possible shooter ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmsGM1Z1SJs

http://keskustelu.plaza.fi/muropaketti/bbs/t549111,175

Now you can see that these are not isolated events. Gunshooting, homocides, suicides and alcoholism are inherent in Finnish culture. This is a very dark side of Finnish culture. You will find easily lonely, isolated, depressed Finns in this cold cutlure. Killing themselves or others are the only escapes of them. Don’t resort to weather anymore. Sweden and Norway don’t have these kind of disease. Culture is to blame. Finns have to open their doors to neighbors open their mind to outside world. Burrowing the head into the middle of forest is no cure.

Suomi becomes ameriKKKa….time to ban all guns in Finland..Protect
the polar bears!

Wow, supposedly this is the guy who did the shooting: http://www.youtube.com/user/Wumpscut86

http://www.kuvalauta.fi/b/src/122215887655.jpg
http://rs245.rapidshare.com/files/147625012/Massacre_in_Kauhajoki_Matti_Saari.zip
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:t-ttLB2oQLwJ:…;ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=fi
http://www.youtube.com/user/Wumpscut86

http://www.kuvalauta.fi/b/src/122215887655.jpg

http://rs245.rapidshare.com/files/147625012
/Massacre_in_Kauhajoki_Matti_Saari.zip

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:t-ttLB2oQLwJ:…;ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=fi

http://www.youtube.com/user/Wumpscut86

So what now ? Matti Vanhanen and Tarja Halonen are going to sweep this under the rug and give the killer some bullshit sentence so he can be out in about 10 years.

What a fucked up country.

We kids trying to derail trains for the fun of it http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Reports+of+vandalism+on+rail+lines+made+almost+daily/1135239630843

or defacing signs all over the capital city and calling that graffitti then destroying cars and shops

The the bullshit politicans look the other way. Of course the normal excuse is alcohol, and since that is somehow out of every Finns control that is somehow OK

I am ranting here but I am getting sick of young people throwing trash all over the place and breaking the glass on the bus stops and no one does shit or gives a shit about it.

But hey, Finland is the best place on Earth and everything here is perfect.

Sad day for Finland. We can only hope for some reform and real leadership form politicians

http://lyhytlinkki.net/?h69a8w36

Matti Vanhanen and Tarja Halonen are going to sweep this under the rug and give the killer some bullshit sentence so he can be out in about 10 years.

I heard that the killer was already given a two-year suspended sentence for today’s massacre. Oh, and Texas just sent a mentally retarded child to the electric chair for dealing marijuana.

Finland will not ban guns. Finns need guns to fight in case the country is occupied by Russians. Finns will blame some irrelguar minds and will make some counselor program for those and claim that Finland is the safest country in the world and will return back to normal again. Very simple solution.

Well we can’t claim we’re the least corrupt country any more, number 5 on the list.

Finland will not ban guns. Finns need guns to fight in case the country is occupied by Russians.

Heh, but Finns expect Americans to ban guns.

“Sweden and Norway don’t have these kind of disease. Culture is to blame. Finns have to open their doors to neighbors open their mind to outside world.”

That was quick. Yeah, like last year a student try to stab others with knife in Sweden. Or in Denmark you have metal detectors in many discos because people carry all kinds of weapons. And what about that recent violent demonstrations in Sweden? No, all is well in the Volkshelvete.

find the next one
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lovehetar
http://nz.youtube.com/user/NaturalSelector92
http://www.youtube.com/user/Eviltroika
http://www.youtube.com/user/suicidalmusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/Disillusioned89
all Finns

This is a terrible violent event…All news services in USA are reporting on this dastardly deed….SATANA PERKELE!

tim73, I am sure you know the difference between a knife and a gun. In every country there are mad guys. But the problem of Finland is that the madness is more systematic. You guys remember the Finns’ response when the Times reporter reported the truth about Tuusula massacre. I think he exactly pointed out doombed nature of Finnish countryside. All cultural and relational isolation. Only Alcohol, suicide and murder are cure to them.

Phil, Yes. One of NRA’s arguments is national security. The same is applied to Finland, Switzerland and Sweden. All small and independent “neutral” countries.

“So what now ? Matti Vanhanen and Tarja Halonen are going to sweep this under the rug and give the killer some bullshit sentence so he can be out in about 10 years.”

Well i don’t think he’ll survive. Besides if he survives he propably won’t live for long…

european: “Finland will not ban guns. Finns need guns to fight in case the country is occupied by Russians.”

No, we need guns to fight the moose, hare, bear and wolf populations. Banning private ownership of guns would not be a problem for Russki-fighting, because all the guns earmarked for that are (more-or-less) safely locked up at military garrisons.

But we have a strong and numerous hunting lobby, as the wilderness/frontier country we are. Therein lies the rub.

And Denmark, at least they know how to prevent disaster.

And I am sure now Palin, McCain and NRA will rejoice on this news.

Drakon. Yes, that’s the way you are told. How can any Finnish politician openly argue for the gun ownership against Russian occupation? That will be the end of their career and will make the disastrous backlash from Russia.
But Swiss are honest in it.

http://zip.4chan.org/k/src/1222170179925.jpg
http://bin.fi/kauhajoki/

Hei, that guy is not to blame, IT IS the bloody system, SOSSU (the social security) with all its ‘KORRUPT’ officials (only minding the seat under their ass) – for the country and its lovely people they care a damn !

I couldn’t agree more with European. That is exactly what is going to happen. “Finns will blame some irregular minds and will make some counselor program for those and claim that Finland is the safest country in the world and will return back to normal again.”

The worst reporter I’ve ever seen: Jarkko Sipila trying to explain things.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/09/23/bpr.finland.shooting.sipila.cnn

european, hunting is a strong tradition amongst the people in Finland and the government is not (or need not to be) prodding people into it. For various reasons, hunting in Finland is more alive as a pastime than in many other countries. It exists irrespective and prior to any current military policy, open or covert.

Defensively, it is useful to have a group of people used to shooting and hunting, constantly keeping their skills up. But in countries with the prevalence of hunting in the levels of Finland the government does not create that group by degree, out of thin air. The same applies to most of the other countries you have listed, though I’d presume the per capita numbers of active hunters in thise are the highest in Finland.

If the history of hunting and woodsmanship gives more options for military planning it is the cause, not the effect of those options. I am yet to hear of any defence plans, in Finland, for creating ad hoc- guerrilla bands armed with hunting rifles in the event of an invasion. Without military-grade small arms, which Finland has plenty, they would not stand a chance against regular Russian troops. Any sane Finnish military planner, I’d say, would plan for arming eventual guerilla troops from pre-concealed caches of assault rifles etc. weapons of Army regular issue.

I have this feeling that the police would have confiscated the gun if he had a foreign background. The darker skin color, the more likely. But hey, this guy is a Finn one of us, he can’t be up to anything even though he posted this “you’ll die next” video and probably matched all the traits and profile as his predecessor, Auvinen.

And the vultures move in….

“Any sane Finnish military planner, I’d say, would plan for arming eventual guerrilla troops from pre-concealed caches of assault rifles etc. weapons of Army regular issue.”

All plans can go awry in war. If Joe Finlander has a gun and some ammo in a closet, he doesn’t need a military planner, supply line, or anything else. All he needs is to be pissed off enough to use it.

This is why the US had some problems in Iraq for a short stretch. Guns are everywhere in Iraq. It does not matter how well trained or equipped a military is, if the people are against it and they have guns the military will have problems it cannot overcome by force.

Sooner or later the world will realize that some form of gun control needs to be imposed to stop crazy people from killing innocent people.
Unfortunately it will probably be later.
Meanwhile gun free places like Norway and the United States will pay the price.

Damn. The shooter died to his wounds. >:( It would have been much more interesting if he’d survived, but no.

the files located here and linked above:

http://rs245.rapidshare.com/files/147625012%20/Massacre_in_Kauhajoki_Matti_Saari.zip

Are those FROM the shooter – the jpeg files I mean?

Finland should send Michael Moore over here to do a documentary.

maksalaatikko:
“if the people are against it and they have guns the military will have problems it cannot overcome by force.”

Sure they can, but it tends to be bad PR in these PC days.

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/einsatzgruppen.html

Then again, if you only care about kicking ass and aren’t much for namby-pamby liberal human rights BS…

Considering the incident itself, I’m tempted to say many things but for the sake of good taste it is perhaps better to shut up. Puts things in perspective. I’m glad to have had a boring and frustrating day at work.

Sorry Frank, I forgot about unrestrained ruthlessness as means of control. Would the Russians do that in Finland? I know the Finns starved the Russians to death in the Winter War, but would the Russians look at it as an eye for and eye deal.

How did this shooter in get a handgun in Finland? I thought any gun that was not a hunting type gun was virtually impossible to purchase in Finland.

Oh yes, ban guns. thats the ticket. how many people died in car wrecks in 2008? I say ban cars, no ban tires, no ban , ban, ban..ban humans ? duhhh. ban ban ban. thats the answer. simple solutions for simple minds

#36, Cars are not for kill. And if you ban cars, you will see more deaths. The prosperity that our society enjoy nowadays vastly depend on the fast and effective transportation of goods.

Well, guns are for kills, animals or humans. And there are hundreds of civilized countries without guns. The solution is simple but very profound.

If you want to do hunting, you can do it with arrows and bows as your Finnish ancestors did just decades ago.

maksalaatikko:
“How did this shooter in get a handgun in Finland?”‘

By being an upright short-haired young man (probably with a reserve military rank, though Google wouldn’t tell) in Ostrobothnia.

“I thought any gun that was not a hunting type gun was virtually impossible to purchase in Finland.”

A common misconception, I’m sure.

Boys tell that he’d been sent back home on the milk train from the army.

Fred Phelps is at it again.
http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Pieni+amerikkalaislahko+iloitsee+Kauhajoen+koulusurmista/1135239670883?ref=rss

#39: Ach so. So not material to be issued a 7.62mm but a .22 will do fine.

Right to bear arms FTW!

What a bunch of sick fuckos commenting here. When something like this happens in Finland, the only possible reason is the rotten Finnish culture. What else could it be. I mean we have to keep in mind, besides this, that Finland was the orchestrator of the holocaust and all the other genocides in the world, Finland is known to invade a lot of sovereign countries and torturing civilians (we all know the human rights in Finland are just horrible) and how they always threaten their neighbouring countries and choose not to help them if they happen to be alone in war against a superpower. And this definitely could never happen 50 km across the border in Sweden, Norway or Russia. That’s impossible as we all know.

Much worse things has happened in the world and is still happening as we speak. Probably because of that dark Finnish culture. Hey lets nuke Finland!! Who’s with me?

When something like this happens in Finland, the only possible reason is the rotten Finnish culture

Good point. When something tragic like this happens, people quickly look for the fall guy.

When something wonderful happens in Finland, like Nokia, Gold Medals, and killing off the Russians, the Finns thank their strong Finnish culture. “Sisu!” and all that stuff.

So naturally, when shit goes down hill, people blame that same Finnish culture.

Size the darn pics down Philemon.

Our culture is violent for sure. In the old days it was mano i mano on the street, some gangsfights and such. When I came home from school crying because somebody punched me, my father asked was the guy older or bigger. If he wasn’t I was sent out again to take care of business. When I got note from the school because some fighting my father just smiled. When I got caught stealin, he went nuts. My mother always said that dogs lick their wounds together, referring fighting among friends. That was not nice but it had its good points. You learned very young how it hurts when you are on the receiving end, you also learned that you will never be invincible. There is always somebody who will whup your ass. Today these kids are brought up by in a system where everybody wins and everybody gets what they want. When they don’t in real life, they stab their ex girlfriends hundred times, strangle their babies, all kinds of shit, just because they can’t take no from nobody or in any situation. They just go nuts, just like they did when they were babies and wanted more candy or mamas tit. Screaming and kicking enough and they got it eventually. That is what they have learned. Well, not in my younger days. When grown ups said No, that was it. No meant No. No way around. We learned that this happens in life. These young kids have never learned that. What I have heard the same shit is happening in the army. Twentyfive years ago when I was doing my stint in the SA Int, we had no bullshit psychologies. We were told we are learning to kill the enemy. We had fights. We were punished. We went trough three freezing weeks in the forest without any decent shelter and nobody had any idea of complaining or whining. Nobody went to see a shrink. Guys went for evening leave and got hammered on booze. Then we had some bareknukcle bouts and next morning went on. Nobody went nuts. Nobody cried at night. We were never asked, we were told. Jump to a freezing lake. Run to that wall. Crawl trough the shit. Run till you drop or faint. Today guys are asked. Nicely. What the fuck? Stiffen their backbones, make them men again. Stop breeding these fuckin cowards who kill helpless girls in schools. Sure, we have a violent culture but it used to have a certain codes and practises. If you wanted to rumble all you had to do was walk to the nearest hot dog stand and say something to somebody and it was on. I know cases were even cops said to some young punks that if they beat the cops they will walk. When the kids did it, cops let them go. We even had an honour code. It was shameful to hit a smaller, younger guy or a girl or elderly. That was the old culture of violence. This new one is for scumbags and guys who kill anybody for nothing and brag about it in the Net and then tehy kill themselves because they can’t face the music. In the old days suicide was a private thing. Not any more. babies are hurting anybpdy because they FEEL bad. They are confused or some other shit. We were too, we felt bad, but we learned to live with it and go on. These sissies don’t. I blame this present culture of violence is results of modern nuturing and caring. When everybody is supposed to win, nobody does. Everybody looses and nobody takes care of the weak. Wake up!!

#42. If this is really an isolated event, then you can claim that. But look at the high homicide and suicide rate in Finland. Killing is not uncommon in Finland. And look at the Myrrmaki and Tuusula case. The incidents are happening too frequently if you consider the size of this country. You have to realize something is seriously wrong here.

Yes, yes, suicide rate just happens to be equal to european Belgium.

maksalaatikko: “All plans can go awry in war. If Joe Finlander has a gun and some ammo in a closet, he doesn’t need a military planner, supply line, or anything else. All he needs is to be pissed off enough to use it.

This is why the US had some problems in Iraq for a short stretch. Guns are everywhere in Iraq. It does not matter how well trained or equipped a military is, if the people are against it and they have guns the military will have problems it cannot overcome by force.”

Ah, but the insurgents in Iraq are not armed with single-shot hunting rifles or fowling shotguns. I believe the AK-47 and variants are pretty much the staple over there. As modern weapons of war go, the guns most prevalent in Finland are highly inadequate.

(BTW, did you know that during the last years of his rule Saddam Hussein orchestrated an effort to hide military weapons in several secret locations for an eventual resistance effort? Saddam’s military hierarchy might have collapsed, but it appears those arms have been put to some use during the last few years. This is documented, for example, by Seymour M. Hersh in his “Chain of Command”.)

“When something wonderful happens in Finland, like Nokia, Gold Medals, and killing off the Russians, the Finns thank their strong Finnish culture. “Sisu!” and all that stuff.”

I don’t agree really.

Sisu is nothing more than a word to describe a state of mind and it’s often used in a comical sense. Somebody has to walk home in a horrible winter storm and his mates will slap him on the back saying well he just has to make do with sisu..

Nokia and our recent wars were successful yes, but because of common sense. Finns have a lot of common sense, probably because country people get decent education here. Practical thinking meets academy so to speak. Nothing supernatural in this either, I’m sure Sweden is no different in this one.

That “sisu, sauna, terva, being depressed” is nothing more than a stereotype, it doesn’t exist in real life. Certain individuals would like to make a trademark out of it, sure, but the average men and women, vomiting at the street corners on Saturday nights, may disagree it’s that who we really are. Most Finns in general do have a great sense of humour, what these “europeans” say about our culture is 100% rubbish. My humble opinion is that those morons can go licking their elbows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUyFg9xoPKk

I’m going to remind few people here that we’re living in the 21st century. Phil makes a nice point few posts up.

I also think it’s not right to label a whole country and it’s people because of a troubled invidual.

“If this is really an isolated event, then you can claim that. But look at the high homicide and suicide rate in Finland. Killing is not uncommon in Finland. And look at the Myrrmaki and Tuusula case. The incidents are happening too frequently if you consider the size of this country. You have to realize something is seriously wrong here.”

Are you joking or what? Where exactly is killing uncommon? Yeah you found as many as 2!!! cases of mass killings in peacetime Finland. Shame on us! Yes there is something seriously wrong there, can you be kind enough to stay there and not come here at all?

#42: Why are you so angry? Finns need to lighten up. We’re a nation of very withdrawn and lonely people with low self esteem and a lot of suppressed anger. As pointed out in #46, the murder and suicide levels in Finland are _very_ high. People crack up when they have to live in an emotionally dead society. This shit will go on until we’re ready to admit to ourselves that there’s something rotten in Finland. Unfortunately I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

By the way, many finns were fond of smugly pointing out the apparent faults in the American culture/society because of their school shootings before last year. A quick reminder: the death toll from school shootings in Finland is now 1800 or so deaths in less than a year (figure adjusted for US population size–something the US bashers never do).

“Finland should send Michael Moore over here to do a documentary.”

Unfortunately we don’t have enough McDonald’s restaurants for Michael.

“Why are you so angry? Finns need to lighten up. We’re a nation of very withdrawn and lonely people with low self esteem and a lot of suppressed anger.”

I’m angry because some morons shoot that old stereotype rubbish all over the internet. It simply isn’t true. Finns have a great sense of humour, not lonely, no low self esteem, no suppressed anger. Pick another pub if that’s how you feel, but don’t spread lies just because you can’t find proper company.

“By the way, many finns were fond of smugly pointing out the apparent faults in the American culture/society because of their school shootings before last year. A quick reminder: the death toll from school shootings in Finland is now 1800 or so deaths in less than a year (figure adjusted for US population size–something the US bashers never do).”

Yes well I guess it’s OK in that case, if some Finns have made a comment about American culture/society in that context. You are correct.

Am I alone in finding the pictures offensive and sensationalist? Generally like the blog but might have been more impressed if you’d shown huge pictures of parents and close family totally distraught at the behaviour of this loser. Such publication seems to be in fulfillment of the gunman’s wet dreams.

K.

Oh look! There is something wrong with the Finnish culture again:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/09/23/swat-luther.html

#54. Nonsense. If you see Norwegians or Swedes living at the same latitude as Finns and also at very remote parts, you will see the huge difference between these bright people and Finns. They are much bright and casual and full of humors compared to gloomy faced Finns. I still remember the shock when I arrived at Helsinki and saw the streets filled with people who looked facing the last days of the world. Finns need to practice how to smile and how to greet and how to laugh and how to chat. I think the only cure of these disease are laughing, chatting and gossiping. I think the Finnish government should open obligatory three months courses for “how to laugh.”

“Such publication seems to be in fulfillment of the gunman’s wet dreams.”

Really, he’s dead.

Something tells me that he had other things on his mind as he lied there dying. Provided he was conscious after shooting himself.

Hmm. He managed to kill ten people using a .22 caliber pistol.

I don’t see this as uniquely Finnish, or American, or whatever. Twisting a tragedy like this into a bullhorn for cultural chauvanism is opportunistic at best, pathetic at worst. Instead: Western society, with its pressures to achieve and consume, combined with open access to guns and violent images, can create psychopaths like this. Isolation and loneliness, common in both America and Finland, can turn fantasy into terrible violence. And films feed the “glory” of the Trigger Finger Man.

I don’t know. I’m tired of it, the killing, the finger-pointing. Why can’t parents talk to their kids? Why don’t neighbors say hello? One of my students committed suicide this week and I’m in the States. Does it matter if someone’s Finnish or American, or whatever? Something terrible happened. The families deserve our empathy and people should be kind.

American culture gets blamed everytime something bad happens like this, so I’m not surprised to hear both Finns and foreigners point the finger at Finnish culture.

Personally I blame the rap music and the video games. ;-/

yeah, rap it must be DD. I think we must understand that this was one sick puppy here. Anyone who goes out to kill anybody must be sick someway. But still, this type of violence is a new thing here. Only reason I can figure out is that these kids have not learn how to cope with life. Dissapointments and failures are part of life. You take them as they come and learn from them and go on. These kids don’t. Like I said before, when their girlfriends break up, they stab them with hundred times or so etc. You read about this shit all time. One guy killed and chopped up his mother because she refused to give some money (for a beer or two) few years ago. There must be something wrong when young guys can’t cope with the life. Also one thing is good to remember. Before the economic crash of 1990′s we had something like 20 000 mental hospital places for patients. Now we have 8000. Do the math.

I agree with 27: I have this feeling that the police would have confiscated the gun if he had a foreign background.

About before there is difference between sadic hunters and guerrilla groups in remote case of military occupation.

Well, well, did we all fall asleep and woke in America? Sad news. As to culture and genetics – I don’t really think that they are important as factors. Though I’m sure that racism is fun. Society certainly does have an impact though. And of course we do have a kind of a gun culture, but guns really are overwhelmingly used for hunting and not for that bizarre violence worshipping that seems to exist in some sections of the US population. But something clearly has changed here as we have had both schools and firearms for ages and still two first massacres have happened within 10 months. Perhaps moving towards a more, hmm, American type mental care system after the early 90′s has a role here…

People forget one thing: These incidents are nothing but expanded suicides, “go out with guns blazing and take out as many as you can”. Internet provides the perfect tool for that too. These people think something along the lines: “my life has no meaning but at least I will be SOMEBODY when I die”.

Unfortunately, there are many net cults in which deranged individuals feed each other in their “madness”, regardless of nationality or where they live. Most likely there will be many more similar indicents around the world.

Did I hear correctly that most of the victims died due to burns/smoke? So it wasn’t the gun that killed these people, it was the homemade molitov cocktails he ignited?

“About before there is difference between sadic hunters and guerrilla groups in remote case of military occupation.”

What is the difference?

“If you see Norwegians or Swedes living at the same latitude as Finns and also at very remote parts, you will see the huge difference between these bright people and Finns.”

Unfortunately I do not.

“American culture gets blamed everytime something bad happens like this, so I’m not surprised to hear both Finns and foreigners point the finger at Finnish culture.”

Yes but this isn’t Finnish or even American culture. This is the internet culture, which is global.

“Did I hear correctly that most of the victims died due to burns/smoke?”

Most news sites write the victims were shot.

Worse bummer by the Finnish police than the main stream Finnish media has let us know. It’s hard to understand how the police could have overlooked those videos. I kind of got the idea that they had only seen some of the more neutral video clips, but also the “You will die next”-clip seems to have been among the ones reported to the police.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2008/09/23/shubert.finland.shooter.video.cnn

I blame the cheese on the moon, yep. that old cheese. damn that nasty cheese..anyways boo f_kin hoo

Finn on post #56 that kidnapping took place in my hometown in Canada and yes that problem is more than likely cultural, Regina has a huge poverty problem among natives and whites alike, the worst inner city in the country and a huge housing problem. Children from lower and middle class families are generally on their own and parents are relying on daycare and gov’t systems to raise their children. Marginilization in that city is a huge problem. Sounds alot like Finland doesn’t it. I’ve lived here for 3 years and I would definately say, Finns being isolated is normal here. Neighbors don’t speak to each other, people don’t talk. Society does need to open up, how could someone from this guys family or any of his friends not have an idea of what he had posted on the net beforehand, and talked to him about it. People seem awfully depressed here yet from what I can see life is easy and natural, nothing to be depressed about. This shooting is a tragedy and minor things need to change in Finnish society to help prevent it in the future. Changing gun laws may help a bit but it is not a solution. The man could have just as easily walked in with a hunting rifle.

Dear Phil,

Would you be so kind as to remove the images of Matti Saari or at least make them a lot smaller. It really is very disturbing to stare at them the very first thing when opening the webpage.

We’ve seen them plenty of times already… What’s the point really?

My Finnish wife was talking about all the strange men that she went to school with that none of the women would talk to and how strange they were. And how any one of them could have turned into a raving murderous maniac. Now I hear this morning that 8 of the ten victims were women. What part does female cruelty play into all of these men going berserk? And yes women can be extremely cruel. Their tonges can be a sharp as a knife. I am not offering excuses, just pointing out a possible contributing factor to what makes these young men snap.

“in my hometown in Canada and yes that problem is more than likely cultural” + “Sounds alot like Finland doesn’t it.”

Got it. Saskatchewan, Canada = Finland.

Funny I don’t hear anybody wanting to change Scottish or German cultures even though they had their shootings way before Finland did.

But, if you seriously think Finnish culture should be different then get on with it and fix it.

Before you make any changes however, I feel I have the responsibility to point out that the areas with lots of immigrants, which I think do represent another culture, have more violence than the areas with native population. The relatively high percentage of crimes committed by immigrants, especially the raping of Finnish women, is probably irrelevant as well.

So make sure you think twice before changing anything. You may now begin your work, Godspeed.

What is wrong with American jihadis..
http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Pieni+amerikkalaislahko+iloitsee+Kauhajoen+koulusurmista/1135239670883

these people have no shame.

Finn, do you happen to have statistical count on the number of serious crimes (Rapes etc) commited by foreigners in Finland. Or you just happen to be one of those who pull out figures from their arse to justify their perverted nazi point of views. So convinient to blame everything on foreigners. isn’it?

36 % of rapes in Helsinki are done by foreigners.

#73: Why would you care? The statistics are compiled by EVIL RACIST FINNS.

As for your name, Lynyrd Skynyrd said it best:

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/l/lynyrd+skynyrd/poison+whiskey_20086148.html

And please, FFS Phil & others, fix the database already!

Where does Finland get all these pathetic, cowardly, hate-filled young men who go and shoot unarmed people who have no way of escaping and then shoot themselves. What kind of families and homes do they come from? I don’t get it. I wonder how many more there are just waiting for the opportunity. 2 in less than one year – statistically that is horrendous in relation to the population.

Absolutely @77 .The concern is how many more times will this happen? I think it will happen again although hope against hope that it wont.
But lets not play amateur sociologists here. The thing we can do and we should do NOW is ban gun ownership. It’s quite simple and I hate to think how many people in the U.K would be killed if angst ridden misanthropic teens and young people were allowed to own guns.
If they want to shoot guns then go to a gun club – shoot on a shooting range but don’t make it legal to own one.
One chief Finnish cop said to a BBC reporter ”what can we do? What can we do?” The BBC reporter replied ‘start with banning guns”. It seems so sensible and SO SO obvious.
If there is something in Finnish culture that needs addressing it is why gun ownership hasn’t been outlawed already.
On a more philosophical level there is the question of how we are able to take pleasure from life. It’s a big question for us Nordics. I hope that some practical measures can be taken in this regards. I feel that we are mono-cultural and we need a more balanced view. There is an arrogance in declaring humanity to be worthless – how could we know about humanity to make any claims about it? We need to have more sensitivity to the complexity of life and to the complexity of ourselves’ and others emotions and feelings.

#70: One of the consequences of breaking Jante Law is not getting any. Naturally, this can be a source of frustration for a young man.

“Finn, do you happen to have statistical count on the number of serious crimes (Rapes etc) committed by foreigners in Finland. Or you just happen to be one of those who pull out figures from their arse to justify their perverted nazi point of views. So convinient to blame everything on foreigners. isn’it?”

Those statistics are available for everyone, learn how to Google. I did not pull any figures, just mentioned about the high percentage. Ah, the nazi card. Just as I was thinking why hasn’t anyone pulled the nazi card yet. Speaking of perverted nazi point of views… so convenient to blame everything on the Finnish culture, isn’t it?

@75 So the other 64% of the rapes are done by Finns… great!

What’s the other dumb comment I saw… oh yeah it is not the Finnish society to blame but the internet… Where you hear that. oh yes… I remember… Isn’t that what you dumbass president was telling BBC the day after ?

Opps I forget the internet is only available to Finland and the US and the rest of the middle east where wackos go around shooting each other

It seems some of us don’t see this as a tragic event at all, only as a great excuse to unload personal antipathies concerning Finland.

Just tell me one thing, why should our culture be anything other than it is? Because you don’t like it? Well what if I like it as it is? Then what? War??

I can see we have some real philosophers here. All I can think after reading that crap is that the stupidity of people knows no bounds. You can now safely return to your TV sets and continue watching Big Brother. At least Pekka-Eric could withstand all the Big Brother fuzz till November.

“So the other 64% of the rapes are done by Finns… great!”

36% is a very high number considering there’s not so many immigrants in Finland. This subject has also been covered by different TV programs.

“What’s the other dumb comment I saw… oh yeah it is not the Finnish society to blame but the internet… Where you hear that. oh yes… I remember… Isn’t that what you dumbass president was telling BBC the day after ?”

I really don’t know how to reply to something like that. You have at least forgotten to meet your doctor, that is for sure.

In Helsinki it’s 46%

Foreigners blaming finnish culture? Americans and canadians aswell? the hypocrisy has no limits I see… take a long hard look at all the serial killers /mass murderers in the USA, Canada and England and then come back and say All finns are strange due to 2 psychotic kids.

Finland toss these mutts out of your nation, they do more harm than good… trust me, look at Sweden… its collpasing.

Like I said before, these whining fucks are the result of the new and happy nursing system created in 60′s and 70′s. All these smuckos are product of the nursing home system. All are rised by women, women take care of them in nursing homes, schools and so on, and this is the result. Women don’t allow the kids vent their natural aggressions when they are little kids and could learn to control those emotions or get beaten few times. I bet this fucker who did the shooting had not one real fight in his sad life. All he did was feel bullied and that drove him to this? C’mon. If I would’ve gone nuts because I was bullied at school I would have killed most finns by now. Instead I did fight and learned some lessons about life and how to handle it. These sorry ass whining shitheads learn that nothing is their fault and it is everybody elses fault. When something is wrong in their life, it somebody elses fault. They sit alone in a room and chat with samekind of sorry ass fucks and tell how the world is so wrong to each other. That is what they have learned. It was not your fault when you did kill the bird, broke that window, did this or that, they are told from the moment they step in to nursing home. Steel them up I say. Teach some responsibility. If you act like a fuck you get fucked in this life. If you don’t like it learn to act differently and go out, get friends, do something. I meet these assholes every day, young guys who think the world is for them and who get seriously disturbed when they find out it isn’t. Where they did come from?

Would you be so kind as to remove the images of Matti Saari

Done.

36% is a very high number considering there’s not so many immigrants in Finland.

Out of that 36%, I’m responsible for like half (after tonight, make it 60%). Oooops, my bad.

Hey, I’m willing to bet that “Date rape” isn’t part of those “rape” statistics.

And please, FFS Phil & others, fix the database already!

Yeah, I’m about to put a gun to my head, or my server. I’m not a techie guy and my tech support is fucking worthless, so I’m thinking I may need to switch servers.

…unless anyone else has a clue as to what the problem is? MySQL seems to die, then live, then die…all on its own.

@90 I suggest a You Tube video with you and a gun pointed at your server voicing your disgust with MySQL

“these whining fucks are the result of the new and happy nursing system created in 60’s and 70’s.” + “When something is wrong in their life, it somebody elses fault.”

First you say it’s the society that created them, after a few sentences you blame them for blaming the society? I might be wrong but isn’t that a bit controversial?

Besides that is not true. These kids were born in the late 80s when we had our conservative, übercapitalistic era and raised during the economic depression of early 90s.

72. Saskatchewan in Canada is alot like Finland very small population, 1 million and 5 times the space ie total isolation. Very Socialist Govt until the past 3 years and a large amount of society that believes in Government taking care of them instead of being responsible for themselves. I’m not saying there is alot wrong with Finnish culture, just Finnish people could be more open, neighbors could be more open to each other etc.. This in general is a suicide, suicide is a problem here, it could be seen as cultural as it seems to be accepted. There is nothing wrong with asking for help, yet not asking for help here is also normal. There is many good things about Finland, Canada, U.S, Sweden, U.K. etc. and yes all the countries have their problems, Whacko’s exist everywhere, should Finland as a country start to do something now or wait another 10 months, as this man is not the only one that glorified the Jokela killer. That’s not hard to see by just doing a few small net searches. Suicide has always seemed to be a private thing here, but 2 nuts have shown now there is another way to go out. Other young men will follow their lead if something is not done.

“Hey, I’m willing to bet that “Date rape” isn’t part of those “rape” statistics.”

For how much? I’m willing to take that bet.

#74
Young Men’s Multicultural Life Course and Criminality
http://www.optula.om.fi/uploads/hm290jggfjciwba.pdf

And a nice one
DELINQUENT BEHAVIOUR IN NORDIC CAPITAL CITIES
http://www.optula.om.fi/uploads/k5kto3p8v485my.pdf

Well, I agree with sam the ham. Here are a couple of articles, worth reading.

http://www.fredoneverything.net/Boy%20Crisis.shtml
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Diversity.shtml

Ban the guns – ban the sale of guns. Simple solution. If Finland has any cultural hang-ups it’s the holding on to the idea that this is a country of hunters.
If kids in the U.K were allowed to own guns there would be a bloodbath. So BAN gun ownership before more people get killed and Finland’s reputation goes to shit.
I mean forget about expensive ‘Brand Finland’ when all the international news outlets are talking about the massacre.
SO BAN GUNS

http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id102629.html

Here we go, for a small country, Finland surely has a pretty high percentage of whacked out kids…

This is not normal, and this is a representation of a pretty fucked up society

99 I agree. It’s been fucked up by those do good social mamas who mumble incohorently and understand everyone. I bet that after few weeks this shooter is also a victim just like the fucker in Jokela was. But how about our genious primeminister? This is not a political or social thing but a new kind of criminality. Hi ho silver! And the first cops at the shooting site? They ran away. The firefighters should have turned their hoses on max and shoot that little runt all over the place ( the guy was 60kg’s) and kick his ass. But they did not. What the fuck is going on in this land of mine when cops run instead of shooting the bad guy down? What the fuck is going on when grown ups don’t put the lid on kids? We have turned on a nations of pussies, whimps and whiners. Just like these schoolkillers, our cops are gutless cowards. They don’t want responsibility, politicians don’t want it, social workers don’t, parents don’t, these assholes killers don’t… What the fuck is going on here?

Phil:

Is there a firewall between the web and DB servers? They have the tendency to chop up connections. Anyway, I’d recommend getting rid of your crappy hosting provider, buying your own server – on one of your trips to tissue currency land, perhaps – and putting it in a server hotel. At least that way you’d only have yourself to blame.

#91: You will be kill -9:d next!

vigilante:
“This is not normal, and this is a representation of a pretty fucked up society”

True, true. Then again, I’d like to see a non-fucked up society.

has ahnyone done the SQL fix run?

#102…on the planet MUNIMULA they have no fucked up society!

was it not planet MUNASUUSSA

One more comment about this. What the fuck the first cops on the scene did? They ran away, according to the news media. I mean, is it not their job to stop criminals? Particulary dangerous criminals, like mass murderers? I know that cops have bulletproof vests in their cars, so what was the excuse now? Regrouping? Naah, same shit I was talking about earlier. They got scared and waited for bigger boys and mean while this lunatic was able to lit up the fires around the school for about an hour or so. What is going on in this country?

Westboro Baptist Church claims that it is going to protest all nine (or more) funerals, but I suspect that it’s just another case where the WBC losers put out a press release for the lulz in trolling the rest of the world, but then the filthy liars don’t actually show up since they probably can’t afford the airfare (and even if they could, I suspect they might have trouble getting past customs at the airport).

http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/fliers/20080923_nine-dead-finland-shooting.pdf

I don’t think they actually showed up for the funerals from the Jokela shootings last year even though they claimed they would.

I think they might have a problem of paying for their hospital bills as I don’t think insurance covers suicide attempts.

YLE reports that this might be the tip of the iceberg. It’s scary out there beyond Keha 3.

Maybe our society is in recession even though our economy isn’t. Social recession.

Pentti Saarikoski said ‘Mitä tapahtuu todella’ – who is asking this kind of question now? Which young person is interested in ‘society’ and where it’s going? If there are these young people then they should make their voices heard – shout loud ‘mitä tapahtuu todella’

#109 It’s scary out there beyond Keha 3.

If you read the news you read of churchburnings, toppling of tombstones, suicides… the youth have been showing symptoms for a long time. And all the politicians say is “we need more workers” when all they can see is unemployment. Go figure.

“One more comment about this. What the fuck the first cops on the scene did? They ran away, according to the news media. I mean, is it not their job to stop criminals? Particulary dangerous criminals, like mass murderers? I know that cops have bulletproof vests in their cars, so what was the excuse now?”
AND:
“What the fuck is going on in this land of mine when cops run instead of shooting the bad guy down? What the fuck is going on when grown ups don’t put the lid on kids? We have turned on a nations of pussies, whimps and whiners. Just like these schoolkillers, our cops are gutless cowards. They don’t want responsibility, politicians don’t want it, social workers don’t, parents don’t, these assholes killers don’t… What the fuck is going on here?”

Perhaps it is that Finnish Society has indoctrinated everyone that it is not acceptable to fight back in self defense. One of the news reports stated that most of those who died cowered down on the floor and basically waited to die. I think lack of familiarity of guns also contributed to the high number of deaths. It was a .22 and there were ten of them against him. At the risk of second guessing, those who ran, lived, or at least had a better chance of living.

I had talked with a cab driver during one visit. He told me how the state fined him for punching a customer who tried to rob him.

“should Finland as a country start to do something now or wait another 10 months”

I’m afraid people won’t do anything until Big Brother and Idols are done.

Yes, hear hear! Fred Fry… By all means this shooting is just one more example of there not being enough firearm education and the fact that there is clearly not enough violence in Finland.

We know how well it has worked in the US — the rest of the world should obviously follow suit.

Yep Fred Fry, and like I said: mark my words, this killer is turned as victim sooner or later. Actually it is already happening. Byhyhyyy, bullies tormented him at school. What the fuck? This bastard was a nut who killed ten people. It was his fault, He is the one who decided to kill. And two months in the army? When I was in the army one guy busted a jaw from one of the officers. He went for military base jail for a month. Another threw chairs trough the barrack windows. He went to jail too. These lock up days were added to their service time. Nobody went home beause they coud not take it or felt bullied. And for that cab driver, friend of mine defended himself against some muggers couple of years ago and got suspended sentence because he broke the nose and arm of guy who attacked him with a knife. Go figure! But this “nobody’s fault” thinkin has been demonstrated on those child rape cases. Sometimes they don’t even go to jail!!! I mean this is seriously fucked up society now a days.

sam the ham:
“…Nobody went home beause they coud not take it or felt bullied…”

And let me guess – you skied 50 km to school every day every winter and summer?

While I agree that one should not be prosecuted for self-defence, I do not see the connection to the shootings with such legislation.

It is more of a mental health issue and a parenting issue (perhaps the two intertwine).

There is a real stigma to getting mental health care here, and given Finland’s (for example) alcohol problem, it seems to be endemic to the idea here that asking for help is seen as weakness.

“And let me guess – you skied 50 km to school every day every winter and summer?”

Good one. There’s nothing funnier than some mid-aged guy telling heroic stories about the good old days, especially after a few pints. My personal record is around 30 minutes with a straight face.

Seriously, it’s not like these guys didn’t exist in the past, it’s just that nowadays they get kicked out of the army. We can’t afford having them there messing things up in a real operation. That’s why we have the A,B,C,D class levels for our men and women in service. A few men with A papers is far better than a hundred guys with D papers.

But being honest I had no idea the gun laws were that loose, I mean did this guy have D papers but still got a licensed handgun? That is unbelievable if that’s the case. Now they’re talking about whether the Defence Forces and Police should share a database concerning the gun licensing.. I thought that was obvious. You see this is the problem with representative democracy, men and women often having control over subjects they know absolutely nothing about. How long would a company be running, based on that idea, I ask you.

Actually I think it’s A,B,C,E not D. Whatever, they should grant a firearm license only for those with A or B papers. Now that I thought about it, I actually got a friend who has plenty of firearms, including handguns, but has D papers.

E papers

Finn:
“You see this is the problem with representative democracy, men and women often having control over subjects they know absolutely nothing about. How long would a company be running, based on that idea, I ask you.”

If you look at Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, 85 and 158 years, respectively.

And then there was Barings Bank with 233 years.

“If you look at Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, 85 and 158 years, respectively. And then there was Barings Bank with 233 years.”

No wonder the British Empire collapsed. America next. Be well =)

#120
A all service
B restricted service
C freed from service during peacetime
D freed from service
E to be re-evaluated in 1-3 years

It seems the Police has a right to gain information from the Defence Forces when granting a firearm license. Turns out the Police often doesn’t care about the military service records, such as the service class. Everything in this case points towards incompetent police work. Probably so in the previous Pekka-Eric case. Something tells me the police organization needs fresh air so to speak. Eyes open now lads.

“A all service
B restricted service
C freed from service during peacetime
D freed from service
E to be re-evaluated in 1-3 years”

I think C is the re-evaluating class. Either way, a firearm license should be granted for A or B class only. That should be a law and not based upon police officer’s opinion.

The problem is that the police does not have access to the correct database rows. Queries such as SELECT * FROM * yield far too many results.

“The problem is that the police does not have access to the correct database rows. Queries such as SELECT * FROM * yield far too many results.”

No granting a license until a service class A/B is confirmed. Simple as that. For some reason I had thought getting a firearm license requires a completed military service. How silly of me. This is bollocks quite frankly.

“By all means this shooting is just one more example of there not being enough firearm education and the fact that there is clearly not enough violence in Finland.”
– Fighting back would have probably REDUCED the level of violence. In this case the violence was all one-sided. It was his last act of violence, shooting himself in the head, that ended this tragedy.

“We know how well it has worked in the US — the rest of the world should obviously follow suit.”
– Well, you don’t see Americans going on shooting sprees with .22 pistols. Not only that, but most areas of the US are less violent than most of Finland. the ares of the US that are violent, are the ares where guns are banned and as it so happens, punishment for crimes is lax. See Philadelphia, where two policemen have died this year at the hands of criminals who have been arrested a number of times in the past only to have the prosecutors to drop the charges.

Banning the guns is not going to stop these attacks. Or does the Government plan on banning axes, knives, frying pans, and bombs? Oh wait, bombs are already illegal, but that didn’t stop the Myyrmanni mall bombing that killed 6 people and the bomber as well.

#129 For some reason I had thought getting a firearm license requires a completed military service.

You can become a police officer without military service these days.

#130:

Freedom Fry! Freedom Fry! Freedom Fry! Freedom Fry!

Yeeeeeee-hawwwwwwww!

Just heard from my Finnish wife that her parents switched off the radio – won’t watch the news.

Finnish denial.

Strategy for dealing with bad things concerning Finland – ignore. Pretend that they don’t exist.

Finns don’t like debating, they’ll only boast about their country’s so-called strengths.

Finns = stick your fingers in you ears and live in la, la land.

And that’s why things in Finland will NEVER change.

Finland’s, unlike anywhere else in the world, is already perfect you see.

If nothing else this shooting is the direct responsibility of the media orgasming over the Jokela killings. Media attention feeds these egotistical attention whores.

Heh heh heh. Mid aged guy talkin about good old days. Yeah, that’s right but without alcohol. See, I never drank and never will because I don’t have to. Nobody can’t make me drink or do drugs. Skiing? Only thirty kilometers at the time in the army, my friend, and never since or before. Catch my drift? And better few class A commandoes than everybody, huh? Like US Army? Georgian special forces? Get it?The truth is that if we ever need the army, we better have as many guys as possible because the other guy has plenty. If you understand anything? What fuckin real operations you have had, I might ask, in the Finland Army recently? None. That’s why you guys get away so much. There is only one real operation for our military and that is in the east of our national border for now. If it chooses to come over, that will be the real fuckin operation for you too. No amount of ropes and black uniforms, spooking visors and kevlar helmets will stop them. It will be finnish men, like you and me. The thing is that you younger guys don’t have balls anymore. It is all about the pose and right looks. Like cops today, all pose but nothing else. I remember one football match between Finland and England right after the Heysel disaster back in the 80′s. The same guys who caused the havoc there came over here to rumble and expected finns to be scared. Our cops had blue painted baseball bats visible at the stadium and outside when ever these feared english hooligans tried anything, cops took them off from the streets. One incident was shown in the tv news, where ONE (1) finnish cop of Reinikainen style knocked one hooligan down with bare hands and scared the rest away front of a jeering crowd. Today cops would run and call the army special forces and Karhu and Nato and EU and of course Freeridin Franklin and Finn to take care fo the business. This is the atmosphere where these school killers are born. And if you have read the weekend papers, it was not his fault at all. After all, he was bullied at school. Somebody even spitted in his face, dear me. What the fuck??? Again DD

I could too use a couple of words too about the no-good youngsters of today, but I see there are already more merited descriptions than I could do. Although I’m not certain, whether we really can take high ground on this.

Imagine, if Suosikki had published a series of articles about “this new, cool high school shooting fashion, straight from the USA” with superturbomega posters in the 70′s (given that there would have been high school shootings back then). I’m not at all certain they wouldn’t have gained at least some followers. Would our strong, disciplined, 70′s character, forged by the oak leaf generation teachers, really pass the test any better? For comparison, is there any truth about the Suosikki inspired teddies beating the scheisse out of some Pasila bums?

OK, this as an example is a way off the wall, but I’m trying to construct a hypothetical 70′s equivalent of a modern internet hate jerk-off ring resonating the participants perversions up to the point someone becomes so delusional he ends up doing Auvinen&Saari.

I suspect the people are the same, only fashions change. They didn’t shoot at school in the 70′s, but some junior officer in defense forces or frontier guard could remove his superior and even a few colleagues from the provision strength just because the former denied his promotion from year to year or made his working life otherwise a hell. A silly reason for a shooting spree looking outside in but probably very well-resonating and only subcritically damped one, if observed behind the barracks walls.

The police certainly seems less trigger-happy since the times officer Tulikoura tried to solve the Mikkeli hostage situation and…what was this troublemaker they shot with a shotgun at close range in the 90′s?. Maybe comissioner Olli Urponen should reconsider his retirement and do once more one for the fatherland.

What comes to Kauhajoki, what a waste…what a damned waste…

Let us get back in focus here.I think that loneliness and depression had a lot to do with the young man’s actions. There is no denying that Finland is a place filled with depressed people! IT IS A FACT!

The attitudes of Finnish people have to change. Is it so difficult to say hello to someone?
Is it so difficult to smile?
Is it so difficult to engage in small talk with your neighbour?
In other parts of the world, peole smile, and laugh , and engage freely in conversation. And guess what?? their suicide rate is lower tthan that of Finland.

People here in this country always look so sad and doomed, yet they claim that this is a wealty country. To tell you the truyth, I rather be in a poor country, where people are happy!!

#137, Yes. It is so difficult. Probably you are raised in such a “happy” culture. But Finnish culture(or genes) are so different. Small talks? Finns need to prepare and practice hours and sweat just to say “How are you?” to their neighbors. You have to understand it. Anyway with this drawback, there are positive points. When it’s so difficult to say “hello” to their neighbors, how can they say lies? So in general Finns don’t cheat and are strict to their words. So positive things go together with negative things. Well, if Finns change their culture to be more casual then I guess there will be more casual liars in Finland.

BTW, the last point. Finland is not a weathy country. Actually the poorest country in the Europe, but anyway again that is not the fault of Finns. They are hard working people, and I think Finland will be richer sooner or later.

“Actually the poorest country in the Europe, but anyway again that is not the fault of Finns. They are hard working people, and I think Finland will be richer sooner or later.”

Obvious troll is obvious.

I don’t agree with the notion that Finland should change its culture. It makes the world interesting when different countries have different cultures. I do believe there are some problems arising in the society and these new shooting problems, are a new phenomenon not arising from the Culture that Finland has had for decades but new ideas coming from other continents via globalization. Varga – UK

#140.No, it’s about the invisible culture.
Take also “Teräsbetoni “at Eurovision song contest, into consideration…Doctrine of wars still dominates!

Actually there was very different youth culture back in the 70′s when I was young. Teddyboys were not beating up Pasila bums, they were trying to beat up punks, rockers were trying to beat up punks, teddyboys and hippies, and hooligans were happy just to beat anyone. The thing is that back then there were big groups of youths. Maybe you had no real friends but you could easily know thirty kids by name. Where I grew up there was a group of dozens of kids every weekend hanging around together. Once we took a head count and there was more than hundred boys and let me tell you, that made us feel great. Back then you had a place. You were someone and belonged. Maybe you were a shy kid but you could still be a punk rocker or greaser, and that made you part of something. If you were the class nerd you were still somebody. You were The Class Nerd. You might be bullied but you were not alone if you made any effort at all. We had clubs, bands, sports and gangs. Now a days these smuckos sit at home and chat with people whom they don’t know at all and fantazise about life. That can’t be right. And comment on this small talk shit. I know lot of finns who can talk birds from the trees if they want. I know finns who have talked so much that yanks have said enough. And if you ever happened to be around carelian women, you know finns can talk a lot and whole lotta bull. So that is just one stereotype, nothing else.

is this site finally back up for good ?

“Just heard from my Finnish wife that her parents switched off the radio – won’t watch the news.

Finnish denial. Strategy for dealing with bad things concerning Finland – ignore. Pretend that they don’t exist.Finns don’t like debating, they’ll only boast about their country’s so-called strengths.”

You must be a friggin Finnish culture expert! We discuss this a lot, you moron. Just another angloidiot, probably Canadian. You would not last 15 minutes in debate with Finns. All you would say pretty soon, “I’ll get back to you”, “I understand you” or “You have an interesting point there” or other anglo bullshit.

Just concentrate on your economic Armageddon coming very near you and soon.

tim73: “Just concentrate on your economic Armageddon coming very near you and soon.”

This has to be the dumbest comment on FFT this year. Its kind of like laughing because the floors below you in your building are on fire. If the US has an economic meltdown, Finns better stock up on food and fuel because the credit system that pays for the importation of all these things will break and imports to Finland will dry up. Expect to go hungry…

Freddie Freddie, don’t you know us yet? We laugh at depression. Sure, some of us will kille again, but laughing at things like economical depression or melt down, or what ever, is our way to deal with it. We call it Black humour for some reason. Besides, it is the US that has every reason to worry. If foreign goverments pull the plug US goverment goes bankcrupt in months. Litterally. That is the achievement of the Bush goverment which the americans chose for two terms. And now they are going to pay for it, litterally. Sorry about that, but we won’t lose our laughs over nobody, including ourselves.

Freedom Fry:
“If the US has an economic meltdown, Finns better stock up on food and fuel because the credit system that pays for the importation of all these things”

Yes, the US runs the world economy single-handedly. It’s good to know that one $700B bailout from your pockets doesn’t make you any less of a true believer in voodoo economics.

“If the US has an economic meltdown, Finns better stock up on food and fuel because the credit system that pays for the importation of all these things will break and imports to Finland will dry up.”

Typical American overestimating their own power. We actually grow our own food mostly, not rely on foreign imports.

EU is even bigger than US nowadays in global trade and like the finance minister of Germany said last week, “THIS IS AMERICAN PROBLEM”. Bye bye superpower status and all that.

See, though, that is classic — people are talking about how the US is in a bit of a slump (how long has the recession been going on, exactly?!) and then some guy comes on all a la “it’s curtains” and “Babylon is crumbling”.

Actually, US universities continue to be the envy of the world for example, and it should be noted that this is certainly not right-wing propaganda as the left continues to be quite healthy on college campuses.

There’s basically a lot of intangible assets on the US balance sheet that get overlooked. The whole civic model of democracy.

And think of all that national forest and wilderness area the BLM hasn’t got its hands on yet…. Lot of natural goodies to exploit there after Indonesia’s forests are gone and Russia is also tapped out by the Chinese.

Kris:
“some guy comes on all a la “it’s curtains” and “Babylon is crumbling”. ”

By “some guy”, do you mean Bush, Bernanke or Paulson?

I’ve been reading that unless Wall Street gets a collective $700bn golden parachute NOW, the sky will fall down.

Some guy called Warren agrees: http://us.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/28/bailout.deal/index.html

“We actually grow our own food mostly, not rely on foreign imports.” Tim, I have lived in Finland. I have seen Finnish corn. Even strawberries get imported from abroad. Lat time I checked most canned food came from outside the country.

And are you going to have enough food for when the Russians come across the border foraging?

Dumb comment Tim. Very dumb. Think Nokia is writing off the US market without a tear? globalization will probably save the US. Provided that credit markets keep the transfer of payments moving.

“And are you going to have enough food for when the Russians come across the border foraging?”

And why would that happen?

“Think Nokia is writing off the US market without a tear?”

Nokia doesn’t have much of a share in the US market. At least directly the US slump mostly hurts Motorola, RIM and Apple. Naturally indirect effects on emerging markets are another story altogether.

Then again, Nokia’s share of the Finnish economy is often overestimated. If the whole company went bankrupt, the effects would be nowhere near 1991.

“Provided that credit markets keep the transfer of payments moving.”

Not heard of SEPA, then?

I meant tim, of course. But sure, basically Bush and the cabal are resorting to simply holding a gun to the US’s head and saying “give us 700 billion or we shoot the US and leave the US for dead”.

It’s getting decidedly less metaphorical lately. I just hope it doesn’t pull ordinary citizens like me into a situation where our satirical metaphors are interpreted as something subversive. I wish Citizen Bush all the best, really. I will even visit his library. I want to see that bullhorn and maybe speak into it.

To be charitable, he may just be operating in another plane. We cannot imagine how strange his world is. Perhaps he is like a kid who gets bored with a video game and sees if he can find ways of crashing the system or having the lowest score in the Hall of Shame.

Or maybe we don’t know the backstory. Probably there’s a frat-house bet involved. Someone said the American people are smarter than that and Bush says no, and sets out to prove it.

At least with McCain we get a crazy gambler who won’t bet against his own team, not that he wouldn’t place it all on red – and that’s the best thing I can say about him, other than the fact that I’d want him on my side in an invasion of Indochina.

#139, I understand. When you hear what hurts your heart, then just burrow your head into the forest and shout “Here are trolls!”. I think you are too Suomized. The truth is that the average income and averate net worth per capita of Finland is the lowest in Europe except some far eastern countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Moldova and etc. if you count them also.

Kris:
“the fact that I’d want him [McSame] on my side in an invasion of Indochina.”

Huh? The last time he got shot down there. At least Dubya was smart enough not to go at all and do his flying in Texas.

Being partly to blame in hijacking this post and considering that it feels disrespectful towards the victims of the Kauhajoki tragedy, how about posting a new one about US bailout and the latest financial corpses?

Whew. Best meltdown since they banned chocolate fireguards. Best of luck out there. I can see the “For Sale” sticker on Winter’s hummer. Problem is, I can’t see any buyers.

Best quote of the day: a Chicago trader who said 1987 was like “a heart attack”, but this crisis was “like pancreatic cancer”. I think he was actually trying to be comforting, which probably says quite a lot for his knowledge of medical matters. In any event, sticking a $700bn bandaid on the tumour wasn’t going to do the trick – unless, of course, you believe in God. But that would also require that God believes in the market.

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