hi phil…

i am following your blog for a while, and as far as i remember, this is the first time i am commenting…

i can clearly understand your pain.

I’ve been living in finland for 2 years and most of the times, i’ve felt that if i was an non specialized, poorly educated asylum seeking immigrant from a non-developed country, my life would be much more easy in many terms…

unfortunately current finnish system is not very very friendly for the aliens like us…

if there is something called reincarnation, i wish i can come back as a citizen of such countries… if i can manage to survive to the age i can immigrate, i will much probably better shot in finland then currently we have

i hope things not goes as bad as it can, so you can continue to live in your terms…

Not any better here in the USA. Obameeeeee has investors so worried of a US Dollar collapse, the curve for long term bonds just went streight up.

The comming collapse in the U.S. dollar as the Obameeeee Fed floods the world with newly minted currency is going to hurt. But for sure now, he will be a 4 years term president.

wow, thats Change you can believe in all right

I said we were getting $30 cheeseburger, well, its going to be $300

Phil..um not to sure about the above scenario. I think someone’s been drinking the kool-aid. However, as someone in Detroit with our 22% unemployment I feel your pain. Is the language barrier that huge of a deal? I hope things start to go improve for you…I’m hopeful for all of us. Good times don’t last, bad times don’t either. Got my fingers crossed for ya. Marj in the big D

Suggestions in case of unemployment:

1) I assume you’re entitled to 500 days of the higher unemployment benefits. No panic then.

2) Get your Finnish up to scratch during those two years.

3) Set up your own company and work as an external until they hire you back.

Phil, what you say sounds eerily familiar and, asides from the shaky Finnish skills (some of us DO speak a spotless Finnish), is spot-on.

This being said, it only applies to those who haven’t gotten Permanent resident status yet. Those indeed have to brace for the worse and anticipate going back to wherever they came from.

Meanwhile, those with a Permanent status can indeed do everything that Finnsense suggests, that is:

1) Register as a jobseeker at Työvoimatoimisto and claim unemployment (and other) benefits from KELA as a result. You’re fully entitled to claim them, since you paid your taxes during all those years, which included deduction for the National Pension Fund, which means any benefit that KELA pays, so you’re definitely NOT abusing social security; instead, you’re simply getting around claiming what you’ve been dearly paying for all these years.

2) Sign up for työvoimapoliittinen maaahanmuuttajakoulutus at Työvoimatoimisto to improve your Finnish. They’re probably gonna start you at the bottom with beginner’s classes and let them have it. Unless the teacher they send you to is a complete idiot, she’s gonna willingly upgrade you to intermediate classes ASAP.

3) Setting up you own company (as a Finnish or EU citizen, or as an immigrant with Permanent status) is fairly straightforward (it’s too tedious and costly if you don’t fit any of the above 3 categories), but the amount of paperwork to regularly submit to various institutions eats a LOT of your time OR results in your paying extra for an accountant to handle all your daily paperwork. In other words, you haven’t made a single buck yet and you’re already forking money you don’t have out of your own pocket. Thus, unless you have some sort of guarantees to be hired as an external, don’t bother with setting up a company. Instead, start by changing your tax card to a Freelancer type and use that for the first few gigs. If/when business increases, you’ll eventually reach a point where it will make sense to register a company AND to hand over daily paperwork to an accountant. That is a good time to ask Työvoimatoimisto for startup funding via their immigrant business incubator program.

If you’re gonna sign up at Työvoimatoimisto, do it PRONTO after you get the boot cos you don’t get bennies for the days in-between.

I spend seven years out of work, in Turku of all places, and very nearly had to move back. As a well-educated person I could not see any sense in being on welfare.

But just as I was starting to plan to return stateside with my tail between my legs, a job came through, but … it was a close call.

I can sympathize.

Getting laid off as a foreigner may be especially difficult, but it all balances out when you consider that getting laid as a foreigner is especially easy.

I made the decision early this year to move back to the states in August and am looking forward to it. I spent 6 years here with unsteady work mostly freelance and will be happy to have something more steady. I can’t do the Kela and Unemployment money as a American it’s just not in my DNA. I understand completely where your coming from Phil but I think my end destination was always back home and the oppertunities are 100 times better for us there any way.

I’m sure Obama didn’t screw it up any worse than the last guy and we elected him twice (Winter!)

#7: I read it without the “off” the first time and thought “wtf?”

That said, everyone in Finland with half a brain is with Phil here, especially those of us in IT. Maemo had better break out big or it’s back to “Työtön Työtön Työtön Työtön” and a day cruise to Tallinn as the annual high point…

I agree with N Williama, as an American you can’t take the free stuff, its just not in your blood. I was laid off during the Carter years, and was offered free food stamps, but thats a Nanny state road you go down and never come back on. So I refused and went to work in a 7-11 for the summer.

By the way Pack a gun if you ever work in a 7-11 store with gas.

There’s a lot of uncertainty all over the world right now. I can’t remember a worse time economically especially as in past recessions there were always other countries fairing better and needing skilled-workers.
Of course immigrants are the first out of a job and last to get back into employment. There is growing anti-immigrant sentiment through-out Europe. I wonder what the consequences are of being in debt and not being able to pay your debt back?
Troubling times indeed.

Well Phil, good luck… You certainly don’t want to become one of those “welfare bum immigrants” that Kai Pöntinen says is going to ruin the “Finnish way of life.” Check the archives of HS International….

Best of luck Phil. I went through this in 2000 and ended up moving back to the US, simply because that was where the job offers were coming from.

“Is the language barrier that huge of a deal?”
– If can be for many jobs. Of more importance for a non-Finn is the understanding that lack of Finnish is a sample excuse to give foreigners who they do not want to hire. when you learn the language, you’ll find out that Finnish is not to important, that you should have learned Swedish instead! (I was told this at one job interview.)
– That said, if you have a skill in need, they will be most willing to work around your lack of Finnish skills. I worked in the port as a damage surveyor one year. 12 of the 15 people who I worked with, including my boss, did not speak English. It was not a problem. Actually, that was one of the best jobs I ever had.

Phil, if you get into a situation where you can take money from the Finnish state, do ahead and do so without guilt. Many foreigners pay into the system there and are not eligible to collect. I was not able as my visa was for employment with one company only. That visa restriction also prevented the Työvoimatoimisto from assisting me.

One more thing, which you probably are doing already, is to not delay in reducing your expenses. Best of luck!

“Fewer foreigners than before are applying for a residence permit in Finland on the basis of work, the Finnish Immigration Service said in a statement Monday.”

Well I guess in bad time, Big company first get rid of they subcontractors i.e their buffer …so do the society.

In any case, I agree that somehow it was a mistake to have burden yourself with debt…unless you want to grow root under your feet and become a “voi kukka” in a green field i.e invisible and part of the sheeps that behave according to economical stimulus and newspaper propaganda.

It’s never to late to change and sometime changing life for good is better to fall into a depression…

Pöntinen is getting dangerously close to getting a lawsuit for inciting racism. If you check out his website, the vast majority of his statements about immigrants are complete bullshit. Heck, the kind of cheap populism he plays is so low that even the True Finns would not dare go that low.

I would say that the situation is not identical for all foreigners.

The ones from EU are exempt from visa troubles for instance. The others are not and that is adding much more pressure and stress.

In addition, are we entitled to say that the situation is difficult for us (I have been in Finland for 7+ years and my Finnish is really shaky) while we did not make the effort to learn Finnish properly ? I would say that we made a choice and we need to assume it. It is not like we did not know what we were doing, were we ?

PS: about taking language classes as immigrant training via the Työvoimatoimisto: if anyone feels that the genuinely achieved a suitable level of Finnish and want to positively avoid wasting time first passing through beginner’s level, simply sign up for the uniform national language testing (a.k.a. YKI) via e.g. Adulta or AmiEdu. Those tests are arranged several times a year and produce a diploma that assesses and attests to a certain level of proficiency. Since the immigrant training levels match those of precise YKI certification levels, you can show up with that degree in hand in Työvoimatoimisto and immediately skip beginner’s level. Please note that there are two possible tests to sign up for: intermediate level (asses skills according to level 3 or 4, arranged 4 times a year, cost about 70eur), or upper level (assesses skills according to level 5 or 6, arranged only twice a year, costs about 150eur). The upper level test amounts to native level skills and should not be attempted unless you intend upon becoming a translator or an academician. Besides, at about 150eur a pop, it’s one you don’t wanna take unless you absolutely need it. Anyhow, intermediate is the base level for citizenship applications, so it ought to be enough.

That only covers Finnish language classes, though.

Those who intend upon learning Swedish have a harder task ahead: convincing the Finnish-speaking majority at the Työvoimatoimisto that the Integration Act and Citizenship Act indeed DO imply equal opportunities to learn either of the two national languages. In practice, as recently confirmed to me by a top-ranking bureaucrat at the Ministry of Employment and Economy, Swedish simply isn’t offered in Finland, even in municipalities that have a Swedish-speaking majority. Heck, even in places like Vaasa, Swedish language classes are only organized extremely rarely and only after careful consideration for other possible sources of Swedish speakers among the Finnish majority and, even then, organizing the training requires the local Työvoimatoimisto to expressly make an exceptional decision (rinnastuspäätös) to offer the training, on a case-by-case basis and only if/when the public sector loudly complains about the lack of Swedish-speaking candidates for public sector jobs where speaking both national languages is considered a must.

The business of our company almost vanished last Fall, and we had to dive into the reserves. Almost every customer in the Czech Republic, Poland, and Hungary is insolvent, but our Finnish and Swedish projects are still on firm ground. If Finland now decides to build more nuclear power, we might get over this slump with minor scratches.

BTW, former business in the US folded a year ago with five $450k houses in their hands.

Martin-Éric, you have been misinformed by this so called top official at the Labour ministry. You are also wrong that Vaasa has a Swedish majority. You need to go back at least 75 years to find a Vasa with a Swedish-speaking majority. In fact, in many, if not all, of the municipalities with a Swedish-speaking majority (which are all relatively speaking very small in population), immigrant education (where arranged at all) is arranged most often principally in Swedish. These is absolutely the case in the Swedish majority municipalities in Österbotten. A number of studies have also shown that these areas have the best level of integration of immigrants in the country, unilingual Närpes is an example that has been highly praised.

You are however right that in the non-Swedish speaking majority municipalities there is a serious lack of courses available to immigrants who wish to learn Swedish as many of them don’t take the law seriously. Interesting a recent piece of research from the Magma think tank has shown that 67% of immigrants in the capital region would like to learn Swedish (and often directly infringe it in language matters). Particularly Russian immigrants were interested in learning Swedish, as a result of this, Folkhälsan is investigating starting a Swedish-Finnish-Russian language ‘språkbad’ (“language immersion”) kindergarten in Helsinki.

Not offering immigrants the chance to learn Swedish to at least some degree during their studies is really acting to promote discrimination against them in the future, should they wish to seek employment in a public sector role where a knowledge of both national languages is required.

The worst decision a immigrant could make is that they’ll learn “Swedish” instead of Finnish. SFP and it’s many propaganda machinery like Magma “think tank” notoriously know for it’s “manipulative” poll questions and need I go on about Folktinget.

Are the SFP still handing out those freudenthal medals?

It should not be a matter of Swedish or Finnish. Immigrants should get taught some of both. Obviously, most will probably want to concentrate on Finnish. But, in Swedish-speaking areas, it makes sense to learn Swedish as the main language. Imagine emigrating to Närpes and learning Finnish and no Swedish. You wouldn’t get very far in the job market. Likewise, if one learnt Swedish and no Finnish in Joensuu you would be jobless. So, policy needs to be made with an element of taking reality into account.

There is no reason why this can’t be done, especially to immigrant children. Don’t forget, most children from homes where both parents are Swedish-speaking enter school at 7 with no knowledge of Finnish. Yet, the emerge almost always with a very high level of fluency – more often than not at native-speaker level. Why would immigrant children be any different? I don’t think Swedish-speaking children have some form of miraculous language learning gene that other children lack.

What does SFP have to do with this? Swedish is an official language in Finland. SFP does not speak for all Swedish-speaking Finns. There are 200 members in parliament, 9 of which represent SFP. So, clearly this is something not down to SFP alone.

As for Magma, doubtless it has links with SFP. But having just looked at their website, this poll was actually conducted with Helsinki Times, which apparently is a newspaper in English in Helsinki for immigrants. It does not look particularly biased to me. You can see it yourself at magma.fi. No idea where Folktinget comes into this.

Getting laid off as a foreigner may be especially difficult, but it all balances out when you consider that getting laid as a foreigner is especially easy.

LOL!!! Yeah well I think most of us are married.

@8 @10 What’s all this “USA DNA” malarkey? You pays your taxes, you gets your benefits, it’s called a social compact. Don’t look a gift horse bank transfer in the mouth huh

By the way, I wonder what you all free-marketers are fretting about. Wall Street has declared this “recession” cancelled, and that’s all that matters.

You can tell the difference with Americans and Finns by the first few comments on this post. American DNA tells us when we are out of a job your screwed until you find a new one in Finland it’s don’t worry you have unemplyoment benefits. If your on unemplyoment in America you are screwed, plus it’s not as easy to get on in the US we make it so your less likely to take it. It’s the exact opposite here. We pay taxes for retirement and Medicad in the hopes we don’t need it, we all think our savings will be our main source of income.

American DNA tells us when we are out of a job your screwed until you find a new one in Finland it’s don’t worry you have unemplyoment benefits.

how much does Finnish unemployment pay and for how long? I was on it when I first moved here, it was a joke, like 400 euros a month. Of course, I hadn’t worked before then, so obviously it’s smaller.

The basic bennies of unemployemtn plus asumistuki don’t go real high. You’ll be tapping into savings, working black, or borrowing money. Check Kela’s website for the peruspäiväraha rate. It’s better if you’ve been in a union, then you get income-related unemployment money too (ansiosidonnainenpäiväraha).

@25. You are very right about this DNA difference. There is also one additional feature to add to that – I for one do not like or want to live on any social money. Of course there are short periods in everyone’s life when you have to depend on some aid but unlike some Finns – I don’t treat it as my eternal income source. Out of job I start looking for another one same minute. Or even before I am out.

Phil:
“how much does Finnish unemployment pay and for how long?”

http://www.tyj.fi/default.asp?id=92&docid=61
http://www.tyj.fi/default.asp?id=92&docid=259

Of course, if you don’t meet the conditions, none of this applies and you’re on the basic KELA allowance. In that case, welcome to the world of the much-envied welfare leech.

@Franklin – thanks for that link. It seems like a normal person gets 1/3rd their salary for quite a while – Any idea how much unemployment one receives in the states?

@30 That’s gonna depend on the state, eh? And there’s gonna be an issue of residency. Welcome to Mississippi = Starve and die you bum

“Any idea how much unemployment one receives in the states?”

Well, if Nokia has not been paying unemployment insurance for you in the US, you won’t be able to collect any unemployment in the US.

Unemployment is different for each state and it is possible to move around and shop for the best payment even if you were paying in another state. Of course, if you do move back to the US, it is a good idea to identify where your best prospects are.

Maybe you can find some remote work that you can do from Finland?

Jonas: and if you actually read the Helsinki Times article and the accompanying material on Magma’s site, you would have noticed that I was involved in it and for good reasons: I’ve been in touch with Folktinget on this issue for a very long time.

The amount of work involved to fill out the paper work with työvoimatoimisto and KELA takes more time than finding part time work in the service industry.

I seriously doubt many people live as welfare bums, in any country, outside of investment bankers in the Bailout State.

27: No need for union membership in order to get ansiosidonnainen (income-based unemployment benefits). There are independent unemployment funds, such as YTK, which you can join. Besides, the law guarantees you the right to join any unemployment fund, even the union ones, without there being any attached requirement of union membership.

Unions have for decades tried to form a link in the popular perception between union membership and ansiosidonnainen, and have succeeded fairly well.

“23.@8 @10 What’s all this “USA DNA” malarkey? You pays your taxes, you gets your benefits, it’s called a social compact. Don’t look a gift horse bank transfer in the mouth huh”

some of us don’t pick the pockets of our friends.

Its really that simple

Well i just went through a similar scare exercise at work. Like Phil I am an American with a house and kids and I am not ready to return just yet. My Finnish is rather poor after 4 years but I am trying to learn something every day. Losing my job here in Finland would amount to packing back and moving back to the USA.

I was part of the Nokia layoff exercise last month and let me tell you that finding another job even within the company wasnt easy. I finally landed one but it was extremely difficult.

I have Finnish friends who have been out of jobs for months (average 8 months) and the great majority are still working. I imagine how much more difficult it would be for me to find something decent without knowing Finnish well

Phil:
“@Franklin – thanks for that link. It seems like a normal person gets 1/3rd their salary for quite a while”

Um, I take it you weren’t a math major? Look again.

Phil… don’t take any handout. Its just picken the pockets of your friends. I went 2 months, never took a dime, and when you get that new job you feel much better not taking Nanny State money.

Its the American thing to do……..frack the government

Hi Martin-Éric, I am afraid I had never heard of Helsinki Times newspaper until I looked up the survey’s full details on Magma’s website. I read about the research in Hufvudstadsbladet. But I am glad that you are working with this issue, it is important that the authorities in those all too many areas that are neglecting this matter do something to rectify their shortfallings. The more people that complain, the more difficulty they will have sweeping these things under the carpet.

“It should not be a matter of Swedish or Finnish.”

It matter to the immigrant for the other has more job opportunities and the other not so much. Plus the society isn’t swedish at all with the exception of ankdammen

“Immigrants should get taught some of both.”

If the resources are scarce then one should focus on the language of the majority

“Obviously, most will probably want to concentrate on Finnish. But, in Swedish-speaking areas, it makes sense to learn Swedish as the main language.”

Propably but what happens when he/she doesn’t have a job anymore in that small area?

“Imagine emigrating to Närpes and learning Finnish and no Swedish. You wouldn’t get very far in the job market.”

Sure but how many immigrants are going to move to närpes so that it would make sense to educate them all in swedish?

“Likewise, if one learnt Swedish and no Finnish in Joensuu you would be jobless. So, policy needs to be made with an element of taking reality into account.”

I agree

“There is no reason why this can’t be done, especially to immigrant children.”

Are you suggesting that the children of immigrants should learn swedish instead of finnish as a main language? If so they won’t get far in life, not in this country

“Don’t forget, most children from homes where both parents are Swedish-speaking enter school at 7 with no knowledge of Finnish. Yet, the emerge almost always with a very high level of fluency – more often than not at native-speaker level.”

statistics?

“Why would immigrant children be any different? I don’t think Swedish-speaking children have some form of miraculous language learning gene that other children lack.”

small children learn languages very fast and I am amazed that the families where both parents use swedish as a main language don’t teach their children finnish at all. A very bad move if you wan’t to move out of the small circles of the swedish community.

“What does SFP have to do with this?”

They advocate the policy of teaching swedish as a main instead of finnish to immigrants, to artificially pump the amount of swedish speaking population so that they’ll be able to maintain their own priviledges. In my opinion this will be their downfall

“Swedish is an official language in Finland.”

Yes but Finland is not a bilingual country.

“SFP does not speak for all Swedish-speaking Finns.”

I wonder why? maybe it’s because their politics suck.

“There are 200 members in parliament, 9 of which represent SFP. So, clearly this is something not down to SFP alone.”

They are a major player or how do you explain the fact that they have been sitting in the government for over 30 years. They even have the same amount of ministers as the greens which is twice the size of SFP.

“As for Magma, doubtless it has links with SFP. But having just looked at their website, this poll was actually conducted with Helsinki Times,”

Who formulated the poll questions?

“which apparently is a newspaper in English in Helsinki for immigrants. It does not look particularly biased to me.”

Yes it does if the poll is ordered by a special interest group hell bent on promoting the benefits of swede-finns.

“You can see it yourself at magma.fi.”

I have been there and their intentions are clear

“No idea where Folktinget comes into this.”

It’s just a worse version of Magma

You still didn’t answer my guestion. Does the SFP still give out the medals of the racialist “godfather” of the SFP?

Every state is nanny and cares even to send nanny soldiers abroad, asphalt the roads, build libraries, parks, squares, buses boats and metros, but in the future all this may be just privately owned.

This is the original Helsinki Times article:

http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/domestic-news/general/6243-finlands-foreign-community-interested-in-learning-swedish.html

Hi EVeryone..
so it looks like i am not the only American here in finland.
i currently live in Helsinki..i am 21 years old..
as i have for the past 4 months.i met a woman online and i wasnt doing all that well in the states not going to go into details but lets just say that i was smoking alot of that green sticky..lol
i met her and i had her come visit me there in tennessee and idk what happened man…
so anyways.. i came here to be with her and i asked her to marry me and we are now married..she is now pregnant with my kid..
life just seems to be getting harder and harder. she is loosing her job soon she works at mtv3 doing graphic design.
i applied for my first residence permit and it takes up to 6 months i have been waiting two months now..
as for money we are fucked like a duck…
if i was in the states it wouldnt be any trouble to get a job somewhre to support my wife ..
as for the above statements about not wanting to take free money..
i agree 100% its just not in my blood.i have always worked and earned my own money ever since i got my first job when i was 15.
i dont know how to speak Finnish either so when i get my first residence permit it still wont help any..
god what have i done this time..lol
i ahve dug myself a hole and i have to get myself out of it..
i came here only wearing a pair of shorts and a t-shirt and a jacket and my mp3 player.
now i have a wife and a baby on the way.
ha welcome to Finland!

As a Finn it makes me very angry that some arrogant foreigners want to learn Swedish instead of Finnish. Swedish is the language which was used to oppress the Finnish people for hundreds of years (and partly is still with its official position and pakkoruotsi). The Finland-Swedes are the most arrogant and the most pampered minority in the world. They still try to tell us, the Finnish speaking majority, what to do (and thanks to our sheeplike politicians they are often successfull). When you ally with them, it feels like you’re ganging up against us. It’s like you’re saying “fuck you” to the Finnish majority.

SFP is a political party founded on racism against the Finnish people. Read about the party’s history and background. I’m glad that SFP will lose it’s only seat in the European Parliament on sunday’s election.

By the way, Kai Pöntinen didn’t even demand an end to immigration – he merely said that we should not take immigrants who are welfare bums. Do you disagree about that? Do you really think we need more welfare bums? There was nothing racist in his demand.

Criticism against immigration is increasing as we speak. It’s less of a taboo now. I myself will always vote for anti-immigraton candidates, this sunday too.

I will not allow my culture to be replaced by multiculturalism, I will not allow the selling of the sacred Finnish land to foreigners, I will not allow our pure nation to be replaced by foreign ones, I will not allow our Christian heritage to be replaced by Islam. We will take this country back to us Finns.

I am not sure that Finnsense’s suggestion is prudent. If you own your own business, you aren’t eligible for unemployment benefits.

Jaska, as a foreigner learning Sewdish, I don’t think that we are learning Swedish because we are arrogant. It’s an easier language and allows us to communicate with many Finns, Danes, Swedes and Norwegians. My company, along with many others I know of are Swedish speaking. Your anger reminds me of stories I have been told by older Swedish-speaking Finns. It used to be dangerous to speak Swedish in public in many places because Finnish speakers would harass and attack the Swedish speakers just because of the language they spoke.

@44

Go home troll… and pick a fight with your lunatic friends

same words.Jaska – go and kill yourself. Finland definitely needs less idiots like you.

@45
“It used to be dangerous to speak Swedish in public in many places because Finnish speakers would harass and attack the Swedish speakers just because of the language they spoke.”

Back then Finnish patriots weren’t shy about defending our Finnish heritage. We need activism like that nowadays as well.

@47
Are you a Finn or a foreigner? I you are a foreigner you certainly have no right to say what Finland needs.

Instead we have the right to say that the world, hence Suomi too, needs less fascists (less sexists and less talibans)

And I will say that Finland’s needs do not depend on the needs of the rest of the world, especially if “the world’s needs” are defined by socialist hippies advocating a religion called multiculturalism.

You should rather go somewhere else than back to the USA. In this upcoming financial meltdown (we are some 5 months away from it), countries full of raw materials will be best off. The USA is doomed with the dollar being rubbished by the FED that is as federal as federal express. The Chinese don’t buy US bonds any more and I guess we will see a default together with the UK. So if you move on and out of Finland, either Australia or Canada seem to be the best options right now. Within Europe only Norway is secured with all its oil. GB will go bust soon and the Euro will also suffer because of too much money printing (= huge inflation). Actually, Australia should currently be the best country to head for. Even Switzerland is not a good option any more with USB and CreditSwiss as ghost banks full of toxic crap and the Swiss central bank engaging big times in “quantitative easing” (money printing) which equals inflation creation. Remember inflation is the elite’s way of fingering your bank account without even breaking into the bank.

Are you a Finn or a foreigner? I you are a foreigner you certainly have no right to say what Finland needs.

That’s for me to know anf for you to guess.

As a clear racist and nationalist you have no right to speak at all. You should be put to gas chamber or other suitable place. Thank god Finland has Swedes and other nationalities here. Think of this country filled with Jaskas only. Horror.

@52
“You should be put to gas chamber or other suitable place.”

It’s interesting that with our treasonous anti-Finnish government you can freely threaten ordinary Finns with death, like above, but if I were to use the same rhetorics against immigrants I’d be in court. It seems we have two laws nowadays: one for ethnic Finns and one for foreigners. The government has truly sacrificed its own people on the altar of multiculturalism.

Please leave Finland. If you’re a foreigner, go back to your homecountry. If you’re a Finnish socialist, emigrate to North-Korea. We’ll both be happy.

pathetic comments

When I think of Jaska defending his version of Finnish heritage, I have to wonder what he thinks of those Finlandssvensk who gave their lives defending Finland in the Winter and Continuation wars. They spoke Swedish. They were Finns. They gave their lives for their country.

But because they spoke the wrong language, they deserve no honor in Jaska’s History of Finland.

And their offspring have to fight redneck Jaskas for the right to speak whatever hell language they want to speak. Jaska’s grandfathers fought side by side with soldiers speaking Swedish, and they were good enough for Finland then.

For all he knows, he has Swedish in his family. Can he trace his line back 500 or so years? The only _true_ Finns are Sami, if you go back far enough. Maybe ole Jaska here is 100% pure Sami, but I somehow doubt it. If you’re not 100% Sami, then your ancestors came from elsewhere. Probably Sweden. So much for being purely Finnish.

That’s the beauty of revisionist history. You can make it say what you want, as long as it fits your myopic hateful view of the world. You stay classy, Jaska. Keep on peddling backwards while everyone else goes forward.

Am I going to convert a racist here? I mean come on, the guy is differentiating on different forms of Nordic. The Jaskas of the world would rather not see us progress and prosper, so they’re welcome to their natural decline and disappearance into obscurity.

So be an attention whore in a blog Jaska, it’s the only notoriety you’ll ever have.

“If you’re not 100% Sami, then your ancestors came from elsewhere. Probably Sweden.”

Probably Mongolia

Obvious troll, is obvious.

Knowledge of the Swedish language (in addition to totally fluent Finnish) is still a basic requirement to work in the public sector. In some cases, very basic Swedish skills suffice. In other cases, totally fluent Swedish skills with extensive knowledge of sector-specific professional jargon are an absolute must.

Meanwhile, the business world usually bundles Finland with the other Nordic countries, so Swedish skills tend to be a must there too, if you work in Sales/Marketing.

However, only Finnish can be learned via immigrant labor training. This puts skilled foreign professionals who are living here at a serious disadvantage, whenever they intend upon working in the public sector or in Nordic Sales/Marketing.

While I perfectly agree that common sense is to learn Finnish first and to become totally fluent at that before anything else, Swedish is still needed too and, for as long as it’s needed, there must be a possibility to learn it via intensive classes, the same way that Finnish classes are offered.

Pöntinen doesn’t even have his facts right. The reality is that, unless someone lives in Närpes (the only Swedish monolingual municipality in mainland Finland) or in one of the municipalities in the Åland archipelago, it’s simply not possible to learn Swedish as an immigrant labor training AT ALL.

Even in bilingual municipalities with a Swedish majority, immigrant labor training focuses on Finnish language skills and very few exceptions are made to this. One Työvoimatoimisto bureaucrat with about 20 years at the same office, to whom I spoke, recalls a single case where her office organized Swedish labor training and, even then, that was only intended for *Finnish* speakers who needed to improve their Swedish to work in international sales and it was organized strictly at the explicit request of the regional TE-keskus and for a very small group of people.

What I proposed to the Ministry is in line with the above common practice of only offering Swedish training to Finnish speakers and only in the extremely rare case when the local TE-keskus finds it necessary to offer the class. It only adds a clarification on which people with a foreign background should also be allowed to sign up for the Swedish classes: those who already passed YKI Finnish level 4 certification or better.

Anyone with half a brain should notice that this proposal makes the whole task of planing and delivering such a training very simple and cost-effective, in a quite pragmatic way: the TE-keskus only needs to focus on *one* language of tuition (Finnish) as the starting point for its Swedish classes, instead of trying to anticipate for separate groups with English or Russian as the starting point, plus the focus remains on teaching Finnish as the primary integration language for immigrants.

PS: so, no, Mr.Pöntinen, Swedish is not being taught as the first language to immigrants. Unless those immigrants live in Närpes or Åland, Finnish is the only language they can learn via the Työvoimatoimisto as immigrant labor training.

PPS: I would gladly be proven wrong on this one. That is, I’d love to see proof of immigrants outside of Åland and Närpes being taught Swedish via the Työvoimatoimisto’s immigrant labor training.

Unfortunately, something tells me that demonstrating this would require Pöntinen to divulge the magic spell that immigrants need to quote at the Työvoimatoimisto to qualify for Swedish classes. Sadly, divulging this well-kept secret would suddenly turn his most dreaded nightmare into a reality, as hordes of FFT readers would suddenly drop their Finnish classes and sign up for Swedish classes instead.

*shrugs*

Heck, I’m gonna up the ante a bit and hereby offer Pöntinen a non-public opportunity to divulge how an immigrant can qualify for Swedish classes as immigrant labor training, by directly contacting me in private. As it turns out, I already left his team a message via the contact form at kaipontinen.fi, so the ball is in their camp.

If he indeed manages to demonstrate in a documentable and repeatable way the exact procedure an immigrant needs to follow to succeed at obtaining migrant labor training in Swedish language and if I can successfully use his instructions to get an immigrant of my choosing to register for those classes, I agree to retract publicly on FFT and to confirm that he was right.

Personally, I’m not holding my breath on this ever happening.

@55
“The only _true_ Finns are Sami”

The Sami are not, nor have ever been, Finns. They are a people of their own. There is no real evidence to suggest that the Sami lived in Southern Finland in the past. Nor is there any real evidence to back the theory that the Finns ever migrated to Finland en masse. Finns were the original inhabitants of Finland, while the Sami were the original inhabitants of Lapland only.

#59. http://racialreality.110mb.com/tatc.html

“Fueled by rising unemployment and food prices, the number of Americans on food stamps is poised to exceed 30 million for the first time this month, surpassing the historic high set in 2005 after Hurricane Katrina.”…that is from November 2008.

For more, one out of six Americans relies now on checks coming from the government. So much for “it is not in our DNA”-talk

Winter: NOW you are saying USA is collapsing?! Year after year in this website I warned about this crap and all the time you said back “no no, USA number one, never gonna happen!”.

BUT but when Obama aka democrat came to power, you republican numnuts all of sudden wake up and see the reality?! And of course it is all Obama’s fault. No way it could be St. King DumbFuck’s aka Dubya’s fault….

You brainwashed wingnut probably die thinking Ronald Reagan was the greatest American president ever. And if some poor American kid close to you dies in Irag, he is a great hometown hero, died for noble cause, right?

“William Motley: i came here only wearing a pair of shorts and a t-shirt and a jacket and my mp3 player.
now i have a wife and a baby on the way.
ha welcome to Finland!”

Don’t worry, your wife and especially the baby coming is priority number one case for Finnish social services. They won’t let you down, whenever there is a baby involved, it opens all the doors in the system.

They will even find for your family a rental apartment if necessary. Nothing fancy but it is a start. Those high taxes paid still give you something back in Finland…

Phil I feel for you. Especially after knowing what happened to Constantinescu. I remember you back on S60 blogs. I used to love the podcasts. When I first heard your podcast I thought to myself: what a great innovative way for the company (Nokia) to introduce people to their platform. Nokia has you to thank for making me interested in S60 and buying their devices.

Is this how Nokia is thanking people like you? By laying you off?

Not to bash Nokia but what exiting have they done lately? Same old sorry OS in uninspiring devices.

Back when you were with the S60 blogs I could feel the excitement nowdays there is stagnation.

Sad.

Jaska: please go educate yourself on Etelä-Karjala’s history, before you come here claiming that there is no proof that the Same ever lived in Southern Finland.

Sami are Sami.

Finns are Mongolians

I think we will see a move to the right in the EU elections. Anti-immigration policies are becoming more popular throughout Europe and not just Finland.
I just wish that those talking about reducing or stopping immigration would understand that a key part of being in the European Union is that there are open borders. To stop immigration into Finland totally, would mean that Finland leaves the EU. It would also mean a ban on Finnish people marrying foreign spouses.
Multi-culturalism is a very different issue to immigration and Finland is no where near becoming a multi-cultural society.
The best advice I can give someone who is worried about losing their job is to join an unemployment fund. As I understand it the person who is unemployed gets 60% of their salary for 500 working days. Please correct me if I’m wrong about this.

Well, Närpes is not the only unilingual Swedish municipality on the mainland. There are three I believe. I would hazard a guess at Larsmo and Korsnäs being the other two… but I may be wrong as I don’t have time to look it up just now. There are many others that have only recently become bilingual with Finnish, Kronoby Pedersöre, Malax etc, many in Åboland archipelago etc, which are effectively still by and large unilingual Swedish.

There are certainly immigrants who have learnt primarily Swedish in also bilingual municipalities with Swedish majorities. My wife is from just outside Ekenäs and I have meant Chinese people in Ekenäs who learnt Swedish not Finnish when they arrived. So, it even happens in Nyland/Uusimaa – not just restricted to Österbotten. Whether this is organised by the Labour Ministry or the municipalities directly, I do not know. I know in the 1990s at least, it was very common that the Labour ministry effectively subcontracted language education to municipal adult education (the so-called Citizen’s Institutes, Worker’s Institutes etc). Perhaps the Labour Ministry does not organise directly itself anything in Finnish, that could be why the said official thinks as they do. Or they could just have no familiarity with Swedish-speaking areas. I really don’t know, I am not an expert in the matter.

Jaska amuses me. Particularly the comment at 6.06 on 6/6. Shows a complete absence of historical knowledge and an utter intolerance of any group that is not the majority.

“To stop immigration into Finland totally, would mean that Finland leaves the EU. It would also mean a ban on Finnish people marrying foreign spouses.”

Sounds good. EU only restricts our soveraignity. Finns should marry Finns.

“Jaska amuses me. Particularly the comment at 6.06 on 6/6. Shows a complete absence of historical knowledge”

I am an history student at the University of Helsinki.

So Jaska, the Nazi idiot just proved to us all what is the HIGH education level in Finland like.
You are not even qualified to wipe the floors at any European university, you poor soul searching for your finnish roots.

But one thing you are right: no foreigner should ever marry a creepy thing like Jaska – leave her or him to a Finn to suffer with.

Tussuka and Jaska are a match made in heaven. Do I hear wedding bells?

No, that is your ward nurse coming with some tranquilizers for you dumbass.

Oh the irony, it’s killing me. Mussukka and Jaska you two should go to one of those open mic nights. It would be a hoot.

#75: Tussuhukka,

Aw… come on now, sweetie. Freeridin’s got a point. After all, you’re not a racist and enjoy trying out new things away from home, right? I can definitely see you two holding hands and sharing opinions about the world over a candle light dinner of nice chateaubriand and an exotic salad

Oh, another dick joining the happy trio:) Or is the same solo playing trio?
Btw. one more comment to that “Finns should marry Finns”. Perhaps brothers should marry sisters as you already do in some “civilized” parts of forestlandia? Then there will be even more Finnish mutants as we already encountered on this blog.

“Or is the same solo playing trio?”

We don’t know. We’re just voices inside your head.

“Perhaps brothers should marry sisters as you already do in some “civilized” parts of forestlandia?”

Thats a great complement, especially coming from a proper european like you. Where it was a common custom for royals to only marry family members. The same was especially true with the great Egyptian empire and various other kingdoms and empires thoughout history.

There is a huge difference between a simpleton woodpecker Finn screwing his next to kin because he can’t find a better option and a dynasty beliving in their royal blood preserving (didn’t serve them well either therefore later the foreign princessas would come to marry a local prince).

Cunt vel Elorado prick vel Franklin turtle – you are such a sad Finnish prat that I won’t waste my time anymore to comment your mumbling. Pricks like you make us foreigners depressed in this country.

If I was a foreigner living in Finland I think I would not want to be in Mussukkatussukka´s “US foreigners” group.

“There is a huge difference between a simpleton woodpecker Finn screwing his next to kin because he can’t find a better option and a dynasty beliving in their royal blood preserving”

Actually it’s worse when there’s an idealogical reason for incest than the simple fact of distance to the next settlement somewhere in the woods. Besides incest happens in your beloved Central Europe even today just like in every other country you can mention.

“(didn’t serve them well either therefore later the foreign princessas would come to marry a local prince)”

They were still relatives. All the european royal families are products of centuries of “breeding”.

“Cunt vel Elorado prick vel Franklin turtle – you are such a sad Finnish prat that I won’t waste my time anymore to comment your mumbling.”

Ah, so your new medication has kicked in already. We are only mumbling in your delusional mind. I guess it’s progress.

“Pricks like you make us foreigners depressed in this country.”

You deserve to be depressed and by the way who made you the spoke person for all the “foreigners” in Finland. Was it CMQ – The Grand Dragon of the White Hood?

You still need improvement on your insulting skills. They are still dull and moronic.

Presso,

You wouldn’t be able to join her group unless you’re seriously into burning crosses and wearing white hoods… and I gather that’s not your thing either

Tussuka:
“Pricks like you make us foreigners depressed in this country.”

What is truly sad is that we can’t make you leave. With the world of opportunities, exotic salad feasts and rivers of Merlot for a gifted individual such as yourself out there and all.

Tussuhukka:

“Pricks like you make us foreigners depressed in this country.”

Wow… I never thought I could make someone who’s a couple of thousand miles away depressed. The marvels of modern technology…

Where’s your flag burning rally taking place this weekend? Did Grand Wizard CQM bump up your status yet or are you still a hangaround/prospect?

“There is a huge difference between a simpleton woodpecker Finn screwing his next to kin because he can’t find a better option and a dynasty beliving in their royal blood preserving”

Actually it’s worse when there’s an idealogical reason for incest than the simple fact of distance to the next settlement somewhere in the woods. Besides incest happens in your beloved Central Europe even today just like in every other country you can mention.

“(didn’t serve them well either therefore later the foreign princessas would come to marry a local prince)”

They were still relatives. All the european royal families are products of centuries of “breeding”.

“Cunt vel Elorado prick vel Franklin turtle – you are such a sad Finnish prat that I won’t waste my time anymore to comment your mumbling.”

Ah, so your new medication has kicked in already. We are only mumbling in your delusional mind. I guess it’s progress.

“Pricks like you make us foreigners depressed in this country.”

You deserve to be depressed and by the way who made you the spoke person for all the “foreigners” in Finland. Was it CMQ – The Grand Dragon of the White Hood?

You still need improvement on your insulting skills. They are still dull and moronic.

Phil check your spam guard

“There is a huge difference between a simpleton woodpecker Finn screwing his next to kin because he can’t find a better option and a dynasty beliving in their royal blood preserving”

Actually it’s worse when there’s an idealogical reason for incest than the simple fact of distance to the next settlement somewhere in the woods. Besides incest happens in your beloved Central Europe even today just like in every other country you can mention.

“(didn’t serve them well either therefore later the foreign princessas would come to marry a local prince)”

They were still relatives. All the european royal families are products of centuries of “breeding”.

“Cunt vel Elorado prick vel Franklin turtle – you are such a sad Finnish prat that I won’t waste my time anymore to comment your mumbling.”

Ah, so your new medication has kicked in already. We are only mumbling in your delusional mind. I guess it’s progress.

“Pricks like you make us foreigners depressed in this country.”

You deserve to be depressed and by the way who made you the spoke person for all the “foreigners” in Finland. Was it CMQ – The Grand Dragon of the White Hood?

You still need improvement on your insulting skills. They are still dull and moronic.

Youll take KELA when you find yourself chewing on your shoes…to much pride = starvation

Phil, while you and I disagree on almost everything, the only thing that I could say about your situation is that I certainly wish you the best and that you will still be able to keep your job in Finland.

You sure are right about the job situation with foreigners. I think it’s the same with local people too, though depending a lot on the city you’re living in. Only places I can think of for foreigners to work in are some sort of multinational or international companies, or then IB Programme (international high scool). At least in our school there’s a lack of teachers, but the thing might be different in other schools. Native English speaker teachers are appreciated withing this programme, though.
But anyways I hope you find yourself a nice job and keep up the blog, it’s really interesting to read (:

A little correction to:

“Getting laid off as a foreigner is especially difficult”

I am sure you meant:

“Getting laid as a foreigner is especially difficult”