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20.3.2010

Estonia according to the Finns

Tags: Estonia,FI vs. Foreigners,Finns — Author: @ 4:01 pm

Finally! A country Finland can look down upon. While Norway looks down on Sweden, Sweden looks down on Finland, and Finland finally looks down on Estonia. (and Estonia looks down on, Latvia?) Humble Finland bashfully gazes at its own shoes when addressing countries of the world – but with their southerly neighbors, Finland stares at Estonia’s shoes.

If Finland’s borders supposedly look like a maiden, then Estonia clearly is a turd falling from her gown. When Finns think of Estonia they think: cheap alcohol, prostitution, illegal immigration, shifty workers, poverty, booze cruises, liberal business policies, drugs…oh wait, that’s a list of “My Favorite Things”. Ooops.

With only 80km’s between both capitals, the aquatic train tracks separate wealthier Finland from its younger, poorer brother. But Finland has more in common with Estonia than any other country: They both share a dark history with Russia. They both share the same common fucked up language family – Finnish is closer to Estonian than any other language.

Dating a Estonian girl is a step down in Finland’s class system. It’s not as bad as let’s say, dating an Asian girl, or God forbid, a Russian girl. It falls somewhere between English girls and Polish girls. (haha, ENGLAND!) And what’s it like for an Estonian guy to date a Finnish girl? I couldn’t tell you, it’s never happened.

I call Estonia’s capital, Tallinn, “the Disney World of Finland!” as it’s the Finns’ favorite tourist spot. Finns take a booze cruise to Tallinn to buy cheap liquor, get wasted, visit brothels, and cause amok amongst Tallinn’s beautiful Old Town. Finnish beer is exported to Estonia, just to be imported by the Finns at a cheaper price. And while in their drunken stupor, Finns get robbed, cheated, and beaten up – They retreat home calling Estonia, “dangerous and unsafe!”. Just like Disney World.

While Finns remains stagnant and reminisce of the good ol’ days, Estonia drudges forward. Finland’s days of whipping their little brother may be numbered. But until then, I’m off to Tallinn to get drunk with the boys at the Depeche Mode Bar! See yah later, sobriety!

  • Hank W.

    For west coast merkins, Tallinn is equivalent to Tijuana.

  • Hank W.

    For East Coast merkins, Tallinn is equal to… SouthCarolina you can buy firecrackers in hign forest fire season.

  • http://antyx.net Andrei Tuch

    Estonia’s superiority to Latvia is a matter of record, long-established and unassailable.

    >And what’s it like for an Estonian guy to date a Finnish girl?

    V
    e
    r
    y

    s
    l
    o
    w

  • Cyberg00se

    Of course Hank is a fucking expert on South Carolina. Regale us with facts not copied and pasted from Wikipedia about SC please.

  • Hank W.

    Actually, Goose, the road trip I made on the 95 from Ft.Lauderdale to New Jersey, the “totally fucking weird” thing was these tiny stripmalls just on the SC-NC border full of firecrackers. Just like going to ViiVoan to buy spices…

  • Andy Campbell

    According to Finland’s ‘class based marriage system’ who is on top so to speak?
    So is it like this in order of preference:
    1. Finnish
    2. Swedish (other Nordic)
    3. Southern European (lets say Spanish Italian)
    4. Northern European (French or English or German)
    5. European but ex Soviet Bloc (Polish, Hungarian, Czech)
    6. South American
    7. Ex Russian (Estonia, Latvia etc)
    8. African
    9. Middle Eastern
    10. Asian (not Japanese)

    And if the above were true would you say from a class point of view that it would be better to marry an unemployed Finn over a wealthy Asian? Or Perhaps a University educated Estonian over an intellectually challenged Norwegian? Or then from another perspective would it be better to marry a beautiful Asian or an ugly Swede? Or then what about marrying a kind and caring English person over a selfish Nordic? What about marrying a hard-working African over a lazy Italian?
    Hmm these taxonomies are supposed to make things easier.
    Comical shortcuts to the truth rarely get to the truth. Generalizations albeit comic ones never really match with personal experience. How kind and loving your parents were is arguably more of an important conditioning factor than a persons race or country. I wonder why this isn’t mentioned in statistics and comical jibes about race and national stereotypes. But really people don’t think about class they consider their own self-interests first and that extends to how they think about other countries too – the predominant emotion is hope.
    If we analyze it then countries can’t be seen. There isn’t anything that is the fundamental building block of a country. Look for Finland and tell me if you find it. There are just differences and distinctions that are picked-up on now and again. Nationality is a construct not founded on reason but on self-construed interest. It’s always been like this. The Finn hoping for fun in Estonia and defining Estonia on the basis of that hope. The American hoping for success in Finland and defining it based on whether that hope is well-founded or not etc. I wonder when we will move on from hope and teh defining of others and society through narrow self-interest?

  • x

    It was fun to read it, Phil. Thanks.

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    Thanks, x!

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    According to Finland’s ‘class based marriage system’ who is on top so to speak?

    Americans! duh!! :-D

  • Andy Campbell

    lol :-)

  • ross

    According to Spain class based marriage system who is on top? USA!

    Who is at bottom of the list? FINLAND!!!

  • Gagan

    Enjoyed the reading :D

  • http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com Prussian Blue

    Are you saying that Finns are racists? If so, I’m disappointed to learn that. I’ve always imagined Finns to be an enlightened people.

  • EU Civil Servant

    oh dear. You don’t know much about Finns..

  • Keijo

    you don’t “cause amok”, you “cause havoc” or “run amok”.

  • anon

    umm and what evidence is that list based on? :/

  • http://www.palun.blogspot.com giustino

    I’ve met some Finnish women who are married to Estonian guys. They look like Estonians, but then you ask them a question. And wait for the answer. And wait. And wait. (Still waiting). After living in Estonia awhile, I hate to say it, but Finns seem like some kind of giant mass of inbred cousins. It’s like they’re all from some backward Estonian village in the southeast that no one’s ever heard of, speaking some funky local dialect. And there’s more than 5 million of them! Imagine that.

  • http://www.palun.blogspot.com giustino

    Maybe Latvia gets looked down on from both sides. From the north, it’s as you described: The Swedes look down on the Finns, who look down on the Estonians, who look down on the Latvians. But down there, it could be that the Poles look down on the Lithuanians, who look down on the Latvians too. Fortunately, Latvia borders Belarus — every glance over that border is bound to be an esteem-building experience!

  • Estophile

    I think its deplorable the way most Finns are completely ignorant about Estonia and Estonians. I blame our schools for not re-enforcing and strengthening our “tribal” connection by telling us about it.

  • eurocentric

    19.: It’s not the purpose of schools to promote such ideologies. Yes, the national identitety is strongly built at school but I wouldn’t like the school to teach how you should relate to each foreign nation… Doesn’t that sound quite dangerous?

    The connection between us Finns and Estonians is mostly just like you mentioned, “tribal”: myths and stories about common ancestry – an ideology. In fact we have more in common with Swedes: common (factual) history, societal features, state model, literal connection, religious background, cuisine etc. Even the Finnish and Swedish languages are not so far away from each other as it superficially seems: the semantical (conceptual) basis is strongly shared after hundreds of years of interaction. In some areas we use more similar concepts with Swedes than with Estonians.

    There’s not even evidence that your average Finn would be genetically closer to Estonians than Swedes – that much about factual common ancestry. The documented history (starting around the 13th century) has been for us Finns very different from Estonians and our socities have developed in different directions.

  • Rebel

    giustino, well if we go by this marriage based class system, are you sure those women weren’t the ones who were unable to find a partner in Finland? ;-)

    From a more serious point of view, this whole post was strange. I know some older Finnish men (and why not women) who MIGHT think that way… but the majority of Finns? No way. Estonians are generally well-liked, the only down-side is that they’re over-represented in crime statistics.

  • http://www.palun.blogspot.com giustino

    “There’s not even evidence that your average Finn would be genetically closer to Estonians than Swedes – that much about factual common ancestry.”

    Actually, there is.

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0005472

    Swedes were actually closer to Germans than Finns.

    http://www.plosone.org/article/slideshow.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0005472&imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0005472.g002

  • eurocentric

    giustino: The study you cited is not very interesting. It uses only about 3000 samples from whole Europe, and from Finland only Helsinki and Kuusamo are presented. There any many studies like that with small numbers of samples from restricted areas which lack generality. What comes to “Swedishness”, the most “Swedish” area of Finland is the Western coast (Osthrobotnia, Satakunta with Pori and Rauma, Turku area etc.) absent from the cited study.

    There’s a recent much more extensive study by The Institute for Molecular Medicine Finland (FIMM) using 40 000 Finnish samples from many areas in Finland. According to a FIMM researcher Ripatti cited by Helsingin Sanomat, “the strongest influence in the Finnish genome comes from the west, via Sweden” and “genetically, the Swedes and Estonians are approximately equally close to the Finns”.

    Information on the findings:
    http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Study+Isolated+Finns+have+unique+genes/1135254757770
    http://www.fimm.fi/en/scientific_highlights/the_new_finnish_gene_atlas_places_finns_on_the_world-s_genetic_map/

  • http://idontknow Mareille

    OWNED giustino :P

  • Anonymous

    finns are all basically smelly ugly fuckin arse holes that want nerve gassing off,the twats!!!

  • The Swede

    Estonians are regarded as a very good and handsome people here in Sweden. Many famous “swedes” have estonian roots. Like Kristian Luuk, Thomas von Brömsen to name a couple. I know there are many estonians in Sweden and they melt in perfectly. Very good people.

  • liisa

    From having a finnish mother and english father and uncles and aunts from both Estonia, Russia and India, I have to say maybe to you these commits are fair, but from my family i am disappointed that as a foreigner leaving in finalnd you still, contribute to these old fashioned and frankly disappointing attitudes, no one in my family has been looked down upon or maybe you just know the wrong sort of people.

  • orly

    I thought its the finns that looks sweden down, we don’t care.

  • Mikkal

    I must say I’m rather shocked as a Finn that you’re making our country into a big stereotype and thinking that you know Finland and the Finnish way of thinking as well as Finns do themselves. If you looked around you any better, you’d notice that Finns like their southern neighbor the best among all the other neighbors. Yes, there are people in Finland who think the way you described but I would never say that that is the common way of thinking in Finland.

    I also need to add that the Estonian stereotype about Finns makes me equally sad. Just because some booze tourists act awfully does not mean that all the Finns are like that. I love Estonia and the Estonian language and I usually visit places like Haapsalu, Hiiumaa, Saaremaa, Tarto, etc so that I wouldn’t have to face things like drunken Finns and anti-Finnish attitudes. I’m just trying to enjoy my sunny day in Estonia.

  • Siru

    Actully most Western Finns are related to Swedes and Eastern Finns to Fenno-Ugric people.

    “An interesting comprehensive new article on Finnish Y-chromosome variation. The main finding is that the arrival of Finno-Ugric speakers (possessing haplogroup N3) was later followed by Scandinavian migrations mainly into western Finland, which reduced the frequency of N3 there, bringing especially haplogroup I1a. Thus, within Finland, western Finns are close to Swedes, and eastern Finns are close to their Finno-Ugric brethren. Interestingly, Finns seem to lack haplogroup R1b which is found among Germanic-speaking Scandinavians. Thus, the most probable sequence of events is the following:

    1. Movement of N3 into Finland
    2. Movement of I1a into western Finland
    3. Movement of R1b into Germanic Scandinavia”

    http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/04/y-chromosome-variation-of-finns.html

    (note that the genetic difference between Finns in Finland Proper in Southwestern Finland and in Kainuu area in Northeast are greater than the genetic difference between Swedes and Britons due to the dual origins of Finns)

    I see people trying to spread lies here in an effort to make Estonians look like close relatives. Fact is Estonians have mixed with other Baltic people over the centuries and seem to be genetically close to them.

    “The more than 25,000 blood samples collected already make it possible to conduct various background studies. For example, comparing the genetic data of Estonians with other European nations has revealed that Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles and some Russians are genetically much more similar to Estonians than the Finns with whom Estonians share a similar language.”

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/02/estonians-are-not-like-finns/

    (there are conflicting results regarding the genetic closeness of Eastern Finns and Estonians)

  • Siru

    I would also like to say this article gives wrong impression of Finns. Often those who can´t afford to go anywhere else, choose Tallinn as their destination. Going to Estonia is extremely cheap. But it is by no means the favorite destination of Finns. As a true holiday destinations Spain, Greece and Canary Islands are popular with Finns. Many also prefer Stockholm over Tallinn. And Thailand is getting increasingly popular.

  • Siru

    Giustino: as somebody already said only people from East (Kuusamo) and Helsinki were represented in that research. People in Kuusamo represent extreme East and they have an opposite genetic pattern compared to Southwestern Finns. And only people in Stockholm were presented in the Swedish sample. There is much more R1b in Stockholm area than in the rest of Sweden. R1b does not originate from Scandinavia but in Central Europe and it is far more rare in the rest of Sweden. Only 20% of them have it. But the frequency is greater in the South where Stockholm is. If they would´ve compared Southwestern and Western Finns to Eastern and Central Swedes, the result would´ve been different.

    But even the Kuusamo and Helsinki samples don´t suggest affinity between Estonians and Finns. If you look at the map you presented, you´ll see that Estonians are far more close to their Baltic people, Lithuanians and latvians and to Russians than they are to people in Kuusamo and Helsinki. So even this map proves your point wrong.

  • ohgod

    Based on my own experiences of living in Finland for over two decades (my whole life) I have to say that to most finns the estonians are nowhere near a turd. We consider Russia to be the ultimate giant fart of the beatiful maiden. The gas is slowly trying to consume her but for the last 6-7 decades we have managed to mostly halt its advance. Nobody knows how, since it’s a government top secret.

    Right after Russia comes Sweden and the swedish, the beautiful people of the west that brought civilization to Finland by chopping off heads and colonising the coast. According to a finnish legend their country was formed when the beautiful maiden vomited a long time ago.

    Estonia is considered the midget little brother that got caught up in the fart blast and only recently recovered after many decades of sniffing the poo. We generally feel sorry about that and wish only the best for estonians (the real ones, not the colonisers.:).

    But you’re an american and since you only recently discovered that the world outside the US actually exists it’s ok. Ignorance can always be cured. :)

  • Peku

    Estonian Estonians are in my point of view very fair and hardworking people.
    Russian Estonians are very different, of course. In heart every finn hope for Estonia only the best and are very pleased that we have a brother nation.

    Regarding to Swedes, old population without international experince and language thinks sweden is somekind a special. But this new generation looks swedes down. Yes they do, and reason for this is that they are learned that they are somekind of specialpeople in this globe because finns have beaten continiously the swedes and others in every parometers (pisa, welthy, quality of life and etc). But I can honestly say that finns don`t make a big number about these researches, the swedes are only exception beacause they get what they deserve.

  • amanda

    A skillfully constructed system of government allowed Finns to manage their affairs with the participation of all social groups (although there were some serious lapses in the interwar period). Checks and balances, built into a system of modified separation of powers, enabled the government to function democratically and protected the basic rights of all citizens. The 200-member parliament, the Eduskunta, elected by popular vote, was sovereign by virtue of its representing the Finnish people. An elected president wielded supreme executive power and determined foreign policy. Although not responsible politically to the Eduskunta, the president could carry out many of his functions only through a cabinet government, the Council of State, which was dependent upon the support of the Eduskunta. An independent judiciary, assisted by two legal officials with broad independent powers–the chancellor of justice and the parliamentary ombudsman–ensured that government institutions adhered to the law.

  • Dfdfer

    to all my Finnish friends, I love you guys. We are nordic people and we must stick together, i know our country is in a worse state than yours but I still consider every Finn to be like a brother to me. :)

  • Ole

    if only the blog was funny…

  • Efilnikufsesin

     Norway looks down on Sweden?! More like Sweden looks down on Norway! And we don’t look down on Finland, they’re nice. :)

  • Mari

     Haha giustino. My friends went to the movies in Tallinn, and they left because it was impossile to stop laughing at the estonian language. It really sounds hilarious to the Finnish ear. Like in a western ‘where is my horse’ ‘kus on mu hopo’….
    Estonians to us seem like people from the 50s, being dressed in their best etc.  But, old customs are nice on the other hand.

  • Stephan

    I’m a tourist from Croatia. I want to say that both this nations are very nice. But i prefer Estonia more. They have amazing atmosphere in country. Finland looks a bit sad and maybe even boring, I this it’s because of harder climate.

    Even the economy in Finland is higher I want to try to live in Estonia.

  • joosep

    to hell with u jerk! the people that robb and betray ur finnish tourists are the russianes brought in by stalin in ww2 , estonia could look down upon russia cause they are poor and fucked up , that s a reason nobody wanted to leave estonai after 1991 when indipendence was re-astablished . thank u subscribers befor eme for thése lovely comments towardes my homeland.

  • joospe

    i see ur point , but ur ignoring the sience that ur genetick mutaion is only shared by hungarians,finns and estonians. so wht u are basically is that u would rather support dominating swedeish rule rather than friendlier neighbout estonia. here is another fact for u 43.98 % of estonians can speak finnish , 0.98 % of swedish can speak finnish

  • europhobic

    Estonia and Finland shares a lot of history, not just the tribal connections.
    In
    the coastal fishing villages 150-200 years ago, the people spoke a language that could only be described as a dialect of Finnish as it didn’t really have much in common with modern day Estonian.
    Finland, just like Sweden isn’t as mono-cultural as it would first seem – western Finland does have a lot in common with Sweden, the southern coastal area however has more Baltic/Russian influences. Culture has always been spread through commercial routes (roads, waterways), so it’s not
    surprising.
    Would be simply ignorant or naive to think that two trading posts that were as close and had no linguistic barriers developed separately. Also remember, Tallinn was a relatively big town when Helsinki was just being established.

    I say this as an unpatriotic Estonian.

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