True, true. Try also Estonian shops, like Eesti Wärk in Kamppi or Eestin Herkut in Kallio. They have great candy, sausages etc with reasonable prices. My absolute favorite is Kārums, a Latvian curd candy, which is so so good.

K-Market and S-Market have a total monopoly on the supermarket business in Finland, so they can afford to sell their groceries at ridiculously high prices without any repercussions.

These 2 supermarket chains make great profit on the poor Finnish people! What is needed is more competition in the supermaket industry; that will inadvertendly cause a decrease in basic food items, as well as provide more variety to consumers. Basically every supermarket in Finland sells the same products, from the same suppliers. That is really frustrating to me, who am used to lots of variety in supermarkets.

But Finns will never allow cheaper, foreign supermarkets to do business here. THEY ARE TOO NATIONALISTIC, WHICH IN TURN MAKES THEM EXTREMELY XENOPHOBIC!!!

The only thing worse than an uneducated , brainwashed person, is an educated ,brainwashed person!! See, they both firmly beleive in the propaganda they have been fed, but the educated brainwashed person beleives that he can actually justify , and defend that propaganda.

FINNS FALL INTO THE LATTER GROUP!

I am tired of Finns always trying to justify the exorbitant prices that they pay for basic commodities here. Their favourite line of argument always is ” but our salaries are higher than in the other countries. Our salaries are higher than in the US, so our goods have to be more expensive too!” BULLSHIT!!

I always tell them to forget about whose salary is higher. What we have to look at, is the percentage of one’s salary used for the purchase of basic commodities. Example, A Finn works for 3000€ a month, and an American works for 2000$ a month.If the Finn spends 1400€ a month on his basic needs, and the American spends 800, guess who spends a greater percentage of their salary on acquiring their basic needs; the Finn. Case closed!!

True, true and true…

Just dont bring wal mart here…

Uncle Sam, this place is screaming for a walmart (not that I personally long for such a monstrosity)… But something has to be done about the supermarket cartel, because now we know that’s exactly what it is.

Lidl prices have definitely not been going down either, let’s all note. If any of these stores think that they can charge a lot, they will.

I must say that while the Supermarket versions of the KKKK stores are among the most expensive in the nation, they do carry a growing assortment of international goods (all of which can be bought in the aforementioned foreign markets for much less). It seems that Kesko wants to be a long term player in developing markets rather than just merely sitting back and enjoy the awful price gouging going on.

CMQ, I so completelly agree. Furthemore, finnish salaries are not even higher than american salaries. But what you report is not only a problem in Finland i’m afraid. It tends to be kinda the same in most european countries.

Recently people in the French carribean island of guadeloupe even started a general strike against it. And I totally understand and support them. To bring figures, they pay for gasoline about 1,70euro per litter, and pasta 2euro… So it is pretty much a shame. I think if the grocery stores are really pushing people to the limits they will revolt as it happens in guadeloupe now.

It would take an act of alcohol prohibition before you got any Finns to revolt anything.

The supermarkets are really bad here. Yes that’s true. What pisses me off more than anything is that they don’t care to source local produce. The large supermarkets have such a monopoly that they could quite easily promote local produce and local farming.
Apart from their apathy they also have really bad selections. Go to any other European country and find a huge range of interesting products.
My cynical mind says that they are raising prices in advance of the reduction in ALV.
Anyhow the complaints made about them do not just come from foreigners. Many many Finns are fed up with them too.

Us Finns will never give up our myths. As children we were taught domestic food is clean and foreign food is dirty. Or as my grandfather used to say: “shit smells like the finest foreign apples”.

We could use more Asian food shops here in Tampere area. I have found only one that we visit regularly. Local Lidl is still cheaper than K- and S-chains and I don’t see many Finns shopping there.

Salainen – that’s absolutly right. And nice that a Finn admits to fact that you get brainwashing at an early stage and on a nationwide scale. Have you ever asked a simple question: WHY do you say our food is better or cleaner than foreign one?
Have you ever tasted a tomato grown in a foil tunnel in Finland and one that grew under the bright sun in Turkey? Which one tastes like a juicy tomato and which is a green, bitter and mostly tastless stone? Same goeas for most fruit and vegetables. As for meat – do Finnish cows and pigs that spend most of their lives inside some navetta produce better meat or milk than those whi8ch can freely eat the green grass?
And to have the guts to say then : we are the most educated among nations while same time beliving such shit as your grundfather used to say – that’s interesting. I always belived that only stupid and uneducated people are prone to manipulation and propaganda. But no, Finland proves otherwise.

Yeah I’m not thrilled about shopping at “nazi siwa” (lidl) — I’d rather patronise the local brands — but there’s a limit to how much I wanna get shafted.

I’d rather patronise the local brands

Why exactly?

@12: Think globally, act (and shop) locally.

It’s bad enough that Finland is already overrun with furrin’ brands like Colgate and Nestlé. If you want to drive the local economy into the ground, a good way to do it is to regard local brands as hopelessly uncool or whatever and to buy as much as you can by mail from anywhere else in the EU.

Of course this begs the questions. Which is worse, trucking a tomato from Spain (and making it tough and tasteless enough to survive the road trip) or growing it locally in heated facilities ? Which is worse, ordering your guitar amp from thomann.de or paying 50% more at Musaamaailma ?

I’m sure in the 80s, or previously, Finnish meat and produce certainly tasted better than imports, on a seasonal level. Back then, restaurants and stores had better access to domestic production, and businesses had no pressure to show stock investors any growth. Just make money.
Like many places, in various businesses, any sign of profit was a good thing at the time, regardless of the numbers in comparison to the financial quarter of the previous year.
That was then, before internationalization changed the landscape.
At Vii Voan in Hakeniemi, not only do they bag your groceries for you, the prices are cheap enough to buy anything on a whim. Like a basket sample from the full wall of various chili sauces.

As a born and bred Helsinkian, I never got much of the “clean Finnish food” propaganda that is apparently common in Kepuland. CMQ and others seem to have trouble distinguishing between the people and official Finland. The former have made an art form out of buying the cheapest stuff they can find, completely disregarding quality – just look at the success of Tokmanni-Kakkonen – whereas the latter are fighting tooth and nail to shelter the former from the corrupting effects of retail competition.

Another vote for Vii Voan. But does anyone know where the heck I can find masa harina ?

#13: Buying it from thomann.de is of course the way to go

@13 – how about “use your common sense and sense of taste”?
In a nutshell – no propaganda will change me into an idiot partiot supporting local products if they are less tasty and more expensive. Look at the Finns buying thier precious local apples – size of peanuts, full of worms at the attractive price of 4€. Next to them are beautiful red sweet huge apples from somewhere for 1,99€. But they are poisoned because grew abroad.
Get real. And get bloody competitive. Meaning – improve your quality and lower the prices.

Masa harina de maíz, preparado para tortillas, pupusas, y tamales; or, did you refer to a different masa?
I brought my own masa from L.A. (no, not Lower Alabama, the other one) last Xmas, along with every dry chili pod I could find.

My cynical mind says that they are raising prices in advance of the reduction in ALV.- Campbell

The same reduction in ALV may result in the opening of more niche food markets. Don’t believe price fixing can go on for long.

Hey, maybe a positive twist to globalization will happen, after all.

@19: The masa harina that you need for fresh tortillas … I checked all the shops in that strip on Hämeentie, but no luck

@Tussuka
Do you have a yeast infection

I have a suggestion, what about creating a facebook group to gather support, information e.g. links, articles… regarding the lack of competition in the finnish food market.

We could start with the following article and the one Phil started on

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Market+share+of+S+Group+grocery+stores+nears+40+per+cent/1135225973779

What do you think?

“#13: Think globally, act (and shop) locally.”

Think first about your own pocket, then after can think about local economy.

“clean Finnish food” “Parhaat säilönta aineet”.
I am seing now a Chiropractor after a nerve in my back muscle got damaged due to some inflammation inside the thick intestine, thanks to Finnish food and its “Parhaat säilönta aineet”.

Think globally, act (and shop) locally.

Which is more “local”: A tomato from Tallinn. Or a tomato from Utsjoki. let me guess, Utsjoki, right? :-/

Anonymous- you might be right: in my country they say to a fast growing child that he must have got some yeast:)So, perphaps you should try it too – to get over the average sitting dog size level.

Groceries in Finland are definitely way beyond expensive, and as a result I think that people here have a very restrictive diet, and are unable to experiment with different types of food.

Pesto, which has been around for the average man’s consumption even in developping countries, is something of a novelty here.Had a few people here ask me with pride if I knew what pesto was; I almost blew the roof on these backward folks!!

Meat consumption here, although it has increased in recent years, is still relatively low. Meat is so expensive here, that everything is made into a soup, to “stretch” the meat. Hence you have fish soup, and beef soup, where small bits of meat are used.There isn’t much variety in meat here either. Lots of pork and some beef, but hardly anything else. Lamb , cornish hens, turkey,fish other than salmon and saithe, are all rare here.

Here in Finland, I have also seen lots of behaviour by consumers which is more inkeeping with the Third World, than a “rich” developped country:

At the supermarkets, people can’t afford to do any random, bulk buying. People buy small quantities of groceries here, and they spend a long time scrutinizing the price and product before buying it.

Here in Finland also, people angrily glare at your groceries in your basket. This I think is psychotic behavior.

They also make a bee-line for anything marked with that little Finnish flag, even if the alternative product next to it is 3 times cheaper, and of superior quality!!

I could go on and on, but I guess will just end here.

Wow, are we all saying here that the “masses” are “so brainwashed” ? That we have all found ourselves living in a bad remake of “Invasion of the Food Budget Snatchers” ? Then I am truly blessed to be on this blog among the thinking elite : ) As I smart shopper I will demand at once that all Finnish farmers throw in the towel and bow to the inevitable

CMQ – nothing to add:) Exactly my and many of my colleagues observations. Pity Finns don’t see these things themselves and try to change them.
You know, many times I have thought about some business possibilies and that I could import eg. meat products or veggies from my country, where 1. it’s much cheaper, 2. it’s much tastier and 3. there is a wide variety of them. But I am sure the sales would never pick up for the simple reason – it would not have that Finnish flag on it.
Anyway, I boycott the Finnish products wherever it’s possible. Meat – no chance (se on puhdas suomalainen liha:)but with other food products almost always – I choose cheaper and better = imported.

After an extended stint not reading the comments here at FFT it is nice to find again that there is at least something in the world that never changes. The same arguments, the same anecdotal evidence, the same blanket generalizations abound. I agree with v.i.lenin above: in our country of mindless zombies, it is great to yet again discover a thinking elite at FFT.

Lets do a breakdown. I agree food is in both the comparative and absolute terms very expensive in Finland. But how do we fix this? The answers so far in these comments:

1) more competition, especially by foreign grocery chains
2) breakup of the S- and K-chain duopoly

Lets see. We have a problem with competition, to be sure. Two big chains dominate the marketplace. Would could we do about it?

There are very few foreign food retail companies operating in in Finland. Why? This is a small market away from Central Europe. No land connections to the Western European centres. Bordered by the infamously volatile and untrustworthy Russian market. Huge majority of all trade brought in by ship across a narrow sea area frozen for a major part of the year. This small marketplace of a bit over 5 million consumers is dominated by few local, strongly entrenched players. Due to location and logistics, any foreign company will most likely have to set up a local branch with all necessary supporting functions rather than running the operation from a central regional branch like you can do in, say, Eastern Europe.

Now, by the European Union regulations in place, the Finnish government would have a snowball’s chance in Hell to stop big foreign crocery chains like Carrefour, Tesco or Wal-Mart to set up shop in Finland. But those chains just elect not to come in here for the reasons listed above: the expected profit just does not make this move enticing enough. The Finnish tax policy for companies is, comparatively, not that bad, the problems we have is with private taxation.

“But what about Lidl?”, you might say. During the last decade or so, Lidl used to have a non-mainstream policy of expanding into as many market areas as they could, on the full expectation of making a loss for an extended period before they are entrenched. They came to Finland just because very few foreign companies considered the move. Some of you must have noticed that the prices at Lidl Finland have gone up recently: this is because, after selling at a loss for several years, the company finally considers its position on the market strong enough to try and make a profit. This is no conjencture: it has been reported in business news and I know people at the company who have toold me as much.

To get more competition in the Finnish marketplace would require a) the forced dismantling of the S- and K-chains by the government, b) that foreign chains are ready to accept a lower return to their capital in Finland than in most of Europe, and quite possibly c) that the Finnish government starts to offer subsidies in terms of tax breaks, subsidized loans or direct cash infusions to foreign companies to entice them to enter the marketplace. All of these requirements have serious problems in both theory and execution. For one, they would require heavy government intervention in the market, something people already decry on FFT on daily basis. Second, they would require both international companies and a national govenrment to possibly act against their interest in a time of global economic downturn.

Thus, for obvious reasons, the situation in the Finnish market is not about to change in a short order. The marketplace, for pure reasons of realpolitik and the financial logic of location, scale and expected profit is made for duopolies or monopolies, either by local or in the case of an extreme liberalization, foreign chains. It is no wonder that we have a burger chain duopoly, too, and McDonalds making a loss more often than not. It has quite little to do with actual protectionism at this point.

After reading Drakon’s post, I feel like living back in USSR.

One small question: why you don’t see in Finland, like in most other countries small local shops (bakeries, groceries, butchers, veggies etc)taht are kind of competitors on a small scale to those huge malls? Huge taxes is one reason but also shopping culture is some factor. Whereas people abroad still have a choice: either buy your stuff from a stall in a bazar or go to Mrs Smith’s local grocery or drive to a mall for a weekly shopping, most Finns have a choice of Prisma or K-market. With some small addition of Siwa or Valintatalo. That supply anyway the same stuff.

So, who killed the small suppliers here: government or end consumers?

Mussuka,

the Market ™ does not exactly love small economies located in the periphery. To grow financially, they tend to either turn to state capitalism (like Finland of the Kekkonen era) or dive head-first into full liberalization, like Iceland in the nineties. What the Kekkonen era wrough can be seen here today; the results of the Icelandic model we have seen in the news during the last months. Finland has been, in the late few decades of the growth of the National Coalition, following slowly on the Icelandic footsteps but I guess the economic crisis will see us return to “the good old times” of home market protection.

The demise of the small suppliers is not an either/or thing. All players are to blame, government policies favouring big business, the companies using economies of scale, people going for the cheapest option. I guess it would be a false view to see “the government” in the American way as something monolithical standing apart from the civil society. It is a combination of interests that created the Finnish economic climate and reality.

And speaking of the comment quality …
This was posted to Hacker News today …

http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html

Bad comments seem to be a harder problem than bad submissions. While the quality of links on the front page of HN hasn’t changed much, the quality of the median comment may have decreased somewhat.

There are two main kinds of badness in comments: meanness and stupidity. There is a lot of overlap between the two—mean comments are disproportionately likely also to be dumb—but the strategies for dealing with them are different. Meanness is easier to control. You can have rules saying one shouldn’t be mean, and if you enforce them it seems possible to keep a lid on meanness.

Keeping a lid on stupidity is harder, perhaps because stupidity is not so easily distinguishable. Mean people are more likely to know they’re being mean than stupid people are to know they’re being stupid.

Drakon,

Thank you for the first intelligent commentary I’ve seen on this blog in a long time. You almost made it worth it to come back.

Don’t you people travel? Don’t you see how cheap food is in other parts of Europe? Even in Sweden, food is cheaper, more abundant, and more varied than it is here.

S-Market and K-Market do make huge profits. Truth is that they CAN sell their food a lot chEAper , and still make a huge profit. They just choose not to!!

And instead of you Finns demanding cheaper prices, even if it means boycotting those establishments, you are instead busy waging war on harmless immigrants who have done nothing bad to you. COWARD REDNECKS!!!

Why not direct that hatred you harbour towards us immigrants towards those 2 supermarket chains which are bleeding you dry??

Finally, do not give me that nonesense about the Finnish market being so small. Is Finland the smallest country in the world? Just think before you defend everything, you brainwashed people!

I have a feeling that this current recession will inspire foreign grocery store chains to come in to Finland. Reasons? 1 – We will soon have a lot of empty logistics space since a lot was built during this last boom and a lot of it will go empty in the very near future. Rich foreign grocery store chains will be able to buy prime logistics facilities at cheap prices.

2 – as stated above, as food prices are going down in other countries, here they are going up. It would be relatively easy for something like Tesco to load ships in UK and unload them in Helsinki area for twice the price. It just makes sense. They would not even need that many stores here. Just a couple big ones in southern Finland would do fine. If they sold basic groceries cheaper than Finnish stores they would be full to the hilt 100 percent guaranteed.

Proof? If you sell cheap, like veljekset keskinen at their tuuri
(www.tuuri.fi/) “village shop”, Finns will make pilgrimages to your store even from longer distances.

It is indeed sad that in finland the only foreign alternative to local food is a discount food provider – Lidl. I don’t really expect food quality to come from that kind of chains. In fact in here, i only buy my beers at Lidl (0,38 cents for a 5% 50cl german beer) and french wine at 1,5 euro per bottle… And these are of satisfying quality we’ll say.

F*ck i shouldnt have told about alcool price, now all Finns are going to invade France (

Let’s hope so, because k and s seem to sell the same standardized stuff, the same 4-5 crappy third class tasteless expensive kind of food.
Maybe it’s good for them if for example only the local “kurkut” cucumbers are available (4-5 € per kilo) and that’s protectionism, otherwize it would be depressing to have everything surpassed by foreign products. They can’t admit it and don’t want it, so censorship and brainwashing go on.
For the foreigners it can’t be convenient to open some “international” food shop or café, (wine shops are ussr taboo!) because here they wouldn’t understand the tastes.
They don’t know what french or italian food are and get easily fooled by those pizza-kebabs stuffs which are totally aother thing.
After ten years they’ll be still super closed minded and out of the world.

38. Well here i have to say things honnestly. you’re talking about french and italian food, but the best grocery store line i ever shopped at was Delhaize when i lived in Belgium. I won’t lie to you, it is an expensive grocery store, but the quality of the food they sell is quite amazing. In terms of prices i think it can compare with S-markets and K-markets from finland though.

I have a few stories to tell about the food quality at delhaize. I was buying some prepared sushi from there, and when i went to a true japaneese restaurant afterwards, it turned out the sushies were not much better, yet a lot more expensive there.

The second story i have to tell is about Roquefort, you know, that smelly french blue cheese that lame americans are taxing now at 300% for imports. I found some Roquefort cheese from the brand Papillon in delhaize, which you canot even find in France… You can only find it if you go to the region where it is produced at as it normally only spreads to the local market there (i.e. 50 kms away). It is a brand which is of the best for that cheese. You can imagine how amazed i was to find this out in Belgium.

So yep, I think one should go to that brand of grocery stores and make their own opinion before they talk about quality

Idiot wrote:
“for example only the local “kurkut” cucumbers are available (4-5 € per kilo) and that’s protectionism”

No it isn’t, I don’t know what kind of shops you visit but here we have those nice tastless Spanish cucumbers among others [insert product here] which cost less than the tastless Finnish cucumbers. The only way this could be called protectionism would be that the spanish cucumbers would be taxed by trade tariffs so that their price would have to be more expensive than that of the local produce.
Sheesh, you people could really use a dictionary and a couple of brain cells.

And CMQ and Mussukka. Do you guys ever read the things you spew out. Man I have never read so many hateful and racist commenst since the days of hfb and finnpundit. Take a good look in the mirror and see the ugly face of racism starring back at you and maybe just maybe the locals don’t hate you because you’re a “furriner” maybe it’s because you’re annoying assholes whome didn’t have many friends to start with back home in the lands of honey and milk.

And yes the food prices here are way too high and I would love to see more variety and cheaper products (And so would the majority of the locals) but Drakon but it well, we ain’t going too any major change for awhile without some drastic measures taken by the government or the miracle of a big bussiness chain coming here.

Wow.

I don’t remember what I was looking for when I accidentally happened to find this page. I’ll put down a few comments, in the hopes that previous posters’ superior level of intelligence is adequate to understand my ramblings – pardon me for this is not my native tongue: I’m a thirty-something Finn, and these things I list here apply to most of my peers and the younger generations:

YES, there is a myth alive and well that Finnish food is more “pure”. NO, all of us do not swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Some are even capable of critical thinking – you know, the basic principle of Academia.

- I’m not exactly happy about the high prices here. It’s not like “all us Finns” have decided to keep the prices up. So far I have been too busy with other things in my life (like studies, work, relationships, loss of my parents, etc.) to come up with a plan for how the ordinary people could bring the prices down.

- I would welcome more foreign chains here with open arms if it in my power to decide those things.

- I do buy food from Asian etc. shops, and it has never crossed my mind to think of the people there as “Asian fucks”(!!!), as Phil so colorfully put it.

- Not all Finnish cattle & pigs live their lives in the “navetta”. Some small farms sell meat from more ecologically bred animals, and they deliver it to some larger stores as well. Want a hint? Look for the word “luomu”. (Yes, I know, it’s ridiculously expensive. What isn’t?)

- I love traveling and have been abroad (several times in many countries, can you believe that?!) and enjoyed some of their culinary delicacies. I have looked up recipes for some of them and made them here when I’ve come back from my travels, because miraculously I was able to find the ingredients! There are some “ethnic” shops too, if you know where to look.

…No, they don’t have *everything*. It’s a shitty country, isn’t it? I’m positively sure that if I went to a store in, say, village in northern Italy, or London, or Los Angeles, I would easily find Finnish cloudberries and Karelian pasties and Kalakukko there. After all, it’s only Finland that doesn’t sell every possible dish & ingredient from *all over the world*, right? Regular stores in more civilized countries sell our staples & specialities, of course, so it’s only natural that in return we have to have all delicacies available, from South Africa to China and Corsica to USA.

Now that I think back to grocery stores I visited in Prague or Stuttgart, I don’t remember the selection being that much larger than in a Finnish store of the same size. Of course it was *different* due to national tastes, traditions & producers, but not that huge… Oh now I get it, I must have been in the wrong stores. Just my bad luck.

- I have eaten locally grown peaches in Greece, watermelons in Turkey, apricots in Cyprus etc. Are they much much better than any fruit that get shipped here? Yes! Can I do something about it? You tell me. I would appreciate it.

- I don’t buy apples etc. according to their origin. I buy them by the way they look & smell. Finnish, Hungarian, Polish, what have you. (Not too much, I know, this is Finland after all.) But I wonder where Mussuka has managed to find Finnish apples “full of worms”. In all my life I don’t remember ever seeing one apple worm – not even in the apples that used to grow in my grandfather’s orchard (no pesticides).

- “F*ck i shouldnt have told about alcool price, now all Finns are going to invade France (” No worries. Not all Finns are alcoholics. I don’t drink alcohol excessively. Sometimes I enjoy a glass of red with my dinner, or a beer. None of my (Finnish) friends are alcoholics either.

But I guess you know that better that me. I’m brainwashed like we Finns are, let’s not forget that. I guess I drink more than I’m aware of, since ALL Finns do that.

- And neither is all meat put into soups, like CMQ claims. One of my favorite dishes is tournedos. I’m not rich. Also, about not finding any fish other than salmon – has anyone noticed that the infamous K-stores often sell nice dorada nowadays?

- “people angrily glare at your groceries in your basket” – what kind of nutcases do you shop with, CMQ??

- I have eaten dishes with various types of pesto (and hummus, harissa, tapenade, etc.) for – I don’t remember how long. In restaurants and in my own cooking.

- I’m actually aware that salaries here are not that good and that living is expensive. I’m also aware that the climate is not so great, apartments are generally very small, people are glum, nature is far from lush, and there are not many grandiose monuments… What else about Finland can you come up with that could be collectively trashed here? I’m sure there is no shortage of ideas.

Come to think of it, what is it that keeps you all in this backward, pitiable excuse of a country where stupid locals insult your superior intelligence and highly developed sensibilities? What is it that prevents you from escaping back to civilization?

…Does it not bother you at all that you make irrational generalizations? All Finns this, all Finns that – is there any possibility that those “all Finns” may be pensioners, unemployed or other underprivileged people who have not had the opportunity for travel that all of you have, nor enough money for the overpriced food so they have to compare prices? How many of you, *personally*, have been involved in making an economic change that you demand from ordinary people here – or are you just issuing your high and mighty “suggestions” from a position where you have never had to make any improvements in your native countries since everything has always been perfect there?

Do you even realize that some of you judge an entire nation as “ignorant, xenophobic, racist, psychotic, apathetic, stupid, backward, coward rednecks”…? You must have been extremely unfortunate because apparently you have met only those few who think that lychee is the most exotic thing there is in the universe and that 100 € per kilo is a reasonable price to pay for it.

It’s sad to see such lack of self awareness or even basic manners as you display. I have never visited a Finnish discussion board with language & attitude like yours. And you say that Finns have “hatred towards immigrants” – don’t you even realize how racist, hateful and bitter you yourselves sound?

It does not speak very highly of your own level of civilization or education.

…In regards to cuisine there is a salvation for me, however, since I’m not as “nationalistic” as the Finns you have met: I may someday move abroad. That wonderful, perfect, paradise-like country that I’m sure to find will then offer me endless variety with lower prices than I could even imagine. And in addition it will even have MY special treats from MY country, because they all do! Oh, the joy! I can hardly wait!

I just hope I don’t meet your relatives there, in case they have the same arrogant superior airs that you seem to have. I’d rather meet open minded, friendly people like my colleagues at work (originally from Finland, Ireland, Sweden, Germany, USA and India). If they read this thread I’m sure they would be ashamed on your behalf.

But then, what do I know?

When the topic is “food”, Finns get mad. this is not the first time.

Ok, there were quite rough comments above ,but that’s the truth anyway.

#40 Much more idiot than me wrote: trash.
Often only the local cucumbers and no spanish ones are findable, you wank. Swallow.

Truly a minority of persons could travel, most having money and some others the strong wish to do so, so they get to know some differences.
The others remain in the village thinking that’s the only world without any discussion so let’s rather swallow quickly some alcohol.

ps: lakka or hilla hillo, made of those arctic orange berries, has become my favourite marmelade.
I prefer it to rose marmelade, chestnut, figs, etc, so far.

#44, you really think that everyday food is some mysterious taboo – that it’s the topic itself that makes Finns angry, not the way the opinions are expressed here (read: seeing all Finns as a homogenous group and then hurling insults at them)?

Yeah, that must be it.

But please don’t try to make anyone believe that your opinions are “the truth”.

#46, it would be interesting to know why people of little means who live in little villages of other countries – why do you think they have a better knowledge of the outside world than rural “villagers” here?

And by the way, lakka = cloudberry.

Nothing will be done about the S + K -Market duopoly unless the government step in. Food prices will continue to be high. Finland has a small population. People have quite conservative tastes – especially compared to the Swedes. In general Finn’s are not that interested in other cultures or think that they know enough and this effects their interest in food. We are not talking about the well-travelled denizens of inner Keha III here by the way. It’s also a myth that transport costs are so much higher to Finland. Fun times in Finland mostly center around booze and music – not food and wine. The food culture here is partly to blame and obviously national pride works against active criticism of the current system.
Anyhow the truth is that if you look for it then good food can be gotten hold of. You need to shop in Hakaniemi and Stockmann to get a reasonable selection of produce. Also I’ve noticed that there is a lot of waste at K and S-Markets – the fresh herbs and salads they sell are so often just thrown away. Obviously they are losing money on these lines – so they have to make up that money elsewhere.
I basically agree that nothing much will be done. BUT if I could make a proposal it would be that government price-checking should take place to see if certain food lines are being willfully made more expensive or on the other side sold as discounted loss-leaders.
The government should ban the sale of loss-leading items because selling at such discounts adversely effects smaller trading companies (i.e coffee). Also it should make sure that other items don’t get over-priced and that there should be a band of percentage price increases – lets say 5% – within which an item’s price can be raised within a year. I would also give tax breaks and incentives to supermarkets who source locally and also to producers who supply their local supermarkets. So if a supermarket bought locally they would receive a tax benefit as well as the supplier.
These are just a few ideas that I think would help.
I have to say that the up-coming ALV decrease should now be scrapped because it seems to me that K And S-Markets have abused this decrease in taxation.

The Finns are not afraid of experimentation with exotic foods.

Just yesterday the new (Sokos) “Yhteishyvä” magazine arrived!

On the back of the monthly recipe booklet there is a fascinating article about the exotic “tasty ketchup.”

The saucy subhead reads…

“Makean suolainen tomaattiketsuppi on koko perheen pöytämauste, joka sopii hyvin myös ruoanvalmistukseen.”

“The sweet and sour tomato ketchup is the family-condiment which also suits well as an ingredient in food making.”

How can any of you say that Finland isn’t trying new things???!!!

Who is the importer ministry?
They either can’t import good fruits at all or keep ‘em for themselves.
Do they get cheated abroad when buying and loading the trucks or what?
Engage me there as importer ministry (lol) and they won’t cheat you anymore. Wake up!
Everywhere there’s those few standardized products of 2nd 3rd class quality, even in a kkk marked of 8000 square metres there is quite little too.
The fruits are a disaster: the oranges and mandarins this year are either very rotten or so hard and more dried than the dried ones. If you don’t pick up from those 2,3 boxes, then there are 4 boxes of jaffa, israel, almost a monopoly!
I don’t feel now buying jaffa after those gaza massacres, I wouldn’t buy from those places either.
The apples are always the same, thru’ the years! Are they stored in a big fridge and kept there for years?
I don’t say to find the “renette”, but some change, please! Don’t be so boring. Those chinese fuji …? costed 2€ now they cost 1€ but they’re not worth half.
Chiquita is everywhere and sadly the eco-bananas not always taste better. The avocados are as big as nuts and rotten.
The chestnut appeared, but they are broken.
etc etc etc
What a cheat.

It’s not just like criticizing the weather, there are plenty of ways for improving.

x – in order to improve something, you need first to admit that this something is not good enough and needs improving. Instead of that Finns usually get mad to hear any critical voices (look up Cunt Cuntington’s riots among some earlier posts) because in thier opinion – everything IS perfect. So, just ignore them, let them eat their overpriced makaronilaatiko and some mish mash crap dishes made for toothless people and you – whenever you manage to be abroad enjoy the taste of Chateaubrian with some exotic fresh salad, followed by a spongy tiramisu and rinse it all with the good year Merlot. And smile thinking of the Finns peeling their potatoes – the only vegetable that grows here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7915040.stm

Thank you, Mussuka. I hope you’ll enjoy somethings too.
Yes, smiling helps, even if smiling for their thinking to be perfect, their lack of analysis and their rotten potatoes is not always easy.. After all we also have to buy those bad tasted things from the market.

@50: Yeah BABY !

Epic failure wrote:
“Often only the local cucumbers and no spanish ones are findable, you wank. Swallow.”
I seriously doubt that unless you live in the back hills every where else you’ll find foreign products that are cheaper than the local products.
Besides you missed the whole point of my post. It doesn’t matter if you are retarded enough to not to find none Finnish products in shops. You made an idiotic comment about protectionism and failed and yes I wank but are you sure you want to swallow.

Ps. I doubt that you’re really a foreigner in Finland. Now how shall we arrange this fetish of yours, shall I mail my holy seed for you to swallow or do you have better idea?.

CMQ:
“Don’t you people travel?”

Um, yes. I’m posting from Tokyo. Food is about as expensive as in Finland (both in shops and restaurants) – it could be argued though that the quality, especially in terms of presentation, is infinitely superior. A kaiten-sushi place in Helsinki would kick some serious ass. Quality European wine is somewhat more expensive than in Alko as you’d expect, cheap sake is pretty cheap (but rather unpalatable to my European taste) and of course there’s the option of buying 95% ethanol from the pharmacy for the FFT elite that is always looking for the cheapest way to get smashed. Oh, and the prices of Scotch (especially the offer on Ardbeg at the Shinjuku Keio) got me considering taking back 10 bottles, the alcoholic Finn that I am.

“Don’t you see how cheap food is in other parts of Europe? Even in Sweden, food is cheaper, more abundant, and more varied than it is here.”

The selection is definitely more varied but you must have been to a different Sweden than I have if you seriously claim that it’s cheaper. What’s next, Systembolaget cheaper than Alko?

“S-Market and K-Market do make huge profits. Truth is that they CAN sell their food a lot chEAper , and still make a huge profit. They just choose not to!!”

Wow, they choose to make big profits instead of small ones? The nerve! Look up “capitalism” in your dictionary.

“And instead of you Finns demanding cheaper prices, even if it means boycotting those establishments, you are instead busy waging war on harmless immigrants who have done nothing bad to you. COWARD REDNECKS!!!”

A nationwide hunger strike would be hard to implement, methinks. Incidentally, have you taken your medication?

“Finally, do not give me that nonesense about the Finnish market being so small. Is Finland the smallest country in the world? Just think before you defend everything, you brainwashed people!”

No, but it is fairly small, far from everywhere and sparsely populated. Not exactly a recipe for awesome retail competition. I challenge you to find a similarly remote and sparsely populated industrial country with cheaper food. You’re ranting and raving about your mysterious country of origin, which I take is Jamaica, where the PPP-adjusted per capita GDP is $7,876 p.a. (IMF), whereas in Finland it is $36,844. It may be difficult for you to grasp, but this does affect food prices as well.

Andy in #49: Those are good ideas, but we liberally-minded folk at FFT are oh so wary of government intervention and thus continue to enjoy the S+K goodies distributed by the Invisible Hand.

Thanks Marjo, for pointing that out. I can agree with you. Also this: buy Luomu!

Andy Campbell: What? No tax break? C’mon! And what do you think about the upcoming year round sunday opening for all markets? It will be a big bummer for the “smaller markets”, I know, but also they belong to big chains, so why do I care…. One suggestion for those smaller shops was to have more interesting selection to cope with the competition. I completely agree, but do you believe they that Siwa is going to sell fresh berries, mushrooms, or fresh bread on Sunday??? No F-ing way, if you ask me!

What I am trying to say is that nothing will change. Ever. In seven years from now I will still be looking at endless rows of meetvursti and maustekurkku. Variety here means different colour wrapping.

Typical Finnish cop-out; accusing anyone who dares speak out, of being in need of medication.

NEWS-FLASH: unlike in Finland where the only people who dare voice any objections are the drunk or mentally deranged, in most other countries, it is normal to criticize the things which you do not like about the country!

You mentioned food being expensive in Tokyo. Why compare Finland to a country so far away? Is food more expensive in the UK, France, Holland, Germany? Have been to all of these places for extended periods of time, and I can tell you that the food is definitely cheaper there!

Silly, boycotting S and K Market for a few days would not be tantamount to staging any hunger strike. What about patronizing Lidl, the local markets, and smaller supermarkets instead. This has been done in other parts of the world, to send the message accross.

If your intelligent mind tells you that I am from Jamaica, then Jamaica it is .

And less you think that I am uninformed , I do know that Tokyo is not a country, but part of Japan

CMQ, when did you come to Finland?

57 the most failed
I ve got a better idea, eat some more scum and keep off.

pre-pubesant little troll wrote:
“I ve got a better idea, eat some more scum and keep off.”

Yes thank you for admiting that you’re a retard. Now STFU or address the point I made, oh wait you can’t because you’re a dumb cock sucker who has a strange craving for my cum.

And CMQ keep fighting the good fight. One of these days you’ll be appointed as the grand dragon of your own regional klan.

“Instead of that Finns usually get mad to hear any critical voices (look up Cunt Cuntington’s riots among some earlier posts)”

Yes my neighbour went all green, ripped of his shirt and screamed Finn mad, Finn smash when I dared to criticize the lack of good radio stations in Finland. BTW I am not a Finn but I don’t expect you to see anything past your racist views.

“because in thier opinion – everything IS perfect. So, just ignore them, let them eat their overpriced makaronilaatiko and some mish mash crap dishes made for toothless people and you – whenever you manage to be abroad enjoy the taste of Chateaubrian with some exotic fresh salad, followed by a spongy tiramisu and rinse it all with the good year Merlot. And smile thinking of the Finns peeling their potatoes – the only vegetable that grows here.”

Oh come on, cry me a river. Like all of the things you just mentioned above aren’t available to finns and like they don’t use(eat) these services and products. Where do you live? In the seventies?

Ps. Merlot is mostly crap even the expensive ones. Oh and how is your klan membership application doing, you better check with CMQ. I heard he’s a real up and comer in those circles maybe he’ll speed the processing time for you

The state in Finland is racist and protectionist because these views are shared with the electorate. Foreign companies like Tesco would find it very hard to break into the Finnish market (just like Lidl did). For example, dirty foreign companies would probably find it almost impossible to get planning permission for new supermarkets. On the other hand, for the Finnish chains I imagine that the planning requirements would be waved through.

Conclusions:

1. racism runs deep in Finland; it defines the country

2. Well done Lidl – they must have shown incredible perseverence

67: What reality are you living in, ’cause it sure ain’t this one?

Do you know who owns Ikea? Gigantti? Markantalo? Bauhaus? Lidl? Spar? All Finnish? I don’t think so.

It seems to me there are plenty of foreign chains in Finland selling lots of stuff, mainly hardware. The only area these foreign chains seem to shun is groceries. Now, why is that? Could it be, perhaps, that these chains do not see the margins viable to their economic profit? Why would that be? Could it be the logistics expenses incurred sending lots of cheap stuff over long distances? Maybe? Perhaps?

Because it sure ain’t zoning restrictions. These hardware chains sure don’t seem to have ANY trouble getting their shops set up. Or maybe you’re just like Ace Ventura, talking out of your ass?

scum scumington, (don’t misuse the name cunt with your crap) stay in your sh-t and keep off because you suck.

scum scumington
yiu started trollin.

scum scumington seems one of those crappy rotten molded vegetables in the market that is now offended and is squeaking gibberish to any foreign passer by.

But yep, one thing i find “strange” in Finland is that their local food industry relies a lot on European union subsidies, yet they sell it with Finnish flags all arround. heh.

proof:
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/EU+subsidised+foodstuffs+industry+to+the+tune+of+millions+of+Euros/1135243884534

And to be really honnest, I don’t think there is any protectionism problem with grocery food lines in Finland. It’s just that foreign companies know how to do statistics and there are already a lot (too much?) grocery stores open in Finland in respect to the population. You can see it very simply, when the newer commercial center Jumbo opened in vantaa it has only deprived some central commercial centers from their clients. There was no increase in revenues. Just customers moving arround.

Furthemore, it is not even a problem of logistics or distance. For example the French grocery store company Carrefour recently opened shops in indonesia, brazil, argentina and russia.

The grocery store market in Finland is probably entering in a phase of concentration (bigger stores will kill smaller, local ones in the years to come?). So wait and see.

But Finnish racism /xenophobia / nationalism will ensure that the Finnish K and S dupoly will survive. Finns don’t like spending any of their income on imports, or even Finnish produced goods that are sold by a foreign retailer.

This type of racist / xenophobia / economic nationalism lies beyond conventioanl economic thinking – according to economic theory consumers should be prepared to pay price premiums for inferior products just because they’re made domestically. However, in Finland this is exactly what happens – a clear case of racists punishing themselves, which is justice of sorts

Chateaubriand with an EXOTIC salad?

What a strange combination. But tastes differ, I guess.

I got enough to read analysis about logistics and trading. The point is that Finns don’t get priority to food. Make one’s stomach full of anything and that’s it. And one invites others just for a cup of coffee and not a dinner. If they care about the variety and the quality of the food, i think the shops will offer better choices: we are in the era of the globalization.

X go grow some pubes and a couple of brain cells then come back with some more wittier insults. Seriously you sound like one of those 3rd graders making one of each other.

*fun

scum scumington go grow some more sh.t (and keep off) because nothing else ever grew from yiu.
shove those finnish cucumbers up yer … and in the very very rare case you find also some of those foreign cucumbers stick them up yer … as well.

CMQ:
“You mentioned food being expensive in Tokyo. Why compare Finland to a country so far away?”

As opposed to comparing it with your elusive Caribbean paradise. Well, it’s in a different direction so it makes sense. Now what could that paradise of unfathomable wealth and prosperity (with mämmi and talkkunajauho in every supermarket!) possibly be? Haiti? Cuba? I’m beginning to think it’s underwater in the Bermuda Triangle.

“Is food more expensive in the UK, France, Holland, Germany?”

Definitely more expensive in Amsterdam. As for the UK, Tesco and Asda are cheaper, the food department of Harrods not so. My recent experience from France is exclusively from Paris, which (unsurprisingly) is mostly more expensive than Helsinki. Germany, of course, shines as a beacon of light, apparently a product of an excellent logistics network, short distances and effective competition. Deutschland über alles.

“What about patronizing Lidl, the local markets, and smaller supermarkets instead. This has been done in other parts of the world, to send the message accross.”

Guess what? I shop at Lidl whenever I can, as I have during the time it has been in the country. During that time prices have shot up about 50%. Lidl is happy to be a part of the cartel.

“And less you think that I am uninformed , I do know that Tokyo is not a country, but part of Japan”

Gratz! I must say thet the sea of buildings stretching to the horizon is indeed something else. Makes NYC seem like a little village.

Well the food is expensive here because so called Pellervo mafia, that is the center party and its traditional allies, finnish food industry and biggest producers, farmers used to be part of that network but no more.
Also illegal carterls are doing well here under the political protection and this goes with almost any kind of big business. When Lidl came to Finland and announced that it will sell cheaper products, finnish food industry leaders, leaders of the market chains and leaders of the Eteläranta Big Boys Club appeared on tv, news papers and any media they were alowed into, and said it out loud: if this FOREIGN company is selling cheaper products, it is doing so because it is not run honestly. That kind of competition is unhealthy and wrong, they said.
We have some of the lowest incomes in the EU, we are between Bulgaria and Romania in OECD statistics when it comes to healthcare services, we are one of the most violent countries in Europe and still we vote the same shit heads again and again in elections. That makes us finns, I guess.

“We have some of the lowest incomes in the EU, we are between Bulgaria and Romania in OECD statistics when it comes to healthcare services, we are one of the most violent countries in Europe and still we vote the same shit heads again and again in elections. That makes us finns, I guess.”

Well put… Also don’t forget that in the latest string of surveys published by the HS, it shows Finland with the lowest percentage of foreigners per capita at 3% of the population, yet the great majority of those surveyed say that there are already too many foreigners in this country!!!!

Finns are truly disfunctional people!

“Well put… Also don’t forget that in the latest string of surveys published by the HS, it shows Finland with the lowest percentage of foreigners per capita at 3% of the population”

With the car tax and everything, we just can’t afford to have ours burned.

Ei koske Suomea.

“With the car tax and everything, we just can’t afford to have ours burned.

Ei koske Suomea.”

I think you’re a bit stupid, you know, there is something called a car insurance. Furthemore, estimates show about 33% of burned cars in France are the result of their owners who want to let the insurance pay for a new car. You see. It’s not all bad. Some people even take advantage of it.

I am almost rolling on my back and laughing reading all the crap responses from Finns. Facts are facts and they still try to manipulate them to their own way of presenting the shitty place as heaven.
Finnish food is crap – I mean cuisine as well as whatever dares to grow here, food prices here are crap, variety is tragic, Finns will never object to any price rise (I suppose it’s called “sisu”) – they just pay more and more for whatever (cars, appartments, clothing, holidays in Lapland, food) – these are facts.
So, try to twist them and make them look better. Who do you fool you Finnish idiots?

Holy crap, why does a discussion about food bring out all the nut cases? Anyways the morning TV news hit this topic. The story included a visit to Vii Voan. They said there’s like 10 towns in Finland that have furrin’ food shops, so hopefully most Finns are at liberty to discover the wonder of cheaper, tastier, scarier duopoly-free food.

X the Finnish troll

Go and learn some better english.

frenchman:
“I think you’re a bit stupid, you know, there is something called a car insurance. ”

Which, I’m sure, few owners of rusty clunkers bother to take. My car is getting close to 4 years and its value has dropped below 50% of the purchase price. Insurance is soon getting rather pointless – you do know that mandatory traffic insurance does not cover theft and vandalism, don’t you?

“You see. It’s not all bad. Some people even take advantage of it.”

Ah, the more riots, the merrier. Too bad Finns have not understood this and will rather make overpriced hotels out of defunct prisons than tear them down.

How do Finnish people get their kicks these days? Eating great food? Going crazy at the ice hockey game? Going for a night on the town? I can’t help but feel depressed when I enter a K or S Market – same old food and ever more increasing prices. The hockey game on Saturday had the feeling of being at a funeral and security guards kept the few ‘rowdy’ guys quiet. A night out on the town cost 150 euros and was a battle.
Hmmm driving is the only thing that gives pleasure these days – that and keeping my job.
I sure wish there were innocent pleasures to be found food-wise. Everything is so expensive and nothing really satisfies. Ennui abounds.
I get the feeling that we are just small insignificant blips on a chart for the big Eteläranta guys and the politicians too. Perhaps this feeling comes on because it’s still winter or maybe I’m just getting older and less significant. But some how the food price increases have depressed me no end. It’s a feeling of not been given a break – a feeling like being squeezed by the big guys. Very unpleasant.

Maybe one way to screw with the cartels’ heads would be to eschew the skyrocketing prices on staples and buy the stuff you thought you couldn’t afford anymore, like lobster once a month or jumbo shrimp or some fancy cut of meat from a good butcher?

The solution in one word: Spam! It’s a cheap way to fit a lot of calories in a can. Heck, it kept the Soviet war effort going — about 10% of all wartime calories of the armed forces. Finland had its own version, “Celebrity [brand] Luncheon Meat”, but dunno if it’s still out there. Hormel (spammakers) are notorious union busters so I’d defnitly go for the domestic version…

#91 ???????????

@90 – when you locate a good butcher in pääkaupunkiseutu – could you please share this address with us? I must be blind because I have not seen ONE butcher shop in Finland in many years I am here. And that prefabricated stuff packed by 400g or 700g in supermarkets tastes like …you know what. Probably because of all the preservatives, flour and water added.
Give me a real fresh, tender and bloody piece of meat any time!!! Meat that is fresh only today and does not have any “last using date” a week from now. That’s not meat – that’s crap.

#93
Hakaniemen kauppahalli but I haven’t visited the place in many many years so I am not sure.
BTW you can find a lihatiski in almost every well stocked shops (bigger than your local Siwa) where the meat hasn’t been processed and it’s fresh, although you can buy the shit meat too if you want to it’s usually found in the regular compartments right alongside the bacon and wieners.

“Give me a real fresh, tender and bloody piece of meat any time!!! Meat that is fresh only today and does not have any “last using date” a week from now. That’s not meat – that’s crap.”

Are you blind or just plain dumb? Or do you perhaps live in some alternative universe?

Fat Bastard:
“Because it sure ain’t zoning restrictions. These hardware chains sure don’t seem to have ANY trouble getting their shops set up.”

Um, perhaps indeed not anymore. But it took IKEA 30 years.

Mussuka – Reini liha (spelling?) in Hakaniemi kauppahalli are good. Lots of other good small-scale sellers there too.

Can you say “cartel” boys and girls?

@98: Oh yes. And it’s a lot more than just food retailing. Let us consider the case of construction companies …

I was laughing when I entered Valintatalo the other day. There were two huge piles of tomatoes that looked identical.

One from Spain at the outrageous price of €2.65/kg and one from Finland at the unbelievable price of €6.25/kg. Guess what most people were buying ?

I then understood why most Finns have no idea of the intrinsic value of every day items.

Even better was the pile next to them of ugli fruits and rambutan. If you can guess where most of those fruits ended up you’ll know why everything else is so overpriced.

And I wish I could find ns. cheese – peanut butter crackers here, but I imagine the EU probably classifies them as toxic waste

Sirkuspelle, a cartel you say? Who coulda thunk?

I see the following alternatives:
-Stop eating
-Move out of the country
-Enforce strict cartel-busting measures or nationalise food retailing

Now that I think of it, state-owned Oy Ruoka Ab could hardly be worse than what we have now. It could merge with Alko and we’d finally have wine in our food shops.

“..understood why most Finns have no idea of the intrinsic value of every day items.”

I think it’s kind of true. Or well, Finns don’t usually look much at the food prices of the items they buy until they get a shock at the checkout. Or they buy things frivolous things, like those ‘single clove garlic’ which tastes basically the same or worst as normal garlic, and both are made in china, but its just like novelty value. Then there were those cherry mandarins(?) at kamppi, forgot how much it cost, but well over 10-20e/kg, and looking dried up like they were going bad soon. Price raised my eyebrow. Plus, what is the point of paying extra for extra fruit peel and having to spend all the time opening up ur mini mandarins. I’m not questioning people’s taste, but I’m questioning why they buy things like that, and at the same time complain about not having enough money, or about being so poor etc.

Mussuka – the butchers at Hakaniemi have very fresh meat, although a tad more expensive than ‘prepackaged’ supermarket stuff. I understand your sentiments though. By the way, here and in Sweden, the use-by date on prepackaged meat REALLY does seem to be the deadline for eating it, once it gets there, its basically turning rotten…

Dave- spam isn’t cheap here tho :S
Cheap calories, try McDonalds maybe? at least the prices are consistent.

You know, I think one of the things is the attitude here too. People here see something high priced, but they want it, they still pay for it (I dunno how, I guess salaries aren’t that bad here or they got credit cards and debt). In other countries, like for example Germany, there’s better incentive for companies to be ultra competitive too because generally, people care very much about the price. The most common word I see in catalogues there for food and shopping is Gunstig! (cheap!). If it’s too expensive, they won’t buy it. So it’s kinda like a people’s protest.

I think some people do kinda protest the cost of some of the things here too, especially specialty items at the K & S markets, you can go to some ethnic stores for those if you want. And it is kind of true that people try to avoid Lidl because it looks ‘low-end’ to them, I can understand that, it happens in other countries too. But cheap doesn’t mean low-quality, you just have to be good at picking. Not everything’s cheaper at lidl either, but generally is. So I don’t think its necessary for people to stop shopping at S or K markets, I think the prices are ok on basic food items. I think what people should do is gauge what they are spending their money on, if its 20-99e/kg think, is it worth it? Or would i rather buy caviar or something more exquisite for that money instead of something that should be intricitely cheap, but with the price jacked up cos we’re in a northen country.

Yeah food prices are expensive in Sweden too. It’s the price to pay for living in a “rich” nordic country, you come out broke after buying some groceries and cigarrettes . Just kidding.
Actually I think people spend most of their money on alcohol, so foods not the most expensive thing here.

“You know, I think one of the things is the attitude here too. People here see something high priced, but they want it, they still pay for it”

Bingo!

That’s exactly the problem, not the bloody politicians, bad logistics, harsh climat etc.
Unbelivable how much people can swallow of brainwashing: this is the best because…we say so. Or simply – because it’s made in Finland:)))What an argument for overpricing. So you have to pay double price for it – because something is made in Finland, ha ha ha.

Anyway – back to butcher – so 3 people mentioned the same place in Hakaniemi as the only one fresh meat butcher. That’s not very impressive choice for a place with over a million of people. ONE overpriced butcher. Welcome to USSR.

And Cunt – a butcher shop is something else than a lihatiski in Citymarket. For you of course it is the same. It’s like someone asks for a lingerie shop and you say – there is a choice of underwear in Prisma, just opposite the shelves with socks. When you see a real butcher then you will notice the difference. In products quality, range, prices and even service. And btw. that first part of your nick – it’s so much you:)

Wow… check out the big brains on Mussuka/Tussuka!!!

“And Cunt – a butcher shop is something else than a lihatiski in Citymarket.”

Yes I know. You were complaining about not finding fresh meat and that only processed meat is available. Learn to read idiot or do you perhaps posess the memory of a goldfish

“For you of course it is the same.”

No it’s not. Try again you racist idiot.

“It’s like someone asks for a lingerie shop and you say – there is a choice of underwear in Prisma, just opposite the shelves with socks.”

False analogy

“When you see a real butcher then you will notice the difference. In products quality, range, prices and even service.”

FYI I happen to live right next to a real old fashioned butcher the kinds you can find in Central Europe (where I am from BTW). They sell excellent meat products there from deer and moose sausage to wildboar in various forms and whole porks etc. Then there’s a place in the city which provides the meat to some of the restaurants in Porvoo where you can find really cheap filet mignon if you’re willing to buy a kilo or two.
If all else fails, you can always find fresh meat at your local supermarket maybe they don’t have porks head or some other delicacy available but I have always made by with what “little” they have there.

“And btw. that first part of your nick – it’s so much you:)”

Oh, why thank you.

Nobody coming from Central Europe uses the word “idiot” as often as Finns when they get aggravated by some others’ opinions. Or call others racist. Your arguments are SO Finnish that either 1. you are one or 2. you got brainwashed thoroughly by Finns and remind of one.

Another thing: so what is the name and address (city is enough) of that old fashioned butcher shop in Finland? When I see it I belive it – not till then.

Or that cheap place where you can get filet mignon? Cheap by the Central Europe standards, not Finnish ones.

And see – porks head is a very important part for many other cultures’ cuisine. Especially in Central Europe. As well as a person from that part would never say that supermarkets in Finland have a big enough choice of meat products – NEVER.
You just proved – you bullshit with your lies.

“Nobody coming from Central Europe uses the word “idiot” as often as Finns when they get aggravated by some others’ opinions.”

I am not aggravated about your worthless and clearly racist opinions. I am just calling a spade a spade. Is dummkopf a better word describing the likes of you?

“Or call others racist”

I am calling you that because you clearly are one. You could just replace the word finn with somali and you would sound exactly the same as the racist locals here. You aren’t any different from them. Get it, dipshit.

“Another thing: so what is the name and address (city is enough) of that old fashioned butcher shop in Finland? When I see it I belive it – not till then.”

It’s located at Tyysteri near Porvoo. They *gasp* even have those funny furriners like us working there as helps.(And *double gasp* it’s quite popular place among the locals, who would have thunk it the dirty locals actually do appreciate quality)

“Or that cheap place where you can get filet mignon? Cheap by the Central Europe standards, not Finnish ones.”

I never stated it would be just as cheap as in Central Europe or Brazil, it’s cheap enough compared to the ones found in regular k’s and asses. Unless you’re piss poor and dumb like you (who claims to have been living in Finland for a very long time yet doesn’t know about Hakaniemen kauppahalli, hmmmm) You’ll easily find quality products here and make due.

“And see – porks head is a very important part for many other cultures’ cuisine. Especially in Central Europe.”

And mämmi is a very important part of Finnish culture. Your point being?

“As well as a person from that part would never say that supermarkets in Finland have a big enough choice of meat products – NEVER.”

I said it was sufficient enough for me not that there is as equally large variety of meat products available as back home. You stated that there aren’t any fresh meat available here only the pre-marinated ones. You know dimwit, I am starting to think you really do posess the memory and other mental capabilities of a goldfish.

“You just proved – you bullshit with your lies.”

Go cry me a river. Do I need to send you my DNA sample for you to make sure that I am not some dirty lowly Finn but a proper European like you.

BTW are you and x the same person as you both seem to be making up shit as you go and tend to lose all arguments.

Seems like my message disappeared. Phil check your span filter becasue I am too tired to write another reply to asshat over here.

So quit your “Central European” crap:)You have probably never even passed any of real Europe before.

Cunt – you smell a true Finn like a stinky fish:) Write whatever you want to – your speech has told enough, born in metsä will always be the metsä troll.

Mussuka (or should that be “moussaka”), since you are so clearly suffering, wasting away your unique existence in a country not suitable to your tastes (pun intended) – and vent your misery by being hostile and insulting to everyone in sight, especially to the locals – please do tell us: Why are you still here (meaning Finland, not this discussion)? Is someone holding you hostage?!

..In case someone IS keeping you here by force, it’s surprising that they still allow you to use the internet. Have you never thought about getting help this way – contact Amnesty International, perhaps? maybe find someone to smuggle you out of the country?

What baffles ME really – is what is keeping YOU locals trying so hard to convince me and others that Finland is such a great place to be. No – correction, trying to convince us that black is white and contrawise. Like we are incapable of making our own observations and opinions.
Are you getting paid for spreading the bullshit propaganda about Finland being something else than it is?
See, I have always the escape route:))Nothing is keeping me here if I want to leave but how about you poor brainwashed and Finntoxicated people? Would you survive a year without your Mother Finland taking care of you? Soin fact, I pity you for being stuck forever in Finland.

Nice way to avoid answering the question, Mussuka. You could leave if you wanted, but still don’t – then what’s keeping you here? There must be something here that you really love (!!!) so much that you are willing to spend your life here. But I guess you’d rather die than admit that, so let’s just agree that you can keep your love for something Finnish a secret. I wouldn’t want a corpse on my conscience.

As far as I know, I have not spread any “propaganda about Finland” to foreigners anywhere. I have not made speeches, spammed anyone’s inbox or otherwise claimed Finland to be anything else than what it is. Where did you get that idea? You are welcome to come live here if you so decide, but I’m not responsible for that unfortunate decision, you are (and you’re welcome to leave as well).

Or is there really a Finnish conspiracy that lures hapless people and makes them move here on false premises, only to realize that they don’t want to live here but are mysteriously stuck and unable to go back? Sounds like a good plot for a movie…

And by the way, I’m confident I can move abroad at any time if I so choose. My job allows me to work anywhere in the world as long as I have a computer. A friend of mine moved to England in the 1990s, and I know someone who has been living in Germany for a long time, so it’s not unheard of. There are discussion boards for Finns living in Germany/Florida/etc. Maybe at some point I will move with my partner, or maybe not. This is not a police state that prevents anyone from moving anywhere they want – so how come we are “stuck forever in Finland”? Seems to me that it’s you who is stuck, and pitifully complaining about it…

Why would I need a particular country to “take care of me”? Now that’s a ridiculous idea if any.

Another troll wrote

“Cunt – you smell a true Finn like a stinky fish:) Write whatever you want to – your speech has told enough, born in metsä will always be the metsä troll.”

So when you are faced with facts and arguments that defeat everything you say. This is the best response you can give; a very boring unimaginative ad hominem.
Congratulations mussukka you just lost this argument(if you can really call it that). Now go and join X maybe the two of you can come up with some more original bullshit than this.

BTW you have some peculiar taste for a Central European, what with the chateaubriand with exotic salad and all.

To Cunt I won’t cother answering as he is an Idiot with that capital I. Even a wooden log has more brain cells that this one.

But to Baffled I have one question: why do you (and when I use term “you” I don’t mean just you but people of Finland)assume that once I or whoever else made this “unfortunate decision” to come and stay here for some time or even lifetime – we automaticaly HAVE TO love everything surrounding us here? Living in Finland does not make a person blind, stupid or immune to the truth.
If a shit stinks (sorry for that example) it will stink, even in Finland.
So – going back to food subject: in MY opinion it’s too expensive, too crappy, far too small variety. And one butcher shop in Kauppahalli (more an exotic spot for tourist than a shopping place for locals)will not change the fact that eg. meat supply here is as monopolized as alcohol sales.

Argue with that and not tell me: if you don’t like our monopolies, our Atria or Saaroinen “food” – move out. Because at the end of the day, I CAN move out but the same shit will remain here and stink.

I sense a bit of over analyzing, or presumption. Dear Mussuka, I don’t know who you meet in your daily life and what kind of things they assume of you. I can only speak for myself. I, for one, do NOT expect people moving here to love everything. I can’t imagine a country where everything would be perfect. If you (meaning anyone) move into a new country, there are bound to be some things that you really like there, and other things that you hate. It’s only natural. It’s not black-and-white but a whole bunch of grays.

I don’t think for a minute that people who move to Finland should fall in love with it and stop being critical about anything. That would be extremely naïve and outright stupid. But I also don’t think that Finland is the utter hell that you describe. I suppose there are worse places one could end up in – war, famine/malnutrition, natural catastrophes, mafia, large scale corruption, high infant death rate, pollution, lack of social security, illiteracy, lawful discrimination on the basis of gender/religion/sexual identity/etc. – they are hard or impossible to come by here, while some of them are more common even in the “leader of the world”, USA (infant death rate, for example). There are bad things and there are good things.

In a word, I expect people who move here to have the common sense either to 1) adapt enough so that they can live in a relative comfort, without being at war with the locals, or 2) have the capability to relocate somewhere else where they find things more agreeable. Unless you commit a crime and they put you in prison, that should not be impossibly hard to accomplish.

I agree that food is too expensive. And it would be nice if there was a larger variety. However, the variety is increasing all the time, even if it’s too slowly for you. (You may have noticed that some “normal” supermarkets now have shelves dedicated to food from Greece/USA/Japan/? No? Or – let me guess – still not enough variety?) Let me ask you: Do you think that if I went to a store in another country, I was *entitled* to find a shelve full of, say, Finnish rye bread, cloudberry jam, reindeer, mämmi, Karelian pasties etc.? I don’t think I was entitled to that. I would be prepared to order them via Internet or have someone bring them to me when they visited from my old country. So what is it that makes YOU so entitled to find all culinary tidbits of YOUR country everywhere in the world?

Which brings me to the point of the whole discussion: This is not about you or me being happy or enraged about the prices & variety. This is more about how you communicate your opinions. It’s one thing to criticize a country, to point out the faults, and to suggest improvements in a civilized manner. It’s another thing to generalize “all Finns are this and that”, to call them the worst names you can think of as if they all committed a terrible crime against you, to act hostile and racist, to exaggerate to the point of idiocy (“no fresh meat sold anywhere”), to moan and whine and bitch without one single practical solution as to what could be done, and generally make yourself an object of ridicule by aggressively slashing out at everyone and having a tantrum like a child who’s bitter because someone took their candy.

BTW, I don’t eat Atria or Saarioinen food. You don’t have to, either. We can both buy whatever fresh & frozen ingredients we can find – and thanks to Finnish “Every Man’s Rights”, go to “metsä” and get some fresh berries, mushrooms, herbs, fish and game – and cook our own dinners.

I have started to feel sorry for you, that’s all. You are clearly suffering or otherwise you would not have the need for verbal attacks, name calling and all that hate. It made me wonder why on Earth do you have to live here when you so plainly find only negative things to say about your new homeland (?). This is not to say “love it or move out”. I’m just, honestly, wondering why you don’t do yourself a favor and find a country where you can actually like the locals and their food. I’m sure I would.

Yes, I can also do that and move out, and let the “same shit stink here”. Nothing’s keeping me here forever. I don’t lose sleep over these things. But there is no guarantee that there would not be some shit stinking in some other country as well. Shades of gray…

(BTW, I changed my nick due to using a different computer the other day.)

“Dear Mussuka, I don’t know who you meet in your daily life “- unfortunately people like you, Cunt or those, that cannot stand a ONE word of criticism.

“But I also don’t think that Finland is the utter hell that you describe.” – saying your food stores suck is making an utter hell of Finland? There you see how YOU guys can take a different opinion.

“I suppose there are worse places one could end up in – war, famine/malnutrition, natural catastrophes, mafia, large scale corruption, high infant death rate, pollution, lack of social security, illiteracy, lawful discrimination on the basis of gender/religion/sexual identity/etc. – they are hard or impossible to come by here” -
let’s go one by one about this list:
1. war – has Finland never been at war?
2. faminine/malnutrition – you have enough people here,especially older or even kids, who survive on a minimum food daily. There are kids at schools, who have to manage with the school lunch only and thank god they get at least food at school. The reasons are two – some families survive on a very minimum, some spend the food money on booze. One way or another it’s not any Eldorado place for many Finns.
3. natural catastrophes – these don’t make any place a hell, as you said – these are natural and not imposed by people. These catastrophes happen once in a very long time, being robbed by polititians – is an everyday hell
4. mafia – well, not organized, true. But what you call the Alko owners???
5.large scale corruption – my dear, you say corruption when there is an envelope of money passed under the table. Corruption is also when one company is doing a special favour to another under some conditions (material conditions)leaving the others out. Haven’t heard of these in Finland? Well, I work in such.
What is nepotism in your eyes, such a common problem here?
6.high infant death rate – nowadays not high, however go back not even 100 years back and the situation would be a BIT different. In fact, much worse than in other European countries. One reason was faminine, very severe in Finland.
7.pollution – you praise people for that or rather lack of people? There is very small pollution in Alaska too.Or in Sahara for that matter.
8.lack of social security – of course not, I pay my taxes for that:)
9. lawful discrimination – that is forbidden in many countries, hardly I can imagine a point in some constitution saying “one is entitled to discriminate a woman, muslim or a black person”. Of course women’s position differ in various religions but that’s not discrimination – that’s their law. What you consider as discrimination, for a muslim woman is a normal priviledge (to sit at home and bear babies).
However, unlegal discrimination – now there is another story, isn’t it? School or work bullying as a big problem here.

Well, my point anyway is not to paint now Finland black – I am just saying, there are enough grey colours on your blue sky as everywhere else. Food supply here is the example of a grey big cloud. Finland is not a hell but far from paradise too.

And why you deny me the right to say it clear and loud? In this country of freedom, tolerance and equal rights – I cannot say what I feel??? Like it or not – that’s my point of view.

“unfortunately people like you, Cunt or those, that cannot stand a ONE word of criticism.”

Unfortunatly to you I can take criticism. Finland is just like any other country out there with it’s faults and all. What I can’t take is absolute idiocy and racism from people like you.

BTW is the magic thing that happens to keep you here to be a free education because you seem to be dodging this guestion and can’t admit of being a leech. You sure as hell smell like one.

“Mussuka”, I’m getting a bit tired of repeating myself here. If after this post you still pretend you don’t understand, then so be it.

I said I never claimed Finland to be paradise, yet you seem to insist that I did – or do you still mean “you” = all Finns? I can take criticism better than you, judging by the fact that I can have an adult discussion without reverting to swearing and insulting (read your older posts here) in order to get my point across.

“saying your food stores suck is making an utter hell of Finland? There you see how YOU guys can take a different opinion.”

That is not what I meant and you know it. You have not only complained about food stores but also about the people and basically everything here. If you read your own posts you might notice that your negative and bitter attitude covers a lot more than the food stores. But whatever, you can see it that way if you want.

Many countries have changed a lot over the last 100 years, but this is not a lesson on history. Would it be possible to talk about the modern times? Or even the present? Finland was at war in a time when almost all European countries were at war, and infant death rates have been higher in the past everywhere. Trying to compare things to how they were in the past is a deliberate scam that you use to steer the discussion even further from the actual topic.

You know full well that by malnutrition I meant people dying of hunger, not poor families living on welfare (that, once again, can be found in every country).

One point that you missed is that there is no mafia, natural catastrophes, high infant death rate, major pollution, lawful discrimination etc. *REGARDLESS of the reasons* for their non-existence. We could make an even bigger off-topic and discuss why’s & where’s for days, but that was not the point. The point was that there are also numerous serious problems which are commonplace in many other countries but not here.

“What you consider as discrimination, for a muslim woman is a normal priviledge (to sit at home and bear babies).”

How can you know how many women in the stricktest muslim countries would give up that “privilege” and go to work (or stop having babies when feel they’ve had enough, or visit a neighboring country without needing to ask a male relative’s permission etc. etc.) if only that was an option for them? Or if they were even aware that such an option could exist, somewhere?

I had already said: “I can’t imagine a country where everything would be perfect. If you (meaning anyone) move into a new country, there are bound to be some things that you really like there, and other things that you hate. It’s only natural. It’s not black-and-white but a whole bunch of grays.”
You then said: “I am just saying, there are enough grey colours on your blue sky as everywhere else. Food supply here is the example of a grey big cloud. Finland is not a hell but far from paradise too.”
-> As you can see, I ALREADY SAID that there are nice and not-so-nice things about every country, and no place is perfect, and neither is Finland. What are you trying to accomplish by repeating my own thoughts & words back to me – even using my metaphor of grays – as if it was something new that you just came up with? You must really think I’m too stupid to notice.

I, for one, have admitted many times over that things COULD be better here (despite your insisting that “we Finns” never do that). But there are also some positive points I mentioned in my earlier posts that you choose to ignore. Everything is not as gloomy as you claim it to be. But this is something that you in turn you would never admit because apparently it would feel like an apology. Or maybe you’re the kind that always concentrates on the negative, everything is always wrong and nothing is right? In that case I feel even more sorry for you.

You are free to your opinion. Maybe you just might want to consider how you make that opinion known – unless, of course, you get your kicks from insulting everyone and don’t mind appearing hopelessly narrow minded, uncivilized, immature, racist, hostile and disgusting. What you say and how you say it are two different things.

I have never tried to stop you from saying your opinion. Making this an issue of freedom of speech is a huge overstatement. As I’m sure you are well aware, I have only criticized your ways of expression: hatred, arrogance, name-calling, generalization, verbal attack etc. Your posts are also full of Ad Hominem, “red herrings”, moving the goalpost and other fallacies that make it very tiresome to try and have a rational discussion with you.

…So it’s about time I went to do something else

Marjo, don´t waste your breath on her. Go and check her multiple vomits on http://www.uranus.fi message board. She goes by a name Hepehepe. Now she has just found a new playground here for her infantile rants and unbelievable arrogance and ignorance.

And Cunt, our Mussukka-Tussukka is in Finland because she is married to a Finnish man. Poor man. Married a woman who despises everything he is.

Thanks, presso.

The thought of a Finnish spouse crossed my mind as well, because it was such an obvious reason for Mussuka’s silence on the subject: No way she could admit to loving something/someone Finnish! Maybe in time, armed with her superior intellect, she will find a way to persuade her spouse to leave Finland behind so they can go live wherever it is that she came from.

Well, it was fun – and “fun” – as long as it lasted. In a way it would have been nice to get some proper answers/comments to the many points I made in the earlier posts, instead of just mean, thick-headed and fallacy-filled trampling, but alas, not everyone is cut for adult conversations.

Have a nice spring time everyone =)

Ha ha presso:)) What a Sherlock you are – but first prove to me that I am even HER you dickyhead.
Married to a Finn – that would be a fun.

You guys (or gals) must jhave really boring lives to try and investigate others’:))

Btw. why is a foreign forum so full of Finnish scum??

Ahah….to all people who are complaining about Finland! why dont you pack your stuff and go to your better country?

Do you wanna be in Finland? eat Finnish food and shut up! nobady is asking you in here!

P.S: I am Italian

Byeee

LOL @ tussuka

I’m going to Finland this summer for 5 days and I was wondering how much money I should bring. My best friend and I are going to experience Ruisrock and from past festival experience I’ve learned that things usually are a lot more expensive in the festival area. Please answer quickly!

Thanks ^^

I do agree the prices are way too high in helsinki, i’ve been told by friends who live out of the reigon the prices are actually a bit cheaper. I’m of finnish herritage, but i was born in australia. I get people looking into my shopping basket to see what i have bought and got told more than a few times i’m buying fancy foods. Not all of us can live on one thing or another. I litterly buy food from various places based on the price. If it wasn’t for the Tajstalous (sorry for the spelling)i don’t think i could afford much. My finnish friends do eat other types of food and they don’t like it how they can’t get particular ingrediants because customs don’t think it’s right. What i don’t understand is why do i get a dirty look for asking for self-raising flour when i am not in stockmann.

Marjo, you sound like you’re having a period. Is that true? You are a smelly fucking cunt!