Gordon Ramsay credits Finnish food - as utterly disgusting, and talks about carrots and private parts…
@ 7:58 pm By Hank W.
“Some unknown obnoxious limey floated into town peddling his favorite haggis recipes, but got a mouthful of yummy diaperfilling.”
That sums up Gordon Ramseys Helsinki visit. True to his style, the celebrated tv-chef (whatever happened to inebriated tv-chefs?*) ripped a few while visiting Chez Dominique and promoting his new cookbook. Now of course one is awestruck how can even such a renownedly rude twat from the country of boiled intestines say anything against the delicious karjalanpiirakka, let alone call it camel droppings, except when you look at the video. Or rather listen to it. After commenting on the dead lettuce there is a definite “crunch” so I am just shuddering thinking of a sat-in-cafeteria-cling-wrapped-two-days dried up shrivelled industrial exemplary. Yes, and while mämmi is known to be a very contradictive fare, I do wonder if Gordon Ramsays dentures came off after biting into the mummified Karelian pasty as his comment on the “squeaky cheese” leipäjuusto then does beg belief. I don’t much enjoy it with cloudberry as the seeds always get caught in the teeth, but otherwise it is a treat. The MTV3 “morning show” starts with some yabbering, (<= for the stupids: that is called a hyperlink), but the bit on Ramsay’s face when biting into mämmi is worth it. I’d half wished they had given him mustamakkara with lingonberries… and kalakukko of course. Have to explore all the obscure traditional fares with these visiting celebrities now we do. Or don’t we? Could’ve had someone a bit more snappy doing the interview though…
- Do you feed this to donkeys and horses?
- Present company excluded, usually no…
The real treat of the day though is from the Helsingin Sanomat. (<= hey, another hyperlink!) The short video on the page has the sugar at the bottom, Ramsay’s reaction to a question of him not being as attractive as Jamie Oliver is worth it. We can sense the great love for reporters, especially tv-reporters.
Oh well, the Ilta-rags of course extrapolate again on the “issue on Finnish food”. And then they wonder why we have such a low self-esteem. ” What do the foreigners think of us???” Oh who would give a damn? I’m sure that your man making a random visit, you know some generic chav talking of family values and his daughters tits in the same sentence would have washed the yucky taste of the Finnish food from his palate with some rotgut gin, glued his NHS dentures back on and be back sitting happily on the sofa in his carpeted livingroom with his shoes on munching a deep-fried Mars bar belching on the thought of fat Finns that resemble Shrek. So who cares? Of course Celebrity Chefs being of a different category alltogether - I bet you Gordon Ramsay is probably in a five star hotel somewhere preparing for another culinary assault on a nation. Poetical justice if he was in Stockholm getting some surströmming, which I would find immense gratification if they did make him eat that. Then again even the Swedes wouldn’t be that daft, now would they?
Meanwhile Chez Dominique’s chef/owner, Hans Välimäki has sighed in relief. He didn’t get chewed out on his reindeer and other “traditional” delicacies and probably got a few pointers on how to keep the two(!) Michelin Stars. Yes indeed, two - as a surprise to some, even here at the edge of the universe (in an almost-wine-producing-country) there are such restaurants. Not that I would ever go into one, I need to pay for my own, so I am more of an expert on the mummified pasties in the cafeterias. Cling-wrapped dead lettuce isn’t on my favorites list anyway. I am more surprised I recognized who the heck Gordon Ramsay was, I didn’t think I was that much of an old lady as I adamantly *hate* Finnish tv-cooks, but somehow the Ramsay’s Kitchen Nightmares (the original UK version) got me hooked. My favorite ever was the family pub with the cook named Lenin, the poor lad. But otherwise I do watch very little cooking shows, though if I happen to stumble upon Keith Floyd, I tend to watch on. I think one of his more interesting ones was the experience on cooking on a train whistling through France. Now I wonder if they had the crew on the roof and the camera on a dolly as that was one of the most “efficient kitchens” I’ve seen. (Just noticed I publicly admit to watching two cooking shows, maybe I should start quilting. “Iron Chef” doesn’t really count as a cooking show does it???) Ooops…
*Wonder if Floyd ever does Finland, will he be more pickled than the herring?
What a fucking twat dickhead!
He is talking down to the MTV3 lady like she is a retard who can’t understand English.
What a douchebag. He is even more irritating than that Ainsely whatshisname from the BBC, and that is saying a lot.
Floyd is more my type.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
He eats sheeps brains for lunch and can’t take a karelian pie?
What an insulting dickface!!!
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 8:15 pm
Well, the sheep brains aren’t rock hard.
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 8:38 pm
Why did they even bother feeding that guy? Like it was going to be somekind of surprise that he would call Finnish food crap.
Comment by Pekka — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 8:38 pm
What did they do to this fish? Batter it to death?”
“Fish and chips, mate. National dish.”
“More like a natural disaster.”
– Samuel L. Jackson and Robert Carlyle in “Formula 51″
Comment by tim73 — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 8:39 pm
He’s just rude. I don’t find him entertaining in the slightest. I quite agree with Hank, Keith Floyd is far better and much more fun. They should have had him on. Although I suppose getting him to Pasila at 7.00 in the morning would be an upphill task, what with his hangover probably in full swing around then.
I hope that Sweden is next on his Nordic tour, and that they make him try surströmming. Will make mämmi taste like heaven’s own speciality. At very least, I like to think that he is now in his hotel room en suite suffering the after effects of mämmi. Muhahaha.
Comment by JG — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
I must say that I enjoy his Kitchen Nightmares show and even Hells Kitchen is pretty good, but that is for TV audiences, not for live appearances and interviews.
He is a major league asshole and whoever asked him why he was not as handsome as Jamie Oliver should get a standing ovation
What a loser
Comment by uncle sam — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
He must have had a bite at the airport.
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
# 8 was me, I cleaned out cookies today, better get the rum out.
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
He was using a classic ad trick. Few did know that this a-hole was here before his TV talk.
Comment by tim73 — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
He may be all you say he is but he’s also successful around the world, making a fortune doing what he loves and happens to be a bloody great cook. He’s forgotten more about food than most of you will ever know. Now diplomacy might be lacking but then again call a spade a spade. Finnish food, if you can call it that, is poor. The lack of quality and availability of ingredients is one thing I will never understand. Admittedly it is slowly improving but that only tells you just how bad it has been before. Yuk
Comment by Punter — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
The (for the stupids) URL could use a bit less http// action. And it wants some damn MTV3 plugin…but, I don’t need to watch it to imagine the savaging food outside of CD received. You should be thankful he didn’t go into a grocery store or an office cafeteria. Jesus christ on a pogo stick, just imagine what he would have done with that slimey grey mass known as läskisöösi.
Having spent a bit of time researching and cooking/baking quite a few of the more traditional Finnish foods I can say that I was mystified at how infrequently people cook ( I think Saarioinen is the national dish these days) and how they don’t know anything about how or why the traditional foods are, well, traditional. Those who can cook make something less regional and those who can’t get dinner at the R-Kioski. It begs the question why folks take such cooking theatre personally when so many care so little about what might be nominally considered the ‘national cuisine.’
Comment by hfb — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
@11 so what’s your point ?
One can be successfull and still be an asshole…He also not too bright as he lost sales in Finland just by making a 10 second stupid comment.
Comment by uncle sam — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
Btw Floyd has been in Finland…right? When he was visint Norway and other nordic countries or is my memory playing with me.
“I must say that I enjoy his Kitchen Nightmares show and even Hells Kitchen is pretty good, but that is for TV audiences, not for live appearances and interviews.”
Agree on that and yes i’m a bit more in to Floyd as well.
Comment by Random — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
visnt=visiting
Comment by Random — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
Well, if he is famous of being a mulquist in his cooking shows, shouldn’t people demand their money back if he would come over and turn out to be awfully nice.
That said, they should rename his street in Munkkiniemi…
“…slimey grey mass known as läskisöösi.”
Noo, that must be tilliliha, awful waste of tilli and liha. Proper läskisoosi is brown and tasty.
Comment by Antti rn — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
Punter, he spit food out on a plate on national television in a country where he was a guest (and trying to sell books and TV shows I might add). The guy is obviously a cunt and so is anyone who defends his kind of behavior.
His “schtick” bites pubic lice.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
#13- My point is that he most probably couldn’t care less what Fnland thinks of him, he is what he is and that’s SUCCESSFUL. That has worked for him around the world and I really don’t think he will change because a few Finns may be offended. As for losing sales in Finland….. Come on, the money he risks losing in Finland in this case would hardly be noticed in the Ramsay household. Get over yourself.
And as for Dave, he spits food out in his own kitchen if he doesn’t like it so why not here? I too have spat food out onto my plate and had it returned to the kitchen. If it’s shit you don’t have to eat it. Taste anything but eat it and act? Never. If he had done that you’d all be having a go saying what a dickhead actor he was. I really don’t think one can judge a person based on their TV persona.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 12:10 am
I repeat the second sentence of entry number 17. Twice.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 12:13 am
How shallow and weak is the character of anyone offended by Gordon Ramsay expressing his personal opinion about a “dish?” That is the problem here, anyone critical of anything Finnish, particularly if they’re foreign, is labelled that way. Even if most of you would agree with his opinion of mämmi. If you’re a Finn it’s okay but if you’re not then watch out.
I can see Finns tonight crying in a drunken stupor “Gordon Ramsay doesn’t like us, no-one likes us. Let’s cut our wrists or start a fight” Gee, this darkness really gets to you people. Buy a light.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 12:22 am
17: Ditto.
Comment by Herkku — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 12:22 am
Ramsay rules. Watched all seasons of Hell’s kitchen and he doesn’t like anyones food if it’s not his own, so no worries. Besides you have to be pretty positive if you give up mämmi up for tasting and expect the answer to be something else than “crap or something to put up wallpapers with”. I hate that gooey shit myself as well. I think it’s really great that whenever someone comes to Finland, all the bitch reporters start the interview by giving a spoon of mämmi to the interviewee. Really something to start off with the right foot. Ramsay’s probably the only one who tasted it anyway, everyone else have been like “I’m not eating that”. And I don’t wonder. Only Finnish specialty is what looks like crap-in-a-box, would you have some if you didn’t know what it is? Traditional my ass. If you only got shit to offer, ask good questions instead.
Comment by Keksi — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 12:29 am
Strange that Dave, of all people, is so offended. Come on, Ramsay makes his money being an abusive fuck. No wonder Punty is so eager to suck his dick. They have a lot in common, save success.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 1:12 am
Listen, it’s not the anti-finnish deal… I don’t even like lakka and have never tried squeaky cheese. It’s just that I can recognize a cock when I see one, and that guy is one.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 1:41 am
Apart from a few dishes, traditional Finnish food is nothing to write home about. The recipes date from a time when red meat was the utmost luxury, fresh ingredients were unavailable for most of the year, and spices were largely unheard of (the fresh, top-quality ingredients hype is a recent invention). Can’t blame Ramsay and others who find them horrible. Ever wonder why pizza and pasta and other ‘foreign’ foods instantly became so popular?
Ramsay is an asshole though. It’s his thing that sets him apart.
Comment by aet75 — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 2:15 am
“Proper läskisoosi is brown and tasty.”
Antti, I might go as far as brown with you on this one.
I still have nightmares of getting a plate of that stuff at the work cafeteria and having all my nearby dining mates trying not to giggle as I gagged on the first mouthful. Oh god, the thought of it. It is, I think, the only local dish that I spat out and would rather starve than ever try again. I’d choke down lutefisk first.
Comment by hfb — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 2:29 am
So Ramsay has money and if far more famous that I will ever be, but he really showed his true colors when asked the question about Jamie Oliver.
Fine, he doesnt have to like other people’s food but in my opinion he showed very poor taste by directly making an offensive remark on the Finnish people character by saying something like “Only in Helsinki would they ask him such a fucking question.”
I bet he would keep his mouth shut had some NY wiseass asked him that same witty question in a visit to Manhattan
Comment by uncle sam — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 7:32 am
@12 And it wants some damn MTV3 plugin…but, I don’t need to watch it to imagine the savaging food outside of CD received. You should be thankful he didn’t go into a grocery store or an office cafeteria.
Whoopsedaisy.. yeah, the mac plugin is a bit of a bitch. And the feed isn’t that versatile, And by the looks of it he *is* in the MTV3 cafeteria. I’d been probably saying a few unpronouncable things of some prefab mummified pirogis as well…
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 8:11 am
Hey, Finland has the best bread in the world. Jälkiuunileipä, ruisleipä, rieska, näkkileipä, … all kinds of stuff made of rye, wheat, oats, barley, malt, yeast, etc. which are flat, fluffy, shaped like wheels, hard as a rock, chewy, etc. and taste sour, sweet, mild, malty, etc. And you can get bread here that is Moroccan, French, American, Swedish, German, Finnish, and so forth in style.
The bread in the UK and USA is pathetic in comparison. It is all the same toaster bread marketed with different names. Yawn.
Some people from Germany, France and Switzerland have claimed those countries have better bread, but I still have not seen any evidence.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 9:53 am
Hank W.: that was a well written article. It made me laugh.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 9:55 am
#23- Why do you have to take a comment and turn it into a personal insult full of vile and filth? To make such a comment and insult is to me a true picture of yourself. You, as you say, are an offensive F too but the difference is Ramsay is good at what he does while you on the other hand are……….. Well nothing. You almighty Finn. Go and swing your cat around that 60m flat of yours you winner.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 9:56 am
“I still have nightmares of getting a plate of that stuff at the work cafeteria…”
Ah, the work cafeteria explains it all. I’m talking about my ultra-karelian granma’s läskisoosi that goes right to your arteries and kills you at early 40’s with a smile on your face.
“Only in Helsinki would they ask him such a fucking question.”
They surely let him get away too easy with that one. NYT-supplement of the competing media conglomerate should have at least asked him to rate the hairiness of his arse.
Comment by Antti rn — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 10:20 am
Keith Floyd is my pikkuserkku.(his grandfather and mine were bothers).
He has visited Finland but only as a tourist.
He liked Finnish food or at least at one place he said was good:
“If that was traditional Finnish Food..it has my vote!”.
The place he was refering to was “Salve” which is somewhere down in the docks area.
Gordon Ramsey earns his crust by using the gimmick of being “fucking rude”..I am also sure that he is just the same off camera.
Keith Floyd..off camera…is just the same..full of fun and wine.
Comment by karhu — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 10:36 am
@29
This is the problem with Finns… poor marketing.
I could not agree with you more on that Finland has the best bread and best selection anywhere in the world.
Check this link out from Poilane, which most people think is the best bread in the world, sihtileipä for about 10X the price in Helsinki and not nearly as good.
But, since it is French bread, then it must be worth the price, right? Bet Gordon Ramsey and 99% of you out there thrashing Finnish food didn’t know this either
So here is the link and call for your order. Operators are standing by to get your credit card number
http://www.poilane.fr/index.php?index_module=listings&index_theme=english&index_template=en_produit_bdd.php&product_id=2
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 11:57 am
I once described traditional Finnish blood pancackes, which are delicious BTW, to a Scottish friend of a friend. I tried to let her down easy, saying that the food looks weird but tastes good and that she should try it. She gave me a bemused look and said “Honey, I come from th land of haggis.” So no need to let her down easy on strange local delicacies.
If you spit our your food and bash on your hosts, you’re a rude prick with no manners no matter how famous or successful you are. End of story.
If Gordon Ramsay came into my home and talked about my cooking (which I do quite frequently, thank you hfb) that way, I’d take his Michelin stars and use them to rip him a new one.
Comment by Anzi — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
Best bread? Yep I love all the fresh bakeries with that smell of bread at 6am. So typical of Finland. Oh wait, you mean the bread baked in K Citymarket and S Market??? Best bread? Another one to add to the list.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
#31: Nothing like a foul-mouthed troll with his feelings hurt.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
Foul-mouthed? Me? Nah, I have a better grasp of the English language than that. I can be but choose not to online generally. Now if we ever spoke elsewhere than online that may change but in the meantime swing your cat, meow.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
Wow, look at all of the people getting worked up over some random rude asshole not liking Finnish food. Do you think the British really give a shit that no one likes the thought of boiled sheep intestines and lamb brains?
The only thing I really agree with people on is he should have just eaten the food. Take it like a man instead of spitting out like a bitch.
Karjalanpiirakka with that egg shit on it is good… after you lived here long for so long. The only reason why you end up liking it is because you want to try something new after eating the same exact shit at every buffet, wedding, birthday, Ylioppilas, Juhannus, etc. party you’ve ever been to in Finland. Mämmi is shit. It’s looks like baby shit and it is fucking disgusting.
There’s a reason why the Finnish culture is unique, it’s because no one else outside of Finland wants to partake in it. That just means more karjalanpiirakka for everyone else.
Comment by gopha — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
“If Gordon Ramsay came into my home and talked about my cooking (which I do quite frequently, thank you hfb) that way, I’d take his Michelin stars and use them to rip him a new one.” - Anzi
Actually, he lost some of his “star” status in NYC only got 2 stars at a new restaurant there, and he was soooo whiny about it in this New Yorker article
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/04/02/070402fa_fact_buford/?currentPage=all
(scroll down to the bottom of the story to see the result of the restaurant review by the Times.
“It’s sssssooooo haaarrd in NYC….” Boo hoo, Ramsay. He comes here and acts big but he is a little council estate success story that will end in tears. Ever hear of Karma, Punter?
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
I remember when he traveled to the Isle of Man, to cook for Jeremy Clarkson’s family in some TV special or something… It’s a small wonder that the whole world didn’t collapse when two such enormous twats met.
Still, they make entertaining TV shows, so what the hey.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
It’s not about the food itself, gopha, it’s about being a mensch. The press should have taken a bit more piss out of him, like asking how he learned to cook in the council flat where he grew up.
Something that would have hurt at least as much as asking him about his relatively bad looks compared to Jamie Olvier.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
regarding the mammi thing, he was asking what it was made of (as it came in a box, and looked slightly frozen still, i would say e-numbers
). Probably would have been useful/helpful to tell him.
Also, i have heard that Ethiopians (or possibly one of the other african nations) have something VERY similar.
From his example on that clip i would not rate him very highly as a cook - no desire to experiment with tastes a textures.
Comment by mike — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Actually mämmi originates from northern Germany, where it used to be one of the permitted foods during the easter fast. Locals have probably long since forgotten it but Finland has once again acted as a freezer, just like the finnish language has kept some very old germanic loan words in their original form.
Mämmi represents medieval “food high-tech” in a sense that the method of preparation gives a sweet taste which used to be a big deal as the sugar was not invented yet.
Comment by Antti rn — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
“…Finland has the best bread in the world. Jälkiuunileipä, ruisleipä, rieska, näkkileipä, … all kinds of stuff made of rye, wheat, oats, barley, malt, yeast, etc. which are flat, fluffy, shaped like wheels, hard as a rock, chewy, etc. and taste sour, sweet, mild, malty, etc”
Quite so. I miss the bread a lot and am still trying to make a decent rye whenever I get the chance. However, as far as my research suggested a while back is that there are few distinctively or uniquely Finnish breads and I’m not even entirely sure that the ruislimppa and its cousins are wholly a product of local culture. I’d go as far as saying that 95% or more of the baking culture is a derivative of Swedish baking much of which came to them by way of Germany. Much of what is thought of as traditionally Finnish comes from Savo and Karelia and I don’t know enough Russian to find out if it’s derivative of Russian culture or not though my guess is that it is.
Mike - Frozen mämmi is actually rather preservative free as it is malted and slightly acidic. And it is Persia, not Ethiopia, that is thought to have made something very similar centuries earlier. http://www.axis-of-aevil.net/archives/2005/03/warm_cowpies.html
Comment by hfb — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
Well, I don’t know how much of that is true, but both the quality and selection of bread (and indeed sausages and cheese whilst we are here) is worse in Sweden than in Finland.
Comment by JG — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
Worse how? I found pretty much the exact same bread selection whenever I was in Stockholm.
Comment by hfb — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
Dave, I thought you were only married to a Finn, not a Finn yourself. The envy in your comments however leads me to think you’ve been here way too long as you truely are starting to sound like one (heaven forbid)
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 4:54 pm
No, there is not. I have lived in Stockholm, and the bread is not as good. Even the Fazer bread baked at Fazer’s bakery in Sweden somehow lacked something. Most of the ‘mainstream’ Swedish bread tastes far more “processed” than that here in Finland. There is also far less proper dark and rye breads on offer.
Comment by JG — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Dave, I thought you were only married to a Finn, not a Finn yourself. The envy in your comments however leads me to think you’ve been here way too long as you truely are starting to sound like one (heaven forbid)
That’s rather puzzling, as you yourself Punter were only just moaning about Ã…landers not having to do military service in the post on wine making. And that they do “nothing for us” . So, you are “us” when it suits your argument and a foreigner when not? It rather sounds as if you have caught the same bug that you would rather heaven forbade. I assume you have done your part for the defence of “our” land?
Comment by JG — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
@36 Best bread? Yep I love all the fresh bakeries with that smell of bread at 6am. So typical of Finland. Oh wait, you mean the bread baked in K Citymarket and S Market??? Best bread? Another one to add to the list.
Uh, just because the in-your-face for-sale public tax records, the guilty-till-proven-innocent tattle-tale police-your-neighbour tax collection system and so forth have ruined the Finnish entrepreneurial spirit, it doesn’t make the bread that is in the huge-parking-lot-drive-to supermarket bread bad. It is still the best bread in the world, or does Australia have something better that I don’t know about?
When I drive to Walmart in the USA, there are 20 types of the same toaster bread, each with a different name, but with an identical taste.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
JG as an Australian citizen I am unable to do anything for “your” land. Apart from that, my service history at home would also make it unlikely I would have to do anything for your land either. Apart from that, a 6 month boy scout stint in a play army isn’t that attractive.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
#51- Not sure actually as I try to keep carbs to a minimum in my diet. I’m not a great bread eater but I do enjoy whenever I’m home a fresh baked loaf of bread collected at 6am from my local bakery. Come to think of it, it will be one of my first purchases when I get back home in 5 weeks time
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
52, Punter, I see. That is fair enough, as an Australian citizen I doubt many would expect you to do anything towards that end. However, it does seem a bit hypercritical to criticise Ã…landers in the way you did from that position. The whole they do “nothing for us” one day, and then dissociating yourself with being part of “us” at the next opportunity is also a slightly odd and inconsistent position if you are then going to criticise Dave for taking exactly the same view of his relationship to Finland as you did yourself in the Wine thread.
Comment by JG — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
JG, sorry to rain on your party but my quote was
“If asked, 99% of the mainland Finnish speaking population would say the same thing. They do nothing for us, think themselves different from us and have a percetion of being “Swedish†anyway so let them be.”
That is 99% of mainland Finns think that way. I certainly don’t consider myself and certainly would never describe myself as an “us” meaning Finnish. As for the military, I think it is wrong in a country where there is conscription that a particular part of the population is excluded but don’t confuse that with supporting Finland’s conscription. That is a relic of a different time and totally useless in todays world. I just feel that as long as it is the system and Finnish men have to do it, so should the “Finns” of Ã…land.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
Aha, ok, I apologise. I don’t think you are right though that 99% of the Finns would say that. 100% of the members of Suomalaisuuden liiton’s members certainly would though, which is why your comments sounded as if you had been associating with them. Especially your implication (meant or otherwise) that their views shouldn’t count because they speak Swedish.
As for the military, I think it is wrong in a country where there is conscription that a particular part of the population is excluded but don’t confuse that with supporting Finland’s conscription.
Immigrants like you are a part of the population also. You could argue that full-time residents should also have a duty to defence of the country. I personally don’t think that though, but one could make the argument (as much as the quite valid argument that conscription should be abolished, which I also don’t personally agree with).
In any case, you should acquaint yourself with the League of Nations decision and the crisis in Finnish-Swedish relations that lead to it, to understand why it is that Ã…land is demilitarised. It’s because of an international agreement. Indeed, only yesterday the Swedish government was forced to apologise for a Swedish military place that violated the Finnish airspace above Ã…land.
Comment by JG — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
“Mämmi represents medieval “food high-tech†in a sense that the method of preparation gives a sweet taste which used to be a big deal as the sugar was not invented yet.”
Sugar was invented in ancient times in Asia, and arrived in Europe with the Moors and in a larger scale during the crusades. Rare and expensive as hell, but it was known.
Comment by aet75 — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 6:40 pm
Punter, you’re not a terribly good reader, are you?
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 7:44 pm
“…Rare and expensive as hell, but it was known.”
Thanks for the correction.
“…just because the in-your-face for-sale public tax records, the guilty-till-proven-innocent tattle-tale police-your-neighbour tax collection system and so forth have ruined the Finnish entrepreneurial spirit…”
Awww…you southerners(?) give up your entrepreneurial spirit too easily. In Kajaani you just go to Pekka Heikkinen’s bakery for freshly baked woodstove rye bread.
Comment by Antti rn — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 7:58 pm
What about finnish sausages? Best in the world, eh? Thay make them by blowing the last 2% of meat off a carcass
with a high-pressure water hose. Then the meat is scraped from the floor and stuffed with flour and fat in 6:1 ratio into a plastic peel. And this they call a sausage and sell for 8 euros a kilo. Kind of tells everything about finnish food.
Comment by mh — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
http://www.uglyfood.com/2006/12/04/lihamakaronilaatikko-a-finnish-pasta-casserole/
Comment by mh — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
Hö. makaronilaatikko is good. Maksalaatikko with the evil raisins then again is an abomination.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 9:40 pm
JG - I think Fazer ships the pre-made dough to Sweden just like they do to all the groceries around Finland where all they have to do is bake it thus the difference would be largely in your head. It’s a bit like the experiment I conducted on my colleagues with the Runeberg tarts where one in four of them preferred the stale store-bought Fazer cakes because it was the only form they’d ever enjoyed them and so associated that particular taste with runeberg tarts. Maybe I hung out in the wrong bakeries but the selection was nearly the same in Stockholm. Does the Swedish Cafe Ekberg stuff taste different or more processed? Just for the record, have you read the list of ingredients on any of the Fazer or grocery breads? If you or someone you know didn’t make it the liklihood of it being ‘processed’ is nearly a 100% certainty.
“@36 Best bread? Yep I love all the fresh bakeries with that smell of bread at 6am. So typical of Finland. Oh wait, you mean the bread baked in K Citymarket and S Market??? Best bread? Another one to add to the list. ….it doesn’t make the bread that is in the huge-parking-lot-drive-to supermarket bread bad. It is still the best bread in the world,”
Well…I wouldn’t go quite that far as Germany and France really do have a far more mature and varied bread culture. There are those of us who joke that the ruislimppu was the model for ‘battlebread’ if you get the reference.
That shit is dangerous when stale.
Still, the complete absence of bakeries is rather curious. Even my husband finds the lack rather disappointing since he has mentioned that there also used to be butchers and many other types of shops that have since been replaced by either a hair salon or rug shop or, as in one case, both in one.
Comment by hfb — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
MH - LOL…I don’t know which is more classic, the Saarioinen plastic food that tops the list of grocery items sold in Finland or the humourless pissed-off Finns telling them it’s not meant to be fried but microwaved.
Comment by hfb — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
#38: You seem to have an obsession with apartment size. Funny, usually it’s with cars. FWIW, my car is not any bigger than I need either.
I’d quite like to swing the crate of Grange you owe me, mate.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
“MH - LOL…I don’t know which is more classic, the Saarioinen plastic food that tops the list of grocery items sold in Finland or the humourless pissed-off Finns telling them it’s not meant to be fried but microwaved.” - hfb (a resident of the country that gave the world Hot Pockets)
Comment by Dave the Defibrillator — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 10:13 pm
Come to think of it Frank I will be swigging on it in a very short time indeed. I owe you sweet F all you cheap freeriding Git.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
JG - I think Fazer ships the pre-made dough to Sweden just like they do to all the groceries around Finland where all they have to do is bake it thus the difference would be largely in your head.
HFB, It is of course possible that you are right, but I don’t think so. I believe Fazer Sverige is in effect run as a seperate unit, there are certainly quite a lot of Fazer products that seem unique to Sweden (and many that are missing from Sweden). But of course, you could be right as I say. To be honest, it was a poor example as I don’t buy Fazer bread even in Finland - so I would be the wrong person to compare anyway, for me it has to be the bread of Henrikssons bakery in Porvoo (which is available in more or less all supermarkets in this part of the country).
But in any case, the bread really is poorer on average than Finland. It reminds me in many ways of the bread selection in the UK (which was even worse, at least when I lived there), sliced white processed toaster style bread is far more the norm in Sweden than in Finland - even in some hotels.
Note, when I say processed, I am mean more that it tastes more processed… naturally I don’t imagine that in Finland all of our bread are the product of some grandmother like figure making it with her own perfect dough hands!
Comment by JG — Wed, Oct 31st, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
“a resident of the country that gave the world Hot Pockets”
Hey, at least we have a sense of humour about it. I think we also gave the world deep fried candy bars, too. That Saarioinen stuff really is gross compared to stuff you make yourself.
JG - The UK doesn’t even have bread as far as I can tell.
I’ll pay more attention next time I’m in Stockholm as there are few freshly baked and still warm loaves of bread that I have been able to pass by in this lifetime. I blame my German half for that. 
And I’ll see what I can find out about the Fazer distribution in Finland and Sweden as it’s possible that it’s different but that would either be on purpose due to taste or a flaw in their quality control.
Comment by hfb — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 12:25 am
hfb, that certainly is Finland, poor food and no sense of humor. Now how can we tie racism into all this, then?
Comment by Drakon — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 1:05 am
Drakon - I think that stick up your arse need adjusting, son.
Comment by hfb — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 1:22 am
“how can we tie racism into all this, then?” - Drakon
Well, I suppose one could assert that the majority of poop on the streets was brought to you by… Saarioinen!
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 1:35 am
JG - The UK doesn’t even have bread as far as I can tell.
Haha, yes, that was my impression too. Finding decent everyday cheese was almost impossible too. Just had to end up paying much more to buy some Norwegian, Danish or Swiss import, which they did seem to have.
Sweden as it’s possible that it’s different but that would either be on purpose due to taste
I joke, well sort of. I am sure what one is used to does play a big roll though in these matters. I am sure that the way falukorv is actually made is not significantly different from HK blue, but that Swedish equivalent just tastes bland to my tongue.
I suspect the different is probably down to taste. That the Swedes have less
That’s not to say that all Swedish food is bad! But I did find the bread and diary products, as well as sausages, to be of a generally inferior quality to Finnish ones. It concerns me deeply that Arla have taken over much of Ingman and, although it’s not Swedish, let’s not even go near talking about Nestle and Valio Ice Cream.
Comment by JG — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 2:21 am
Dave - Oh, I know, the truth stings and burns but there it is. Given the popularity and sales of the dish due to its cheap ubiquity I wouldn’t doubt it at all.
JG - The UK does have decent cheeses, e.g. stilton and many of the cheddars, both of which are dramtically different than the Nordic selection, but in general they are quite bland much like many of the rubber US cheeses in regular groceries around the US. Apparently Valio or its distributors have ceased importing Aura to the US which I’m quite disappointed about. You can find good cheese here, but you have to know where to look and be ready to pay for it. Even so, finding a decent Edam, a.k.a. Swiss, cheese around here is nigh impossible.
And given that the Swedes gave the world exploding tins of herring and enjoy cod soaked in lye until transparent so I would guess they have few tastebuds left to notice if the food tastes good or not.
There’s no accounting for taste; good or bad. 
The selling of so many of the Finnish food and beverage companies is rather a ominous sign…one can always hope that conglomerates keep things the same but they more often than not don’t.
Comment by hfb — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 4:19 am
when someone gives positive press to finland you all lick their ass (O’Brien) and when someone mucks up your national identity you squirm and bitch. No wonder the swedes are far more advanced and the Danes just laugh at you all…you people are like children to the world and play up to anyone who gives you a little attention. You’re finland for crying out loud. Accept it! GO NOKIA!
Comment by Anonymous — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 4:30 am
#75 “when someone gives positive press to finland you all lick their ass (O’Brien) and when someone mucks up your national identity you squirm and bitch.”
What a great way to look at it. So true.
Comment by Punter — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 8:42 am
@ 75 & 76: Probably the same with any small country that’s been through a close fight for existence without anyone taking much notice. But again, I resent the generalization. What kind of juntti circles do you guys mingle in, anyway?
Comment by aet75 — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 9:03 am
@59: Isn’t Kajaani around where the Finnish man set off to kill the intruder when he noticed woodchips floating down the river one day?
Actually, Pekka Heikkinen’s bakery sounds quite good. I will definitely make a point to go there whenever I am driving in the North. We know some people who live in Kainuu, so that is nearby. We are due for a trip to Oulu, Lappland and so on.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 9:38 am
And there is another one. Speaking of juntti circles “Probably the same with any small country that’s been through a close fight for existence without anyone taking much notice.”
I am amazed. I thought you were meant to have a good education system in this country? Why do you always refer back to this “small country and wartime romance and spirit” as if Finland was the only country ever involved in a war? It’s as if Finland and Russia was WW2 or that Finland is the only country to have a large threatening neighbour. Plenty of other countries have had bloody histories too but the difference is they don’t look back and use it to justify there miserable current situation. Rather they use it as a low point never to return to, think themselves lucky and get on with progress.
Comment by Punter — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 10:27 am
“Rather they use it as a low point never to return to, think themselves lucky and get on with progress.” - Punter
You are the one going in circles. This place is changing faster than you have any inkling about because you are a little boy with very little experience (here, at least) and you don’t actually know what you are talking about.
Listen, despite your inaccurate guesstimation that I am a Finnish born person, I am NOT. I grew up in the states and came here for the first time as a wide eyed 21 year old (in 1990).
Finland was unknowingly getting ready to dive into huge unemployment, a relative surge in immigration and a major shift in its domestic social policies.
People heard me speaking english and their heads would whip around, sometimes yell at me, sometimes ask where I was from… And this was on the streets of Helsinki where sometimes today English is the language of choice. This place has become more international and more cosmopolitan in these past 17 years than I could have imagined.
Yes, there is still quite a ways to go, yes there are things I can’t stand about the place, but I reckon that would be true about just about anywhere.
Son, you don’t know shit about “juntti,” except maybe that you, in the end, are one yourself because you are still clinging to the idea that this place will adapt itself to you… And that is the real definition of a juntti, someone who is ignorant enough to believe that the world around them is theirs by proxy, and that the world revolves around them, but they’re too fucking stupid to know that the opposite is true.
You go on and on and on about how shit life is here, but you don’t know what shit is, because either you are a baby boy who just left mamma’s nest and miss shrimp on the barbie and the outback or that you just don’t know what you are talking about.
You have been here for ten minutes.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 11:57 am
Dave, excuse me if you will but allow me to correct a few misconceptions you seem to have.
Firstly we share a few things in common. By my calculations you and I are both the same age. Secondly, I too visited Finland for an “extended time” in early 1990 only to return in late 1991. I moved here in 1993 and so this I’m afraid makes me about as qualified as you to comment on Finland.
As for changes in this place, hell yeah there have been. The problem is the level and pace of change here, particularly when compared to other European nations of both the former East and West. I do enjoy some things about Finland and yes, even as compared to Australia however the problems here and the attitude to criticism of Finland here have not changed. I have made a rather comfortable life for myself and family here however in the envious eyes of Finns this is taken in a negative way. For all the good here it is often overshadowed by problems and attitudes here that people refuse to admit, discuss or act upon.
As for your claim about a shrimp on the barbie, that is as juntti as one can get and suggests your brain has been changed by your environment. Hell that was from around the same time you and I first came to Finland son so wake up. It’s 2007, shrimp on barbies are about as fashionable as Finland is today.
Comment by Punter — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
Well, since you live so comfortably, stop your fecking whining.
I know next to nothing about Australia, Crocodile Dundee
or that fuckhead crocodile hunter who got stabbed in the belly, and I care not a whit.
But your whining gets old, is that a national trait, or just something you’ve developed over the years here?
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 1:35 pm
Klimppisoppa is pretty darn tasty too…
Comment by FinnFreak — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
#75: The result of low national self-esteem and years of brainwashing. Now repeat after me: being born in Finland is like winning the lottery, being born in Finland is like winning the lottery, …
Comment by mh — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
hfb - Sorry, could not help it. It is just that sometimes, just once in a while, you seem a little bit, how would I put it, predictable in your quaint little ways. But that’s nothing to hold against you, I know.
Dave - You are probably right. All those damn Finnish drunks, filthy trousers in their ankles, fouling up perfectly nice parks…
Comment by Drakon — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
@ 79: Sheesh Punter, I’m not talking just about the goddamn war, but also everything that came after it, the cold war period and the humiliation that goes by the name Finlandization that went on until the fall of the Soviet Union. It would be naive to assume that it didn’t take it’s toll on the self-esteem of this nation. It’s not about education, it’s about the mentality of a whole generation of people. I’s no wonder to me that Finns who went through all that are hungry for a little compliment. By junttis I refer to younger people who fail to move on and perpetuate this mentality for no apparent reason (other than being juntti).
Comment by aet75 — Thu, Nov 1st, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
your English is very poor
Comment by whatsitmatter — Fri, Nov 2nd, 2007 @ 11:31 am
…..for aet75….. Stop using the word “juntti” I think you’ve used it enough. Commenting on 75 (which is me BTW) Resenting the generalization? What generalization? Finns are secretly bitchy. They go home, make a cup of coffee in some iittala ceramic cup and stare out the window silently hoping for the demise of the one whom has done them “wrong” or succeeding more than them. It’s a fucking fact. So you can resent all you want it still doesn’t eliminate the fact that you people really want to be something to the world and when you want that so badly you will easily be insulted or angered or cower behind some booze. Now tell me I am generalizing!!!
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Nov 2nd, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
I’m telling you, you are generalizing. I don’t own any Iittala cups. And I can say juntti all I want. Juntti, juntti, juntti. Jub jub.
And Whatsitmatter: Wow. You look that up in the dicks-oh-nairy, all by your self?
Comment by aet75 — Fri, Nov 2nd, 2007 @ 7:58 pm
for aet75…….OK, so I’ll make my point a bit more simple so you understand (not an insult, I just thought I wan’t making myself understandable enough). For my first time in Finland, I got a book with all these broad generalizations about the Finnish character. How they are silent, passive, no one speaks in public, and all the ones you know I know. Anyway, these are traits that Finns themselves agree upon and in a way is very proud of. So why as an observer of your society I cannot make generalizations about things I have found to be so, over the course of six years? And for that matter, Finns are not silent or passive. Meet the ones in NYC. Finally, if I was given a dime for everytime some silly fool strikes up a conversation with me for no appearent reason other than the fact that I am obviously not finn, well let’s say, I would be able to buy an iittala cup with that money. Now, generalizatons are a part of common sense and if we didn’t make them then we would suffer socially on many different levels. Your usage of generalization is self serving and stupid. I really hope you can distinguish from the two. Now I have to go to Stockmanns and buy some food. Everything is fucking expensive in Finland. Am I generalizing? Exactly!!!!!!
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Nov 2nd, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
We got no quarrel here. You are welcome to make all the generalizations you want, but do acknowledge them as such. What I don’t appreciate is someone telling me how I think or act because I’m a Finn. I know it’s just semantics, but it gets to me (and I admit being guilty of the same).
Comment by aet75 — Fri, Nov 2nd, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
When Ramsay commented about karerlian pie. “Do you feed this to donkeys and horses?
I think the reporter should have said yes to this question.
Comment by yoyo — Sun, Nov 4th, 2007 @ 8:20 am
umm… you guys… should calm down… juntti apparently is like emo… beyond that…. umm seriously be civil.
Finland, not exactly a social butterfly, many finns have a odd emotional make up an thats why they act the way they do sometimes in strange circumstances, we tend to be more emotionally cold an not to develop as much emotionally at times…. perhaps something in our bloodlines, perhaps more likely from being in the frozen north where its night strait out for 3 months more or less and 7 or so months of twilight and daylight, you know that does things to the psychi, its wonderful but the emotional stability can get messed up, so try not to freak out so much about it…
oh plus… reading through this you totally forget about what this is about half way down.
anyways hes a chef an he’s not gona complement most things, they shouldnt have even recorded his vis
it, if he wants to check out restaurants, let it be silently. \\\
Have a good day!!!
Comment by AleksisMichael — Tue, Nov 6th, 2007 @ 7:37 am
At the beginning of Hell’s Kitchen , having tasted something he did not like , Ramsay snarled : I want back to London.
I want back to London … for fuck’s sake prick , what’s holding you ?
Comment by Matti — Tue, Nov 6th, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
Been to Finland three times….food is worst I’ve ever tasted. “Tasted”….wasn’t really much to taste…no flavour…drops onto plates reminiscing noises similar to those that come from the bathroom…Jacques Chirac was right when he said Finland has the worst food in Europe (British food being only second to that - although it was noted that on a state visit here he demolished the plate no complaints).
And to the prick that wrote about “boiled intestines”.
We have some of the greatest food and restaurants in the world…certainly matching those of France and Italy.
Hence why there’s so many British TV-Chefs with global reputations.
Comment by British Kurkku — Wed, Nov 7th, 2007 @ 12:01 am
Now now my dear mates, if you find the food not to your taste, do not eat it. Then and again, we will find elitistic fucks who think that their opinion on food is somehow made grander by an audience. I say, who gives a fuck on a random motherfucker. I can say I do not like a certain food, and does that give me anykind of divine opinion?
No it does not, and sadly, most of the people who even agree with an celebrity, find themselves in a peculiar situation where their own opinion doesn’t count for shit, and that of an celebrity does.
Maybe it’s time to just throw away the shit that we call the general concensus of the misguided youth and call em what they are, misguided idiots who will gladly sign any petition ever created by a person who’s personality overrides themselves.
Good going guys, I hope you or most of you, will find a situation in your lives where you find yourselves being rated by a bunch of people who will just say: fuck you and your taste, you do not know shit.
Comment by Think about it — Wed, Nov 7th, 2007 @ 1:51 am
British Kurkku said the food was awful. Then you say you’ve been here thrice. Why do you keep coming back ?
Comment by Matti — Wed, Nov 7th, 2007 @ 8:54 am
#97: Maybe he likes some other aspect of Finland? It’s so typically finnish to demand total acceptance from foreigners visiting here. You should like our food, like our corrupted government and our public tax records or else get the fuck out. Most finns are total rednecks.
Comment by mh — Wed, Nov 7th, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Sometimes when negative comments are repaetedly made about something, it may turn out that there is some truth in those comments.
Finns, if several people have said that the food here is bad, then most likely , it is. I am sure that Chirac has tasted lots of national dishes in all parts of the world. Why is it that Finnish food is the only one he criticized? MAYBE BECAUSE FINNISH FOOD IS INDEED UNPALATABLE!!
One Finnish favourite is Karelian pies. I still find it hard to understand how anyone can like boiled rice mixed with butter and cream, baked in a rye crust. Rice is such a cheap staPle food , that no other nation has taken the time to put little bits of rice in a shell, and bake it!!
Finns need to make use of more seasonings when cooking!Onions are not even widely used here.
AND FOR PETE’S SAKE, YOU FINNS NEED TO TRAVEL AND TASTE THE CUISINE OF THE REST OF THE WORLD.
Comment by wonderfully different — Fri, Nov 9th, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
What do you mean almost-wine-producing country?
We produce wine in Finland, don’t you know? At least i would have expected that you’ve had some Elysee yet.
Comment by jr — Sat, Nov 10th, 2007 @ 10:55 am
“Sometimes when negative comments are repaetedly made about something, it may turn out that there is some truth in those comments.
Finns, if several people have said that the food here is bad, then most likely , it is.”
Well, more people have said that it’s good, so maybe it is.
Comment by jr — Sat, Nov 10th, 2007 @ 10:57 am
Mr. Wonderful:
“Sometimes when negative comments are repaetedly made about something, it may turn out that there is some truth in those comments.”
Does that also apply to foreigners in Finland?
“AND FOR PETE’S SAKE, YOU FINNS NEED TO TRAVEL AND TASTE THE CUISINE OF THE REST OF THE WORLD.”
May I inquire about the number of countries you have visited?
“We produce wine in Finland, don’t you know? At least i would have expected that you’ve had some Elysee yet.”
It isn’t wine as far as the EU is concerned, since only wine made from grapes qualifies. Nevertheless, Elysée gives pretty decent value for money.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Nov 11th, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
My life’s been completely unremarkable recently. I haven’t been up to anything. I just don’t have much to say. I’ve just been letting everything pass me by. Shrug. I don’t care.
Comment by asian movie pass — Mon, May 26th, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
You are loved and cared for *group hug*
Comment by AleksisMichael — Mon, Jun 9th, 2008 @ 9:33 am