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	<title>Comments on: Online Poker the Finnish way: you win or your money back</title>
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	<description>Politics, current events, culture - From Finland &#38; United States</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: company reliastar of insurance life</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-369496</link>
		<dc:creator>company reliastar of insurance life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 21:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>rating reliastar life insurance company &lt;a href="http://www.disturbed1.com/users/companyinsurancelifereliastar" rel="nofollow"&gt;rating company reliastar insurance life&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rating reliastar life insurance company <a href="http://www.disturbed1.com/users/companyinsurancelifereliastar" rel="nofollow">rating company reliastar insurance life</a></p>
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		<title>By: Hank W.</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355197</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, despite the assclownery of the government, which I never deny; pray note this is just a waste of tax monies... its a survey for a proposition. And the proposition needs to go through parliamentand get approved, and then signed by the president. Unless it is deemed a constitutional law by the constitutional college, where it needs to be approved by two parliaments. Anyhow, to go through the parliament colleges the law can taka anything from 2months tro two years, so I wouldn't be worried right now. This is what we Finns call "kiva tietÃƒÂ¤ÃƒÂ¤"...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, despite the assclownery of the government, which I never deny; pray note this is just a waste of tax monies&#8230; its a survey for a proposition. And the proposition needs to go through parliamentand get approved, and then signed by the president. Unless it is deemed a constitutional law by the constitutional college, where it needs to be approved by two parliaments. Anyhow, to go through the parliament colleges the law can taka anything from 2months tro two years, so I wouldn&#8217;t be worried right now. This is what we Finns call &#8220;kiva tietÃƒÂ¤ÃƒÂ¤&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: tim73</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355196</link>
		<dc:creator>tim73</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"Slot machines are everywhere in FUNLAND,as if Finland is an expansive casino."

Yes, there are over 16 000 slot machines scattered around the country. That is a lot for 5,3 million people. Pretty much every kiosk, supermarket and gas station has a few of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Slot machines are everywhere in FUNLAND,as if Finland is an expansive casino.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, there are over 16 000 slot machines scattered around the country. That is a lot for 5,3 million people. Pretty much every kiosk, supermarket and gas station has a few of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355195</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355195</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Poker is great entertainment. For the 11$ in my example, you usually get around 0,5-1,5 hours of play, perhaps over 2 hours if you are successful. ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not much even if you lose

RAY games take your money much faster.&lt;/i&gt;

This is another case where state causes more problems than good. It is ironic that the "Ministry of Social Affairs and Health" writes this new law.

I guess if government claims "health" and "social reasons" then it sounds more legitimate than if they tell the real reason: to protect the state monopoly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Poker is great entertainment. For the 11$ in my example, you usually get around 0,5-1,5 hours of play, perhaps over 2 hours if you are successful. ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not much even if you lose</p>
<p>RAY games take your money much faster.</i></p>
<p>This is another case where state causes more problems than good. It is ironic that the &#8220;Ministry of Social Affairs and Health&#8221; writes this new law.</p>
<p>I guess if government claims &#8220;health&#8221; and &#8220;social reasons&#8221; then it sounds more legitimate than if they tell the real reason: to protect the state monopoly.</p>
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		<title>By: infinndel</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355194</link>
		<dc:creator>infinndel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355194</guid>
		<description>A couple of observations of Finland that bring a smile to my face:
During my many escapades in Finland,I would venture into a convenient...KKK...(!!!) supermarket..(where were the employees wearing white sheets and hoods!?)...ROTFLMAO!..I don't think this supermarket would cut it in good ol' amerikkka...there would be outrage from certain groups of people,maybe leading to riots!
In these "KKK" supermarket/OLUT dispensers,waiting at the end of the checkout counters was a bunch of ONE ARMED BANDITS/wallet emptying
monsters...ready and willing to suck up remaining MARKA/EUROS after buying rediculously expensive food and OLUT4A...Slot machines are everywhere in FUNLAND,as if Finland is an expansive casino.
Even in the  malls in Finland I saw mini gambling stores with a bunch of slot machines..
On the Europa,Symphony,Serenade ferrys,and even Nordic Jet high speed ferry,many opportunities to get drunk and flush your tourist money down one armed bandits abound!!  Have fun, get drunk and lose your shirt gambling you American dog tourists, seems to be the strategy
that Suomi wants to inflict!
If that does not make you happy,there are the numerous THAI massage parlors in Helsinki and Tampere to sooooth your aching wallet.FINLAND is indeed FUNLAND!   ;-)   ...WATCH YOUR WALLET!   :-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of observations of Finland that bring a smile to my face:<br />
During my many escapades in Finland,I would venture into a convenient&#8230;KKK&#8230;(!!!) supermarket..(where were the employees wearing white sheets and hoods!?)&#8230;ROTFLMAO!..I don&#8217;t think this supermarket would cut it in good ol&#8217; amerikkka&#8230;there would be outrage from certain groups of people,maybe leading to riots!<br />
In these &#8220;KKK&#8221; supermarket/OLUT dispensers,waiting at the end of the checkout counters was a bunch of ONE ARMED BANDITS/wallet emptying<br />
monsters&#8230;ready and willing to suck up remaining MARKA/EUROS after buying rediculously expensive food and OLUT4A&#8230;Slot machines are everywhere in FUNLAND,as if Finland is an expansive casino.<br />
Even in the  malls in Finland I saw mini gambling stores with a bunch of slot machines..<br />
On the Europa,Symphony,Serenade ferrys,and even Nordic Jet high speed ferry,many opportunities to get drunk and flush your tourist money down one armed bandits abound!!  Have fun, get drunk and lose your shirt gambling you American dog tourists, seems to be the strategy<br />
that Suomi wants to inflict!<br />
If that does not make you happy,there are the numerous THAI massage parlors in Helsinki and Tampere to sooooth your aching wallet.FINLAND is indeed FUNLAND!   <img src='http://www.finlandforthought.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   &#8230;WATCH YOUR WALLET!   <img src='http://www.finlandforthought.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: philtard</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355192</link>
		<dc:creator>philtard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355192</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately this is the classic finnish way: some people have mental problems, lets treat the whole nation.

The idea is retarded, but luckily can't pass since we're in EU and they will say to stop this shit if it goes anywhere forward.

I think usually when you have a mental problem and you are harmful to to yourself and your family you get sent to a institution or at least in same way your rights as a person are restricted inevitably.

Unfortunately this is of course evil-nazi -thinking(tm), because naturally we all have to suffer from the ill of others collectively.
Which is the prime reason for example alcoholics get 0 sympathy from me(because they said if I pay taxes on booze everythings just dandy and I don't have to fucking care).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately this is the classic finnish way: some people have mental problems, lets treat the whole nation.</p>
<p>The idea is retarded, but luckily can&#8217;t pass since we&#8217;re in EU and they will say to stop this shit if it goes anywhere forward.</p>
<p>I think usually when you have a mental problem and you are harmful to to yourself and your family you get sent to a institution or at least in same way your rights as a person are restricted inevitably.</p>
<p>Unfortunately this is of course evil-nazi -thinking(tm), because naturally we all have to suffer from the ill of others collectively.<br />
Which is the prime reason for example alcoholics get 0 sympathy from me(because they said if I pay taxes on booze everythings just dandy and I don&#8217;t have to fucking care).</p>
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		<title>By: Freeridin' Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355189</link>
		<dc:creator>Freeridin' Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355189</guid>
		<description>Rich:
"Are you actually denying there are any cases where individuals become compulsively dependent on gambling?"

Well, trying to combat addictions by unenforcable laws hasn't proven to be very succesful so far. Take the neverending holy war on some drugs and the Finnish alcohol monopoly, for instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich:<br />
&#8220;Are you actually denying there are any cases where individuals become compulsively dependent on gambling?&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, trying to combat addictions by unenforcable laws hasn&#8217;t proven to be very succesful so far. Take the neverending holy war on some drugs and the Finnish alcohol monopoly, for instance.</p>
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		<title>By: Pave</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355186</link>
		<dc:creator>Pave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355186</guid>
		<description>T@1: &lt;i&gt;ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s ok that everybody loses a little, such as in RAY games. But what, someone actually winning and winning big when a great majority loses a little money! No way, they want nobody to win.&lt;/i&gt;

We have Lotto though, big wins and a lot of losers.

I think the main reason behind this ridiculous suggestion for a law is that the Finnish gambling organizations decided not to launch their own online poker site when the time was ripe and now they're losing "customers" to foreign businesses. The Swedish government's poker site is now in the top 10 of most popular sites in the world (according to http://www.pokerscout.com/).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T@1: <i>ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s ok that everybody loses a little, such as in RAY games. But what, someone actually winning and winning big when a great majority loses a little money! No way, they want nobody to win.</i></p>
<p>We have Lotto though, big wins and a lot of losers.</p>
<p>I think the main reason behind this ridiculous suggestion for a law is that the Finnish gambling organizations decided not to launch their own online poker site when the time was ripe and now they&#8217;re losing &#8220;customers&#8221; to foreign businesses. The Swedish government&#8217;s poker site is now in the top 10 of most popular sites in the world (according to <a href="http://www.pokerscout.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.pokerscout.com/</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355183</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355183</guid>
		<description>Are you actually denying there are any cases where individuals become compulsively dependent on gambling? That would fly in the face of most medical research. Not that ignoring facts would be in any way new for contributors here...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you actually denying there are any cases where individuals become compulsively dependent on gambling? That would fly in the face of most medical research. Not that ignoring facts would be in any way new for contributors here&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kristian</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355173</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355173</guid>
		<description>"&lt;i&gt;cc companies seem to have big time-windows for reversing charges.&lt;/i&gt;"

Or if these laws get passed, they could be prevented from transferring the money in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>cc companies seem to have big time-windows for reversing charges.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Or if these laws get passed, they could be prevented from transferring the money in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristian</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355170</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355170</guid>
		<description>Yes, but the foreign gambling companies would obviously block purchases via credit card.  After all, they wouldn't be able to collect the debt, since those cc companies seem to have big time-windows for reversing charges.

But cash sent via post should be ok from the gambling operations' standpoint, right? They could simply credit the sum to the gamblers' respective online accounts. Wouldn't that be the best workaround?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but the foreign gambling companies would obviously block purchases via credit card.  After all, they wouldn&#8217;t be able to collect the debt, since those cc companies seem to have big time-windows for reversing charges.</p>
<p>But cash sent via post should be ok from the gambling operations&#8217; standpoint, right? They could simply credit the sum to the gamblers&#8217; respective online accounts. Wouldn&#8217;t that be the best workaround?</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Fry</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355168</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Fry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355168</guid>
		<description>Kristian, I suspect that you can't play unless you put the money in up-front.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristian, I suspect that you can&#8217;t play unless you put the money in up-front.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristian</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355167</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355167</guid>
		<description>"&lt;i&gt;This will be interesting to try to apply this law on jurisdictions that arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t under Finnish law. &lt;/i&gt;"

I think it means that foreign gambling operations can't sue Finnish residents (or their cc companies) for their gambling debts in Finnish courts.  Generally, I believe you are right in that it's nationally discriminatory; the same way Veikkaus and RAY are.

But the state will try to sidestep EU law for as long as possible, while collecting profits in the meantime.  These nanny state actions are nothing more than protectionism for the state monopolies.

Just curious, what would prevent gambling operations from accepting advance cash payments sent via post?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>This will be interesting to try to apply this law on jurisdictions that arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t under Finnish law. </i>&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it means that foreign gambling operations can&#8217;t sue Finnish residents (or their cc companies) for their gambling debts in Finnish courts.  Generally, I believe you are right in that it&#8217;s nationally discriminatory; the same way Veikkaus and RAY are.</p>
<p>But the state will try to sidestep EU law for as long as possible, while collecting profits in the meantime.  These nanny state actions are nothing more than protectionism for the state monopolies.</p>
<p>Just curious, what would prevent gambling operations from accepting advance cash payments sent via post?</p>
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		<title>By: winter Ã¢â‚¬Å“Yea, Proton Power, now in remissionÃ¢â‚¬Â</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355166</link>
		<dc:creator>winter Ã¢â‚¬Å“Yea, Proton Power, now in remissionÃ¢â‚¬Â</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355166</guid>
		<description>A feel good law. Not enforable...but but we feel good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A feel good law. Not enforable&#8230;but but we feel good.</p>
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		<title>By: a lamb with no guiding light</title>
		<link>http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/comment-page-1/#comment-355162</link>
		<dc:creator>a lamb with no guiding light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.finlandforthought.net/2008/01/18/online-poker-the-finnish-way-you-win-or-your-money-back/#comment-355162</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It will just increase the number of gamblers, if they reduce the risk of losing.&lt;/i&gt;

The goal of the proposal is to encourage on-line poker rooms to bar Finnish would-be customers. Whether that works depends on whether Finnish poker players really could get their losses back. (Of course, if you're certain to get your losses back, the risk has been reduced to the point that you're no longer gambling.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It will just increase the number of gamblers, if they reduce the risk of losing.</i></p>
<p>The goal of the proposal is to encourage on-line poker rooms to bar Finnish would-be customers. Whether that works depends on whether Finnish poker players really could get their losses back. (Of course, if you&#8217;re certain to get your losses back, the risk has been reduced to the point that you&#8217;re no longer gambling.)</p>
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