Forum security guards, one step below mall security
Minister of the Interior Anne Holmlund has called for age limits and supervision to protect children and young people on the internet.
Addressing a seminar on the use of the internet by young users, Holmlund noted that on-line message boards are popular among the young. For that reason, she feels that they should have security personnel just like entertainment venues in the offline world do.
LOL!! There’s gazillions of forums out there, how exactly does she expect for the administrators to check people’s ages?? And how about forums outside the country?
This is just so pathetic. No understanding of how the internet works. People like her should not make decisions on technology they do NOT understand.
Comment by sensor — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 11:44 am
He is right. Only communists liberals and other criminals need dicussion forums!
Comment by Nobody — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 11:56 am
Enough parents to whine about their inability to supervise their chrildren’s internet use and you’ve got your clusterfuck with an ass like her at the helm. First Rajamäki and now her. Why not just pick out one of the beggars off the street for the next interior minister.
Comment by Biff Loman — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
It really seems that Jyrki Kasvi is the only one with any kind of knowledge about this magical Internet thing.
Comment by Kennel — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 1:29 pm
It’s not only the internet that Politicians know nothing about.
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
Obviously none of you kids have children. I don’t see the big deal in suggesting that kids shouldn’t be browsing the web about how to make bombs and anal rape. How to go about it is an entirely different issue.
My 8 year old daughter has gotten quite adept at watching torrents I have downloaded. It’s fine when she goes to the Seinfeld season 6 folder and watches but just as easily she found the “Penn and Teller: Bullshit” season 3. My older son told her that the show probably wasn’t suitable for her.
Now I am no prude, nor do I generally allow her to go on the computer without supervision, but if there were some additional technical hurdles set in place that might keep her from stumbling on the latest Chainsaw S&M site, then what is the big deal?
Yeah, you will say “nanny state” and “parents should do the parenting,” but the truth is you don’t really know what your infinitely impressionable chlid is doing most of the time, even though you think you do.
Comment by Dave the Davelator — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 2:21 pm
Now that Phil us earning Big Bucks…perhaps he might consider the possibilty of “breeding”…
That being the possible situation..
I would ask him to take himself 10 years on…What would he suggest to prevent Pikku Phil or Pieni Philapina from “accidentaly” finding
a) A violent Porn site..with an invite to paticipate
or even worse..
b) This web site.
http://www.finlandforthought.net
Comment by karhu — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
#6 “Yeah, you will say “nanny state†and “parents should do the parenting,†but the truth is you don’t really know what your infinitely impressionable child is doing most of the time, even though you think you do.”
Child? What child? How many of these bozos HAVE an 8-year-old? Most of them are struggling to reach that mental age themselves. You hit the nail squarely on the head.
At the same time, Holmlund isn’t really up to the job she’s been given to do. She probably thinks Persian Kitty is an ideal site for kiddies, with a nice cuddly name like that.
Comment by Persian kitty — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 2:42 pm
Forums already have security personnel. They are called moderators and administrators. It’s their job to ban people and remove inappropriate content. What more could you possibly reasonable implement?
Unfortunately, the only possible internet supervision for children comes from their parents. It’s impossible to verify age over the internet. Even though many places basically disallow people under the age of 13 (due to COPPA), it can not be enforced.
This kind of supervision just isn’t possible in the internet. Forum owners wont agree to taking better security measures, if it takes considerable effort, since it will be easier to just relocate outside the country. If you start censoring or put restrictions on Finnish websites like IRC-Galleria, the young will just find other places.
Comment by Rithiur — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 3:27 pm
Also, there is nothing to stop minors from starting their own forums.
One other point, if you can swing it, kids should have their own computer for use. Thats not too difficult with people upgrading every couple years.
Comment by Fred Fry — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
Chainsaw S&M site? Can you give out the URL?
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 5:45 pm
Internet is a series of tubes. Should be easy to supervise.
Comment by Punde — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
Now I am no prude, nor do I generally allow her to go on the computer without supervision, but if there were some additional technical hurdles set in place that might keep her from stumbling on the latest Chainsaw S&M site, then what is the big deal?
Isn’t there software for this already? Like “Net Nanny” etc…?
And how exactly is Anne Holmund going to stop your kids watching donkey porn? She’s not. They’ll always be some country in the world who won’t crack down on donkey porn.
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 8:03 pm
13, phil, you’re confusing the “how” with the “why.”
I don’t know how my virus protection works, but I want it there.
Come back after you have a kid and have this discussion, because this issue just doesn’t affect you or any other childless “libertarians (who vote for democrats
)” in the way it affects people with kids.
I don’t care how, but it would be nice in theory for my daughter to avoid farm animal porn whilst looking for pictures of donkeys, are you in disagreement with this?
Comment by Dave the Davelator — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 8:32 pm
@6 Dave, it is as simple as making a seperate account for you and a seperate account for your daughter. Then she doesn’t find your unsuitable films.
I use Linux, and it is especially good for creating user accounts, where users cannot access other users’ data. Windows also supports it pretty well.
Comment by Yrjö-Kyösti Pörhölä — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 9:03 pm
“@6 Dave, it is as simple as making a seperate account for you and a seperate account for your daughter. Then she doesn’t find your unsuitable films.” -Yrjö
Eh… too much trouble. Especially with XP. And, no, Linux is not the answer, at least for us.
It’s not about my movies, that was just an example… It’s not like Penn and Teller are so threatening, just not suitable for an 8 year old.
There must be some clever way of making it a LITTLE more difficult for kids to find unseemly web sites, isn’t there?
Comment by Dave the Davelator — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 9:36 pm
Yeah, ask your 8-year-old to set up her own account in XP. Takes about 5 minutes…
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 10:13 pm
There must be some clever way of making it a LITTLE more difficult for kids to find unseemly web sites, isn’t there?
It’s a choice between keeping the internet as it is and making your life a bit easier. Sorry, but I’d rather you do the hard work and wield proper parenting than subject finns to the ramifications of a system that is neened to achieve this derailed idea.
Preventing kids from finding their way to these sites would be great if it could be done without screwing things up. But it can’t. Besides, how is this even a problem? There’s a new broken home every day with kids that are guaranteed to grow up twisted. Fix that instead.
Comment by Biff Loman — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 10:28 pm
Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t see the problem with an 8-year-old stumbling on a donkey porn site. I really don’t.
I know that some of you are so worried that your little impressionable ones will eventually try to have sex with these furry quadrupeds, but how realistic do you really think it is? Have you ever seen a donkey’s dick? It’s HUGE! I’m sure it would take many years working in the porn industry to achieve that level of proficiency as a participant. So don’t get excited, because you’ve got plenty of time to intervene
I can tell you that, for me, viewing donkey porn was just as relevant a part of growing up as riding bicycles and building treehouses. No Internet back then, only magazines that kids took to school and showed everyone. Well guess what? I have NO interest in donkey porn these days. NONE whatsoever! In fact, I’d probably find it just as repulsive now as I did back then (I’m more of a dog person, I guess
).
So, what damage will viewing this stuff really do to a child? Just think about how children of previous times in history witnessed criminals impaled on stakes at the city’s gates, suffering for days until they died; public torture; and executions which sent blood squirting onto children in the front rows. These are all horrible things that children regularly witnessed. But these days, we’re soooo concerned that a child might see a *picture* of something. Not the real thing, but a mere picture.
The only difficult part I see, is that a parent might actually have to explain what donkey porn is and why it exists. How hard is it to say, “No, mommy doesn’t do that kind of stuff. Now finish your homework?” Hence, this seems more like an uncomfortable task for parents, rather than something that psychologically damages children.
But for those who still aren’t convinced… And for those who can’t figure out how to use filtering software (or can’t perform the 3-minute task of creating a separate user account on XP), then if you think this (probably well-intentioned) kook Anne Holmlund might actually be right…
Well, I can only hope, for the sake of your precious little ones, that none of their little school peers develops enough artistic talent to actually draw a realistic picture of donkey porn. Because then, you’ll need to rethink your whole strategy about this issue.
Comment by Kristian — Thu, Jan 31st, 2008 @ 10:37 pm
Are you actually telling me that when you grew up you had access to beastiality pornography?
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Fri, Feb 1st, 2008 @ 12:36 am
And by the way, it’s not the creating of the account that is the difficult part, it is the more-frequent crashes and inability to access folders due to account restrictions (and loads of errors and greyed-out icons).
XP is shite, but there is no good software on Linux, at least for me, because the band I’m in use Ableton Live, which is PC or Mac, and I cain’st afford no Mac.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Fri, Feb 1st, 2008 @ 12:40 am
I can tell you that, for me, viewing donkey porn was just as relevant a part of growing up as riding bicycles and building treehouses.
Enough said.
Honestly, Kristian had some good points there. But pictures can really be shocking especially to children. It’s not the biggest threat to their well-being though.
Comment by Pave — Fri, Feb 1st, 2008 @ 1:06 am
Kristian - “Just think about how children of previous times in history witnessed criminals impaled on stakes at the city’s gates, suffering for days until they died; public torture; and executions which sent blood squirting onto children in the front rows. These are all horrible things that children regularly witnessed.”
Well, at least the kids had context when seeing it in person and having the crowd, or their parents, clue them in on how the witch is being burned and why. It wasn’t like they were watching it on the Disney Channel. The internet has absolutely none of that and while I probably wouldn’t freak out about the kid finding porn, I’d want to be around to add context. But there are a lot of things on the net that you haven’t even imagined that are so fucked up that as a parent you’d be a dumbass not to at least try to buffer them from the raw feed. I’d rather have my kid go to the gladiator ring and cheer for death than stumble across some of the extreme weird shit I’ve come across at times.
I gave my 12 year old niece a laptop that her parents don’t let her take to her room and they keep an eye on what she’s doing. You have to be a parent and you have to be prepared to live with this sewer that is the internet.
Comment by hfb — Fri, Feb 1st, 2008 @ 2:24 am
Dave the Revelator: “XP is shite, but there is no good software on Linux, at least for me, because the band I’m in use Ableton Live”
The closest thing I see is the Jacklab distribution, but music production isn’t my thing, so I have no idea if it’s what you’d use. Looks interesting though. Lots of software included.
http://jacklab.net/jacklaborg/english/?JackLab_Audio_Distribution
http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories#JackLab
Comment by Kristian — Fri, Feb 1st, 2008 @ 6:50 am
hfb: “I probably wouldn’t freak out about the kid finding porn, I’d want to be around to add context.”
Yes, such as: “If you don’t eat your dinner, then you’ll be on the first plane to Tijuana!” That type of context will ensure you have the best behaved child in town. It’s better than telling those tired old stories about the Huns, don’t you think?
Comment by Kristian — Fri, Feb 1st, 2008 @ 7:05 am
Dave the Revelator: “Are you actually telling me that when you grew up you had access to beastiality pornography?”
Of course. Anything was attainable from the hardcore shops, but usually someone’s older brother bought it. We just got the leftovers. You have to realize that it’s not as if donkey sex was only invented after the Internet became popular.
Incidentally, when we were about 11-, 12-, and 13-years-old, my best friend from Bremen and I would sometimes accompany his dad on short business day-trips. The family owns one of the bigger corporations in Germany; dad was the ‘big boss’ during that time. He drove us through the sex districts of places like Hanover.
He would even stop, roll-down the window of his Mercedes, talk to hookers on the street and then ask me and my friend if he could arrange some action for us. He was only doing it for kicks though; we never though he was really serious…although, looking back, we now think he might have been serious. We were too afraid to accept his offer though
Comment by Kristian — Fri, Feb 1st, 2008 @ 7:44 am
Slik Willie and colorful George Clinton,hot on the trail of smokin blonde intern porno websites,make a stop at Stockmans internet coffee spot…
slik Willie: there should be some eye-action online at Stockmans coffee spot…clik clik clikkkk..clik clik clik..clik…clik…DAMN!…dey got my fav-o-rite porno site blocked…i be jones’n for some eye candy…
colorful George:See if you can link up with Monica’s server,she got
good pics encrypted…whip out your password,DOG…BOW-WOW-WOW!
slik Willie:clik. clik.clik…clik clik clik clik clik….Damn!…NO GO Zone,…foiled again…what up wit dat!? Stockmans keeps blocking me out… SATANA PERKELE!
colorful George:Dig it man,lets go up escalater to womens lengerie store and fantasize over the mannequins…
slik willie:wait a minute…Bingo…lookee here dog…here is the site i heard about on de street!….LOOOOK!…dis babe called Havis Amanda is smokin’…and she got only a funny white hat on and it look like a drinking party be happening!…Maybe dem four guys wit no clothes on outside de window can tell us which way de party is at!
colorful George:smart move Slik Willie!
Comment by infinndel — Fri, Feb 1st, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
“Yes, such as: “If you don’t eat your dinner, then you’ll be on the first plane to Tijuana!†That type of context will ensure you have the best behaved child in town. It’s better than telling those tired old stories about the Huns, don’t you think?”
Uh, no…besides, at 14 months and 30 pounds, I don’t have to push her to eat.
By context I mean that a small child viewing, say, some rather tame bondage stuff…I’d rather be there to explain what is she is seeing than turn a blind eye and either hope she figures it out on her own or stupidly think that some network software is going to protect her from seeing it at all.
Comment by hfb — Fri, Feb 1st, 2008 @ 9:12 pm
infinndel - Get one of your raps published on IS and I’ll buy you a ticket to Helsinki and all the Lapin Kulta you can drink.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sat, Feb 2nd, 2008 @ 2:25 am
hfb: “By context I mean that a small child viewing, say, some rather tame bondage stuff…I’d rather be there to explain what is she is seeing”
To be honest, I’d find myself at a loss explaining that one to a child, even if it’s only tame. Explaining donkey porn would be easier
Comment by Kristian — Sat, Feb 2nd, 2008 @ 4:54 pm
Ok Kristian, I’m five years old. What is that lady doing with the donkey?
P.s. Why?
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