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28.8.2008

To understand the present you must understand the past

Tags: Uncategorized — Author:   @ 4:21 pm

I don’t know if that is so original of a thought, but the past few weeks’ news as well as the Finnish politicians’ reactions to the conflict in Georgia have on the one hand surprised me as it seems the politicians aren’t quite as Finlandized as they were in the 1970′s.

Maybe its due to the fact that the foreign minister Stubb is a triathlonist. Back in the 1970′s the ministry was pickled, as a recent book bluntly reveals “the things everybody knew but nobody talked about”. So how about the foreign minister passing out while negotiating with his French colleague… (Interesting change in the morals of the time – being drunk was accepted but a divorce was a huge scandal. These days its the total opposite.)  And as we’re not living in Kekkoslovakia the president doesn’t “take care of foreign affairs” as directly as before.

The Russian operation in Georgia also didn’t show much along the northern border. Back in 1968 the situation was totally different as a great article in the HS Int’l Ed details.  But still we can see some reflections of the “old days”. Apparently Halonen still has a direct line from Moscow and the politicians still keep their rhetoric… “politically correct”.

And why is this – well if you look at the numbers. Finland has huge trade with Russia – we remember what happened when the trade stopped after the collapse of the USSR. St.Petersburg is a huge market area with more people than the whole of Finland. Russian tourists bring in a significant income – a quarter of all money brought in by tourists. And of course then there is a few other deals like the Baltic gas pipe the Finns are involved in like the former prime minister Lipponen. So the rhetoric can’t be too strong. Then again the old codgers like Paavo Väyrynen have done some amazing hardline rhetorics especially regarding the wood tariffs and the truck queue problems, so its not all suck-up either.

The new reality also is that Finland is a part of the EU, and we cannot do as much solo flying as in the 1970′s… the EU formation flying seems to be a bit of a challenge in itself, but the destiny is not in Tamminiemi.

What comes to the conflict in Georgia in itself I’m not only sorry about the destruction and death but more worried of the escalation of things and the destabilization this causes – not only in the Caucasus region but even here up north. I am not looking forward to another cold war, let alone a hot one.

  • Sope

    Thank god Kanerva got fired. Loving Stubb!

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    Kiitos Hank for posting a great topic for discussion!
    I have been watching,researching,and trying to understand the renewed intensity of RUSSKIE hegemeny for quite a while now…
    Indeed it is a depressing,and worrisome development that has great impact also on Baltic state and E.U. …..
    Finland finally got up the nerve to condemn Russia for its resumption of cold war tactics…It appears to me that Suomi is in a developing Finlandisation template that puts Finns between a rock and a hard place….
    Estonia nust be really freaking at this point…Will Finland stand up and support it’s sister to the south,or will Finland whimp out and become a de-facto RUSSKIE satellite!?…
    AND what about the proposed gas pipeline between Russia and Germany,that would be built with FINNISH help!?….There are serious political implications with that environmental problem
    that are not to hard to figure out. :-(

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    I am sure there is a lot of intense discussion about Russia’s renewed threat to Finland and the entire E.U.,by Finns at home at the dinner table,and in the bars,and behind closed doors in the Finnish Parliament.
    These heated opinions and discussions of Russia will never appear in the Finland mainstream media,t.v.,and newspapers,because of fear of
    **VLAD the impaler PUTIN**

  • http://fredfryinternational.blogspot.com/ Fred Fry

    This might be a good time for those who care to bring up the return of Karelia.

    Yes, the Government does not want to push the issue considering it closed, but it was the ‘cry of the people’ as Russia claims that drove them to ‘liberate’ the two breakaway Georgia provinces. So what about the poor, displaced Karelians. Maybe they should go reclaim their homes. Putin’s is Finland’s buddy right?

    On a more serious note, this whole act has unsettled my wife who is wondering if it is a mistake to plan on moving back. How much more of Eastern Finland are Finns willing to let Russia slice away in order to protect their export market to Russia? Maybe a couple islands in the Gulf? How about leasing Hanko to them as a naval port? (Or some other port facilities) Surely the amount they want is not worth spilling anyone’s blood over. Consider it a tribute to the great relations between the two countries.

  • Hank W.

    Oh, the Russians have bought it already. You should see their “kesämökki” mansions.

  • Anon..

    It’s not such a big issue as people have made out. Obviously it will change the way the Russia is seen by western countries and effect diplomacy for quite some time, but really the only country that stands to lose by this aggression is Russia itself.
    Why? Trade and travel are the answers. Russia is much more open society than it was in the Soviet days and a lot of Russians are traveling and don’t always hold the party line – so won’t stomach a return to the cold war. They are consumers now rather than comrades.
    There are also a lot of economic reasons why the Russians need the west and they don’t want to have China as a sole trading partner.
    It’s admirable that a tough line is being made by most nations opposed to Russia’s actions and I would be willing to bet that there will be a UN peacekeeping force in these disputed ares before long.
    Did you notice also that China has come out against the Russians – nothing to do with signing an oil supply contract with the Iraqi government perhaps?
    So the Russians don’t trust the Chinese and can’t continue to be aggressive without that aggression hurting their economy.
    It will blow over. I still believe that Russia will eventually be more ‘European’ in it’s foreign policy decisions.

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    This was predictable. According to latest drive by media reports:
    **VLAD”the impaler”PUTIN** today said that ameriKKKa was responsible for starting the Georgian crisis.to influence the race for president of… U.S.of KKK-A.(tm Reverend Jeremiah Wright).
    Satana Perkele! :-(

  • N. Siinistö

    You have to admire how skillfully Russia has played this play, though. A quick invasion on the cheap into a neighboring country, and in two weeks they shocked and awed the world into taking Russia VERY seriously, indeed.

  • http://fredfryinternational.blogspot.com/ Fred Fry

    “You have to admire how skillfully Russia has played this play, though. A quick invasion on the cheap into a neighboring country, and in two weeks they shocked and awed the world into taking Russia VERY seriously, indeed.”

    Yep, Bush was stupid in that way in having to go and ask permission of the UN. Seems that all he managed to do there was stir up the anti-war protesters. Gee, where did they go? Maybe they aren’t so dumb, knowing that Russia would probably target human shields, being the surest way to ensure that few follow in their paths.

  • Antti rn

    Well, if they go soft, everybody laughs about finlandisierung, if they pick big words, everyone laughs about how scared they must be in Moscow now plus the big special extra tax ticket earned on russian export wood.

    To be honest, they can’t use too harsh language on Russia, as this Saakasvili guy isn’t exactly a saint either. I hate his winter war analogue as it practically implies that Finland fired those Mainila shots. It’s kind of hard to take sides on this issue, as Georgia’s very own Dzhugasvili aka Stalin was probably the biggest ryssä ever to live on the face of the earth. The conflict has too much “within the family” flavour.

    For a while, it’s going to be a neener-neener moment for the balts and poles behind the shoulders of NATO, EU will administer some sort of greeting ban (how ‘öykkäröintipakko’ is translated?) after which it’s back to business as usual. If they start a world war over some damned silly reason in Caucasus, the rats and cockroaches deserve to take over from human race.

    Considerations on how U.S. would deal with a russian-backed mexican president planning to join the Shanghai treaty and annex Texas, is left to gentle reader as an exercise.

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    “Bush was stupid in that way in having to go and ask permission of the UN. ”

    huh..I don’t think so….Russia can veto anything in the UN, so just why would Bush go there?

    me thinks, Fred is drinking again

    by the way how does the french white flag of surrender look? The oen you all immediatly put out.

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    winter…join fantasy football as jenkki blue crabbs!!

  • Mara

    EU needs oil and gas, so it won’t do anything to Russia. And our dear old Lipponen suffers from a bad case of Schrödingisierung.

  • http://www.stockholmslender.blogspot.com/ mjr

    I guess we should finally think seriously about joining the Nato – not because of this Georgia business or because Russia is such a huge threat (with the economy the size of Canada and basically being a Saudi-Arabia on taiga), but just to tie a loose end. Russia is not an active threat to us in any way but maybe the time has now come to follow our recent policies to their logical end.

  • N. Siinistö

    Fred -

    The difference is if you like Russia use your relatively crappy military to maximal effect or if you pour your shiny imperial army into the sands of Iraq for nothing.

  • N. Siinistö

    Maximal *political* effect, thats it.

  • Perttu

    Fred Fry: “Bush was stupid”

    Say no more. That imbecile and his tax-n-spend neocons sent America back into the dark ages, left with no foreign policy clout to speak of. Good riddance come the election.

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    The latest up-to-the-minute check of Finland and E.U. response to
    evil **VLAD”the impaler”PUTIN shows a complete unwillingness
    to do anything about new evil cold war threats from RUSSKIE hegemeny.
    The whole free world…ameriKKKa,EURABIA,Finland(clueless TARJA)
    have given the green light for COMMISSAR PUTIN to go ahead and threaten UKRAINE,BALTIC STATES,and eastern E.U….
    We will now see the start of domino conquest of neighboring cowardly countries…leading to World War 5…
    VLAD”the impaler”PUTIN is fiendishly laughing and licking his lips after many shots of RUSSKIE vodka realizing the rest of free world are spineless jelly-fish!! :-(

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    **NEWS FLASH!!!** Presidente Tarja Halonen has new female politician friend/cohort in U.S.of KKK-A.(tm Reverand Wright),with the breaking,startling announcement by Mccain campaign heads:
    Alaska Governor Sarah Palin chosen as next republican V.P.candidate!

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    “VLAD” Putin now is seriously getting drunk with dreams of world dominance,now that entire ameriKKKan political race is now proven to be
    chaotic circus of nincompoops!

  • http://leaderboard08.blogspot.com Helsinkian

    Infinndel, I think McCain would have made a big mistake if he had chosen a man. There would have been plenty of disappointed women at the two big parties. Sarah Palin is probably a more appealing choice than Mitt Romney, she may be more hard core conservative, but also more genuine, above all an outsider and someone who fights the corruption that the old Republican men in the politics of Alaska have stood for. I think she is going to get the Huckabee vote for McCain now and she’ll be more in tune with mainstream America than Huckabee. McCain represents the past and Palin the present as it is in the rough frontier state of Alaska. That’s a very interesting combination.

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    #21…I agree with you….Now that there is fast breaking info on Sarah’s background and what she stands for…the sparks will be flying
    from both parties…Sarah seems honest,competent,untainted by political corruption unlike Barak Hussein Obama the
    Rock star/messiah/ chosen one….
    The chaos circus is on, bring on the clowns known as the
    drive-by mainstream media! ;-)

  • Hank W.

    And as a sidenote, Georgia has cut diplomatic ties with Russia.

  • Dave the Extrapolator

    infinndel, I never took you for a Limbaugh listener.

    Disappointing.

  • Dave the Extrapolator

    “”"And as a sidenote, Georgia has cut diplomatic ties with Russia.”"” Hank

    So have I, for the record.

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    I am now watching live cable tv introduction of Gov.Sarah Palin…
    I had no knowledge of this woman until about 2 hours ago…
    Right now she is giving a BLOCKBUSTER speech!!
    I have been listening and watching this woman now for half hour…
    THIS WOMAN ROCKS!!….She is the REAL DEAL…
    THIS WOMAN IS A WINNER!! ;-)

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    Rush Limbaugh is having a field day today….Today is happiest day for him in a loooong time!

    The LIBS and the drive-by media are running aimlessly,trying to regroup.
    Meanwhile Barak Hussein Obama and Biden are kicking off campaign
    trail in …*BEAVER*…Pennsylvania..ha ha ha ha ha ha! ;-)

  • Dave the Extrapolator

    I don’t think it is that crazy in the LIBS camp. They’ve got it pretty well sewn up.

    If Sen. Obama is inexperienced, what does that make the “Hockey Mom”?

    Gimme a break, Rush. ;-)

  • http://stockholmslender.blogspot.com/ mjr

    infinndel, are you under influence or something? Are you always so, hmm, exuberant?

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    I think Gov. Sarah Palin could give clueless Tarja some tips on how to deal with *VLAD* Putin…
    Alaska is same as Finland in many respects,except more rugged terrain,
    and same proximity to evil Russkie empire!…*GASP*!
    hmmmmm….
    Lovely Sarah can handle a rifle and handgun quite well,loves ski mobiles,and rugged wilderness…
    AND she wants to drill for oil in Anbar province and off of ameriKKKan coast…
    Tarja has much to learn from lovely Sarah!! ;-)

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    #29…i…am…in……luv ;-) ;-) ;-)

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    Maybe Tarja will grant Finnish passport and citizZzenship to Sarah….Sarah looks like beautiful Finn girl, and has strong
    dominating personality…Like Finn women,who force their men to flee them…… on a fantasy hunting expedition….. with a bottle of Koski…. on a snowmobile…. and…with a shotgun……with no ammo! :-(

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    Hillary “the COMMIE” Clinton must be going freakin’ nuts because
    of *THAT OTHER WOMAN*………ha ha ha ha ha ha1!!

  • aet75

    Finland plays no part in this. It’s a dick swinging contest between the US and Russia that started with the needless European missile shield bullshit. Once again, the smug wankers in the White House failed to recognise realities – i.e. Russia can’t be ignored, let alone bullied any more. No use trying to play hard ball now, with their trousers around their ankles.
    The US should have let the Russians save face before it came down to talk of a new Cold War. I just hope they will quickly reassess their estimate on how far Russia is willing to take this. I don’t think they’re bluffing, not now when they have witnessed the utter impotence of the so-called international community.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    infinndel:
    “Rush Limbaugh is having a field day today….Today is happiest day for him in a loooong time!”

    Did he get an oxycodone refill?

  • Anonymous

    “Palin hunts, ice fishes, eats mooseburger, rides snowmobiles, has run a marathon, and owns a float plane.” (Wikipedia)

    So that’s alright, then. We’ll be fine when McCain falls off his perch. She’s unlikely to invade a country that seems to share so many of her hobbies.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    “So that’s alright, then. We’ll be fine when McCain falls off his perch. She’s unlikely to invade a country that seems to share so many of her hobbies.”

    Unless she does it to annex us and make us her personal playground. Let’s keep in mind that Republicans have plans of wiping all pesky wildlife from Alaska. Not to mention that she’d be close to what’s left of the Russian claim to the state.

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    The only wildlife in *ABUNDANCE*….swat..swat in Anbar province
    is…swat…swat…mosquitoes…Anbar is barren tundra..Estimations of
    size of area that would be used for drilling for oil and natural gas is 2-3000 acres there are a few polar bears in area….but polar bear population is dramaticly increasing along northern Canadian arctic shores,and are becoming a nuisance. Local Inuits and inhabitants carry shotguns in self-defense.

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    So in summary..another EU back yard event. The entire EU hangs out its french white flag of surrender, except Georgia.

    Have to give little Georgia credit, they did read good on the first day. Even killled the Top Russia General in his Tank.

    Now the USA is sending in Condi Rice as a sniper, she will take out some pesky Russians.

    Anyone notice that Iraq is now, way way off the radar?

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg
  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    “The best Sarah Palin picture yet!”

    darn she looks like she stopped in at a Finnish party….

    any rum involved?

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    :Finland plays no part in this.”

    is the standard answer we get to every event in this world, from Darfur to the Balkins.

    So, how many have to die, before “Finland plays no part in this.”

    Oh I get it, its Bush’s fault….somehow……

  • Anonymous

    Winter: “So in summary..another EU back yard event. The entire EU hangs out its french white flag of surrender, except Georgia.”

    You may wish to buy a map. It’s Russia’s backyard, but those wise Americans thought it would be a good idea to yell and wave really loudly back in April saying that Georgia would be in Nato before no time (without actually meaning it). Obviously their developed foreign policy brains failed to see that this might slightly irritate Moscow.

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    Look, you French Waiver the white flag of surrender at Russia types need to just give all your F18′s to Georgia.

    They would then put them to a very good use.

    What a bunch of yellow bellies you all are.

  • Anonymous

    I feel really touched that our pal Winturd still finds the time to post here, what with there being so many hotspots around the world where he could and should be taking his all-singing, all-shooting brand of lunacy. I’d have thought what with his one-man expeditions to Helmand Province, Mosul, and now South Ossetia his typing fingers would have been at least slightly fatigued. Go proton power!

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    Sorry can’t go, I still glow in the dark after 44 trips inside the microwave oven.

    Then again, you would expect the USA to bail you out…again, and again.

    You wearin your yellow shirt? Hang up you white flaggie thingie?

  • aet75

    Winter. And here I was thinking ‘one track mind’ is a figure of speech, lol. OCD, anyone?

  • http://stockholmslender.blogspot.com/ mjr

    Actually winter and infinndel are intellectual, balanced voices of reason compared with the wildly popular US conservative talk radio. This makes me think that the creationists (read winter and infinndel among million other braindeads) must be right: we would be way smarter if we really would be descended from the apes…

  • born there

    Aint it fun to be Eurotrashian nowadays? AmeriKKKa? WTF. You will be kissing that ameriKKKan ass again to save your Eurotrashian asses AGAIN. The Russians are about to beat you silly little socialist asses into the ground. Cant wait . hehehe

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    “Eurotrashian nowadays” is always been good sport. You have had the Nanny state for how long? Yep, the one that keeps GDP down and enslaves the poor?

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    #48….mjr…I AM NOT A CREATIONIST!!…SATANA PERKELE..
    Please do not insult me with that label…I am an atheist…I am a science minded person and believe in scientific method.I reject
    creationism TOTALLY…I also believe with scientists who now state that”man-made cause of global warming’ is a political sham and a hoax,being promoted by idiotic nincompoops like Al Gore..
    Al Gore no way deserved a Nobel prize for his phony, inept,statistical manipulating hogwash that he passes of as science!! SATANA!

  • http://stockholmslender.blogspot.com/ mjr

    Well, you certainly do sound like a creationist, go figure. Are quite sure about this? And is it with or without medication?

  • infinndel the jenkki dogg

    #52…GIVE ME MY HALDOL AND 2 ATIVANS AND I BECOME HARMLESS! ;-)

  • A.

    I thought I’d join the discussion with a link from the latest news:

    http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24272873-5001028,00.html

  • issi
  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    infinndel:
    “#52…GIVE ME MY HALDOL AND 2 ATIVANS AND I BECOME HARMLESS!”

    You are already harmless. Knocked out you’d be less of a nuisance, that’s all.

  • http://google Jacub

    THIS DOSENT HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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