Three Americans feeling lucky they weren’t in the USA
@ 10:24 am This is the kind of news you read in the newspapers on and off “Three football players accused of rape”. Then you read how the judge threw a book at them. But thats in America, so really…
Wait up now – actually we do have “American football” here and we do get players come in from the US and we had three football players accused of rape.
Well, this is Finland so the judges don’t throw books. As the rape wasn’t aggravated, and the men had been jailed for a significant amount of time (two months), the sentence was guilty on two counts of rape and one assisting, all three men sentenced to 1,8 months probation. Oh and yes theres damages to be paid to the women in question 4500 euros each. Somehow I find it slightly bizzarre if they’d run out of the house and pushed over someone who broke their hip, thats worth 8400 euros.
I somehow have in inkling thought if these guys had been back “at home” they might not have gotten off with 3000 euros and two months in jail.
But then again theres the Finnish guy in Brazil facing 18 years for killing his girlfriend. He should’ve come home to strangle her, might have gotten off with 3000 euros and two months in jail.
But then again theres the Finnish guy in Brazil facing 18 years for killing his girlfriend. He should’ve come home to strangle her, might have gotten off with 3000 euros and two months in jail.
It’s funny because it’s true.
Comment by Biff Loman — Thu, Nov 5th, 2009 @ 10:33 am
This finnish guy in brazil will get his ass pampered really nice by the inmates…
Comment by HangLoose — Thu, Nov 5th, 2009 @ 11:10 am
I did a post about this years ago:
Rape Sentencing: US vs. Finland
So what is her take after taxes?
Comment by Fred Fry — Thu, Nov 5th, 2009 @ 4:33 pm
The minimum sentence for murder in Finland is life.
Comment by anon — Thu, Nov 5th, 2009 @ 11:04 pm
When has killing your girlfriend been a “murder” in Finland?
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Nov 5th, 2009 @ 11:28 pm
“The minimum sentence for murder in Finland is life.”
Right, and we all know that ‘life’ in Finland is about 10 years, often less. Not exactly short enough to get nine-lives, but as Finland’s most infamous killer (Valjakkala) knows, that you are most unlikely to die behind bars in Finland for killing someone. And lord knows he has tried. Hell, the court actually viewed his string of minor crimes (car theft) as signs that he has reformed!
The Finnish criminal system is a joke when you look at home some of these serious crimes are frankly not taken seriously. However, watch out for the hammer to crush you if the state thinks that you have ot paid your ‘fair share’ of taxes.
Comment by Fred Fry — Fri, Nov 6th, 2009 @ 1:42 am
Or then this nutcase in Tampere – Seppo Lehto who was sentenced 2 years hard time for “slander” against some politicians and other people (he’d made his shitblogs about a lot of people but many of them didn’t think it was worth their time pursuing).
Comment by Hank W. — Fri, Nov 6th, 2009 @ 6:13 pm
Do not wear any military uniforms or gear in ameriKKKa at this time,
you just may get shot real good! ;(
the killer gets away with murder! Denial by mainstream media is rampant,as to motive!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Sat, Nov 7th, 2009 @ 4:16 am
Interesting, if confusing, link:
http://www.nordicethics.com/
These American businessmen are calling for a boycott on Finnish and Swedish goods because “Sweden and Finland cheat every man, woman and child in the United States. They set aside laws, treaties and trade agreements to seize our small slice of a great success.”
Can anyone figure out what this is all about? They tried to explain it but the bad writing and anger seems to have gotten in their way.
I apologize in advance for the disembodied dude who talks to you with his hands on the front page.
Comment by Dave The Revelator — Sat, Nov 7th, 2009 @ 2:59 pm
“Can anyone figure out what this is all about?”
From what I gather from the site is that Sonera started a unit in the US and promised them 3% of the profit they created. Then once they created way more profit than Sonera ever expected, they took their 97% as well as the 3% they promised the US staff, instead offering them some bogus new incentive scheme. When they complained they were fired.
Apparently Sonera thought that the compensation was too large to give out politically, so they gave out nothing. Sounds like the US staff was shafted.
Looks like they are wasting their time trying to push a buycott. Where is the lawsuit?
Comment by Fred Fry — Sat, Nov 7th, 2009 @ 3:39 pm
If you read the documents, the American “thought” and “was promised” – but without a written agreement so he got a huge ass salary but nothing more than a Finnish CEO would get as a bonus. Shows just how greedy the Americans are, guy gets 350 000 as a salary but then wants a quick payoff instead of settling in getting some stock options. Hopefully the greedy pig boils in his own shit.
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Nov 8th, 2009 @ 10:07 am
I don’t know who is right or wrong in this issue but http://www.nordicethics.com/ is not doing itself any favors with the way the site looks and feels.
The tone isn’t that of a few disgruntled executives it’s more in the ilk of Reverend Phelps’ unbridled confusion and anger. http://www.godhatesfags.com/
Comment by Dave The Revelator — Sun, Nov 8th, 2009 @ 11:11 am
Legally speaking life means minimum of 12 years in prison. After that most get freed in +1-2 which of course means that average life sentence in Finland is like 13 years.
Comment by nasse — Sun, Nov 8th, 2009 @ 1:41 pm
Hank,
It has nothing to do with being greedy. They were promised more. And when they delivered the goods, the company said F.U.
Lets face it, compensation in Finland sucks, unless you are a totally unskilled good-for-nothing loser. Only then do you make out like a bandit. (Although if the Democrats get their way, the lazy and stupid will have their own payday.)
“which of course means that average life sentence in Finland is like 13 years.”
- At the end of that time their victim remains dead. Dead is a life sentence…
Comment by Fred Fry — Sun, Nov 8th, 2009 @ 3:26 pm
O.T. Please do not hurt the trees!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmQLccLYOYY&feature=fvw
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Sun, Nov 8th, 2009 @ 7:55 pm
Ah, now I don’t wonder if the “nordicethics” guy thinks he got shafted because probably was it was in the 1999-2000 bubble… http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20010820IE1
After Sonera and the others crashed no wonder. Ain’t a quick buck there.
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Nov 8th, 2009 @ 11:18 pm
“The Finnish criminal system is a joke when you look at home some of these serious crimes are frankly not taken seriously. However, watch out for the hammer to crush you if the state thinks that you have ot paid your ‘fair share’ of taxes.”
You would feel right at home in Saudi Arabia. Beheadings, stoning to death, cutting hands and so on. US justice system is one big freak show and has very rarely something to do with real justice. World record of people jailed and still crime rates in major cities 5-10 times worse than in EU, especially homicides and gun related crimes.
When prisons were privatized in the US, the number of prisoners skyrocketed…hmmm, wonder why. Nothing to do with PROFITS? Cannot possible be.
Have you ever considered that MOST prisoners will be released eventually. Of course there are cases in which one just murders somebody and gets life but usually it starts early on, 10-12 year old troubled kids stealing stuff from local supermarket while parents just do not care.
Any experienced cop could tell you that, the same kids and their families are over and over again in trouble and it gets worse every time. Petty thief, a lot of violence related crimes, maybe a robbery or two, doing drugs and eventually either killed, OD or kills somebody by age of 25-40.
Brazil style monkey houses will always produce even worse criminals, real high school for criminals. Even Americans have noticed that their BOOT camps are just making criminals tougher and many are even bragging about it.
Comment by Antero — Mon, Nov 9th, 2009 @ 12:11 am
“According to Ritala, the suspected deed would have happened in the residence of the players in question on Sunday night nearly two weeks ago. The men were taken into custody on Thursday of last week, Ritala says”
So Hank and Fred Fry, what would YOU have done in this she said-they said? Believe the girl without any physical evidence? Girl goes to police station ONE WEEK after! The sentence probably is just another “well, we cannot prove either way conclusively but lets give them something”.
American justice system probably has sentenced them to 15 years and some stupid blond on Law TV clapping happily hands. “Yeah, we got them!”.
Comment by Antero — Mon, Nov 9th, 2009 @ 12:25 am
Advisory; with H1N1 posing some serious concerns worldwide, I wish that you Finns would stop the disgusting habit of spitting out phlegm in public!!
This habit of yours is truly utterly disgusting.One of the things which surprised me the most when I first came to Finland, was the way people just spit onto the pavements etc. Back home, from small kids, we are taught that if you really have to cough up phlegm, you do so in a toilet bowl, or into a napkin, which should then be folded and disposed of.
There are giant globs of yellow phlegm every where on the streets of Helsinki. IS THAT HOW YOU FINNS ARE SO CIVILIZED? Just this week, noticed a high school boy here sit on a bench in a train station, and spit several times on the ground between his feet. What surprised me the most, was that there were other people sitting on the bench, who were not repulsed by his action.
Guess you can never take away the Eastern European habit of spitting in public from Finland.
Comment by RegularGuy — Mon, Nov 9th, 2009 @ 5:46 am
@ 14:
“It has nothing to do with being greedy. They were promised more. And when they delivered the goods, the company said F.U.”
I’d say they didn’t “deliver” as Sonera never “made it” in the USA. They bought a part of Aerial in 1998 and then sold it off to was it Deutsche Telecom…at the time Sonera was run by idiots though that bought air from Germany. Of course if the bubble hadn’t burst when it did things might be different. Regardless – any bastard making 350 000 salary and complaining on top is a greedy bastard.
Comment by Gay Majander — Mon, Nov 9th, 2009 @ 1:42 pm
Fred Fry:
“nstead offering them some bogus new incentive scheme. When they complained they were fired.”
Isn’t that the American Way? What are these losers complaining about?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Nov 9th, 2009 @ 4:40 pm
“World record of people jailed and still crime rates in major cities 5-10 times worse than in EU, especially homicides and gun related crimes.”
– The crime rates in the big cities are a problem because the Liberals who control the big cities nurture it along with the population that protects the very criminals who cause the problems. It is well known that in these communities the arrest rate for murders is under 10%.
– As for gun crime, these areas do not prosecute those convicted of gun crime. They merely blame other states for the problem. Take the DC sniper. Most of the murders took place in Maryland yet he is being executed this week in Virginia because Maryland prosecutors did not have the backbone to give him the death penalty. DC let off a woman who walked into DC police HQ, pulled a gun and stuck it in a security guard’s chest and pulled the trigger in an attempt to steal his gun with probation.
– The solution for inner city problems is to move the unemployed people out of those areas to parts of the country that have the jobs that they need. The politicians will not do that because they would be telling voters to move away. Instead they bribe them with welfare and ‘rent control’ while whispering into their ears that nothing is their fault. Jobs and companies move naturally but politicians are doing their best to keep these loyal voters prisoners as their neighborhoods change.
As for this specific case, I have no opinion. I was just pointing out that rape sentencing in Finland in general was not as serious as in the US.
Comment by Fred Fry — Mon, Nov 9th, 2009 @ 6:30 pm
Fred Fry:
“(Although if the Democrats get their way, the lazy and stupid will have their own payday.)”
The lazy, stupid Wall Street criminals have had their payday for the last 25 years, mostly thanks to Republicans.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Nov 9th, 2009 @ 7:10 pm
C’mon, you always have the reps in power in the States, and many Africans are in the pens.
With decades of Reagan and Bush couldn’t you fix the problems, but sending and spending billions to Afgh and Iraq?
Comment by PasserBy — Tue, Nov 10th, 2009 @ 9:47 am
Off Topic:Fly the friendly skies!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9srPoOU6_Z4
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Nov 11th, 2009 @ 1:18 am
Three strikes and ya all out . California here we come . Maybe they could do a prison transfer deal with Finland.. out source .Furlough.
Comment by Exile — Thu, Nov 12th, 2009 @ 2:57 am
For all this talk about loose justice system in the EU and tough on crime America, haven’t US prisons been releasing plenty of inmates lately because they want to cut down costs due to the economic downturn? I know they have plenty of inmates to begin with, so most will probably still do hard time for a long time but isn’t the Atlantic-wide cultural gap between our contintents being smoothed over even on this issue?
Comment by Helsinkian — Thu, Nov 12th, 2009 @ 7:40 pm
Finland used to have a “three strikes” type of law in the 60’s still. The 1970’s “humane” legislation by the socialists put the pendulum to swing to the other direction. I think thats a bit “too far” in the other direction in some cases… like letting multiple rapists and homicidial maniacs onto the street even if its evident the rehabilitation doesn’t work. As theres no money – so even if the person has mental problems he is let off on the streets so he has to kill someone to get treatment. How sad is that?
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Nov 12th, 2009 @ 8:31 pm
Even more offtopic for innfindel et al.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j99Kbz_J2FM
Guess who was there.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Fri, Nov 13th, 2009 @ 7:32 pm
What color were the 3 men that were convicted of the rape? I am assuming they were black. African Americans do leave thier “mark” in Finland.
Phil, have you heard of this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Thomas_(HIV_infector)
Comment by Doggy Steve — Sun, Nov 15th, 2009 @ 9:23 am
#30: IIRC, two were white and one was black.
And yes indeed, there was a case nearly 15 years ago and now another. I detect a pattern – almost as clear as with Finnish girlfriend-killers in Brazil.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Nov 15th, 2009 @ 9:46 pm
Well the judges are white women
http://yle.fi/ecepic/archive/00152/Rajaritarit_raiskau_152485b.jpg
Lets say one of the defendants does not have dreadlocks…
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Nov 19th, 2009 @ 8:27 pm
@ #29… Greetings ***FREAKIN*** freeridin Franklin…
It be da great youtube link you done linked dere bro’
YAH good ole George Clinton done be da bomb..
I done hope you shaked your ***BOO-TEE*** to P-Funks massive BEAT at da Hellsinki gig!
I saw P-funk live in dee BIG APPLE 10 years ago and it was a massive ***BOO-TEE*** shakin’ tyme foo meee tooo!
Here ia a youtube link to ***BLOWFLY***,a mentor to dat atomic dogg
***COLORFULL GEORGE CLINTON*** Enjoy dis video,Franklin,you dogg you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFop4SsgQkc&feature=PlayList&p=236E668B83AB0CD4&index=0
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Sat, Nov 21st, 2009 @ 3:26 pm
Here be some mo’fine,fine ***SUPPA FINE*** BLOWFLY SHIT,to make yo git up and ***SHAKE YO BOO-TEEEE***,Mr.Franklin dogg!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1iTW1szfw&NR=1
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Sat, Nov 21st, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
Dear Phil,
I read your blog post, and I see it connects to the heart of one of the most serious political problems in the Finnish society. I haven’t yet had time to read all the comments here, but I will sure read them next. Right now I just want to write down my initial thoughts just after reading this article that a friend of referred me to.
What you say is so true. It is so true, no words can express. Finnish justice system is absolutely corrupt to the bone in this sense, and as a Finn it makes me feel depressed, anxious and ashamed at the same time. Even guilty. Especially I am horrified by how men – especially the powerful and famous – escape their rape convictions with so disgustingly small sentences. There are numerous other cases than the ones in your article. For example:
http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/1135239476564 (in Finnish)
A 54-year-old police officer got 2.5 years in prison for raping a 15-year-old girl and €8,000 in damages. First off, just according to the law on police duties and rights in Finland, the police officers should behave themselves in a respectful manner both in their private and public lives. To me, this would logically mean of course that a police officer committing such serious crime should be sentenced both for the victim and for the public for desecrating his office. But no. The public prosecutor did not appeal the sentence.
This sentence is nothing but totally in line with some (all) previous convictions. The minimum penalty for rape is one year in prison, but there are many possible “mitigating circumstances” (yes, to a rape) that can make the crime something of a “lesser rape” – for example the victim being unconscious! I don’t even want to dwell into all these possible “mitigating circumstances” – they are so depressive and stupid – but you are not the first person to criticize them. They have indeed been reported by international human rights’ watch organizations such as Amnesty International before:
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/1135239507838
Amensty International criticises Finnish rape legislation.
The real truth is actually even sadder. There are actually numerous cases where the perpetrator was sentenced only to a probational term and/or (even only) a fine – essentially letting them walk free; or even unharmed, if they happen to be economically well-off. It also seems, that certain district courts are especially nice on rapists, which just adds to how alarming the situation actually is.
I just hope, that in the future we can have some truly respectful decision-makers who would adjust the Finnish violence and rape legislation to internationally accepted humane standards. In the current reality I sadly don’t see any change forthcoming, as the Ministry of Justice has been totally deaf to the general public uproar that has been going on during the last decade or so, launching no inquiry to the possibility of increasing sentencing. Democracy? Maybe. Justice? Hell no!
Comment by BillyBoy — Fri, Nov 27th, 2009 @ 6:30 pm
Yep, have to agree with BillyBoy that justice system in this country is joke – especially for people sentenced for child sexual abuse. There is no uniformity in sentencing and soketimes perpetrators do not go to jail at all. They serve half their sentence and are free to walk the streets and abuse children again…
Comment by C — Tue, Dec 15th, 2009 @ 7:50 am