Phil:
Literally, he couldn’t refuse it or else he’d goto jail.

I’m no fan of conscription but this is simply incorrect. He could always choose civilian service. You’ll go to jail only if you refuse both.

I’m no fan of conscription but this is simply incorrect. He could always choose civilian service.

Yeah, I meant he couldn’t refuse his duty, either army or civil service.

This is one of the few issues I would support libertarians in. Hire some professionals, have everybody else go to the fire brigade, or hell, the boy scouts… if they want to.

Anyone can postpone it until they are 27 after which you have to serve. (unless you are jehovas witness in which case you postpone until 27 and if still a witness you go home)

All you need to postpone is a good reason, career sure is one.

love me phil

Phil, three people shot in a school in Tuusula. Here’s a link to a video allegedly posted by the shooter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FErcNl3Tjh0

http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/arkistot/kotimaa/2007/11/578898

Here’s his manifesto and some related stuff.

http://rs239.rapidshare.com/files/68015773/Pekka-Eric_Auvinen___Jokela_High_School_Massacre.zip

I was slightly amused when some lieutenant said on TV “I hope Nieminen’s example will inspire others that are contemplating whether or not it makes any sense to do your military service”

I think most Finnish males can vouch that, in fact, it makes no sense. The military takes in way more people than it needs and the result is conscripts who repair bikes, make donuts, guard the gates and do other free labor, while and others are playing war in the forest armed with similar equipment as that of the Taliban. All of this is supervised by bitter officers who don’t want to be in the forest working with unmotivated teenagers, so they send you running around some distant location on a whim.

Add to that old ladies who would rather send the youth of Finland to be slaughtered in the field than join NATO because “The US is mean” and voila! you got Finland’s defense policy.

Here’s his manifesto and some related stuff.

Content appears to be missing, anyone happened to copy it?

Ahh, okay, I need to wait to download the .zip file. Anyone have it and have posted it elsewhere?

This one of the topics that really gets me going, conscription in Finnish defense forces. I don’t think there are victims here and I really don’t think our conscription laws are archaic.

Of course it would be nice if everything would be flowery and people would throw instead of say, grenades, flowers to each other. But it isn’t as long as there are guns in the world every nation should have proper means to defend itself. Now, I won’t get started on what the USA is doing overseas, is that justified or not but here in Finland, we rather have to have conscription defense forces (not army ) but anyways. Really there are no acceptable alternative, we could go on and have a professional army but we sure don’t have the green to back it up.

Besides this way we can keep up believable amount of men in arms if shit would hit the fan. Also the fact that most of Finnish men can operate a assault rifle if needed, could also present a thing to possible invaders to think about.

FDF is not all that bad anyways, you get to see the country, shoot some guns, get new probably life long friends, get some insight on how to survive in the woods, probably better physical condition among other traits. It’s also first independent period of life for many of the youngsters (all though grunts don’t get decided how-to do things but for those that stay for 12 months and get NCO, Sergeant or Officer training, its really worth the money and by money I mean its free).

Of course there is that serious side of learning how-to most efficiently kill another human being but that’s the purpose, it ain’t no summer camp. But for memories, it rocked harder than many things in life, camping out in -30 degrees C, that’s hardcore and well fun on retrospective.

“Add to that old ladies who would rather send the youth of Finland to be slaughtered in the field than join NATO”

So it’s better to die in NATO than in a Finnish battle field?

By the way, i’m not an old lady.

“FDF is not all that bad anyways, you get to see the country, shoot some guns, get new probably life long friends, get some insight on how to survive in the woods, probably better physical condition among other traits.”

Not a really strong argument for conscription, I’m afraid. If it is so much fun, nothing stops guys from forming clubs where they can dress in camo and play in the woods. We have the everyman’s right and all. As for the physical condition part, that is mostly bullshit. Unpleasant circumstances do not necessarily imply improved physical condition. Mine worsened during the service.

“or those that stay for 12 months and get NCO, Sergeant or Officer training, its really worth the money and by money I mean its free).”

Perhaps if the premise is that everyone will just be on the dole as civilians, but some people actually get an education and a career, which are delayed by the service.

By the way, if you don’t get selected to NCO school, will you get your money back?

that picture is not from the 2nd Reconnaissance Company. I’ve spend 12 month in there, and part of that time with jarkko …