Finland aces PISA again!
@ 6:46 am 
Finland’s 15-year-olds are incredible! They are really some of the smartest teenagers in the world, and by my observations they are much more open and worldly than their parents who lived under difficult ideology-shaped conditions in the shadow of the Soviet Union. So what makes these kids such academic high achievers?
Having been born Finnish, I like to attribute it to genetics…but when reality descends upon my momentary loftiness, I realize that maybe the cold climate and boring lifestyle is more to credit. It makes studying so much easier than anywhere else. The lack of distractions is actually one of my own favorite reasons for spending time in Finland; I can really get some work done!
Even Finland’s recent mass murderer in Jokela was a studious sort. By now we all know that his readings included Nietzsche, Kant, Huxley… I won’t delve into any dangerous psychological analysis here—some short exposure to Pavlov many-years-ago, and my mouth still waters every time I hear a bell ring.
However, I do find it interesting that another one of his favorites was Plato. In those rare moments when Plato wasn’t pegging young boys in the ass, he was busy arranging the ’state’ into three discernible parts: philosopher-kings, soldiers and merchants. Generally, philosopher-kings rule, soldiers protect, and merchants ensure the economic viability of the state.
You can find Finland’s philosopher-kings in places like Espoo. They are the ruling elite who vacation in sunny locations around the globe (many rule corporations, not the state itself; I don’t think Plato had enough foresight to envision corporations as an extension of the state) and naturally there are plenty of soldiers everywhere, too. But where is the merchant class in Finland?
Of course it exists, but its membership is small. The post-war years saw a rise in collectivist thinking, punishingly-high taxation and socialist economic structures, leading to an environment of discrimination—and possibly even human rights abuses which plague the country to this day. Generally speaking, anyone who aspired to become successful sought safer abode for himself abroad.
It’s a tragedy, because these are precisely the people who would invest their time and talents into productive enterprises, and thereby provide jobs for everyone else. Instead, Finland now has a lackluster and overpriced domestic economy, and is highly dependent on foreign employers. It’s too bad for today’s PISA conquerors. Despite their hard work, when considering purchasing power, they can look forward to being among the lowest-paid smart people in Europe.
I think the fact that one can learn to read the Finnish language in few hours and additionally the logical layout of the language helps the Finns considerably in these types of tests and overall. English and most other languages require years of reading, spelling, and grammar to become fluent. I don’t think there is “spelling” or “reading” as a subject matter in the Finnish language as young child progresses further into schooling. It’s not needed with such a straight forward language.
Logical language aside, many Finns are very bright.
Comment by maaksalaatikko — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 7:33 am
Everybody just shut up you dont nothing about real reasons behind PISA results This writing is no more than ideological ranting about high taxes of Finland or something.
I am waiting what clever bullshit coming to comments section maybe horosscopes-
Comment by Ahas — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 8:00 am
The reason behind PISA result is GOD.
Comment by Ahas — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 8:06 am
It is well known that social mobility is highest in the West in the Nordic countries. A high quality, universal, well affordable educational system is the bedrock of that mobility. Children can compete much more effectively based on their own capabilities and inclinations and their parents’ or foreparents’ wealth does not predict their own economical success nearly to the degree that it does in the USA where large sections of the population simply cannot effectively compete in the educational system. This is not an opinion: it is a measurable fact, that has in fact been measured in countless studies. Just for the perverse pleasure of it a copy paste of a previous rant on the subject from my blog (actually probably inspired by this site) - as always I would be interested to get an actual libertarian answer on why the human nature would not work like this (which moreover can be and has been empirically observed time after time after time):
“Libertarians I think are the most short sighted people around since Communism went out of business. As with their Marxist-Leninist fellow anti-social liberals, libertarians totally ignore the base, irrational human nature - which is to act aggressively, fearfully and shortsightedly especially as collectives. What would happen in a society without any progressive taxation, income levelling and strong welfare structures? A very easy question to answer: property would accumalate, there would not be money for high quality public education and healthcare. As capitalism inevitably requires losers and steep income unequality, a large proportion of the population would not be able to pay for decent, competitive education, nor would they receive adequate and effective health care. In concequence both poverty and wealth would be increasingly inherited: the children would not have anything approaching a level playing field, talent would be wasted and the lack of talent would often be rewarded just because your parents (or more likely, foreparents) would have been succesful or plain lucky in the unpredictable, irrational market conditions.”
Comment by mjr — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 8:55 am
I looked at the title with horror. Was FFT really going to have a post celebrating something Finnish? As I read on, relief set in. It was just another ridiculous rant.
Of course it’s the climate and weather. That’s why Norway and Sweden did so well is it? Except they didn’t. They came really low.
“English and most other languages require years of reading, spelling, and grammar to become fluent.”
Sorry, but the vast majority of languages are written phonetically or close to phonetically. English and French are two major exceptions.
Comment by Finnsense — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:07 am
The fact that Finland is boring has nothing to do with the high scores and getting work done.
If that was the case then the children from Hong Kond would be last and the kids from Norway would be the in first place.
Also this does not prove that Finns are any smarter than the rest. It just means that they either study or that they practice for the test a lot.
Pure intelligence has nothing to do with achievement test. For that you need an aptitude test like the SAT which is strongly correlated with IQ.
On the other had, IQ has nothing to do with achievement, it just measures the individual’s ability to learn concepts.
Comment by uncle sam — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:16 am
Here is more food for thought about who is really the brightest in Europe
http://marcsmessages.typepad.com/mm/2006/03/dutch_most_inte.html
Finland is the in the middle of the pack
Comment by uncle sam — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:21 am
@3 You mean that it was a miracle that Finland scored high on the PISA?
In many ways Finland is very boring, or closed off. I have a friend who is a foreign European. His two children grew up partly in that other country and partly here. The children were never able to socialize with Finnish young people, even though they spoke the language fluently. One of them has since moved to another country, where she finds the people easier to relate to. The other child ends up spending a lot of time on his own here.
So my theory is that there are a lot of people who are alone. When you are alone, you don’t have much to do or many distractions and you have time to study. Nowadays there is the Internet, but socializing throught the internet is not the real thing. I remember living here for several years before making any Finnish friends. My best friends were all Finnish Australians, half-Finnish people, and foreigners.
The people at my workplace are pretty friendly, but still a bit reluctantly. One foreigner has told me that she feels quite lonely in her corner, because noone talks to her.
Nowadays, I don’t know, maybe young Finnish people are friendly, open, and welcoming to the stranger, but I doubt it. So I think people are still very much alone. This is also perhaps something that contributes to alcohol usage and suicide.
A remedy for this would be for parents to teach their children simple politeness, courtesy and hospitality for the stranger. I have even seen total lack thereof in churches, where they are commanded to show courtesy and hospitality to each other in the Bible.
Comment by sirkuspelle — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:44 am
It always worries me when finnish teenagers win these things.
Because it just makes you wonder what kind of utterly dumb fuckers float around in the world, if finnish teenager is the best world has to offer.
Comment by philtard — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 11:01 am
Rename this post to Kristian’s broken record #2422, thanks. I don’t like misleading titles.
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 11:32 am
The culture of education in Finland is a very strong, with emphasis placed on what really matters in education. That is, reading, science and mathematics. PISA reflects these three as well, as they are the cornerstones of education.
Going K-12 in the U.S, we had so many bullshit classes that really added nothing to our education, such as Social Studies. I would have preferred an education that focused on the Big Three, then to a lesser extent, the “softer” subjects.
Comment by Unit — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 11:51 am
@8 But “not bothering others” *is* the common courtesy, and not talking to someone is a sign of respect.
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
Maybe, just maybe the Finnish way of educating the kids is simply …g-o-o-d? Maybe the teachers know what they are doing. Maybe, just maybe it’s a wonderful thing not to have private schools. Maybe.
Comment by Maybe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
Hank … get a clue. You are the only one who thinks that not talking to someone is a sign o respect
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
I too wondered how Kristina and other finnophobes who flock here would make this piece a news sound bad. Of course, “finnish kids are zombies, really, who for some reason don’t go around killing decent people but read a lot” — which, I suppose, is a almost as bad in the minds of these sirkuspelles.
I had a nice childhood. A lot of friends, long summerdays at the summer cottage, thousands of hours playing with the band, holding hands and kissing with girls (one of them an American exchange student everybody liked), doing my home work. Pretty normal stuff. And here comes the shocker! I’m a Finn!
As to the PISA, here’s a pretty good explanation
http://groups.uni-paderborn.de/rindermann/materialien/PublikationsPDFs/07EJP.pdf
The Finns are the most intelligent among the “white race” after certain statistical adjustments. Finland, Finlande, 103 points, the second best 101. I mean, does somebody think that the Finnish schools really are exceptionally good? Hah, just take a look how much is spend on education here compared to other countries.
But am I the only one who finds this blog utterly depressing, people with unknown frustrations take their hate on us? I mean, is it your theory that if you say to somebody that he’s below any standards then he’ll become a better person? Perhaps you do, and that’s why your educational systems don’t work as well as here.
Comment by A Finns and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
“Kristina” was an honest spelling error. Nothing against the better sex or just plain better sex.
Comment by A Finns and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
Phil, grow a beard and you’ll look like Plato!!
Comment by No name — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Ridiculous, ridiculous post, as usual.
Also ridiculous are the “I have this friend/uncle/neighbour/pet and he/she/it…”
There is something good going on in Finland. Deal with it.
Why? Because we don’t let libertarian nutjobs cut education funding and the taxes that pay for it.
About the merchant class, whatever that has to do with PISA: “http://www.prh.fi/en/uutiset/812.html”
Comment by Herkku — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
“As to the PISA, here’s a pretty good explanation
http://groups.uni-paderborn.de/rindermann/materialien/PublikationsPDFs/07EJP.pdf”
Is that somehow supposed to prove how smart you think you are?
“The Finns are the most intelligent among the “white race†after certain statistical adjustments”
.. because honestly, this sounds pretty dumb.
You dump a document here of 40 pages and call that ‘a good example’, but you do not have anything to say on how you believe intelligence itself is measured?
In fact the truth is that teenagers in Finland are actually pretty bored, more than elsewhere, especially if you live in espoo there literally is not much to do. There are very few community events so whatever hobby you’ll pick any non-retard can become pretty good at it.
Another thing is that the EQ of finnish kids and adults seems to be quite low. EQ does contribute for a large part to ones ability to be happy. Emotional Intelligence. Think about that.It really is ‘a thing’.
In my mind, intelligence is the extend to which any individual is able to achieve happiness.
But then again you can also use intellgigence to complete complex, scientific cycles and processes, but it doesnt tell anything about living conditions or actual ‘intelligence’ for that matter.
However, the finnish education system seems to work very well compared to other schools in europe, helped because there are no real big cities so it doesnt need to scale up too much and education provision doesnt get too complex. In that way, small is beautifull. There are enough qualified teachers and schools, most bigger countries have logistical and scaling problems in ther big cities.
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
Another thing is that the EQ of finnish kids and adults seems to be quite low. EQ does contribute for a large part to ones ability to be happy.
Yes indeed, Finns are about the happiest people on earth according to several studies. I’m glad you brought that up.
By the way, have you heard that the Finns are the most intelligent “white” nation on earth? I wrote that, just to piss you off some more
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:35 pm
“have you heard that the Finns are the most intelligent “white†nation on earth? I wrote that, just to piss you off some more :-)”
.. which of course is a really really smart thing to do
“Finns are about the happiest people on earth”
Please explain to me how exactly you figured this out all by yourself?
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Please provide reference to your rather bold claims? There is lots of evidence that tells different, for starters:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5224306.stm
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Here is another story:
http://www.forbes.com/2006/02/11/happiness-economists-money_cx_pm_money06_0214maidment.html
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
Got links?
http://www.happyplanetindex.org/list.htm
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002223080_happy29.html
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
Please explain to me how exactly you figured this out all by yourself?
Now, I know this is hard if you are not a Finn but let’s take it slowly. I wrote “Finns are about the happiest people on earth according to several studies”. The latter part of the sentence “according to several studies” means that this happiness thing has been studied and not just once but several times. “Studied” again means that qualified people have spend time on the issue following certain scientific rules and then published the results. These so called “studies” have shown that the Finns are among the happiest people on earth.
Your task now is to rewrite your argument so that it reflects the reality and not what happens to pop into your mind.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
So according to studies we can learn that the Danes, no wait, the Puerto Ricans, hold on, Iceland are the happiest people in the world. Or is it Australians?
http://www.migrationexpert.com/Australia/Visa/news_details.asp?newsID=181&archive_month=10&archive_year=2007&older=0
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
I think you need to realize that academic studies by qualified people doesnt make the results of their work neccessarily true. I have just provided links to 5 different studies that each tell a different country is the ‘happiest’.
These ‘certain statistical adjustments’ you refer to are in themselves subjective by default. Surely even an academic can understand this?
Therefor, your task is to provide more information on those statistical adjustments, not to ‘piss you off some more’. That statement is a good example of low EQ. I’m sorry, but thats all I can make of it.
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
I knew this was going to be hard. I wrote: “Finns are about the happiest people on earth according to several studiesâ€Â. If you read the sentence carefully and several times you might realize that the Finns don’t top the rankings every time but are nevertheless close to the top. And that is unfortunately the closest we will ever get to an objective truth.
And if “hehe” wants to find out what adjustments were made, the standard approach is to read the study in question or at least the parts where the adjustments are explained.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
I think that this hard also because we and “hehes” of this world have a different views on what is good behavior. They think that saying something like “you Finns are in fact more stupid than the studies show and what’s more very rude and unhappy people” shows high emotional intelligence.
I’m pretty sure that “hehe” is American or wannabe American. It’s the racism that always gives them away.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
What pisses me the most is that it will take me all afternoon to study the report from the only link you provided. A little bit more consideration for the factual evidence you claim to have would be welcome and save us a lot of time. For your sake I am willing to take it slow but I have better things to do. I believe any such studies are laughable by default, and anyone who takes them serious and anyone who dares to take pride in being ‘the happiest nation’ I think is at least little bit ridiculous. Not one study can ever tell everything, it is the sum of study results that tell the whole story. You said:
“The Finns are the most intelligent among the “white race†after certain statistical adjustmentsâ€Â
And this, my friend, is hardly true. So therefor, again, if you claim that ‘after certain statistical adjustments’ this would be true, I am asking you again:
What are those certain statistical adjustments you speak of?
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
“They think that saying something like “you Finns are in fact more stupid than the studies show and what’s more very rude and unhappy people†shows high emotional intelligence”
Uhm.. where did I say finns are rude and unhappy? And why do you generalize? Can you provide proof for your outrageous claim? As if my nationality would have any relevance in this discussion?
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
I don’t really know what all the factors are behind our childrens success in PISA. But it definitely not the boredom factor, that’s plain rubbish. If you look at other reports, Finnish children are more involved in sports activities and get out of the house more than those in the other Nordic countries - and yet they are all outside of the top 20.
Some of it must be down to our schools. I can say from living in Sweden and from receiving a lot of news from Sweden, that many of their schools are essentially mini-riots in progress rather than learning. It’s quite surprising, but they have serious problems in their school system. So, I’m not surprised at Sweden’s much lower placing.
Comment by JG — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) Said:
“I’m pretty sure that “hehe†is American or wannabe American. It’s the racism that always gives them away.”
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
I agree at least about the fact that Finnish Schools are of high quality. However from one of my links you can read:
“What matters to your sense of well-being, happiometricians conclude, is not your absolute circumstances but how you stack up against the neighbors. Even a millionaire will feel miserable in the company of billionaires, poor sod.”
And from the link to the .pdf you provided:
“the samples only cover persons actually attending schoolsâ€â€pupils.”
but also:
“The samples in many countries were not representative, the participation rates were low, and the country sample was small.”
When I take those factors into account I have already read enough. The link to the study you provide as evidence that Finns are the most intelligent in the world and the happiest in the world is simply not true.
If those are the ‘certain statistical adjustments’.. sigh.
Should I go on?
another quote from that study:
“this study is not used here for aggregation of a general cognitive ability factor across nations.”
no sweat. It’s a subjective study.
“1994–95
grades 4, 8 and 12 were tested (in some countries grades 3 and 7). For grade 12 the
attendance rates were poor and varied widely among countries”
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
while the boredom might or might not be true, its definately not the reason this survey is flawed I’ll give you that
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
The secret behind those scores is TV. We have subtitles here :o).
Comment by Hoijaa — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
The secret behind those scores is TV. We have subtitles here :o).
Haha. Yes, although it depends on the mood of Yleisradio’s computers and the set top box these days as to how useful they actually are
Comment by JG — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
Gee, all this bashing of Finland. What ever happened to the evil USA? Can’t we have some bashing to…….
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
Ok, I will bow to the poltical wind. All your smart kids will get a great education, come to the USA, get rich, become Billionairs.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
@14 Yes, well remember that the next time someone tells you to shut up, as you couldn’t take the clue
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
In many ways Finland is very boring, or closed off. I have a friend who is a foreign European. His two children grew up partly in that other country and partly here. The children were never able to socialize with Finnish young people, even though they spoke the language fluently. One of them has since moved to another country, where she finds the people easier to relate to. The other child ends up spending a lot of time on his own here.
This is kinda funny. The kids weren’t able to get friends, even with their superior foreign social skills? Must be the fault of those antisocial Finnish kids.
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
I’m not Finland bashing. I’m false-survey bashing. In fact I wish Finnish people were the happiest in the world but that is not what I hear from many of my finnish friends. There are lots of reasons and worries that people have, there is lots of poverty, the countryside is more and more empty, the elderly have lots of issues, there is the incredible lonelines that many Finns seem to suffer from, there are many many broken hearts in this country so to state that ‘finns are the happiest people in the world does piss me off. Finland has a lot going for itself, but there still is lot and lots of work to do other than patting yourself on the shoulder based on some flawed test result.
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
#4 mjr, where should I start?
“It is well known that social mobility is highest in the West in the Nordic countries.”
Social mobility is even higher in Cuba. That’s because there is nowhere to climb. Very small steps between lowest and highest rung.
.
.
“A high quality, universal, well affordable educational system is the bedrock of that mobility.”
That exists in nearly every European country. Of course, Finland has far less recent immigrants than most, to not dilute the PISA results.
.
.
“What would happen in a society without any progressive taxation”
Actually, Finland has somewhat less progressive income taxation than many European countries. That is, rich people pay less income taxes.
However, poor people in Finland pay relatively more than in other countries. Also consider that they pay 17% food VAT!
.
.
“A very easy question to answer: property would accumalate, there would not be money for high quality public education and healthcare.”
Ah yes, like those sickly, starving and uneducated Swiss…
http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/12/07/finlands-net-worth-per-capita-lowest-in-old-eu-by-alot/
mjr, your tireless rants against ‘libertarianism’ (=pure capitalism) are quite odd considering that libertarianism has a left-right spectrum. Have you even heard of left-libertarianism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
Please inform yourself better. It will make your writings more interesting.
Comment by Kristian — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
I have never experienced any difficulties in making friends in finland
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
@1 Well, South Korea is apparently number 1 in the literacy scores (followed by Finland)
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
“What would happen in a society without any progressive taxationâ€Â
Look at Estonia. Lots of innovation happening there and strond economic performance. More local investments and more private entrepreneurship.
Also have subtitles btw, as do a lot of other countries in middle europe
http://www1.eur.nl/fsw/happiness/index.html
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
Visit Malmi in Helsinki for example. You’ll see what I mean.
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
“Rename this post to Kristian’s broken record #2422, thanks. I don’t like misleading titles.”
haha
Comment by Random — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
so to state that ‘finns are the happiest people in the world does piss me off.
Does the reality piss you off in general or is it just this particular piece of the reality? Or perhaps you don’t understand what a survey is?
The adjustments made in the study are standard scientific stuff in order to correct the bias in the data. It’s from a peer review publication, by the way.
The Swedish-speaking part of the population is closer to their Scandinavian counterparts than Finnish speaking which too lends some credibility to the “intelligence explanation”.
But one has to remember that intelligence is not a genetic trait, not altogether at least. It’s something in the Finnish way of life, schools or perhaps diet even, which makes the kids more intelligent. Who know what …
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
“I realize that maybe the cold climate and boring lifestyle is more to credit. It makes studying so much easier than anywhere else. The lack of distractions is actually one of my own favorite reasons for spending time in Finland; I can really get some work done!”
This i agree with the author. But this…:
“It’s something in the Finnish way of life, schools or perhaps diet even, which makes the kids more intelligent. Who know what …”
..is bollocks. What makes you think that based on genetics finnish children would be the most intelligent in the world?
I believe it is a false assumption you make there. It’s all relative but it is clear that surveys tend to favor homogenetic populations. I find it xenophobic to claim being the ‘happiest’ nation. What a ridiculous statement.
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
Here’s a graph that shows the correlation between nations’ IQs and the PISA success. The correlation is so strong that it’s impossible to explain away. (Finland is the red dot.)
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
I find it xenophobic to claim being the ‘happiest’ nation. What a ridiculous statement.
So you don’t know what a survey is? And Finland is not the happiest nation but among the happiest, sometimes first in surveys sometimes fifth …
What makes you think that based on genetics finnish children would be the most intelligent in the world?
Now I’m starting to doubt your reading skills, too.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
Hupsista, here’s the graph:
http://www.soininvaara.fi/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/image0021.gif
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
I realize that maybe the cold climate and boring lifestyle is more to credit …
… This i agree with the author.
Oh, now I understand. You’re the kind of person that takes Kristian seriously
(And sorry for suggesting that you’re an American, you clearly are not.)
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
Finnish kids are on average more active than in most other countries, but perhaps they’re active in boring things. No just kidding, what I meant say is that Kristian is a moron.
He’s bored and poor and thinks that so must everybody else be.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
The Swedish-speaking part of the population is closer to their Scandinavian counterparts than Finnish speaking which too lends some credibility to the “intelligence explanation
Huh? Are you somehow suggesting that we are somehow less intelligent on average than the average Finnish-speaker? Strange.
I am “A Finn and Not Ashamed of It (Much)” as well. Although I’d have to say, that there are xenophobic racial theorists such as you that share my nationality does bring some shame to me.
I really don’t believe that any one race is more intelligent than the other. It’s all about the conditions and opportunities people are given.
Comment by JG — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
I heard another survey said that Finnish people are among the most unhappy at school.
Americans, I think, quite enjoy school. It is fun and full of social events, like proms, dances, football games, etc. There is a lot of school spirit. And almost everyone goes to high school. 15 year olds are typically freshmen (1 year) in high school.
In Finland young people hate school, at least according to surveys. There doesn’t seem to be the school spirit or the social events, or having very much fun. This also might be another reason they do better academically. Not so much of the people distractions.
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
You said: “The Finns are the most intelligent among the white race”
Based on that graphic? No explanation? lol
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
“General problems of present cognitive ability research
Isolated research paradigms
Cognitive ability research at the individual as well as the cross-cultural level takes place
within different academic disciplines, university research fields, and education
departments. Examples include ethnological or anthropological research (e.g. Le´vy-Bruhl,
1966), cross-cultural developmental research in the tradiation of Piaget (e.g. Dasen, 1977),
Marxist oriented cultural and cognitive developmental research (Lurija, 1976),
combination of anthropological and Piagetian research (e.g. Hallpike, 1978), combination
of Piagetian and sociological research (Oesterdiekhoff, 2000), psychometric intelligence
research (e.g. Jensen, 1980, 1998), psychometric intelligence research in combination with
an evolutionary approach (e.g. Lynn, 2006; Rushton, 1997), student assessment studies
(PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS), and economic human capital research (e.g. Mankiw et al., 1992;
Hanushek & Kimko, 2000).
These paradigms are highly isolated from another.”
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:24 pm
Sorry JG, but it’s a fact that there is difference between the two “ethnicities”. I read a study about it some time ago. The author had found such differences like that Finnish speakers had more often classic in the bookshelves, an own desk, a calculator(!) and they liked to read factual stuff. Doesn’t sound too convincing! Or have you forgotten to buy a calculator to your kids.
I hate racism and although I believe that intelligence clearly explain a lot (see the graph by Soininvaara I posted, the correlation is way too strong to be meaningless) I like to think that intelligence is not a nature but nurture thing. The intelligence of the Finns have risen by one point each decade, pretty much the same way as in other industrialized countries.
Then again the difference between the Swedish and Finnish speakers’ Pisa success is so small that … öh sorry I brought it up, ursäkta.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
Doesn’t sound too convincing!
You said it yourself.
Then again the difference between the Swedish and Finnish speakers’ Pisa success is so small that …
… no one other than Heikki Tala would find anything significant in it?
You highlight the failings in your argument yourself! The rest of us don’t even really need to try.
Comment by JG — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:33 pm
JG: “am “A Finn and Not Ashamed of It (Much)†as well. Although I’d have to say, that there are xenophobic racial theorists such as you”
What, racists and xenophobes in Finland? No way LOL!
JG: “It’s all about the conditions and opportunities people are given.”
I agree. In fact, I named climate and boringness as environmental conditions that lead to good study habits. It’s an oversimplification of course, but I do think it plays a major role.
Also, being a small country means needing to adapt to knowledge and language (English) from the outside world. That leads to a wider overall knowledge base. Larger, more self-sufficient countries like Germany tend to wallow in the German-speaking realm, which is comparatively more limited.
It’s not to imply that the 15-year-olds don’t deserve credit for their achievements, because they do. And, I’m very hopeful that the younger generation will be more wise economically than their parents. They’ve seen more, traveled more, and can’t be brainwashed as easily.
I’ve always said that more young people should be in politics (but, maybe not as young as 15
). It would probably make a big difference in eliminating some of the rigid structures that exist today.
Comment by Kristian — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
This link is in Finnish. MOT 03/19/07 gives a little different kind of picture of the PISA-study and our good results….
http://www.yle.fi/mot/hs070319/kasikirjoitus.htm
Comment by Hoijaa — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
thank you Hoijaa
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
If Kristian just left the country the xenophobia would decrease significantly. Lots of xenophobia is needed to turn the lives of Finnish kids into a caricature he drew.
And JG, you didn’t understand my argument, but who cares.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
xenophobia starts from parents and not from kids, it is a result from what example parents give through to their children.
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
by the way, isnt you nick implying that according to you there are Finns who are ashamed of being finnish? Even you seem to be ashamed of being finnish yourself it seems, be it not much. Can you tell why you choose this name? ‘ashemed’ spelled wrong even, proving you have a less than avarage command of the english language. Doesn’t that make you come across as being very insecure? Why is this?
Comment by hehe — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 6:02 pm
What said you?
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
Finland has more Mensa members by population than any other country. Why?
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/For+love+of+the+Gaussian+curve/1135224349312
Comment by stalker — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
Here are a map of happy and not so happy people.
http://www.economist.com/images/20070714/CIR947.gif
Finland stands out like a beacon in a night of general misery. I wonder if we are so happy because we’re so intelligent.
(Here’s the accompanying story that quotes a few studies:
http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9475891
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
The article things that we are so happy because we’re so rich. Well, why not.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
Welfare structures make people happy, too. That’s why the happiest people are generally found in the affluent North-European countries.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 7:34 pm
The way I spell one could thing I’m not a Finn.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
@46
I learned how to read and spell Finnish in my first week of Finnish class at the UofMN. I’m 29 years old and I still don’t know how to read and spell English.
My wife and I are teaching our daughter how to read Finnish. She won’t be going to kindergarten (in USA) for another 1.5 years but by the time she goes she will be able to read in Finnish at a level she won’t be able to read in English for several more years. Thats from just a few hours a week of instruction.
Many languages may be read phoneticly but Finnish is phonetic AND has a very logical grammar rule system. My Finnish language instructor always said for every rule in English you have 100 exceptions and for every exception to a rule in Finnish you have 100 rules w/o exceptions. She was born in raised in Finland and spoke and studied several languages, so I believe she knew what she was talking about.
I not saying that THIS is the reason Finns do so well on the PISA tests. I do think it’s a great advantage for Finland to have.
I think Finns do well as students because Finnish culture encourages education. Finnish families value it. Children are most influenced by their parents and Finnish parents value education to the extreme so Finnish schools educate their children on the core fundamentals.
Comment by maaksalaatikko — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
“Finland has more Mensa members by population than any other country.”
oh great
and zero Billionaires.
Again, its the high taxes, not the smart folks.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 8:21 pm
Two interesting points to consider.
Finland has so few migrants or 1st generation Finns when compared to other Western ind countries. This means the vast majority of the school population are speaking in a language their family has used for centuries rather than in many other places where students are new to the country and system. They learn their “mother tongue” almost as a second language and are constantly using 2 if not 3 languages daily. Surely this plays a part in the learning abilities of different populations.
Secondly, “Comment by a Finn and…..blah blah blah……” you sure your stuff. Genetically more intellegent? Diet perhaps? My God, the only thing sure about Finnish genes are the problems caused by the lack of depth in the gene pool here. Unique medical conditions and allergies etc. As for the diet, you’re not trying to convince us the Finnish diet is the source of all this brain power are you?
Comment by Punter — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
The post here about the PISA scores seems to be saying that it’s somehow ironic (or moronic) that a nation of highly educated people is also a nation where highly educated people are paid less than similarly educated individuals in other European countries. Right? This is the point of the post isn’t it? So this is the topic for debate right?
It’s certainly an interesting topic and so far it doesn’t seem to have been debated here.
Comment by Andy Campbell — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
Yes Andy Campbell, that’s correct.
The high PISA scores certainly make a good juxtaposition to Finland’s low standard of living.
This topic (although not the juxtaposition itself) is often reported in Finnish news sources and discussed on Finnish forums and blogs.
Comment by Kristian — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
If a nation is more intelligent than the others there is pound to be more supply of intelligent employees which lowers their salaries. Simple.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
@78 In the land of the blind, the one-eyed is the king
You look at almost any job advertisement out there, they expect the applicant to have a degree - be it parquet cosmetology… And people do have a lot of certificates and degrees. At the end of the day there is however not enough jobs to go around so the people with degrees take “lower rung” jobs, so what I think is theres been an inflation. And thats nothing new.
Though if you look at people with postgrad degrees especially in public jobs, they’re really paid a pittance as compared even to the private sector let alone other countries.
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:24 pm
Actually ‘ashemed Finn’, salaries depend on the ratio of job takers versus job creators. Finland has lots of takers, but few creators due to taxation and discriminatory policies that I mentioned initially.
With few job creators, there’s no competition for workers.
Of course, the other part of the equation is Finland’s low purchasing power…
http://www.finlandforthought.net/2007/04/28/ostovoima-low-purchasing-power-for-highly-educated-in-finland/
Comment by Kristian — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:28 pm
by the way, isnt you nick implying that according to you there are Finns who are ashamed of being finnish? Even you seem to be ashamed of being finnish yourself it seems, be it not much.
Well there are a lot of people who are very touchy about it. Finland has always been a backwater, nothing to be ashamed of, but you know a country cousin feeling when compared to the big city people.
‘ashemed’ spelled wrong even, proving you have a less than avarage command of the english language.
Don’t be so mediocre.
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
@82 With few job creators, there’s no competition for workers.
No, but at the same time there is a huge “need for workers” meaning exploitable cheap workforce, while a lot of integrated immigrants sit unemployed.
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
Well, the more desperate firms are already importing workers from China. And the need for workers is getting greater and greater from 2009 onwards. Strange thing taking into account that Finland has “few creators”. Fortunately Finland is one of the richest countries purchasing power wise in the world and thus it won’t be too difficult to get new workers.
Comment by A Finn and not ashemed of it (much) — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:43 pm
Hank W.”No, but at the same time there is a huge “need for workers†meaning exploitable cheap workforce, while a lot of integrated immigrants sit unemployed.”
Yes, that’s correct. Finland’s centralized economy is very corporate-heavy. In most ‘free-er’ economies, immigrants work in the (non-corporate) service sector.
But Finland’s economy is restricted by ultra-high taxation, so that sector is much more limited.
Comment by Kristian — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
“Well, the more desperate firms are already importing workers from China. And the need for workers is getting greater and greater from 2009 onwards. Strange thing taking into account that Finland has “few creatorsâ€Â.”
Corporations are hiring specialized talent from China (perhaps for their Chinese language skills). But these positions are limited.
Overall competition for general, less-specialized labor is limited by the number of job creators and entrepreneurs. In other countries, small companies ensure competition for labor. Finland doesn’t have those small companies; only big ones that can outsource any time they want.
If you doubt that, then why is both pay AND purchasing power so low in Finland? — in western terms, that is.
Comment by Kristian — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
@87 Corporations are hiring specialized talent from China (perhaps for their Chinese language skills).
Like those stonecutters that worked for slave wages? Sure.
Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 11:02 pm
Are we talking about stonecutters or corporate employees?
Of course they’ll get cheap-as-possible ones for that type of work. Nobody in the western world wants to do that type of heavy work anymore. Same with bus driving—who wants to work by a timeclock these days? Nobody.
Comment by Kristian — Sun, Dec 2nd, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
Who would be a bus driver, when you can come to the evil, USA and become a Billionaire.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 12:17 am
In my experience here in Finland a company needs to be reasonably large in size for the entrepreneur to feel that all of the extra hours they are putting in is financially worthwhile. It takes a good 3 years to get a company up and running successfully and then there are no guarantees that it will work. I can understand why some highly educated people might not really want to take the risk of starting their own business.
Perhaps it will be left to us foreigners to start businesses here? At least we will be able to provide ourselves with work.
In the U.K, which probably didn’t do very well in the PISA scores, there are so many ’serial entrepreneurs’ and it seems everyone wants to start a business - the rewards are really good even there is a lot of competition.
In Norway I understand that there is a problem with motivating native Norwegians to start businesses and so on because the country has a lot of wealth and I believe the general population are as smart as the Finns if we can say that. These situations are often a boon for foreign entrepreneurs.
Comment by Andy Campbell — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 12:30 am
or in a world where women on a daily basis are targets for terror, torture, oppression and murder you could become s USA troop and risk your life to banish that horror from the lives of tens of millions of women.
Naw, you are european, go back to your cup of coffee.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 12:32 am
@91 So the foreigners are “stupid enough to try” as nobody tells them this bit:
It takes a good 3 years to get a company up and running successfully and then there are no guarantees that it will work.
Or if you tell it to them, they accuse you of being negative…
Of course it is easy to be “positive thinking” when deep down inside one knows they can pack up and leave when things turn sour, while the natives calculate their whole lives are to be spent dodging the collection agents if they fail - unless of course they have enough capital to loose. Which your average person - with these salaries - doesn’t have. Venture capital is another thing, but you usually need to have a running business to get any outside funding. Natives think its better to keep the bird in hand than go seeking those in the bush, unless you have a well-stocked henhouse
Its the dilemma of too much education = too much risk analysis.
Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 12:51 am
@93 Yes it seems like that, although if I fail I wont pack up. Just start again - I’m in the union now and plan on being here for the long haul.
Comment by Andy Campbell — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 12:56 am
Its mostly just about keeping one step ahead of the taxman…
Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 1:03 am
“Finland has more Mensa members by population than any other country. Why?
Because they have more self-absorbed not really all that bright people? Mensa is for dopes who need something like Mensa to reassure themselves that they’re smart enough to get into something like a club for blowhards like that? Mensa. What a joke.
“Its the dilemma of too much education = too much risk analysis.”
Or just lowered expectations.
Comment by hfb — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 5:15 am
Or is it Norway?
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/19529-michael-moore-cut-this-scene-from-sicko-because-no-one-would-believe-it
Comment by hehe — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 7:31 am
Americans are NOT stupid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
Comment by stalker — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 11:19 am
I’d say the kids deserve the credit. After all they are spending schooldays in conditions their parents wouldn’t accept to work in.
School system is really shaky nowadays, ovepacked classrooms, mould, long distances…
As a pupil of an old healthy village school I don’t envy the teens of today, who are (by government) seemingly treated more like a cattle than children. Kids just don’t have the choice. Usually even the local administration tries to hush up any complaints about health risks in schools. And if you get some life-long health hazard being exposed at age of 7 to 15, no one is going to compensate that to you, but if you get it from work your emplyer is in shit creek.
Comment by issi — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 11:37 am
@77,
Unique medical conditions? Like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay-Sachs_disease , you mean? Every nation has a slightly different selection of those nasties, ours are just better documented than most. Mixing the genes up does not remove the unfortunate genes, it just means we’ll have all the old problems and then some.
There’s a hereditary element to intelligence, but the environmental element in stupidity is probably rather more important in explaining all these scores.
Comment by prince of dorkness — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
#100 “Every nation has a slightly different selection of those nasties, ours are just better documented than most.”
Of course. Sorry, I should’ve known that…………
Comment by Punter — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
You can try to explain the scores in terms of genetics. Well, that might be true, but then? Nothing to discuss over after the fact. So let’s assume that probably it’s nurture not nature.
My observation here is that the scores are higher for Finland and East Asian countries. What are common for both well separated countries. Language? No. Chinese is totally different. One thing that is very common for both regions is the attitude toward education and attitude of students. Education is the prime factor in Japanese Samurai culture and Chinese Confucian culture. Also there students are very obedient to teachers. Students cannot dare to raise questions to Samurai teachers. And this obedient attitude is exactly what you observe in Finland. Finnish students don’t question their teachers. The result is that even though PISA score or IQ might be higher for both regions, they lack creativity. That’s exactly what we see in Japan and in Finland. When they are raised as obedient collective citizens, they never dare to raise question their government, their system, but they simply become obedient collective people.
That’s the reason why Swedes who are lower in PISA scores but they achieve more in higher level of academic activities like Nobel Prize. That’s the reason why Swedes innovate and make the political and economical system, when Finns simply copy Swedish system. Creativity is the key issues. Obedient people need not to think.
Comment by european — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
European, having lived in Sweden and having fairly good contact with the Swedish news media, I can tell you that probably the main reason for Sweden’s poor performance is that they have a serious disciplin problem in their schools. To the extent, where it is normal for pupils to listen to MP3 players and answer their mobile phones during lessons. The teachers are not allowed to confiscate such items as it is an infringement of the pupils rights! So, some degree of order is needed in schools. So, I suppose I agree with you to an extent.
I am not sure about your point on creativity. I would say that both Finnish and Japanese people are quite creative (you could even compare this as a simularity if you wished, with Japan being renowed for its hi-tech devices and Finland being known for Nokia).
Comment by JG — Mon, Dec 3rd, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
@102 they lack creativity. That’s exactly what we see in Japan and in Finland.
And that is why people drive a Toyota, listen a Hitachi, watch Sony, speak into a Nokia and check time from a Suunto before going to sing karaoke?
I agree that the cultural aspects in this sense are similar. But the result - how about the lack of egocentricism
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 10:03 am
#103, 104,
For creativity, I mean a innovative inventions and discoveries. Not a modification of existing things. Obedient people achieve very well for small modification, because they are raised to work by order. But they lack innovation.
Have Japanese invented cars? No. Have Japanese invented Audio systems? No. Have Finns invented mobile phones? No. Have Finns invented watches? No. They improve things. OK. That’s enough to have best selling items.
I always think the only unique Finnish invention is only Sauna.
Students should be educated to choose their way of behavior in some extent. Swedish student who listen to MP3 player who can be poorer in PISA test will achieve more in life-long-wise. Disciplined studetns could be better for limited tests and exams like PISA, but never good at innovation beyond their imagination.
Comment by european — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
When Finnish students don’t have courages to say against their teachers “What you are saying are bullshits!”, can they say against the government “What you are doing are bullshits!”? You might say they can change the government in the next election, but democracy is more than elections. That’s why democracy is lost(or never found) in Finland.
Comment by european — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
european: As always, you do not know shit.
“North East Asia files record number of international patents
The US continued to top the PCT user table, filing 33.6 per cent of all patents (an increase of 3.8 per cent during 2004), while Japan, which unseated Germany in 2003 to take the number two position, maintained its place with 18.8 per cent of the total applications (a 24.3 per cent increase). Japan is followed by Germany, France and then the UK. Other European countries in the top 15 are: the Netherlands (7th); Switzerland (8th); Sweden (9th); Italy (12th); and Finland (14th).”
Quite a good achievement for a country with population of 5.3 million.
Comment by tim73 — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
@105 I always think the only unique Finnish invention is only Sauna.
Which is not a Finnish invention.
Off the top of my head I can say the dish drying cabinet
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
#108,
Really? That’s a news to me. Sauna is not a Finnish invention? Then who invented that?
Dish drying cabinet? Hmmm, also interesting.
Comment by european — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
#107
You are still mentioning the boring list of patents. If you look on the list, you will find that most of them are shits.
I will accept your opinion if you show any single example of Nobel prize winner or innovative inventions from Finland.
Well, I can give some scores to Linux(But he was the Swedish speaker. Probably he was not so much disciplined as Finnish speakers I guess) and Dish drying rack.. Are there any more?
Comment by european — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
“I will accept your opinion if you show any single example of Nobel prize winner or innovative inventions from Finland.”
Artturi Ilmari Virtanen - 1945 - Nobel Price in Chemistry
Ragnar Granit - 1967 - Nobel Price in Medicine (born in Riihimäki).
Comment by tim73 — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
“Finnish individuals, research teams, and companies file around 2,000 patent applications annually, of which around 70 percent result in patents. These figures were slightly higher some years ago during the information technology boom. Per capita, this places Finland in the number four slot worldwide, after Japan, the USA and Germany.
The current leading organization in terms of the most domestic patent applications lodged is Nokia Corporation, which filed 177 such applications in 2003. Second in line is Metso Corporation, with 172 applications, next is the Technical Research Centre of Finland (VTT ) with 54 applications, Outokumpu Corporation with 52 and Kone Corporation with 49. In addition to domestic patents, international patents, trademarks and company secrets have a very important role in the business world.”
Source: http://virtual.finland.fi/
One nice Finnish innovation:
http://www.fogscreen.fi/en/product/ - company offering walk-through projection screens based on the patented FogScreen technology
Comment by tim73 — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
#111,
It seems that you forgot the fact that they were taught in Swedish way at old times. It again proves the superiority of Swedish creative education system.
Comment by european — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
European, if anything the Finnish system of today reasembles far more closely the Swedish system of those people’s time, than today’s Swedish system.
Comment by JG — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
Fuck off “european”, you just hate Finns. Maybe you are that Polish guy who got fired from Nokia and now it is on web trying to ridicule anything related to Finns and Finland.
There is no point of arguing with you because you narsistic twat always try to play down anything factual that might contradict your idiotic sayings.
Comment by tim73 — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
Just noticed that the BBC is highlighting the PISA scores. No doubt that the schools in Finland are doing great and should be congratulated. I wonder how it goes for students from age 18+? I know that quite a few Finnish students consider studying abroad.
Now I wonder if these Finnish kids are being pushed at all past age 16. It would be nice to do some sort of comparison.
I’ve heard that Finnish students feel safe at school and kind of worry about life after school. If society is producing all of of these intelligent kids will society be able to meet their expectations?
Comment by Andy Campbell — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
@115: “Finland is Lame” capitulated in 4 days to “Super Pooland”.
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
european: “For creativity, I mean a innovative inventions and discoveries. Not a modification of existing things. Obedient people achieve very well for small modification, because they are raised to work by order. But they lack innovation.”
You really know quite little about innovation and the development of technology in general. Tecnology, you see, progresses by small steps and gradual change. There is a lot of innovation happening all the time, but real ground-breaking “inventions” are actually very rare.
This could be compared to evolution, in which a lot of different combinations and concepts are being continually introduced, and only a small part of those catch on.
Rather than inventions, one should talk about breakthroughs: most ideas, like the automobile, are quite old indeed, but did catch on only after many different component parts were developed, connected in a meaningful way and the time and society were ready for them.
Technological progress is a slow, wasteful process. This can be seen in the big numbers of patents granted in Finland or other technologically savvy societies: most of them might indeed be for “shits”, but only through a lot of innovation on different levels and “modification of existing things” the valuable finds are made.
In the past it has been quite popular to lift “inventor geniuses” on pedestals, to celebrate National Heroes like Watt, Stephenson, Ford, Edison etc. This simplistic view of technological change being somehow personal and national has been long ago abandoned by researchers, tending to focus rather on international networks, social processes and technological transfer between societies.
You, sir, are promoting an ahistorical and obsolete view of the history of technology, a throwback to the nationalistic historical narratives of a bygone era.
Comment by Drakon — Tue, Dec 4th, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
@114,
Yes. The excellent Swedish educational system was subjected to bold, daring and stupid innovations in the 1970’s, from which it has not completely recovered. Things like grades and homework were repressive and reactionary, and no-one really needed to know anything, what people needed was to be creative and happy and good citizens. Never mind about literacy, numeracy or getting an education that might help underprivileged kids get somewhere in this world.
Plus, as Punter pointed out above, there’s no Finnish equivalent of immigrant kids speaking a blattesvenska pidgin as their native language.
Comment by prince of dorkness — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 11:52 am
#115,
Oh, my poor friend. What have you brought to such vulgar racism? Any lost euro coin in Poland?
Anyway, I am sure you were a not very disciplined Finnish student.
Comment by european — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
#118,
I agree with you on the cumulative advancement. A very general concept. But we are not talking about the general concept. We are talking about the achievement from Finland on par with the achievements in PISA test.
Comment by european — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 2:12 pm
@121,
This test was of 15-year olds. Show me a 15-year old with a Nobel Prize and I’ll grant your argument is relevant.
Anyway, what is it that you’re arguing we should do? Abolish all vestiges of classroom disclipine? You’ll be gratified to hear there’s plenty of kids who’ll tell their teachers that all that the school teaches is bullshit, but I somehow don’t expect they’ll be making a major positive contribution to our society anytime soon. Should we try to re-invent the wheel, because that wasn’t invented here either? WTF is it that you’re going on about?
Comment by prince of dorkness — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 2:35 pm
“We are talking about the achievement from Finland on par with the achievements in PISA test.”
The PISA test is about good general achievement. Innovation in Finland is, as mentioned, on per capita basis on a very good level. This rests on the broad basis of a well conducted basic education in mathematics and science. You have been writing about “great inventions” as a yardstick of the level of national innovation, which is, as I wrote above, a thoroughly oldfashioned concept.
Most “great inventions” tend to come from big countries with big market areas: this is precisely because those are the places it is most easy to break through at, in terms of capital availability etc. (I am sure Kristian will chime in about this). This does not mean people in those big countries would be somehow, on average, more innovative because of that, or even that their system would be better: it is more a matter concerning economies of scale and concentration of different resources. This also applies to places of learning: big countries’ top universities with a great catchment area, such as the MIT, can attractt more top level talents and “produce innovation” on a scale hard to match in small countries.
The vast increase in international links, co-operation and the availability of information of late (especially since WWII and the internet age) have levelled the field a bit, easily seen in the good performance of smaller societies like South Korea, Taiwan, Sweden or Finland, but the economies of scale remain.
Comment by Drakon — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
Drakon - In general, I might agree with the idea of scale except it does get used whenever it suits the argument, e.g. leaving scale out of arguments of, say, healthcare when it’s used to criticise mostly the US system and putting it back in when it reinforces a weak argument such as this.
know a Finnish child prodigy who is now an adult. He was sent to Harvard, got his Ph.D. at a ridiculously young age and moved back to Finland to marry his teenage sweetheart and have kids. Last time I saw him he didn’t seem all that happy and was working for some generic IT company without much distinction. Education can only take you so far and I’ve always viewed traditional education before university as merely indoctrination for those not smart enough or motivated enough to do it for themselves as well as track you into a docile role in society. It’s necessary, but it doesn’t accomodate the truly bright kids very well.
Those smarter have a chance in university to blossom and to allow their creativity and imagination take them where their interests lie. So why isn’t this guy, along with countless other really smart people in Finland rocking their world? It’s not just numbers. It seems like all the Finns who are distinguishing themselves these days are outside of Finland with no plans to return.
Comment by hfb — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
hfb: “So why isn’t this guy, along with countless other really smart people in Finland rocking their world? It’s not just numbers. It seems like all the Finns who are distinguishing themselves these days are outside of Finland with no plans to return.”
I have a story for you. In the early 19th century there was a smart Swedish guy called John Ericsson. He was to become one of the premier inventors of the railway locomotive in the 1820s, the ship propeller in 1830s and -40s, the ironclad battleship in the 1860s and the torpedo in the 1870s and -80s.
To realise his inventions he had to move to the United Kingdom and later to the United States. Today, he has a National Memorial dedicated to him in Washington, D.C.
Imagine he had stayed in Sweden. There is no way he could have gained the possibility or amassed the capital to build a railway locomotive, for example. Railways demanded huge capital inputs and a existing, high class heavy industry. Though it bankrupted its first builder, the first railway in Sweden was completed in 1849, 20 years later Ericson had built his working locomotive in England.
Later, in the United States, Ericsson could work within the large ship industry and design the USS Monitor, a historic ironclad, which was built in 1862 with state support. It proved a success in the Civil War and three years later, the Swedish Navy commissioned a similar ship. Without the success in America, would Ericsson have had any possibility to push through such a outlandish, costly and unproven design if he had first come up with it in Sweden?
Though I may pushing a “great inventor”- story here against my better judgment (Ericsson was no way the only inventor working with these things, though he might have been the only Swede), I think his life is a testament to the benefits of big countries and economies of utilizing talent much more effectively, even disproportionately so, than smaller ones. For all his talent, Ericsson could well have lived as a small-time engineer in Sweden for the rest of his days - and Sweden still was one of the premier innovative countries of Europe during his time.
Comment by Drakon — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
When you are speaking about living “under difficult ideology-shaped conditions in the shadow of the Soviet Union” and claiming that it somehow screwed up our parent’s learning abilities, are you sure you are thinking about the right country? Would, say, Hungary be the country you are talking about?
Sure we were influenced by the USSR during the cold war but we weren’t a communist dictatorship! Yes, the media was self-censoring content the presidents had to keep up warm relations and many finns were communists (*gasp* because they wanted to!) but it wasn’t like the schools had turned into commie re-education camps. I thought they were working pretty well even in those days?
And you should blame the swedes for the high taxes (I’m not btw, welfare state FTW!) instead of Russians, they are the ones who came up with this welfare state anyways!
Comment by Lutz — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
Hehee, I went to school in dreaded 70’s and someone calling my school a commie re-education camp doesn’t know a scheisse. Heck, my first teacher was a karelian evacuee from the isthmus. Everyone can guess where she stood in relation to the workers paradise next door.
In lukio one of my history teachers got actually sued for saying “In my opinion, the socialist system is better” in class.
OK, there were some crazy local experiments elsewhere in Finland, such as ‘Pirkkalan moniste’, a marxist-leninist study material on history of Finland, but these and their authors were practically laughing stock already then. Quite soon a parody named “Prinkkalan moniste” was published and circulationg around.
Only ’70’s thing’ in my ‘backwoods’ school was a brief visit by some slightly hippie teacher trainee from Joensuu. Instead of the usual hymn no. 473 at morning prayer, he played Pekka Streng’s “Perhonen” (Butterfly). As a result our regular teacher sentenced us to detention for giggling at the prayers after making sure our reasons to giggle at flowers and butterflies in the song were totally innocent.
Comment by Antti rn — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 7:43 pm
Lutz:
“Sure we were influenced by the USSR during the cold war but we weren’t a communist dictatorship!”
Ah, but therein lies the cornerstone of finlandisation. It was easier to believe Soviet propaganda when one didn’t have to live in the Soviet reality.
“it wasn’t like the schools had turned into commie re-education camps.”
The indoctrination was quite subtle, I can tell you that. Too bad I’ve thrown away my Kekkoslovakia-era textbooks. Too many moves.
For the Fennophones amongst us, here’s Niklas Herlin demanding a statue of Hitler in Helsinki (because some brainiacs are trying to get one erected for Lenin):
http://www.uusisuomi.fi/blogit/niklasherlin/hitlerpatsas-helsinkiin
By the way, winnie, that guy’s brother is a Billionaire. In euros, not toilet paper.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Dec 5th, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
Lutz: “…ideology-shaped conditions in the shadow of the Soviet Union and claiming that it somehow screwed up our parent’s learning abilities,”
My intro wasn’t directed toward learning abilities or schooling. It’s more about society, in general. Nothing I have written so far, has criticized the school system or learning abilities in Finland. It’s not my direction.
Lutz: “Sure we were influenced by the USSR during the cold war but we weren’t a communist dictatorship!”
No, of course not. There was a saying in East Germany: “We have a democracy wherein we vote for the same guy each time.” That was in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik…surrounded by barbed wire and landmines…you know, to keep the class enemy out. But they DID actually have elections.
Ok, maybe that’s a bit übertrieben as a direct comparison with Finland, but you might remember the Russian jets that flew overhead on a regular basis, and then the Finnish ones chased them back. I don’t think that little game was designed for the promotion of democracy…by either side.
“And you should blame the swedes for the high taxes”
True. After Sweden hid behind Finland’s back during WW2—and surely wouldn’t have helped in any emergency thereafter—Finland copied their system instead of developing it’s own.
Looking back, closer ties with Germany would have been better if possible. But it’s difficult to align the economies of a more business- and wealth-oriented economy (Ger) with a more Socialist one (Fin). The Socialist one always benefits disproportionately by being ‘pulled along.’
It makes negotiations difficult.
Comment by Kristian — Thu, Dec 6th, 2007 @ 12:55 am
Kristian: Corporations are hiring specialized talent from China (perhaps for their Chinese language skills).
Me: It’s usually considered a good thing, credibility wise, to have some sort of an idea about the things one is claiming to be an expert on.
Certain Finnish firms are in a situation in which they pretty much employ anybody with basic skills in manufacturing or construction. Some of them have started to hire straight from Chinese schools. The overall costs to get them here are pretty high, but the need is overwhelming. Hopefully that will get the ball rolling so that when Finland by 2025 needs about half a million “extra workers” the Chinese can fill a big part of the demand.
A China town in Helsinki by 2025 with 30 000 inhabitants, I hope.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Dec 7th, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
One specific motivational aspect drives even adolescent Finns.
It´s shame. Shame to be looser or less succesful. Shame to be different.
Shame to express yourself without some kind of mutually accepted comparability. Everything must be ranked very strictly in Finland. You are really loved only when you have over-exceeded your parents hopes. Shame is same time very accepted self-disciplinary act as “determined attitude” and same time self-loathing shame as different individual under social pressure.
Succes is accepted kind of sublimation for the refusal to express feelings. You are weak Finn when you show your feelings.
We are same kind of shame culture as Japan. “World Helth Organization” has ranked Finland most violent country in Europe. Same time we are one of the less corrupted. There are huge paradoxes in Finland. Even suicide is kind of competition. It is final Finnish pride to hang himself in the way that your legs touches floor and man could stop the strangling anytime but accomplishing the suicide this way shows how purposeful and hard man you are. There is no other country having self hanging as most used suicide practice.
“Defiance”, “uho”, is counter reaction for shame, “häpeä”. Behind the shame and succes we have horrible national history of wide hunger deaths before Finland became independent country.
- “Self-control is very important in Finland,” said Dr. Liisa
Keltikangas-Jarvinen, a professor of psychology at the University of
Helsinki. “You cannot show anger; it means you can’t cope. If a person
is very temperamental and alive, expresses emotions like anger and
happiness, the person is seen as infantile.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/11/international/europe/11HELS.html?ex=1137214800&en=fecc540e16d29e6a&ei=5070
- ” In 2004, a theater director named Turo Herala made big news in Helsinki when he began offering anger-venting classes - a true novelty in Finland. “Anger in Finland is a bigger taboo than sex,” Herala explained to a reporter.”
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20070116-000004.html
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