Customs stopping import of jet-skis from Amerikka, customers accuse of price protection.
@ 11:55 am According to an article I read this morning in Helsingin Sanomat, a lot of people have had jet-skis (vesiskootteri) stopped by customs, when they have tried to import them. Many customers are quite upset and a lot of hate mail has been sent to customs. Some of the complaints have been accusations of price protection. The prices of the same products in Finland are apparently that much higher, that it is cheaper to pay for the product, shipping, customs and tax and still get it cheaper than buying the same product from local businesses. Well, that is not new in Finland. Customs, on the other hand, have said that a lot of the products come in with fake papers. One had a fake insurance paper. I wonder what the relevance is, what does that have to do with anything? Do you have to insure your shipments or is it voluntary? A lot of the products are the same exact ones that are sold here. With some, they claim that it does not conform to EU emmissions standards. They have to be modified in order to be accepted, and that can be difficult and expensive. I wonder if the difference is really that significant. It used to be that the purpose of customs was for keeping illegal things and people out of the country, but its purpose nowadays is mostly price protection, isn’t it?
**It used to be that the purpose of customs was for keeping illegal things and people out of the country, but its purpose nowadays is mostly price protection, isn’t it?**
Yes.
But to be fair, in all the times I have taken in lots of undeclared goods, I have only ever been stopped once by the Tulli, and that was for an enormous box with a mountain bike in it. We explained that it cost less than it really did, and that it was a gift from someone etc… They didn’t fine us and let us take the bike in.
Oh, and there was the time that they seized a very used camera that I had accidentally left in the States that my folks mailed to me… I had to go faaar away to a customs office to talk the officer into letting me have it. He did.
But once they did actually fine us for a box of Christmas presents from my parents. It was something like 20 €.
It doesn’t seem like the Tulli people are really that well managed, to be honest.
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 2:39 pm
“emmissions standards” on a Jetski? Mine starts up with a big puff of smoke. there is no way its emmissions standard friendly.
A jetski is like a Hummer. You get one just to have fun, and of course to poke a finger in the eye of all the enviro types.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission” — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 3:00 pm
When I lived in Finland I was going to bring my granddad’s old Lincoln to Finland, partly as a joke because it was so big and ugly, about 8 years ago. It was ten years old and worth about $5,000 in the US. I asked Customs how much it would be and they wanted me to pay about $30,000 on it if I imported it so I didn’t.
I still have the e-mail they sent me. Talk about government distortion of the free market!
Comment by dhen — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 5:09 pm
4 years ago,when I was visiting Suomi,I saw a commercial on Finnish tv
for a new Mazda 6i sedan that I had recently purchased in Massachusetts.
I got a great deal on my new car which listed for US $19,500 dollars.
I was able talk the car dealer down to an amazing US$15,200 net price!
The net price for the same vehicle in Finland was listed on the commercial was…GET THIS…*32,000 EUROS* talk about sticker shock!!
UNBELIEVABLE rip-off by the powers that be in the Finnish car dealership racket….despicable!!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 5:36 pm
15,200 USD = 10 294,96 EUR
32,000 EUR = 47 246,42 USD
Holy shit.
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 5:56 pm
This just seems to be a case of Customs enforcing the law. They don’t just have a duty to collect, well, duty… they also have the responsibility to stop illegal goods entering Finland (and indeed, the entire EU if its coming from a non-EU country first to Finland). So, if these jetskis do not meant the legal emissions standards, they are not permitted to be imported into the country regardless of whether you are prepared to pay the duty or not.
For the same reason, certain American meat products are not allowed to be brought into the country because the animals have been injected with stuff that is against European food health regulations. There are loads of cases of goods from China being stopped due to not meeting legal requirements etc. This jetski thing is probably getting attention above its merit because its the sort of thing upper-class Eira and Grani residents wanting to import them for their summer pursuits, and they tend to complain louder. They probably think they have the right to buy themselves around legal requirements.
Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 7:10 pm
Yay Customs, I’m all for stopping anything, with a two-stroke engine and no “Stihl” or “Homelite” marked on it, on border.
Comment by Antti rn — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
The jetski thing seems to be about the lack of the “CE” label.
The CE label(an acronym for the French “Conformite Europeenne”) certifies that a product has met EU health, safety, and environmental requirements, which ensure consumer safety.
But I wonder if that Mazda really needed 30,000 EUR worth of modifications to meet EU / Finnish standards?
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 7:26 pm
erm, 30,000 USD, I meant to say.
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 7:30 pm
“EU health, safety, and environmental requirements, which ensure consumer safety.”
first..they do not ensure anything except job for the the fat cars who make regulations up.
Its the Nanny state gone wild. Where is the CE sticker on your skiing equipment? Or do you have that as well?
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission” — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 8:20 pm
Another point might be, send in the Jet Ski, part by part. I did that with a motercycle (In 8 boxes), and paid no taxes (USA).
Then had to put it together.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission” — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 8:22 pm
We recently got a Volvo XC70. We were interested to see what they go for in Finland and were shocked to see that they sell for twice as much. Odd thing, even though the dollar has been dropping agains the European currencies, the prices of BMWs and Volvos here has been dropping as well.
We move back, we will certainly take advantage of out right to bring a car each with us tax free. (Plus as much stuff as we can fit into a shipping container) Probably a boat as well!!!!!
Comment by Fred Fry — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
Yep, Finnish customs IS used for price protectionism, that is a well known fact – on cars. It is used to hamper free movement of goods and people in the European Union, which undermines the whole purpose of the European Union. In fact Finland is or has been in court over the car tax and the lack of clear rights people have here with their cars, when they move here from another country where they have been residing, whether Finnish citizen or foreign. And there there is the VAT (ALV) slapped on top of the already heavily taxed car price, which is illegal, so they changed the name to ELV, which is still illegal, because it is treated like VAT as a business deduction. It is quite a mess, but the solution is simple.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 8:42 pm
I am all for taxes that serve as at least some kind of a disincentive to overconsumption of natural resources and the emission of poisons.
Also, I kind of enjoy hearing about Americans wailing and gnashing their teeth about having to pay four dollars for a gallon of gasoline (an amout that is less than we’ve had to pay in Finland for years).
It’s as if fucking up the planet were a basic human right, on a par with personal ownership of deadly weapons, and freedom of speech – although admittedly, the Bush administration seems to have declared the latter more or less obsolete!
Is this nanny-statism? It looks to me like you American crybabies could have used the services of a supernanny a long time ago.
Comment by K. Wilska — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 8:48 pm
**I am all for taxes that serve as at least some kind of a disincentive to overconsumption of natural resources and the emission of poisons.**
If the 100 percent tax on cars is due to environmental reasons, then why don’t they outlaw them outright? Whom is the tax serving?
Why don’t Vanhanen and Halonen (and for that matter all government vehicles) use hybrid cars or something less toxic to the planet? I was just in New England and I saw plenty of hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles on the roads (much more than last summer) as well as many people driving new (presumably because of their fuel efficiency) MOPEDS!
Can you point me to some source that says where all the car tax money goes? And don’t just give a blanket statement that they go towards the “free education and healthcare.”
Where does that other 15,000 EUR of a 30,000 Mazda go, really?
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 9:05 pm
“If the 100 percent tax on cars is due to environmental reasons, then why don’t they outlaw them outright? Whom is the tax serving?”
Actually, I agree that the tax should focus more on the use, rather than the ownership of the vehicle. Recent moves to alter the vehicle tax to favour models that emit less are a step in the right direction.
“Why don’t Vanhanen and Halonen (and for that matter all government vehicles) use hybrid cars or something less toxic to the planet?”
I wish they would.
Comment by K. Wilska — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 9:15 pm
Bullshit (article). Old news and not correct.
http://radionews.fi/index.php/2008/07/21/customs-note-boom-in-grey-imports-of-water-scooters/
The number of water scooters being imported from outside the European Union without the correct CE certification is growing, Finnish Customs have warned, despite it being illegal to use non CE marked water scooters within the EU.
Comment by Sweden — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 9:18 pm
If Finland was serious about lowering fuel consumption and encouraging environmentalism, it would have been supporting people making and using their own biofuel, instead of waiting for the EU to force them to. Instead they slapped people with multiple-times diesel tax, until no-one even wanted to try. Now the EU has forced them to encourage the use of biofuel and even set a quota for the amount. Nowadays, people can power their cars on pig farm methane, or plant oil, for example and not pay anything extra for it.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 9:37 pm
17??
What is bullshit?
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 9:37 pm
Theres nothing in the car tax prohibiting free trade. Actually the tax-free prices in Finland have for ages been some of the lowest in Europe. You can buy anything anywhere and have it in your garage and masturbate over it daily. To get it on the road you just need to pay the tax just like anyone else. You people sound as if owning a car was some sort of human right.
Comment by Hank W. — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 9:55 pm
#15 Where does that other 15,000 EUR of a 30,000 Mazda go, really?
As Finns say: herrojen persiisiin…
Comment by Hank W. — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 9:56 pm
Slapping a tax on an imported good is one thing. If they state that it has to pass an emissions test before you can legally register and use it sounds reasonable. But barring it from entering the country altogether is just silly.
By contrast, I have a used engine in my car from Japan that was never sold in the US. This is legal so long as it meets local emissions standards.
“Also, I kind of enjoy hearing about Americans wailing and gnashing their teeth about having to pay four dollars for a gallon of gasoline (an amout that is less than we’ve had to pay in Finland for years).”
Finns pay more for gas because they choose to tax it more. I recall seeing a sticker at one gas station in Vantaa that pointed out that 75% of the price of gas is tax. In any case, when the price of fuel doubles in a short time, this has a lot of economic consequences. Even if you ride a bicycle to work, everything you buy is trucked in to the store you buy it at and high fuel prices can translate into inflation and other economic problems – something that’s already started to happen in the US. People in rural areas are really getting hit by this, since they have to drive more.
Comment by dhen — Sat, Aug 9th, 2008 @ 10:42 pm
#22; “…when the price of fuel doubles in a short time, this has a lot of economic consequences…”
Certainly, but countries with a decent public transport infrastructure and urban planning that does not assume that each individual has a personal fuel-powered vehicle at his/her disposal every day are not as vulnerable even to big price rises as the Americans seem to be to small ones.
Comment by K. Wilska — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 12:24 am
How do you figure? Doesn’t public transportation also use gas? I’ll be the first to admit that public transportation sucks in the US, but I imagine that people in rural areas in Finland also use cars a lot. Not everyone can live inside Kehä I.
Comment by dhen — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 12:45 am
#24 “How do you figure? Doesn’t public transportation also use gas?”
Yes, but public transport is still more fuel-efficient and cost-effective than each individual riding around encased in a ton or two of metal. Even if the doubling of the price of fuel leads to the doubling of the price of a bus or train ticket, the economic impact on the public transport passenger is less than on a person who is completely dependent on his or her own car.
Furthermore, it is easier for a society to cope with rising energy costs if it has a decent public transport infrastructure in place: ticket prices would not necessarily increase in direct proportion with fuel prices, because higher fuel prices encourage more people to take a bus or a train.
Certainly, the price of energy has economic consequences everywhere, especially rural areas. My point is that the more energy-intensive the economy is, the greater the negative impact.
A couple of months ago I was listening to an American call-in radio show on the Internet where the caller lamented that with his family situation – living in a development far away from the city, both partners needing their own car to get to their respective jobs, and three kids needing chauffeur service to their respective activities – their monthly gasoline bill was in the four digits.
I can sympathise with the predicament of those individuals, but I don’t particularly sympathise with the collective plight of the United States, which should have seen it coming. The 1973 oil crisis was supposed to be a serious wake-up call on the limitations on both the energy supply, and on the capacity of the global ecosystem to bear the burden of all those emissions.
Instead of preparing for the inevitable by seriously developing more fuel-efficient vehicles, and designing communities structured in such a way that public transport would be feasible, as soon fuel prices eased a little, Americans went back to their old wasteful habits, with the US car industry introducing vehicles that burn more carbon-based fuels than ever before, and with real estate developers and municipal planners allowing urban sprawl to accelerate.
Comment by K. Wilska — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 1:41 am
“Yes, but public transport is still more fuel-efficient and cost-effective than each individual riding around encased in a ton or two of metal.”
– Yes, when the bus is full. What about all those hours during the day when the buses are running mostly empty? Sure you can cut back service, but then your pushing more people into cars.
– This is not an either/or situation. Face it, most families in the US and Finland need to own cars and sometimes they are in them alone. Just get used to it. You can go an haul a week’s worth of groceries or your Ikea purchase on the bus, but you have no right to force the rest of us to do that. Don’t worry, the planet will be just fine.
Oh, gas is on the downswing here. In the last two weeks it has gone from $4.31 a gallon to $3.94 today where I’m at. Good luck seeing that sort of price swing in Finland.
Comment by Fred Fry — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 3:24 am
#25
Yes, when you put it like that I don’t have an argument with you. There is a lot that should have been done to prepare for this. My point, which you now also mentioned, is that a lot of regular people are getting hurt by this.
Comment by dhen — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 3:37 am
Funny how these jet-skis are banned yet Finland has all those silly mopoautos out on the road.
Comment by Fred Fry — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 6:50 am
I’m curious. Are there any call-in radio shows in Finland? Do people actually call? Are they as contentious as the American shows sometimes are, and what’s their nature? (Political/social/religious)
My hunch is that political involvement, at least in the form of public debate, is not as active in Finland in the United States. This difference intrigues me.
Comment by AmeriikanEnkeli — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 8:09 am
#26 “You can go an haul a week’s worth of groceries or your Ikea purchase on the bus, but you have no right to force the rest of us to do that.”
Who is guilty of coercion here? It’s the promoters of an unsustainable energy-intensive lifestyle who are forcing the rest to deal with the consequences of excess consumption – and one of those consequences is demand-driven rising costs of energy.
“Don’t worry, the planet will be just fine.”
Sure, the planet will be OK – it just might end up not being habitable for humans.
Comment by K. Wilska — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 10:42 am
Here’s a pretty good op-ed piece in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/opinion/10friedman1.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin
Comment by K. Wilska — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 11:16 am
I’m curious. Are there any call-in radio shows in Finland? Do people actually call? Are they as contentious as the American shows sometimes are, and what’s their nature? (Political/social/religious)
My hunch is that political involvement, at least in the form of public debate, is not as active in Finland in the United States. This difference intrigues me.
Well, as in many other western countries, we have problems with turnout at elections – although not yet to the same degree as in the United States.
If you are asking as to whether there are debate programmes in the radio with audience participation? Yes, there are. They cover all manor of things – but you don’t really get programmes that are very biased towards one viewpoint, because that would be essentially against the broadcasting laws. The United States differs in allowing tv channels such as Fox News (and numerous more if you count the radio) to not be balanced. It wouldn’t be acceptable in Finland. Such things are left to the print media.
Comment by Jonas G — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
“Who is guilty of coercion here? It’s the promoters of an unsustainable energy-intensive lifestyle who are forcing the rest to deal with the consequences of excess consumption – and one of those consequences is demand-driven rising costs of energy.”
– Well the Soviet Union tried it your way. Didn’t work out too well did it.
– The high price of energy in Finland has nothing to do with demand. It has everything to do with taxes. Which were made worse with the addition of paying for Kyoto credits. And for what? So that European energy companies can then go and damage the third world by exchanging useful projects with useless ones that do nothing but earn them carbon offset money.
– And lets take a look at the promoters of a neutral impact lifestyle. Some of the biggest promoters (Mrs. Larry David, Al Gore for example) each use as much energy as a small town.
Comment by Fred Fry — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 4:37 pm
” I’m curious. Are there any call-in radio shows in Finland? Do people actually call?”
Yes, but any political debate with even dash of relevance takes place on letter-to-the-editor sections of the newspapers. Nationwide “Kansan radio” by YLE and “Puskaradio” here in Oulu are something that any sane person can listen only 30 seconds maximum. They usually have a) the same village idiots calling in or b) old geezers complaining about everything.
Comment by Antti rn — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 5:58 pm
#33 “Well the Soviet Union tried it your way.”
No they didn’t.
“The high price of energy in Finland has nothing to do with demand. It has everything to do with taxes.”
And high taxation of energy is a good way to introduce an disincentive into the market against excessive consumption of a non-renewable resource. The low fuel taxation in the United States has encouraged waste, and when the price rises anyway (to a level far below the European average), the whole country is in a panic, because communities are totally unprepared to deal with the situation. Well boo fucking hoo!
“And lets take a look at the promoters of a neutral impact lifestyle. Some of the biggest promoters (Mrs. Larry David, Al Gore for example) each use as much energy as a small town.”
Just because a person’s actions aren’t always consistent with the message, doesn’t mean that the message is wrong. The fact that smoking causes cancer is not diminished if the person giving the warning is a smoker himself.
Oh, and who is Mrs. Larry David?
Comment by K. Wilska — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 6:32 pm
“and when the price rises anyway (to a level far below the European average), the whole country is in a panic, because communities are totally unprepared to deal with the situation. Well boo fucking hoo!”
– Now who is buying into what the news media is feeding you? I don’t see any Americans around here whining. The price is gas in Europe is way too high and it is all over Europe where people are finally staging demonstrations over it, not the US. But it’s your own damn fault for accepting the reasoning for $6 gas. So when it becomes $7 gas it’s a problem. Get real.
As for wasting resources, the EU can conserve a huge amount of fuel if they would reduce the taxes on alcohol and tobacco. This way you wouldn’t have to ship this crap all over Europe for people to buy and then ship back home. Booze cruises kill the planet. Bring booze to the people!
The low taxation in the US has encouraged growth. Some waste too, but watch how quickly we squeeze that out of our system and keep on moving forward.
Comment by Fred Fry — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 7:06 pm
#36 “Now who is buying into what the news media is feeding you?”
Well, I must admit, I get much of my information from newspapers and the electronic media, as I lack access to the voices in Fred’s head, which apparently are much more reliable sources.
“The price is gas in Europe is way too high and it is all over Europe where people are finally staging demonstrations over it.”
There have been a few scattered demonstrations in Europe, mainly by professional drivers who are most seriously hit. Naturally many ordinary commuters are also somewhat unhappy about the situation, but at least in cities, even those who commute by car, it is fairly easy to take a bus or train instead.
As I have indicated before, a fairly high price for fuel has nudged market mechanisms in such a way that there is both a demand for, and a supply of reliable public transport. Furthermore, communities and infrastructure have been planned in a way that not everyone is expected to own an individual vehicle.
“…the EU can conserve a huge amount of fuel if they would reduce the taxes on alcohol and tobacco. This way you wouldn’t have to ship this crap all over Europe for people to buy and then ship back home…”
There is certainly a case to be made about the absurdities of the booze cruise system. However, in this topic, it is simply another diversion by someone grasping for straws to make an argument – quite similar to the alleged inconsistencies of the messages and the actions Mr. Gore and Mrs. David.
People traveling from one jurisdiction to another to buy cheaper alcohol and tobacco is a relatively small factor in the energy consumption and global warming equation. Nor is it a uniquely European phenomenon: it also happens between the USA and Mexico, between US states with differing liquor laws and tax rates, and between Indian reservations and the outside world.
“The low taxation in the US has encouraged growth. Some waste too, but watch how quickly we squeeze that out of our system and keep on moving forward.”
I’d like to see that. I’m not being sarcastic, I sincerely would like to see that! To that end, why we should hope that oil prices remain high. Already now, people in American cities that have some kind of a public transit system are using it more, and SUV sales are plummeting to the point that car manufacturers are having to reduce output, while hybrids are in increasing demand. The lessons of 1973 show that the incentive of higher fuel prices is needed to get the population at large to do the right thing.
Comment by K. Wilska — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 8:53 pm
“I’m curious. Are there any call-in radio shows in Finland? Do people actually call?”
Well, there’s Kansanradio and then there’s Yöradio. Most of the shit on this blog belongs in either of them. Go on and call, it’s practically free on Skype.
(Of course, the Redneck got there first)
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Aug 10th, 2008 @ 10:13 pm
Wilksa,
They are a bit more than just scattered. Hell, Helsinki was threatened with a trucker slowdown over midsummer and just the threat threw the whole Government into a tizzy. In addition to the truckers, the fishing vessels have been protesting as well, in some cases by blocking ports. this is what happens when over half the price of something is tax.
“Furthermore, communities and infrastructure have been planned in a way that not everyone is expected to own an individual vehicle.”
– Well that is probably more true in the US than Finland. Many people who live in US cities do not own cars. Finland is certainly no better in that respect. At least those who want to buy a car in the US can afford one, even the poor. Finland discriminates against the poor possessing automobiles.
Comment by Fred Fry — Mon, Aug 11th, 2008 @ 2:18 am
“At least those who want to buy a car in the US can afford one, even the poor. Finland discriminates against the poor possessing automobiles.”
In my experience most Finns who want a car have one. The difference between Finns and Americans in this regard is that Finns often drive shitty cars that pollute the environment more because the prices for cars are kept artificially high by the government. A lot of these cars wouldn’t even be legal in California, which has the strictest emissions standards in the world. I don’t know why Finns put up with this. Just across the water in Sweden the situation is different.
Still, though, I have to admit that it does suck not having a decent rail system here. I would much rather take the subway to work than drive in traffic, but it’s not an option where I live.
Comment by dhen — Mon, Aug 11th, 2008 @ 3:23 am
dhen:
“Just across the water in Sweden the situation is different. ”
This is all very simple. Ever heard of Volvo and Saab? In comparison, those few Porsches put together in Uusikaupunki are not a sufficient reason to eliminate the car tax.
We’ll see if the switchover to sporty hybdrids will have political consequences. I doubt it.
http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Aug 11th, 2008 @ 8:51 am
Freedom Fry:
“Hell, Helsinki was threatened with a trucker slowdown over midsummer and just the threat threw the whole Government into a tizzy.”
I suppose you can expect from someone who reads the Drudge Report regularly. In reality, though, one bozo got the smart idea of initiating an SMS campaign calling for blocking the midsummer traffic. His own union was against it, for chrissakes.
Yeah, and I think I’ve seen a few mopoautos too. In the 1970s.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Aug 11th, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
Franklyn, I was just there earlier this summer. I saw two new ones in Tampere over the course of two days.
And it was not the Drudge report I was watching about the trucker threat it was Finnish news, which covered the threat in great details including the Government’s threat of big fines if any truckers disturbed the midsummer exodus from the capital. Only once the threats came out did the union speak out against it, partly because there was immediate support among the truckers and partly because they got their message across.
By the way, Drudge does not report any news, it just links to some stories. Are you saying the stories he links to are not true???? What do you read, Pravda? Worker’s World?
Comment by Fred Fry — Mon, Aug 11th, 2008 @ 3:35 pm
Fred, what is it with you right wingers (like deaf druggie Rush Limbaugh, dippy Sean Hannity and douchebag Glenn Beck) and the knee-jerk reaction to anything different thinking and you label it “Commie.”
It doesn’t say very much about your creativity or thought process.
Additionally, your comment:”At least those who want to buy a car in the US can afford one, even the poo,” speaks volumes about the fantasy world in which you apparently reisde.
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Mon, Aug 11th, 2008 @ 6:37 pm
(poor, not poo)
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Mon, Aug 11th, 2008 @ 6:40 pm
“Franklyn, I was just there earlier this summer. I saw two new ones in Tampere over the course of two days.”
Well, it is possible that the whopping 676 mopoautos registered during the first half of 2008 (as opposed to 99207 regular vehicles) all went to Tampere. I wouldn’t know, I haven’t been there in a couple of years.
The stats: http://www.ake.fi/AKE/Tilastot/Ensirekister%C3%B6innit/Ensirekister%C3%B6innit+kuukausittain+ja+ajoneuvolajeittain/2008+ja+2007.htm
Before we descend any further into idiocy (as I will no doubt be beaten with experience), it would perhaps be good to note that these mopoautos are rather a symptom of the increasing affluence rather than the wretched poverty of Finns, as they cost as much as the cheapest real cars (around 10k); they can be driven by any 15 year old whereas you need to be 18 for a licence, so many a rugrat gets one for his/her confirmation present.
“By the way, Drudge does not report any news, it just links to some stories.”
Some stories indeed. If you rely on that as your only source of news, you will emerge with a world view as skewed as that of, um, some people.
“What do you read, Pravda?”
If you mean HS, quite regularly. If the original, I occasionally read the English edition online.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Aug 11th, 2008 @ 8:38 pm
Please Dave,
Talk about lack of creativity. Any conservative that says anything against the accepted group think is immediately tagged with being a Fox News/Drudge Report zombie. As written above Franklin was the one to attempt to discredit my comments by linking me to news sources that liberals can’t stand.
You too have added what I guess are media personalities distasteful to the left. Glenn Beck? Who the hell is that? I don’t watch Sean Hannity (I had to look him up because I thought he was on NBC) and I don’t have time to listen to Rush Limbaugh. It seems that too many people are all too concerned with the news messengers and too little concerned about actual news.
Maybe that’s why propaganda works so well in the western world. You just need to find the right personality and your all Good. How sad.
Gee, how did we get here from jet-skis!
Comment by Fred Fry — Mon, Aug 11th, 2008 @ 8:47 pm
Freedom Fry:
“Talk about lack of creativity. Any conservative that says anything against the accepted group think is immediately tagged with being a Fox News/Drudge Report zombie.”
If you refer to the objective reality as “accepted group think”, then this is most definitely the case.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Tue, Aug 12th, 2008 @ 10:31 am
**You too have added what I guess are media personalities distasteful to the left. Glenn Beck? Who the hell is that? I don’t watch Sean Hannity (I had to look him up because I thought he was on NBC) and I don’t have time to listen to Rush Limbaugh. It seems that too many people are all too concerned with the news messengers and too little concerned about actual news.**
Those three are the three biggest names in right wing media (primarily AM radio). Beck pulls in 10 million clams annually just for his syndicated radio show, he also has an hour long program that runs on CNN Headline news, which is repeated three times a night. Don’t tell me he and the others don’t have massive influence on your thought processes, because each time I hear stuff like “Gore is trying to take over the world with his Global Warming Hoax,” it is just an echo of what these fat media cats are saying. Every time I hear that Obama is a terrorist involved in a Commie plot to give America to the Negroes, I hear the reverberations of these pudgy pundits (that you claim never to listen to).
That you call these people “news messengers” underscores my point. They are decidedly NOT news messengers, they are (politely) entertainers and messengers of Republican talking points and more commonly, mongers of hate and sources of lies and obfuscation.
That the right in the US has now admitted that there indeed is something going on with global warming but continue to deny that it is related to fossil fuels is just another one of their lapses in logic.
“The planet will be fine…” You reassure us (and likely your children). Meanwhile the Right, struggling to redefine itself after the fiasco now known as the most disasterous US presidential administration, wants to pretend that the US can slake its thirst for oil by drilling in Alaska (or wherever)… These pundits are taking you and your family for a ride and don’t care when they just stop the car and drop you and your kids on the side of the (delapidated) highway.
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Tue, Aug 12th, 2008 @ 12:06 pm
Actually, I consider myself a moderate liberal/libertarian of sorts and I don’t find Sean Hannity to be a “monger of hate” at all. He can be opinionated and adamant, but I’ve never found his messages to be hateful.
I think it’s really important to keep a level head and listen to both sides before resorting to hyperbole.
Comment by AmeriikanEnkeli — Tue, Aug 12th, 2008 @ 7:06 pm
I think it’s really important to listen, too. That’s why I do. Do you? Do you deny that Limbaugh and Beck are haters (not to mention the idiot Savage) ?
As for Hannity, I pulled this up:
Hannity refused to disavow Ted Nugent’s slurs against Obama and Clinton http://mediamatters.org/items/200708270006?f=s_search
Comment by Dave the Extrapolator — Wed, Aug 13th, 2008 @ 7:17 pm
“Don’t tell me he and the others don’t have massive influence on your thought processes”
Dave, you need to stop drinking the cool aid.
I do not watch or listen to any of them. Just when do I have time. I am out of the house around 7AM. I have a 15 minute car drive to the office. If I am not listening to music, then I have National Public Radio on, which is probably as liberal as you can get for radio, at least radio that anyone listens to. I get home around 6PM and I deal with the kids until about 8PM. If I am lucky, I get to watch the first 15 minutes of ABC’s World News Tonight. Again, not exactly neocon ground. Then maybe. Just maybe I can watch some TV with my wife. That takes me to 10PM. Then I try to work on my blog and do other computer stuff until about midnight. No TV is on. Then I go to bed. On Wednesday evenings I go out shooting from 7-10PM. So just when you you think I am getting my daily brainwashing?
Oddly, you seem to be really plugged into the news services.
“That you call these people “news messengers” underscores my point.”
– And what is that anyway. I just pointed in in two posts now, that I don’t watch any of the messengers.
“These pundits are taking you and your family for a ride”
– You know what I don’t get about all you oil company haters, is that if these companies are such great cash machines, then why don’t you own some stock? Where do you think all that profit goes?
– Well if the guys in charge now are taking me for a ride, then what about Obama. Since he wants to raise my taxes, that would make me oven worse off with him in charge……
“that there indeed is something going on with global warming”
– Is the planet getting warmer? At least is was.
– The issue is not whether or not the planet is getting warmer, but if so, what is the cause. Reducing carbon emissions makes sense IF carbon is to blame.
– The US should drill more. We have much more to drill. We should also be using much more coal and nuclear for that matter. So should the third world. Everyone should have access to cheap electricity.
“the fiasco now known as the most disasterous US presidential administration”
– Really, maybe your opinion. I however am better off than I was eight years ago. What are you basing this one?
Comment by Fred Fry — Thu, Aug 14th, 2008 @ 4:38 am
Dave,
I went to the link you posted, and I can see why Ted Nugent’s comments are inflammatory. He’s a jerk! But the fact that Sean Hannity, his supposed friend, won’t disavow him doesn’t indict Hannity in my book. If people disavowed each friend who said something distasteful or rude, many of us would be lonely.
Comment by AmeriikanEnkeli — Thu, Aug 14th, 2008 @ 8:02 am
Fred Fry:
“- Really, maybe your opinion. I however am better off than I was eight years ago. What are you basing this one?”
Sweet. And my income has increased about 5-fold under Tarja. All hail the Red Commander!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fGCsh_bnhuQ
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Aug 14th, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
Yes yes and yes they tend to put taxes on everything in Finland. We never question these high prices as the taxes are supposed to go to so-called free education and healthcare.
Not so many European countries follow all the directives such as obligatory CE- marking on imported devices. It is widely known that manufacturers just put the CE-marking in the products without testing them for CE compliance in the certified laboratory. Certification is quite a big business though…
Finland is just stupid enough to follow all the EU directives and blindly obey them even if they were harmful for the economy.
Nobody can blame the politicians for much intelligence…
Comment by yeptrue — Tue, Mar 10th, 2009 @ 6:38 pm