Found a few ripoffs during my recent Christmas travels
@ 12:01 am I recently visited the USA. I found some things there that are ripoffs, and found some prices there that show me that some things here in Finland are ripoffs.
 Property taxes in the USA can be around 1% of the taxation value of the property per year. Imagine trying to make money on investments in property with that as a constraint. The problem is that the counties and cities who take that taxation are very limited on ways that they can collect tax for the services they provide. And they are the ones who provide most of the services that people use everyday like schools, school tranportation, medical care, libraries, etc. However, collection of taxes on property can be seen as being in conflict with human rights. Owning land does not necessarily indicate the ability to pay and property prices have skyrocketed in recent years. Some people in the US have been forced out of their homes of off their land because their property tax has become too high. The way counties typically collect taxes in the USA using property taxes is wrong and must be changed. In Finland, the municipalities collect what is called “äyrit”, which is a flat percentage of your income, ranging from 16 to about 20 percent. In my opinion, the Finnish system wins, except in the cases where the municipality collects the tax but does not provide the services or provides substandard services keeping people illegally waiting in line for necessary medical procedures, for example.
A new basic chainsaw of a known brand, Poulan, was 107 dollars in Walmart. That is about 75-80 Euros. I have never seen a chainsaw for under 150 EUR in Finland. Rumour has it that Hong Kong has them for 99. It is probably from some brand like “Leaping Tiger” or something similar. I have to go check that out.
One of the worst ripoffs, and perhaps one of the most dishonest, is the price of rechargeable batteries. They are twice as expensive or more in Finland. A pack of 4 Energizer rechargeable AA batteries is under 10 dollars in Walmart. Here they are 15-20 EUR a pack, so 2-3 times more expensive. So next time you make an order through the Internet or travel, don’t forget to throw in a pack or two of rechargeable batteries. Nowadays, you can even get pre-charged rechargeable batteries that hold their charge. A pack of Kodak pre-charged rechargeable AAs was about 7-8 dollars. Rechargeable batteries can be recharged 300-500 times, and will save you a lot of money in the long run, even if you do pay the ripoff Finnish price. It is much more green to recharge your batteries 300-500 times than to buy at least that many packs of disposable batteries. Also disposable alkaline batteries are a ripoff in Finand, but not such a drastic one.
While I was there in the USA, I needed to travel to an island that was 8 miles offland. The only way to get there was on a postal delivery boat that goes there twice a day, every mail delivery day. In order to ride the boat that goes there anyway, I needed to pay 16 dollars per trip. So I paid 32 dollars to get to and from an island, 16 miles total. That was a dishonest ripoff, in my opinion. In Finland, the Ã…land ferries cost me around 50 marks to ride with my car. They are free with a bicycle or by foot. I don’t expect it has increased much since then. And that trip was much longer than 8 miles. The Ã…land ferries are a good working part of the the Ã…land transportation infrastructure that people actually use a lot.
“One of the worst ripoffs, and perhaps one of the most dishonest, is the price of rechargeable batteries.”
You just discovered the biggest scheme & price fixing ever! As your comment suggests, the price fixing was “dishonest”, i.e premediated! So the EU must and surely will hand out hefty fines to Finnish retailers now for this injust ripp-off of Finnish citizens.
Thank you so much, Sirkuspelle, for opening my eyes to this injustice!
Comment by Screwdriver — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 12:28 am
So a rip off is a tax system, that goes after land owners and not tax from salery.
except that we do have both. The state and the Federal are both on the tax from salery boat, with the local governments getting school taxes from the local land owners. I still did not get the point of this rip off, when its just ways to get taxes, like your car tax is?
Also in the USA, boats are usually private, so a market drives the ticket price, not some ones thinking of what a fair price should be. If you did not like the price, use your feet and swim.
Finnally you saw the evil Walmart in action, Why no bleeding heart liberal dribble on the workers being unhappy selling you those cheep batteries? Now thats the rip off, they are happy.
“make money on investments in property” is a business factor. When one runs a slum place for rent, you must add in the taxes you pay the local government into the rent. It really is that simple, you pay it, but in reality you pass it on to the renter, plus a fee if the market allows for it.
Now just what is the rip off again? Our low taxes or your high consumer goods?
Comment by Winter "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 12:30 am
Poulan? Neverheard of that
Yeah, you might get some Einhell for 99 or 89, but those are toys. Sopme proper brand like Stihl, Jonsered or Husqvarna the lower end is at 150 on sale.
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 12:42 am
One year ago I bought a toy solar panel to recharge batteries. Keep in touch for Return-on-investiment.
Comment by strudel — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 1:03 am
Washington State runs ferries here as there are several islands in the Puget Sound. Driving around the large body of water would take too long in some cases, also. I think it’s $10 for a passenger and car each direction. Passengers only pay going westbound, and it’s like $5 a head or something similar, whether they are in a car or not.
Comment by PhoneBoy — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 2:41 am
Welcome back, Sirkuspelle!
winter: “but in reality you pass it on to the renter”
Same with capital gains tax (voittovero). It only increases costs for the renter—and increases costs for new buyers. I consider it a ‘jealousy tax.’ As we know, those never work as
intended.
Regarding chainsaws, I still have a Craftsman that I bought years-ago. Generally, any appliances, computer equipment, power tools, etc., cost about 50% more in Finland than in the US (when considering purchasing power).
http://www.nextag.com/
Comment by Kristian — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 5:38 am
What island? How many people live there? What is the tax/political/sociolinguistic context here?
I think winter said it best for all you wacko-libs there when he said, if you don’t like it, use your feet and swim!
So if a private monopoly has a boat on the sealine and you can’t do anything about it overcharging you, then you have no option. With the government, maybe you can vote them out or protest.
Could it be that Wal-Mart, Home Depot and co. pay their workers much, much less fairly and charge less for batteries and assorted goods?
It could also be that importing goods like chainsaws and batteries at no tariffs leads to a gigantic trade deficit with places like China. Is that really responsible and in the best long-term interest of a country? Of a country like Finland? Think, damn you, think!
Agree with you on the the taxes though. Check this gem out: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071225/D8TOKT9G1.html
So in the low-tax-paradise-no-welfare glorious country, retirees are given the “opportunity” to work to pay off their taxes at $7/hour!
Eliminate it or make it progressive and a percentage. Stop invading countries, give that money to communities to build schools. Hire teachers, not soldiers.
Comment by Herkku — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
“So if a private monopoly has a boat”
No such thing as a private monopoly, unless government grants it privilege.
“With the government, maybe you can vote them out or protest.”
You really can’t, unless the government official you are voting for/against specializes only in ferry transportation.
Generally speaking, you vote for a ‘package deal’ when electing government officials. If cheap ferry transportation isn’t part of the package, then you are out of luck.
Also, in this case, you are suggesting that non-ferry users subsidize those who use it. Is that always the best case?
The money doesn’t just come from a large bucket somewhere, you know. It actually comes from other tax payers.
“So in the low-tax-paradise-no-welfare glorious country, retirees are given the “opportunity†to work to pay off their taxes at $7/hour!”
But you forgot to mention that those people in Greenburgh pay the 3rd highest property taxes in the nation. Do you think everybody in America pays 12K annually?!
“trade deficit with places like China. Is that really responsible and in the best long-term interest of a country?”
Absolutely. Get the cheapest- and highest quality- products available—always. Use those products to create more value for yourself and society.
“Stop invading countries, give that money to communities to build schools.”
Yes, or better yet: don’t take that money away from them in the first place.
Comment by Kristian — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
Kristian:
“No such thing as a private monopoly, unless government grants it privilege.”
Wow. I’m speechless. Then again, this kind of statement is to be expected from the flat Earth crowd.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
Things have truly gone bad for Suomi and F.F.T…..
http://badnewsfrom-finland.blogspot.com/
Comment by infinndel — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 7:37 pm
WITH FREE TRADE, CHRISTMAS WOULD BE EVEN MERRIER:
But now I have received an even better Christmas card. On the cover there is a Christmas tree and a lot of wrapped gifts, and it says:
“Christmas joy knows no borders…”
And when I open it, it says:
…unfortunately Christmas gifts do”
And the gifts are opened and the card details the tariffs the EU puts on the goods:
Tennis racket, USA: 4.7%
Ski boots, Canada: 8%
LCD TV, Korea: 14%
Sneakers, Hong Kong: 16.9%
Low energy light bulb, China: 66%
The sender, who promises to fight against these Christmas spoilers, is Christoffer Fjellner, member of the European Parliament.
http://www.johannorberg.net/?page=displayblog&month=12&year=2007#2495
Comment by joone — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 10:07 pm
Husqvarna chainsaw+1case Lapin Kulta=Finn fun
Comment by infinndel — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 10:38 pm
Oh, just look at online stores. You can find the same shit sold at 1/2 price…
I remember when I bought my DVD player. It was in 2002 or so, still in the “markka” times. I looked at what had gotten good reviews… Kruunuradio sold it at 2999,- Then UI looked at On/Off and Veikon Kone, they had ‘previously 2799 now 2300 and previously 2500 now 1999… Then I went to Markantalo, and they were selling the same at 1199. I asked if it was a sale, and they said they’d been selling it for that price for 3 months…
So it is not the stupid one who asks…
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 11:03 pm
Is Microsoft not in effect a monopoly? A monopoly that tried to monopolize other markets as well?
I don’t recall the government giving them a licence to exploit the consumer and destroy smaller companies unchecked… in fact, the government(s) sued them and fined them.
So, let’s not grant freedom to the oppressed corporate freedom fighters just yet…
Comment by Herkku — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 1:44 am
Is Microsoft not in effect a monopoly? A monopoly that tried to monopolize other markets as well?
I don’t recall the government giving them a license to exploit the consumer and destroy smaller companies unchecked… in fact, the government(s) sued them and fined them.
So, let’s not grant freedom to the oppressed corporate freedom fighters just yet…
Comment by Herkku — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 1:44 am
Sorry for the double post, tried to corekt e spelink misteak.
Comment by Herkku — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 1:45 am
And even the better - Sirkuspelle - look at the Norwegians and their “Hurtigruten”… and how every sheepshagger on a remote island gets the service. And then we can start and go whining…
Comment by Hank W. — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 1:57 am
Herkku: Is Microsoft not in effect a monopoly?
I dunno, I’m using SuSE Linux
Actually, whereas I initially cheered both, the US court’s and EU court’s decisions, respectively, now I’m not so sure they were right.
At those points in time, the industry was ripe for a major paradigm shift. People were tired of Micro$oft’s restrictive licensing, not to mention all the viruses that attacked Windows systems regularly.
But by temporarily pacifying consumers and competitors, those judgments might have prevented a clear shift from occurring. It’s too bad, because demand existed; even developing countries’ governments were rejecting M$ in favor of Linux.
Regulation doesn’t always produce its intended effect…then again, maybe this time it did from the government’s pov; just consider how tightly M$ and the US government are ‘bundled.’
The ‘feds’ wouldn’t want to let that industry become *too* decentralized, would they?
Comment by Kristian — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 6:36 am
Surely Wal-Mart’s labor practices would not be tolerated in Finland
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 11:35 am
The only place to buy rechargeables is Biltema at the moment, I can’t figure out how Prismas and Clas Ohlsons can keep the prices on them two or even three times higher. What’s the point?
Computer equipment is not 50% more expensive here but rather somewhat cheaper than in rest of Euorope or at least used to be a few years back when I was into building them things.
My father bought a Chinese chainsaw from Honk Kong for less than 100 and says it’s good value for money for a non-serious user.
In general the Walmart prices won’t happen in Finland ever. Well, not until we get those workers treated the same way as in the USA. Did you know that only in Finland and Sweden the workers of McDonlad’s are unionized, no wonder their salaries and other benefits are ridiculously good.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 11:48 am
“Computer equipment is not 50% more expensive here but rather somewhat cheaper than in rest of Euorope ”
Huh??????? I’d say the Finnish price is about 10%- to 15%- higher than the EU price. But that’s only because Finnish retailers are forced to compete against online distributors from abroad—they simply match the price, and then add what it would cost to ship one unit….maybe drop the price by 2% so it looks plausible to the Finnish customer. That system is made possible thanks to a, hight-tax, non-dynamic Finnish-style local economy. No competition.
BTW, the 50%, that I mentioned above, is in reference to the US price.
http://www.verkkokauppa.com/
http://www.preisvergleich.de/
http://www.nextag.com/
“only in Finland and Sweden the workers of McDonlad’s are unionized”
Yes, and each purchase costs about 1- to 2-euros more in Finland. Despite the ripoff, it’s still the best food deal in that price category.
Consider that Subway costs nearly double the German price. I mean, 4.50e for a tiny 15cm sandwich with 3-meatballs?! Same thing for 2.50e in Germany.
I guess part of the difference is that Finland still pretends those are real jobs. In other countries, those are considered ’student jobs.’ And rightly so.
Comment by Kristian — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
It was common knowledge a couple of years back that the Finnish prices indeed were among the cheapest in Europe. I think it had to do with the strong IT penetration. I don’t know about today, quite a few of those small-time shops have disappeared since. The US prices are of course ridiculously cheap because dollar is so ridiculously cheap.
Those MacDonald’s and Walmart’s jobs are very real for many people in the USA, certainly more so than in Finland where more youngsters educate themselves further. Or in most other countries, for that matter. Stop kidding yourself and you’ll start making more sense.
And interestingly enough, you’ll get often the same Mäkkäri deals here as in other parts of Europe. I don’t know how they make it … perhaps they don’t, MacDonald’s isn’t doing great here in Finland.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
I won’t spend my time trying to make a comprehensive comparison, but here are a few examples from the home page of Hintaseuranta.fi:
Club 3D GeForce 8800 GT 512 is €217.
At Preisvergleich.de it’s €260.
Acer TravelMate 5520G seems to be €650 in Finland and
€779 in Deutschland.
Let’s take the printer I bought a while back, Canon Pixma MP610 is €169 here (€30 down from what I paid, sigh). From Germany I could get it–hey it’s cheaper–for €155. But that’s without delivery.
Anyway, I’ve done some shopping both online and offline and it’s possible to get some digital stuff cheaper outside Finland, for example the low-end MP3 players were very expensive till lately. Most of the time, though, it’s not worth the effort. Particularly when the prices happen to be lower here which they quite often are.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
winter: but in reality you pass it on to the renter
The renter has the right to file for “their” part of the property tax paid in the unit they live in, however, most people are unaware of this.
Comment by Unit — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 2:22 pm
Club 3D GeForce 8800 GT 512 is €217. At Preisvergleich.de it’s €260.
Fair enough. Maybe I didn’t give you a good link. I apologize. So try the one below. It’s about the same price for this particular product (8800 series is relatively new and easy sell for retailers), but try a wider range of products and see the difference.
Generally, I think Finnish retailers are willing to eat the loss on popular, high-volume, big ticket items. But they rape you on all the less significant stuff. I guess they have to.
221,13€ and upward:
http://www.ciao.de/Club_3D_8800GT__7737141
“Acer TravelMate 5520G seems to be €650 in Finland and €779 in Deutschland.”
597€ and upward:
http://www.ciao.de/Acer_TravelMate_5520_401G16_Turion_64_X2_TL_58_1_9_GHz_15_4_TFT__2688395
“Those MacDonald’s and Walmart’s jobs… ”
Ok, forget about the US. So you think it’s justifiable that Finland’s prices for take-out food are by far the highest in Europe? —not US, I mean Europe. And yes, McD’s does take a loss in Finland, despite being more expensive than elsewhere.
Comment by Kristian — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 2:41 pm
Those low-end MP3 weren’t expensive, they didn’t exist. Their quality used to be so poor that selling them wasn’t worth the hassle. Online shops like Pixma could afford selling them because their refund system is automated … which doesn’t mean easy for the customer, by the way. (On the contrary, it’s clearly geared towards making customers to quit asking for the refund at some point of the complicated and time-consuming process. Disclaimer: I finally got my money back but after the third or fourth time I had to contact them I promised to remember to tell about my experiences to everybody who wants to listen, sorry for your time.)
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
So you think it’s justifiable that Finland’s prices for take-out food are by far the highest in Europe?
Hohhoijaa, siis for whom? An average Helsinkian? A MacDonald’s employee? A Finnish engineer? An average Russian? An illegal Turk?
Go to Norway if you want to see some really high prices.
The S-group’s restaurant monopoly in many smaller towns should be driven down tough.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 3:43 pm
“Hohhoijaa, siis for whom?”
For anyone. Finland’s economic system with its inherent overpricing benefits no one. Not the worker, not the student, not the poor immigrant, not the bum on the park bench.
“The S-group’s restaurant monopoly in many smaller towns should be driven down tough.”
So you want to combat a monopoly created by the government- and a centralized economic system- with even more government and more of the same economic system?
If so, then good luck! Can’t wait to see those results
Comment by Kristian — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
For anyone.
That’s idiotic.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 5:05 pm