Finland for Thought
             Politics, current events, culture - In Finland & United States

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31.12.2009

6 dead in shooting spree at Finnish shopping mall

Another random shooting in little Finland?! And another mass killing at a Helsinki area shopping mall?! Finland is known around the world for snow, Nokia, and now shooting sprees.

Do you still feel safe in Finland?? Of course you do, everyone is white, it must be safe. Ignorance is bliss.

But nevermind today’s attack, the shooter has a foreign name, so it’s not really a Finnish thing, it’s us foreigners.

UPDATE: It appears the shooter is the sixth dead, he appeared to have offed himself. Glad he did justice to his crimes, cause the Finnish courts would never have gave him justice, he’d be pardoned by the President aftter a few years, as is the custom.

UPDATE 2: Here’s an old interview with him…

A sad day. I feel terrible for all those involved. From Helsingin Sanomat…

Six people have been reported dead on Thursday morning in a shooting incident that took place at the Sello shopping mall in the Leppävaara district of Espoo.
Apparently a man in his early forties, whose identity is known to police, began shooting in the Prisma supermarket with a 9mm handgun at around 10 a.m. Police named the suspect as Ibrahim Shkupolli.

First reports indicated that three men and one woman were killed. A fifth victim was later found at a private apartment in Leppävaara, and is believed to be the gunman’s 42-year-old ex-girlfriend.
She was employed at the Prisma supermarket in Sello, and is thought to have been the primary target.
A restraining order had earlier been imposed on Shkupolli with regard to this woman.

The search continued for the gunman, and his body was eventually found a couple of hours later at an apartment in the Suvela district of Espoo. Indications are that he shot himself.
All of the victims at Sello were apparently members of the sales staff. One man was shot twice in the head. A woman was shot in the stomach and two other men were shot on a different floor of the mall complex, one of the largest in the Greater Helsinki area.
The male victims in the mall were born in 1969, 1975, and 1982. The woman was born in 1964.
No further details were given of other casualties.

The mall was emptied and police continued the search for the gunman in the shopping centre and the surrounding area, before extending the net to known addresses, where the man’s body was eventually discovered.
Prisma store staff and witnesses were taken to the public library on the premises.
The police held a press conference on the matter at 14:30, after a photograph of the suspect had been released to the media before the man was found dead.
Police had warned Shkupolli was armed and dangerous. He had previous convictions for firearms offences in 2004 and 2007.
Numerous police vehicles and ambulances attended the scene, and for some hours commuter trains were not stopping at Leppävaara station.

Police were not particularly forthcoming with details of the killings, or of whether others were hit by gunfire, but the impression given was that the primary target was the 42-year-old woman, and it is known that those killed in the shopping mall were her colleagues.
Whilst no specific reason has been given for why they were singled out by the gunman, the indications are that this horrible tragedy was not a “shooting-spree” killing of the kind that has made Finland internationally known in the past two years, following school massacres in Jokela and Kauhajoki by disaffected teenage pupils.
Nonetheless, it will inevitably reopen old wounds and will prompt further discussion on the large number of handguns owned in this country and on the tightening of restrictions on access to firearms.

  • JoensuunJenkki

    “Us foreigners”? This guy was an Albanian Kosovar. You’re an American. If you want to group yourself with him as a “foreigner” who is here to “enrich” the host culture, be my guest. I’ll pass.

    No Finn would ever confuse this scumbag with the people who come here to actually enrich this country in a very material sense.

  • Jaska

    “it’s us foreigners”

    So you voluntarely identify yourself in the same group with this murderer?

    This guy was convicted of at least four crimes in the last years. He had been threatening to kill the person(s), which he now indeed did kill. Why was this criminal not deported? Is it because Multiculture-lovers wanted to “enrich our culture” with the likes of him?

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    No Finn would ever confuse this scumbag with the people who come here to actually enrich this country in a very material sense.

    Albanians don’t come to enrich culture?

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    Is it because Multiculture-lovers wanted to “enrich our culture” with the likes of him?

    How long has he been in Finland? You just can’t be deporting people after they’ve been in the country for 10+ years. There home is Finland and they’re on their way towards citizenship.

  • JoensuunJenkki

    Albanians don’t come to enrich culture?

    In a word, no. Finland doesn’t need someone else’s culture. It’s an arrogant presumption that Finland is somehow culturally impoverished.

    If they come to enrich the country with hard work, that’s something different.

  • Jaska

    “How long has he been in Finland? You just can’t be deporting people after they’ve been in the country for 10+ years. There home is Finland and they’re on their way towards citizenship.”

    Anyone who isn’t a citizen can be deported, it doesn’t matter how long he has been living here. And this guy was not “on his way to citizenship”. He had a lenghty criminal record.

    What is wrong with you? Do you not understand that this man was criminal condemned on numerous crimes (violence and gun crimes) who had threatened to kill people, and who then did exactly what he had threatened to do? You really think Finland needs people like this?

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    Albanians don’t come to enrich culture?

    In a word, no. Finland doesn’t need someone else’s culture. It’s an arrogant presumption that Finland is somehow culturally impoverished.

    If they come to enrich the country with hard work, that’s something different.

    Yawwwnnn….that’s just typical nationalist, racist, moronic rhetoric.

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    What is wrong with you? Do you not understand that this man was criminal condemned on numerous crimes (violence and gun crimes) who had threatened to kill people, and who then did exactly what he had threatened to do? You really think Finland needs people like this?

    This guy has been here for many years, and as far as I’m concerned, he’s been Finnishized. Whether we should deport foreigners for minor crimes is a whole ‘nother story.

    The point is that Finland has a serious crime and gun problem, by sweeping this under the rug by calling him a bloody foreigner is just avoiding the issue. The last few shoot sprees were done by Finns, we can’t deport them unfortunately.

  • Jaska

    “This guy has been here for many years, and as far as I’m concerned, he’s been Finnishized.”

    So, if you take a donkey to a stable full of horses, the donkey transforms to a horse?

    “This guy has been here for many years, and as far as I’m concerned, he’s been Finnishized.”

    Assault and kill threats are minor crimes?

    “The point is that Finland has a serious crime and gun problem”

    So you think it’s “unfortunate” that Finns can’t be deported, but it’s terrible if a foreign criminal is deported?

    Apparently this guy used an illegal gun. So the laws against the possession of legal guns have nothing to do with this.

  • Zach

    You are right Phil. Many Finns now seem to forget that the previous shootings were committed by Finnish guys… Should we deport also all of the mentally unstable Finns to some other country?

    And to be honest, Finnish culture is still too homogenic culture. There is also a very strong tradition of violence in Finland. It´s still very hard to be a foreigner in Finland. Actually it´s very hard to be a openminded Finn in Finland as well.

  • Passerby

    The example of the donkey and the horse as foreigners and locals is quite biased if not racist…

    This end of the year will be celebrated with lot of racism because one foreign coward sh. committed a massacre.

    Interesting to know the weapon was illegally kept. Instea I wonder how once again they lacked in prevention.

  • Passerby

    Many husbands kill wife children and maybe themselves in Finland.
    But go ahead with your racism and intollerance.
    That’s what you’re seeding and the planet is still wide.

  • Jaska

    “And to be honest, Finnish culture is still too homogenic culture.”

    What is “too homogenic”? What is wrong with having a homogenic culture?

    “The example of the donkey and the horse as foreigners and locals is quite biased if not racist…”

    Why? You an put them the other way around as well. What’s wrong with donkeys?

    “Many husbands kill wife children and maybe themselves in Finland.”

    Oh yeah? How many? When was the last time such happened?

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    So, if you take a donkey to a stable full of horses, the donkey transforms to a horse?

    No, but if you live in Finland for many years you start to “become Finnish”. There’s no avoiding it.

    Assault and kill threats are minor crimes?

    Do he do jail time?

    Apparently this guy used an illegal gun. So the laws against the possession of legal guns have nothing to do with this.

    I’m willing to bet that Finland’s massive amount of guns, I believe they were 2nd or 3rd behind US & Yemen in guns per capita, attributed to him possessing a gun. It’s quite easy to get a gun when there’s shitloads of them around.

  • Hmm

    Precisely the point. He can live here 10+ years: still is not, nor will ever be, Finnish. Why? Because he has done something bad. That astronaut who had Finnish grandparents? The newspapers all called him Finnish. Even though he has never even been here. Why? Because it benefitted Finland.

    I am just waiting for the blaming of America to begin… Oh, and there was never any crime here before all those damn foreigners came in. Riiight.

  • Anonymous

    Wondering what Helsingin Sanomat thinks about people copying entire articles without permission? And not even having the decency of naming the source.

  • Jaska

    “Precisely the point. He can live here 10+ years: still is not, nor will ever be, Finnish.”

    Being Finnish or being a member of any other ethnic group is not determined on the basis of years you live in a country.

    “That astronaut who had Finnish grandparents? The newspapers all called him Finnish.”

    I think they mostly just wrote that he had Finnish roots.

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    I am just waiting for the blaming of America to begin… Oh, and there was never any crime here before all those damn foreigners came in. Riiight.

    It’s a well known fact that the Finnish Civil War was fought between the blacks and Muslims.

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    Wondering what Helsingin Sanomat thinks about people copying entire articles without permission? And not even having the decency of naming the source.

    Wondering if I give a shit.

  • http://deleted Hmm

    Exactly. How could someone with Finnish grandparents have more Finnish connections than someone who LIVED here?

  • Jaska

    “Exactly. How could someone with Finnish grandparents have more Finnish connections than someone who LIVED here?”

    Because his grandparents were ethnic Finns. Ibrahim did not have any connections to ethnic Finns, if you don’t count murdering his Finnish ex-girlfriend.

    Why do you defend a massmurderer?

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    Finns were once Russians, so let’s refer to all Finns as Russians. And I’m half Polish, half German, so please stop calling me a fucking American.

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    Naturally, any foreigner (non-Finnish citizen) can be deported and forbidden from entering the country. Even EU citizens and even other Nordic citizens can be forbidden from entering Finnish territory (although, this is hard to actually police within Schengen and esp. Nordic countries). For example, Sweden has a ban on Nikita Fouganthine / Juha Valjakkala (the Åmsele murderer) from entering Sweden. That’s the legal stuff out of the way. It’s irrelevant in this case anyway as the perpetrator is dead.

    But, I don’t think this guy committed this awful murders because of his Albanian nationality. If anything, the jealousy and then following actions were hallmarks of the bad side of Finnish (Finnish-speaking, male) behaviour. So, perhaps he had integrated too much for his own good in this tragic case.

    Finland does not have a major crime problem. It does, however, have a major gun problem. Now things have gone too far. Drastic action must be taken. Handguns should be completely forbidden. Only the police and military need them. They are not needed in hunting. Hunting weapon licence regulations must be tightened. Will this happen? I am sceptical. So long as we have the Centre party in government and holding the key post of prime minister, I fear that we will not see any real political leadership on this matter.

    A very sad event to end the new year. Let’s hope for a better 2010.

  • Jaska

    “Finns were once Russians, so let’s refer to all Finns as Russians.”

    Finns were never Russians.

  • Jaska

    “If anything, the jealousy and then following actions were hallmarks of the bad side of Finnish (Finnish-speaking, male) behaviour.”

    Are you racist toward Finns? The peoples of the Balkans massacred eachother in a massive violent scale in the 1990s and before that too. Why don’t you make any conclusions about that?

  • Cyberg00se

    “Wondering if I give a shit.” –

    And that’s why your blog is FAIL. Use your own words instead of plagiarizing, or at least learn how to site the frakking source. Were you absent the day taught how to write in school?
    Which makes this blog a complete piece of shit. I keep wondering if it’ll improve, and I come back and see that with every post, it just gets worse.

  • http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com Jonas G

    Are you racist toward Finns? The peoples of the Balkans massacred eachother in a massive violent scale in the 1990s and before that too. Why don’t you make any conclusions about that?
    I am not racist against myself, no. Read some Balkan history, the Albanians tended to be on the receiving end of things rather than dishing it out. Be it Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Italians, whoever – they were generally the oppressed not the attackers. But, that’s largely irrelevant here – because someone (in this case, me) makes a stereotypical generalisation about one group of people (in this case, Finns), it does not mean that this generalisation is something unique to the group it is being applied to.

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    Which makes this blog a complete piece of shit. I keep wondering if it’ll improve, and I come back and see that with every post, it just gets worse.

    LOL! Agreed.

  • Anonymous

    It’s nice to see how Finns will treat this case :)

  • JoensuunJenkki

    Yawwwnnn….that’s just typical nationalist, racist, moronic rhetoric.

    Fuck you Phil. Stick to what you know.

    First of all, learn Finnish. Then call me a moron.

    Second, I’m an American who’s been in this country for 16 years. My family are Finnish. You’re a Nokian who’s lived in the Helsinki belt for how long…?

    Let’s be honest. There are two kinds of foreigners in Finland. The first kind are those that come to work for Nokia. Like you. The other type are those that show up at the airport and get jobs telling the manager of the local Täyspotti that one of the lights on his outdoor sign as burnt out. They are two different breeds.

    If you want to include yourself with the latter, fine. Help yourself. But don’t throw around your cheap & easy liberal-guilt accusations and expect them to stick.

    Oh yeah and happy fucking new year Phil.

  • Anonymous

    I think its Phil’s standup comedy that drives people to shooting sprees.

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    I think its Phil’s standup comedy that drives people to shooting sprees.

    Hhahaahaaa. Funniest thing I’ve heard in 2010. Seriously.

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    There are two kinds of foreigners in Finland. The first kind are those that come to work for Nokia

    I came here for a woman, not Nokia.

  • sam tha ham

    So six people got shot, that is sad. And bad. But I’m not worried. I’m not concerned. I’m not in panic. I’m not crying for crisis support from SPR groups or church jerks. I don’t need them. Why? I tell you why.

    This guy killed his ex girlfriend. Happens all the time in Finland. The people killed in the store? Somehow they were involved in this war between the spouses. See, this guy did not go on a rampage, like the foreign press so eagerly reported. No fucking way. He picked and chose those victims. There were comments on the radio by the very customers in the store how this guy walked by them after shooting one guy and one woman and went on to kill two others. So he was not shooting blindly around. He went to kill some particular people and did it. That’s that.

    Was it wrong? Yes it was. Was it bad? Yes it was. Whose fault it was? The shooters. Yup, he did it on his own. He is guilty. Alone. Not his creed, color, culture, hair-do, realtions, finnish society, our violent history, finnish police, NGP, taxes, food or fuckin Joulupukki. This guy decided to kill these people and then checked out before cops could kill him, which they would have done if they’ve had the chance to do so.

    Yes, it is not nice when people get killed but it happens. People get killed everyday. By gunmen, by cars, by heart failures and by what ever way. Eventually we all be killed by death. Maybe I sound cold hearted person, which I am not, but why don’t you whiners grow up from you diapers and put the blame on the real culprit here: the shooter. Nasty shit for sure, but it is over and done with. The guy is dead.

    And in conclusion: as much as I am an almost fanatical supporter of our military, I see no reason for any civilian to own a hand gun, legal or illegal, big or small. The bullshit about shooting as a nice hobby is just bullshit. When I did some shooting with a 357 I did not try to hit a target, I imagined I was shooting somebody. Just like every fuck in that shooting club. And so do every one else who is shooting hand guns. Anybody that says they are target practising with a semi automatic hand gun with a 16 bullets clip is bullshitting. Use a bb gun for that, schmuck. Not a killer gun. Why don’t you? Because with an air pistol you can not kill anybody. Yup. I know that.

  • sam tha ham

    And as an after tought: there are about two million guns in Finland. If the average gun owner shoots a hunderd rounds during a year (very low estimate) and the price range for a single round is between 2€ all the way up to 30€, you do the math. And this is just for the cartridges. Nice business. And who are those guys running this business? Not communists, social democrats, hippies, yippies, punks, heavy metal headbangers, evil foreigners, little green men from Mars or fairies from Middle Earth. Yes, that is correct: they are typically kokoomus or keskusta guys. And who is our minister of internal affairs? Who are in the goverment? And what did they said after Jokela and Seinäjoki? Kuopio? Yes, more resources for preventive health care and mental support and blaa blaa blaa. And what has happened? Yes, correct: less patient places in institutions and more outside patients and on and on and on… Get the picture?

    And no, I am not a member of any political party or movement. I am a free thinker and lone wolf. Not a demagogue or follower of anything or anybody.

  • Anonymous

    #35. You have been always right, sam.
    The thing is that: this kind of shootings will never stop under the current situation, something has to be done: to ban all kind of guns, more social work.

  • Jaska

    “If anything, the jealousy and then following actions were hallmarks of the bad side of Finnish (Finnish-speaking, male) behaviour.”

    We know he targeted the staff of Prisma. We don’t know more. He might have killed any random store clerk in Prisma who he came across with because they were colleagues of his former girlfriend. I’d call that a rampage.

    “Not his creed, color, culture, hair-do, realtions, finnish society, our violent history, finnish police, NGP, taxes, food or fuckin Joulupukki.”

    The thing is that even before yesterday he was a criminal convicted of several crimes, including threatening to kill the woman he now then killed. The point is that he should have been deported years ago. Had he been deported, five people would still be alive.

    “I see no reason for any civilian to own a hand gun”

    That has nothing to do with this case. This murderer did not own a legal gun, never. His gun was illegal and he had previously been twice convicted of owning illegal guns/ammunitions. Gun legislation concerns legal guns. Illegal guns are already banned.

  • Jaska

    ^ The first quote is supposed to be following from ham in 34:

    “The people killed in the store? Somehow they were involved in this war between the spouses. See, this guy did not go on a rampage, like the foreign press so eagerly reported.”

  • mm

    This wouldn’t have never happened if finns would be able to use guns for self defense!

  • sam tha ham

    Guns, legal or illegal, kill people. I don’t give a fuck about the legality issue. I talk about guns in general. I see no reason for any civilian to own a hand gun. Hunting gear is ok. But a hand gun? Why?

    Yeah, if he had been deported 5 people might be alive, that is true. But the fucker was a fucker and that was the reason why he did the killings. Not because he was a foreigner. Maybe cops should have taken his treaths more seriously? I don’t know.

    I have been involved in a similar situation myself. A woman was running for her life from a violent guy who had been in jail for a killing and assorted violent crimes, so there was a real threat. How did I stop him? I told him that if he kills this woman, I will kill him. It worked maybe because in that case the culprit was a finnish guy. Maybe it was wrong, I do not know, but it worked.

    Where we should send our own criminals? Where we do deport them? I know couple of killers too. They walk among you now. They are out. Thing is: you don’t even know it when they stand next to you because they are just like you and me. Average looking guys going about their daily rutines. Where we should deport them? They don’t kill you, they don’t go on a rampage, they don’t rape and pillage and have horns and saber teeth. What we should do for them?

    About the gun laws. Lets make it illegal to own a hand gun in this country for any reason, other than being in military or police force. And let’s put a stiff sentence for those who happen to have a hand gun. Say ten years a pop. What would happen? Professional criminals would have less guns because it is not smart to go inside for so long time for a such a petty crime. When they would have less guns, idiots like this piece of shit woman killer Ibrahim would have less chances to even get one. In time it would have an effect.

    I happen to know few criminals. Some of them are good, some bad, but the myth is that they would kill anybody because they are who they are. Not true. And not true in this case. This shit head did not kill just randomly. He chose his victims. You say we don’t know why he killed these people. True, but he did not kill those who happened to be there beside him during or after the shootings, did he? He did not kill every Prisma worker on the first floor but went upstairs to kill two more. And that, by definition, makes it calm calculated killing. Not random or rampage.

    This talk about radom shootings and rampages is scaremongering. Come saturday I go to Sello. I visit all these fucking malls. I go to visit some kosovar friends of mine. Yes, I know some of these guys too. Surprise! But I know all kinds of people. I’m not scared any of them. I have had some, lets call them incidents, with foreigners in Finland, mostly with somalis, but I don’t see red when one or whole bunch of them walk towards me. I’m not scared of them alone or in a crowd. Some somalis are ok, some are arseholes, most I could not care less. Same thing with my fellow country men, my own flesh and blood. Some of them are good, some bad, but I don’t hate them or be affraid of them regardless. No need.

  • sam tha ham

    And better new year for everyone, regardless of opinions or what ever.

  • Anonymous

    #37 “We know he targeted the staff of Prisma. We don’t know more. He might have killed any random store clerk in Prisma who he came across with because they were colleagues of his former girlfriend. I’d call that a rampage.”

    Any child can conclude that was “regler les comptes” what he did, and he did not targeted the public, look at the incident time : 10:00 AM.

    “The thing is that even before yesterday he was a criminal convicted of several crimes, including threatening to kill the woman he now then killed. The point is that he should have been deported years ago. Had he been deported, five people would still be alive.”

    Since the first day he came to Finland, the authorities already known that he run away with his skin from the Serbian hell, like the other families, and he was suffering from this all the time, and even his friends and neighbours knew that. But he was left without treatment, that’s why his addiction to drugs was justified many times in front of the judge as a cure for his pains , and I think that’s normal because many Finns do that too.

    So don’t play the dumbest.

  • hfb

    I give Timo Soini a day, three tops, to wind up the damn dirty foreigner propaganda machine. Good to know a restraining order has about as much value in Finland as it does in the US…little to none. On the upside, Finland was leading the news on NPR this morning. Go Finland.

  • asshole

    What is the problem – the guy was caught with an illegal handgun in 2003. He got 50 day fines amounting to 300 euros!? I get that off a traffic camera flash! Deterrent for crime? Sheesh…

    Meanwhile in Singapore: ” The unlawful possession of any arm or ammunition could result in imprisonment and caning. Any person convicted of committing a crime with an arm could receive punishment which could result in the maximum penalty of imprisonment for life and caning.”

    In Finland – its a slap on the wrist – in Singapore its rattan on the arse.

  • asshole

    #41 Well those who can read the papers know now that the staff killed at Prisma was the ex’s new boyfriend and the others were the ex’s managers. So it wasn’t “random”.

    Don’t believe in third party heresay from a broke telephone as a fact.

    I’m actually surpriced of the coverage – the best information was off the Tampere based Aamulehti while the local papers and HS were thumb-in-arse.

  • Annonymous

    This guy has been in Finland for TWENTY years. I am pretty sure after such a long period, he had some connections (not familial) to Finland). I think the issue is not about immigration, but about the Finnish system in general. Why did a criminal have such easy access to a gun? Why did the system grant such leniency to him despite his repeat offending?

  • http://holocaustdenialvideos.com Joensuu

    Sad to hear this. Why doesn’t it happen in Switzerland? Doesn’t Switzerland also have a high rate of gun ownership?

  • Andy

    1. We should clearly differentiate between refugee migrants and professional migrants. The shouter was hardly the later. Finland should stop accepting refugees. Only professional migrants should be allowed. For instance on point based system like in Canada or Australia.

    2. About amount of weapons in the country. All say that this is for hunting. Well, I don’t think that PISTOL is used for hunting. All pistols used by civilians should be illegal. If you hunt – use rifle.

    3. If the guy was not a Finnish citizen he should have been sent to Kosovo after at least threatened to kill someone. If this is not possible according to the current Finnish legislation – it should be changed.

  • Annonymous

    You know what’s amazing? The fact that Finns seem to forget that the last TWO shooting sprees were committed by ETHNIC Finns, NOT foreigners, including the mall bombing before that. Now after this shooting, it seems that the past two shootings have been ignored and the fact that he’s a foreigner seems to explain everything. Yes, he probably should have been deported after his string of crimes, but blaming foreigners for this seems to be just a scapegoat and a typical Finnish thing to do since voila, Finns are known, at least here, for their racism and xenophobia.

  • Doctorwho

    What makes you think Finns have forgotten that the two last shooting sprees were committed by ethnic Finns??? I haven’t. You think it should be always mentioned that “hey by the way don’t forget the last shootings committed by Finns”?? Those have nothing to do with this indicident, except for that they all happened in Finland. I haven’t seen or read any general blaming of foreigners for this incident. PS. If I were a smartass I could say by looking the statistics foreigners really do increase the killing rates as foreigners in Finland count only for 2%, therefore only 1/50 killing should be commmited by a non-Finn.

  • Hank W.

    The three previous instances were made by young people; the shootings done with legal guns. Measures were taken. This case is a small-time thug in his 40′s with an illegal gun. The issues to be addressed are totally different. Him being a foreigner plays a part of the equation, but the legal system showed its flaws.

    I guess “Finns are doing it too” is a good excuse for being a welfare bum tho.

  • Jaska

    41 wrote: “Since the first day he came to Finland, the authorities already known that he run away with his skin from the Serbian hell, like the other families, and he was suffering from this all the time, and even his friends and neighbours knew that. But he was left without treatment, that’s why his addiction to drugs was justified many times in front of the judge as a cure for his pains , and I think that’s normal because many Finns do that too.”

    Boo, hoo, let’s all cry about the “sufferings” of a mass murderer? This murderer claimed to have escaped violence or something like that in Kosovo and what does he do in Finland? Assaults people, threatens people, murders people. Five people would still live, had he been deported, as he should have been.

  • sam tha ham

    Jaska, it was 42, not me. I don’t cry for no one, except my daughter.

  • http://deleted Hmm

    The worst thing about a “foreigner” committing this crime is that it allows all the nutcases to crawl out from whatever rock they are currently living under and spew hate about how foreigners are ruining Finland, rather than looking at the actual issues: domestic violence, likely mental illness, and how illegal guns make their way into Finland in the first place.

  • Anonymous

    #53 :)

  • Passerby

    #53 That’s very realistic, although the worst thing remains committing the violent crime and such criminals should be sent away or to cure.

  • Antti rn

    What was this guy doing here in the first place. They did not grant him citizenship due to his criminal activities, yet still he was allowed to hang around. I have noticed on net debates lately, that various proponents of multiculturalism attribute the success of United States to being the most multicultural society in the world. Well, does United States, the leading multicultural society, allow people with no prospects of citizenship to loiter around indefinitely, committing crimes?

    The problem is that our flower-hatted aunties want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to have the nordic liberal penal code and import people, who have got to used world’s best 11th century criminal justice back home. Now this guy is Albanian from Kosovo. What I have heard about that corner of earth is that the concept of vendetta is not totally foreign to them. Would this guy go to nice little shooting spree, knowing that the brothers, fathers and uncles of the victims would be after his family, maybe even generations later? Ah…wait, I have the bloody Helsingin Sanomat here telling that this poor guy was just exposed to the Finnish culture of violence and that made him do it. OK, no problem then. Carry on.

  • Dave the Revelator

    This is a domestic violence incident, not an international scandal – however horrific it may have been.

    The only difference between this and other “domestic” violence in Finland is the public nature of the attack and it’s sheer audacity, and that the man had a foreign name.

    Domestic violence in Finland is all too common already – long before foreigners arrived.

  • born there

    here we go with the fat knee jerk reaction…MORE GUN LAWS. Stupid is as stupid does.
    Oh yeh also, put trackers on the legs of those that have a restraining order. again..what a dumb ass comment by that knuckle head brax.

    Stll after all these violent acts they blame the tool. ahh well,one day they will figure it out and blame the criminal vs. the political correct thing to do is..BLAME the GUNS. I blame humans for making humans that shoot the humans. hahahaha, oh yeh, that will fix it all. abortions till we abort ourselves out of the planet.

    Stupid is as stupid does. ask the justice minister.

  • born there

    p.s..happy new year! lighting the fireworks was the high light in -17 degree hell…hahahaha

    sad to say with all this shooting crap, i still had a great new year and will continue to do so… Oh a tree fell in africa! what, do new years, i think not. i must morn..screw that…live cause life is short peeps…HAPPY NEW YEARRRRRRR

  • born there

    39. gun for self defense ? wow whata new concept. If some one would have shot this scum, the self defense person would be killed first by the press.

    I am all for guns for self defense. may be just may be, 5 people would still have been alive if a citizen would have had a gun and shot him.

    Guns for self defense. what a new concept?

    why do cops have guns? and not flowers. i say take the guns away from the cops. and give them winter gloves.

    If bad guys would not have guns, do cops still need guns?
    so if bad guys have guns, shouldnt the first people to be shot (us) have also guns ? hmm new concept.

    again..this is ganna be a great new year..also its bloody hot global warming isent it…global warming another bullshit.

  • RegularGuy

    Well Phil, you really had me laughing with your “wondering if I give a shit” response. CLASSIC!

    As we say back home “you a rudebwoy. Yuh no take no backchat mon!”

  • http://www.mojofat.com/ al

    “Well, does United States, the leading multicultural society, allow people with no prospects of citizenship to loiter around indefinitely, committing crimes?”

    Yeah..that’s exactly what happens here. I live in San Diego, CA and believe me when I tell you that a significant percentage of the population in southern California is literally hanging around without any legal reason to be here, nor any on the horizon. It’s not >50% or anything, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see it around ~10% or just under.

    BTW, I’m applying to grad school in Helsinki (amongst other places). As an american reading this site, my impression is that Finland is a rather closed society…is this accurate or not? I want to pick a school in a country where I can really dive in and absorb the local culture, I’m not trying to export my own. But I’ve also traveled enough to have experienced anti-americanism and I really have no motivation to engage in becoming the defacto defender of american foreign policy (of which I had zero influence on). On the whole, is Finland a good place for an open-minded american to live and make friends?

    Thanks,

  • http://car-reviews.ru/ car-reviews.ru

    Why is it that humans can move their eyes in opposite directions toward the nose, but not away from the nose?

  • Out there.

    “On the whole, is Finland a good place for an open-minded american to live and make friends? ”

    Easier to make friends than in Japan but harder than in Holland. Speaking the language is a must (eventually). (I am Finnish expat living in faraway country). Finns are culturally half Asian, half Europeans and extra half something weird :)

    The deeper you go into the whatthefucknameisthisfrigginville (maakunnat) you go, the harder it is to fit in. Helsinki, Tampere, Turku, Oulu are easier, many foreigners already there.

  • Jaska

    “Domestic violence in Finland is all too common already”

    A Finn would never have killed four innocent people besides the ex-girlfriend in a domestic violence incident. That combined with the shreds of information we’re getting about the way this bastard killed the woman means that this is a very non-Finnish crime. Indeed, the word vendetta comes to my mind. And that belongs to some entirely different cultures than Finland’s.

  • Anonymous

    I suppose in “the shreds of information” you may be referring to the allegation that he took her eyes out. This does not square with the police statement that no other violence was perpetrated on the first victim before or after death. Whilst the police may have their reasons for saying this, at least until such time as it is confirmed, I think we should be a little careful with the idea of this as a ritual vendetta-style killing.
    On the other hand, I concur that this is not particularly “Finnish”. The Finnish way would have been to blow away the wife, kids, and family Alsatian dog before going behind the sauna to eat the rifle.
    The observation of “innocence” in your post also presupposes that you know the four persons killed in the store did not have any connection with the circumstances leading to the incident – this is a stretch. All current sources point to a direct link between the killer and those he chose to terminate, and the evidence suggests he had no interest whatsoever in taking out any of the customers in the store at the time.

  • Jaska

    “All current sources point to a direct link between the killer and those he chose to terminate”

    So what are you saying – that makes those murdered NOT innocent? The link is that they were his ex-girlfriends colleagues.

    “The Finnish way would have been to blow away the wife, kids, and family Alsatian dog before going behind the sauna to eat the rifle.”

    When is the last time that has happened?

  • passerby

    I don’t say “Finnish way” but in the last times already two filthy idiots committed two mass murders in two schools and that’s more than in all the Europe together.

    Also in Finland nif not early every year some “man” kills a woman and tries to suicide.

  • passerby
  • passerby

    #68 I mean: in Finland every year a man kills a woman.
    Maybe every month.

  • http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/newblog/ Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho

    The president no longer routinely pardons lifetime prisoners. There is now a a process for their release, where the decision rests with the Apellate Court in Helsinki, first available after 12 years of prison time.

    (In any case, 12–15 years is not “a few” years.)

  • Anonymous

    Jaska: Try this one on for size. If it fits, wear it.

    http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Family+of+four+die+in+murder-suicide+Oulu+neighbourhood+in+shock/1135240383196

    P.S. I don’t think they had a dog.

  • Anonymous

    Jaska: You might find this interesting, too…

    http://acta.uta.fi/english/teos.php?id=10735

  • J.J

    Murder-suicides are statistically extremely rare in all european countries including Finland. Sensationalist tabloids and other worthless sources want you to believe otherwise, but fortunately they are wrong.

  • Anonymous

    74: True enough, but…

    One starting point of the study has been to view these acts as gendered and sexualised violence. This means that both the gender of the participants and the gendered meanings attached to the acts are considered. The perpetrator is often male and the victim is often his (former) female partner. Therefore the violence relates to cultural conceptions of the heterosexual relationship. The next most common type of murder-suicide is that the perpetrator kills his/her children. In this context the meanings of violence relate to conceptions about parenthood and family that are also thoroughly gendered. The third common type is cases where a man kills both his wife and children. Even though in Finland only about 7 % of homicides lead to the perpetrator’s suicide, when the victim is the perpetrator’s (ex) female partner or his/her child, 25 % of the cases are murder-suicides.

  • J.J

    75: A direct quote from the same source:

    “Lastly, there is the question whether Finland is different compared to other countries in the occurrence of murder-suicides. According to statistics and earlier research, murder-suicide is not typically a Finnish phenomenon, but Finnishness is used rather as a cultural resource when murder-suicides are explained and narrated.”

    Murder-suicides are still statistically extremely rare in nearly all countries including Finland, and are not a “typical way” of any specific country.

  • Passerby

    So “rare” that they happen almost weekly, and in Finland there are about five millions people

  • Jaska

    “So “rare” that they happen almost weekly, and in Finland there are about five millions people”

    Individual murde-suicides happen all the time in every country of the world. Those of the larger scale are very rare.

  • Jaska

    “Jaska: Try this one on for size. If it fits, wear it.”

    That was years ago, wasn’t it? Ergo, it is very rare, and not a “Finnish phenomenon”.

  • Dave the Revelator

    Jaska your incessant denial is hilarious in a terrifying kind of way.

    Your statements are bizarre and not connected to reality.

    Domestic violence is a huge problem in Finland. One in five murders in Finland is committed by a spouse, boyfriend, or ex-bf and the victim is usually female.

  • Dave the Revelator

    Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho said:”(In any case, 12–15 years is not “a few” years.)”

    No, but neither is death. I have not heard of any other country outside of the Nordic countries with such lenient laws on murder and rape.

    You can get more time dealing drugs here than you can killing someone.

    I’m not suggesting that extreme sentences seem to deter crime (see US of A) but you’ll have to admit there are less consequences for the big crimes here.

    That being said, as an American it is shocking to see sentences appealed and increased by higher courts after a verdict and sentence has already been decided — while people are already sitting in prison serving time.

  • sam tha ham

    Just to comment this punishment thing: in Finland if and when you get sentenced for life, you can get out only by pardon. It really is a life sentence. Unfortunately all those whackos get pardons. Friend of mine was in prison for 15 years and for no murder sentences nor anything else. One guy was in prison for more than 20 years beacause he escaped and got more time each time. So it is kind of funny that ypu get out sooner from a life sentence than if you get time from multiple crimes etc. And the funniest part: the more dangerous and unpredictable, more lenient the court will be, more understanding you get and so on. That is fuckin crazy.

    The real problem is that for some fucking reason those guys, like that fuckin nut in Imatra who killed the girl years ago, get light sentences from the get go. In Imatra case, which was a murder pure and simple, prosecutor was going for a conviction from a manslaughter, which carries much less weight and years. And that guy is out already because of this.

    In many cases these nuts and crazies get much easier time than hard core criminals. And yet, which are more dangerous to you? No gangster will ever kill you by accident but these nutjobs will, if you happen to be around. Unless you are directly involved in criminal activities, ypu got nothing to be affraid of real pros. But these mental patients (Like Pekka Eric was), junkies, nut jobs, honor killers, these guys… Huh.

    And once again: I just don’t understand why a civilian should have a hand gun. Less guns, less shootings. Simple fact. Oh yeah, criminals will have guns and we should be able to defend ourselves against them. Really? And who of you would have shot this Sello shooter down? I bet most of you would have been crouching and running just like anybody else, and if you would have been shooting, there would’ve been few more casualities. You know, he’s shooting back and you are shooting him, bullets flying around etc.

    Or are you saying that you would have dropped this guy dead on his tracks with one shot? If you are, then you prove why people have hand guns and why they train with them: to shoot other people. Just like little Matti, Pekka Eric and Ibrahim did.

  • Jaska

    “Domestic violence is a huge problem in Finland.”

    Immigrant women have a twice larger risk of dying in domestic violence than Finnish women:
    http://www.iltalehti.fi/espoontragedia/2009123110862671_es.shtml

    And again, this massmurder has nothing to do with Finnish culture. If some culture is involved, it must logically be the Kosovan culture, as the murderer was Kosovan.

  • Passerby

    Last two lines of the link: 1/3 of the killers of these foreign women are Finns, so they kill more than even the muslims.

    That mass murder was made by a foreign guy, but other bigger mass-murders (the victims were mostly women) were made by two Finns.

  • Passerby

    Those killers are less worth than a sh-t.

  • Dave the Revelator

    Jaska said: “And again, this massmurder has nothing to do with Finnish culture.”

    Despite living here for nearly half his life; 20 years!

    Nothing at all… Nothing to see here. This is not a Finnish problem. Move along.

  • Hank W.

    And “culture” hasn’t anything to do with it? Old norse and icelanders and Finns used to have a blood feud… meanwhile in modern Albania gjakmarrja:
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3216606.ece
    Proves Roger Boyle is illiterate.

  • Dave the Revelator

    There is no honor in suicide in most societies. If this was some sort of “blood feud” as you suggest, then why would he kill himself?

    Doesn’t add up.

    The suicide at the end sounds more like a really, really unpleasant murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-suicide.

  • Dave the Revelator

    Roger Boyle may have some problems with his history and filling the news hole, but what he said has a grain of truth to it – why bring refugees here in the first place if you’re not going to integrate them fully, and make sure they have the same access to mental health as regular Finns – especially when they come from war zones.

    That being said, all the politicians do these days is pare down those resources for everyone anyway.

    It’s dumb to blame this on anyone but this dude. I’m not gonna be dragged into some neo-nazi argument with wackos like Jaska… at least not anymore… at least tonight.

  • Anonymous

    Jaska ought to read up on the Shkupolli family history, and on what went down in 1995 in Kajaani.

    http://www.kainuunsanomat.fi/cs/Satellite/Kainuu/1194633218172/artikkeli/shkupollin+asuessa+kajaanissa+maanmies+tapettiin+mustasukkaisuus-+tragediassa.html

    Oops. Now how did THAT happen?

  • Anonymous

    Foreigner kills 5 Finns, and this poor Phil sounds somehow happy?

  • Jaska

    “That mass murder was made by a foreign guy, but other bigger mass-murders (the victims were mostly women) were made by two Finns.”

    Three mass shootings in the few years, two commited by Finns, one by foreigner. So according to the statistics foreigners commit 33 % of Finland’s mass shootings, althought constituting only a few percent of the population!

    “Despite living here for nearly half his life; 20 years!”

    Obviously he did not integrate.

    “If this was some sort of “blood feud” as you suggest, then why would he kill himself?”

    Because otherwise he would have been caught by the police.

    “I’m not gonna be dragged into some neo-nazi argument with wackos like Jaska”

    Nazi-card, you lose.

  • Jaska

    “It has been estimated that over 10 000 people have been killed in Albania as a result of vendettas.”
    http://takkirauta.blogspot.com/2010/01/gjakmarrja-albanialaiseen-tapaan.html

    So that’s the culture this man was coming from, not the Finnish culture.

    “Jaska ought to read up on the Shkupolli family history”

    Let’s see:

    “His wife was subdued.”
    http://www.kainuunsanomat.fi/cs/Satellite/Kainuu/1194633218172/artikkeli/shkupollin+asuessa+kajaanissa+maanmies+tapettiin+mustasukkaisuus-+tragediassa.html

    “The man (Shkupolli) dropped out of the Finnish language course and announced that he was going to the Kosovo Liberation Army.”
    http://www.kainuunsanomat.fi/cs/Satellite/Kainuu/1194633218172/artikkeli/shkupollin+asuessa+kajaanissa+maanmies+tapettiin+mustasukkaisuus-+tragediassa.html

    “The man felt that he owned the woman like a car”
    (Today’s Helsingin Sanomat, page A7)

    Now what culture does all that resemble? Certainly not the Finnish culture.

  • http://takkirauta.blogspot.com Ironmistress

    It appears these murders were products of Albanian tradition called gjakmarrja – blood feud.

    The woman had left Shkupolli and by doing so, transgressed the Albanian norm that man is the head of the family and woman his personal slave. Shkupolli attempted to return her back by harassing and persecuting her. She answered by arranging him a restraining order.

    Shkupolli’s honour was insulted. He was seen in the eyes of his society as a non-man, a man who cannot control what is his own. His only choice was to execute the woman. The laws of gjakmarrja – the Kanun – demanded it.

    So he executed the woman – in the traditional Balkan Mafia way, by knife but not stabbing. But that was not enough. He had to also slay those men who had aided and helped the woman. Four men had to be killed because they had sided the woman.

    But something went wrong. A saleslady in the mall tried to prevent Shkupolli from killing the men. Shkupolli shot her. By doing so, he had violated the Kanun. He had now drawn blood feud over the woman’s family. By doing so, the only way he could forfeit it was killing himself.

    In the end Shkupolli shot himself. By doing so he wiped out his own dishonour of killing the innocent woman at the mall and terminating the blood feud on her family and children.

    Shkupolli left three underage children. If the rules of the gjakmarrja are to be played to the bitter end, the male relatives of those murdered men have the obligation to slay Shkupolli’s children and put end to his family line.

    That is how the blood feud works in Albania.

  • http://takkirauta.blogspot.com Ironmistress

    Let’s say that if the contribution of the enrichment of the Finnish culture of the Kosovars is gjakmarrja – blood feud – we can do with a little poorer culture.

    Blood feud is a thing which really should belong in the trashbin of the history. Yet more Albanian men get killed annually because of blood feud than women in Pakistan because of honorary murders.

  • Dave the Revelator

    “Nazi-card, you lose.” – Comment by Jaska

    Why? Because I am not a card-carrying one like you?

    We can sit here all week “discussing” this, but you and I both know that it is just as ridiculous to blame this on his ethnicity as it is to blame it on his geography.

    The guy was clearly not well in the brain and for you to claim otherwise (that he was somehow groomed for this by his refugee-status genetics or whatever it is you’re trying to prove) is utterly silly and only diminishes any other arguments “Jaska” has to say about anything in general.

    Either change your username or change your opinion, because neither will fly for much longer here if they ever did.

  • another anon.

    #92.Three mass shootings in the few years, two commited by Finns, one by foreigner. So according to the statistics foreigners commit 33 % of Finland’s mass shootings, althought constituting only a few percent of the population!

    That’s not the right mathematical way how to regress this statistic, it’s a false a statement. Actually I found out many Finns who claim this same argument(1/5 murderer is foreign so 20 % …) . Halla -Aho has left some good students out there, who just copy whatever they could find in his blog. So go study some statistics before claiming anything ridiculous.

    “I’m not gonna be dragged into some neo-nazi argument with wackos like Jaska”

    I could better consider him a Mongolian rather than neo nazi. a neo-nazi loves Albanian :)

  • Passerby

    Jaska, we’re wondering if you are a nazi, so why hiding behind the cards?

    I don’t blame all the foreigners, like you, because one lost brain acted cowardly and killed, just like all the Finns because some..

    “Three mass shootings in the few years, two commited by Finns, one by foreigner. So according to the statistics foreigners commit 33 % of Finland’s mass shootings, althought constituting only a few percent of the population!”

    The mass shooting of the two idiots before “gave example” and were with more victims, and there was also that murder in a mall 5-6 years ago.
    Then count all those routine killings of wives, and those seem almost always only from a Finn husband. If it was a foreigners the papers would explode.
    So it’s much more than 67%

  • Passerby

    First line: I don’t blame all the foreigners or all the Finns just because someone among them is less worth than a sh-t.
    Anyway I somehow blame the society for not providing against domestic violence, for example.

  • Jaska

    “The mass shooting of the two idiots before “gave example””

    You think a hardened career criminal with a history of violence who’s coming from from a violent country with a tradition of vendettas needs any examples?

    You are being racist toward Finns by trying to put the blame on Finns for a crime commited by a non-Finn.

  • sam tha ham

    Yeah, it seems that somehow this is going back to that finns vs. non finns crap. As funny it is to blame Albania for these killings it is as funny somehow claim that they happened because of Finland, finns, mämmi or saunavihta. Please. Nobody says that Al Capone and his boys did St.Valentines Day massacre because they were americans, italians or lived in Chicago or had been playing golf (which they did, by the way). They killed their enemies because they were gangsters. This fucking asshole killed those people because he was a piece of shit. Put the blame where it belongs: to Ibrahim Shkupolli. Not Finland, kebab or any other shit. I don’t blame schools, lakes or makkara for what Pekka Eric or little Matti did. I blame them. They were arseholes too. Nobody makes you kill other people. You choose to kill them. No god, excuse, tradition, religion, moomin troll, or any other shit. Shkupolli killed those people because he chose to kill them. He did it. Nobody else. In the end he was an coward who checked out before finnish cops would’ve done him. But he was the one who made the choice and did it, just like Pekka Eric and Little Matti. Finnish culture of violence? Finnish men? Gimme a break! Next you start to sound like a broken feminist record which says that all the evils in the world are because of middle aged western hetersexual males. Really, wake up, friends.

  • Passerby

    I’m not nazi I’m not racist.
    Jaska, are you nazi and racist?
    Your comments made me wonder.

    I didn’t blame the Finns because of a few criminal idiots.

    There it is: I’ll return it to you.
    “You are being racist toward Finns by trying to put the blame on Finns for a crime commited by a non-Finn.”

  • Anonymouse

    Sad news, but what can you do about it?

    By the way, am I the only one here who reads “Shkupolli” as “sukupuoli” (gender)?

  • Hank W.

    @62 – can I call you al?

    “I want to pick a school in a country where I can really dive in and absorb the local culture, I’m not trying to export my own.”

    Well that is kinda what Finns expect. If you start saying “at home…” you will be told “then go there”. The thing of being “closed” is that nobody will necessarily be touchey-feeley-grouphug. They want to know if you’re mineral, fish or bird first. You don’t “demand” respect – you “earn” it. A lot of people “earn” a “dickhead” label sometimes without realising.

    “But I’ve also traveled enough to have experienced anti-americanism and I really have no motivation to engage in becoming the defacto defender of american foreign policy (of which I had zero influence on).”

    Y’all got Obama now – you might have asked when Bush was up there. It was the time people stitched Canadian flags in their backpacks and said “aboot” a lot.

    “On the whole, is Finland a good place for an open-minded american to live and make friends?”

    I thought “open-minded” means “totally clueless”?

  • Passerby

    C’mon, is it that if in the States someone says “I’m open minded”, it means that he’s interested about new different things while in Finland it means that he’s boasting off?

  • http://www.webroyalty.com Nick Matyas

    very tragic
    Webroyalty

  • http://www.webroyalty.com Nick Matyas

    It’s really a good posting. I like it. It’s pretty much impressive to me. i think others will agree with me.
    Good Luck. ;)

    webroyalty

  • Karelian_Eskimo

    #19 was the best comment in this entire discussion.
    “Wondering if I give a shit”.

  • Dave the Revelator

    “Why do you defend a massmurderer?” -Comment by Jaska

    Why do you misspell it?

  • http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/newblog/ Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho

    @82 by sam tha ham: “in Finland if and when you get sentenced for life, you can get out only by pardon”. This is outdated information, see Rikoslaki (Penal Code) Chapter 2c Section 10 (as amended by act 780/2005). The for-life convict may request parole after 10 years in prison (8 years for young offenders), or after one year of a previous rejection. The matter is decided by the Apellate Court in Helsinki, with possiblity of appeal to the Supreme Court, if the Supreme Court gives leave to appeal. The earliest possible release time is after 12 (10) years. The reason for this was, IIRC, that the legislators wanted a pardon to be exceptional, and so the systematic pardon of for-life convicts was converted to a systematic parole process.

    @81 by Dave the Revelator: “You can get more time dealing drugs here than you can killing someone.” Assuming “here” is Finland, that is not true, if the cases are comparable (both aggravated, or both in the presence of mitigating factors etc, and with a comparable suite of other offences tried at the same time).

    I will not contest the claim that the Finnish penal system is lenient in international comparison. My point originally was that it wasn’t quite as lenient as the original post made it sound like :)

  • Jaska

    For all you who claim that Finland is somehow especially violent a country, here is some statistis: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/crime/documents/violent_crime.pdf

    Britain is the most violent country in the EU and countries like Sweden, Austria and the Netherlands are more violent than Finland. So stop lying: Finland is not even one of the most countries in Western Europe and Eastern Europe is totally in the league of its own.

  • Jaska

    On Ajankohtainen Kakkonen today a Finnish woman in the similar situation as the woman murdered on New Years Eve said that this case was a typical honor killing: the man lost face after the woman filed for a restraining order and felt that he had to act to “save his honor”.

  • Dave the Revelator

    Oh, that proves it then!

  • JoensuunJenkki

    “Why do you defend a massmurderer?” -Comment by Jaska

    “Why do you misspell it?” – Comment by Dave the Revelator

    Hey Dave, when you take a break from pontificating about how Finns should think about foreigners, why don’t you try spelling mass murderer yourself in Finnish. Phil, why don’t you help him?

  • Ranskalainen

    @ JoensuunJenkki

    Please stop to keep this childish discussion.

  • JoensuunJenkki

    …or don’t follow it, Ranskalainen.

  • Dave the Revelator

    JoensuuJenkki, I don’t need to tell you guys how to feel about foreigners. We all know very well that the ovens and gas chambers would be warmed up in a jiffy if you really had your way.

  • Jaska

    http://www.taivaansusi.net/ego/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/200px-mtg_hitler.png

    I suppose Dave insists on attracting more and more ridicule on himself…

  • JoensuunJenkki

    @Dave

    So you’re too lazy and/or inept to even bother googling “joukkomurhaaja”? Not surprising you can’t even speak the local language. Laziness, cultural maladjustment and insistence that the local culture adapt to suit you are probably not the only reasons you have such solidarity with Shkupolli’s type.

    But luckily for us you’ll leave eventually. Guys like you always do. Whether it’s your girlfriend getting bored or your employer finding out that a legion of Indian Drupal ninjas can be hired for a tenth of what they’re paying you, sooner or later you’ll fuck right the hell off outta here. No ovens needed.

    Speaking of ovens, I really do admire how libtards can fall back on zingers like “nazi” and “racist” when their undergraduate wits fail them. Labels are a real timesaver. I could have saved two minutes of my life by simply calling you a lazy, self-righteous prick.

  • Jason

    Turning away from Finland, there’s been another shooting spree. In Virginia of all places.

    http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/artikkeli/Poliisi+jahtaa+ampujaa+Yhdysvaltojen+Virginiassa/1135252266287

  • JohnT

    Jonas G wrote:

    “”"
    Finland does not have a major crime problem. It does, however, have a major gun problem. Now things have gone too far. Drastic action must be taken. Handguns should be completely forbidden. Only the police and military need them. They are not needed in hunting. Hunting weapon licence regulations must be tightened. Will this happen? I am sceptical. So long as we have the Centre party in government and holding the key post of prime minister, I fear that we will not see any real political leadership on this matter.

    A very sad event to end the new year. Let’s hope for a better 2010.

    Comment by Jonas G — Thu, Dec 31st, 2009 @ 7:31 pm
    “”"

    It seems that this is the standard textbook cry whenevery some type of illegal activity occurs with guns. As a person intimately involved in public health (which includes safety) I always have to ask myself what does basic (elementary school math) say? Rather than get into a lengthy debate, I’ll summarize it by asking some questions.

    1) How many people die every day/week/month/year in car accidents in Finland?

    2) How many people die every day/week/month/year crossing the street in Finland?

    3) How many people die every day/week/month/year “fill-in-the-blank” in Finland?

    Get the picture?

    Basic elementary school math dictates that we allocate resources to those issues which will result in the greatest benefit to the population group. A cursory glance will show that there are many far more serious issues deserving of our attention and limited resources to address.

    The Texas Department of Public Safety publishes detailed statistics on licensed concealed carry permit (CCW) holders in the state of Texas. The rate of any criminal activity is phenomenally low. A CCW holder in Texas statistically speaking is the most law abiding citizen of any population sub-group of Texans.

    Think about that for a bit. By popular perception anyone with a gun, and especially someone who legally has the right to carry a gun 24/7 should by default commit more crimes to include crimes that are more administrative in nature, i.e. brandishing a weapon (a felony in the United States), not carrying the weapon properly on one’s person or vehicle (misdemeanor or felony depending on the state) etc etc. This is simply not the case. If anything you would want all citizens (and I’m writing this tongue in cheek) to be CCW holders, not because they would stop crime but because they statistically commit fewer crimes (if any crime at all).

  • Dave the Revelator

    This is an English language blog. Learn to write it, rednecks.

  • Dave the Revelator

    JoensuunJenkki wrote: “So you’re too lazy and/or inept to even bother googling “joukkomurhaaja”? Not surprising you can’t even speak the local language.”

    What in good fuck are you talking about?

    You’re going to break something with all that hate.

    Chill out, you fucking flunkie.

  • JoensuunJenkki

    Dave said: “What in good fuck are you talking about?”

    I am talking about a whining malcontent who likes other people to do his homework for him.

    Get outside of Ring I sometime. Nobody’s chill in these parts. Your boo-hooing about picking on foreigners will get a real reception here.

  • Dave the Revelator

    Get your head out of your pee pee hole sometime. Or don’t.

    Who cares?

  • Anonymous

    You’ve amplified my point. You don’t speak the language, so shut your cockhole. Your opinion isnt for shit here.

  • Dave the Revelator

    You don’t know what fucking languages I speak.

    And yes, I hate you.

  • Joensuunjenkki

    Dave, we don’t know what languages you speak, but you sure as fuck don’t speak finnish. Hence, your opinion in this country is worth shit.
    Ps do you think we’ve met? Maybe i speak from experience

  • Mike

    I was in Kosovo in 1999, that was before the Finnish army bothered turning up. But anyway this is quite normal for a kosovar

  • Anonymous

    Thanks to Finnish liberal laws. Guy was caught two times in possesion of ilegal weapon, and paid fines only. This is how he paid to Finnish kindness or shall I say Finnish rubish law!

  • sonja

    I wrote a short story in summer 2009. In the beginning of the story, a 19-year old Czech man strangles his ex-girlfriend at her apartment. After that he goes to a public place and shoots at thirteen passers-by, killing eight of them. And after THAT he tries to kill himself, but fails. In December I thought, that the story was too similar so I got rid of the text.

  • Anonymous

    So strict finnish gun laws didn’t help against illegal guns, much like strict british gun laws haven’t helped either. Man there sure is a pattern here.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    #133: Uh, which strict laws are those? The ones that require the local policemen to write the serial numbers of registered guns on a piece of toilet paper before using it? Or the ones that require an interview before permitting teenage boys to buy semiautomatic handguns?

    Doesn’t it make you wonder that in a country where the whereabouts of every person, car and dog are meticulously recorded, it is suddenly tooooooo demanding to have a national up to date electronic firearms registry. It just can’t be done.

  • jlz-94

    hell no… i don’t tolerate this kind of immigrants. and one ethnical group which i don’t want to move in finland is russians. i think all russians should stay in their own big poor and ugly country.
    i hate russians very much!

  • http://howtostopsnoringinstantly.com/ howtostopsnoringinstantly.com

    I really like this stand up comedian..This video of his interview is great ..He is a great man indeed..

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