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8.3.2009

Puhutko Suomea?

Tags: Everything — Author:   @ 3:35 pm

At least for the past year, I have been fairly strict about a self-imposed rule that I follow. You see, I don’t often get many chances to practice my Finnish anymore, so besides the hour and a half of my weekly “textbook” Finnish class, (a different language entirely from spoken language, I might add) I really don’t ever use it. That is why, when I go to a store, the bank, a restaurant, etc., I have to speak Finnish. If they switch over to English, then whatever, I tried, and sometimes I continue in Finnish. This works fairly well most of the time, even when I know I am making errors; maybe my scrappiness is seen as some strange form of sisu, struggling onwards, in spite of my lack of awareness of the distinctly different sounds produced by double consonants vs. single consonants. I still cannot differentiate my own speech with words like “kukka” and “kuka.”

Something strange  happens when you are constantly surrounded by a language that you don’t understand. Sometimes you become overly defensive, relying too heavily on body language, and you may become paranoid, imagining everyone is laughing at you or reveling in the stupidity of the inept “kielitaidaton.” Even when you are in sticky or important situations where you insist you don’t understand or speak Finnish, the sometimes stubborn persistence you encounter, of people continuing to speak Finnish, almost willing you to, (it’s so easy if you just listen, idiot,) can sometimes be maddening and calls for desperate measures. I have had too many extreme experiences to always be open minded that people are going to consistently be patient and understanding with you as a person learning a language, and it leaves me a little weary when every time I speak Finnish I feel like I am about to step in a huge pile of dog, well, you get the idea.

Recently, at a birthday party, I asked the bar tender, “Hei. Saisinko yks Lonkero, ja yks cokis, kiitos.”

“Yeah, let’s just do this in English, okay. It’s easier for everyone,” the guy said, a little too gruffly.

Astonished at how rude he was, I asked him if he was the only bartender.

“Yep, you have to deal with me,” he said, laughing.

“Right, that’s okay, I think I’m not really thirsty tonight anyway.” I said, refusing to support jackass behavior.

I puffed off, ready to either scream or cry. I told my astonished friends, who were ready to rip this guy a new one, when I saw him leave the bar and head over towards me.

(Step in dogsh*t feeling, insert here, mixed with sheer panic.) Now what, I thought.

“Hey did I offend you or something?” he asked, with the concern of a robot.

Honesty is the best policy, so here goes, I thought.

“Yeah, you did.” I started. “Look, I’m trying, and I’m sorry if I made a mistake or if my accent is off or whatever, but I am trying to speak your language and you didn’t have to be so rude!”

“Ah, the Finnish?” he asked.

“Yeah, my Finnish,” I answered.

“You see, I don’t speak Finnish, I am French, and I speak French, and English, is it a problem?”

(Dogsh*t feeling times ten. A mountain of it.)

“OH! I’m so sorry,” I said, my face a beetroot now. “I didn’t realize, I thought you were making fun of me!”

“No I’m sorry,” he says, and offers, “ Hey, what do you want to drink? Whatever you like, on the house,” he insists.

“I’m really, really, sorry,” I continue.

“It’s okay,” he says. “Those Finnish guys can be real assholes when you don’t speak the language, eh?”

Pretty rich coming from a French guy, I think, I can’t help erupting into laughter, the tension of embarrassment is just too much now.

  • Hopearakas

    Hehe, that is fun.
    Having lived here for more than 15 years, I have encountered numerous occasions as such – “should I speak Finnish or English?” Although most of the time I use English at work and with friends, these days it has become as a norm that I open my mouth in Finnish in shops and bars and so on.

    The fact for language is if you do not use it, you do not learn it.
    To be honest, I do not think Finnish is any more difficult to learn than other languages. On the contrary, it is more logical and easier to speak than English! My experience is that the difficult part to learn Finnish often is a result that Finns in general speak pretty well in English (and many other languages). This is particularly true in the capital area and big cities. In a meeting room, if there is even just one foreigner (among 10 Finns), the meeting language is automatically switched to English. Almost 9 out 10 cases of Finnish-foreign marriage I know, the common language is English. In such common cases, the difficulty for foreigners to learn Finnish is the much needed self-imposed discipline and stubborn insistence.

    Another difficulty I notice is that foreigners in the capital area and big cities do not spend the major part of their time in interacting with “real” Finns. Here, I would not take Finnish spouses as “real” Finns, nor a big part of the colleagues at work. They are too readily to speak English with you, and they all know you all too well. More than often, the starting language you communicate with them is the one you stick with forever. That “starting” language is mostly English. My personal experience with “real” Finns are those who hardly speak any English, too shy to speak with foreigners (or any strangers), people who have worked in the same job for the past 20 years, people who live away from the big cities or in the countryside.

    As for your bar incident, I would not go that far as not to have a drink at all. And after all, usually I would not even utter that many words as you did but just “iso olut ja lonkero” :)

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    Megsu is back!! Yay!!!! We missed you!!

  • v.i.lenin

    I too try to use Finnish, but my speaking level misleads people into thinking my Finnish is better than it actually is, and I’m disappointed at how quickly I have to bail sometimes — the arkikieli always throws me

  • http://www.finlandforthought.net Phil

    Haha, great story.

  • http://www.cwcnow.com Holly

    Boy did I relate to this story! Good job!

  • http://nirbhay-hindsight.blogspot.com/ Nirbhay

    That was worth a smile :)
    bein in finland 4 a month now, i’m kind f lovin this blog.

  • Punde

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysg_FoWOue8 Now that would be rude if it happened in Finnish/Swedish. But funny.

  • http://www.awa.dk/glosary/slainte.htm sig

    A couple of notes… just ideas I got when reading your text

    > I have been fairly strict about a self-imposed rule that I follow

    you never mention what that rule is… hopefully not not speaking Finnish (:

    > I still cannot differentiate my own speech with words like “kukka” and “kuka.”

    Doesn’t matter a bit. No one cares, really, unless you’re specifically talking about flowers, or something.

    > the sometimes stubborn persistence you encounter, of people continuing to speak Finnish, almost willing you to, (it’s so easy if you just listen, idiot,) can sometimes be maddening and calls for desperate measures.

    so you want people to talk to you in Finnish or not? When I’m abroad I try to catch the language, and what better way than to practise, in practice!

    Mut pidä lippu korkeella, kyl se siitä. Juttele vaikka Neil Hardwickin kanssa joskus, miten oppiminen oikein sujuu (: ja kannattaa muistaa, ettei aksentitonta suomea voi kukaan oppia, joka ei o sekä suomessa syntynyt että suomenkielinen. Täydellinen aksentti on todellakin asia, josta ei pidä ressata.

  • reiska

    I’m a native Finnish speaker. When I was younger, it was actually really hard to understand even slightly erroneous Finnish. Somehow even small errors or an accent just completely distract me.

    I guess it has something to do with only being used to hearing almost perfect Finnish. Now that I have been interacting more with non-native speakers, it is much easier.

    I think that native English speakers are used to hearing all kinds of accents and bad language very early. But the number of non-native Finnish speakers is so small that many Finns just don’t encounter that many non-native speakers that they are easily distracted by even a slight accent or minor errors.

  • http://ymb.jaiku.com mike

    i have to agree with reiska, i think it is that most native Finnish speakers are just not used to having to deal with non-native speakers for extended conversations.

    Things that are simple (or near automatic) for an English native speakers to do to make their speach easier to understand may not be as obvious to the native Finnish speaker.
    As i see it the list would be something like; slowing down a little (but only a little bit, as too much can actually make it harder to understnad!), simplifying the sentance, not using slang words, putting slightly longer pauses between sentances.

    It is the “simplifying the sentance” that is the tricky bit, as most people never hear the “meta-language” that learners use and understand, they don’t know/understand *what* the non-native person is saying, or get confused as to the ability level.

    Hope that made sense ;)

  • Anonymous

    “My personal experience with “real” Finns are those who hardly speak any English, too shy to speak with foreigners (or any strangers), people who have worked in the same job for the past 20 years, people who live away from the big cities or in the countryside.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMBh_rz9R7s

    That guy is from KEMPELE, FINLAND

    I’ve met people who have lived their lives in Helsinki but can’t speak that well.

  • Hopearakas

    This guy sure is some exception. Being a ice-hockey player, usually I would expect him to speak English like a rally driver :) But then again, having lived in the U.S. for 3 years maybe has done his English quite some good.

    But hey, Kempele is right next to the big city Oulu. And anyway, living in Helsinki does not necessarily mean you speak well English. By “real” Finns there is of course some sort of generalization.

  • Anonymous

    “This guy sure is some exception. Being a ice-hockey player, usually I would expect him to speak English like a rally driver But then again, having lived in the U.S. for 3 years maybe has done his English quite some good.”

    Well, this one is from Tampere but been in the States since 2000.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egJ-MwogGBk

    …and this one is from Turku and been in the States since 1999.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuKddWrdb8Q

    So I think your reasoning just went out the window :D ..no hard feelings though.

  • Hopearakas

    Umm … I don’t really get what “reasoning” you refer to.

    The main point here is if you don’t use a language, you do not learn it.
    However, if you use a language very much, it does not necessarily mean you learn it very well.
    That is when I mentioned “real” Finns.

    For some Finn who has lived long in Helsinki and still does not speak well English, I am not surprised.
    I would be surprised, though, to meet some Finn who has lived all his life in Pudasjärvi and speak well English like that Pekka Rinne AND very eager to talk to foreigners.

    From my experience, the more a foreigner mingles with some “real” Finns (for example, people who live in Pudasjärvi and do not speak any English), the more chance the foreigner learns to speak proper Finnish. It is not just the language you would learn with them, but also the way to speak and behave like a Finn.

  • El Capone

    Good points, Hopearakas. Finally someone with a brain… welcome!

    There are too many rabid Mussuka/Tussukas, etc. here flexing their limited brain synapses :-)

  • Mussuka

    Voi voi, what an “intelligent remark” from El Capone:))

    As for mingling with the “real” Finns – you must be crazy to suggest something like this.
    You mean, a well behaving, nicely speaking, friendly, eager to help you with a missing word in English, open-minded Finn is not a good company and not a “real” Finn? Well, I at least skip those Viking like types and manage to do well without sataning, perkelling, vittuing etc.
    And in fact I don’t give a damn if the natives with a small brain like El Capone’s case understand me or not. To such real Finns I can speak even siansaksa – most of the time they don’t understand any speech anyway.

  • El Capone

    Ha ha… look at those synapses go again… Please tell me I’m a racist socialist pro-cartel Siwa shopper who’s never enjoyed a.. what was it again… “a nice Chateaubriand with an exotic salad”. Pretty pleeeease.

    Speaking siansaksa to Vikings? Sataning, perkelling, vittuing etc? Kinky… I love it.

  • Anonymous

    I suppose my points with the video links was that some people are naturally good in languages and some will never learn, it doesn’t depend on where you come from or what you’ve been doing for a living.

    But seriously, you can’t expect working people in a haste to start teaching you Finnish. It’s much better way to learn anyway if you have conversations with friends in situations where you all can take your time, like go to have a bite or a coffee, few pints or a hockey game.

  • Me

    Probably, because he knew that you were going to refer to him as a “bar tender” as opposed to a “bartender”?

  • Anonymous

    “I still cannot differentiate my own speech with words like “kukka” and “kuka.”

    My advice for that, maybe a bad one but here it goes, buy the Aapinen and Lukukirja books =)

    http://www.otava.fi/oppimateriaalit/oppimateriaali_sarjat/hauskamatka/fi_FI/aapinen_ja_lukukirja/

    You need to start learning the syllables and you need to start learning them now. Halt everything else. That book is meant for kids in school who are just about to learn how to read and write. So logically it should be good for a foreigner just learning the language = basically doing the same what kids are doing in school. Learning the syllables makes speaking the language so much easier.

    Because in Finnish every letter of a syllable is pronounced -> KAU-PUN-KI you need to pronounce the letters U, N and I clearly and not just skip them (what most foreigners always do) so in a word KUK-KA you pronounce KUK paying attention that you prounounce the K in the end, take a pause and then KA. KU-KA you don’t pronounce that K because there isn’t one. Very simple isn’t it.

  • Heidi

    As a Finn myself, I think not all the people dislike it when foreigners at least try to speak Finnish. I have a Hungarian friend who studies Finnish and works here as an au pair, and I like talking in Finnish with her. Though when I use some difficult vocabulary I often translate it into English. But mostly I’m just amazed how some people really spend their energy by studying Finnish, even if someone’s never been to Finland or hasn’t met a Finn ever. And I respect those people alot. Keep up studying (:

  • Anonymous

    “But mostly I’m just amazed how some people really spend their energy by studying Finnish, even if someone’s never been to Finland or hasn’t met a Finn ever.”

    They do it because the Finnish language sounds beautiful and exotic and “sexy” to most foreigners. I know some come to Finland only because of the language. That’s about the only good thing there is in Finland. Nature, peace and sexy language. Boring people though.

  • Anonymous

    “Boring people though.”

    Like you

  • Cunter

    Note to self: Not all frenchmen are twats, though most are.

  • Mussuka

    Anonymous is suffering from a split personality syndrome again:)))

    Sexy language – now that’s something I have not yet heard from anyone. I can call Spanish or Italian sexy but Finnish? The arguments these people come up with…:)

  • wahur

    I am not a Finnish speaker, but Estonian. So situation with non-native speakers is somewhat similar. And problem is the same for both sides. You see, there are foreigners and local Russians who a) speak Estonian and do so gladly or even prefer that for one reason or another, b) speak Estonian, but do not want to speak that nevertheless, c) do not speak Estonian but still try desperately, d) do not speak Estonian and never intend to. Whichever way you try, chance of choosing the language goes wrong about 50% of the time (I am fluent in ET, EN and RU so the choice is not a problem for me). And the best solution then is to tell your preference and be done with it. Why feel bad? It’s just life.

  • Anonymous

    “Like you”

    Yes. Like me.

  • Anonymous

    “Sexy language – now that’s something I have not yet heard from anyone.”

    Maybe the fact that you don’t have friends, has something to do with it.

  • Niilo

    Funny story. I once had some kind of reverse situation; a British barman refused to believe that I wasn’t a Finn, telling me “your accent is great, but you will never sound like a native speaker” (!) (I am also a Brit(

    I have seen a kind of Murphy’s Law of Conversation in operation in Helsinki; The easier the situation the more likely that the Finn you are dealing with will switch to English.

    e.g. in bars, shops and situations where you can handle yourself with no problems, the ‘helpful’ bartender/shop assistant/whatever will switch immediately to English. But if you go to Kela, Verotoimisto or the unemployment office, when you would be delighted to have someone help you navigate the byzantine bureaucracy englanniksi, then you usually have to muddle through as best as you can suomeksi.

  • vastustuskyky

    ah, I just loved mentioning I speak Japanese to these Japanese guys who always tried to speak me English when I lived in Japan. It can be lots more difficult for an outsider (in Japan any western-looking guy is totally outsider just by one look)if conversation can’t be turned into English if wanted. Japanese’s English skills kinda suck in too many cases.

    I’m a Finn and speak kinda fluent Japanese, but that’s some culture you really can’t get in, even if you know the language, if you are not native. I think I understand your thoughs of Finns as boring, (maybe)smart, racistic, but in some way interesting people. Sometimes I’m so annoyed with Japanese and their not-gonna-let-you-in-you-look-strange-culture, but I just can’t let them be :-)

  • http://Finlandforthought PinT

    HAH: loved this post/thread:my Finnish wife, (but yep, joint marriage language = English) put me on to this:
    Reiska and Mike’s comments are spot on for me – so much so, that roles are revered with my Finn relatives’ life here; I’ve become the silent foreigner coz they’re all terrified to talk to me for fear of embarrassment that they won’t be able to fathom what I’m saying and so steer well clear of saying ANYTHING to me!
    And yep, I too constantly get the same service personnel switch to English whenever I try my mangled Finnish: who am I to insist on continuing in ‘wrong’ Finnish if they can’t cope with anything less than perfection?
    My best (worst?!) pub experience which resulted in me ‘withdrawing my custom’* came after the typically surly lass began to lecture me like a stupid kid – (in front of my client, too!) – on how to order correctly in Finnish – and not to expect a receipt (she’d chucked it in the garbage!) if I didn’t speak properly!
    *Still, has saved me one helluva lot of dosh since not returning!

  • seedy

    i really love finland how peopel speak finnis and how the behave in her oh finland and they pay school for free at school eat is free and water is for free and thanks for helping me to speak finnid and líve in finland I LOVE FINLAND

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