I’m going to have to disagree with you there. It’s the russians and them only who have the fine looking women. Or maybe the grass is greener…

Jokes aside, I think the stereotypical thinking you described is passing away with the elderly who lived through the “finlandization” period and spent their youth listening to war stories from their parents.

I don’t have anything against Russians, but here is a quick list of recent interactions between Russia and Finland. It would be odd if there were not any not-so-nice thoughts you call “xenophobic”.

1495–1497 Russo-Swedish War
1554–1557 Great Russian War
1590-1595 Russo-Swedish War
1700–1721 Great Northern War (Finland occupied by Russia)
1741–1743 Hats’ Russian War
1788–1790 Gustav III’s Russian War
1808–1809 Finnish War
1809-1917 Finland is under Russian rule
1939-1940 Winter War
1941-1944 Continuation War

Of course, there will not be any wars in Finland ever in the future, so that list is final and thinking otherwise is stupid.

There must be more humor aboutn the russians. It’s difficult, when negative stereotypes seem plausible to a large section of population, and the butt end of jokes are less well of than the finns. But there are differences, and any difference is an opportunity for a joke. Maybe we are afraid of seeming racists if making fun of russian civil society or habits.

And the russian minority in Finland is really not as visible as it is big. Whores and rich people visiting spas are really the most visible part of russians to most finns. I guess the russians just accommodate too too quickly.

And it is not just finns and the wars with the stereotypes. When I lived in Arhangelsk all the indians, peruvians and nigerians warned me that russians will always trick me and take advantage of my naivete. When going to sweden we don’t have to worry about being too naive, but russians are not the trusting fools that swedes are.

Russians are indeed very nice people, but it is not a xenophobic folly to be more cautious in russia than in sweden.

both share much of the same bodily features,
I must say, I totally agree. We have legs, they have legs. We have arms, they have arms. Our faces have ears attached, their faces have ears attached. Actually, we’re a lot more alike than I ever realised before reading this

Yeah, the difference is that Russians don’t work hard like “Sisu”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xuv9RVss_Y

Back at work, I share my room with a Russian colleague. There is a sort of low cubicle wall between our desks, which we call Mannerheim line. It seems that we also share an appetite for grotesque or black humour and bewilderment on things our wives do.

If some new piece of bureaucracy is introduced into his working life, he usually recognizes it as something that was tried in the Soviet Union also and it was bullshit already back then. If you ask him about fall of the Soviet Union, he’ll tell you that Ronald Reagan had nothing to do with it, but it was that idiot Gorbachev and earlier, the communist party throwing money at any third world country with three Negroes sitting in a tree, introducing themselves as a communist party of that country. Those are exactly his words not mine. I know most politically correct Finns would get a medical condition that can be loosely translated to English as “shit stroke” by listening to him a couple of minutes. Yet, this guy could go on for hours on fencing and classical literature or how even the quality publications in engineering are really dumbed-down these days.

To be honest, if us finns were scratched off the idea of the swedish-style rule of law and reformation and instead, subjected to the Mongol rule and later on, given the lavish resources of an empire, I doubt we would be any less unbearable to our neighbours as a state. But I believe there is one difference. Juri Gagarin was the first man in space. A russian collective farm worker takes a plow out of a nearly collapsing tool shed with chest full of pride of his country.

If the first man in space was Yrjö Karttunen a finn would take a coffee break from attending the roses at the yard of his rintamamiestalo -house and write an angry letter to the editor about how his neighbourhood is decaying and how many daycare centers would have been constructed with the government money put into that travesty in the sky.

As prez. Koivisto put it, idea of Russia is greatness and idea of Finland is survival.

The big difference between Russians and Finns is that the Finns (thank god) lack the visions of grandeur that the Russians always seem to have had. You know, mighty empire, bla, blaaa. Me sees rusty planes, sinking subs and sending millions of soldiers to the war front of some small nation. Meh.

I’ve always thought the idea of “grand identity” Antti rn writes about connects Russians, Americans, Indians, and Chinese. They have just different ways of expressing and hiding it in public.

European ex-imperialist nations, on the other hand, have mostly come to terms with the fact that their time of world domination has expired.

Finns have always had an identity of a colonial nation, and quite realistically so, despite of the fact of almost 100 years of nominal independence.

“Finns have always had an identity of a colonial nation”

Could you contemplate that a little. I don´t think I understood. How does that “colonial identity” show? I have always thought the exact opposite.

#2 You forgot the first peace agreement 1323 when the first “split” was done between what was to be Swedish-dominated and which Russian-dominated “Finland”.

The different Finnic tribes and the “superpowers” being the different Swedish kingdoms and Novgorod had been skisrmishing if not fighting over the backwoods since time immemorable…

#9 Having a bipolar attitude to foreigners; either being convinced everything done elsewhere is better and that we are uncivilized, or then the kneejerk reaction of telling the foreigners to piss off from trying to rule us (like Lalli did to the poor Bishop Henry)

#9 ref #11

Hank got it. It’s a strongly authoritarian attitude. We view ourselves and others alternatively as world conquerors or total losers. Even in a university the seriously good ideas are allowed to “gurus” and the rest of the are nobodies. If one presents an academic paper to a Finnish audience, the audience usually wants to know which “guru” has endorsed the idea before they even entertain accepting the idea. If the presenter answers: “Just follow the logic, you don’t need a guru here to decide for yourself”, the audience usually doesn’t follow.

What is supposed to be an academic discussion quite often reduce to stale broadcastings of somewhat non-related statements around the paper’s topic, not really forming a coherent discussion. And after the first broadcasted statements, the rest of the audience considers not the content and logic of the statements, but the authority ranking of the broadcasters. Statement from the highest authority figure seems to settle the case.

Finns we pride in being “practical” in our ways of solving problems. “Practical” often seems very similar to “no other guiding principles than turning the coat when applicable”. The applicable time is usually expected to be determined somewhere outside of our own personal or national sphere of influence.

In business firms often feel most at home when working at the ends of a supply chain. And individuals seek out either salaried positions in large bureaucratized organizations or solitude in a micro firm. Almost as if it were a sin to lead a life of self-determination without some form authoritarian relationship. To me this amounts to a colonial identity.

Sorry about the typos in above message, submitted it before the final edit.

Thanks to Mannerheim the Finns were saved from the Russian bear. Their fate is not like Estonia and it was good.

#12 Very interesting, especially the first part. The messenger instead of the message, the pointing finger instead of the pointed matter.

#14 When about “Estonians according to the Finns?”

Well, compared with my Estonian wife (with her “vana hea Rootsi aeg”) I’m a positive russophile. When Sweden plays Russia, I am absolutely cheering the Russians… Actually, I think that despite of the obvious historical problems, on human level many Finns are pretty openminded about individual Russians. Any sensible person is vary about Moscow’s geopolitical pretensions but I think it is widely acknowleged that good time is to be had with Russians. (And as regards Sweden after we get rid of the inferiority complex – and a large part of the younger generation already have – I think most people would admit that Sweden is actually pretty much like Finland, only better, well, apart from the sense of humour and proportion, and they do like awful pastel colours in their TV studios).

Finland was never under Russian rule. That would make even less sense than saying that Ahvenanmaa is under Finnish rule. If Finland had been under Russian rule (as opposed to being in name part of Russia), then:

-we would have been forced to speak Russian
-we would have had Russian currency
-Finnish companies, government and state institution would have had Russians on top positions
-we wouldn’t have had universal suffrage second in the world, nevermind parliament to begin with

#17 Well, the 2nd russification period starting from 1908 was going that way.

Hmm, maybe it’s because I’m Finnish-American, but I love Russians. I think their culture is fascinating and the people are interesting and witty.

Jesus, pick a stupid topic then try to crowdsource some comedy material.

Talk about hitting rock bottom.

More rock bottom than random anonymous insults on blogs?

I think Russia has a lot in common with the US. It’s a big, flashy place with lots of wealth and people, but with lots of dirt under the rugs and in the corners. Both have power elitists in government with hidden, unclear agendas. Both have huge arsenals of weapons of mass destruction.

Comparing Finland with Russia is like comparing the Cook Islands with New Zealand. It just doesn’t work.

Hopefully Finns will realise that every foreigner with dark hair is not Russian!

“22.I think Russia has a lot in common with the US. It’s a big, flashy place with lots of wealth and people”

Not really. There are more individuals with a lot of wealth in Russia (it is many times bigger country, after all) but I wouldn’t say that a big and flashy place with lots of wealth and people comes first into mind. It does have a lot of wealth and lots of people but its people aren’t that wealthy. The GDP in Finland is $34,800/capita and in Russia it is $15,100/capita. More importantly, the difference in income distribution between these two countries is massive, probably the biggest in the world. In Russia a few rich people own and earn alot and most of the ppl get nearly nothing. An unemployed person in Finland gets approx. $1.100/month of basic benefits (including housing and monetary allowance) + also medical insurance and free education (which are excluded of the previous sum). In Russia, a teacher earns approx. $400/month incl. everything.

Russians are our arch enemy, for both Finland and Sweden, russians are not liked here in Sweden. And I know and understand why finns hate them aswell. Russians are different and they should stay where they come from.

well looks like #17 is in denial.
and #25 is an asshole. Swedes love Russians, and viceversa, whereas Finns are just upset because of history. nothing more. maybe jealous.
however, here is the difference:
Russians are Europeans, and Finns are Asians who became Europeans.
Based on the language and history, Finns came over from central Asia and northern Russia, and lost their genetics due to Russian and Swedish presence.
Russians came over from Central Europe as Slavs (Poles were there, Czechs, Serbians, all the awesome Slavs), and were discovered by Swedes. Hence the connection.
finland just happened to be stuck between two European powers.

“Tallinn” has been eating all the wrong mushrooms I see. 0_o What do you have to take to get your head that messed up?

I did stumble upon this a few months late, but I have to say how the one hundred years under Russian rule was one of the best things that has happened to ‘Finland’.

If we look at the Swedish rule, Finland was a region serving two purposes, a source of population to draft for the Swedish wars and to collect taxes. I will not dwell on the wars, but considering the amount of the non-taxed Swedish nobility on the “main-land”, it allows us to make the rather cynical statement that the wealth and manors of Sweden were accumulated at the expense of the Finnish labour and soldiers. The taxes collected in Finland went to the Swedish crown, and were rather unlikely used for Finland’s benefit and improvement. Under the Russian rule, all of it all changed, the Finns could use the Finnish taxes for the benefit of Finland instead of a distant, far away Monarch. As an example, just a few years under the Russian rule, Finland had accumulated enough wealth from the taxation to start building the Saimaa Canal.

In addition, while the fact remains that both Finns and Russians have been stabbing each other with their forks and knives, both have gotten their blood mixed on the soil. There has been times of war, but there has also been times of peace when the two people have had normal human interaction; cultural, social and economical exchange accross the borders.

And we have to understand that considerable amount of the more vocal anti-Russian statements some of the Finns make, originate, from the 40′s war-time propaganda that has not yet been corrected. As an example, I doubt most Finns known that Stalin was not actually a Russian himself, but a Georgian despot ruling a “Soviet” Nation.

And if we compare the national mentalities, Finns do have a lot more in common with the Russians than with the Swedish. Both Finns and Russians are stereotypically somewhat melancholic, introverted, and, hardworking while enjoying dark humour. While the Swedish can be potrayed as being the embodiments of the following sentance; “Happy-Happy, Joy-Joy, Happy-Happy, Joy-Joy”.

This is quite obvious if we compare the “popular” music of these three nations, Swedish got their Ultra-Positive-Sunny-Pop-music, while the Finnish and Russian Pop-music compares to Swedish funeral hymns. (I am pulling a slight exaggeration to prove a point here.)

Anyhow, I would argue that because of these similarities, Russian emigrants have had an easier time to assimilate into the Finnish society because the different language and religion have remained as merely aesthetic differences.

Well look at Finland´s jails. 45% of foreign prisoners in Finnish jails are Russians and Estonians. The unemployment rate of Russians is high. It was 30% in 2004 and now during depression it must be higher. Russian immigrants are reluctant to learn Finnish and to adapt into Finnish society. It´s the same in Germany and Israel. The Russians that came here were supposed to be people of Inkeri, which are a separate ethnic group related to Finns. But all we got was a bunch of Russians many of whom came with forged passports. Many of the robberies you hear about on news are committed by either Estonians or Russians.

I live in the West where people according to several researches descend from Scandinavians who came here 2000 years ago, 2000 years after the Asians came (this is shown in Y chromosome haplotype variation of Finns). Here we feel much closer to Swedes than Russians. We have to remember than Finns fought in the Finnish war to be part of Sweden so they wouldn´t have to be part of Russia. If Finland were to be part of Sweden today, she would be fine. Same cannot be said if Finland was part of Russia. I can understand why many Finns hate Russia. The thought of being part of Russia and living in Russian culture is terrible for Finns who live in a country that is culturally and politically very much like Sweden and Norway.

Russia is sending authorities here when a Russian child is taken in custody in an attempt to intimidate Finns. They ban Finnish export products using excuses. Finns have legitimate reasons to feel threatened by Russia and to dislike them. I have to say I don´t appreciate foreigners trying to blame Finn for their attitude and not seeing the whole picture. With that said Somalians are the ones here who face racism and discrimination, not the Russians.

I don’t like Russians. And that’s cause they steel, lie and you can’t trust them. Word honesty means nothing to them. And believe me, I really have met more than one Russian.

Winter war i’m not Finnish but Finland fought amazing against Russia they beat Russia. Honestly Nazi Germany and Finland were a great team.

#30 O God, u had really bad experience with russians, but not all of them soo bad.

I’m not sure if anyone mentioned it, but you might be interested in http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulitikkuja_lainaamassa_(vuoden_1980_elokuva). I don’t know well it is known in finland, but it is popular comedy in russia.

I real pleased to find this internet site on bing, just what I was looking for : D likewise saved to favorites .high speed web proxy

I’m Russian Karelian.
I’m a little bit disappointed with this article.
I don’t think that it’s really right to write that all Russians are evil and that Finns hate them (us). I have friends in Finland and love this country, respect its culture and language.

I would suggest that finns learn their history and not from scholar textbooks. It something that called “prehistory” in modern books.
Read scandinavian sagas (did not mean swedish only).
Read in the end genetic reseach.

About #10 “The different Finnic tribes and the “superpowers” being the different Swedish kingdoms and Novgorod had been skisrmishing if not fighting over the backwoods since time immemorable…”

Where is you took this s_h_i_t?

Novgorod was ruled by finnic people for centures , the longest monarch dynasty Rurik is of finnic ancestor (look at wiki at least). Near novgorod in villages 30% of pupolation have finnish gaplogroup N1C1.

As for russia many aristacratic families in russia still have finnish gens N1C1, others (the most of them actually) have indians R1a (or as called slavic) . Anyway R1a come to this territory much later than finns.

I think most of the russians hate finns and vice versa, probably something to do with genetics =(((.

I wish I could correct my post, sorry for the mistakes!

I would agree with #35 (although I am not a Russian Karelian, I am a Russian Russian ) No doubt, Winter War and other military conflicts between SU and Finland in XX century created mental traumas on both sides. I would add that during Civil War (1918-1920) in Finland there were massacres of Russians not necessarily sympathetic with Communists, and even opposed to Communists, including several hundreds of Russian civilians in Vyborg/Viipuri. It is sad, however, that some people tend to ‘overcome’ that trauma with xenophobia. Any reasonable person would rather say with the author of the article ‘Two nations of people who normally would live side-by-side in peace and harmony in the frigid north, are pitted against each other thanks to a handful of lunatics… And let’s be honest, the Finns and Russians aren’t THAT much different’

As for me, I fell in love with Finland as soon as I saw your forests. Most Russians somehow don’t comprehend that forest is sacred in a way. I heard that Finns do comprehend it, and the state of your forests seemed to verify these rumors.

As for the Finnish mentality… I’ve found it quite appealing during my short visit to your country some years ago… As a result, I still keep missing Finland from time to time. You are nice people, essentially. Let’s do no harm to each other anymore.

to urals
I am doub you are russian-russian, according to you nick , you might be finish-finish, make genetic test first, it might help to open open your eyes.Then run out the hell .And yes, russian karelians, russian veps, russians from vologda region, ular, are not so different from finns. Totally they are around 5-7% of population.

Bullshit

12345

I am amazed at you people… “Finns hate Russians, Russians hate Finns, Finns hate Sweds, Finn hate Estonians”… Why generalize? In every nation on Earth there are good people and bad people. One can’t say that the whole nation is bad. Put your energy instead of hate into something productive – build a house, learn Chinese, write a song, cook a meal… and SMILE! You’ll feel much better.

we are millions, not one, two or even thousand you might have met, you stupid asshole!!!

tallin is right actually. check the history books if you do not trust the words

I dunno, I am Russian, married to an American and living in USA, in preparation for my moving the whole family to Finland…Too crazy?
Though, being brought up in St.Petersburg, I should admit that many things you say about Finnish are kind of true, I still do love the country itself: nature, saunas, winters. That kind of stuff.
And my American husband did fall in love with all that as well.
I mean, you think having a nice cottage in the woods on the lake where kids can run around and there are basically no people (Finnish or otherwise) is a bad idea? What are you doing there? C’mon, you do love something about Finland that keeps you there, isn’t it?

Finland is one of the most boring places to visit. Only shopping. That’s all I can say about it=]

We russians have “face and history” even our history is not very good to others. Be sure we don’t give a damn about it. But what is Finland? All I know that they want to be a Scandinavian country! But Sweden, Norway and Denmark (who are modern european countries) think defferently:)