Thanks goodness they would have done the same — including closing airspace — for the kidnapped kid of an ordinary Joe Sixpäk

Nobody would kidnap a kid of an ordinary Joe Sixpack.

Ten years? That’s a joke. He should be executed.

Yeah, 10 years is kinda a joke. Good behavior he’s out in 5? Doing the same amount of time as some schmuck who forgot to pay some taxes.

That girl is fucked up FOR LIFE. She’ll be having nightmares at age 90 cause of this.

Thanks goodness they would have done the same — including closing airspace — for the kidnapped kid of an ordinary Joe Sixpäk

Yeah no kidding. If you have 10 million euros sitting around, you have friends in high places that can do stuff like, close airspace.

That girl is fucked up FOR LIFE

Nahhhh… East Stockholm Syndrome. She’ll probably end up marrying him in Pelso Prison and they’ll raise Northern Finncattle and live happily ever after. Or.. of course… there’s the out-there theory it was all a neat plot to get her hands on the dosh before mom croaks.
Still, now we all know how much 10 million in crisp 100-euro notes weighs. A lot.

Uh-Oh. Better get offline. I think that’s a UAV going over the apartment block.

“Ten years? That’s a joke. He should be executed.”

Well, this begs the question if there are people who shouldn’t be executed according to Fred Freedom Fry. Ah, I can think of at least a couple: The war criminals Donald Rumsfeld and George W. Bush who should not even be indicted. Indeed, atrocities in the name of fictional beings don’t seem to be a monopoly of them evil muzzies.

I wonder what all the kvetching is about though. Clearly this man didn’t want to be a peon for the welfare state and instead opted to take his destiny into his own hands the American way. Y’all should be cheering for him.

“Well, this begs the question if there are people who shouldn’t be executed according to Fred Freedom Fry.”

– Sure, people who don’t kidnap, rob, kill, steal cars…

Here is a thought, how about letting the victims choose the punishment.
– People who think that the criminals are doing what they do because of some social injustice can set their criminal free. The rest of us can choose harsher sentences. As it is, you can already see this in action. Why do you think Estonians go to Sweden to steal? Because even if they get caught, jail is like a vacation.

Remember, the criminals are willing to kill. What if the ransom was not paid for this lady. Was he just going to give her up after some point? Trivialize my comment all you want, however ransoms are paid under the threat of never seeing the victim alive again. She is not dead because the ransom was paid and he was caught. It could have easily ended otherwise. And it is from that angle that he should be charged.

Fred Freedom Fry:
“- Sure, people who don’t kidnap, rob, kill, steal cars…”

So, a joyride should be a capital offense? Most interesting. And what. pray tell, should be done with the war criminals I mentioned?

Club Gitmo has room, want to swap him for a friend??????

“Club Gitmo has room, want to swap him for a friend??????”

Talking about Rumsfeld, Winnie?

There might be a couple of us here in the U.S. who’d like to see the above mentioned war criminals prosecuted however we also realize the rule of law “money talks and bullshit walks”.

As for your Fin-napper, escaped on a bike?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qljweDHR-qA

This case is just a tip of the iceberg, this lawyer can do anything for the money. And still we don’t know what the others has done!

How can he afford Arvela services, does he have some personal wealth or are tax payers footing the bill?

Fred Freedom Fry:
“Here is a thought, how about letting the victims choose the punishment.”

Rape by German shepherds followed by electrocution would be suitable for Rummy (an eye for an eye and all that), but I agree, the victims should decide.

“So, a joyride should be a capital offense?”

Are you suggesting that a joyride is a victimless crime?

In the US, a ‘joyride’ is Grand Theft and punishable by up to a year in jail. I’m guessing that Finns see no jailtime for such a ‘petty’ crime, especially if they claim that they were drunk when they did it.

At the very least the car is left with hundreds of $/Euros in damage just from the break in. And if the joyriders end their ride by crashing the car, the car might be totaled. Worse, they can get into an accident and harm/kill others. Those that commit the crime show a complete lack of respect for others. Executing them saves society from having to deal with them later on. If joyriding is no problem for you, then leave the keys in your car and leave it unlock. It will save you a broken window. Chances are the police will find your car quickly.

Oh, as for Bush and ‘Rummy’ they did not go are far as I would have liked. If you are looking for politicians to prosecute, look on your side of the pond. For starters, the EU has turned a blind eye to the hundreds of migrants drowning in the Med trying to get to the EU.

Fred Freedom Fry:
“Are you suggesting that a joyride is a victimless crime?”

Well, uh, no.

“I’m guessing that Finns see no jailtime for such a ‘petty’ crime”

You’re wrong as usual. When will you ever learn? I guess that would require growing a brain.

“Executing them saves society from having to deal with them later on.”

That’s a great argument, Mr. Freedom Fry. Of course, it could be argued that stupidity is the main cause of stupid behaviour, which is the world’s primary problem. Hence, it would behoove us to execute all stupid people. Besides joyrides, stupidity results in far more serious consequences such as 8 years of the Bush administration.

“Oh, as for Bush and ‘Rummy’ they did not go are far as I would have liked.”

Fascinating. Where did they go soft? German shepherds and dobermans are not big enough rape dogs? Should have been great Danes? In what particular way did they not sufficiently destroy any moral character that the United States might have previously commanded? Please enlighten us. I take the Nazis didn’t go far enough either. Please shed some more light on conservative thinking.

FF,
Just how did the Bush Administration effect you? Were you on Saddam’s payroll or what? The invasion of Iraq killed less Iraqis than Saddam was doing on his own, all the while subjecting his population to harsh conditions while he lived high off oil revenue. (Provided by the way with very helpful Europeans who helped him go around UN sanctions.) And speaking of the international community, Bush got a green light to do whatever it is your complaining about. (Whatever that might be)

Shame on the international community for letting him rule for so long. Same goes for North Korea, Zimbabwe, etc… There are the criminals.

While we are on the subject of crimes against humanity, Finland’s neighbor Russia still has yet to be held accountable for the crimes of the Soviet Union. They are still playing the rest of the world for fools. Putin’s recent invasion of Georgia and harassment of Estonia the most recent example . But all you see is Bush. The guy is not even President anymore.

“Just how did the Bush Administration effect you?”

I recommend a subscription of The Economist, WSJ and FT for starters, plus some elementary economics textbook. Apparently an HSE MBA ain’t worth the money.

“The invasion of Iraq killed less Iraqis than Saddam was doing on his own”

A blatant lie.

“all the while subjecting his population to harsh conditions while he lived high off oil revenue”

And the change in this has been…?

“And speaking of the international community, Bush got a green light to do whatever it is your complaining about. ”

He did not. The war was illegal.

“The guy is not even President anymore.”

Gee whizz, I guess that makes it all right! Sometimes I wonder how it feels to be you. Probably warm and fuzzy.

fred fry, if a joy-rider deserved death sentence, those bush and rumsfeld with cheney would deserve it many times.

oh, well of course putin kim saddam and binladen too.

#18.”The invasion of Iraq killed less Iraqis than Saddam was doing on his own”.

That’s not true.

“And speaking of the international community, Bush got a green light to do whatever it is your complaining about. (Whatever that might be)”.

False, Security Council has declined twice Bush request to attack Iraq.

“Zimbabwe, etc… There are the criminals.”

Don’t believe whatever the media said. About Zimbabwe, it’s only a propaganda against Mogabe, he want to distribute the wealth of the country over natives, and of course that will be against the British interests in there. Actually people there see Mogabe as a national hero and a saver from the colony.

Nowadays, crimes against humanity, terror, democracy, weapons of mass destruction, are just false reasons to conquer any country you want. But now this dirty ways has turned into a provocation, many countries has learned those lessons and started to think about their own security like North Korea , Iran and Venezuela, countries just asking respect , nothing more… Really an amazing start for this century.

“Oh, as for Bush and ‘Rummy’ they did not go are far as I would have liked. If you are looking for politicians to prosecute, look on your side of the pond. For starters, the EU has turned a blind eye to the hundreds of migrants drowning in the Med trying to get to the EU.

Comment by Fred Fry”

lets add 9,000 frog marched to a machine gun in the yugo war? Yea you EU types make the USA look like amatures in this killing thingie.

want to add the 1 Million in Darfur you all let get killed? We
have to remember that Kofi aked Bush to go there and we turned down that fun trip. Said it was your turn.

1. Saddam managed to kill between a half and a million Iraqis. Who knows how many he would have killed if he had stayed i power.

2. The US did not go into Iraq alone. It was not illegal. and as for the UN rubber stamp, I do not see any complaints here about North Korea and Iran ignoring UN resolutions. (Not to mention international agreements they are a party to.)

3. “I recommend a subscription of The Economist, WSJ and FT for starters, plus some elementary economics textbook. Apparently an HSE MBA ain’t worth the money.”
– Oh please, what a cop-out. Hey look, all this slowdown in global business is doing wonders for the environment. After all, if business was booming, you guys would all be complaining about how much the good times were simply a rape of the planet. You guys are never happy. And if you are reading the WSJ every day, then your reading all about how our new dear leader is selling us all down a river of debt.

Iskobar, who is paying you to write this crap?
“Don’t believe whatever the media said. About Zimbabwe, it’s only a propaganda against Mogabe, he want to distribute the wealth of the country over natives, and of course that will be against the British interests in there. Actually people there see Mogabe as a national hero and a saver from the colony.”
- I guess we can just ignore that Mugabe is moving his wealth to Hong Kong. Didn’t his wife just assault a reporter over there. Sadly, the solution to Zimbabwe just might be re-colonization.

“many countries has learned those lessons and started to think about their own security like North Korea , Iran and Venezuela, countries just asking respect , nothing more… Really an amazing start for this century.”
- If you seriously believe this than you are the enemy. North Korea as a whole is a prison camp. The population is held hostage by its own Government to extort the international community. North Korea finds comments like yours very helpful. You are a ‘useful idiot’. the benefit to you is that they try to kill you last.
- The country only know of respect through force.

Apologies for not wanting to kiss Saddam’s feet like all these other supporters. He was the one who started this whole mess by invading Kuwait.

Freeridin’, the change is obviously that Saddam was executed, he’s no longer living the high life, he’s dead. I’m not in mourning for him even if I think life imprisonment is the civilized way to deal with people like him, as execution is stooping down to the level of the Saddams of this world in the name of revenge.

Saddam being removed demonstrated a point to all the other petty dictators like him, you’re allowed to rape and torture your people only as long as you are a useful tool for at least one of the major powers of this world. If you forget that and think you’re infallible or impossible to replace by some other tool, you’re screwed.

Yes Fred, we all have to respect the use of force, and we’re glad we’re not the ones being shot at as long as US is the #1 power but if and when China takes over the role as the world’s leading military power, force in international relations might very well become primarily used to promote dictatorship and the phrases like “respect through force” will be used against people who speak up for civic freedoms.

Saddam btw. did a lot of bad things and many of them were before he invaded Kuwait. Halabja was not taken seriously by the US before the invasion of Kuwait changed the position of the Iraqis visavi the Americans. That’s sad but says a lot about how good a start Saddam got for his atrocious career before he was blinded by delusions of grandeur.

These are the kinds of people who go into politics.

C’mon Giustino, this guy who did the kidnapping is not representative of Finnish politics at all, not even of Turku politics. Being a politician was not this guy’s major profession, he was a lawyer and a well-liked university teacher and staff member. You could as well be arguing that lawyers tend to be this greedy or that university faculty members tend to be this frustrated.

Actually he wasn’t a liked university teacher, he was a regular bureaucrat/employee apparently tasked with purchasing locks et cetera for the buildings. Everything so far points to him having a delusion of grandeur; his ridiculous idea of committing the perfect crime, attempt to enter politics, even.

“Here is a thought, how about letting the victims choose the punishment.”

I’m sorry, Fred Fry, bu we live in the West. You know, the civilized part of the world. If you like cruel punishments you’d ought to move to Iran. They chop off an arm from a thief there. And they just re-elected a president to your liking, no soft values there.

“If you like cruel punishments you’d ought to move to Iran. They chop off an arm from a thief there. And they just re-elected a president to your liking, no soft values there.”

thats Ok, the newbe USA President just decided to say, hay stop all the bad stuff, again showing zero leadership skills.

We all know this will not end well.

“Newbie USA President” is new face on NeoCon empire. Decline continues.

New face on NeoCon empire. The decline continues.

“If you like cruel punishments you’d ought to move to Iran. They chop off an arm from a thief there. And they just re-elected a president to your liking, no soft values there.”

Gee, Jaska, you read me like a book.

As for the ‘West’ being civilized, tell that to the women being raped by muslims in Sweden.

As for the ‘West’ being civilized, tell that to the folks in Darfur (1 Million) who you all get the axe and put down those nice wells you all paid to get dug.

This is what inlelligent Jaska wrote
“I’m sorry, Fred Fry, bu we live in the West. You know, the civilized part of the world. If you like cruel punishments you’d ought to move to Iran. They chop off an arm from a thief there. And they just re-elected a president to your liking, no soft values there.”

Few comments:
You Jaska do not live in West, you live in forest. At the best call it North.

And most definitely there is still a long way to civilization in this neck of the woods. As the “civilised” lawyer, dedicated father and husband, respected teacher etc. just proved.

Perhaps chopping a hand off is not such a bad idea – that would definitely stop most of the “civilized” thiefs from sticking it out in order to take someone else’s possesion. In China there is a penalty for throwing a rubbish in the street – that would be great idea to implement around Kampi area.

No soft values in Iran – and what values have you here? Money and sex rules the lives of most Finns that I have met.

So, do not preach others if you are not a saint yourself.

No Tussumussu, that is not China, that is Singapore.

Amazed again by the web. A discussion started on the kipnapper Turunen ended up with Bush, Rumsfeld and Saddam

@Mussuka @Presso, in China they do fine people littering, WHEN the officials feel like it. Actually they have all those fines in China, Singapore and Hong Kong: splitting, littering, eatting/drinking in metro, pressing wrong buttons in metro …

I personally like the splitting fine to come to Finland

Fred Freedom Fry:
“1. Saddam managed to kill between a half and a million Iraqis. Who knows how many he would have killed if he had stayed i power.”

The vast majority of whom he killed when he was officially one of the good guys. During his last years he executed less people than the state of Texas. Which brings back to my mind that executions were supposed to be a good thing.

“- Oh please, what a cop-out. Hey look, all this slowdown in global business is doing wonders for the environment.”

I didn’t say I was complaining. I cited a very tangible personal effect of the 8 disastrous Bush years, even though it has been limited so far.

“And if you are reading the WSJ every day, then your reading all about how our new dear leader is selling us all down a river of debt.”

And this is somehow different from what the Bush administration did for its entire time during an economic boom? And now that Obama is doing it in a downturn, it is suddenly a problem? Whee.

“Apologies for not wanting to kiss Saddam’s feet like all these other supporters. He was the one who started this whole mess by invading Kuwait.”

He would not have stayed in power long enough to invade Kuwait without US and European support. Rumsfeld went there to personally kiss his feet. I guess he “didn’t go far enough” back then either.

Fred Freedom Fry:
“While we are on the subject of crimes against humanity, Finland’s neighbor Russia still has yet to be held accountable for the crimes of the Soviet Union. ”

Which crimes? Not going far enough, I take it.

Like murder in Katyn – read a bit FF.

“And this is somehow different from what the Bush administration did for its entire time during an economic boom? And now that Obama is doing it in a downturn, it is suddenly a problem? Whee.”

– If he was spending anywhere near what Bush was spending would be one ting, however, Obama is spending as much money this year as Bush spent his whole four-year second term. And this coming from a guy who is promising to halve a deficit he himself doubled!

– All this spending does not include the additional money he wants to spend to F-up health care.

Has the kidnapper killed himself yet?

Obama’s neocon administration has essentially the same goals as his predecessor’s, barring some minor, superficial differences.

Fred Freedom Fry:
“- All this spending does not include the additional money he wants to spend to F-up health care.”

As if you had healthcare to “F” up.

someone:
“Like murder in Katyn – read a bit FF.”

The so-called murders in Katyn were a necessary measure to combat fascist terrorism. If anything, the NKVD didn’t go far enough. Try a little harder.

“As if you had healthcare to “F” up.”

Why yes I do, very good care actually. Everyone at the company I work at has better healthcare than what they would get in Finland. If they want to see a doctor, they see one the next day. No waiting months for an MRI or months/years for a surgery.

And lets not overlook the little talked about fact that most people in ‘free healthcare Finland’ pay for private health insurance.

So go learn a little about these things before you trash them. I have lived in both countries and know both systems well. Healthcare in the US is better than in Finland for most Americans.

Finland should be paying attention to what is going on in the US, because if this disaster of ‘Universal’ care in the US is passed, that will mean higher prices in Finland, as the Drug companies will need to reprice their products since they will not be able to recover their R&D costs as easily from the US anymore.

One more thing, anyone who ready the WSJ would know better than to write “As if you had healthcare to “F” up.” since they have extensive coverage of the health care debate.

In case you missed, here is one part of an article in today’s edition: Government Health Plans Always Ration Care – Europe offers a glimpse of the future if President Obama and congressional Democrats have their way.

——————–
The idea of an omnipotent board that makes unpopular decisions on access and price isn’t a new construct. It’s a European import. In countries such as France and Germany, layers of bureaucracy like health boards have been specifically engineered to delay the adoption of new medical products and services, thus lowering spending.

In France, assessment of medical products is done by the Committee for the Evaluation of Medicines. Reimbursement rates are set by the National Union of Sickness Insurance Funds, a group that also negotiates pay to doctors.

In Germany, the Federal Joint Committee regulates reimbursement and restrictions on prescribing, while the Institute for Quality and Efficiency in Healthcare does formal cost-effectiveness analysis. The Social Insurance Organization, technically a part of the Federal Joint Committee, is in charge of setting prices through a defined formula that monitors doctors’ prescribing behavior and sets their practice budgets. In the past 12 months, the 15 medical products and services that cleared this process spent an average 35 months under review. (The shortest review was 19 months, the longest 51.)

In short, other countries where government plays a large role in health care aren’t shy about rationing. Mr. Obama’s budget director has acknowledged that rationing reduces costs. Peter Orszag told Congress last year when he headed the Congressional Budget Office that spending can be “moderated” if “diffusion of existing costly services were slowed.”
——————–

American’s don’t like to wait for care. That will be one undoing of this bogus plan.

Fred “Freedom” Fry –
that will mean higher prices in Finland, as the Drug companies will need to reprice their products since they will not be able to recover their R&D costs as easily from the US anymore.

So you mean that you’re now paying inflated prices for medicines? Is that something you should be happy about? As a “Freedom Loving” American that is.

Healthcare in the US is better than in Finland for most Americans.

Most, but what about the rest? Of course, I mean that significant and growing minority of Americans who have pre-existing conditions that insurance companies won’t cover, and those who get denied claims only to be charged fraudulently inflated hospital charges which ultimately lead to personal bankruptcy. You realize that inflated medical bills are the number “1″ cause of bankruptcy in America, don’t you?

layers of bureaucracy like health boards have been specifically engineered to delay the adoption of new medical products and services, thus lowering spending.

Point taken, although I don’t see much difference compared to the US system. You know about the FDA? I’ve read that it takes LONGER to approve drugs in the USA, not shorter. Overall, in my experience, access to medicines and medical care is MUCH better in Europe (not necessarily Finland though) than in USA. At least they ACCEPT CASH in Europe. You can really get anything you want, because they know that you’ll go elsewhere if they don’t offer it to you. The improvement in European systems is a relatively recent phenomenon (last 5-years maybe?). In USA, they still look at cash customers with dumb facial expression and repeat, “Duh, what’s the name of your insurance company again?”

Everyone at the company I work at has better healthcare

Just keep being a good slave and they’ll let you keep it

Fred Freedom Fry:
“Why yes I do, very good care actually. Everyone at the company I work at has better healthcare than what they would get in Finland.”

That’s an excellent system for building an army of mindless, obedient corporate slaves. Do what you’re told or else. They seem to have done a great job with you. I have to admire the ingenuity of it all. What were the last US unemployment figures again?

“If they want to see a doctor, they see one the next day.”

Pathetic. I went to see a doctor last Wednesday. I walked into the office, without an appointment, at 7.40 pm and was talking to the doctor a quarter to eight. What’s truly amazing is that with the ridiculous money you pay for healthcare, getting an appointment the next day is frequently cited as some sort of a miracle.

By the way, if they miss work because of seeing the doctor, they get fired, right?

“And lets not overlook the little talked about fact that most people in ‘free healthcare Finland’ pay for private health insurance.”

Why yes, for instance the travel insurance that comes with my credit card covers acute illness. I believe the charge is around 50€ annually.

“The idea of an omnipotent board that makes unpopular decisions on access and price isn’t a new construct.”

Certainly not, that’s called an insurance company. You know, the kind where a CEO rakes in a 9-figure salary that gets paid by the taxpayers.

“American’s don’t like to wait for care. That will be one undoing of this bogus plan.”

I’ve posted this clip of “American’s” waiting for care before:

http://www.iltalehti.fi/nettitv/?7077969

Jesus. I’ll take my chances with the nanny state, thank you very much.

Freedom Fry,

Why the hell are you paying taxes in US in general? I mean in 99% of the places in the US, the roads are fucked up, public transportation is a health risk (even before it shows up), the cops show up if they feel like it, school education is mediocre at best, there’s trash everywhere, etc., etc…

And not to mention the 49 million US citizens who are forced to pay for bombs, etc., but will not get any kind of health care unless they’ve got a severed artery, a massive coronary, or something similar with a couple minutes of life to go for… like my neighbor.

Public health care works well in some countries, and doesn’t in others. Personally, I don’t care how the problem is solved (ensuring adequate health care for the 49 M tax paying US citizens)… but before it does, this country is a Thirld World country, so to speak.

Valhalla,
Drop the ‘freedom’ insult and maybe we can have an intelligent discussion. As for ‘Just keep being a good slave and they’ll let you keep it’, slaves have no choice. I can walk out of my job if I want. For every person fired where I work, two quit. Try that in Europe with employment contracts.

El Capone, Half of those 49 Million have access to health care and decline to take it. A good portion of the remained are in fact not US Citizens. As it so happens, the Health care plans are not planning to cover illegal aliens, other than what they get already, when is pretty good. (This is why health care will come first and then mass amnesty, which will then give illegals full health care.)

“For every person fired where I work, two quit.”
You mention this in your advertising brochures, do you???

“I’ve posted this clip of “American’s” waiting for care before:”

- Right, in America, you have to wait in line for free health and dental care.
- In Finland the lines are just as long for free bread.

What’s worse, not being able to afford good care, or not beable to afford anything…

Tapio,
We have no slaves here. This is the land of ‘Take that job and shove it’ That’s Finland where whole towns are dependent on the local factory.

I would not want to get sick in either place, Finland or America. They both suck.

Finland for quality reasons.
America for financial reasons.

I’m glad I don’t have to live in either country. Like comparing Hindenberg with Titanic. Which is better one?

““For every person fired where I work, two quit.”
You mention this in your advertising brochures, do you???”

It is rather obvious that Freedom Fry’s place of work does not compete for top talent.