Finland’s infamous immigrant-hater in court
Finland’s infamous immigrant-hater, Helsinki city councilman Jussi Halla-Aho, a member of Finland’s racist, nationalist political party, the True Finns, is court for, you guessed it…racism…
The Helsinki District Court read charges against Helsinki City councilman, Jussi Halla-Aho, on breach of the peace and agitating against an ethnic group.
According to the prosecutor, Simo Kolehmainen, Halla-aho has publicly defamed matters Islam deem holy. Halla-Aho has written in his internet writings that islam is a pedophile religion. In addition he has written that robbing passers-by and living off wellfare are national and or genetic features of the Somali Muslim people.
According to the Prosecutor, Halla-aho’s writings insult the Muslims living in Finland and endanger the country’s religious peace.
Representing himself, Halla-Aho admitted writing the articles in question. However, Halla-Aho denied the defamation charges. Halla-Aho claims that the prosecutor has taken the writings out of context. He plead not guilty.
A lot of Halla-Aho’s supporters were present and they laughed out loud when the prosecutor read excerps from Halla-Aho’s Islam writings.
Here’s a translation of the text that got Halla-Aho in trouble. Although my guess is that this was just “the straw that broke the camel’s back”, as he’s been writing this kind of stuff for years.
Halla-Aho goes after a lot of things in his post: “Politicians”, who create the laws Hallo-Aho loathes. “Free speech”, which there’s a severe lack of in Finland (very true). The “Muslim religion”, all religions are equally silly IMO. And “Immigrants”, oops, this is where Halla-Aho gets racist and retarded…
Somalis who constitute 0.2 per cent of Finland’s total population commit 12 per cent of robberies reported to the Police. One in ten Somalis living in Finland has a job. Committing robberies and living at taxpayers’ expense are a lot more common among Somalis related to their share of the population than killing while intoxicated among the ethnic Finns. Therefore, I present my assumption (that I do not regard as fact):
Robbing bypassers and living at taxpayers’ expense as a parasite is a national, possibly genetic characteristic of Somalis.
Robbing bypassers and living at taxpayers’ expense as a parasite is a national, possibly genetic characteristic of Somalis.
Ughh. This is where I quickly lose sympathy for the guy. Ignorant people like Halla-Aho should be ignored, yet court cases like these only further incite racial hatred in the country and bring more members to the True Finns party.
Good job Phil…Trying to stir up a hornets nest on this blog is not your style…since your last blunder that almost cost you dearly…
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Tue, Aug 25th, 2009 @ 11:04 pm
Suomi has become a pathetic multi-culti paradise wanna-be….
Your blog has taken a dramatic loss of commenters,because of fears that
the Political Correctness Police of Suomi will come after anyone who speaks the truth like Jussi Halla-Alto…on this blog..
There are many like me who feel that Finland is rapidly losing it,s cultural identity due to multi-culti political correctness,that is
stopping Finnish people’s standing up for it’s right to believe in Suomi!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Tue, Aug 25th, 2009 @ 11:13 pm
I can not count the times jack-asses on this blog have attempted to defame ,insult, and denigrate me for my political satire I have presented on this blog for many years …but that was what I have been looking for
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Tue, Aug 25th, 2009 @ 11:22 pm
Not clear who’s going to win or even what the fuss is about.
My impression is that Halla-aho is not a racist, i.e. he doesn’t seem to object race or ethnicity, but values and cultural mores. When he refers to different ethnic groups, he seems to make probabilistic (statistical) arguments, not deterministic (gene-based, biological ones. So if any immigrant to Finland respected the Finnish cultural mores, Halla-aho would have nothing negative to say about him. I tend to see this as a cultural conflict between Halla-aho’s western european values and the cultural mores of immigrants from outside western europe. So I’d call him a “culturalist”, not a “racist”. The difference is in the possibilities one assumes for the immigrant’s behavior: a racist assumes that the behavior is in the genes and predetermined for the immogrant, a culturalist assumes that the immigrant can choose to behave according to his chosen set of cultural mores. I haven’t read everything Halla-aho writes, that’s just my interpretation of the stuff I read.
One thing that clearly should not play a role is Mika Illman’s personal irritation. The court should not yield to such discretionary power.
Comment by mara — Tue, Aug 25th, 2009 @ 11:28 pm
Can I go compromising them charities for their wickedness?
Comment by Hank.W — Tue, Aug 25th, 2009 @ 11:50 pm
The name is written Halla-aho.
This case is an example of the lack of true freedom of speach. The most influential prosecutors are members of Demla, a far-left jurist organisation, which is crusading against the freedom of speach. They have promoted the policy “criticism is acceptable as long as it is not spoken aloud.”
Halla-aho is charged with the blasphemy of allah. Read that sentence again. Blasphemy of allah. Usually that kind of mock trials are conducted in countries like Sudan or Iran. The Somali-thing was a parody of an editorial in the magazine Kaleva which claimed that beating and killing while drunk are national or genetic features of Finns. Halla-aho wrote a similar sentence about the Somalis to raise the issue of double standards in the media: it’s OK to speculate of the national features of Finns, but it’s illegal to do the same of Somalis.
The chain of events: Halla-aho criticized the state prosecutor Mika Illman in his blog. After 2008 the municipal election Halla-aho’s political opponents filed a complaint to the police about him. Illman’s deputy announced the pressing of charges one day before the True Finns announced their final candidates for the election to the European Parliament, thus succesfully influencing their leadership.
This is a political trial against the freedom of speech. If Halla-aho is convicted he will become a martyr of the freedom of speech. In any case his support will rise.
True freedom of speach means that one can speak against the official view of things. In the Soviet Union anyone could say that communism is great, but if he were to criticize communism he was punished. That isn’t freedom of speach. Nowadays anyone can say that multiculturalism is a blessing, but if someone criticizes that view he is punished.
Comment by Jaska — Tue, Aug 25th, 2009 @ 11:57 pm
Here is the translation of the blog writing in question: http://www.eurabia.cz/PrintArticle/2927-jussi-halla-aho-to-stand-trial-for-blasphemy-against-allah.aspx
Comment by Jaska — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:01 am
Anyone who steps out-of-bounds by resisting multi-culti
political-correctness is attacked as being a racist…
People like infinndel for example …labeling people like infindell as
being a racist is the rampant sport of the left wing statists.
I welcome being labeled a ***RACIST*** because I do not ***DISCRIMINATE***…I hate the whole human race,for being moronic buffoons of hatred to the other,whatever color or stripe!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:01 am
I hate my ***BLACK T-SHIRT***!…infinndel must be a ***RACIST***!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:35 am
infinndel hates the ***BLACK HOLE*** at the center of
the ***MILKY-WAY***… infinndel is a racist!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:37 am
***SUKSI VITTUN*** infinndel hates ***BLACK HOLES***
infinndel is a ***RACIST***!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou3TukauccM
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:47 am
Why do you need to lie? Halla-aho did not say that “robbing passers-by and living off wellfare are national and or genetic features of the Somali Muslim people”. It all started when a finnish newspaper ran an article which said “drinking (excessively) and killing is a national, if not genetical, attribute of finns”. In his blog Halla-aho then asked how is it possible that defaming finns is legal and pondered what would happen if the sentence in question was changed to concern somalis. He also added that “ng passers-by and living off wellfare are national and or genetic features of the Somali Muslim people” is not something he considers as a fact AND admitted not every somali does that. So why do you need to lie by quotemining? Why?
Comment by Nequam — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:48 am
***GOT HORNETS NEST***!?…yet
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:53 am
o.k.people of SUOMI….
tell me what you think…
list the reasons why you think..
***INFINNDEL IS RACIST***
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 1:18 am
(an unofficial translation of Halla-ahos text about the trial)
THE TRIAL
Today I stood trial in Helsinki district court. Prosecutor was Simo Kolehmainen and judge was Jussi Sipola.
Johan Bäckman has written quite good description of the proceedings, so I shall not go over that side myself. Everyone present wondered at the strong presence of State Prosecutor Mika Illman in the trial, even if he wasn’t physically present. Most of the questions the prosecutor asked from me were in one way or another about what I meant by saying this or that about Illman:
S.K: Why did you, in your essay “Few baits for Mika Illman” commented the punishment of Seppo Lehto, if you haven’t read all the papers relating to the case?
J.H: It is quite normal that people comment on things they are not experts on.
S.K: What do you mean when you, at the end of essay, wish Mika Illman “good day”?
J.H: I don’t wish to use the f-word, but this style can be called provocation.
In practice, Kolehmainen acted as the attorney of offended and provoked Illman. Formally Illman played no role in the process, but according to information I’ve received from police, he prodded them to examine everything I’ve written when it became clear that there was nothing in the crime report by Heli Järvinen (of Green Women) that would have been enough for even starting the judicial proceedings, let alone making a charge.
Most of the time different sides spoke of different things. Kolehmainen attempted to prove that my sentences were offensive. I didn’t dispute the offensiveness, but talked of my reasons for writing those sentences. According to Kolehmainen, my motive to offend was proved by amongst other things the fact that the sentences were bolded and I myself stated they were offensive. I asked of Kolehmainen that if he wished to present someone, would he include a statement “this is offensive”? Wouldn’t that kind of water down the whole insult? I also mentioned that the Dictionary of Modern Finnish includes the words “negro” and “nigger”, both bolded and referred to as offensive, and asked Kolehmainen if he thinks this proves that the dictionary uses the words “negro” and “nigger” with the intent to slander.
Kolehmainen presented the court with my essays “Comments about A-Talk show”, “My apologies” and “Shortly about the charge” as additional proof of my intent to offend. I did think this a little amusing since – had I remembered – I would have presented the very same essays as proofs for the defense. Kolehmainen caused a general burst of laughter by stating that he doesn’t think “My apologies” is a genuine apology.
It was also somewhat interesting that the proceedings were held in a tiny hall, even though considerable interest in the case was propably expected.
Media articles have been collected in the MediaWatch-blog. Ilta-Sanomat has again had little troubles in choosing its headlines. Possibly the reporter was angry, since there wasn’t room for him in the hall.
I thank everyone who came over from nearby and further away, and those that called and wrote during the day, for their support! Below is my own statement in text form. Translitteration of prosecutor’s statements should be finished in some time.
* * *
The foundation of my text is the newspaper Kaleva’s primary editorial from 20.5.2008. It included the following part:
“It is indisputable that Finland is one of West Europe’s most violent countries, and that it is inextricably related to alcohol use. Killing people while intoxicated is a national, maybe even genetic characteristic.”
Many people, myself included, thought that this kind of argument is not only absurd, but also highly offensive. The editorial was reported to Council of Public Word, which however refused to do anything about it. The secretary of Council, Nina Porra, commented on the decision this way:
“Writer seems to refer to studies, where binge drinking has been found to be a special charasteristic of Finnish alcohol culture. Intoxication and violence has also been proved to be connected. The writer doesn’t present the genetic background as a fact, but simply as her own supposition.”
State Prosecutor’s Bureau also refused to take any action against newspaper Kaleva, even if crimes of incitement are part of its domain.
In order to prove that such arguments are highly offensive, I turned the newspaper Kaleva’s sentence into parody where “Finns” were replaced by “Somalis”. My hypothesis was that Somalis are under special protection of media and officials, and argument that is permissible to present about Finns becomes nonpermissible when it is about Somalis. My own version was as follows:
“Robbing passer-bys and living as parasites on tax money is the national, maybe even genetic charasteristic of Somalis.”
In order to make fun of Council of Public Word I mentioned in the text that I present this argument as supposition, not as a fact. In addition I proved that by using crime statistics, the argument about Somalis can be proved equally well as Kaleva’s argument about Finns.
I emphasize that unlike the writer of newspaper Kaleva’s primary editorial, I didn’t present my own, offensive argument as my opinion, but I used it to criticise and insult double standards. Factually speaking, and considering the mechanisms of evolution, the mere thought of living as a parasite with tax funds or killing people while intoxicated being a genetic characteristic of some population is insane.
I note that the criminal law’s statute about incitement against national group doesn’t put different groups on inequal positions. It doesn’t state that it is permissible to slander one group, but not another. In addition, the sixth article of Finnish constitution states: “All people are equal before the law.” I interpret this as meaning that every ethnic group is also equal before the law. In my opinion the equality means that law doesn’t just equally restrict the behaviour of every people, but also protects everyone with equal force.
Therefore: Even if I had presented the argument about Somalis as an opinion and not as demonstrative material, raising charges about my argument of Somalis, but not newspaper Kaleva’s argument of Finns, is in conflict with the equality article of constitution. However, in this case this is irrelevant, since – as stated – the meaning to offense mentioned in the charge is lacking. This case is comparable to accusing the textbook on history of Nazi propaganda, since it demonstrates anti-Semitic arguments once presented by Nazis.
Another part mentioned in the charge is as follows:
“Prophet Muhammed was a pedophile and islam a religion that sanctifies pedophilia, therefore a pedophile religion.”
This sentence is related to discussion where I criticize the idea of the subjective offensiveness of some sentence being a sufficient criteria for its judicial offensiveness. In other words, if some group is offended by sentence X, sentence X is illegal irrespective of whether it is true or not. In my opinion, stating of facts cannot and must not be illegal, even if they offend someone. This is also a problem of equality. For example, a Muslim is offended by criticism of his religion far more easily than average Christian. If subjective offensiveness suffices as the criteria of crime, law protects Muslim with greater force than it protects Christian.
My sentences about Muhammed and Islam weren’t opinions, but inescapably logical conclusions based on known facts. I don’t use the word “pedophile” as psychopathological concept, but in its popular meaning of a person having sex with children. The traditional Muslim knowledge, hadith literature, tells that Muhammed had sex with his wife Aisha when she was nine years old. A nine year old is seen as a child today, and physically she was a child in 7th century, no matter what her judicial status was. Therefore, if Muhammed had sex with Aisha and Aisha was a child, Muhammed had sex with a child.
That Muhammed is a holy figure to Muslims cannot make him immune to criticism in West, especially if criticism is based on indisputed facts. In addition to being a holy figure to Muslims, he was also a historical person, warleader, politician and a demagogue, who must be a permissible target of criticism just like other important historical figures.
What does it mean that “Islam is a religion that sanctifies pedophilia, therefore a pedophile religion”? Muhammed’s way of life, or sunna, is in every respect exemplary according to Islam. I quote professor Jaakko Hämeen-Anttila’s Pocket Dictionary of Islam from year 2001:
“Sunna is a binding example for Muslims, and the responsibility of every pious Muslim is to follow the example of prophet Muhammed. Prophet Muhammed was [...] protected from errors (ma sum), so nothing in his behaviour was wrong or not intended by God.”
In addition, professor Hämeen-Anttila states in his Handbook of Islam from year 2004:
“During his life, Prophet didn’t act solely based on contemporary situation, but also keeping in mind the future. The details of Prophet’s life were meant to be imitated forever by Islamic community.”
Islam holds everything Muhammed did as exemplary and according to God’s will, including having sex with his child wife. Therefore it is justifiable to say that Islam sanctifies pedophilia. It must be noted that I am speaking of Islam as a doctrine, not of Muslims, most of whom do not live according to Islam’s demands. However, this is far more than a theoretical problem. Pedophiliac practices in Islamic world and the Muslim communities of West are justified precisely on prophet Muhammed’s example. I remind you that last winter the imam of Finland’s Islamic Community, Khodr Chehab, bragged in public about having wed 14-year old children into Islamic marriage, and thought that 11 years is suitable age of marriage for girls.
I refer here to some decisions made by State Prosecutor’s Bureau.
First is from March 2005. The subject was a newspaper article by a certain pastor, “White and Black Devil”, where according to Deputy State Prosecutor, pope and the holy institutions of Catholic and Orthodox churches were criticised harshly and occasionally mockingly. The text was studied as incitement against national group and disturbance of religious worship. Deputy State Prosecutor stated that there was no reason to suspect crime in the matter, and amongst other things, justified it as follows:
“The freedom of speech doesn’t merely cover such facts and thoughts that are gladly received, that are thought harmless or regarded without interest. Freedom of speech also covers such messages that offend, shock and disturb the state or some of its national groups.”
During year 2006, Suomen Sisu published on its internet pages the controversial Danish Muhammed cartoons. There was an investigation request and a preliminary investigation, but the process ended during the June of said year, when prosecutor Kalske made the decision to not raise charges. Kalske justified it like this:
“It cannot be thought that the suspects acted in order to offend the religious sensibilities of people that the law refers to. On the contrary I hold it credible that suspects meant to make a kind of objection against the public policy.”
My case and the case of Suomen Sisu are highly similar, though with the difference that in the case of my text, the lack of motivation to offend isn’t a matter of interpretation, but completely obvious from the context. The reason for presenting the sentences has been clearly spelled out, even in the title.
I point out that in the prosecution order, prosecutor Kalske has completely disregarded the explanation I gave during preliminary investigation about my motives. As I see it, he has violated his official responsibility to objectively consider the pros and cons of initiating the prosecution. It is the responsibility of prosecutor to justify why he thinks my argument about Islam and Muhammed has been presented in order to offend, and not as a protest against public policy, as I argue.
I’ll refer to still one decision of State Prosecutor’s Bureau, from January 2009. Religious community called Word and Praise had made a crime report about web site called Bloodgroup. On its front page it stated that “The intent of Bloodgroup is to insult Word and Praise Congregation and religion in general.” The report was about disturbance of religious worship. I quote some of Bloodgroup’s material:
“Christ. We’d fuck Christ. Jesus Christ was a faggot. What does Bible say about having sex with kids? It’s the only way to enjoy sex.”
According to prosecutor Kalske, there was no propable reason to suspect disturbance of religious worship.
As we see, the cases that have been quoted and their justifications are in roaring conflict with this prosecution. This is violating my right to equal treatment before the law, and is pure abuse of official power.
in the end I point out, that as much as my opinions have made reporters and politicians cry, the text “Few baits for Mika Illman” has received no attention whatsoever before this process. No one has been offended or incited, excluding prosecutor Kalske. This is because everyone who has read the essay has understood what it is about. That it is criticism pointed at media and officials. It is only prosecutor Kalske who has turned the comment about Somalis offensive by detaching it from its context. Detached from its context it is precisely as offensive as the newspaper Kaleva’s primary editorial which it parodied.
* * *
You propably guess what the deputy chairman of Finland’s PEN, freedom of speech specialist Jarkko Tontti, thinks about this. The excuses and the strawmen are approaching desperate level.
Comment by Copypaster — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 1:36 am
True Finns is a racist party? Halla-aho is an immigrant hater? Phil, I sincerely get the impression that you’re a nice, liberal person but you need to get your facts straight. True Finns and Halla-aho do not deserve the labels that you just appointed to them.
You can watch Halla-aho being interviewed after yesterday’s court hearing on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGtsWjXNI-s). From 4:20 onwards, he is asked what kind of immigration policy he advocates. He answers by saying that he “opposes immigration policies that create unreasonable burden on the receiving societies” and that “no normal person opposes work-related immigration, that is self evident.”
Anyone who acknowledges or is aware of the burden that *mass* immigration from third world (especially muslim) countries to Europe has caused understands Halla-aho’s skepticism about immigration perfectly well, even though they might not agree with the wording that he occasionally uses.
Phil, I seriously recommend you to read the blog entry with an open mind (http://www.eurabia.cz/PrintArticle/2927-jussi-halla-aho-to-stand-trial-for-blasphemy-against-allah.aspx). The point of the text was to test whether different groups in Finland enjoy the same legal protection and whether it is illegal to state a fact that may offend certain groups.
Is it racism to call for tougher policies on non-work-related immigration? Is it racism to note the fact that certain groups of immigrants have been unable to integrate into our societies by large and this shows in their crime and unemployment rates? Is it racism to note the fact that in reality, a large percentage of (European) muslims hold very fundamentalist world views? And is it racism to sayi that this might not be something that we want in our society? Because if these things are not racism, I think you owe yourself a favor by making a new assesment of Halla-aho’s writings.
People need to stop clinging on the most controversial statements Halla-aho has made and try look at his writings with an open mind. The problem is that the media has been pretty effective in its smear campaign against him so that a large number of people are just unable to make a fair assesment.
Anyways Phil, I know you’re busy building this country and so on, but I would appreciate a further comment or two from you on this
Comment by Teemu — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 3:22 am
Anyways Phil, I know you’re busy building this country and so on, but I would appreciate a further comment or two from you on this
I added some more comments in the post above. I think Halla-Aho is a racist retard. But if that were a crime, half the country would be in prison.
What’s interesting is WHY the authorities decided to pick on Halla-Aho. I mean, YLE has racist guests who make fun of African’s noses…no problem there. An organization places anti-God bus ads around the country…no problem there. So why the problem now?
Comment by Phil — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 7:13 am
And now we have this lunatic talking about too many foreigners in Finnish universities and politechnics
http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/08/social_affairs_minister_is_finland_educating_too_many_foreigners_954083.html
You know all foreigners should just leave Finland and let the country fuck itself up with their xenophobic population.
Comment by foreigner — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 7:19 am
good god, phil! is this how you think us americans should portray finland?
It seriously seems that you just dont know what halla-aho was speaking about and only what the media keeps circulating as the “truth”.
“Robbing bypassers and living at taxpayers’ expense as a parasite is a national, possibly genetic characteristic of Somalis.”
-He said its WRONG to say such things, as its wrong to say that “its a national, possibly genetic characteristic of finns to kill people while drunk”.
Comment by McKern — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 7:31 am
Teemu,
I may be wrong, but I believe the point of the justice system is to address the extremities of individual behaviour, and not the more mundane things people do. Most serial killers spend very little time actually killing you know. And yet it is really not that relevant whether they are polite and sweet members of society in the interim. Similarly, it is really very uninteresting as to whether Hallo-Aho *sometimes* says things that are not racist. That’s not what he’s on trial for. It’s the other bat-shit crazy things he keeps writing that are the issue.
Comment by Rich — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 7:46 am
You know, Finland is a hopeless case! Racism is too deeply entrenched in the minds of most Finns, for anything to change soon. I certainly do not intend to spend all of my time here, fighting each and every day, against these racist thugs! This is why I need to get out of here !Life is too short for me to have to put up with racist bullshit on such a regular basis.
What type of a country , in the year 2009, allows a guest on their national tv station to use racist descriptions for black people, and not IMMEDIATELY admonish that person? Remember that white woman who looks like an overfed ape herself, calling Obama’s grandmother an ape/gorilla? That would not ever happen in Germany, which most people think is the most racist in Europe.The tv station only reacted after some people called for some form of action to be taken against this woman.
The problem with Finland is that it is so small and unknown on the world stage, that all of their racism is allowed to go unchecked by the international media.
Had the same comment been made in Germany, then it would be fodder for the international tv news stations.The fact that this racist man is getting all that support in Finland is testimony to the fact that Finland is truly a racist society. There are a few other racist countries in the world, but the difference is that Finland is proud to be racist. In the US(at least some parts of it) rednecks are looked down on. Here, the rednecks are the most admired and glorified members of society.
Have so much more to say, but feel that I have already spent too much of my time on racist people who do not want to see the error of their ways.
Comment by RegularGuy — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 7:57 am
Similarly, it is really very uninteresting as to whether Hallo-Aho *sometimes* says things that are not racist.
Exactly. He does say interesting things every now and again. But that’s not why he’s on trial. It’s the other shit.
Comment by Phil — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 8:21 am
“Racism is too deeply entrenched in the minds of most Finns”
That was a very racist comment. As a Finn, I am deeply offended. Should I sue you?
Why is it ok to say that kind of things for certain groups and not for other groups? That was the very point of Halla-aho’s writing. He took a sentence like that (which was offending Finns) and made it offend others, asking if it is legal to do so since it was legal to offend Finns. And apparently, it is not. I think everyone who does not see a problem here is, as Phil put it, a retard. Especially if that same person calls himself liberal.
Comment by Foobar — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 8:32 am
All of this stuff about “testing the law” is totally bizarre. Sure you can test the law whenever you want. I might try slapping a policeman in the face for example. But it seems very odd to complain that I was “just testing” when he arrests me. Why can’t you people just come out and say “I think the law is wrong”?
Comment by Rich — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 8:40 am
‘Why can’t you people just come out and say “I think the law is wrong”?’
Many probably have said that but no one listened.
If someone wants to explain the law, let’s take a sentence
[The] XXX are YYY.
Now let’s say that XXX can be one of { Finns, Americans, African-Americans, Turkish, Kenyans, Somalis, Africans, Chinese }.
And let’s say YYY can be one of { stupid, racist, intelligent, good runners, idiots, retard, drunks }.
Which combinations of XXX and YYY are racist and/or illegal?
Comment by Foobar — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 8:53 am
Remember that white woman who looks like an overfed ape herself, calling Obama’s grandmother an ape/gorilla?
Why did she get a pass?
Comment by Phil — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 9:02 am
Phil, I think what the mad old lady said was similarly disgusting, but I think the issue with incitement laws is that there needs to be fairly demonstrable intent to cause social division of some kind. That’s where (I believe) there is a pretty strong case against Halla-Aho, and but not really with the woman (who is just clearly not that bright).
Comment by Rich — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 9:21 am
“Robbing bypassers and living at taxpayers’ expense as a parasite is a national, possibly genetic characteristic of Somalis.”
Any politician saying this sort of shit in any of the important (and civilized) EU country would get him at the very least censored and likely fired.
How can you possibly excuse this kind of rhetoric ??????
Comment by mohammed — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 9:33 am
Let’s be thankful that so far it’s mostly just name calling, and that we don’t have female genital mutilation going on behind the scenes, or a return to the steady stream of rapes by dark-skinned folks in Kaisaniemenpuisto, or finnish gangs versus immigrant gangs going at it tooth-and-nail, or cops beating up immigrants, …
Comment by v.i.lenin — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 10:03 am
Ever hear of the king’s new clothes?
If Obama’s grandmother has very negroid nose resembling that of a gorilla then why is it “racist” to say so? Racist?
While a black stand-up comedian can go all night calling caucasian people “Quakers” and “Whiteys” and godknowswhat but at the very same time I’m not supposed to use the word “nigger”?
The whole court case – and the blog in question – is about freedom of speech and the equality of people. There are no groups, be it minority or majority, that should be “more equal” than the others. If you cannot comment islam then why the fuck can you comment christianity or atheism? If you cannot state facts about Somalis then why the fuck can you state them about the Finns?
Read the translated blog before you judge or label the man.
Anyone not enjoying their stay in Finland is very much free to leave, but do keep in mind that the Finnish people don’t hate anyone for just not being born here; they dislike people who will not integrate, won’t obey the laws, treat locals like shit, steal rob and rape, won’t work and produce tax revenue but instead take advantage of our wellfare system. Anyone coming here to work is very much welcome.
I’m very liberal and I have no problem seeing mr. Halla-Aho’s point. I am also liberal enough not to label people for speaking up for the freedom of speech.
Peace.
Comment by Henkka — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 10:16 am
Fil Shvartsman, in my opinion, you’re silly and illiterate fanatic and yes, a racist too toward Finns.
Comment by RandomReader — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 10:17 am
Teemu (councilman Teemu Lahtinen, by any chance?) wrote:
“Anyone who acknowledges or is aware of the burden that *mass* immigration from third world (especially muslim) countries to Europe has caused understands Halla-aho’s skepticism about immigration perfectly well, even though they might not agree with the wording that he occasionally uses.”
The issue is mainly that Halla-aho has very often inflated the potential future surge of asylum seekers in his writings. Speaking of “tens of thousands asylum seekers” simply does not resonate with reality. There’s no doubt that Halla-aho believes what he says, but the statistics don’t back him up.
In other words, he’s jumping the gun. The supposed overwhelming influx of Islamic people that he presumes to be just around the corner is a considerably less likely phenomenon that he supposes it to be. It’s more or less comparable to the past American beliefs of how the unchecked immigration from East Europe would turn New York City into “Jew York City”, or how the “Yellow Peril” would engulf the West Coast.
Basically, it’s scare tactics, and bad politics. Likewise, his “Scripta” is very much like a broken record. Keywords: Islam, rape, green-red Stalinism, rape, Islam, The Green Left, Islam, rape, immigration, rape, Islam, et cetera.
Criticizing the Finnish policy of immigration is well and good, a worthy task, but Halla-aho is really doing a disservice to rational discourse. But to be fair, I also think that the authorities who are now after him are doing additional, even worse damage. In a free country, he shouldn’t be charged, and he shouldn’t be standing trial.
“Is it racism to call for tougher policies on non-work-related immigration?”
No, although I’d replace “tougher” with “more effective”.
“Is it racism to note the fact that in reality, a large percentage of (European) muslims hold very fundamentalist world views?”
It’s probably not racism, but according to statistical evidence, it’s just plain wrong.
Approximately 4% of the European population confesses the Islamic faith. Of these Muslims, _four out of five_ are not religiously observant in any meaningful way. Of the remaining 20% (which may still be a “large percentage” depending on your point of view) probably less than a half hold “very fundamentalist worldviews”.
In short: Muslims are, by and large, becoming just as secular as the other Europeans. Yet for some odd reason, the so-called “Homma-forum” which is basically Halla-aho’s Fan Club, entertains notions that we really are at the Gates of Vienna, and that the European Civilization is on a downhill slope because the Muslims! will! soon! outbreed! us!
Their latest discovery is a controversial article from the “Daily Telegraph”, stating that Muslims will constitute 25% of the population in the EU by 2050. This has basically become an article of faith among the so-called Finnish “immigration critics”.
Yet at the same time, there are fresh demographic analysis from Max Planck Institute, stating that _if_ the current immigration and birth rates remain the same, the Muslim population in Europe just might rise to 10%… by 2109. And in the meantime, of course, the birth rates are falling even among the European Muslims.
As for racism, I wouldn’t apply that label to Halla-aho, but it’s a matter of record that he has certainly flirted with Tatu Vanhanen’s sociobiological surveys, stating that “in the World that we live in, the racial background correlates with success”. Considering that in the same paragraph of Scripta, he was citing the success of black sprinters as evidence, I’d think that it’s pretty obvious that he was using the term “race” as a biological concept.
Other than that, the foreign commentators are regretfully right. Casual salon racism exists in Finland among the upper echelons of society. Riitta Santavuori’s comments on Obama’s mother have already been mentioned, and as another example, one might mention the newspaper column by the former Green MP Rosa Meriläinen (you know, one of those “tolerant” people) in “Helsingin Sanomat” back in May. She told a thrilling story of her trip to Albania, commenting how the local people looked like retards, and how organized crime is part of the local culture. The last time that I read such comments on Albanians was in Serbian propaganda pamphlets during the Kosovo War. Yet for some odd reason, no one has called Meriläinen to take responsibility for her statements.
So yes, Halla-aho is perhaps nothing special. And he shouldn’t be on trial; citing the facts should be more than enough to prove the man wrong – in those cases when he is wrong, that is.
Cheers,
Jussi Jalonen
Comment by Jussi Jalonen — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 10:26 am
It is you who is the ignorant one here Phil. Quoting Halla-aho out of context (just like the prosecutor), when the whole point of his text was to show the double standard surrounding all this “hate speech” hysteria. It may not be easy, since most of his texts are not translated in english, but please do some research before you go apeshit with the racism-stamper like this. This post of yours basically confirms that the media has been successful in their campaign to defamy Halla-aho by outright twisting his words. I really expected better of you.
Comment by edv — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 10:43 am
The issue is: If stating “killing people while intoxicated is a national, possibly genetic characteristic of Finns.” is not xenophobia and racism; then why is stating something as offensibve about somalis is? thats double standards, man.
So as the claim is based on more facts, howcome that is racism when stating some shit about Finns isn’t?
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 10:53 am
#15: And now we have this lunatic talking about too many foreigners in Finnish universities and politechnics
Well you’re then living off KELA money so you don’t mind the expense in your taxes, eh? I don’t actually disagree on your evaluation of Hyssälä, she is addressing once again the effect and not the cause. Polytechnics get their funding for every student that starts school, not for every student that graduates. So its in their interest to get more and more students to keep their funding. If theres not enough interested locals, why that “free education” is a thing, not to mention a visa into schengen – and do the schools then care if the student buggers off to Europe as they still get the money?
*That* is the problem, not that there would be “too many foreigners” rather than the way the system awards funds.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 10:57 am
Jussi Jalonen (a green-red communist by any chance?) wrote:
Roosa Meriläinen
Yes and her kind are ruling our country. No wonder we’re going to hell in a handbasket.
BTW if you love Albania so much why don’t you go live there yourself.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 11:04 am
Off Jussi Halla-Aho’s blog, translated to a heathen language:
THE TRIAL
Today I stood trial in Helsinki district court. Prosecutor was Simo Kolehmainen and judge was Jussi Sipola.
Johan Bäckman has written quite good description of the proceedings, so I shall not go over that side myself. Everyone present wondered at the strong presence of State Prosecutor Mika Illman in the trial, even if he wasn’t physically present. Most of the questions the prosecutor asked from me were in one way or another about what I meant by saying this or that about Illman:
S.K: Why did you, in your essay “Few baits for Mika Illman” commented the punishment of Seppo Lehto, if you haven’t read all the papers relating to the case?
J.H: It is quite normal that people comment on things they are not experts on.
S.K: What do you mean when you, at the end of essay, wish Mika Illman “good day”?
J.H: I don’t wish to use the f-word, but this style can be called provocation.
In practice, Kolehmainen acted as the attorney of offended and provoked Illman. Formally Illman played no role in the process, but according to information I’ve received from police, he prodded them to examine everything I’ve written when it became clear that there was nothing in the crime report by Heli Järvinen (of Green Women) that would have been enough for even starting the judicial proceedings, let alone making a charge.
Most of the time different sides spoke of different things. Kolehmainen attempted to prove that my sentences were offensive. I didn’t dispute the offensiveness, but talked of my reasons for writing those sentences. According to Kolehmainen, my motive to offend was proved by amongst other things the fact that the sentences were bolded and I myself stated they were offensive. I asked of Kolehmainen that if he wished to present someone, would he include a statement “this is offensive”? Wouldn’t that kind of water down the whole insult? I also mentioned that the Dictionary of Modern Finnish includes the words “negro” and “nigger”, both bolded and referred to as offensive, and asked Kolehmainen if he thinks this proves that the dictionary uses the words “negro” and “nigger” with the intent to slander.
Kolehmainen presented the court with my essays “Comments about A-Talk show”, “My apologies” and “Shortly about the charge” as additional proof of my intent to offend. I did think this a little amusing since – had I remembered – I would have presented the very same essays as proofs for the defense. Kolehmainen caused a general burst of laughter by stating that he doesn’t think “My apologies” is a genuine apology.
It was also somewhat interesting that the proceedings were held in a tiny hall, even though considerable interest in the case was propably expected.
Media articles have been collected in the MediaWatch-blog. Ilta-Sanomat has again had little troubles in choosing its headlines. Possibly the reporter was angry, since there wasn’t room for him in the hall.
I thank everyone who came over from nearby and further away, and those that called and wrote during the day, for their support! Below is my own statement in text form. Translitteration of prosecutor’s statements should be finished in some time.
* * *
The foundation of my text is the newspaper Kaleva’s primary editorial from 20.5.2008. It included the following part:
“It is indisputable that Finland is one of West Europe’s most violent countries, and that it is inextricably related to alcohol use. Killing people while intoxicated is a national, maybe even genetic characteristic.”
Many people, myself included, thought that this kind of argument is not only absurd, but also highly offensive. The editorial was reported to “Council for Mass Media in Finland”, which however refused to do anything about it. The secretary of Council, Nina Porra, commented on the decision this way:
“Writer seems to refer to studies, where binge drinking has been found to be a special charasteristic of Finnish alcohol culture. Intoxication and violence has also been proved to be connected. The writer doesn’t present the genetic background as a fact, but simply as her own supposition.”
State Prosecutor’s Bureau also refused to take any action against newspaper Kaleva, even if crimes of incitement are part of its domain.
In order to prove that such arguments are highly offensive, I turned the newspaper Kaleva’s sentence into parody where “Finns” were replaced by “Somalis”. My hypothesis was that Somalis are under special protection of media and officials, and argument that is permissible to present about Finns becomes nonpermissible when it is about Somalis. My own version was as follows:
“Robbing passer-bys and living as parasites on tax money is the national, maybe even genetic charasteristic of Somalis.”
In order to make fun of “Council for Mass Media in Finland” I mentioned in the text that I present this argument as supposition, not as a fact. In addition I proved that by using crime statistics, the argument about Somalis can be proved equally well as Kaleva’s argument about Finns.
I emphasize that unlike the writer of newspaper Kaleva’s primary editorial, I didn’t present my own, offensive argument as my opinion, but I used it to criticise and insult double standards. Factually speaking, and considering the mechanisms of evolution, the mere thought of living as a parasite with tax funds or killing people while intoxicated being a genetic characteristic of some population is insane.
I note that the criminal law’s statute about incitement against national group doesn’t put different groups on inequal positions. It doesn’t state that it is permissible to slander one group, but not another. In addition, the sixth article of Finnish constitution states: “All people are equal before the law.” I interpret this as meaning that every ethnic group is also equal before the law. In my opinion the equality means that law doesn’t just equally restrict the behaviour of every people, but also protects everyone with equal force.
Therefore: Even if I had presented the argument about Somalis as an opinion and not as demonstrative material, raising charges about my argument of Somalis, but not newspaper Kaleva’s argument of Finns, is in conflict with the equality article of constitution. However, in this case this is irrelevant, since – as stated – the meaning to offense mentioned in the charge is lacking. This case is comparable to accusing the textbook on history of Nazi propaganda, since it demonstrates anti-Semitic arguments once presented by Nazis.
Another part mentioned in the charge is as follows:
“Prophet Muhammed was a pedophile and islam a religion that sanctifies pedophilia, therefore a pedophile religion.”
This sentence is related to discussion where I criticize the idea of the subjective offensiveness of some sentence being a sufficient criteria for its judicial offensiveness. In other words, if some group is offended by sentence X, sentence X is illegal irrespective of whether it is true or not. In my opinion, stating of facts cannot and must not be illegal, even if they offend someone. This is also a problem of equality. For example, a Muslim is offended by criticism of his religion far more easily than average Christian. If subjective offensiveness suffices as the criteria of crime, law protects Muslim with greater force than it protects Christian.
My sentences about Muhammed and Islam weren’t opinions, but inescapably logical conclusions based on known facts. I don’t use the word “pedophile” as psychopathological concept, but in its popular meaning of a person having sex with children. The traditional Muslim knowledge, hadith literature, tells that Muhammed had sex with his wife Aisha when she was nine years old. A nine year old is seen as a child today, and physically she was a child in 7th century, no matter what her judicial status was. Therefore, if Muhammed had sex with Aisha and Aisha was a child, Muhammed had sex with a child.
That Muhammed is a holy figure to Muslims cannot make him immune to criticism in West, especially if criticism is based on indisputed facts. In addition to being a holy figure to Muslims, he was also a historical person, warleader, politician and a demagogue, who must be a permissible target of criticism just like other important historical figures.
What does it mean that “Islam is a religion that sanctifies pedophilia, therefore a pedophile religion”? Muhammed’s way of life, or sunna, is in every respect exemplary according to Islam. I quote professor Jaakko Hämeen-Anttila’s Pocket Dictionary of Islam from year 2001:
“Sunna is a binding example for Muslims, and the responsibility of every pious Muslim is to follow the example of prophet Muhammed. Prophet Muhammed was [...] protected from errors (ma sum), so nothing in his behaviour was wrong or not intended by God.”
In addition, professor Hämeen-Anttila states in his Handbook of Islam from year 2004:
“During his life, Prophet didn’t act solely based on contemporary situation, but also keeping in mind the future. The details of Prophet’s life were meant to be imitated forever by Islamic community.”
Islam holds everything Muhammed did as exemplary and according to God’s will, including having sex with his child wife. Therefore it is justifiable to say that Islam sanctifies pedophilia. It must be noted that I am speaking of Islam as a doctrine, not of Muslims, most of whom do not live according to Islam’s demands. However, this is far more than a theoretical problem. Pedophiliac practices in Islamic world and the Muslim communities of West are justified precisely on prophet Muhammed’s example. I remind you that last winter the imam of Finland’s Islamic Community, Khodr Chehab, bragged in public about having wed 14-year old children into Islamic marriage, and thought that 11 years is suitable age of marriage for girls.
I refer here to some decisions made by State Prosecutor’s Bureau.
First is from March 2005. The subject was a newspaper article by a certain pastor, “White and Black Devil”, where according to Deputy State Prosecutor, pope and the holy institutions of Catholic and Orthodox churches were criticised harshly and occasionally mockingly. The text was studied as incitement against national group and disturbance of religious worship. Deputy State Prosecutor stated that there was no reason to suspect crime in the matter, and amongst other things, justified it as follows:
“The freedom of speech doesn’t merely cover such facts and thoughts that are gladly received, that are thought harmless or regarded without interest. Freedom of speech also covers such messages that offend, shock and disturb the state or some of its national groups.”
During year 2006, Suomen Sisu published on its internet pages the controversial Danish Muhammed cartoons. There was an investigation request and a preliminary investigation, but the process ended during the June of said year, when prosecutor Kalske made the decision to not raise charges. Kalske justified it like this:
“It cannot be thought that the suspects acted in order to offend the religious sensibilities of people that the law refers to. On the contrary I hold it credible that suspects meant to make a kind of objection against the public policy.”
My case and the case of Suomen Sisu are highly similar, though with the difference that in the case of my text, the lack of motivation to offend isn’t a matter of interpretation, but completely obvious from the context. The reason for presenting the sentences has been clearly spelled out, even in the title.
I point out that in the prosecution order, prosecutor Kalske has completely disregarded the explanation I gave during preliminary investigation about my motives. As I see it, he has violated his official responsibility to objectively consider the pros and cons of initiating the prosecution. It is the responsibility of prosecutor to justify why he thinks my argument about Islam and Muhammed has been presented in order to offend, and not as a protest against public policy, as I argue.
I’ll refer to still one decision of State Prosecutor’s Bureau, from January 2009. Religious community called Word and Praise had made a crime report about web site called Bloodgroup. On its front page it stated that “The intent of Bloodgroup is to insult Word and Praise Congregation and religion in general.” The report was about disturbance of religious worship. I quote some of Bloodgroup’s material:
“Christ. We’d fuck Christ. Jesus Christ was a faggot. What does Bible say about having sex with kids? It’s the only way to enjoy sex.”
According to prosecutor Kalske, there was no propable reason to suspect disturbance of religious worship.
As we see, the cases that have been quoted and their justifications are in roaring conflict with this prosecution. This is violating my right to equal treatment before the law, and is pure abuse of official power.
in the end I point out, that as much as my opinions have made reporters and politicians cry, the text “Few baits for Mika Illman” has received no attention whatsoever before this process. No one has been offended or incited, excluding prosecutor Kalske. This is because everyone who has read the essay has understood what it is about. That it is criticism pointed at media and officials. It is only prosecutor Kalske who has turned the comment about Somalis offensive by detaching it from its context. Detached from its context it is precisely as offensive as the newspaper Kaleva’s primary editorial which it parodied.
* * *
You propably guess what the deputy chairman of Finland’s PEN, freedom of speech specialist Jarkko Tontti, thinks about this. The excuses and the strawmen are approaching desperate level.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 11:21 am
Hank W. wrote:
“Jussi Jalonen (a green-red communist by any chance?)”
Nah, just an old-fashioned conservative who writes military history for living, mostly about Finnish jägers and Waffen-SS-volunteers.
Given my credentials, actual “green-red communists” – if there are such people – would probably stone me to death.
“BTW if you love Albania so much why don’t you go live there yourself.”
Been there, done that.
Cheers,
J. J.
Comment by Jussi Jalonen — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 11:52 am
Minister Liisa Hyssala is a racist Finn…she needs to go to court,and answer racist charges!
http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/08/social_affairs_minister_is_finland_educating_too_many_foreigners_954083.html
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:04 pm
Suomi has troops fighting a losing war in Afghanistan,brought to
Finland courtesy of***BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA***
The Irag and Afghan wars are now, a ***MASSIVE FAIL***
caused by ***BRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA*** failed middle east policies,
that show ***B.H.O.*** to be a racist!…Suomi needs to immediatly remove all troops from Irag and Afghanistan,or history will remember Finland as a racist genocidal country…ameriKKKa also needs to leave these hopeless countries NOW!
http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/08/katainen_warns_of_possible_afghanistan_casualties_953432.html
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:19 pm
#31 So I am still amiss why you want Finland to become a foreign country?
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:39 pm
#32…Hank I am not sure what you mean…could you please clarify?
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:44 pm
A short break from sordid politics,courtesy of good old Santa!
http://www.tomsgames.com/game-6846-play-santa-don-t-miss-else.php
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 12:55 pm
You totally don’t have a clue what this is all about, do you?
I suggest you read Halla-aho’s own comment on the case (if you know Finnish well enough to do so) and then get back on this:
http://www.halla-aho.com/scripta/oikeudenkaynti.html
Comment by Veikko Suvanto — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 1:19 pm
THANK YOU PHIL!!!
You opened the shit basket full of realy white apes for the rest of the world to see. Finns are not only racists, they hate EVERY foreigner! Do you know why? Because:
a) those, who traveled a bit they envy the better off societies and are full of complexes
b) the others sitting in the bushes of Kauhava etc.they know shit nothing about other countries, only belive what their stupid communist media tells them (call it ignorance).
Small gnoms with ugly faces and tiny brains plus total lack of self-confidence.
Comment by Misio — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 1:46 pm
I kinda have questions for you guys… These may be a bit naive, but please bear with me; I’d really like someone liberal’s or foreigner’s answer.
1. Why is it OK to call Finns racist lunatics, Americans inbred hillbilly mass murderers, Germans, well let’s not go there, but it’s not OK to call somalis layabouts or islam an outdated, idiotic religion? Isn’t what you guys are saying here about Finns ‘creating social division’? My first guess is it’s got something to do with us being mostly white, reasonably well off and not easily provoked to violence, but I could be wrong.
2. Why should Finland continue to provide free university education to people from around the world, while we ourselves pay for every exchange student we send abroad and teachers struggle under the already strained system? Should we not expect some kind of reciprocal favours or at least tuition fees? Are you furriners really that invaluable to us poor yokels? I mean, call me lunatic here, but since most of foreign students either perform poorly (or not at all and run off to some other Schengen country after gettins visas) or return to their home countries after graduating, I somehow feel Finland is doing to the disenfranchised of the world what Mother Teresa was doing to the orphans. Is that really our duty?
Thanks for answers!
Comment by FinnGuy — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
#35 If “multiculturalism” ia a goal achieved by uninhibited immigration with peoples bringing their own values and laws; then that means Finland will loose its own culture and laws and become a foreign country. I rather live in Finland – if I want to live in a foreign country I go there.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
#37 “Finns are not only racists, they hate EVERY foreigner! Do you know why? Because:”
I know they hate you because you are stupid. I think you’re just envious of the rest.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 1:57 pm
Misio wrote of Finns: “Small gnoms with ugly faces and tiny brains plus total lack of self-confidence.”
You are yourself a Finn-hating racist. I suggest you move away from Finland, since obviously you don’t like us and we don’t like you.
Comment by Jaska — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 1:58 pm
Hey, let’s be honest about this , and stop your freaky analysis: Foreigners in Finland are not desired, both the good ones and the worst, this is a fact!
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 2:16 pm
Finland’s infamous Finn-hater immigrant Phil Schwarzmann is absolutely right: Ignorant people should be ignored.
Outta here.
Comment by Jukka Turunen — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
#48, yeah that’s right, but the point is that “Who is the ignorant? You or he?”
You see , the same cultural debate again and again…which turn to a racist debate indeed.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 2:42 pm
Guys, hello? Still waiting for answers to comment 43.
Thanks!
Comment by FinnGuy — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 3:17 pm
Hey Phil, you got quite a three-ring circus here !
Comment by v.i.lenin — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 3:53 pm
Hank W. I generally agree with,and appreciate your your many postings and articles on this blog…But calling me stupid because you fail to understand my political satire is unfortunate..
BUT I do remember the times in the past,that you and***PUNTER***
(god bless his heart) called me a racist..AND a ***NAZI***!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 4:10 pm
It is you who is the ignorant one here Phil. Quoting Halla-aho out of context (just like the prosecutor), when the whole point of his text was to show the double standard surrounding all this “hate speech” hysteria
Fair enough, I’ve included the previous paragraph. That whole, “XYZ people commit a disproportionate amount of crimes” shit is such rubbish, we’ve heard that in the states for years.
Honestly I hope the guy gets off, it’s free speech. It seems that if you say insane things, it’s okay. But if you get a little following, then they get you.
Comment by Phil — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
# 50…FinnGuy…I totally agree with your assessment of the
attempts of Suomi to become a multi-culti paradise at the expense of Suomi culture and native Finns…
Hank W. I am a 100% proud Finnish American,who supports the Finns
who stand to defend Suomi culture, history,and traditions against
foreign interlopers who want to dilute and attack the last cultural
nation state in rapidly developing ***EURABIA***.
This statement is my true belief,not political satire..
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 4:24 pm
No 43 “My first guess is it’s got something to do with us being mostly white, reasonably well off and not easily provoked to violence, but I could be wrong.”
Really. Is that why Finns have a reputation in the rest of the Nordic countries, as being those drunken lunatics who walk around with knives in their pockets. Let us not even focus on what the rest of the Nordic countries think of Finland: statistics will do all the talking. According to recent stats, the murder rate in Finland is as high as in the poorest, most violent African countries. Do you still call Finns “not easily provoked to violence?”
As to your point about Finland providing free university education to foreigners. Well Finland is not the first country to do so.But I will have to agree with you on that point: Finland can, and should stop the free education to foreigners, or at least place a qouta on the number of foreigners allowed to study there.Alternatively, the foreigners can be made to pay a small tuition fee, as obtains in the rest of Europe.
It makes my blood boil, when I read of the number of students from a certain country in Africa, who come here with fraudulent school certificates. It really irks me. I am from a country which is not very corrupt. We actually placed quite highly in the recently least corrupt countries in the world list. So, I hate it when people come here and try to enter schools with false papers. I hate it, because it just makes life that much harder for all other black people. Soon, the Finns will start looking at every black person as a corrupt person, and I do not have one corrupt bone in my body!
But, as to your comment about Finns not being violent: think again honey!
I am black, and also an immigrant. Do not ever forget that.
Comment by RegularGuy — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 4:26 pm
Yeah, but RegularGuy, how many demonstrations and äbäläwäbälä do you see in Finland? Did we go torch the Italian embassy when Berlisconi dissed Finnish food?
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
Mr. Halla-Aho seems to write alot about why cultural differencies cannot be discussed equally. It is common sense in Finland that others can freely say nearly anything as long as it is about Finns. It is true that Halla-Aho uses very provocative language and what you quoted on this post was something that Halla-Aho did write. BUT why on earth did you take it out of the context? The purpouse of Halla-Aho’s “infamous” blog post was to bring up the fact, that you can do generic assumptions about finns every time. Halla-Aho used the exact logic (“Finnish men occasionaly kills others while drunk” => “Finnish men have a genetic flaw which makes them to kill people”).
Comment by Jani — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 4:42 pm
Phil: “That whole, ‘XYZ people commit a disproportionate amount of crimes’ shit is such rubbish, we’ve heard that in the states for years.”
Care to provide a source for the statement that the “shit” in question is “such rubbish”? Or are we just to take your word for it?
Comment by Veikko Suvanto — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 6:35 pm
JJ: (councilman Teemu Lahtinen, by any chance?)
Nope, I didn’t do it.
Comment by Teemu Lahtinen — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 6:44 pm
Phil, I would say (After reading your blog)that you are racist…And also you are typical yank(Shoot first, then ask…very stupid method to keep blog).
I have travel a lot and I have never seen so racist society as United State is.
United State is like Soviet union(Russia), same shit on differnt package and this same shit can be found from your blog.
Phil, you are adult and can not see difference between shit and shinola?
And if this country is so therible, why you still are here…World is open for you?
http://myfxadvice.com foreign exchange market
Comment by Odysseas — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 7:23 pm
Fact #1. Immigrants who are ‘colored’ are discriminated against.
Fact#2. Finland is not a multi-cultural country and will never be ‘multi-cultural’.
Fact#3. In Finland there is freedom of speech but not ‘freedom of hate speech’.
Fact#4. Finnish people like peace. Hallo-Aho is disturbing the peace.
Fact#5. Finnish people like following the rules. Hallo-Aho is not following the rules.
Fact#6. The goal for Finnish authorities is to have immigrants ‘integrate’ into Finnish society.To have Finnish children.
Fact#7. Whatever their cultural background Finnish born children of parents born in another country have equal rights and cannot be discriminated against or provoked or have their ‘peace disturbed’.
So let’s get over this stupid guy who writes his blog from his cellar. He is not really representative of the majority of Finnish people. The majority of whom want to get on peacefully with their neighbors.
Comment by Andy Campbell — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 7:47 pm
#59 Phil left AmeriKKKa, a racist country,according to
***BARRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA***,who is himself a racist…
Phil came to Suomi,which most all on this blog agree is a very racist
country….SOOoo this blog is a racist blog and Phil is a racist lacky.
I know this to be true because I am a racist Finnish-American because of my blonde hair and blue eyes…Us racists are everywhere and can not hide from each others racist agendas…Phil,by running this blog is stirring up racism!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 7:48 pm
Racism is as racism does…a box of white chocolates are racist….Red fire ants are racist…Finnish polar bears are racist because they will not hang out with brown ***KARHU***….My computer is a racist tool….AAAHHHHCH!!!….Enough racism already, OK!
Time for a new topic to rant about…Let us all start to rant about BIGOTRY!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 8:16 pm
“Really. Is that why Finns have a reputation in the rest of the Nordic countries, as being those drunken lunatics who walk around with knives in their pockets. Let us not even focus on what the rest of the Nordic countries think of Finland: statistics will do all the talking. According to recent stats, the murder rate in Finland is as high as in the poorest, most violent African countries.”
Swedes have a reputation in Finland of being homosexual, stuck-up racists. Swedes have discriminated against Finns for centuries, incl. negative racial classifications and language oppression. Even today, in some places in Sweden it is not ALLOWED for two workers sharing a task to discuss between themselves in Finnish (one such incident was reported only this year)! Trust me, Swedes are way more racist against Finns (drunken mongols, sloping forehead, ugly language) than Finns against any recent immigrants.
Statistics might actually back this up (at least the homosexual and racism part – I’m sure in Sweden there are proportaonally a lot more “registered” gays and reported racial crime than in Finland). Does this make it so?
As for the violent crime statistics, the differences between Nordic countries are not significant, at least from what I’ve seen. Sweden seems to score lower in this department than other Nordic countries.
And as for Africa, I don’t know if there are reliable crime statistics from most African countries, except perhaps from South Africa. And SA is the most violent country in the world.
“Do you still call Finns “not easily provoked to violence?”
Yes? How many times you’ve been mugged in Finland?
But this is all beside the point. The question is not whether Finns are, in fact, knife-wielding drunken lunatics, but why is it alright to say that (as you did), but not acceptable to call e.g. Rwandans machete-wielding maniacs high on drugs.
And to this question, honey, I still haven’t received a response.
Comment by FinnGuy — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 8:26 pm
#54: infinndel the jenkki dog:
“# 50…FinnGuy…I totally agree with your assessment of the
attempts of Suomi to become a multi-culti paradise at the expense of Suomi culture and native Finns…”
I don’t think I made any statements about “multi-cultural paradises.” I don’t have a problem with multiculturalism if it’s rational & practiceable – what country isn’t multicultural!!
I was just wondering about free speech and how it’s understood in Finland, as well as whether or not the current more than charitable foreigners’ education practices are sensible. It seems to me, that the official agenda once again is too “vieraskorea” – we seem to care more about immigrants/foreign exchange students and whether or not some Finn offended them (or whether we’re not paying them enough student fees!) than Finnish citizens. And the last group, BTW, includes more and more people who have from some place else each year.
Comment by FinnGuy — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 8:47 pm
FinnGuy,
“And to this question, honey, I still haven’t received a response.”
Really, it doesn’t get a lot more complex than this. Minority rights are created to protect groups who are in an inherently weaker or more vulnerable societal position. White Finnish males may well complain about marginal restrictions on their rights, or offense to their persons, but their generalised societal position is vastly more secure and privileged than that of most immigrant groups (this will doubtless be disputed, but the arguments will be extremely boring).
As such, is seems reasonable to argue that said Finns would require less strident protection by the law. You may well say that this is a double standards. Well done, it is. It’s designed that way. And before this becomes some childish questions of absolute ‘fairness’ consider this. If it is complete equality you are after there are two options
a) No-one can cause serious offense to *any* societal group, ever. The legal, as well as societal ramifications of enforcing this would be almost unimaginable.
or
b) No societal group, no matter how victimised or vulnerable, should be protected from stigmatisation and slander. This is the agenda which the likes of Halla-Aho are pursuing, but too cowardly to admit. It is also a policy which has facilitated, and propagated some of the most horrific acts of minority oppression of the last centuries. I’d prefer we didn’t resurrect it.
Comment by Rich — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 8:57 pm
“Really, it doesn’t get a lot more complex than this. Minority rights are created to protect groups who are in an inherently weaker or more vulnerable societal position.”
Yes, I kind of understand this majority/minority logic – also the logic that it’s OK to slander your own group. Finns can bash Finns and Somalis Somalis all they want, I suppose. At least, this is what I think some of the reasoning behind the current issue is.
But it IS a bit more complex than that. Do you actually believe, that granting the right to offend white Finnish heterosexual males all you want, while giving EVERY (yes, count’em
) other population group protection against the same slander, is something the free & hate speech legislation was created for? It is a double standard, as you say, but unlike you I find it problematic and not conducive to harmonious ethnic relations. There should be some absolutes, no matter how “childish” this is. How this could be arranged, well, that’s what I’m wondering here…
The bigger question is religion. I really cannot understand why Islam, out of all the religions in the world, should be so protected. There are probably more muslims than Laestadians (google it) in Finland, but you can be sure no-one in public Finland gives a crap if you start bashing laestadians as dim-witted baby-rearing machines. In fact, it’s already been done numerous times… So, why special protection for Islam?
Also, what are your views on foreign exchange students? Are we Finns racists (as has already been claimed), if we start limiting the amount of free university places for foreigners?
Comment by FinnGuy — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 9:13 pm
To Andy Campbell
“Fact #1. Immigrants who are ‘colored’ are discriminated against.”
Sure, if they like to keep own culture,cannot read,cannot write and are thinking that peoles in Finland must pay their living costs…This counry is not red cross or big disco.
“Fact#2. Finland is not a multi-cultural country and will never be ‘multi-cultural’.”
Wrong again, Finland has been “Multiculture” hundreds of years, even more…First we had some intergration with vikings and balts,later with se swedish,normen and russians.
This counry is in fact more “Working multiculture” than exsample USA or UK because we have so many different nations intergraded very well….This is something that others dont have, they are having just ghettos and you are proud of these…Holy shit!
What kind muliticulture-heaven is Harlem? Malmö?
“Fact#3. In Finland there is freedom of speech but not ‘freedom of hate speech’.”
Wrong.
Here is some idealists who are thinking that only they are having the “knowledge of secret thuth” and every one who dont act like tehy wish, are facists,skinheads etc.
Same peoples are saying that cows can fly if we just want.
“Fact#4. Finnish people like peace. Hallo-Aho is disturbing the peace.”
Right and wrong.
In fact Halla-aho is waking up peoples that we are loosing the peace.
“Fact#5. Finnish people like following the rules. Hallo-Aho is not following the rules.”
Right and wrong.
Some peoples like to change the rules and 95 % of citizens dont like this change to come and thats why Halla-aho is man on right position.
“Fact#6. The goal for Finnish authorities is to have immigrants ‘integrate’ into Finnish society.To have Finnish children.”
Thats the vision but nobody dont have plans how to do it, now this nation is just like “Log in the rapid” and result is finally something like Malmö.
Well Andy…Malmö is also in your dreams?
Comment by Odysseas — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 9:20 pm
…sorry, continued. We should not forget, that while white Finnish males seem to be in position of power, practically all the dropouts of society, the really desperate ones, homeless, alcoholics, mentally ill, unemployed etc., the least cared for part of the Finnish society, are white Finnish males also.
So this is another part of problem. If you’re saying white Finnish males don’t deserve protection because they’re so well off, you’re also saying this 50-year homeless alcoholic Reiska in his wet carton box on the street, in the rain.
But that, I suppose, is their own fault, not society’s…?
Comment by FinnGuy — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
If Halla-aho loses this case, it just proves, what Jyrki Lehtola writes about in every other of his columns. The nation has turned into infantiles and cry-babies who, when feeling offended, simply can’t settle for a damn letter to the editor or another kind of expression of well-based, differing opinion. Noo, they cry mommy in form of the police and justice system. Not necessarily an unfamiliar stunt for Halla-aho too, but for him the motivation seems to be more about demonstrating reductio ad absurdum by following the playground rules, instead of forcing the opponents to shut up.
It remains to be seen, if mom…der reichsprokurator is equally alert, when, say, Mmes. Moilanen or Saarikoski assume their usual colourful routine of man- and heterosexual bashing. They seem to be quite incompatible with the prokurator’s notion of free speech, according to which you can say anything, if you don’t say it out loud. Hopefully, the real freedom of speech prevails instead some watered-down flowerhat version.
Comment by Antti rn — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 9:44 pm
Phil:
***Ughh. This is where I quickly lose sympathy for the guy. Ignorant people like Halla-Aho should be ignored, yet court cases like these only further incite racial hatred in the country and bring more members to the True Finns party.***
Halleluja !
Phil:
*** I think Halla-Aho is a racist retard. But if that were a crime, half the country would be in prison.***
Halleluja !
Regular Guy :
***You know, Finland is a hopeless case! Racism is too deeply entrenched in the minds of most Finns, for anything to change soon. I certainly do not intend to spend all of my time here, fighting each and every day, against these racist thugs!***
Praise the Lord !
Rich:
***Minority rights are created to protect groups who are in an inherently weaker or more vulnerable societal position.***
Prai-i-i-i-se the Lord !
Comment by M.K.Korpela — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 10:51 pm
Phil.
Seems you have no idea what is going on in Finland. I think you just do not know enough finnish language being able to judge what native finnish actually writing. You just can not catch sarcasm or irony, you basically are on the same level where six-years old finnish kid is.
May I guess: You have a stupid finnish wife or girlfriend who just wants to hang with you because you speak english. Just to keep her happy you have to write about topics she wants you to write.
Where are your balls man ?
Comment by Maailmanmies — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 11:08 pm
Well, it’s late at night and I don’t know, but it seems to me that the way for actual discussion is not comments about multicultural paradises, anglos banging Finnish girls or Finnish being drunken puukko idiots (who somehow all are, at the end of the day, deciding the nation’s policies). I’d like some considered comments about free speech in Finland; as well as some of our policies concerning gvt attitudes to foreign exchange students and immigrants in general (is it all icon worship or what?).
Comment by FinnGuy — Wed, Aug 26th, 2009 @ 11:42 pm
So you are really are too stupid to distinguish intellectual argument from racism? Its this stupidity halla-aho is against and why so many people are for him.
Comment by philtard — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 12:30 am
Wow, I know Americans have trouble with racism as most of you don\’t even have a definition for it (hey, what a coincidence! If I can\’t define it, it can be ANYTHING!) but could you please stop for a moment and pull your head out of your ass?
Yeah, looks like an offensive comment, but you might see the small grain of truth in it some day. Hats off, when you do.
Have a good day.
Comment by anonymous — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 1:05 am
Well done, Phil.
This thread would deserve a part II.
It shows some subtle attitudes of the many racists around.
Comment by x — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 1:30 am
Hallo-Aho should not be prosecuted for what he said, or what they claim he said. Based on what the court case is about, you can not say he is a racist, but it is still likely that he is, if you read what else he has to say. But if people do not like what he has to say or write, then ignore him. My problem is with others, his following, who do cross the line and are encouraged after hearing what H-A is stating, to start call the local pizza guy “mudface” instead of foreigner, or what would be best, the pizza guy.
Many people simply can’t make the difference between discussing a possible problem with cultural friction and pointing the finger (or worse) at individual, anonymous foreigners. This is not a typical Finnish treat. Stupidity is universal.
Comment by majava — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 6:49 am
You just can not catch sarcasm or irony, you basically are on the same level where six-years old finnish kid is.
You’re insulting six-year old Finnish kids there.
Where are your balls man ?
I just don’t care about politics anymore. For a couple years I feel burnt out when it comes to politics. Let it burn for all I care. This blog ain’t what it used to be.
May I guess: You have a stupid finnish wife or girlfriend who just wants to hang with you because you speak english. Just to keep her happy you have to write about topics she wants you to write.
May I guess: you’re retarded
Comment by Phil — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 7:43 am
Six year olds tell you the truth. Comparing me to a six year old Finnish kid would be a compliment! “Maailmanmies” can’t take it that Finnish girls are not interested in him. Not a surprise, if he asks about Phil’s balls!
Comment by majava — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 8:22 am
Maailmanmies: “You just can not catch sarcasm or irony, you basically are on the same level where six-years old finnish kid is.”
Phil: “You’re insulting six-year old Finnish kids there.”
How true. The average Finnish six-year old kid’s understanding of sarcasm and irony is considerably higher than Phil’s is.
Comment by Veikko Suvanto — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 9:04 am
I am posting this video of Somali refugees humiliating a gay man in Minneapolis, USA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfW9inRkTpU
Many refugees and immigrants from Africa, Middle East, India, and Pakistan are quite prejudice too !
Comment by sally — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 9:10 am
When I read the idiots like Hunk, Jaska, infidel yunki punki I understand why NOBODY likes Finns.
Primitives with bvrains placed below their belts.
Finns – you have a million years ahead to follow other EU countries. Right now you are protecting your swamps from the foreigners who are here mostly not of their own wish. Did Somalis choose your fucking forestland to come here or were they sent here? I would compare it to being deported to Siberian lagers or Nazi camps.
You want them to work and pay taxes? Well, fucking allow them to work!
Comment by Misio — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 9:59 am
x:
***Well done, Phil.
This thread would deserve a part II.
It shows some subtle attitudes of the many racists around.***
Prai-i-i-se the Lord !
Comment by M.K.Korpela — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 10:50 am
“Really. Is that why Finns have a reputation in the rest of the Nordic countries, as being those drunken lunatics who walk around with knives in their pockets. Let us not even focus on what the rest of the Nordic countries think of Finland: statistics will do all the talking. According to recent stats, the murder rate in Finland is as high as in the poorest, most violent African countries. Do you still call Finns “not easily provoked to violence?””
I don’t want to deploy an ad hominem argument but I originally felt like it. Each Nordic country has their own prejudices against their neighbours, as it has always been in every society in the world and will be as long as man walks the earth.
But where on heaven’s sake did you get the idea that Finland has a high murder rate comparatively to any African country (except for the small island states)? Public governing has collapsed in most of sub-saharan Africa, and statistics are simply not available. When they are (estimates from Somalia, Zambia, Zim or actual statistics from SA) they far exceed Finland by several orders of magnitude. Not counting causes of death like “civil war” or “ethnic strife” where international organizations can at most make guesstimates. Finland is rather close to UK currently in murders per capita. Not Angola.
In Finland, if you seek to be a homicide victim, according to the police, you must be a middle-aged alcoholic, heavily under the influence, in a private apartment with other alcoholics, most of whom are known by the police, and get into a drunken argument about the weather with a kitchen knife at hand. Finland has those kind of homicides more often than other Nordic countries, true. Your average taxpayer can avoid this by not becoming an unemployed alcoholic and even if that does happen, not get drunk in private apartments by other alcoholics with criminal records 365 days a year for 10 years.
Random killings of previously unknown persons are extremely rare, and nearly always committed by men who have killed or tried to kill in the past and who have been released from prison. This type of violence is about as common in all Nordic countries. A third type of Finnish violence resulting in death is murder-suicides by economically desperate adults who take their spouse and children with them. School killings, of which there have been two to date, cannot be any means be called a common occurrence, though indicative of a society that suffers mentally (show me one that doesn’t have it’s own pathologies).
Also I might add this blog seems to have a lot of people who are very racist and prejudiced towards Finns.
I find it difficult to understand the mental processes of a person who apparently elevates him or herself above Finnish racism and prejudice and attempts to justify this by being prejudiced and racist towards Finns.
Anyway “racist” is a word used too easily today, but whenever real racists, i.e. people who think less of others because of their ethnicity, not because of their conduct, are beyond contempt. Here we have some who would judge all Finns and the whole society with ease, while comparing the country to the most chronically suffering failed states the globe has seen. Good job on showing them evil, racist Finns your good quality and meritorious, non-judgemental and rational attitude towards fellow humans.
Comment by Bart — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 12:29 pm
@ 20 RegularGuy: You write, that Halla-Aho’s “popularity” proves that Finland is a racist society. You seem to forget that Halla-Aho is not that popular at all. In the Helsinki communal election he received only around one percent of all votes. Nearly 99% of voters voted for someone else.
Halla-aho is quite an insignificant blogger, who has a small cult of followers. The media attention he receives from mainstream media and from bloggers like Phil seems to be a little disproportionate compared to his actual support.
Comment by Aldan — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 12:40 pm
***Halla-aho is quite an insignificant blogger, who has a small cult of followers. The media attention he receives from mainstream media and from bloggers like Phil seems to be a little disproportionate compared to his actual support.***
Some sense to this farce – Halla-Aho is indeed a microskopic player in political scene.
Right as well , by racist-scale 0….10 , 0 equaling zero , 2 a fart and 10 equaling a fully developed nazist asshole , to give Halla-Aho rating above 2 is ridiculous. As a racist Halla-Aho is a fart , at best.
If even that. There is a saying in Finnish language , which says “a barking dog does not bite.”
By that I mean that somebody saying either racist or suspicious comments (barking) may not after all be that dangerous. More dangerous person can very well be someone , who inspite of PC-approved language would never let a black applicant througt the glass ceiling.
The subtile but clever racism with PC-approved language is a lot more dangerous fenomena. American blue states are PC , but be so sure there’s a glass ceiling for a black applicant in New York inspite of all the PC rhetorics.
Phil , if anyone , should know this ?
Comment by M.K.Korpela — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 2:44 pm
If even that. There is a saying in Finnish language , which says “a barking dog does not bite.”
Say that to all the murdered Jews about Hitler’s speeches.
Comment by same — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 2:53 pm
Sorry Phil, for confusing you with some other bloggers in my earlier post. Obvioulsy you are not giving Halla-Aho too much attention since this seems to be your first article on him.
@ 80: Halla-Aho might not be that racist, but he sure is xenophobic and especially islamophobic. Using your scaling system, I would give him a rating of 6 out of 10 on xenophobia and a full 10 out of 10 on islamophobia.
Comment by Aldan — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 4:51 pm
Don’t call someone racist if you don’t even know what the hell YOU are talking about.
Comment by lmao — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 5:47 pm
Teemu:
“People need to stop clinging on the most controversial statements Halla-aho has made and try look at his writings with an open mind.”
In criticism of Islam, people are usually not very interested in the nice and mellow passages of the Qur’an, for example. They tend to focus on the controversial ones. The good doctor himself is no exception. However, in reviewing his writings we should apparently focus on his travels with his family.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 7:10 pm
“Say that to all the murdered Jews about Hitler’s speeches.”
You lose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
Comment by Jaska — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 9:27 pm
#85:
From your link:
“Those policies advocated by Hitler and his party which are generally considered evil are condemned in and of themselves, not because Hitler supported them. In other words, genocide and race supremacism, as two examples, are considered evil on their own merits,”
Try again.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 9:40 pm
“Those policies advocated by Hitler and his party which are generally considered evil are condemned in and of themselves, not because Hitler supported them. In other words, genocide and race supremacism, as two examples, are considered evil on their own merits,”
What was your point? My point was that the comment by “same”, which indirectly compared Halla-aho with Hitler, was low and does not belong in a civil debate.
Comment by Jaska — Thu, Aug 27th, 2009 @ 10:20 pm
@82:
***10 out of 10 on islamophobia.***
Oh jeez. You are still in that crap ? Not even Sweden , the Vatican of PC is not with that crap anymore.
Phd Aje Carlbom puts it this way:
*** Islamisterna i Europa har hållit en låg profil i ideologiska frågor och kunnat dölja sig bakom mångkulturalistiska idéer om “respekt” och “tolerans” för det kulturellt och religiöst annorlunda. Ordet “islamofobi” är ett ypperligt vapen för den här gruppen.***
=>
***The islamists in Europe have held a low profile in ideological questions and have been able to hide behind multicultural ideas of “respect” and “tolerance” for the culturally and religiously different. The word “islamophobia” is an outstanding weapon for this group.***
http://www.newsmill.se/artikel/2009/07/23/islamisterna-ar-en-sjalvklar-del-av-det-svenska-samhallet
So dude , the PC Vatican Sweden has given up the crap that is “islamophobia”. There can impossibly be anything more PC on this planet than Sweden and Sweden is the incarnation of PC. The definitions given from SWE are the official PC by their own right. I suppose you advice the Pope too concerning the catholism , right`?
Comment by M.K.Korpela — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 12:20 am
I’m surprised by all the racism presented by foreigners living in Finland. Makes you think what keeps you in a country you hate so much..
Comment by Time to look in the mirror — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 1:41 am
Did you not check the precursors for this event? Did you not find out a thing about this person nor his writings? Did you do a thing but read a paper you foolishly believe without holding any doubt about their credibility?
Yeah you obviously did not, good luck with a journalist career.
You really want to come up to me and tell me what is best for MY homeland? You want to “guide” me how to live in my homeland?
Have you got the guts to come here and tell me how these immigrants are “enriching” my life? Or more precise have you got the guts to see the “lost suburbs” of enriched culture up close?
What right do you have to tell us how we should live and manage our society?
With greetings; “Hate grows for an idea when given or shown a reason”
Comment by Ostrobothnia — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 2:04 am
“In criticism of Islam, people are usually not very interested in the nice and mellow passages of the Qur’an, ”
Yeah, that’s true. Recently nobody has noticed that the world largest banks has adopted the Islamic Financial Instruments to break the current economy downturn.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 2:32 am
Racism is alive and well in Finnish schools
Researcher Anna Rastas of Tampere University is not surprised at the racist attitudes among teachers.“I train many teachers, and I have met attitudes, actions, and manners of speech, which I feel were racist”, Rastas says.
http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/08/yle_survey_teachers_sometimes_display_racism_958795.html
So all you fuckheads can stick you head in the sand and pretend that it doesn’t exist, just like Halla- Aho and that other woman from the ministry of education who complained recently that we were educating too many foreigners
Comment by chich sheik — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 5:56 am
“Many immigrant children perceive aspects of teachers’ behaviour to be racist, even when no such intention is involved.”
Yes and many Finnish students also perceive teachers’ behavior to be unfair, too. Boys think that girls are favored, someone is thought to be teacher’s pet etc. Yes, there can of course be some racist attitudes too but I would have liked to get more examples of what exactly they mean.
“Abdirahman says that immigrant children are often blamed first in cases of bullying.”
What does “often” mean here? Are they blamed more often than they actually bully, compared to non-immigrants? That could be considered racist, not just the fact that they are “often” blamed.
“Aho and that other woman from the ministry of education who complained recently that we were educating too many foreigners”
You completely missed the point there again. How many foreigners should Finland educate for free? I don’t know a good answer and I don’t if there are nowadays too few or too many foreign students but you can’t just keep calling everyone racist if they want to discuss about where the money is put. Finland is going to take huge amounts of new debt in the coming years and it needs to be evaluated where all the money goes. By the way, are “foreigners” a racial group?
Comment by Foobar — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 8:09 am
Jaska, you must be dumb not to understand the meaning of this comparison.
Some dumb ass writes that Halla-Aho’s barking is just innocent barking.
I give you example that when Hitler started his iideology barking, that was innocent too. Until 1939. Whe enough nazis found that barking interesting and stimulating.
Spreading hate towards others is NEVER innocent.
Comment by same — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 8:17 am
“You completely missed the point there again. How many foreigners should Finland educate for free?”
As many as you idiots give them the right to live here.
Finland has obligation as UN country to accept some amount of asylum seekers – same as other UN members.
So, shut up about being so abused, you poor taxpayers. You have educated for free enough your own loosers that sit now outside those SIWA shops or kapakkat and hardly recognize day from night. You pay for their booze too.
Anyway, I think that Finns are swines to a huge extent to talk about immigrant using their land for free. These people came here because of war in their place. Not because one day they walked up and decided they hate own country, people, relatives and will move to bloody cold and strange place. Taking their families with them.
If you can’t understand that then you are retarded as Phil wrote.
I suggest that Sweden sends you a bill for all those Finnish kids they took for FREE for many years (fed and educated them too) during WWII.
Or should they have turned their backs on them and say: keep your own bastards, we won’t support them with our tax money?
Not to mention all the financial aid you got from UN after WWII.
Fucking short memory you Finns have.
Comment by same — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 8:26 am
“As many as you idiots give them the right to live here.
Finland has obligation as UN country to accept some amount of asylum seekers – same as other UN members.”
I was not talking about asylum seekers. It was a question of Finland giving free higher education to foreigners who are no asylum seekers.
Thanks for misunderstanding everything and calling me a pig, that was very classy. I now understand what a racist I am.
Comment by Foobar — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 8:35 am
“I suggest that Sweden sends you a bill for all those Finnish kids they took for FREE for many years (fed and educated them too) during WWII.
Or should they have turned their backs on them and say: keep your own bastards, we won’t support them with our tax money?
Not to mention all the financial aid you got from UN after WWII.
Fucking short memory you Finns have.”
Jesus Christ!! You’re a moron!!!
Comment by FinnGuy — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 9:36 am
I wonder why Phil deleted my post about racism aimed at Finns?
Does he believe only Finns are racist? Who knows!
Comment by Bart — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 9:48 am
So FinnGuy (and probably gay) has only this much to answer to that. How typical – you show them the other end of stick and they can only call you names.
Have the Swedes or have they not took thousands of Finnish kids under their care and for free?
Foobar: you are pigs if you support even one word this retard Halla-Aho spreads. Next you may start building ghettos for Somalis.
Comment by same — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 9:57 am
So, how would we all feel about Finland babes marrying furriners and then wearing burkas ?
Comment by v.i.lenin — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 9:59 am
Foobar:
“I was not talking about asylum seekers. It was a question of Finland giving free higher education to foreigners who are no asylum seekers.”
More to the point, the issue is with the tendency of “universities” of applied sciences or polytechnics (AMK) scooping up students from wherever with little regard as to whether they graduate or even show up, as they receive their funding based on the number of starting students. Many of these “students” enter the country with forged papers and are often members of crime organisations with entry into the Schengen area as their primary goal. Even one of the resident Finn-bashers here finds this practice objectionable. See #55.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 10:05 am
#76 Phil,
You may have a hard time understanding Halla-aho’s trial if you have lost your interest in Finnish politics. Because I see the trial as a political trial. I’ll elaborate a bit on my view.
Like you concluded yourself (and quite many others on this blog), people can say all kinds of things in public as long as these sayings do not have any influence on the “corporate-politbyro-establishment’s” “legitimate interests”. (Ask your older co-workers what “legitimate interests” means in Finnish political double-talk).
Halla-aho has some influence, or at least threatens to have some. That seems to have irked the Greens and the Swedish FP enough to voice a campaign that started the process leading to this trial.
My bet is that the trial would not have taken place if the wider “corporate-politbyro-establishment” would not support it. And it does support it because Halla-aho’s blogs expose the double-talk, which is one of the main tools for keeping the status quo.
Finnish state provides corporate welfare for all kinds of “worthy” reasons, and the Finnish corporations have invested in, organized their internal organizations, and created their external networks to channel those funds into their own use. Lots of these investments would turn worthless if the current structure were disrupted. So the corporates would like the politbureau to stay intact.
The politicians, on the other hand, have invested in their own networks and mutual exchanges of friendly deeds.They do not enjoy the arrival of a new competitor, especially if the competitor makes the politicians “wide social networks” seem more like “deeply rooted corruption”.
Bureaucrats, on the other hand, have built their own careers by adapting to the current system: placing their alliances to one of the current political parties for a later career move into a “sopiva” higher office chief.
None of these people think Halla-aho is good news. They would all like to see him shut up.
As a middle class tax payer, I find his message interesting. The worry is, that many other middle class taxpayers would find his message interesting. That’s why the establishment has to do its best to cat the guy as a nazi/criminal/lunatic/clown/un-cool, i.e. somebody that nobody wants to associate with, at least publicly.
A bit like what happened to Ron Paul in US, or Veikko Vennamo & Timo Soini here.
Comment by mara — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 10:10 am
v.i.lenin:
“So, how would we all feel about Finland babes marrying furriners and then wearing burkas ?”
I don’t recall seeing a single burqa in Helsinki or elsewhere in Finland. Ever.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 10:28 am
@102: Note the “would”. But I’m with Sarkozy on this one. Any Finnchick that goes for that should be sent back for regrooving.
Comment by v.i.lenin — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 11:03 am
#103: I would feel that it is their own business.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 11:13 am
Regarding Monsieur Sarkozy, let me add that if there’s ever any attempt to impose some totalitarian hijab ban in Finnish schools or elsewhere, I will be at the barricades. We have had constitutional freedom of religion in this country since 1922 and of course much longer in practice.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 11:18 am
#104: I’d tend to agree. But check out Sarko’s comments. I gotta say, burkas are medieval BS. Women as chattel cattle. Why not just add shackles? They might make sense in Afghanistan where (it seems) there’s a constant threat of sexual assault. But if they’re not functional, what are they? Wear’em at home if they get yer rocks off.
Comment by v.i.lenin — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 12:12 pm
That’s an interesting view on things, mara. But what is Halla-Aho’s message, besides ‘we’re under threat of the muslim breeding hordes’? The establishment can’t hardly be afraid of someone like that, can they?
Comment by majava — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 1:03 pm
I wonder why Phil deleted my post about racism aimed at Finns?
I never delete any comments! Let’s see if you got caught in the spam guard…
Comment by Phil — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 1:36 pm
I defer to women’s opinion (both collective and individual) on abortion. Likewise I’d like to hear what finngals would have to say about burkas. You’re free to walk down the street in bondage gear but nobody does, the place for it is the Sexhibition. Anyone game for a Burkabition?
Comment by v.i.lenin — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 1:47 pm
I don’t think that we should pretend that the freedom of speech includes the right to incite hatred towards an ethnic group. It seems right that a court is at least trying Hallo-Aho, they are the best placed to decide whether his writings crossed that line. My personal opinion is that they are extremely offensive and are certainly in the territory of incitement of hatred. The court will decide on this with a greater understanding of Finland’s law than I can and with more legitimacy than any of us contributing (either for or against him) here can.
What I find more concerning is that the leader of the True Finns, Timo Soini, continuously refuses to condemn people who have made or make clearly racist remarks whilst standing as a candidate or a member of his party. The lack of such an action clearly makes a mockery of his insistence that True Finns are not racist. His is also the only party represented in parliament that has not signed up to the agreement not to tolerate racism, despite being invited to do so.
Comment by Jonas G — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
@120 Can they be pigeonholed as nutters, or is it bigger than that?
Comment by v.i.lenin — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 2:08 pm
“It seems right that a court is at least trying Hallo-Aho, they are the best placed to decide whether his writings crossed that line. My personal opinion is that they are extremely offensive and are certainly in the territory of incitement of hatred.”
He was not sued for everything he has written, only for the one blog entry. Have you actually read and understood the point of it? No matter what you think of immigration and islam, I can’t see how that could be considered illegal in a “free” country. If that text is illegal then so are many comments here – especially the numerous hate speeches against Finns.
Comment by Foobar — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 2:54 pm
Phil: “I never delete any comments!”
Oh really? Practically all comments that I’ve tried to post to you blog have gone unpublished. Perhaps they were caught in the spam guard as well?
Comment by Veikko Suvanto — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 3:02 pm
@118 (Phil) Oh my, it re-appeared. I swear it wasn’t here in the morning?
Anyway, can’t everyone calm down a little, draw a deep breath and stop being so damn opinionated about each other and different views? Calling everyone who does not support Halla-aho’s line of thinking a red-green-liberal-idiot is out of line. So are Halla-aho comparisons to Adolf Hitler which are completely out or proportion, as well as the attempts of PC “guilt-by-association” attacks aimed at, say, True Finns.
People do, really, have OTHER reasons than racism to either question the policy on humanitarian immigrants or foreign students (as well as bash Finns). Halla-aho is a columnist/blogger with a very sharp tongue, but he never incites for violence or attacks or mindless hatred. I know it’s a popular “liberal” stand, i.e. inconvenient or offensive truths should be kept under the lid, lest they cause someone to react overtly or become negatively prejudiced. But people are more capable than that. They can and do think for themselves. Halla-aho can not and has not written a text that would incite any sane person to suddenly become a racist or attack another person.
Western societies were born from questioning conventions, from contesting what was considered the norm, from shedding off the weight of an oppressive religious system, from criticism targeted at just about anything and everything, yet learning from the past and trying to create systems that succeed. And eventually, after centuries of intelligence at work, from the hope of equality among the sexes, religions and ethnic groups, which we too often find are still very much a Western notion. We must hold up to that renaissance of thinking which has lead the Western world to become if by no means perfect, the most equal, most advanced and most free group of societies that have ever existed, with what was poverty merely a 100 or even 50 years ago more or less abolished, and seen life expectancy grow from 40 something to 75 in merely a hundred years. None of this would have been possible if all the minds going against the current would have been attacked like those who go against the grain seem to be today every time political correctness gets involved.
Stop thinking all Muslims are inherently evil because they are Muslims. There are 1.3 billion of them of all shades and colour. Stop being so suspicious of foreigners. Foreigners or immigrants, don’t believe everything what papers like Helsingin Sanomat write about Finns: we don’t hate you, nor most of us think any less of you because of the colour of your skin or the language you speak. There is no hidden structural racism. Stop calling True Finns a “racist” party because T. Soini refuses to judge what other people write to appease those enamored by political correctness. Stop confusing a satirist and social critic, for Adolf Hitler.
We have big issues at hand, we have huge problems to worry over, but maintaining the pretences of political correctness is surely not one of them. Think, please, THINK.
Comment by Bart — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 3:36 pm
EU-Finland 2009, nazism, nazi-EU, FASCISM, Suomi – POEM BY NIEMÖLLER:
http://cms.lindholm-fi.net/pages/teemat/henkiloeitae-paikkoja-ja-tapahtumia/ulkomaalaiset/martin-niemoeller.php
“They came first for Mikko Ellilä,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t Mikko Ellilä.
Then they came for Matti Nikki,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t Matti Nikki.
Then they came for Seppo Lehto,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t Seppo Lehto.
Then they came for the Jussi Halla-Aho,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t Jussi Halla-Aho.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up. ”
–
“Ensin ne tulivat hakemaan Mikko Ellilän,
ja en puhunut mitään koska en ollut Mikko Ellilä.
Sitten ne tulivat hakemaan Matti Nikin
en puhunut mitään koska en ollut Matti Nikki
Sitten ne tulivat hakemaan Seppo Lehdon,
en puhunut mitään koska en ollut Seppo Lehto.
Sitten en tulivat hakemaan Jussi Halla-ahon
ja en puhunut mitään koska en ollut Jussi Halla-aho.
Sitten ne tulivat hakemaan minut,
ja silloin ei enää ollut ketään joka olisi puhunut puolestani.”
- unknown-tuntematon
Comment by unknown-tuntematon — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 3:47 pm
Hi majava,
This is just my interpretation of the situation. Halla-aho has been tapping away quite a lot of text, and I haven’t read it all.
IMO Halla-aho has directed his criticism less on foreigners and more on the conduct of Finnish politicians and authorities, which he sees as somewhat intellectually dishonest and inconsistent.
He seems to claim that the politbyro’s conduct has led to less than optimal and inconsistent policies, of which one example are policies concerning immigrants.
The PC double talk has been crucial in maintaining this state of affairs. By exposing the double talk Halla-aho threatens to pull away the credibility of our politbyro and it’s club members in the corporate world. That’s why I see this trial as a political trial: the western value of free speech and its companion decision making based the rational logical argument are tested against PC double talk and cronyism.
If I remember correctly, the two most outraged political groups were Green women (who claimed that Halla-aho had wished them raped by foreigners) and Swedish FP people (was it on multiculturalism?). Anyway, the police could not find anything on the alleged rape-wish, so they had to reformulate the charge.
Both of these political groups consist of people with strong beliefs that they represent people that should receive special treatment from the state (Green women seem to support value relativism ideologically, SFP has old privileged positions to defend). It is plausible that those two of all the Finnish political groups would be the ones most likely to feel threatened by a blogger who claims that favoritism leads to a worse situation than generally applied laws and code of conduct. But the other members of “Suomi establishment club” are not objecting, either.
I got the impression that Halla-aho has argued for no special treatment based on the immigrant’s culture, religion or race. Rather, he has been saying that we should keep the same standards for everyone. In a way, Halla-aho seems to demand that justice be blind, at least country-of-origin-blind, religion-blind, and culture-blind. The PC double talk says that there are no nationally applicable codes of conduct, but that everything is a more than less unique case, leading to less-than-blindness of justice, and unequal rights.
Comment by mara — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
“Finland has obligation as UN country to accept some amount of asylum seekers – same as other UN members.”
An outrageous LIE. Tehre are only 20 countries in the world which accept refugees by a certain quota. These are refugees defined by Geneva convention: those who are persecuted in their homeland. (Fleeing war or poverty does not make anyone a refugee) Some 90 % of the countries of the world do not accept these so called quota-refugees (kiintiöpakolaiset).
It makes no sense that we should educate engineers for China and even do it for free.
“I give you example that when Hitler started his iideology barking, that was innocent too. Until 1939. Whe enough nazis found that barking interesting and stimulating.”
You had no reason to compare Halla-aho with Hitler.
Comment by Jaska — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 5:50 pm
“Not to mention all the financial aid you got from UN after WWII”
Please tell me about this. That is totally new to me. Finland was not even a member of the UN before 1950s.
“Anyway, I think that Finns are swines to a huge extent”
You compare an ethnic group with swines? Who’s the real racist here?
Comment by Jaska — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 5:54 pm
Hey, Jaska. Taking refuges doesn’t apply that you have to be one of those 20 contries. It depends on how much you are involved in the homelands where the refuges are coming from… I would say it’s just a business. For those coming from Iraq, Finland was investing much in Iraq and wish to get building contracts there now or when the country is stable. For Afganisthan, it’s another story: Join Nato, protecting the MINE explosives trading (A whole village where all the people are living with only one leg ) and the treaty that Finland won’t sign it, reconstruction contracts…So, it’s never been humanitarian how you think.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 6:05 pm
“Have the Swedes or have they not took thousands of Finnish kids under their care and for free?”
That was a case of temporary relocation. After the war most children returned to Finland.
Besides many asylum seekers are merely looking for a better economic situation for themselves. Not to mention that most of them are young men who could be fighting to make their homeland better instead of emigrating from it. Research has also proved that many asylum seekers who claim to be under 18 lie about their age.
Comment by Jaska — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 6:08 pm
“It depends on how much you are involved in the homelands where the refuges are coming from… I would say it’s just a business.”
Yes, business does play a part in the immigration scene. I have no delutions about our politicians’ humanitarian motives. Some of them are ideologists, some want to make profit for themselves, some are outright treasoners.
Comment by Jaska — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 6:13 pm
wow. even for an american, you, sir, are one dumb motherf**ker! six years in the country, yet you know next to nothing about it and its people. what an ignorant retard!
as you hate the place and the finns so much, i strongly suggest you haul your dumb ass back to the promised land of drive-by shootings, trailer parks, religious loons, racists, and mulletheads. i mean, seriously, douchetard.
…and i sincerely hope no decent american reads your mindless rants and thinks they really depict finland accurately.
btw, you should apply for a job at fox news. should be a slam dunk. i hear even glen beck is too sane, unbiased, and coherent for spreading the rnc gospel. not to mention fair and balanced ofcoz.
so, see you in hell, biatch. (not that i believe in any of that bs…) and don’t worry, i will never re-visit your pathetic ‘blog’: the only sentence in your ramblings that actually is true is: “Ignorant people … should be ignored”
Comment by a typical finn — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 8:26 pm
Nice how people are eager to sentence the guy without even reading the blog post itself. “Innocent until proven guilty” flies out of the window when the Holy Values of Socialist Internationalism are challenged. How is it that claiming someone to be a racist is sufficient proof for not only his guilt, but also ignorance and lack of education? Do people enjoy being factually wrong?
I hope that the judge throws the case out as soon as possible, and that the prosecutor won’t continue this B.S. up to the Supreme Court. In which kind of a country people are even tried for having the wrong opinion?
Comment by sepisp — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 10:02 pm
#125: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
#124: After all Timo Soini and the perus didn’t want to sign against racism, so…
Comment by Passerby — Fri, Aug 28th, 2009 @ 11:19 pm
@132 I am not even American and I can tell you the USA has saved Europe’s ass countless of times, such that if it wasn’t for them, Finland would probably be either part of Nazi Germany or Russia by now.
I have been living here for four years and I can tell you that you have your head in your ass so deep that you cannot see the obvious racism going on here.
Just a few weeks ago there was a very ugly incident in Espon Keskus when one of the ever present Finnish drunks decided to rail on an immigrant girl and pushed out of the train. Naturally this never made the news, though I did read about it in Länsivayla.
So let’s see who is the dumb motherfucker here
Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Aug 29th, 2009 @ 6:46 pm
@134 “Naturally this never made the news”
Of course it didnt, it was only in…
Ilta-Sanomat/STT:
Mies tönäisi kahdeksanvuotiaan junasta Espoossa
(oli: Rasistisesti käyttäytynyt mies töni 8-vuotiaan tytön ulos junasta)
13.5.2009
Helsingin Sanomat:
8-vuotias somalityttö paiskattiin junasta Espoon keskuksessa
Poliisi pyytää apua somalitytön pahoinpitelijän tavoittamiseksi
Tutkija: Maahanmuuttajalasten kokema rasismi erittäin yleistä
Vartti:
Poliisi etsii somalitytön junasta tönäissyttä pörröpäätä
YLE Uutiset:
Aamun lehdet
14.5.2009
Aamulehti/STT:
Poliisi etsii yhä somalitytön junasta tönäissyttä miestä
Ilta-Sanomat:
Poliisi etsii yhä somalitytön tuuppaajaa
Helsingin Sanomat:
Poliisi pyytää somalityttöä auttanutta naista ottamaan yhteyttä
Helsingin Sanomat:
Poliisi ja maahanmuuttajat eri mieltä tasapuolisesta kohtelusta
Poliisi ei ole vielä löytänyt valvontakamerakuvaa somalitytön tönäisystä
Somalitytön lähijunasta tönäissyt mies yhä kateissa
Laki ei tunne rasistista rikosta
Nouse seisomaan senkin suomalainen apina
15.5.2009
YLE:
Jälkiviisaat: SAK:n uusi puheenjohtaja ja perheen sisäinen adoptio
Kainuun Sanomien kolumni:
Seppo Turunen: Talibanit keskuudessamme
Helsingin Sanomien pääkirjoitus:
Edes lapset eivät välty suomalaiselta rasismilta
16.5.2009
Sisäasiainministeriön tiedote:
Etnisten suhteiden neuvottelukunta vetoaa: Kaikki mukaan älä töni -kampanjaan
18.5.2009
Ilta-Sanomat:
Poliisi kummissaan: Ei yhtään havaintoa somalitytön pahoinpitelystä
20.5.2009
Helsingin Sanomat:
Somalitytön tönäisy asemalaiturilla ei tallentunutkaan valvontakameralle
27.5.2009
I assume you dont read news or watch TV.
Thats weird case because it was lot in news but no one saw it happen. Only “evidence” is word of 8y old child whose father had made several “police reports” about racism…
Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Aug 29th, 2009 @ 9:28 pm
“Just a few weeks ago there was a very ugly incident in Espon Keskus when one of the ever present Finnish drunks decided to rail on an immigrant girl and pushed out of the train. Naturally this never made the news, though I did read about it in Länsivayla.”
You must be trolling, right? I assume you are referring to the case in which a 8-year-old girl said she was pushed? Helsingin Sanomat wrote about this incident daily for at least a week. Here are some examples:
http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/artikkeli/1135245904463
http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/artikkeli/Poliisi+pyyt%C3%A4%C3%A4+somalitytt%C3%B6%C3%A4+auttanutta+naista+ottamaan+yhteytt%C3%A4/1135245955723
http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/artikkeli/Poliisi+ei+ole+viel%C3%A4+l%C3%B6yt%C3%A4nyt+valvontakamerakuvaa+somalityt%C3%B6n+t%C3%B6n%C3%A4isyst%C3%A4/1135245975469
No eyewitnesses were ever found and security cameras didn’t show anything. If the girl had been white, it is almost certain HS would not have written one single article about it. But now you are using this as a proof of how racist Finns are?
But yes, you were probably just trolling so I feel stupid explaining all this…
Comment by Barfoo — Sat, Aug 29th, 2009 @ 11:18 pm
134: “Naturally this never made the news”
Yeah, right.
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Immigrants+say+Finnish+police+not+taking+complaints+of+racist+crimes+seriously/1135245979429
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Incident+at+train+station+draws+attention+to+racist+acts+aimed+at+children/1135245950103
Comment by Gotta love drive-by posters — Sun, Aug 30th, 2009 @ 1:26 am
After having read this entire thread from beginning to end there are a couple of things I’d like to share.
First of all, most of the so called ‘racism’ of Finns is not racism at all. It is a desire to protect the local culture.
I am from a middle european country where 20-30 years ago this exact same issue too root for the first time. Anyone who criticised the immigration policies was labeled a racist. It was a very effective way to silence the otherwise popular opinion that the own culture was under threat. Warning sign were not well read.
The situation today is such that over 50% of it’s major cities are now immigrants.
It’s sad to say but when you look at the UK, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, France, Denmark, all countries are experiencing difficulties with immigrants, especially with those who live out of government benefits.
One must therefor think whether it makes good sense to allow for people without any particular skills to enter the country.
The welfare state model is by comparison a very lucrative deal. So much so, that often family and/or friends from the home country are subsequently brought in.
Even marriages between cousins are not uncommon in order to get staying permits.
Also short sequential marriages (2 years or so) are part of this practice.
This is in fact economic immigration and it needs to be curtailed to ensure people do not spend a lifetime on government support and put innapropriate amount of pressure on the local taxpayers of the host country.
The words of the people that used to be labeled ‘racists’ in these countries are now again being examined and are found to have actually been more concerned about wanting to protect one’s own culture than there being any actual racism as the cause of it.
Furthermore, it is important to understand that certain people and parties benefit from there being controversy and strife.
Let’s look at the US. In the US it was said that muslim terrorists were attacking the country. Since that moment discrimination against muslims has grown significantly.
Then came the war on Iraq. This war was not sanctioned by the UN. The so called coalition of the willing has caused hundreds of thousands if not millions of victims and also refugees. The war was not justified and illegal in the eyes of UN.
So I think it is fair to say that the political leadership in the west is losing touch with their local base and are more and more listening to a supranatiolist government agenda that in the long run is bound to undermine local culture.
Are Finns a racist folk? Not in my experience. But it’s all too easy nowadays to put labels on people and sadly many people are doing it.
Are all moslims out to be a parasite in their host societies? Not by a long shot. But social and cultural differences may be two large thresholds to overcome in order to integrate successfully.
Once people put labels on issues it is but all too easy to perpetuate these worng assumptions; lies start lving their own lives.
Then there is a little something called peer pressure. Immigrants tend to flock to eachother. This causes the formation of ghetto’s. People keep eachother in check.
It’s a negative downward spiral one can witness all over the rest of Europe, and where Finland so far has come off relatively unscathed.
So I sure do hope that Finland learns from the mistakes that other countries have made in the past, and doesn’t blindly follow the path that Brussels has laid out for it.
Comment by Dang — Sun, Aug 30th, 2009 @ 8:56 am
@136
*sigh*
“First of all, most of the so called ‘racism’ of Finns is not racism at all. It is a desire to protect the local culture.”
How fucked up can you be ? How can pushing a Somali girl off the train a desire to protect local culture ???????
Comment by are you serious ? — Sun, Aug 30th, 2009 @ 9:33 am
@134 “Naturally this never made the news”
Of course it didnt, it was only in…
Ilta-Sanomat/STT:
Mies tönäisi kahdeksanvuotiaan junasta Espoossa
(oli: Rasistisesti käyttäytynyt mies töni 8-vuotiaan tytön ulos junasta)
13.5.2009
Helsingin Sanomat:
8-vuotias somalityttö paiskattiin junasta Espoon keskuksessa
Poliisi pyytää apua somalitytön pahoinpitelijän tavoittamiseksi
Tutkija: Maahanmuuttajalasten kokema rasismi erittäin yleistä
Vartti:
Poliisi etsii somalitytön junasta tönäissyttä pörröpäätä
YLE Uutiset:
Aamun lehdet
14.5.2009
Aamulehti/STT:
Poliisi etsii yhä somalitytön junasta tönäissyttä miestä
Ilta-Sanomat:
Poliisi etsii yhä somalitytön tuuppaajaa
Helsingin Sanomat:
Poliisi pyytää somalityttöä auttanutta naista ottamaan yhteyttä
Helsingin Sanomat:
Poliisi ja maahanmuuttajat eri mieltä tasapuolisesta kohtelusta
Poliisi ei ole vielä löytänyt valvontakamerakuvaa somalitytön tönäisystä
Somalitytön lähijunasta tönäissyt mies yhä kateissa
Laki ei tunne rasistista rikosta
Nouse seisomaan senkin suomalainen apina
15.5.2009
YLE:
Jälkiviisaat: SAK:n uusi puheenjohtaja ja perheen sisäinen adoptio
Kainuun Sanomien kolumni:
Seppo Turunen: Talibanit keskuudessamme
Helsingin Sanomien pääkirjoitus:
Edes lapset eivät välty suomalaiselta rasismilta
16.5.2009
Sisäasiainministeriön tiedote:
Etnisten suhteiden neuvottelukunta vetoaa: Kaikki mukaan älä töni -kampanjaan
18.5.2009
Ilta-Sanomat:
Poliisi kummissaan: Ei yhtään havaintoa somalitytön pahoinpitelystä
20.5.2009
Helsingin Sanomat:
Somalitytön tönäisy asemalaiturilla ei tallentunutkaan valvontakameralle
27.5.2009
I assume you dont read news or watch TV.
Thats weird case because it was lot in news but no one saw it happen. Only “evidence” is word of 8y old child whose father had made several “police reports” about racism…
Comment by Hannu — Sun, Aug 30th, 2009 @ 9:16 pm
“I am not even American and I can tell you the USA has saved Europe’s ass countless of times, such that if it wasn’t for them, Finland would probably be either part of Nazi Germany or Russia by now.”
America had no part in saving Finland from foreign occupation. On the contrary, Americans supported the Soviet Army which tried to conquer Finland in 1944.
“Just a few weeks ago there was a very ugly incident in Espon Keskus when one of the ever present Finnish drunks decided to rail on an immigrant girl and pushed out of the train. Naturally this never made the news, though I did read about it in Länsivayla.”
a) That was a few months ago
b) That was the main piece of news in all Finnish media that week
c) That probably never happened. The police found no wittnesses, nor any video survaillance footage. No one saw the incident. The only proof is the word of a 7-year old. She probably lied to make up an excuse, why her clothes were dirty…
Comment by Jaska — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 2:35 am
Jaska, why you have to lie about this? There were eyewitnesses in that case and the conductor was one of them. When you said that the little girl made up excuse, you must really be a racist and a motherfucker too, and I know you are proud of it….. I don’t know why some Finns like you don’t care how the image of Finland abroad is right now, don’t you know that Finnish tourists start to be treated badly in Bazaars, in hotels…
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 3:33 am
@137 The US had the good character not to declare war on Finland, whereas the UK did. Good for the US. And of course after the war, helping bury lots of arms caches in case of another commie invasion… can someone point to a good article about these caches?
Comment by v.i.lenin — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 10:12 am
“Jaska, why you have to lie about this? There were eyewitnesses in that case and the conductor was one of them.”
What is this case you are talking about? It is clearly something different than the one that were mentioned in the earlier links. In that one, no eyewitnesses were ever found. Could you give links to this case of yours please. It is funny if something like that has gone unnoticed while the earlier case got so much media attention.
“When you said that the little girl made up excuse, you must really be a racist and a motherfucker too,”
Not automatically believing something a 7- or 8-year-old says makes you a racist?
Comment by Foobar — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 10:19 am
Jaska, you are a dumb piece of shit. Reading your crap pile of lies is simply disgusting. Same goes for the dick Footbar.
YOU would definitely find your place in Hitler Jugen or a similar organisation.
Because of fuckers like you, I TRULY HATE Finns.
Comment by Jasiek — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 2:16 pm
That probably never happened. The police found no wittnesses, nor any video survaillance footage. No one saw the incident. The only proof is the word of a 7-year old. She probably lied to make up an excuse, why her clothes were dirty…
That’s how an “honest” Finn makes a white become a black. And wishes everyone else belives her.
and another of her “true wisdoms”:
“That was a case of temporary relocation. After the war most children returned to Finland.”
A lie – many stayed there. Did the Swedes complain about paying for those kids? Or did they simly help them? Something your barking nation cannot imagine to do for others.
“Besides many asylum seekers are merely looking for a better economic situation for themselves. Not to mention that most of them are young men who could be fighting to make their homeland better instead of emigrating from it. Research has also proved that many asylum seekers who claim to be under 18 lie about their age.”
Perhaps so did the Finnish kids.
You are a double standard swine Jaska. You just proved that.
It’s fine that Somalis die in the war but it’s not fine that Finnish would. Fuck off with your pathetic “logic”.
Comment by same — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 2:26 pm
“Because of fuckers like you, I TRULY HATE Finns.”
Ok, I got the final proof that were just trolling all the time. It was mildly amusing for a while, well done. Nice demonstration on how stupid some fanatics can be, not answering to any questions and using the wacky “ALL FANATICS MUST BE KILLED!!1!” level of argumentation. Special plus goes to using Hitler card again. So long and thanks for all the parody.
Comment by Foobar — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 2:46 pm
“I added some more comments in the post above. I think Halla-Aho is a racist retard. But if that were a crime, half the country would be in prison.”
Maybe you stupid yankee boy should go back home if you don’t like it here. Americans, the fattest, stupidest and most arrogant nation in the world. Maybe Osama is not wrong about you…
Comment by honest person (unlike Phil) — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 6:10 pm
Racism is a growing phenomenon all over Europe. The rise in popularity of right-wing parties is a worrying trend. Immigrants are attacked because they have work and are ”taking our jobs” and also attacked when they have no work ”they are taking our welfare money”.
They are caught between a rock and a hard place.
But here is what classifies you as a racist. You are a racist if you want people of other ethnic backgrounds to ‘leave’ your country regardless of whether they were born here or not. If you are in favor of dialogue and a ‘cultural exchange’ then you are not racist. Any ‘blogist’ who states as their aim that they want people of other ethnicity to integrate into Finnish society can dialogue all they like about ‘differences’ but if the blogist has the aim of wanting to rid ‘their’ country of people of different ethnic descent then they are are racist.
I mean look at it this way – a kid born of Somalian parents in Finland has to put up with a tremendous amount of abuse throughout their young lives just for being black and of Somalian parentage. How should a parent feel when their child is abused because of their ethnicity? The child is going through the Finnish education system and speaks Finnish fluently and some racists are saying that they should leave. They are saying that because of this child’s ethnicity that the child is in fact worthless.
It’s easy for the reactionary blogists to talk about moral equivalency and to offer grand theories and generalizations about a religion and it’s practitioners but it’s another thing for a person of Somalian ethnicity to be provoked and called worthless and to be targeted as both outsider and usurper.
Now this is why racist blogs, actions, statements, behavior, should be targeted by the justice system.
Comment by Andy Campbell — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 7:01 pm
“Jaska, why you have to lie about this? There were eyewitnesses in that case and the conductor was one of them.”
You’re the one lying here. The police incestigated the case for a long time (still?), but did not find anyone who would have seen the incident or anyone who would have seen the man the girl described. The girl claimed that a Finnish woman helped her after the incident, but this woman has not come to the public either. No witnesses, no video survaillance footage – NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. Also, the girl’s father has a history about filing complaints for “racism”.
If you still disagree with me, please provide some links where the “witnesses” come forward…
Sometimes children simply lie. It’s not racist to point out that according to all probability that is what happened here.
“Because of fuckers like you, I TRULY HATE Finns.”
You hate an entire ethnic group? Sounds pretty racist…
Comment by Jaska — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 8:04 pm
Phils head is so far up his own ass its a surprise he dont stink like shit at work.
Phil does it again with his stupidity, Im glad you ass got sues you dumb ass.
Phil is not one for thinking is he?
Dumb ass
Comment by born there — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
Well, I won’t be back in a hurry. This place used to have better comments…
Comment by pod — Mon, Aug 31st, 2009 @ 8:45 pm
I love to see how all the idiots born in Finland boil in their rage whenever they hear a wisper of criticism from anyone, who is an outsider. They are absolute crap, full of lies, self deception and hate towards ANYONE who does not have a fucking Suomen Leijona tatoo on their arse.
Fuckingg Nazis.
Comment by same — Tue, Sep 1st, 2009 @ 8:24 am
“Fuckingg Nazis”
You have no right to call people names, especially after proving that you are yourself a Finn-hater extremist.
Comment by Jaska — Tue, Sep 1st, 2009 @ 10:22 am
bla bla bla…
Comment by same — Tue, Sep 1st, 2009 @ 2:23 pm
#152, Childish.
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Sep 1st, 2009 @ 3:22 pm
I read this topic from start to finish.. A lot of sheepish bashing without any real merit, most of the people seem like they don’t want to know all the facts. They just want to know what their flock thinks and then repeat. Sad. I’m not sure who is right and who is wrong when it comes to the court case, but some of the people really can’t debate with facts and well thought out opinions. You people BASH. You over-simplify matters, use ad hominem regularly and use racist language – and for some reason think it’s perfectly ok! It makes the whole conversation worthless.
Comment by Timo — Wed, Sep 2nd, 2009 @ 3:48 am
Wow, so much hate here towards Finns. I wonder why these haters choose to live in Finland and not leave to some other country (apparently all other countries are better than this racist hellhole).
Comment by JuhaP — Wed, Sep 2nd, 2009 @ 10:05 am
Well Timo, it would be interesting to read more about the court case, I agree. I have my hopes set on HankW, to come with a scoop, but I suggest he’d better make a new post for that.
@JuhaP: only hate towards the Finns that hate.
Comment by majava — Wed, Sep 2nd, 2009 @ 2:31 pm
How about we just gas all the minorities, then everyones problems will be solved.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Sep 2nd, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
Very “innovative” Anonymous.
Comment by same — Thu, Sep 3rd, 2009 @ 8:07 am
Fukkking nazis!!!
Comment by x — Fri, Sep 4th, 2009 @ 7:09 pm
@160: Scoop is coming Tuesday noon when the court delivers.
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Sep 6th, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
@150: I think the problem is not the kid in any country that goes to school and learns the language. The problem is with the parents that feel 5the kid is “too much X-country” and westernized and liberala and wish to pack them up and be re-educated back in the “old country” which they themselves “escaped from”. Now does this not make you think its picking the raisins from the bun? You want to not-live in X and you want-to-live in Y thats your choice. You cannot eat the cake and have it too. What you call “racism” is basically me saying that if you don’t want to live as a Finn in Finland you are free to leave. I think the racist – the imperialist is the foreigner invading another country and imposing his own rules and values onto the natives.
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Sep 6th, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
And there is one significant point everyone misses, there is a difference being an immigrant-hater or immigration policy hater.
Say I hate living next door to a cat lady with 200 cats. Do I “hate cats” if I call the Animal Protection? And do you ask the cat lady?
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 9:05 am
I have four letters for you.
GTFO
Comment by Greeting from Finland — Fri, Sep 11th, 2009 @ 9:09 pm
“I think the racist – the imperialist is the foreigner invading another country and imposing his own rules and values onto the natives.”
And who the fuck imposes anything on you buggers? You want to drink like pigs – go ahead, you wish to remain poor – fine by us, you wanna look like shit – be my guest.
But DO NOT expect us to become you. Never in a million years. That would be going backwards.
Comment by same — Wed, Sep 16th, 2009 @ 8:30 am
I live in Estonia and visit Finland often, and interestingly enough, have noticed more racism coming from Finns than from their cousins from across the Baltics. Hatred is most intense when I’m with a Finnish girlfriend (rare) or Estonian girlfriend (common).
On the other hand, I have never expected open-arms, smiling tolerance from any country I’ve lived in so find all this perfectly banal.
At the end of the day, there are a few things that hold true across cultures:
The richer you are, the more you can insulate yourself from the dirty prejudices of your new host country.
The less dependent you are on your host country to provide you a living, the more you can pick & choose who to associate with, and thereby, ignore the majority who may hate you on sight.
Comment by ESTONIA — Sat, Oct 31st, 2009 @ 6:59 pm
funny, all this shit…..
Comment by oldfart — Thu, Dec 3rd, 2009 @ 2:47 am