Finland is moving to the right. What a surprise that the racist right-wing extremist party is the biggest winner in these elections. A telling sign of Europe’s most xenophobic and racist country. Don’t even try to deny that they are a xenophobic party: you’d find that a big proportion of their candidates and voters are racist and anti-foreigner as are most Finns themselves.

Oh and I am talking about the True Finns party.

stop your crying you baby and drink some milk and go back to bed. wake up when you peed your panties and clean yourself up. silly pinky

Honestly,I hope that True Finns win all the coming elections too with the most seats inside the parliament, that they can kick all us (Foreigners) outside Finland. i am so glad to see Finns express themselves without hypocrisy, and honest at least once. So if they don’t want Foreigners in here( shown in the latest poll by Iltalehti), must be said frankly. And God bless the freedom of voting…

Congratulations to Finland for joining the move to the right with the rest of Europe. Congratulations True Finns and National Coalition for your victories.

If the right is to finally get a chance to beat down the left-fascists of the red parties, it needs to happen across the entire Union – to ensure they can’t regroup.

I’m proud again that I’m part Finn.

In the next election, true Finn will Win by even higher margin. I predict they will climb to 15-17% from present 5%.

Economic downturn–> degradation of lifestyle–> find easy escape goat–> Damn foreigners!–> more votes for True Finns.

Congratulations to all the winners and good luck next time to all who didn’t make it this time

Congratulations to the True Finns party,who believe in
maintaining Finnish culture and traditions,and resisting the
the multiculturalism and political correctness that seeks to destroy the nation states in EURABIA!

True Finns are not a right-wing party. On economic issues they are pretty much on par with the Left Alliance. Of course, they are a bunch of populist kooks, so voting for them is like a box of chocolates. And in practice, despite their big mouths, they tend to rubber stamp everything handed to them by the major parties.

SDP really has to come up with something new besides negative campaigning against kokoomus. They’re fighting for survival.

Incidendally, the lone kook of Helsinki got double the votes since last time.

Yes well done True Finns – I can’t wait to get kicked out of Finland.

http://www.digthewig08.com/

I doubt the True Finns will get much more than this.
However (and this coming from a foreigner), I don’t think it is an entirely bad thing that they gained in strength.
I much rather that those racist Finns express themselves by voting, rather than beating immigrants up.
Also, you could argue that the left needs them to drum up support among their ranks. The same way that Bush needed Al Qaeda and vice versa, both to justify their existence. Besides, isn’t that what politicians do?

I’d like to see the True Finns win also just so that the world can see Finland’s true nature: an anti-foreigner xenophobic racist paradise.

#8 True Finns are not a right-wing party. On economic issues they are pretty much on par with the Left Alliance.

Soini stated as far as his party politics go they are not “right-wing”, they are “right”. And he said he won’t follow Kokoomus as a lapdog.

Besides which the rhetorics questioning of the current (nonexisting) immigration policy isn’t exactly anything that the True Finns say differently from say Harry Bogomoloff of the National Coalition:

http://www.bogoweb.com/teesit.html
“Tutkimusten mukaan Suomi ehkä tarvitsee maahanmuuttajia, onko todella näin? Maahanmuuttopolitiikan pitääkin perustua työvoimatarpeeseen eikä hyviin sosiaalisiin etuihin. Maahanmuuttajille on järjestettävä tehokas pakollinen suomen kielen opetus. Tulijoiden on sopeuduttava suomalaiseen elämänmenoon, eikä päinvastoin. Katso myös teesi 13.

Kerjäläisten ”ymmärtäminen” ja hyysääminen on lopetettava ja heidät on päättäväisesti palautettava lähtöruutuun. Suomi on itse noussut kurjuudesta menestykseen, tehköön toiset perässä.”

True Finns right wing and and xenophobic? yeah, right, whats that make Kokoomus then?

As interesting as it would be to see some action from the True Finns against the multi-culti-madness shoved down our throats by the Vihreät, SDP and (to some extent) RKP, I seriously doubt they’ll be able to do much anything.

But yeah, maybe you stinkin’ foreginers best start bailing out now, before the first camps are built.

Get real folks! Soini is nothing like the dead faggot in Austria. Most true finns I spoke to are only saying that foreigners and finns should be treated the same way by our famous byrocracy, that is as long as a refugees get housing, everybody should get housing too, as long as the refugees get guidance on the byrocracy everybody else should get some assistance too etcetc, and this includes you working taxpaying foreigners too.
Race card is so easy to swing around. Instead of screaming the same old shit (which has not worked in any european country by the way) you should think about what breeds these attitudes towards foreigners. If there is a problem, try to solve it. Calling finns rascists and stupid is certainly not the way to make any friends for foreigners.
This type of bullshit is just hysterics from the greens and leftists.
They have adopted all the foreigners for themselves and act high and mighty when ever they talk about global issues and all that shit, but foreigners should remember that greens have been in the goverment for a while and they are also part of ruling elite in Helsinki. They have been doing the policy towards you immigrants for a while but, like idiots, you believe somehow their bullshit about their undying love for every belly dance teatcher and exotic instrument playing black dude from anywhere Africa, when in all actuality they are one of the parties which make our policies towards immigrants and foreigners. Figure that.
Greens are much more rascist than any other political group that I know. I should know this because as a young student I was engaged with a woman who was one of the founders of the whole green mess. They have a very deep conviction that you foreigners can not solve your problems on your own. They “know” that only they can rescue black men of Africa, and save the developing world women from the white men(? go figure?), and teach you what is right and what is wrong in your cultures. Ring a bell??
Yep, that was the same attitude of the white missionaries during 1800′s. They Know better than you what is good for you and for anybody because they Know the truth.
Also this Bogolomoff guy, he could not even run for office in true finns but in National coalition party he can. Figure that out.
PS. I voted an communist labour party candidate and yes, he did not make it.

Francis “Frane” McCarron was in fact elected vice member of the Helsinki City Council. Most likely he will also be appointed member of a committee or a board, which directs and develops the activities of the city departments and offices.

“Get real folks! Soini is nothing like the dead faggot in Austria…..blah blah…. Calling finns rascists and stupid is certainly not the way to make any friends for foreigners….blah blah blah… They have been doing the policy towards you immigrants for a while but, like idiots, you believe somehow their bullshit about their undying love for every belly dance teatcher blah blah blah .”- sam the ham

Sam, your true colors shine through here like a crap in the pants.

You may beg to differ, and you may not even believe it yourself, but I have to say, believe it or not: you sound like a bigoted, racist asswipe.

You and your “faggot” this and “idiot foreigners” that. Congratulations on voting for someone who has no control, by the way… It must be a familiar feeling.

The True Finns aren’t racist at all. Trust me. I’m a racist. I wish they were too, but they aren’t.

So no we don’t get to burn you all in the camps now.

At least I’m not an inbred alcoholic Nazi sympathizer.

The emergence of extreme rightist populism is a serious threat to this country. I can only hope the 5% of municipal representatives that are from True Finns will face a coördinated balancing force from the moderate section of the political spectrum.

Dave did say something to offend you? Have you been fooled by the Greens too? I’m so sorry.
I sound the way I do, just like you do, but I don’t call you tight asshole cocksucking diaper pants bullshit artist, even if you are one.
I’m not a bigot. I have friends from all over the world. I don’t hate anybody because of their race, color or creed. I have been with women of all sorts. Some of my friends are gays. I just don’t pretend and pose, you understand Dave?
I’m not one of those who please you face to face and tell you what you want to hear, and then piss on your back and say it is raining. Bet you are one of those Dave and that is why don’t like the way I say things.
See the difference between me and bullshitters like you is this: my word is my word. I back it up all the way. I say what I mean, not what I think others want to hear. Guys like you would speak out but don’t have balls, that is why you always have to pretend that you are with the intelligenzia, that you are civilized and smart and what ever.
That is why you get angry when someone says what he/she thinks. You get offended. You get nervous. Somebody is actually saying what he thinks and that is not your way. So the only course you can take is mouthing off.
Guess what, it makes no difference what you think. I keep on speaking my mind. You keep bullshitting trough your life if it makes you feel good. Main thing is that we both can say what ever we want, even if it is such crap as yours.

“coördinated.” – Olli

Ooh! He reads The New Yorker.

AND good comment.

No, not New Yorker. Edith Wharton.

“I’m not a bigot. I have friends from all over the world. I don’t hate anybody because of their race, color or creed. I have been with women of all sorts. Some of my friends are gays. I just don’t pretend and pose, you understand Dave?” – sam the ham

No, I don’t understand. If you have “friends who are gay,” then why would you call them faggots? If you have friends from away, why would you call foreigners “idiots” like you did in your previous post?

Do you go out with your faggoty and idiot foreigner friends and call them idiots and faggots?

If you do as you so insist, “speak your mind,” then you must be the guy I see most Sunday mornings in the kioski, the one with the black eyes and fat lip.

#19: In these troubling times we should retain all excess food for our own reserves (along with the bottled water, iodine tablets and 7.62mm ammunition) instead of wantonly distributing it to trolls.

As a foreigner I would say ‘let’s stay and fight’. We’ve cleaned their stinking toilets for long enough and we’re going to fight with all our will to continue doing so.
True Finn’s can you see us now – an army of foreign toilet cleaners and bin emptiers. The threat is real and you must be quaking in your boots.

#26: Around this time the average True Finns voter is downing his 11th pint, paid for by your tax euros.

Jesus. Unbelievable. No one is about to deport you, although you’re clearly so dumb that we should before you spread your awful genes around.

If you think the True Finns are “extreme”, you have absolutely no clue how extreme things will get if we just keep pretending that Third World immigration isn’t an utter disaster and do nothing about it.

What about European-wide migration? Should we do something about that?

jaakkeli,

Which countries do you consider Third World? If you are referring to African nations, you might benefit from learning that it has vastly richer gene pool than any other part of the world. The second in that respect is Asia.

Having said that, I would most certainly be willing to deport criminals. Then again this also applies to Finnish criminals. Unfortunately I doubt anyone would be willing to take them, now would they?

#29: According to the True Finns we should get rid of the EU and have an exciting currency of our own, just like in Iceland. They are full of ideas!

#30: Siberia worked in the 19th century, it should work now. We even have a volunteer guinea pig in Tony Halme. Oh, wait…

As for the deportation of foreign criminals, it is being done all the time. It just isn’t very widely reported, giving an excellent opportunity for the TFs to exploit their somewhat less informed base. Remember the Somali youths who terrorised the railway station a while back? Guess where they are now?

The US doesn’t have very good experience with the deportation of immigrant gang members though.

20, that§s actually the one thing I don§t like about the True Finns. I§m not against the EU, I support lowering borders between pretty much any country that has a similar living standard. Hopefully, one day Russia, China, Turkey etc have reached levels where lowering borders wouldn§t automatically bury a small nation under a flood… one day.

It§s just that the day isn§t even close and all the mainstream parties refuse to talk about it. Instead they§re busily talking about importing ever more illiterate Muslim goatherders, as if there§s any chance of integrating them into a hi-tech/service economy. And of course that is going to make Finns less angry about immigration…

Finnish people have both freedoms and advantages. Implicit in choosing to vote for the True Finns is the protection of those advantages which they see as being undermined by increased immigration.
First-generation immigrants have the same freedoms as Finns but few of the same advantages. Regardless of whether they have Finnish language skills or not there is not a parity between a Finn and an immigrant even after 5 or more years of integration.
So what does an immigrant do? Keeps quiet. Gets on with his/her life. Tries over the years to improve his/her situation. Works or tries to find work. Has a family and pays taxes.
For the economy to grow, then immigrants with freedoms but no real advantages, are in demand. When the economy shrinks the immigrant who has experienced no material advantage over a native Finn is the first to lose their job and be targeted as a being a problem for society.
There is no doubt in my mind that the supporters of the True Finns party are xenophobic and racist. There is also little doubt in my mind that they exploit these tendencies among their supporters to inch further into the decision making process.
And what happen when racists and xenophobes feel that they have representatives who have power and can make and effect policy and decision making?
Well lets see but history has shown us what happens.
I see this in every European country and support from

Apologies for typos in my above post. Don’t have the luxury of an edit function.

Oops I didn’t mean 20… and how did that § thing happen? :-p

30: I don’t give a fuck about the “richness” of the African gene pool or anyone’s gene pool, whatever the hell that’s supposed to mean. What I care about is that every country in Africa, a lot of countries in Asia and some countries in the Americas are so poor and populous that we need serious immigration controls or we’re utterly swamped.

There are more eager scammers and criminals out there than the whole total of the Finnish population. Yet all the mainstream parties think that pointing out this completely obvious thing is horrible, horrible racism.

Asylums, for example, are a pure scam and should not be granted.

There is no doubt in my mind that the supporters of the True Finns party are xenophobic and racist.

Not really. I am racist but not xenophobic.

@36
An interesting example from being “swamped” (as you put it) by immigration is New York city. In 1900 95% of its population were immigrants or children of immigrants (Bill Bryson: Made in America). Yet it remains economically the most dynamic place on earth, now with lower crime rates than most major European cities. The answer to fighting crime wasn’t intolerance for foreigners, but intolerance for crime.

that was of course @37, not @36.

These are the guys that are happiest at the moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n149YiSrrno
What a laugh. Has anyone ever seen this ‘unsurpassed king’ actually fight?
Regardless of Tony Halme you wonder just how many of his ‘unsurpassed’ ilk are out there?

#1 Moving to the right? I guess you need to take into consideration these were municipal elections. Now if the same amount of votes would have been given in the Parliamentary elections, the results would have been more or less compared with the last elections:

National Coalition 52 (50) +2
SDP 48 (45) +3
Centre 45 (51) -6
Left Alliance 17 (17) 0
Greens 15 (15) 0
SFP 10 (9) +1
Christian Democrats 6 (7) -1
True Finns 6 (5) +1

So I don’t see any huge leaps there – except the Centre getting an asswhooping. Their strongholds in the boonies are collapsing. Though the Parliamentary elections get much different outcomes with joined lists, so the outcomes aren’t directly comparable. For example in some counties the “nonaligned” groups took almost half of the seats rather than “established parties”. Then again in some parties are “established”, one can only dream of Swedish People’s Party ratings like in Korsnäs 96.3% or Närpiö 92.0%… Centre has though Merijärvi 89.9%… usually getting past 30% is an excellent result.

In other words, NYC is rich, but it has turned into it’s own little microcosm with little to do with the people who were previously there. I’m sure those native Americans now see the benefits of being swamped and gaining an economic center!

Still, we could really use a lot of the American attitude on immigration. No infinite welfare. You come, we wait and see if you can fit in, if you can, fine, if not, boot. Actual deportations. As it is, we’ve handed citizenships to repeat child rapists and killers. The best part is that the time they spend in jail counts for their citizenship application. Now which party is the one that’s speaking against this madness? Which party is the only one who doesn’t think that immigrants are special super moral people who deserve all sorts of privileges that will never be considered for Finns?

BTW New York was cleaned up when they got fed up with the crackpot surrender-to-crime-is-humane left and elected tough on crime people. Republicans! In New York! People who think very much like the True Finns! Which political party in Finland is the most likely to harshen the punishments?

Jaakeli, you are really funny racist.How you could compare Finland to States. make me laugh..

“Which political party in Finland is the most likely to harshen the punishments?”

I presume you mean True Finns, which may well be the case. However they will also, if they can, stop immigration altogether. That latter part is not what I want. Every single immigrant, even one without any money at all, will at the very least contribute to aggregate consumption, i.e. the volume of economy. As long as we live in market-driven world, growth is practically synonymous with competitiveness. In the future, as now, internal competition will be a major factor in purchase power of Finns and the best way to attract investment is a growing market.

However I fully see the wisdom in the Republican party’s policy on immigration. In fact, I’ve always felt that what America are doing better than Europe is their “take-it-or-leave-it” attitude: relative open-mindedness toward immigrants combined with high demands of integration/assimilation and strong sense of nationalism. We should heed for that in Finland, too.

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n149YiSrrno
What a laugh. Has anyone ever seen this ‘unsurpassed king’ actually fight?”

I can’t find any article from web, but some years ago Halme beat up 10 morocco guy alone in barcelona when they tryed to rob him. So you can go and try.

#45, you are right. The key here is the process of absorption, and that’s what you could find in the American model and the French one. Here in Finland, foreigners haven’t been absorbed yet by the society and that’s finns duty!

#46.I remember that too, but the truth is that Tony was friend of those guys who tried to rob him. I think drugs friendships! At the end they send him to hospital with a knife planted in his A$$.

#24 If you have friends from away, why would you call foreigners “idiots” like you did in your previous post?

Because of the inherently stupid people posting here. Like number #1 – a telling sign we get Europe’s most stupid immigrants.

However they will also, if they can, stop immigration altogether.

Ridiculous. I voted for this guy:

http://www.halla-aho.com/scripta/

He has 217 blog posts up. Can you find me the one where he promises to stop immigration altogether? Of course not. He’s a snarky guy and likes making fun of people dumb enough to make up such infantile strawmen. (It’s probably good that he’s not the head guy of the party.)

How about the leader? Timo Soini doesn’t support that idea either. There may be some candidate around who does, but I doubt that. I’ve not heard of it. It’s like the stuff I hear from looney Christian relatives: the international left wants to abort all babies since it hates humanity, the international left is planning to ban Christmas and so on. Never do they actually bother to meet those nefarious lefties and ask what they want. Too dangerous – if you talked to the enemy, you might actually find out it’s made up of normal people who don’t have horns.

However I fully see the wisdom in the Republican party’s policy on immigration. In fact, I’ve always felt that what America are doing better than Europe is their “take-it-or-leave-it” attitude: relative open-mindedness toward immigrants combined with high demands of integration/assimilation and strong sense of nationalism. We should heed for that in Finland, too.

Well, then, we have one political party that believes in the exact same thing as you do as its core message. In fact, as much as it HAS a core message, it’s that, since on almost every other issue it’s a rainbow party. You’re all welcome there if you really believe that!

#46 I don’t think it was ten… maybe he was seeing double…

Here in Finland, foreigners haven’t been absorbed yet by the society and that’s finns duty!

We absorbed plenty of foreigners pre-WWII, more than those countries now stereotyped as immigrant destinations (like Sweden). We were even a real refugee destination from various wars we were connected to through the Russian empire.

How did we do it? We *didn’t*. We passed a few laws finally giving equal status to Jews and Muslims about a century ago and then just considered it *their* duty to accustom themselves to our laws and customs. As a result, the old Russian, Yugoslav, Tatar etc communities are almost completely absorbed.

It’s all broken *now* because we’ve declared immigrants special victim people who need everything done for them by Finns, who have no responsibility to integrate on their own and who must be constantly shielded from any assimilating pressures. It’s insane – we’ve created this regime where we spend government money on boosting resistance to assimilation!

I’ve read mr Halla-Aho’s essays, and I never felt he is a racist. Nor do I think that of Soini. I am talking about the party as a whole, which does include a number openly fascist members, and presumably, in any case, very few people who would harbor any pro-immigration views at all. Either way, True Finns have now the chance to prove me wrong. If so, then may be I will vote for them in the next elections. I seriously doubt that, however.

My fear regarding True Finns’ sudden popularity is really not the party itself, but the real possibility that violent groups will be inspired (for lack of a better word) by their success. At least immigrants can be assimilated – if not always integrated. Home-grown criminal groups on the other hand cannot.

”Walk a mile in a mans shoes” – or so the saying goes. Life for immigrants in Finland is not easy at all. If immigrants are not needed then yes it would be better if they didn’t come here because really I’m not sure Finland is what I would call a land of opportunity.
Actually by European standards immigration to Finland is very low.
Perhaps the True Finns have a kind of gate keeper attitude – perhaps it’s wise for the immigrant to take notice of this.

One may admire the US Republicans’ stand on immigration, but that’s it: it’s just a stand. They have been unable to enact effective laws. I highly recommend not following the US example. It’s a mess.

This is just one of those issues where people on the left and on the right both have legitimate ideas about how to do it correctly. The only way to get a good system is to compromise (or beat each other into a state of equivalent satisfaction – same thing!) I don’t think I know enough to state a position on Finland’s predicament. So I’ll just talk about the States for a bit: I am pro-immigration, and am certain that we need immigrants for economic growth. I am first generation myself. But I also think it’s bullshit to say “undocumented worker” instead of “illegal aliens” – this just makes law-abiding citizens mad – more so the further down the economic scale you go. And it’s insane to not be careful about admitting criminals or people who will never contribute economically (except for controlled number of family relations and refugees because it’s the right thing to do).

If the US can be any example, it may be that if just degenerates into name calling and taking a position of moral superiority against those you disagree with, then nothing gets done and the political right tends to lose on this issue.

Don’t confuse political correctness with a bit of compromise needed to actually be effective. And as for “diaper pants”, seriously Dude…..

Finland is the land of opportunity… opportunity to pay taxes.

Looking at the statistics I think the rates of immigration for Finland are very very low. I’m not sure now why this is such as sensitive issue at all. I mean according to official stats there are only something like 4.000 Somalians resident in Finland. Also the vast majority of foreigners permanently resident in Finland are European. Like the VAST majority are European.

which does include a number openly fascist members,

I keep hearing so but never do I hear the names. Retract or deliver, please.

My fear regarding True Finns’ sudden popularity is really not the party itself, but the real possibility that violent groups will be inspired (for lack of a better word) by their success.

That’s my fear, too. The experience from other countries shows that the True Finn candidates and their families are now in danger from “anti-fascist” thugs, in the worst case they’ll pay with their lives as many who have refused to keep silent on immigration have done.

Again, all projection by multiculti nutties on a respectable party. There is no more reason to fear violence from the True Finn party than from, say, the Swedish Folk Party (no matter how much I hate minorities and especially Swedes, I have to admit that). There is certainly much, much less reason to fear violence from supporters of True Finns than, for example, supporters of the Green party who *do* have a history of political vandalism and terrorism (although in Finland still mild).

It’s these double standards that truly get people angry. The Greens, for example, have had unrepentant vandals and (mild) terrorists in their ranks and count supporters like Linkola who openly advocate and admire Naziism. If the True Finns had similar extremists in its ranks, they’d think it scandalous enough to make international headlines. Some parties are more equal than others.

Hey Olli,

I voted for True Finns. But before you start telling me that I’m a racist, biggot, or something else, let me explain my reasons.

These were municipal elections. Whoever gets elected, will have very little impact on the national immigration policy.

It is in the interest of the leaders of the main parties to consider municipal elections as pre-elections for parliament. It is in the interest of the voter to consider who would best represent his municipal policy interests.

I live in the Helsinki metropolitan area. The most important issue for me in these elections was to preserve the multi-municipality structure of Helsinki metropolitan area, and thus to preserve the inhabitant’s ability to keep the local politbyros competing for the taxpayer by offering good public services/taxes -ratios. If there is just one municipality, there is just one politbyro, and no competition.

Moderate right, Greens, and Sos.dems have strong supporters for the unification. By voting any politician in any of those parties, I would have voted for the greater-Helsinki administrative monopoly. The elected representatives tend to vote according to group decisions, which would have meant that I voted for the unification even if I chose a politician who personally declared to be against unification.

As you must have noticed, the Kokoomus politicians have already given pro-unification statements when they figured out they won in the elections.

Soini, on the other hand, has clearly opposed uniting the municipalities. His opinion pretty much influences the True Finns voting behavior on this matter and they were my best bet for my interests. Of course my posite impression of his personal integrity and pro-entrepreneurship attitude help, too.

jaakkeli – mmigration is a really hot topic these days, but did you know that of the 130.000 foreigners who are resident in Finland over 48.000 are from European countries? Something like 26.000 are from Russia. How many from the whole of Africa? Just over 10.000 people come from Africa. Which is roughly the same amount of Asian people living in Finland.
I mean these numbers are tiny and yet it seems to be such a big issue with you and people of your type.
Are you saying that 10.000 Africans in the whole of Finland is too many? How about Asians? And what of the Russians living here?
Now I get to see that yeah this racism really might be true. Such a big issue made out of 10.000 Africans coming to live in Finland.

Jaakeli said – ” If the True Finns had similar extremists in its ranks, they’d think it scandalous enough to make international headlines. Some parties are more equal than others.”
Is Jouko Juvonen aka Carl Danhammer still a member? What about Jussi Halla-aho?
This is a populist neo-right-wing party. They want votes and will do anything to get them. You can see that they are getting them too because of the issues about joining the Helsinki and Espoo metropolitan areas together.

“I keep hearing so but never do I hear the names. Retract or deliver, please.”

Halme, Frederik are probably some of the more famous ones. In my political map they are well in the non-centric area. Then there was that guy from Turku whose name does not come to my mind. Apparently even the nut case Seppo Lehto’s campaign received somekind of contribution from Tampere’s True Finns, though he isn’t a member.

Also, True Finns is the only party that has given me the impression of fascist tendencies, so they must be doing something really wrong, if they are not at all like that.

“There is no more reason to fear violence from the True Finn party than from, say, the Swedish Folk Party”

As I wrote, the party itself is hardly my fear here. If anything, parliament and municipal boards are the best forum for debate – not the street. I’m expecting to see growth in violence from groups who are not necessarily even directly connected to True Finns. Whether this will actualise remains to be seen, but I hope to be proven wrong.

#59

Foreign people make 70% espoo’s rapes and 50% helsinki’s rapes. So who are those foreign people? Americans? Europeans? Aasians?

If you add finnish domestic violence, those numbers will look quite infinitesimal!

Andy, the staggering amount of shit I’ve seen from such a small number of Africans is exactly what has made me so opposed to immigration.

I used to be pro-immigration, too, a naive country boy believing all that liberal “we’re all the same” stuff I learned from the TV. Since moving to Helsinki, I’ve encountered diversity in person and I’ve known people who’ve had it much worse – robbed, beaten or raped. Not by Asians or Europeans: I have no problem at all with Chinese or Russian immigration. Trouble comes from Africa and the Middle East and therefore I think immigration from those regions should be reduced to an absolute minimum and preferably reversed.

By now I have rather little interest in opposing racism or listening to lefties who demand me to develop a desire to help these people.

Olli, Halme is hardly a “fascist”. He’s too dumb to even have an ideology. Frederik, yeah, I can totally see myself waking up to discover that we’re ruled by Reichsführer Frederik. Seppo Lehto ran as a Christian candidate, so does the Christian party have scary fascist connections, too?

These are pretty lousy attempts to find fascist connections.

Apparently the comment thread is also crying foul over the success of what apparently is the finnish KKK-88-Hitler association.
I voted for them too, because KKK-88-Hitler party was the only one bringing forth intelligent people and issues, instead of ad agency campaigns and empty dreams.

And to those who say immigration, or should we say the ethnic makeup of a region is too small of an isuse to vote on, I’d like to note that almost anything the green/social democrats destroy and fuckup can be fixed, but if they succeed in transforming the capital into a muslim ghetto it can never be undone.

jaakkeli, how about you moving back to that hole in the ground you crawled out of if you have a problem with our town?

Damn hillbillies, coming here to take our jobs and our women…

#24 Hi Dave! I call them faggots because they call themselves as faggots, also as hintti, homppeli, geijo, puppeli, knights of a brown hole etcetc. They tend to be more humorous than those who pretend to be their advocates and defenders. Granted, there are those who despise the gay community and hate them, but I’m not one of them. I just don’t pretend to be high and mighty.
Idiots are idiots, no matter where they come from. Just because you are an immigrant does not stop me calling you an idiot, if you are one. Just like any native finn who is an idiot is an idiot, no matter where he is from.
If I have a black eye and fat lip, you should check out the other guy from the hospital near you. But I doubt I am the guy since I haven’t had a black eye for years now. I’m much older and mellow and wiser. Seldom I do fight anymore.
I prefer to deal situations with intellect and walk away from confrontations which in the old days resulted in fistfights. I just take a note of the guy, what is his name and what he looks like, who are his friends, where does this motherfucker lives and works, and then… Well, lets just say that it is no use to go to court for a little hassle like that.

If there’s going to be an economic down spiral it’s not going to help the True Finns. When economy is bad people will turn back to old parties that advocate more responsible welfare state. People don’t want to gamble when their social benefits are on the line during a recession.

#64 listening to lefties who demand me to develop a desire

Desire has been duly noted, next shipment from Tampere is on Thursday, cranberry sauce ready.

It is funny how Vanhanen says today “Finland needs work-based immigration.” That is exactly the point that Halla-Aho has written about. *Work* But as always Vanhanen is clueless. Or does he want to import an army of toilet-cleaners and other service workers to create the underclass for auntie Astrid? So nice to see that the abolitionists are called racists while the slave-owners are multicultural.

#57 It seems you cannot grasp the difference that some people come here quite legally and because the job market actually needs them, and some people just come here, legally or illegally without any desirable skills and then complain the streets are not paved with gold. Add to this the fact that illegal immigrants abuse the whole refugee/asylum system to the extent its rendered virtually useless. And thats all nothing peculiar to Finland. If you look at say what they are doing in the Netherlands with their policy or what Phil Woolas is saying in the UK the cat is out of the bag. They screwed up and now they’re trying to rectify the situation with more chaos. Finland hasn’t made too big mistakes as of yet so we have the opportunity now to ensure the situation will not go to those extremes. We cannot afford such mistakes.

Besides which the official number you give is by citizenship, by language the number is somewhere around 9000. You need to read at least three statistics side by side, and even then you have a hard time figuring out ethnicities as classifying that is illegal.

#69 I don’t think so. With a downward spiral the “old parties” loose and more radical elements get more support. As we can see the SDP and Keskusta have “betrayed” their core voters, just like the demise of the SKDL…

#62 The most racist neo-facist party is SFP actually.

“No white men in the new multicultural finland.”

– Look at the picture on the left:

http://www.multiculturalfinland.com/homepage/

Council: Nordic Countries Need Common Immigration Policy

Nordic countries need to set up a common policy on immigrant issues, according to the Nordic Council. The council, made up of 100 parliamentarians from the five Nordic countries and three autonomous territories, met in Helsinki on Monday. Council members said Nordic governments must work together to improve immigration issues. The council added that current immigration and refugee policies vary considerably between the Nordic countries.

Considering the “true Finns” are neo-nazi racists – at least according to the stupid foreigners saying promoting products made in Finland and supporting the local economy is xenophobia and such, lets see what the current sitting multiculturalist and immigrant-friendly Minister of Foreign Trade and Development Aid, Paavo Väyrynen has to say:
http://www.kauppalehti.fi/5/i/talous/uutiset/etusivu/uutinen.jsp?oid=2008/10/15787&sort=false

“You have to pay foreign laborers the same wages as domestic ones, and immigration costs significant amounts to the government. So it should be considered producing cheaper offshore”.

So in other words, there is no “need for workers” in Finland – there is a need for “cheap exploitable labor”. Nice to see I was right all along.

If we’d believe Phil & Co, only foreigners know what is best for Finland. Go True Finns, the rest of you, keep crying.

#72 In Norway and Denmark there are powerful right-wing populist parties. Neither of them have gained high electorate support in the times of economic down fall. They have prospered when economy has done well. This means that people are more likely to vote populist parties when they and their neighbours have jobs. If the unemployment among immigrants is high when economy is hot, immigrants will be labeled as “lazy” etc.

If we are to see only a “minor” unemployment in Finland (~10%) then people won’t vote for the True Finns but if we hit recession like the one in the 90′s then the major parties are in BIG trouble.

#77 – If we’d believe Vanhanen &Co, only Keskustapuolue knows whats best for Finland

sam, have you ever noticed how much time you spend on here writing about how great you are?

I have.

Hank, I agree with what you said in #71.

But you can not compare the situation between Finland and the Netherlands. The only lesson that can be learned from what’s happened in NL is that a certain country can only support an X amount of refugees and unskilled other immigrants. I think the size of the labour market (next to that of the economy) should be an indicator.

What Vanhanen (but also people like Leif Fagernäs) are saying is that we need foreigners to do our jobs. They both fail to also say that they need to be skilled, preferably speaking Finnish (but English is a good second) and ready to be shipped back when not needed anymore.

And I do not worry about PS. That party can’t deliver when they would be governing.

I think the target market should definetely be Poland for example. They went to Iceland in hordes to do their stuff, but when things go sour poles go home because their country is not completely rundown either.

I would also like to note that the way things are in western countries is a reflection of our religious-social makeup and the way things are in most muslim countries is a result of theirs. And if we transport enough muslims here then we’ll be replaced by the birth-rate discrepency and then things here will be like they are in those muslim countries.

The tax paid by immigrants and the other benefits they bring to the economy more than covers the cost of having immigrants. If you are are against certain immigrants because you think they commit more crimes than native Finns then I think you should take a broader look at the crime statistics.
However the problem i have with the True Finns is that they are populist. What they do is tactical politics and not strategic long-term politics. They will pick up any issue to get votes.
If you vote for them you are being fooled into thinking that they will air your grievances – in fact if the political wind blows another way then they will drop those issues that you so cared about.
I think Kokoomus is like this as well. I’ve heard Katainen contradict himself on more than a number of occasions.
Well who really believes politicians today? The thing that I’m worried about is that a political party takes on the image of it’s supporters and with the True Finns I think that however moderate they seem today – they will in fact become reactionary.

#83.absolutely right, True Finns has to win now that the government could get more confidence from people and considerable touches. The winning parties are just for show, while the decision come from somewhere else! Not only in Finland this happens, but in all Europe.

i could also see Vanhanen the only honest one who telling the truth and keeps pushing the red button, that’s why many people don’t like him!

At the begining of this century, the immigration is the future of Europe, and that what so many people can’t swallow….The other cultural conflict has to be minimal.

There are times that I like Vanhanen. For example when (privately) he is doing his own thing more or less, not caring about what people say or what is political correct. Or when he stands next to some Russian leaders, making them appear as midgets. But not when he’s doing typical Kepu stuff (and to me that means not too much change and farmers first).

Take a good look at what PS wants in their party program and you will notice it’s a bunch of open doors plus some things that sound nice, but they’re not telling you who or what will pay for that! Let me tell you then: taxes will! And that makes them to be a left wing party.

Taxes to prop up the rural economy. They started as an agrarian party right?
Perus gets translated as ‘true’ but it can also mean ‘basic’. So I guess the ‘true’ part is not translated in a pejorative sense?

“Taxes to prop up the rural economy. They started as an agrarian party right?
Perus gets translated as ‘true’ but it can also mean ‘basic’. So I guess the ‘true’ part is not translated in a pejorative sense?”

I always felt the translation “True Finns” is a bit off. “Ordinary Finns” would be closer.

#80 DDDDDD Dave! Have you noticed how much you spend ypur time here telling everyone else how ypu are right and they are wrong?? I have DD.

#83 And exactly how much tax is paid by these “certain immigrants” with their dependency ratios that they benefit the society??? The average dependency ratio in the whole country is 2,2. The average of foreigners is 3,0. However if you start looking at “certain immigrants” the dependency ratios for Somalian and Iraqi citizens is 9,7 and 9,2, and the best with UK and Estonian citizens 1,9 and 2,2. So, by your maths how many UK and Estonian citizens do we need to lure to immigrate into the country to be able to benefit from their taxes to be able to support the one Somali or Iraqi citizen?

It is because of people who cannot calculate maths is whats wrong with this country. You show me the benefits with statistics to back them up.

#81 The only lesson that can be learned from what’s happened in NL is that a certain country can only support an X amount of refugees and unskilled other immigrants. I think the size of the labour market (next to that of the economy) should be an indicator.

Well thats the thing everyones been saying but thats xenophobia and racism to point out facts to stupid people. The troubles go away when you hide your head in the sand and open the borders so that there is enough exotic multitalents cleaning the minister’s toilets. Meanwhile all the little money that could benefit these people is directed to make-work trying to convince people that really it is a benefit to the society having multitalented toilet attendants instead of actually giving these people a chance to get their skills up to par to get a real job that would actually feed their family. As the newspaper wrote of the “certain” country refugees who entered the country on the family joining programmes 90% were illiterate. How long does it take for an illiterate person to become a productive member of a society that regards education as one of its highest national treasures? And how can you expect someone not being to able in their own language be able to learn another one? I wonder exactly what benefit Would Andy get out of employing a truckdriver who can’t read addresses? And the money needs to be put to teach me multiculturalism? Yeah, right…

What Vanhanen (but also people like Leif Fagernäs) are saying is that we need foreigners to do our jobs.

What Vanhanen should be doing is creating those jobs rather than blaming everyone else for his own shortcomings.

They both fail to also say that they need to be skilled, preferably speaking Finnish (but English is a good second) and ready to be shipped back when not needed anymore.

So what was this now. First “Finland needed people” and now “Finland needs gastarbeiters”… so the people doing work are the ones to leave while those who can’t get a job are the ones to stay? Brilliant economics I say only a few countries in Europe can achieve the same.

Hank, I’m pretty sure people know about the higher than average dependency ratios among some immigrant groups. Immigration has many kinds of effects, growing economy and populations levels (obviously) are one of them. I bet my sweet, sweet balls that for more than one politician immigration is, among other things, an insurance, as it were: a part of our external security. Like it or not, the way things are going Finland will be unable to provide itself a credible military defence without growing population (economy). When military equipment prices are running rampant, it is the small economies that suffer the most.

Another thing is our prestige and relative weight in the EU. We are a small country, and I can only hope we have as many representatives as possible. This, unfortunately, is largely dependent on population. Also, we have seen in the past that EU tends to single out countries it perceives having xenophobic development (see: Austria). Immigration is, therefore, an image issue as well.

Thirdly, non-immigration in countries with low birth rates will also have detrimental effects, as we have seen in Japan: society is unbale to take care of its elderly citizens neither by municipal nor family means. This has in the recent years led to increased suicide and, perhaps surprisingly, homicide rates. Old people have reportedly taken their own lives once they’ve found it impossible to cope with everyday life with no help. Also, in some cases children have killed their own parents in despair, after having to take care of them without being able to work. Keep in mind that at the moment Japan’s population pyramid is still relatively intact compared with 2050.

What we need is not less immigration, but stop pretending there are no problems: we need to demand more from the immigrants. Also, focusing all rental apartments to certain parts of towns is idiotic. Thirdly, we need immigrants of different ethnicities to high positions. In this respect I can see development, but we could do with more.

At least be original, sam the ham. All you seem to do is take someone’s words and — depending on whether you agree or not — mimic or mock them.

Just like they way you mimic Hank’s use of the word “whiner” or “stupid foreigner” or the way you slightly adjust things I say and come up with phrases that are supposed to be offensive to me.

You see, I might be self righteous or even a jerk to some, but you are an UNORIGINAL jerk.

There’s a difference.

#93 “Hank, I’m pretty sure people know about the higher than average dependency ratios among some immigrant groups.”

If people know and claim otherwise they are idiots, I give people the benefit of the doubt of being innocently stupid.

Also, we have seen in the past that EU tends to single out countries it perceives having xenophobic development (see: Austria). Immigration is, therefore, an image issue as well

The only image issue so far as I can see is that we’ve not made the same mistakes as everyone else and our laws are laxer than in any given comparable country. So the only image issue we have is that the EU is jealous and seel if I give a flying fuck what some stupid foreigners “think” about Finland – I happen to “know” about Finland. The less we get people here because of some “image” rather than cold hard facts the better. Nothing causes whining more than shattered illusions because we portray a “good image” rather than proper and correct knowlege.

What we need is not less immigration, but stop pretending there are no problems: we need to demand more from the immigrants.

Well its never been a quantity issue rather than quality issue. And its also an issue of the speed of how fast one gets through the system. And theres a lot of work right there, but we have right now a system that is overwhelmed – or have you been lately at the Malmi police? They still think things will just sort themselves and the problems disappear if they don’t do anything.

we need immigrants of different ethnicities to high positions.

So you are saying someone is *better* than someone else just because their skin color? Theres a word they call your kind with you know. Meanwhile I’ll go on evaluating people on their character and not their skin color.

# 93 society is unbale to take care of its elderly citizens neither by municipal nor family means.

Which is solved by bringing in multitalented culture enrichers with 9+ dependency ratios. Yes, I’ve heard that before. I still do not see any benefits. As anyone getting to the working age leaves as life here is shit. How about creating jobs so that people ca afford to support their families instead of killing themselves out of love? But no, lets just outsource everything and import a few nice ethnics to change the bedpans. I bet in 2020 they’ll be holding “nurse markets” for able-bodied servants just shipped in and if they are wicked they can be whipped. Thats what the country is moving towards – whatever happened to that equality thing?

“So you are saying someone is *better* than someone else just because their skin color?”

“Which is solved by bringing in multitalented culture enrichers with 9+ dependency ratios.”

All I can say is WTF. You’re obviously too angry to read my message as I intended so I’ll just stop here. But before that: all immigrants are not (as you pointed out yourself) from Somalia and secondly when I say “we need immigrants in high positions” it does not imply that they need to have an advantage in applying for jobs: it only means exactly what I said: “we need immigrants in high positions”. That’s all. Stop reading things I’ve never neither expressed nor implied.

Oh, even the Pravda acknowleges the facts for once:
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Great+ideological+disparity+among+True+Finns+in+Helsinki+region/1135240612824

The True Finns are about as “right wing populiatic” as the Swedish Peoples’ Party.

Hank… the dependence ratio you mentioned is interesting. But lets put this into perspective. There are less than 5000 Somalians registered as permanently living in Finland. There are over 19000 Estonians registered. So I think the taxes paid out by immigrants as a total do in fact cover the expenses of those immigrants who are more dependent.
The immigration is way way over-blown.
The question is why?

Because they make a disproportianate amount of complaining and crime their presence does not warrant. So why make an issue out of a non-issue? If you say I cannot make any comments on immigrations then the immigrants are free to shut up as well. No issues, no problems.

After all – then you have no reason to complain about Finnish taxation at all have you? Noting about the social fees and even less of the car tax or income tax of enterpreneurs. I am quite glad to see you are willing to support the needy in our society.

So what it was you wanted to whine about again? The “interesting” as in nonexistant “benefits” of immigration or your lament of how wicked the trucking business is in Finland? Make up your mind , I cannot advocate more than one devil at a time!

Sorry I don’t understand what you are saying. I must be stupid.

Please rest assured you are not the only one.
http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/3/10/28/f_braxvihapuhm_8ead9e7.jpg

As Finland is the most racist and xenophobic country in Europe, if not the whole World, we should embrace the models from more multicultural nations, like for example China that hosted the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

As Finland is the most racist and xenophobic country in Europe, if not the whole World, what can we do to make Finland to be more like China?

Actually, IIRC I think back in 1975 with the OSCE they gathered all the winos of Helsinki up and hauled them up to an island for the time.

So – please comment – which other countries Finland should follow in her quest? After all being the most racist and xenophobic country of Europe, if not the World, we cannot let be and do worse than others can we?

Well it’s interesting to see that you shifted the new blog posting you made to here as a reply in this thread. Much more appropriate I think.
Just to remind you that this blog is not the same as finlandforum. It’s not about personal remarks or agendas. So if you would like to make a personal remark to me then please do so over at finlandforum. I understand that there are lots of people saying silly things here but I for one have tried to keep to the issues and have a constructive debate. Well most of the time.
About this topic then it is obvious to me that Finland is not the most racist or xenophobic country in Europe. It’s very difficult to say which country is – Austria perhaps? How can we say. But if you think that there is no problem here with racism and xenophobia then you should look at the statistics and facts that show there is a problem. There are in my view not so many immigrants in Finland at all compared to the total size of the population and considering that just under half the immigrants are from E.U countries, a disproportionately large amount of people here are complaining about immigrants from Africa. The fact that there are less than 5000 Somalians registered as living in Finland makes me wonder how people can be so over-sensitive about this issue.

It didn’t warrant its own thread.

The question is you need to look at the statistics and facts and see what is the problem. I think that instead of claiming that the problem is that Finns are racist and xenophobic rather people would look why people have these kind of feelings against the certain immigrants. Analyse the causes… and then do something about the causes. Racism or xenophobia is the effect. Erasing the effect doesn’t erase the causes. Denying the underlying facts only gets people like the PS or even more vocal and aggressive groups to gain ground if the “powers that be” deny any sensible discussion and admit to the facts – such as their lack of immigration policy, their lack of succesful integration and letting the system be blatantly exploited is their own fault. The “official” attitude has been that any kind of implication the holy policies might be questionable is a thought crime… the PS just let the cat out of the bag and it shat in auntie Astrids hat.

Since everyone is talking about a problem, what is exactly the problem with “immigrants” in Finland? I would like to know as accurate as possible.

@106 Exactly. What is the problem. Why is it so much of an issue when the total immigrant population is 2% of the actual population in Finland. Added to this that way over half of the immigrant population is from the E.U or Russia then you wonder why it is that such a fuss is made in certain quarters over the amounts of immigrants in Finland.
Why is such a fuss made?
1. Crime. People think that immigrants are more likely to commit certain crimes.
2. Religious and cultural differences preventing integration.
3. Drain on welfare resources.
4. Competing for jobs.

But what are the facts?

1. Yes there are a disproportionately large number of certain types of crime committed by certain types of immigrants. What can be done? Improved education and improved policing. Future prospect? Good – second generation immigrants are no more likely to commit certain types of crimes than Finns – they are Finns. Counter argument = Finns are more likely to commit alcohol related crimes. one wonders what teh crime rate would be if alcohol wasn’t a factor.

2. Immigrants tend to hold onto their cultural and religious affiliations as is their right. both types of affiliations provide security and a way to deal with problems – a support mechanism and not a mechanism for extremism as some think. Immigrants don’t get integrated. This is a myth and an unreasonable expectation. They find ‘their place’ that’s all – no melting pot – just a tossed salad.

3. Immigrants at the moment are not a drain on welfare resources. In total the higher dependency of some groups is offset with the net input of taxation from other immigrants. They basically pay for themselves as there are low numbers of dependent immigrants.

4. The glass ceiling for educated and Finnish speaking immigrants is well in place. Immigrants on the whole do jobs that Finns basically don’t want to do and those educated immigrants are overwhelmingly unable to match work with level of qualifications. Immigrants are also more prone to changes in the workplace and negative economic environment.

In parts of the country where there are very very low immigrant populations the true Finns are running in 3rd place. In Uusimaa area they are increasing their over all standings. But they are a disparate bunch – some from the left and some from the right – some support the joining of Espoo, Vantaa and Helsinki and some do not. What seems to unite them is the sense that their grievances – about immigration and so on – are not being taken up by the main stream political parties.
They are a populist party that will do and say anything to get your vote – but they do have an agenda. They are basically atavistic – like a lot of people posting here – progress for them is like escaping to the past.
From my own point of view I don’t see why immigration is such a big issue – except of course by those who are escaping to the past and think that that is progress. Whatever the case they are making mountains out of molehills.
As for accusations of racism and xenophobia – then yes I think in some cases these accusations are warranted. In Hank’s case and Jaakeli’s case then they have said a number of times that they think foreigners are stupid and that certain types of immigrants are of no use and detrimental. They are making very generalized assumptions based on the color of a immigrants skin and they are defending those who blog against immigration and who hold extremely racist views.

@107 Here, here! Well said..and can the likes of Hank please piss-off posting on this once tolerant blog and bother to write-up his OWN blog.

I would like to give Hank the benefit of the doubt, because I believe that he started acting like an utter red neck after he got fed up with a number of foreigners on the Finland Forum that from day one start moaning about completely irrelevant stuff that Finland and Finns are to blame for. And they keep posting there, so Hank’s knee keeps jerkin. I also “know” the other Hank…

Hank does not hate foreigners, Hank does not even hate moaning foreigners. He only hates ignorant people. I read that from this quote “The less we get people here because of some “image” rather than cold hard facts the better. Nothing causes whining more than shattered illusions because we portray a “good image” rather than proper and correct knowlege.

I agree with what he says there. But Hank, no more avainlippu crap, please. Today I got a letter from Fortum, telling me happily about their plans to make record profits by squeezing more money form us. The envelope proudly carried the avainlippu…

#107 What seems to unite them is the sense that their grievances – about immigration and so on – are not being taken up by the main stream political parties.

And you have come to this conclusion after you did what? You apparently have read Harry Bogolomoff’s agenda nor Paavo Väyrynen’s blurb in Kauppalehti and Osmo Soininvaara’s blog? Now we have two options a) either you are claiming that Kokoomus and Keskusta are not “mainstream parties” (I might agree on the Greens) or then b) you cannot comprehend what you are reading and your claims are based on restricted sources.

Which both make your points seem kind of stupid, don’t you agree?

On point 4 there “educated immigrants are overwhelmingly unable to match work with level of qualifications.” there was just an article in the HS about this question. Which many points have been raised often. And there was one a few months back on how Finns with foreign qualifications have a hard time finding work. So I don’t think it is a problem with the people, its the problem with the “qualifications” and the lack of reference points as to those qualifications.

#108 You don’t seem to be so tolerant yourself. What gives? Can you not read fast? I wrote this slow just for you.

#109 I wonder how the heck they’ve achieved that, knowing our huge oilfields…

fish(y) oil :/

Naah, fish oil is an environmental hazard due to quicksilver and heavy metals.

#107 They are making very generalized assumptions based on the color of a immigrants skin

If I say someone is stupid it has nothing to do with their skin color. They could be sitting in the dark with a blind person and they would still be stupid. The only racist again in this discussion is you.

What I am defending is the right for people to have an educated opinion and also for the public to get their facts straight. I can say I oppose this force-feeding of multiculturalism and calling anyone having an adverse opinion on the (lack of) immigration policy as some sort of anti-immigrant and racist xenophobe. If there is no other way to have any kind of opinion then there needs to be made enough noise the emperor is running about bollock naked. I cannot help it that discussion has been stifled so that only the racist kooks then get their say as nobody else dares to open their mouth. And yes, they do exist like anywhere. And yes, they do have a right to their opinion just as the “open borders” kooks. if we have Communists then we can have Fascists. Both end of the spectrums as long as they keep to their marginal selves.

Back to your question of “why is it such a big issue” the thing is it is fortunately not a huge issue. But you look now what is going on in UK, Holland and Denmark do we want it to become then such an issue we have to take drastic measures. Just like with the graffiti, first you have a tag or two… then you have a few murals and graffitis…. then you have anything moving painted and then you have zero tolerance policy. Do you want to discuss the issue when theres a few tags or when you have to ban the sales of spray paint? If we cannot tackle the “certain immigrants” question when they number a few hundred, do you somehow imagine we can then tackle the problem if theres hundred times the amount??? After all you look at the amount of homeless and thats only a fractional amount and even we have a “welfare society” what have the programmes achieved?

If the PS have gotten to the point where they are now with a populist agenda, then what does that tell the “mainstream parties”? Maybe its time to look in the mirror instead of whining. And what comes to atavism I rather see it as any form of evolution is better that slow degeneration and stagnation.

#107 What can be done? Improved education and improved policing. Future prospect? Good

You’d think…
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Penge/2008/10/28/151117.htm
As it says you need to learn how to walk before running. And “finding your place” is easier if you have a good start. Denmark has pretty much similar issues with the language issue as well as the expectation levels – so it might be an idea to look there at what the successes have been.

#109… actually FF is amusing… of course theres the occasional whine. I rather got infuriated with the cesspit that is http://www.uranus.fi/en/discussion that is so full postings that make Seppo Lehto look like an intellectual.

Silenced through the boredom of having to read and reply to Hank’s posts.
Nothing left to say. Uncorks bottle of wine and lets go.

So in other words you cannot come up with any valid counterarguments? The sources aren’t boring except maybe that Danish Labor Union newspaper? Maybe you should read them though, its very easy to form quite imbecile opinions if you live in Platos Cave and only rely on HS and YLE brief mistranslations on domestic issues. I’m popping a beer and going to the sauna.

#97 Your need has been satisfied
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indians_Abroad/Indian_wins_provincial_election_in_Finland/articleshow/3655936.cms

And do you know, a “True Finn” immigrant got elected in Kotka
http://koti.mbnet.fi/fredi/

Suomalaiset rikolliset karkotettaan sittenkin välittömästi Uralille takaisin.