a ‘Western’ country to Finland is how Finland-Swedish speakers keep insisting on the fact that THEIR peculiar and odd dialect of Swedish somehow binds Finland not only to Scandinavia, but ALL of western civilization, as if Finnish by itself in Finland would automatically place Finland within the same group as Azerbaijian, Tajikistan or Uzbekistan. I challenge this ethno-centrist and -extremely- outdated view. The Finnish language is a bridge to other western countries like Estonia and Hungary, and Finnish is a Nordic, Scandinavian language. Finland-Swedes are only a bridge to a bygone era when the coast of modern Finland was colonized by Sweden.

    Finland-swedes are the most pampered minority on Earth. (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/25/international/europe/25finland.html) Millions of Euros a year in tax revenues go to propping up the archaic Finland-swedish language and culture. People that speak Finnish, whether they were born in Joensuu, Mogadishu, Phuket or Dallas such as myself are denied career advancement in the upper echelons of Finnish industry and government due to the fact that knowledge of Finnish is considered a “disadvantage” due to the fact that we would not be serving the minority and their language.

    Swedish should be removed as an official language in Finland and made a minority one (which in reality it is) like Saami. It should have the same status in Finland as Finnish does in Sweden. A municipality should be bilingual only when the minority language is spoken by 20 percent of the population (EU recommendations), not the ludicrous 6 percent or minimum 3000 speakers! This leads to ridiculous situations, such as in Vantaa, with nearly 200000 inhabitants, translating all government documentation into Finland-Swedish because of the 3000 (or 1,5 % of the population!) speak Finland-swedish.

  • Asd Le

     What did you mean by “jews”? Just curious, not implying anything.

  • Bangbang
  • prosch

    good subject. i will think about it.
    übersetzung deutsch finnisch

  • ConstantineCartman

    all I can understand from your articles is that you ARE the sole stereotype. You are american, you know nothing about the Europeans, you just make fun of everybody. Let me clarify something. The Europeans have different ancestries, culture, languages among them. They do not believe that other Europeans or from other continents are inferior or superior, they are just proud of their culture. I believe that it’s great to travel around a small continent like Europe and hear different languages and meet people with completely different mentality. It’s not like America, where English “rules” and you consider spanish speaking people inferior. The fact that in America there is no particular culture, but only behaviors, does not mean that that happens in Europe too. In America you cannot stand the diversity and you want that to happen all around the world by imposing your “culture” and mixing up yourselves with the European stuff.

  • http://namthaibinhduong.edu.vn du hoc uc

    Thanks for your information, nice post !

  • Jonathan Nieminen

    swedes farm dick and export it to sweden

  • mannen200

    arierna är en intelligentare ras än ett asiatiskt nomadfolk.

  • Mumsfilibabba

    See, the pure amount of replies to this post tells a whole lot about the subject at hand. At the same time it tells nothing, but anyway. Some feel the need to (quite needlessly) defend “finlandssvenskar”, others are part of the net mafia campaigning against whatever delusions they have about anything Swedish in Finland or swedish-speakers over all. 

    You know what really is taboo in Finland? Finnish-speakers who love Swedish. There are quite a few and they get a few words in here and there, but usually the net-mafia creates a tsunami of negative or nonsense replies so that the real discussion gets drowned. Good tactic though, seems to be working. To pound on the Swedish-speaking minority is a national sport online in Finland. 

    In reality though, the vast majority of the country doesn’t care since Swedish doesn’t have any impact (not positive or negative) in their lives. It just isn’t worth the fuzz some are working up around it (online…mainly). 

  • sven

    how true! proportionate to population swedish-speaking finns have made a far greater social and cultural contribution than finnish-speaking finns

  • http://www.webtriber.com/ Online Business Listings

    well, this
    is an act of good government to the people. I think upgrading the
    quality of the ship will give people a more comfortable life and many
    will rethink the move by train instead of flying.

  • Markcat

    I agree with you, however I don’t think it is fair to stereotype all Americans in the way you did.  There are many Americans, including myself who understand and embrace European culture.  What you are forgetting is that Phil is a comedian does most of this stuff “tongue in cheek”.  I think people take him way too seriously.

  • Duff78

    I do not know if this is so but it happens for other countries too. people from England are speaking english worst than peolple from other side of the world. Handyortung
    gratis

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