Phils cousin gets the cheap chicken
@ 8:16 pm Growing up in Finland I heard a lot from the politicians “its a lottery win to be born in Finland”. When I had grown up I realized “you require a lottery win to be able to live in Finland”.
Things are expensive in Finland - maybe not that expensive in comparison with the other Nordic countries with a similar taxation and geographical structure, but expensive to the average consumer as the purchase power in Finland is low. The Finnish financial magazine Taloussanomat wrote about the purchase power in Finland earlier this month. According to the article , “Finns are paying themselves sick” for goods and services. Lack of competition is given as one of the a reasons why for example groceries in Finland cost one fifth more than the EU average. Finland has been quite notorious for keeping foreign competition out, and now that there are no more barriers it seems nobody is really interested in coming over as the volumes aren’t there. So Finland remains a keskolandia.
Now being somewhere at the EU average is one thing, but starting to compare things globally doesn’t make the prices look any better. When Phil goes to buy a chicken in Finland, his cousin in the USA can buy four chickens with the same price! The Iltalehti had a comparison of prices for groceries in Helsinki, Stockholm, London and New York, and it seems in the UK and USA (and London and New York are expensive cities), you can get by with about half of what you pay in Stockholm or Helsinki. Of course one explanation is the sheer volumes that bring the prices down, but it still is peculiar while milk or potatoes cost approximately the same, in some products, like meat, the price differences can be quadrupled.
With the global food shortage being blamed on the biofuels is causing food prices to go up, it still doesn’t quite explain why in Finland you need to pay your ass off just to buy your basic stuff. Then again if Norwegians come to buy “cheap booze” from Finland, we can say theres a place where things are worse. Or are they - the purchase power in Norway is higher than in Finland . Your avarage consumer is faced with the problem of rising prices and already now the shopping habits of people are changing. Maybe next year this time I’ll be sharing a potato and brown sauce recipe.
I commend you on a well written blog article, Hank. I always hear from my Finnish friends about the prices of everything so high, but it’s nice to know how high in comparison they really are to an American.
Comment by Jay — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 8:49 pm
We’ll get a lot of anti-left ranting here in no time i’m sure, but the issue of competition is really interesting. The big 2 chains here must have what 80+% of the market between them? We’d totally freak out about that in the UK at least, and i’m pretty sure the US too. And there’s no left-wing welfare state case for big private monopolies. This is what’s odd - the left should hate it, real economic liberals should hate it and consumers should hate it. I just don’t get why we all put up with the high prices and crappy service. Is there some lobby other than the big chains (agriculture?) to blame?
Comment by Rich — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 9:02 pm
It’s worth disentangling the high prices that are due to VAT, from those due to other factors. In the UK there is no VAT on savoury food, yet even taking into account that 22% hit, it is still much cheaper in the UK.
There’s also the currency issue here. If we compare food prices in Finland and the US or UK over the last couple of years, they will look expensive because the euro is strong. So even if the prices stayed the same in both countries it would appear that in Finland the relative price would have shot up.
However, even taking these factors into account, there is something horribly inefficient going on in Finland. As Rich rightly points out, there is a de facto cartel created by Kesko and SOK. I don’t know what their margins are but it would be interesting to see. I would guess of the order of 30%. Tesco and Wall Mart would be nearer 10%, which is usual for a mature industry.
The trouble here is that competition will not come from abroad because the market is too small and anyone coming knows that Kesko and SOK will drop their prices immediately. What we need is a court case against the cartel.
Comment by Finnsense — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
The VAT on food is 17% in Finland (which I think is quite high)
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 9:50 pm
To become a lil’ bit more vegetarian?
Comment by Taboo — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 9:54 pm
I know that both are actually complaining about tight margins (which is all the more absurd). Some representative made a statement recently that decreases in food VAT would be needed to boost their profits rather than lower prices.
I think one thing to consider with the costs is that with the hikes in oil prices, an import-based and domestically fuel intensive food market on the periphery of Europe will suffer most. But that only explains the recent jumps in prices.
Is there a real consumer advocacy group in Finland? If there is, they should be fired.
Comment by Rich — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 9:54 pm
I tried to dig up some statistics,
Market shares
http://fi.nielsen.com/news/documents/Lehdistotiedote_3_maaliskuuta_2008.pdf
K-group 33,9
S-group 41,0
Tradeka Oy 11,9
Others 13,1
Lidl has about 4% share.
Kesko (K-group) used to be the biggest for long, but the S-group co-ops have made a huge advancment - I didn’t know they’d gone over already. But as yoiu can see theres two big players gobbling up 3/4 of the pie.
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 9:59 pm
#1 I don’t know how “accurate” the survey was, but heres the price breakdown. Helsinki-Stockholm-London-NewYork. Do you feel the US prices are in the ballpark? I think some of the items listed for Helsinki you could get cheaper. Also not everything in Finland is the most expensive… can’t find much anything cheap in Sweden though
http://static.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/graffaruokakoriMP_uu.gif
(prices in euros)
milk/liter 0,88 - 0,90 - 0,78 - 0,85
an egg 0,18 - 0,15 - 0,13 - 0,09
ground meat pork&beef/kg 5,87 - 5,79 - 1,58 - 2,52
wheat flour/kg 0,38 - 0,73 - 0,30 - 0,51
tomatoes/kg 1,69 - 1,57 - 1,68 - 3,79
bananas/kg 1,19 - 2,10 - 0,85 - 0,91
toast/500g 1,59 -2,10 - 0,50 - 0,94
coffee/500g 3,39 - 3,47 - 2,55 - 2,74
cheese/kg 9,79 - 9,37 - 5,56 - 6,31
orange juice /liter 0,99 - 2,52 - 0,87 - 0,49
new potatoes/kg 1,45 - 1,46 - 1,25 - 1,63
sugar/kg 0,79 - 1,25 - 0,75 - 0,68
packet of margarine 1,49 - 1,36 - 0,33 - 0,63
coca cola bottle 1-liter 1,27 - 0,91 - 0,95 - 0,57
chicken fillet/kg 12,39 - 13,17 - 11,22 - 2,53
sausage/kg 3,98 - 5,25 - 5,72 - 2,20
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 10:09 pm
#6 Interestingly tight margins as traditionally you can go buy a Finnish product cheaper outside Finland than what you pay for it in Finland.
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 10:19 pm
People of Suomi…please come to ameriKKKa and spend your hard earned
EUROS on fantastic array of electronics,dvd,s and cd,s..that are much cheaper then you pay in Finland…Hotels,taxis… FOOD…FOOD…FOOD..
OLUT…vodka… clothes…sneakers…shoes…whatever are a fabulous bargain for any Finns vacationing in good old U.S.A….!
Comment by infinndel the jenkki dogg — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 10:22 pm
Yeah, cheese is getting closer to being the equivalent of the market value of gold per kg. If someone is going to rally people up for a protest cause of this, count me in.
Comment by Keksi — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 11:22 pm
Those figures are very interesting - if slightly weird. Why would tomatoes be so expensive in the US? Of course we have to hope they are comparing like with like. British sausages are much more expensive than Finnish sausages but then that’s because they aren’t made of rubber. The standards for agriculture in general are much higher in some places than others. In fact, if one discounts crazy cows, the British actually treat animals quite well.
Comment by Finnsense — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
Will y’all realize this piece of tabloid journalism for what it is?
Probably not, when celebrating the fourth of heinäkuu was best spent with barbacoa al Hilal, followed by some classic Communist literature with a fine Cuban blunt.
Check the prices again people, or simply continue to whine about everything like proper yanks, wanks, or whichever label you prefer. Do we have anything else to do this summer than read tabloids and comment on blogs?!
Comment by El Gabacho Chingón — Tue, Jul 8th, 2008 @ 11:49 pm
Ah yes, sexual preference has everything to do with your own topic. You posted it, sir Hank W., so you must be dang bored.
Comment by El Gabacho Chingón — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 12:30 am
As you can see the problem here is any assclown can post anything as anybody in the comments.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 12:56 am
#12 Yeah, I was wondering, its also a question if the prices were taken from some sort of average price or not, as some of that stuff seems overpriced, and it isn’t really fair if in Finland you go to Stocka and in London to the Tesco.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 1:06 am
Reading through the comments, I hear a little voice in my head that says “Let them eat cake”.
Comment by Jay — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 1:06 am
#8, I live in one of the last places in America to have cheap gas and food prices (Missouri). I’ve seen a picture taken from last summer of one of my Finnish friends showing another what kind of soup box something was in, or some matter, and the picture showed all the food prices on the shelf. At the time, I thought it was three times as much.
Then the USD began to get weaker.
Then food prices went up since then.
Comment by Jay — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 1:12 am
Looks like Phil’s cousin gets lot of bones in his chicken fillet.
It is obvious that the U.S. price is for whole chicken, not for fillet. What kind of asses can believe such a shoddy “study”?
Comment by KVG — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 3:57 am
KVG - Whole chicken, but not filet? That’s doubtful, but nice try anyway LOL!
You don’t need studies and surveys to show that almost everything in Finland is severely overpriced. Just travel to any European country and you’ll see what a ripoff Finland is.
You can take the Finnish monopolies to court, but you’ll get a watery compromise solution at best. The only way to get market prices is to lower taxes drastically to expand the economy. Anything else is just foolery.
Comment by Jerome — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 6:16 am
Do you guys ever check the spam filter?
Comment by Jerome — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 8:23 am
I swear if you went to a grocery store in virtually any other city in the U.S besides New York, you would find even cheaper prices.
Perhaps even if you only went a few kilometers outside of NYC as well…
Still, nice article Hank and nice to see exactly what all the bitching is about…
Comment by HELLsinki — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 9:39 am
It always cracks me up when people compare Helsinki or even Stockholm to cities like New York or London…
Yet another proof that Finns dont get about enough, (not to call some Finns narrowminded)
What is next?
Comparing Porvoo to Dehli? or Espoo to Sao Paulo?
Some things are just too diferent to be compared in ANY level whatsoever…
A morale after years in Finland… stop comparing and get on - put up or shut up!
Comment by Maid'n — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 10:07 am
Interresting and well written blog article… my only complain is that paris isn’t compared
boooo
Comment by frenchman — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 10:44 am
Karelian Diamond Resources plc (AIM: KDR) is pleased to announce highly positive results from micro-diamond analysis of the 100 kg sample from its Seitapera kimberlite in Finland. In total 67 diamonds were recovered in the sample, of which 61 were micro-diamonds and the remainder were macro-diamonds, the largest of which measured 0.63mm by 0.48mm by 0.38 mm.
Comment by Kultakuume — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 12:05 pm
#21 And I wonder if the tomatoes were organic. There is the “Big Mac” index and there are shopping comparisons they actually try to find the equivalent products, but thats extremely hard.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 12:21 pm
#24 What would you say - would the prices be much different? I remember going to the Auchan and a few other stores but as for the prices… didn’t pay that much attention, didn’t strike me as cheap for all the products - but not insanely expensive considering the quality offered.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
Whatever the propaganda of the Finnish government, the food prices in Finland are ridiculous in comparison to other Western nations. They are even more ridiculous if you take into account that the per capita income in Finland is relatively low in comparison to other nations with lower food prices. Fact is, food prices are going up all around the world, also in Finland, but this does not really explain the high prices in Finland. Finnish politicians, as well as the common Finn, like to blame ‘Europe’ or the ‘world market’ for the high prices for some reason, but that is just poppycock (without the world market, the Finnish prices would be far higher as their is no real food production in Finland, which would lead to scarcity and thus high prices). The prices are higher in Finland than in practically the entire Western world for the simple reason that there is no real competition - the Finnish market is ‘locked in’ for the following reasons:
- nationalistic Finns who _want_ to buy at a ‘Finnish’ supermarket; a ‘foreign’ supermarket is often regarded as ‘less good’. Finnish supermarkets buy roughly 80-90% of their products outside Finland, which is rather ironic in this context.
- the market in Finland is small and lacks any real momentum from the perspective of foreign supermarket chains (for a large part due to the first reason); there is therefore less incentive to enter the Finnish market.
- the buying behavior of Finns in general; supermarkets particularly make money on the stuff you buy in addition to the basic groceries. This market is currently underdeveloped in Finland, which may have some cultural reason.
- in relation to the first point, most food is imported, there is practically no domestic Finnish production, meaning that those who import can determine the price in ’silent agreement’. Ask yourself, what is the way how food is imported in Finland, what does it mean if the same import organization delivers to two supermarkets that differ basically only in name?
- the Finnish supermarkets do not really play according to the rules of the free and open market, but prefer to establish fixed prices with a small deviation build in to pretend they are providing a ‘free market price’. Finnish politicians shy away from addressing this point, perhaps because they are afraid of being accused of not being Finnish minded.
Comment by Liberté — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
Liberté: “(without the world market, the Finnish prices would be far higher as their is no real food production in Finland, which would lead to scarcity and thus high prices)”, “- in relation to the first point, most food is imported, there is practically no domestic Finnish production…”
You got to be kidding. Finland is still almost self-sufficient in most basic foodstuffs. If you look up the food production statistics, you can see that domestic production has steadily increased even since the 1980s. A lot of food is imported, true, but this is mostly due to the fact that Finnish natural conditions support only a limited variety of agricultural produce and livestock.
Comment by Drakon — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 3:20 pm
Better to not take it seriously Drakon. He’s just maiing stuff with out actually knowing anything about this topic.
Anyways people have tried to get some competition going by getting the all so mighty K shops down by shopping Prismas and so on, but of course that’s still just the 2 biggest.
Lidl seems to be leaving Finland because it’s not profitable enough and i thought they where doing just fine as at least my local Niittukumpu Lidl has customers always in line. It really is shame if Lidl leaves.
Comment by Kips — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 3:36 pm
What do you mean “leaving Finland” they’re opening new Lidls left right & centre?
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 3:59 pm
Liberté wrote (#28):
“nationalistic Finns who _want_ to buy at a ‘Finnish’ supermarket; a ‘foreign’ supermarket is often regarded as ‘less good”
Yes but foreign is less good. Some examples, in chronological order:
“Ministers quit as new Europe food scandal is exposed”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/jun/02/stephenbates
“Hormone food scandal rocks Europe”
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2551-hormone-food-scandal-rocks-europe.html
“Ireland’s genetically modified food scandal”
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82703
“Greek Government knew about tainted cooking oil for two months yet failed to act”
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/greek-government-knew-about-tainted-cooking-oil-two-months-yet-failed-act
And last but certainly not the least, Italians and Germans uniting in serving us rotten cheese:
“Rotten cheese scandal spreads to Germany”
http://www.thelocal.de/12901/20080705/
Bon Appetit.
Comment by Åboy — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 4:40 pm
#23 Not at 6am.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
There’s a documentary on Wal-Mart on TV 1 today. I read a review of it in Hesari, where the writer of course castigated Wal-Mart for all kinds of evils, and urged “responsible consumers” to not buy stuff from low-price supermarket chains. Having just returned from the local supermarket, all I could hope was that the writer chokes on some bizarrely overpriced Finnish cheese, and that Wal-Mart lands in Finland.
Comment by Turjake — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 9:01 pm
@30 Liberté
I agree with all your points. Nationalism in Finland is a problem that affects many things. Especially prices.
@22 Jerome is also correct in that you can’t have a nearly communist economy, with exceptionally high taxes, and expect to have a western standard of living.
Many factors add up.
Comment by Libertaer — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 9:06 pm
What is the problem with “nationalism” as in promotling local products? Do you think the planet is saved when rainforests are razed to grow cattle and tomatoes hand-picked by illegals are flown to Finland? Meanwhile what will the local farmer do - sit in the pub drinkingt himself to death and you then complain of the drunks? How is it “organic” to transport foodstuffs from all over the globe, and destroy the local economies instead of growing food for their own needs they produce “cash crops” with slave labor - like cocoa in Cot D’Ivoire? “Nationalism” is the only good thing left in the Finnish consumer consciousness.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 9:30 pm
#28 - Jay - in the USA your “super expensive” gas costs converted 0,64 euros/liter. Here in Finland its 1,54 euros/liter…
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jul 9th, 2008 @ 9:42 pm
I have to say that, based on my own experience, Finnish nationalism is downright nauseating. It’s not just about where vegetables are grown.
Comment by nick — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 2:33 am
SUOMI IS DAMN EXPENSIVE::::WHHYY :(((((
Comment by Anonymous — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 3:05 am
#41 Totally agree. I wouldn’t dream of buying meat from Brazil, NZ or Argentina, apples from China etc.. The price of food is not just about the €/kg - there are other things to consider.
I find Finns are quite resourceful and healthy eaters. Take breakfast for example. A bowl of oat porridge costs a fraction vs a bowl of Nesquik Rabbit Droppings loosely disguised as food and is infinitely more nourishing.
Finns do not spend more on food than USA/EU citizens. They spend less. But they eat differently. And don’t believe their diet is necessarily less nutritious than the Western average. Not true either. USA/GB nationals are notoriously bad eaters (+++fats, +++carbs etc). Finns eat plain simple food (OK unsophisticated if you like) but that doesn’t make it “bad”.
Since I have lived here (I shop and cook for a family of 5) I believe we eat well, all be it very differently to the other countries we have lived in. I am happy to eat blueberries (for free) rather than cherries (we used to grow in our garden) and eat elk instead of beef, salmon instead of John Dory or Monkfish.
Finland produces a great variety of foodstuffs. But foreigners who insist on replicating menus from abroad (”Finnish peanut butter is crap etc”) are bound to be frustrated (and IMO don’t know what they are missing).
PS: I wouldn’t even consider buying an egg that cost 0,09 € and neither would you if you saw where it came from.
Comment by PR — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 11:46 am
Not #41….
I totally agree with #38 (hanks post)
Comment by PR — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 11:48 am
“I wouldn’t even consider buying an egg that cost 0,09 € and neither would you if you saw where it came from.”
I thought all eggs came out of the same place of the chicken
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 4:47 pm
The meat in Finland is not only more expensive by far, but damned if I didn’t almost become a vegetarian by default since the quality of meat is so awful! I mean, all those bits of chicken and pork in sauces aren’t in sauce because they’re quality meats. I still think back to the first time in a Whole Foods after moving back to the US and I stood in shock and awe at the absolutely gorgeous meat counter.
I sure don’t miss the sucktastic groceries in Finland.
Comment by hfb — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 8:56 pm
hfb:
“I stood in shock and awe at the absolutely gorgeous meat counter. ”
The again, when you throw away 50% of all food produced, you can make pretty nice displays. We will, however, see the end of this party in the not too distant future. Speculation schmeculation. How’d you like $500 per barrel?
It’s such a shame I didn’t have money to invest, say, 3-4 years ago, as I would have been pretty heavily into oil.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 9:17 pm
And besides, it would be equally lame to compare packaged marinated broiler chunks at the local Siwa to the Stockmann deli meat counter.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 9:20 pm
“all those bits of chicken and pork in sauces aren’t in sauce because they’re quality meats.”
So why buy them? I never do. I buy proper meat, and that you can find in every supermarket.
Comment by presso — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 9:23 pm
#48: Just because. If this was AmeriKKKa for Thought, we’d be bitching and whining about what crap Jell-o is and why no other desserts are available anywhere in the United States.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 9:30 pm
Well, theres ice cream and apple pie
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 11:12 pm
Agree. The marinated neon chicken is sooooo disgusting. But there is really good meat available too, if you have a rifle and a dog…. and it’s totally organic.
Comment by PR — Thu, Jul 10th, 2008 @ 11:17 pm
#46 franklin - “The again, when you throw away 50% of all food produced, you can make pretty nice displays”
If that’s your way of saying that Finland is all about getting the _other_ 50%, then I won’t disagree. I lived there, so I know all about it.
Just so you know, you don’t need to shop at Whole Foods to get better quality and prices than in Finland. Any old Acme in the United States will do just fine. Even Acme makes Finland’s best supermarkets look like low budget mini-markets.
Comment by Beth — Fri, Jul 11th, 2008 @ 12:16 am
Beth:
“If that’s your way of saying that Finland is all about getting the _other_ 50%, then I won’t disagree”
Depends a lot on where you get your mozzarella from…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7318391.stm
http://www.thelocal.de/12901/20080705/
“I lived there, so I know all about it.”
Please tell me it wasn’t one of these two week stays that made you the supreme authority on everything concerning the country.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Fri, Jul 11th, 2008 @ 1:49 am
I was in Finland recently after a couple of years since my last visit. Food prices have just skyrocketed. I couldn’t believe the prices. The Finnish people are getting ripped off, and they just meekly wait in line at the grocery stores to get robbed. Why don’t they protest, or at least get their elective officials to launch anti-trust investigations against the cartel.
Comment by Peter — Fri, Jul 11th, 2008 @ 10:43 am
Brb, got to buy a chicken.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Jul 11th, 2008 @ 11:21 am
All the usual apologist nonsense about food prices being high in Finland because of short growing seaaon, high transportation costs, small markets, high VAT etc. just don’t cut it as explanations.
Probably, the real reason is that the large chains are huge bureaucratic, high market share price leaders without meaningful competition, and so instead of being lean and mean operators, they just simply pass along their high costs to the complacent meek Finnish non-complaining consumers.
Unfortunately, foreign operators are not too keen to go into the Finnish markets because of the “kotimainen laatu” attitude of the Finns, small markets, and probable reaction of the Finnish chains to temporarily lower their prices as a way to kill off any outside competition. Didn’t food prices drop abit for a while in Finland after Lidl entered the market?
Comment by Peter — Fri, Jul 11th, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
#45: “I stood in shock and awe at the absolutely gorgeous meat counter.
Well, unfortunately meat produced in the US is banned in EU. So we don´t have a chance for those “gorgeus” meat counters.
“The EU banned hormone treated beef 11 years ago, but the World Trade Organisation ruled that the EU had to provide more scientific evidence or lift the ban in 10 days time.
Last week, however, Brussels threatened to suspend even imports of hormone free US beef after discovering traces of the banned chemicals.”
“The World Trade Organisation has ruled that the EU must provide scientific evidence for its longstanding ban on US beef imports, or lift the ban in 10 days time.
It will say it has now done this and its report singles out a hormone called oestradiol.
It is one of six hormones used by American breeders to make their cattle grow faster and bigger.
According to the EU report, oestradiol is also a complete carcinergen. Quoting recent evidence from independent scientists, the report alleges that even small residues of it in meat may produce cancer tumours.”
Comment by presso — Fri, Jul 11th, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
Presso - *cough* Well, the US has banned EU meats for sometime and reindeer from FInland, etc. has been banned since Chernobyl. I know, I know, Finnish pork farmers are SO much more humane and pristine ( http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Police+to+investigate+reports+of+serious+animal+cruelty+at+Finnish+farms/1135232235980 ). I’m sure those cows and pigs are as hormone free as your ski teams.
All the meat at Whole Foods claims to be hormone-free.
“So why buy them? I never do. I buy proper meat, and that you can find in every supermarket.”
You need to visit a Whole Foods and understand what a real meat counter looks like. Stockmann’s meat counter looks like something from the third world by comparison.
Freeridin’ - “The again, when you throw away 50% of all food produced, you can make pretty nice displays”
Honey, I never, not ever, had a grocery clerk look at a potato display in advanced stages of putrification complete with attendant flies and tell me to simply pick out the good ones in the US. While I can appreciate maybe trying to use as much of your produce as possible, selling rotten produce and repackaging nearly-spoilt meat in sauces to get the most out of stuff….why pay top euro for that shit?
Beth - “Any old Acme in the United States will do just fine. Even Acme makes Finland’s best supermarkets look like low budget mini-markets.”
Word.
Comment by hfb — Fri, Jul 11th, 2008 @ 4:24 pm
Aboy in 34 says:
“Yes, and foreign is less good”, and then she lists a few anecdotal negative examples of foreign tainted food and transforms the few examples into a sweeping generalisation that Finnish food products are inherently better than foreign food products.
I agree with Aboy that Finnish food products are healthier and more pure than foreign products.
However, if you are one of the lucky few that can afford the Finnish as well as foreign food products from the local grocer’s shelves (Experts Fear Finns Will Skimp on Veggies, as Food Costs Soar, http://www.yle.fi/news/index.html ), you must, however, not cook them in Finnish water, whatever their national origin, according to these anecdotal examples:
Finnish Town Faces Fecal Foul-up
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,527057,00.html
Water Supply Returned to Normal in Kirkkonummi
http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id95592.html
Water Boiling Advisory Lifted in Porvoo and Askola
http://www.yle.fi/news/id95435.html
Comment by Peter — Sat, Jul 12th, 2008 @ 1:27 am
Experts fear what? Finns are already eating less veggies than people elsewhere in Europe. Guess why that is? Kotimainen paprika is still almost 6 euro a kilo, even though this is the best time of the year for them (they were over 10 euro a few months back). Only tomatos are affordable now. Not for long though.
überfarmer SL Anttila called for the lifting of tax on food. How come no MP ever asked for such a thing before? She must feel the pain of the consumer… or perhaps not. It’s just the farmers that will profit more if more food is consumed, since it was the same Anttila that not long ago said that higher food prices were in fact welcomed, since it was positive for the farmers. Lesson for all of you: Keskusta is there only for the farmers interests, not for consumers and the majority of Finns!
I would love to buy only Finnish, because it makes sense to buy stuff that is made in your neighbourhood and does not need to travel hundreds if not thousands of kilometres, but I won’t if some people want to make money off the single fact it has an avainlippu or joutsenwhatever on it, even when it is highly subsidized.
Comment by majava — Sat, Jul 12th, 2008 @ 11:12 am
Majava - People could sell dried dog turds rolled in powdered sugar for 10euro per kilo or more if it claimed the ‘kotimainen’ label. For some reason people seem to think that because Finland has *cough* no toxic lakes, no fertilizers dumping into the Baltic aiding in the eutrophication/death of said body of water, no corruption and no deception that it must naturally be worth 3-4x more than the price for, say, strawberries from Spain that are bigger, tastier and, lest we forget, green fur-free. Besides, any of the really good produce from Finland doesn’t get sold in Finland, especially not in the local groceries. Why sell prime produce to people who will pick through a bin of rotting, mushy potatoes and pay about the same price?
I always wanted to try the turd test just to see. Someone try it and post the results.
Comment by hfb — Sun, Jul 13th, 2008 @ 1:01 am
#61. “Strawberries from Spain that are bigger, tastier and…”
Any credibility you might have had, is just out of the window.
Comment by Zak Berry — Mon, Jul 14th, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
Zak - Hey, if you like those expensive tiny, mouldy strawberries at the local K market, more power to ya, honey.
Comment by hfb — Mon, Jul 14th, 2008 @ 7:54 pm
I don’t complain about strawberries. Don’t like them really
But gf does, so I buy ‘em for her and ask how they were. Seems to be a lot of difference in between the suppliers (growers) and you can’t judge much from the appearance. They are now 4 to 5 euro a liter. Don’t know if that’s much or not, but I think it’s on the high side, since the harvest was and is still fine.
The quality of vegetables and fruits in the supermarkets has lately been quite appalling. Thank god they’re so expensive that I do not feel guilty not buying them and have a good excuse to again prepare myself an all meat manburger!
Comment by majava — Mon, Jul 14th, 2008 @ 11:26 pm
Forget about an “all meat manburger” since Finland is much more famous for its fake-meat makkara. It splits open after only a half-minute on grill - all filler, no meat. I wonder how much they have to pay the inspectors to let them claim xx% meat. Of course, inspectors don’t mind because it’s all common procedure to rip off consumers in hyvinvointi valtio.
For real meat, go to Eesti Wark (I think that’s what it’s called) near Kamppi. It’s a small shop, but at least the Estonians don’t rip you off.
Comment by Pauli — Tue, Jul 15th, 2008 @ 3:24 am
hfb - yea, don’t touch them, I don’t as I am very picky about strawberries. Go for the open markets, you’ll find fresher crop there. And what’s wrong with tiny berries, the big ones are usually the ones with more water and less taste.
I fill my freezer every year with hand-picked strawberries, plenty of strawberry farms in and around Espoo, not a single bad berry if you take the trouble.
But I really wanted to make a point about Spanish strawberries. They arrive here some time in April-May, first packed in plastic boxes, then you start finding them in groceries and open markets. Can you honestly say, you’ve enjoyed them, with the compact, wood-like texture? Where did you buy the good ones? How much did you pay for them?
Just curious. I truly enjoy Swedish strawberries, too.
Comment by Zak Berry — Tue, Jul 15th, 2008 @ 11:49 am
@Pauli, Yeah I know about makkara, and still I buy them. I am too far away from stores that sell anything decent and I am also not going to spend a small fortune in Stockmann. I am one of those foreigners in Finland that do not complain much about the food and I learned to live with what’s offered here. There is only one general complaint I have and it’s the biggest moan you will ever here from me. It is about those Finns that do not complain! They are the reason they (and we) are treated the way we are now and a lot more.
My manburger is made with sikanauta (interesting animal that is
jauheliha -400 gram for € 2,09. I had stroke when I looked at the price of chicken… no more saté for me 
Fresh strawberries from abroad should be imported just before the season starts in Finland and maybe also after it. Like I said before, I encourage to buy local.
Comment by majava — Tue, Jul 15th, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
You know a sausage is all filler when you offer it to the dog and the dog isn’t interested.
I stopped buying Finnish sausage when my dog took a sniff and walked away.
Zak - Yeah, I bought strawberries down at the open market which were fresher but, ironically, more expensive than they were in the supermarket though they were green-grey fuzz free. I didn’t notice a tremendous difference between them and the Spanish ones in the store. We just went strawberry picking here and they were pretty good but we can get fresh strawberries from California all summer long for pretty reasonable prices. Blueberry season is just now coming up and I will admit that I miss the lowbush blueberries from up north.
Comment by hfb — Tue, Jul 15th, 2008 @ 4:39 pm
I just came back from seeing family in Finland, and damn. It is freakin’ expensive. About the only thing I could afford was the 50 cent pehmis at Hesburger. I mean, damn.
That said, I do miss a lot about Finnish food. I love karjalanpiirakat. I love ruisleipa. I love the pastries and Cabanossa. Savusilakoita? Sign me up. And there’s something about Jaffa that American sodas can’t match.
But I come back to the states and thank my stars that I can get fresh local peaches and strawberries picked that day from a local farm. Oh, man, my Finnish relatives come here and cry at the produce sections of local markets. They can’t believe the varieties of lettuce, herbs, apples, berries, mushrooms, fresh corn on the cob, tomatoes (organic? vine-ripened? roma? heirloom?) onions, and at last count, five different types of potatoes on the shelves. All shipped that morning. Freshly picked.
And it’s cheap.
Comment by AmeriikanEnkeli — Wed, Jul 16th, 2008 @ 6:56 am
For those who can Finnish, an excellent article from Statistics Finland on inflation:
http://www.stat.fi/artikkelit/2008/art_2008-07-10_002.html?s=0
Comment by Agent Provocateur — Wed, Jul 16th, 2008 @ 9:02 am
AmerikanEnkeli in 69 says it all.
When I am in the US, Canada, or UK, I just can’t believe the selection, variety, inexpensive prices, and above all the quality of the produce being sold in the food markets as compared to Finland.
Finland, by comparision, seems like a halfway house to the markets of the Old Soviet Union when it comes to fresh produce.
And the prices in Finland are overwhelming. And on a price quality basis, it is worst. And on a price quality basis adjusted for Finnish purchasing power, you can almost cry.
Today, YLE has an article from a social democrat politico saying she is not in favour of reducing the VAT on food. It is crazy to keep the tax revenue up on food only to pay out more later in health benefits to poorer individuals whose health will suffer because they cannot afford a healthier selection of food. What kind of social democrat is she: the tax collection ideological type or the looking out for the general well-being of Finns type?
Comment by Peter — Wed, Jul 16th, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
AmerikanEnkeli in 69 says it all.
When I am in the US, Canada, or UK, I just can’t believe the selection, variety, inexpensive prices, and above all the quality of the produce being sold in the food markets as compared to Finland.
Finland, by comparision, seems like a halfway house to the markets of the Old Soviet Union when it comes to fresh produce.
And the prices in Finland are overwhelming. And on a price quality basis, it is worst. And on a price quality basis adjusted for Finnish purchasing power, you can almost cry.
Today, YLE has an article from a social democrat politico saying she is not in favour of reducing the VAT on food. It is crazy to keep the tax revenue up on food only to pay out more later in health benefits to poorer individuals whose health will suffer because they cannot afford a healthier selection of food. What kind of social democrat is she: the tax collection ideological type or the looking out for the general well-being of Finns type?
Comment by Peter — Wed, Jul 16th, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
Yes, but how is the welfare state prohibiting competition? We actually do have free market in the retail sector. Go and check. No state shops, no socialism, no rationing, no price controls. Lidl got in - we have several domestic chains. The government is not interfering with special offers and price competition. Why does the cartel exist?
Comment by mjr — Wed, Jul 23rd, 2008 @ 1:05 pm
I don’t care about the welfare state and yes, we have a free market, but who says free markets always work? That’s why things are like they are, it just does not work like it should. Markets need regulating because businesses are run by the same turds as countries.
But for this problem here in Finland I do not see any solution besides perhaps if we all start importing all our stuff, including groceries and clothing from let’s say…Germany.
Comment by majava — Sat, Jul 26th, 2008 @ 7:12 pm
Peter:
“The Finnish people are getting ripped off, and they just meekly wait in line at the grocery stores to get robbed. Why don’t they protest”
http://www.inspiringthots.net/movie/serenity-prayer.php
The Free Market at work. Hallelujah!
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Jul 28th, 2008 @ 2:39 am
AmeriikanEnkeli:
“Freshly picked. And it’s cheap.”
Oh yeah. And without doubt picked by Hummer-driving billionaires with awesome purchasing power.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Jul 28th, 2008 @ 2:41 am