Netherlands to ban psychedielic mushrooms
Bummer, dude…
The Dutch government said Friday that it will ban the sale of hallucinatory mushrooms, rolling back one element of the country’s permissive drug policy after a series of high-profile negative incidents.
[...] Psilocybin, the main active chemical in the mushrooms, has been illegal under international law since 1971. However, mushrooms that are fresh and unprocessed in any way have continued to be sold legally in the Netherlands, on the theory that it was impossible to determine how much of the naturally occurring substance any given mushroom contains.
[...] Murat Kucuksen, whose farm Procare supplies about half the psychedelic mushrooms on the Dutch market, said he stood to lose several million euros invested in setting up his legal growing facilities. He predicted the trade will move underground, prices will rise, and dealers will sell dried mushrooms or LSD as a substitute, with no guidance for tourists. “So you’ll have a rise in incidents but they won’t be recorded as mushroom-related, and the politicians can declare victory,” he said.
i dont blame them. i don’t think that magic mushrooms are really compatible with working society. there are enought social problems and bad behaviour with alcohol.
we don’t need kids who are completely insane for hours after consuming these mushrooms.
Comment by Pekka Eskimo — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
Amen
Comment by Plas — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
Since both alcohol and mushrooms are legal in Amsterdam, I wonder which drug is the bigger problem for them?
Comment by Phil — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
I think they made a good point at the end - people’s taste for mushrooms won’t change with this law, now they’ll be forced to purchase them from shady dealers and they’ll never exactly how safe and how potent they are.
Comment by Phil — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
I hardly believe that a free market for drugs could lead to anything good. The only thing it would result in would be more drug addicts, resulting in more violence.
I believe more in a Singaporean approach to drugs.
Comment by Mikael — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
I personally know one dude who made and drank mushroon tea with his friends. He got the last of the tea with all the dregs in it, overdosed and ruined his liver. Nowadays, he has a liver from a car accident victim who donated it.
I don’t recommend “shrooms”. If you want to get high, go swim in an “avanto” and to the sauna several times. That will get you high.
Comment by sirkuspelle — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
““trade will move underground, prices will rise, and dealers will sell dried mushrooms or LSD as a substitute, with no guidance for tourists. “So you’ll have a rise in incidents but they won’t be recorded as mushroom-related, and the politicians can declare victory,—
Exactly right. Instead that people will go to Amsterdam to get high every once in a while, the trade will spread to all other major cities in Europe. In those places there will be no information for safe usage.
Making drugs illegal has caused chaos everywhere that it’s been tried. The USA is a textbook example. I hope Europe will take the smarter path.
Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
Mikael:
I believe more in a Singaporean approach to drugs.
The Singaporean approach to public spitting, not to mention urination, would to a lot of good in Helsinki. Do you know that they have a doctor attending the canings? Not for the safety and well-being of the one being punished, but to wake him up, should he pass out from the pain and fail to experience the punishment in full.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are also banned. Go Singapore!
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
This blog seems to have a few recurring themes.
Several species of magic mushrooms grow wild in Finland, most notably Psilocybe semilanceata. Of course, no self-respecting libertarian would go picking them on anyone else’s land.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
On Singapore’s drug policy in the Good Old Days:
http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/HISTORY/om/om4.htm
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 10:13 pm
“I think they made a good point at the end - people’s taste for mushrooms won’t change with this law, now they’ll be forced to purchase them from shady dealers and they’ll never exactly how safe and how potent they are.”
this is where you are wrong. i don’t know any shady drug dealers. i’m too middle class and scared to buy any drugs from shady drug dealers. if i could get my hands on drugs freely i would ruin my life with all kinds of drugs.
my taste for magic-mushrooms has everything to do with the law that forbids their sale in Finland.
Comment by Pekka Eskimo — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 10:48 pm
#11: Do you think that there are great numbers of people who are dying to use all kinds of illegal drugs but are just too afraid to? I am asking out of genuine curiosity.
FWIW, regarding getting high, if there is a will, there is a way.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sat, Oct 13th, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
Shrooms are no big whoop….In terms of drugs, I’d rather see a Finland filled with giddy and slightly nauseous shroomers than all the drunks as hallucinogens are generally non-addictive and, especially mushrooms, rather mellowing. WTF are the Dutch thinking with outlawing them?
Sirkuspelle - No offense to your friend, but people who do drugs without doing their homework always blame their negligence on the drug rather than themselves. Outlawing the drug only seems to multiply these sorts of incidents.
Comment by hfb — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 5:41 am
i’m too middle class and scared to buy any drugs from shady drug dealers. if i could get my hands on drugs freely i would ruin my life with all kinds of drugs.
Seriously? Alcohol is freely available, I take it you drink yourself to death? And you obviously smoke 3 packs a day, right?
Comment by Phil — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
.In terms of drugs, I’d rather see a Finland filled with giddy and slightly nauseous shroomers than all the drunks as hallucinogens are generally non-addictive and, especially mushrooms, rather mellowing.
Yeah I think so too. I remember the hippies down the hall of freshman dorm used to do them. They’d sit in their rooms and listened to shitty music and giggled. They’d never go stumble around on public trams and annoy people. Although, Baltimore doesn’t have trams.
Comment by Phil — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
I am yet to hear a scientifically explained, ethically consistent and intuitive argument for banning psychedelic mushrooms. Most of what I see is “It’s an illegal drug! Boo!”
Comment by sepisp — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
“we don’t need kids who are completely insane for hours after consuming these mushrooms.”
I completely agree with you - but, i think that other drugs and alcohol shouldn’t be in the hands of kids. not JUST mushrooms.
“I personally know one dude who made and drank mushroon tea with his friends. He got the last of the tea with all the dregs in it, overdosed and ruined his liver. Nowadays, he has a liver from a car accident victim who donated it.”
I’m sorry, but it seems that this dude whom you know probably consumed a poisonous species and NOT psilocybin mushrooms. psilocybin basically increases seratonin in your brain and doesn’t have any serious side effects in regards to a person’s liver. The toxicity of psilocybin is very low and there haven’t been any reported deaths in both recreational and medicine related intake.
speaking of medicine related - psilocybin mushrooms, when taken at a low dose, can help combat the pain people get from cluster headaches.
“this is where you are wrong. i don’t know any shady drug dealers. i’m too middle class and scared to buy any drugs from shady drug dealers. if i could get my hands on drugs freely i would ruin my life with all kinds of drugs.”
just so you know, growing mushrooms or even having the knowledge of knowing which mushroom species contain psilocybin is pretty hard work. there are over 14 psilocybin species found here in Finland and over 75% of them are very difficult to find. so i highly doubt that the people who do sell shrooms are “shady drug dealers” and often times i’ve seen these “drug dealers” selling it to middle class folks like you. you seem to choose the wrong words in your argument just like your “kids” quote. But you know, there are tons of entheogens out there which can alter your state which you CAN buy legally and in mass quantities…
Comment by boo — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 3:03 pm
PS - entheogens have been used for thousands of years by different groups of people whether it’s for shamanistic, religious, spiritual, etc purposes.
what you don’t hear is that most of the drug related deaths and dependencies that do occur so often today are from those drugs which are LEGAL i.e. pharmaceuticals, especially pain killers. if you were to take the illicit drugs off the blackmarket and legalize them i’m sure there would be far less deaths that would occur from these drugs. we’ve already learned from the prohibition times of alcohol, that it simply doesn’t work. all the governments of the western world want is control - keep the safer drugs illegal and have the world be filled with legal and dangerous pharmaceuticals. why aren’t they banning pharmaceuticals? because they can make A LOT of money from it and they can simply get away with saying “say no to drugs but say YES to our drugs”
Comment by boo — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
@4 Phil: “people’s taste for mushrooms won’t change with this law, now they’ll be forced to purchase them from shady dealers and they’ll never exactly how safe and how potent they are”
You say people will be forced to purchase mushrooms. So, they don’t have free will to decide NOT to buy mushrooms? You assume that since these mushrooms become illegal, that not one of the people using them will stop using them?
Of course there is a downside that for those who want to continue using them will have a bigger risk doing so. So, why continue? Is it that important to use them? I don’t want to say that addicts would have it easy, what I am saying that even an addict can be helped to stop using if there is genuine will from the addict.
For those addicts that are beyond help, well, too bad. They made their choise.
Comment by JT — Mon, Oct 15th, 2007 @ 6:02 am
boo is correct about the psilocybin and its effect on the liver. And as far as I know, they are ‘only’ outlawing the mushrooms. It is much more intersesting what police and justice will do to enforce the law now growing and reselling has becoming illegal. That’s also what the city of Amsterdam asked to the politicians in The Hague… So perhaps there is still hope.
boo, were you talking about the ones that grow here, when you wrote “species found in Finland”? I then agree about both the finding and identifying. They are so easy to mix with other mushrooms, unless you have a microscope.
Comment by majava — Mon, Oct 15th, 2007 @ 9:14 am
“Of course there is a downside that for those who want to continue using them will have a bigger risk doing so. So, why continue? Is it that important to use them? I don’t want to say that addicts would have it easy, what I am saying that even an addict can be helped to stop using if there is genuine will from the addict.”
We’re talking about hallucinogenic mushrooms. It’s been researched and verified that psilocybin doesn’t make people physically or mentally addicted to psilocybin. please people, do your research first before you assume on what harm a particular drug does to a person’s body. I’m not talking about just mushrooms, but there are times where i’ve read comments from drug related posts on this blog and i have no idea where people get their misinformation from. Is it the Finnish drug educational system (or lack of it)?
This is one of the reasons why I’m pissed off that mushrooms have gotten a bad light with the media. A few mishaps due to misinformation and carelessness from particular individuals can ruin it for others who ingest mushrooms for spiritual, studying and medicinal purposes. I post in a community which tries to help spread CORRECT information about hallucinogenic mushrooms and from the 10 years of being apart of that community, the only deaths which have occurred were due to PHARMACEUTICAL addictions. A lot of the moderators in this community are research scientists, doctors, lawyers, all these professions which you don’t normally associate with people taking magic mushrooms for recreational purposes.
@ Phil: “people’s taste for mushrooms won’t change with this law, now they’ll be forced to purchase them from shady dealers and they’ll never exactly how safe and how potent they areâ€Â
You’re right in a sense, they’ll not know how safe the product will be..especially since growing mushrooms can be 50/50…depending on how clean the environment the mushrooms are growing in. People will never know if there’s moulds which grew in conjunction with the shrooms. But, that’s usually identifiable. In regards to the potency, it’s somewhat easy to tell from fresh or dried - potency varies from different species. lowest being cubensis highest being azurescens.
majava: yes i was talking about the ones that grow here in Finland, there’s an official document (written by guzman -i think and allen) which states there are 14 species of psilocybin mushrooms that grow in this country.
Comment by boo — Mon, Oct 15th, 2007 @ 11:12 am
JT: “You assume that since these mushrooms become illegal, that not one of the people using them will stop using them?”
I would say that the number of people using them will increase when they become illegal in Holland. Once their cultivation and sale becomes decentralized, more people will have access. Also, the profit margin will skyrocket, thus modivating sellers to become more active in recruiting new users.
JT: “I don’t want to say that addicts would have it easy…”
Unlike Alcohol, Mushrooms aren’t addictive. Very few, if any, people use them on a regular basis. As ‘boo’ suggests, please inform yourself before commenting.
Comment by Smarter Drug Policy Now! — Mon, Oct 15th, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
This thread would be a lot more interesting shroomin’
Comment by Kai — Tue, Oct 16th, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
JT (#19), when was the last time you ever heard of a mushroom addict or even an LSD addict? Why bother posting when you don’t know of what you speak?
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Tue, Oct 16th, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
The Netherlands has lately become much more conservative, mainly because of the christian democratic - social democratic coalition in power.
Comment by Patrick — Mon, Oct 29th, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
Do you guys see the problem?… People have opinion (and so make decisions) on issues that they don’t understand. Well, I’d say, why don’t we let to decide the shroom-issue by the people who at least once ate shrooms. So, by people who are free in their minds of ignorant prejudice like ADDICTION TO SHROOMS, or LIVER DAMAGE due to overdose.
This isn’t happening because the majority of the people think very simply that “drugs are bad, hm ok”, and so never manage to ascend to a higher level of intelligence by taking a deep mushroom trip.
Let them stay stupid. God is their judge. And us, who dare to learn the secrets of the universe and powers of human mind - we will namage them and maybe gradually make them wiser.
Comment by Freakazoid — Tue, Oct 30th, 2007 @ 10:13 pm
DIE YOU FINNISH FUCKS
Comment by KRATOS — Tue, Nov 6th, 2007 @ 10:48 pm
maybe they should just make them illegal for non-residents, since those are the ones who are falling off roofs?
Comment by aop — Fri, Nov 9th, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
Great, now mushies can be sold on the black market by criminals, with possible contamination. People will abuse anything, but these fungi deserve respect, especially for those of us who use them for spiritual purposes. Then there are idiots like pekka eskimo, phil, and makael who made3 comments here and obviously have no respect or knowledge of the mushrooms, and who actually seem to think drug war tactics work. they don’t, and never will.
Comment by doom876 — Tue, Aug 19th, 2008 @ 11:22 pm
This is a big step backwards for Netherlands. They used to be a very liberal country that was the envy for many people and now they’re becoming conservative and religious. So depressing….
There are MANY, MANY less shroom-related deaths than alcohol-related deaths, yet the safer one becomes illegal. Seriously, if someone kills a whole family from drunk driving, how come it’s the driver’s fault, and not alcohol. And when someone falls off a roof on shrooms, it’s the drug’s fault. This lack of logic just fuckin pisses me off.
Now they’re allowing gangs to become richer by selling this newly illegal drug to the many users in Holland.
JUST blame the drug, not the irresponsible person.
Comment by Justin — Sun, Nov 2nd, 2008 @ 8:40 pm