Comments on: The Riot Years in memoriam http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/ Politics, current events, culture - From Finland & United States Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:45:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Risto http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365560 Risto Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:23:10 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365560 "Bottom line. Unless if you have a rock solid business plan. Do not do business in Finland." Especially if you personally live in Finland. It might be ok if you are a big powerful multinational corporation, so that you can threaten to close the shop if Finnish authorities cause trouble. "There is probably no country in the west where businessmen are hated / envied more than in Finland." How true. The childishly jealous Finn will try to eat you alive if you are successful. It's not a good atmosphere, so that's why many successful people move away. I did and I'll never move back. “Bottom line. Unless if you have a rock solid business plan. Do not do business in Finland.”

Especially if you personally live in Finland. It might be ok if you are a big powerful multinational corporation, so that you can threaten to close the shop if Finnish authorities cause trouble.

“There is probably no country in the west where businessmen are hated / envied more than in Finland.”

How true. The childishly jealous Finn will try to eat you alive if you are successful. It’s not a good atmosphere, so that’s why many successful people move away. I did and I’ll never move back.

]]> By: Freeridin' Franklin http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365455 Freeridin' Franklin Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:10:45 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365455 #22: Yes, I have experience of the stealth corporate tax with a 2 week deadline. Now, considering that everyone with a pulse gets hundreds of thousands of credit these days, 40k for a healthy business is no big deal, so no need to be a drama queen and talk of going bankrupt. In any case you prepare for these incidents by keeping a strong balance which is easily accomplished by paying crap salaries. Certainly Finnish companies tend to prepare for the "unexpected". #22: Yes, I have experience of the stealth corporate tax with a 2 week deadline. Now, considering that everyone with a pulse gets hundreds of thousands of credit these days, 40k for a healthy business is no big deal, so no need to be a drama queen and talk of going bankrupt. In any case you prepare for these incidents by keeping a strong balance which is easily accomplished by paying crap salaries. Certainly Finnish companies tend to prepare for the “unexpected”.

]]> By: Hank W. http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365454 Hank W. Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:28:49 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365454 Well, if it is the tax offices mistake originally, you can count but they can't. Well, if it is the tax offices mistake originally, you can count but they can’t.

]]> By: Freeridin' Franklin http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365453 Freeridin' Franklin Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:20:30 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365453 #21: "Did you guys know Finland has closer to 600 000 (about every fourth person) people employed by the state?" No I didn't know that, as I didn't know that the moon is made of cheese. Instead I know that as of November 2007 the number was 119,667. Now the municipal sector is another story altogether. http://www.tilastokeskus.fi/til/vkp/2007/vkp_2007_2008-06-27_tie_001_fi.html "Do not do business in Finland." And many people even buy this crap, hence the cosy competetive situation for entrepreneurs. Finland is an excellent environment for doing business, particularly when the business is skill-intensive and the skill is in demand. If you can't plan ahead your dividend and capital gains taxes, perhaps you shouldn't do business in Finland - or anywhere else for that matter. #21:

“Did you guys know Finland has closer to 600 000 (about every fourth person) people employed by the state?”

No I didn’t know that, as I didn’t know that the moon is made of cheese. Instead I know that as of November 2007 the number was 119,667. Now the municipal sector is another story altogether.

http://www.tilastokeskus.fi/til/vkp/2007/vkp_2007_2008-06-27_tie_001_fi.html

“Do not do business in Finland.”

And many people even buy this crap, hence the cosy competetive situation for entrepreneurs.

Finland is an excellent environment for doing business, particularly when the business is skill-intensive and the skill is in demand. If you can’t plan ahead your dividend and capital gains taxes, perhaps you shouldn’t do business in Finland - or anywhere else for that matter.

]]> By: Antti rn http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365452 Antti rn Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:17:25 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365452 Well, the first thing Rytsölä's, ex-tango royalty, Irwin Goodman et al. should have done is to hire a good accountant. Just to have a professional to do the moped driving. You see analogous cases in smaller scale in some small rural bank office. Somebody sells his forests or reindeer herd. The first re-investment of their newly liquidated assets is usually a taxi from Kittilä to Oulu. I kind of miss that period in the 90's though. Crazy ideas were allowed, everything was not stifled by the corporate bureaucracy. There were plenty of work-related stamps in passport from places one does not necessarily go for a vacation and places one would like to go for a vacation. Travel plans were mainly rubber-stamped back then. Well, the first thing Rytsölä’s, ex-tango royalty, Irwin Goodman et al. should have done is to hire a good accountant. Just to have a professional to do the moped driving.

You see analogous cases in smaller scale in some small rural bank office. Somebody sells his forests or reindeer herd. The first re-investment of their newly liquidated assets is usually a taxi from Kittilä to Oulu.

I kind of miss that period in the 90’s though. Crazy ideas were allowed, everything was not stifled by the corporate bureaucracy. There were plenty of work-related stamps in passport from places one does not necessarily go for a vacation and places one would like to go for a vacation. Travel plans were mainly rubber-stamped back then.

]]> By: Hank W. http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365451 Hank W. Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:10:16 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365451 I've got a mate getting bankrupted by the tax office. They asked for 90K he said its wrong and after the appeal the amount is 40K but it has to be paid immediately - as he could've paid the 90K in installments. So as theres not so much cash the company is butchered - not that he wouldn't have a cash flow with customers owing him... in 2-3 months. Yeah, in other countries theres an "Act of God" and here its called VERO. And then people ask why is it foreigners start a business and Finns don't? Finns "know" a few things. ;) I’ve got a mate getting bankrupted by the tax office. They asked for 90K he said its wrong and after the appeal the amount is 40K but it has to be paid immediately - as he could’ve paid the 90K in installments. So as theres not so much cash the company is butchered - not that he wouldn’t have a cash flow with customers owing him… in 2-3 months. Yeah, in other countries theres an “Act of God” and here its called VERO.

And then people ask why is it foreigners start a business and Finns don’t? Finns “know” a few things. ;)

]]> By: Do it for the drugs http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365450 Do it for the drugs Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:26:01 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365450 Did you guys know Finland has closer to 600 000 (about every fourth person) people employed by the state? Little wonder they are sue happy when it comes to potential tax money, they need to suck every last cent out of the people not employed by the state to pay the salaries of those who are. Rytsölä brothers should have left the country when they still had money. In Finland the taxman ALWAYS sues you for “deliberately misallocating money" if you go broke. The punishments for this vary from suspended sentence to sentences that are worse than those for rapists and pedophiles. Also, the goverment can take away persons right to do business for the rest of your life. Only case of this being done in US ive heard of is when Michael Milken had his trading licence suspended, but even he got it back. Bottom line. Unless if you have a rock solid business plan. Do not do business in Finland. There is probably no country in the west where businessmen are hated / envied more than in Finland. Did you guys know Finland has closer to 600 000 (about every fourth person) people employed by the state? Little wonder they are sue happy when it comes to potential tax money, they need to suck every last cent out of the people not employed by the state to pay the salaries of those who are.

Rytsölä brothers should have left the country when they still had money. In Finland the taxman ALWAYS sues you for “deliberately misallocating money” if you go broke. The punishments for this vary from suspended sentence to sentences that are worse than those for rapists and pedophiles. Also, the goverment can take away persons right to do business for the rest of your life.

Only case of this being done in US ive heard of is when Michael Milken had his trading licence suspended, but even he got it back.

Bottom line. Unless if you have a rock solid business plan. Do not do business in Finland. There is probably no country in the west where businessmen are hated / envied more than in Finland.

]]> By: Helsinkian http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365449 Helsinkian Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:18:36 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365449 #12 tim73: It would surprise me if there wouldn't be an appeal. #12 tim73: It would surprise me if there wouldn’t be an appeal.

]]> By: Freeridin' Franklin http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365448 Freeridin' Franklin Mon, 07 Jul 2008 09:18:19 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365448 #18: I bet Talvivaara is going to be the next "peoples' stock". #18: I bet Talvivaara is going to be the next “peoples’ stock”.

]]> By: Hank W. http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365440 Hank W. Mon, 07 Jul 2008 01:10:54 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365440 So, I wonder what are the cabbies telling to buy this week... So, I wonder what are the cabbies telling to buy this week…

]]> By: Freeridin' Franklin http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365439 Freeridin' Franklin Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:55:07 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365439 #8: Ah well, my experience with Clinet is from the pre-web days and long-distance call prices don't have a whole lot to do with it. Hell, back in the good ole days you could get a weekend's worth of QSO for 0.52 FIM (IIRC) from HPY. #8: Ah well, my experience with Clinet is from the pre-web days and long-distance call prices don’t have a whole lot to do with it. Hell, back in the good ole days you could get a weekend’s worth of QSO for 0.52 FIM (IIRC) from HPY.

]]> By: Diabolus in musica http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365437 Diabolus in musica Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:09:58 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365437 My point, Hank, was that by that stage people had got to ignoring the first law of the market - when your cab-driver tells you to buy a hot stock is the last possible moment to offload it. My point, Hank, was that by that stage people had got to ignoring the first law of the market - when your cab-driver tells you to buy a hot stock is the last possible moment to offload it.

]]> By: Hank W. http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365436 Hank W. Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:30:30 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365436 The "lotto win" required to live comfortably in Finland of course - same as those guys investing in Wincapita, or you think it was a police investigation they wanted to expect? :lol: The “lotto win” required to live comfortably in Finland of course - same as those guys investing in Wincapita, or you think it was a police investigation they wanted to expect? :lol:

]]> By: Diabolus in musica http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365435 Diabolus in musica Sun, 06 Jul 2008 16:13:43 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365435 "there were quite a lot of your regular “men of the street” that believed the hype - hadn’t learned anything from KOP and Kansallisanti - and burned their fingers quite badly." Well, what did they expect when they bought shares on the strength of recommendations from cab-drivers? Because that's how crazy it got back then - lines around the block for Saunalahden Serveri's IPO like it was Stockmann's spring sale. “there were quite a lot of your regular “men of the street” that believed the hype - hadn’t learned anything from KOP and Kansallisanti - and burned their fingers quite badly.”

Well, what did they expect when they bought shares on the strength of recommendations from cab-drivers? Because that’s how crazy it got back then - lines around the block for Saunalahden Serveri’s IPO like it was Stockmann’s spring sale.

]]> By: Hank W. http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/07/05/the-riot-years/#comment-365433 Hank W. Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:45:30 +0000 http://www.finlandforthought.net/?p=6968#comment-365433 I was fortunately quite poor at the time with no money to invest, but there were quite a lot of your regular "men of the street" that believed the hype - hadn't learned anything from KOP and Kansallisanti - and burned their fingers quite badly. Especially when Sonera came down the tracksuits were swooshing... I don't think though this Finnish Envy was quite as stingy as with the latest pyramid Wincapita thing, but you didn't have much sympathy for the ex-IT millionaires back then. I was fortunately quite poor at the time with no money to invest, but there were quite a lot of your regular “men of the street” that believed the hype - hadn’t learned anything from KOP and Kansallisanti - and burned their fingers quite badly. Especially when Sonera came down the tracksuits were swooshing… I don’t think though this Finnish Envy was quite as stingy as with the latest pyramid Wincapita thing, but you didn’t have much sympathy for the ex-IT millionaires back then.

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