How is Susan Kuronen different than any other biographier or autobiographier?
Please answer me one simple question - Today I was at Crazy Days and I went into Stockmann’s bookstore, and there before my eyes were hundreds of biographies for sale, many of which were labeled “unauthorized”. Shouldn’t all these authors be investigated by the police and possibly prosecuted and/or sued?? How exactly are any of these biographies any different than what Susan Kuronen did in her book about Finland’s Prime Minister?
Many of the biographies I saw were labeled “memoirs”, isn’t Susan’s book simply her memoirs? Aren’t all the biographies I saw invading the privacy of their subjects? Aren’t all the autobiographies I saw invading the privacy of everyone who had a friendship or relationship with the author?
After leaving I took this funny picture of a car that had struck a stop light…
You have a weird sense of humour.
Comment by m — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 12:00 am
Is there a connection between the question you posed about Kuronen and the picture of the car crash? Maybe so. At least on a subliminal level.
Comment by toledojohn — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 12:24 am
What did the advert on the side of the car say? It reads only “diksessa” but if it would have said like “kondiksessa” it would have been priceless. This pic i mean.
Comment by Plas — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 2:03 am
Was he going after the Spy cam on the pole? Or are those not up yet?
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 2:59 am
Gee, how will the USA invade, if you all don’t have something we want.
Like : McDonalds
Cheep Rum
Doc’s will to give you their cell numbers
and
my Fav
30 drunkin sailors and a party
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 4:01 am
#
Is there a connection between the question you posed about Kuronen and the picture of the car crash?
None whatsoever. Except that, after I left the book store, I took that photo.
Comment by Phil — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 9:09 am
I’m just glad you finally stopped stalking me yesterday.
Comment by Asa — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 10:18 am
So people’s sex lives should be freely open for public scrutiny, but their income shouldn’t?
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 11:34 am
So people’s sex lives should be freely open for public scrutiny, but their income shouldn’t?
LOL! The rights of the states and the rights of individuals are totally different.
If XYZ Corp. decided one day, “the salaries are all our future employees will be public”, then that’s legally okay IMO, because the employee always has a choice to work elsewhere, but when it comes to the state, we have no choice.
The same thing is true if the state decided to publish a book about a citizen’s sex life, it’s not within their rights.
Comment by Phil — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 1:01 pm
Can anyone answer my original question? What’s the difference between a biography and Kuronen’s biography?
Comment by Phil — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
Gee Phil, at the end of the day, nothing, they both make some money.
Why else do them?
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Phil,
We just collectively take the fifth! Even in the US silence is acceptable in such situations
.I’ll give you my opinion, but I’m sure it’s not a majority view.
This contradiction reflects our way of seeing people as â€Âone of us†and â€Âone of themâ€Â. If the person is â€Âone of us†we would like to see him treated as we would like to be treated in a similar situation. I.e. we identify with the target. If the person is â€Âone of them†we would like to see him treated the way that would benefit the treater. I.e. We identify with the public’s interest to know.
Vanhanen has built this image of himself as a â€Âregular Finn†who drinks diet coke, tries to get women, and attends his work diligently. We kind of understand where he is coming from. On the emotional level we don’t really care about the rational and legalistic arguments, even though we kind of know that they apply.
IMO this legal case is good for Finland. I hope Vanhanen loses it.
Comment by Mara — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
Mara, interesting!
Comment by Phil — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
[Shouldn’t all these authors be investigated by the police and possibly prosecuted and/or sued??]
What’s wrong with investigating? Kuronen hasn’t been found guilty of anything yet, so no need to get upset.
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
If XYZ Corp. decided one day, “the salaries are all our future employees will be publicâ€Â, then that’s legally okay IMO, because the employee always has a choice to work elsewhere, but when it comes to the state, we have no choice.
But you do have a choice, don’t you? (BTW I’m not saying “love it or leave it” or anything like that.) How are countries different than companies? You come here and agree to obey the law. For people who are born here, their parents make the decision.
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
But you do have a choice, don’t you? (BTW I’m not saying “love it or leave it†or anything like that.) How are countries different than companies? You come here and agree to obey the law. For people who are born here, their parents make the decision.
That’s like saying to the Americans, “If you don’t like not having free healthcare, just move out the country asshole!!”
Comment by Phil — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
What’s wrong with investigating? Kuronen hasn’t been found guilty of anything yet, so no need to get upset.
I believe the initial investigation is over and it’s going to trial. He’s basically bullying her and trying to shake her and her publisher down for some money.
It sends a strong message out to any future biographers/autobiographers in Finland.
Comment by Phil — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
What did the advert on the side of the car say?
It said “Kaikki kondiksessa”. There where a lot of laughing bystanders.
Comment by unknown — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
That’s like saying to the Americans, “If you don’t like not having free healthcare, just move out the country asshole!!â€Â
Exactly. It’s a free world. Well, parts of it are somewhat free.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
Maybe Kuronen has made a secret deal with Vanhanen and they are doing this to sell more books. That is the only way this makes any sense.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 8:15 pm
#18 I remember a somewhat more ghastly accident aftermath at Stockmann, when a tram took a corner too fast after the overheated driver fainted and crashed into the wall of the building, killing a motorcyclist who happened to be there.
The tram left a considerable dent in the brick wall, and next to it they still had an advertisement in the Stockmann window for a summer sale, which read “LOPPURYSÄYS”.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
didnt she use emails and SMS messages he sent to her in the book? doesnt that make it a different situation somehow legally ?
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
Look, lets fix this myth. The USA has free healthcare. PERIOD.
We have it. Now get over it. If you need to see a doc, just go in, they have to see you.
Now get over it. The rest of us have a market based system, where we pay for services. If we don’t like the services, we walk.
Can you walk? Will your Doc give out his cell number? Do you get a second, third, even a 4th openion. Do you? not the system, get to choose your path to wellness?
Well, if its is a no answer, you are in a run down government system.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
Lets fix another myth. Please turn off the BBC first.
From the WASHINGTON POST: The evidence of a drop in violence in Iraq is becoming hard to dispute.
Gee, news to you all I bet.
and
Imagine the hue and cry from every mainstream media wire service if Israel were responsible for this: PA forces shoot dead two Palestinians, including 5-year-old boy.
Gee, news to you I bet
So, now, just who are the evil ones out there? Darn, I am going to miss being so evil in this world.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Oct 14th, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
That’s like saying to the Americans, “If you don’t like not having free healthcare, just move out the country asshole!!â€Â
But I specifically said I didn’t mean that. Anyone’s free to try to change the laws, but this is how things work right now.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Oct 15th, 2007 @ 12:32 am
Phil: “I believe the initial investigation is over and it’s going to trial. He’s basically bullying her and trying to shake her and her publisher down for some money.
It sends a strong message out to any future biographers/autobiographers in Finland.”
Yes, usually after the investigation the case goes to trial. Nothing wrong with that. Investigators could have decided not to go to trial, but it seems also they want to see what court has to say about this. I think it is a good thing. After this case we will have more information of what the law has to say about cases like this.
As anonymonous said, Kuronen has not been found guilty of anything yet. Let’s wait for the outcome. The real time for discussion is after the trial. Then we can decide whether we like the current law about this or not. And if we feel strongly about it, we may want to act towards changing the law.
The fact that Kuronen is sued does not send the message. Whether she will be found guilty or not is the message.
Also, Vanhanen did not sue Kuronen, but only the publisher. Also, he is not demanding any money from Kuronen. Do your homework.
Comment by JT — Mon, Oct 15th, 2007 @ 6:29 am
There’s no such thing as Stockmann’s bookstore. It’s called the “Akateeminen Kirjakauppa” (Academic Bookstore) and it is a subdivision of the Stockmann group. FYI.
As for the actual question: don’t know, couldn’t care less.
Comment by Anzi — Mon, Oct 15th, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
#24: “The evidence of a drop in violence in Iraq is becoming hard to dispute.Gee, news to you all I bet.”
Ebbs and flows. So what?
“Imagine the hue and cry from every mainstream media wire service if Israel were responsible for this: PA forces shoot dead two Palestinians, including 5-year-old boy.”
The Middle East is a violent place, and nobody has clean hands. How shocked are you about the Armenian Christian women gunned down by the Blackwater terrorists?
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Oct 15th, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
Ebbs and flows. So what?
did you even see the chart? A decline even the media can’t ignore.
“Armenian Christian women gunned down by the Blackwater terrorists?”
who were under fire? Yea, get real buddy.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Tue, Oct 16th, 2007 @ 4:21 am
What a useful contribution, Anzi.
Yeah, Kimmo. You know that FOX doesn’t report on the multi-billion dollar killer corporations like Blackwater. How would winturd know about this? If he doesn’t know about it, it didn’t happen.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Tue, Oct 16th, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
Winter:
Can you walk? Will your Doc give out his cell number?
No need for that. We have a public registry of cell phones complete with street addresses and income information.
Do you get a second, third, even a 4th openion. Do you? not the system, get to choose your path to wellness?
Looks like soon you won’t even get a first opinion in Finland as the nurses are going on strike. Iltalehti just reported that cancer patients will be left untreated (*). Soon we’ll have yet another statistic to boast about: no cancer patients in the wellfare state.
* http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/200710166723134_uu.shtml
Comment by mh — Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 12:43 am
Yes, but will the Doc answer his phone if you call. Mine did, after he called on some test results, and wanted me to call him back.
Gee, what a system. We get results for the money we spend. Gee
And yes, Fox did an interview with the Blackwater President. Even asked the hard queestions. I like his answer, on why he is employed. No losses of diplomates, at all. Even a nice save of the Polish Ambasador as he was under fire, and needed a rescue.
Good job Blackwater. Kinda sucks to be a Finnish Human Shield, doing absolutly nothing to help the world? Gee, what a difference.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 1:33 am
Phil:
It actually will be interesting to see what the Finnish Court system does with this issue. For Americans, the notion that Susan Kuronen can be in some ways silenced regarding her relationship with Vanhannen flies in the face of every civics lesson on the First Amendment they have ever had. We tend to forget that our (relatively) unfettered freedom of speech hasn’t been exported to Western Europe lock, stock and barrell.
For example, Kitty Kelly’s book “The Royals” was banned in England because of her speculation,(and she clearly labled it speculation), that the Queen Mother was an illigetimate child. English common law has some very scary libel laws especially as they relate to the Crown.
This is precisely why the First Amendment to the US Constitution was written: the founding fathers wanted an unfettered right to criticize the Crown. (All the more ironic that the Administration labled anyone who cirticized the Iraq war in 2003 “traitors”,since it is about the most patriotic and American value we have to be able to freely criticsize our governemnt)
Comment by nipsu — Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:20 am
Another myth. We called critics of the war “traitors”. First of all, we like the criticism, however, when you attack a neutral General, with “betrayus”, when he will not spit back your lose the war, message, I call that traitorous.
I also find news organizations working 100% of their time to undermine the war, a bunch of traitors. So yes, your intent is judged, not your opinion.
Its really that simple.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 4:01 am
Another leftie bites the dust on this one:
“Frank Rich once complained that disagreement with the Bush administration had become tantamount to treason. Rich must have been recently released from Bush’s gulags because now he’s back to complaining that the Iraq War’s remaining supporters are nazis.
Rich apparently doesn’t appreciate the irony that his hyperbolic comparisons of America in 2007 to totalitarian regimes are undermined by the very fact that he is still free to write his drivel on the nation’s second most widely read editorial page.
Frank Rich’s other irony is that, in spite of the President’s “gestapo tactics†the only wall between him and his readers over the last six years was built not by Bush, but by his employer: The New York Times.”
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 4:07 am
Anyone else think it’s funny how winter finds it extraordinary that patients can phone doctors about results and vice versa?
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 10:36 am
*This entry could be discussed
what is the difference between suomi and usa in terms of obesity index?
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/fit.nation/obesity.map/
Comment by Em — Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
yea, his personal cell, at home at night. yes it is becomming a reality as more docs find themselves in a competative position.
hint; i fired my first cancer doc.
or did he fire me ? humm
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
I did sign up for a Cancer trial. That Doc call when he needs new blood. So far he is in year 1 of a 10 year blood study, so I have to wait 10 years to see what he got.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
#37: Don’t worry, we’re getting there too. According to
http://www.terveydenhoitouutiset.fi/thu1001/3.htm Finland is one of Europe’s leading nations in terms of obesity. Half of Finnish adults are overweight and one fifth of them are overweight by 20% or more.
As obesity is related to wealth, it’s interesting to see Finland’s high-tax low-income economy perform so ‘well’ in this regard. We’ll never surpass the Americans in terms of disposable income, but we might do it in terms of obesity.
Comment by mh — Wed, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
#35 Whaddaya know? A Winter contribution with proper syntax, correct spelling, and even coherent (although extremely slanted) thoughts! How can this be Winter’s stuff? I just had to google a sentence to see if anyone else had thought these up. Guess what! They had.
http://www.bobkrumm.com/blog/?p=1618
And by the way: putting quotation marks around the copy-paste job is not enough in the way of a proper attribution for someone else’s copy. If you quote someone, it’s not enough to concede on the sly THAT you are quoting - you shoud at least mention WHOM you are quoting.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Thu, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 12:44 am
It would be nice to box (HTML) a quote as well. Then the quotation markes are not needed.
Phil, can you allow it?
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Thu, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 3:42 am
Some more medical Facts:
French hospitals don’t have air conditioning, saves money.
British Hospitals have very dangerous health practices. Yes, they may not use gloves when handeling, as in the case of my Grandma. Saves money.
American’s high costs, however wasteful they seem, nonetheless drive much of the world’s medical innovation.
If we take the international health results/expenditures data at face value (and we shouldn’t), they imply that greater access to medical care does not itself improve health outcomes.
Current Democratic health care plans on the table in the USA, one way or another, admit they will spend more money on health care. Not save any money.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Thu, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:50 am
#43 First of all, Britain and France are not Finland.
Apparently the lack of air conditioning in French hospitals is stems from legislation based on a belief that air conditioning systems carry disease. In the case of Legionnaire’s disease they may have a point. It may be an exaggerated belief, but so is the American notion that foreskin amputation is good for you.
As for British doctors not using rubber gloves while “handleling” (at least we know that this was a Winter original) patients, I’m pretty sure that even there, actual surgery is performed with adequate handware.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Thu, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 10:58 am
Kimmo W “but so is the American notion that foreskin amputation is good for you.”
Ask your girlfriend or is she in to cheese
Comment by Anonymous — Thu, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
#45 “Don’t you ever wash that thing?” - Frank Zappa
Comment by KervÃ¥ — Thu, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
I’m surprised that, given the turn to healthcare that this has taken, that nobody has mentioned the looming nurses walkout in Finland. Regardless of effciency, people are going to die because of this…all because nobody wants to pay them a competitive wage in order to save money. I’m sure glad I’m not pregnant and in Finland or even with a young baby right now. The very young and the elderly are always the ones who suffer most in these sorts of things. I wonder how many babies will have to die before people decide nurses are worth paying a bit better.
Comment by hfb — Thu, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
#45: In Finland young boys are taught how to properly wash their penises. Is touching your genitals a taboo where you live? Do you wash your teeth before kissing?
#44: Recent studies suggest that circumcision greatly reduces the risk of contracting HIV. Maybe it’s not that bad after all?
#47: I mentioned the walkout. Iltalehti reported that they’re going to left cancer patients untreated for the duration of the walkout. The babies are not the only ones that are going to suffer…
Comment by mh — Thu, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
hfb:
“I’m surprised that, given the turn to healthcare that this has taken, that nobody has mentioned the looming nurses walkout in Finland.”
I’m surprised too, I’d been expecting a post on it. Then again, even Phil has to work for a living and our resident slacker Kristian has apparently gone back to building Die Bundesrepublik.
“Regardless of effciency, people are going to die because of this…all because nobody wants to pay them a competitive wage in order to save money.”
You left out the fact that practical nurses were offered a 12% (or was it 13%) raise and accepted it. Tehy members refused it. Now, what constitutes a competitive wage is open for debate. On the latitudes of Utsjoki-Kevo the 2,5k nurses are getting is quite good, IMHO. For a nurse in Helsinki working the night shift at the Malmi hospital Saturday morning at 3:30 AM it may not seem like much. There should be more regional variation in public sector wages.
Personally, I think that the higher the raise, the better it is for the system. Higher wages create a pressure to cut the bureaucracy and to make the system more effective. Even privatisation of healthcare wouldn’t be such a catastrophe. I believe we could avoid many of the excesses and problems in the US system. We are living in interesting times.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 11:42 pm
Anon:
“Ask your girlfriend or is she in to cheese”
High-tech Finland boasts of many highly advanced innovations, such as showers, baths and even saunas. These are even exported to other countries.
There was a poll about this right here. If I recall correctly, the majority of women polled preferred the natural thing.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 12:00 am
Freeridin’ Franklin - They should get not only regional scales of pay, but shift differentials, too. Everybody wants to work days with holidays off so you have to offer incentives for the shitty shifts that nobody wants, such as the midnight shift at Malmi. My sister who has a Masters in nursing and in business runs a group of nurses at a major trauma center and even with the shift incentives, staffing is difficult at best. With the stories she tells me I wouldn’t want her job or spend any time in a hospital anywhere on earth these days.
These are interesting times, indeed. I hope the nurses don’t do a mass resignation as I have little doubt people will die because of it. I’d also have a hard time re-hiring any of them as how can you trust lives to someone who can walk out on the job knowing people will die? With the current shortage of nurses, how can you afford not to rehire them?
Comment by hfb — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 2:54 am
hfb, have you seen “sicko?”
If not, you are missing something.
As GWB and Cheney would say, “big time.”
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 4:16 am
If these people who have devoted their lives to health care, these nurses, go on strike it must be for some good reason.
In actuality, it is impossible to live in Helsinki with a 2000 euro paycheck. OK, maybe not impossible, perhaps “passable” but it is not right that these workers who care for the sick (rich and poor) are not left with deciding whether or not to buy a bus ticket for work travels or for their children’s rubber boots and food.
I am in support of them, the government is apparently just fucking around with semantics.
But they have and receive all the health care that they need despite any strike, eh?
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 4:37 am
Gee in Finland the nurses go on strike. They work for a kinder friendly, oversea-er, government.
In the USA they change jobs, get a signing bonus, and a pay raise.
My Cancer nurse, just left for a huge pay increase. She was the best blood drawer, I ever had.
Can they do that in Finland? Jump ship? Or is the Gov the only game in town?
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 5:33 am
Dave - No, I don’t get to the movies much these days with a baby and I can’t say that I would waste an occasional evening out on Michael Moore’s mockumentary. I don’t need to see it anyway as I’m all too familiar with the current state of US healthcare.
And regardless of how justifiable the pay rise is, people will die. Healthcare is an industry/profession where you take an oath to save lives, not leave patients in their beds at the mercy of a chaotic mishmash of whomever happens to be around to care for them. I can understand wanting a living wage, but walking out on the job is not an ethical way to pursue that.
Comment by hfb — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 5:50 am
#48 “Recent studies suggest that circumcision greatly reduces the risk of contracting HIV. Maybe it’s not that bad after all?”
I’ve read about that too, yet I wonder if regular washing - especially before and after sex - might not have the same effect. I also wonder if pushing this notion might not have the opposite effect by giving some circumcised men a false sense of security. “Who needs safe sex? I’m circumcised.”
Comment by Kimmo W. — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 8:29 am
#56-”I wonder if regular washing - especially before and after sex - might not have the same effect.”
Are you serious? You have an opinion like that in educated Finland? Weren’t we speaking about sex education being improved on another thread a short while back? Kimmo, you need it. No wonder STD’s are at such high numbers in Finland. Truely scarey.
As for the nurses, I pity them for the situation they find themselves in but that’s what you get when you leave the unions in the negotiations. Ideas such as regional flexibility are excellent but unacceptable to the unionists. As long as the nurses leave their negotioations in the hands of old fashioned leftist unionists, their salaries will reflect the stone age time the unionists still live in.
Their was an excellent article on nursing salaries in Sweden as against Finland and how the contracts are made allowing for flex a few weeks back in HS intl online. Strangely enough the nurses there seem to have a far better deal.
Might be time to sack the lot of the striking nurses, remove them from the unions stranglehold and then rehire them based on individual and flexible work contracts that benefit both parties.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 9:51 am
Finland For Thought is a bit stuck right now and Phil is on holiday. Sorry that we haven’t been blogging.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 9:52 am
Oops,#57 was me although you could probaly tell from my love of the trade union movement.
Comment by Punter — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 9:52 am
#57 You misunderstood me completely! My point is that if circumcision correlates with a slightly lower HIV transmission rate, my suspicion is that proper hygiene might have a similar effect.
I never suggested that washing would be a substitute for safe sex, but neither is circumcision, and I was wondering if the propagation of the notion of circumcision as an anti-AIDS measure might make some men feel that the mangling of their genitalia means that they don’t need to worry about condoms.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 10:10 am
Condom sales went down sharply in Oz after the rugby world cup quarter-final, when people down under learnt the lesson that one Johnny can stuff fifteen Australians.
Carry on.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 2:35 pm
I wonder who was the first guy that thought cutting up your penis was a good idea. I mean, how did that thing get started? If it weren’t for religion, people would never do it.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
Mockumentary or not, hfb, the movie says what is clearly obvious; strikes like these are usually the vehicle of salary negotiation in Europe.
That’s how things work here: unions, companies, discussions, strike/threat to strike, resolution, work.
In the US they just sack whomever they please, and incidentally, people die in US hospitals because of piss poor management, too. Every day.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
#62:
Old Testament:
“God said to Abraham, “As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.”
Comment by Kimmo W. — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
Dave - Given your posting pattern, I’m going to guess that you’re in the US and an American judging by your English…still on the honeymoon of only ever visiting Finland and never really living there?
Michael Moore, even for this liberal is too much of an asshole with an agenda who presents only the facts that support that agenda in his films. This is not to say that he doesn’t have a point, only that he’s a fuckhead windbag who does little good in pursuing solutions to significant problems…such as healthcare.
And, generally, no, people don’t just sack whomever they please as, if they could, my sister’s job would be a hell of a lot easier. If you don’t like your pay or your working conditions, you can just go find another job, too. Why wait for the herd.
But this isn’t about the US system…it’s about Finnish hospitals where Finnish people are going to die over possibly 100 euros more in every paycheck. Maybe you dont’ know anyone sick or pregnant or with a sick child, but those who do are likely very worried.
And because you seem to be so knowledgeable about the US healthcare system….you would, of course, know about the averted nursing strike last year at Boston’s B&W hospital where I had my baby. The ward was overflowing with people getting C-sections before they went on strike. The strike didn’t happen, thankfully, and most of the nurses I asked didn’t want to strike. But you, of course, know all about that. ( http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/11/13/nurses_to_vote_whether_to_strike/ )
Comment by hfb — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
Hfb forgot to mention the costs, 15 percent of GDP goes to healthcare instead of the usual 7-10 percent like in the EU. US healthcare does not even give you a full coverage and 20 percent of Americans (mainly those earning 10 000 - 25 000 dollars) just cannot afford a health insurance. The usual story is that somebody got some form of relatively rare but curable disease and in the end, he or she received a 100 000 dollar hospital bill.
And yes, we have problems with healthcare in Finland too but at least people do not postpone their regular checks because they cannot afford it.
Comment by tim73 — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
Hfb forgot to mention the costs, 15 percent of GDP goes to healthcare instead of the usual 7-10 percent like in the EU.
Ah, that’s probably why we use fourth year medical students as doctors in Finland. Did you know they put a fourth year student to work as the only doctor on duty in some remote health center and he got a baby killed? I don’t blame the student, though. Who would be an expert in his field after only four years? Our socialist health care system not only destroyed the parents’ lives but also ruined the poor student’s life for good.
And what about the emergency call center reform? It’s awfully hard to get through to them nowadays, not to mention some of the technical problems they’ve been experiencing lately. HS reported a couple of weeks ago how large parts of southeastern Finland were without emergency call services for a whole night because of a technical glitch. They didn’t have a backup system. Imagine dialing 911 in the US and getting no answer.
The emergency personnel in Finland aren’t very easy to deal with even if you get through. I once called an ambulance for some guy who was having some kind of seizure on the street. As it was 4am the operator suggested that the he’s only drunk and refused to send an ambulance. So she sent a couple of police officers instead. It took the officers about half an hour to show up. When they finally did, they called the lady back and reported that the guy really is having a seizure or something. Then she finally sent an ambulance. I estimated it took a total 45 minutes for the ambulance to arrive. I had plenty of time to question the lady why she refused. Guess what she answered? It costs them some serious money every time they send an ambulance out. On the other hand, the police officers are “free” as they’re already on the field.
The usual story is that somebody got some form of relatively rare but curable disease and in the end, he or she received a 100 000 dollar hospital bill.
Yeah and in Finland he would just die.
And yes, we have problems with healthcare in Finland too but at least people do not postpone their regular checks because they cannot afford it.
What are you smoking? The concept of a regular check doesn’t even exist as such in Finland. It’s perfectly normal to go see a doctor only when you’re really sick. Some employers have some kind of regular checks but the same can be said about employers in the US.
Comment by mh — Fri, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
The nurses are resigning because the do not have the right to strike effectively when employed. And because they do have lousy wages. And because many of the specialized care activities are the government monopoly. If the nurses had a competing labor market, they would have already traded employers. If they had the right to stike effectively, they would have already been able to effectively threaten with a stike and would have gotten incremental pay rises. With so little options left to the employees, the labor market corrections are bound to be few but drastic ones.
Like Hirschman wrote, if a person does not have Voice, he will use Exit, and that is the end of Loyalty.
This is a shining opportunity for a long due organizational change. Nobody needs to be a martyr. The public sector just has to start treating its employees as its “most valuable resource”.
Comment by Mara — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 2:24 am
Another myth busted
“In the US they just sack whomever they please”
Gee, do you all have some more? I do know the BBC is on.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 2:45 am
Anothe myth busted
“Michael Moore, even for this liberal is too much of an asshole with an agenda who presents only the facts ”
Gee, did just one of his facts last one day?
No
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 2:48 am
Whre is Phil
I could die before he comes back……….. Naw, still in full battle gear, attacking.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 2:59 am
Finlandforthought is a bit broken now. It doesn’t let any of the guest bloggers log in to post. Phil is on holiday right now until next week. I talked to him yesterday and is trying to look into the problem.
sorry,
Sirkuspelle
Comment by sirkuspelle — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Hfb, you are wrong on so many assumptions about me I hardly know where to begin.
I was born in the states in 1969, regularly visiting summers until I was a teen. Then in 1990 I moved over here accidentally while on Eurailpass vacation, “finding my roots.” I have lived here on and off (two stints in states for about 3 years altogether) since then. I have since become a citizen of this country that you claim I only vaguely remember in a haze of reminiscence.
I know full well that there are problems with the health system here, but the fact of the matter is that you get help if you need it. Moore’s documentary, which you (and your pal winter) have not even seen just underscores the utter lack of compassion and “Hippocratic oath” that physicians are charged with upon completion of their study.
Since you mentioned the Brigham and Women’s nursing strike threat, I of course was in Finland at the time and it just did not occur to me to follow that news (despite the fact that I spend a lot of time skimming news from back home - Boston and mid coast Maine areas).
While the health care system here is written in law, the government tries to save money through poor payment of its employees. Even though they may be losing money, and the management might not be perfect, they do provide services. I have yet to hear of a patient who is in serious need of medical attention being turned away to the streets like they clearly do in the States (Skid Row, in Moore’s film, actually).
In the US the insurance companies, HMOs and hospitals are profit driven and run by CEOs and stockholders.
I don’t think either system is perfect, but for you to sit there with your secure health care that your high household salary (one of the luckier families there) provides you.
What about your neighbor or the families in Dorchester or Roxbury, do you think they get all the pre- and post-natal care that you and your dear baby received?
In Finland, we all get it. This strike / resignation threat is just a glitch in the ongoing system. To say that “people will die” because of this is just poppycock coming from a fully insured person from the US. I am sure there are millions upon millions of Americans who would take the Finnish health care system (with its imperfections) over the bloated, corrupt and evil system that is in existence in the US today.
And thanks for the compliment on my writing.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 11:42 am
The above should have read:
“I don’t think either system is perfect, but for you to sit there with your secure health care that your high household salary (one of the luckier families there) provides you ”’is unfair.”
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 11:47 am
The above should REALLY have read:
“I don’t think either system is perfect, but for you to sit there with your secure health care that your high household salary (one of the luckier families there) provides you â€Â’it is unfair of your to compare a strike here that is public and one there that is private.â€Â
(I apparently need more than 2 cups of coffee this morning)…
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 11:55 am
#72 Dave you say (perhaps rightly so) “that there are millions upon millions of Americans that would take the Finnish health care system”
Now I take it you mean the millions that go without insurance however surely the MAJORITY of Americans that DO HAVE insurance might disagree with your opinion. I think rather than continually focus on this group of uninsured, we might care to focus on those doing just fine with the system. Now I know many insured are also unhappy with how it works however it always seems to go without considering the insured and satisfied that the European model is this all superior system because of the people outside of the system Stateside.
Balance the arguement first and then make your generalizations.
Comment by Punter — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
#66- Tim73, those poor Americans earning between USD 10-25000 are most likely employees of WalMart meaning not only are they working but as YOU pointed out, are also eligible for “assistance payments” ie WELFARE in The States. Nowremeber that before you go off ranting about the evil States and lake of compassion for the poor.
Comment by Punter — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 1:35 pm
Punter, balance my ass. My mother who lives in the relatively “socialized” state of Maine suffers from chronic migraine headaches and gets them nearly every day. She takes a pill that makes them go away after a couple of hours rest.
Unfortunately, the pills cost more than $20US EACH. She is insured but the plan does not cover these pills as they are not considered “necessary.” So do the math, Balance Boy, could your sorry ass even with your “wouldn’t get out of bed for less than $2000″ be able to afford a 20 dollar pill every fucking night?
I don’t know how they manage, really.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
And re: 76, Punter… Your methods of deduction truly impress me!
How can the entire population of the US working poor be employed by Walmart?
I would like to see you work and live under those conditions, even with the “generous” welfare. Have you ever seen a woman at the cash register ripping out her food stamps and then having the cashier take items away from her tally so that she would have enough? I have. It is not pretty.
The welfare system in the US is mostly a degrading, demeaning process that only people with serious problems would even consider “taking advantage of.”
Have you even been to the US besides on some vacation? The welfare office is not KELA.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
On a more serious note, I miss Dunkie’s (Dunkin’ Donuts) right now.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
David - So I was at least half right - you are American.
Again, maybe you missed the part where I come from a medical family, my mother was an MD, too. I dislike Moore intensely because he is even more guilty of skewing reality than Ann Coulter but people who want to hear his message eat it up like the gods truth. The hospital, which is not a state or city hospital, where my sister works currently runs at a 40% loss load which means that 40% of their patients either have no insurance or have no ability to pay. Sure, hospitals and such are profit driven as people have to get paid honey, but they also take losses for writeoffs, the cost of which is then passed on the paying customers. Everybody pays, it’s merely the semantics of who pays and how much that differs.
The Finnish system is, in many ways, very much like the US since there is the public and the private system where anyone who can afford it generally uses the private system given its superior facilities and short wait times for appointments.
And saying that people will die from a lack of nursing staff has nothing to do with my being covered by insurance or not. People don’t understand how esssential nurses are and that 95% of your care in a hospital is administered by a nurse, not a doctor with a stethescope in spite of all the TV shows suggesting otherwise. People will die from getting the wrong meds, not getting their meds, having to travel to Sweden for care, etc. One can hope that the gov sees the light, but they’re the only game in town. Smart nurses are likely looking at options in Sweden and the UK which will make an already bad situation wrt staffing even worse.
As for your mom’s meds….she’d still have to pay for them in Finland, but likely a bit cheaper if they were available.
Also, what makes you think being on the dole in Finland is any less degrading? Ever been in a Helsinki grocery on the last few days before the monthly cheque arrives? That isn’t any prettier. Then again, both look rich compared to folks living in a Calcutta gutter.
I can’t believe you miss Dunkin’
Comment by hfb — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
I really only miss Dunkin’s mega iced coffees. For some reason, they do it right for me.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
#68: I clearly recall winnie calling for the right of bosses to be bosses and sack whomever they please. I take it that this is not the case in the Land of Freedom, then.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sat, Oct 20th, 2007 @ 5:27 pm
bosses are the bosses. I worked at GE at one time. He wrote the book. Sack the bottom 5%, reward the top 20%. Every year.
I think that is how Microsoft also works.
But you sack them for cause, or in some cases, the first year has a get out the door clause, so you just let them go.
In any case, getting rid of the bottom 5% really keeps the slackers out.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Oct 21st, 2007 @ 5:09 am
winturd, you make less and less sense every day.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Sun, Oct 21st, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
I am konfoozed, winnie. Do they sack anyone they please or don’t they?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Oct 21st, 2007 @ 5:58 pm
By the way winnie, did you wright a lot of technical documentation during your time at GE?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Oct 21st, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
I noticed an interesting item that touches upon the original theme of this thread.
We don’t know yet what the outcome of Prime Minister Vanhanen’s court case will be, but it seems that in Germany has gone one step further: the country’s Supreme Court recently upheld the ban on a work of fiction for similar reasons.
A critically acclaimed novel by author Maxim Biller was banned by a court in 2003 after a complaint by the author’s ex girlfriend and her mother, who said that two characters in the book were obviously based on them. The Supreme Court last week upheld the ban.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sun, Oct 21st, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
Kimiiii!
Comment by Random — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
Perhaps the Maxim Biller novel would not have been a problem if either it had been written as a biography, or then with the disclaimer “any resemblance to persons living or dead…” taken out.
Someone will probably put that in the Internet for people to read for free since they can’t sell it any longer.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
Tech Documentation? me, with my spelling? No I had Technical Writers who could spell. Come to think of it, they could walk, and talk, and not run into anything.
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
“Sack anyone they please”? Gee, thats kinda stupid. If you do that, then your top 20% walk. So if you want to retrain, lose money, I guess you can sack whoever you please.
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
Why would they walk, it’s every man for himself.
Comment by Pave — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 6:15 pm
“Sack anyone they please� Gee, thats kinda stupid.
So the proper course of action is:
1. Select whomever you please
2. Determine that she is in the bottom 5%
3. Sack ‘em
To determine the bottom 5%, you can use a spreadsheet.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
#93 was mine.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 7:25 pm
Gee, you have a boss acting like an idiot, you just pick up the phone, and can get a pay raise to leave. So why would you stay?
I mean, come on, why would one work in a place with such an atmosphere?
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 7:27 pm
change #3 to “Sack’em for cause”
The bottom 5% will provide you with plenty of “cause”…gee is it really that hard to look around and see who is not pulling their weight? Every group I have ever worked in, had one, the boss had trouble finding funding streams, to pay the guy’s salery.
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
Gee, you have a boss acting like an idiot
It’s a requirement for the job.
I mean, come on, why would one work in a place with such an atmosphere?
I don’t know. Cuz its called the Free Market?
change #3 to “Sack’em for causeâ€Â
A good cause is always appreciation in the stock price, a sure market reaction to layoffs. Particularly good when you’re just about to exercise your stock options…
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
Again, a good cause is not for the stock market. Just how many companies are still around, and doing well, that pulled that little trick?
I look for well managed companies to invest in, not ones that pick a political wind.
Gee, I hope your investments are doing ok?
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Tue, Oct 23rd, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
250 years ago they predicted mass starvation. With population doubling each generation, while agricultural production growing 2 percent a year. They sailed the globe, saying mass starvation is coming. But today, we are the fattest 300 million people on Earth.
Karl Marx said capitalism was bad, and the coming revolution was good, though they still have hopes at the BBC.
The world did not end in Y2K. But I freeked out.
Then came global warming – where the polar ice caps melt, oceans rise 23 feet, cities sink and Al Gore gets to jet around – saying we are in imminent and mortal danger.
Put me down as a disbeliever in all these guys.
Gee 23 feet? My smell test is saturated.
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Tue, Oct 23rd, 2007 @ 10:13 pm
Try coming up with an original comment once in a while, Wintoid. You can always spot your borrowings. The spelling sort of works.
This latest one is right out of the mouth of Pat “Loose” Buchanan.
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pol/457583287.html
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/PatrickJBuchanan/2007/10/23/apocalypse_now&Comments=true
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=370#more-370
Here’s (part of) what he wrote. HE wrote, mind, not YOU. Let’s have PAT on here, alright? You can go fuck yourself for all I care. I haven’t read a sensible syllable from you in months.
“The scaremongers are not always wrong. The Trojans should have listened to Cassandra. But history shows that the scaremongers are usually wrong.
Parson Malthus predicted mass starvation 250 years ago, as the population was growing geometrically, doubling each generation, while agricultural production was going arithmetically, by 2 percent or so a year. But today, with perhaps 1 percent of our population in full-time food production, we are the best-fed and fattest 300 million people on Earth.
Karl Marx was proven dead wrong about the immiseration of the masses under capitalism and the coming revolution in the industrial West, though they still have hopes at Harvard.
The world did not end in Y2K, when we crossed the millennium, as some had prophesied.
Is then global warming – a steady rise in the temperature of the Earth to where the polar ice caps melt, oceans rise 23 feet, cities sink into the sea and horrendous hurricanes devastate the land – an imminent and mortal danger?
Put me down as a disbeliever.”
The only smell I get is one of rank and vile plagiarism.
Comment by Copycat Killer — Wed, Oct 24th, 2007 @ 3:30 am
Or… maybe he IS Buchanan? o_O
Comment by aet75 — Wed, Oct 24th, 2007 @ 6:07 am
Argh, when will this blog get fixed.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Wed, Oct 24th, 2007 @ 9:19 am
Don’t give him a boner, aet75…
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Wed, Oct 24th, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
Set the bait, put out the line, and…
drum roll… reel in the flounder
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Wed, Oct 24th, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
“Don’t give him a boner, aet75…”
Why not? He might end up looking for drunken sailors who might hijack him on their ship for long tour around the globe. Anyways, is this a long vacation Phil is taking, does anyone know?
Comment by aet75 — Wed, Oct 24th, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
still looking for some dunkin sailors, why do you think my spelling has improved? Less rum maby?
Comment by winter, "Yea, Proton Power, now in remission" — Wed, Oct 24th, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
OK, here I shall try to imitate “winter” as good as I possibly can:
Gee, bla bla bla, bla bla bla, bla bla bla bla bla, bla, gee.
Bla bla bla, bla bla bla, gee, bla bla bla, bla bla gee.
Bla bla bla bla bla, gee, bla bla, gee bla bla bla, bla.
Bla bla gee, bla bla bla, bla bla bla bla, bla bla. Gee.
Bla bla bla bla, bla, gee, bla bla gee, bla bla bla bla, bla.
Gee.
Comment by take it easy — Thu, Oct 25th, 2007 @ 3:31 am
Take it easy, “take it easy”. There’s only room for one Winter here.
Comment by aet75 — Thu, Oct 25th, 2007 @ 4:52 am
Phil should be back at the end of this week or next week. It was supposed to be a 2 week holiday.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Thu, Oct 25th, 2007 @ 7:32 am
Dave the Revelator, do you like Depeche Mode? I was looking at CDs yesterday, and noticed there was a song on one DP CD “John the Revelator”.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Thu, Oct 25th, 2007 @ 7:34 am
Sure I like them, but the song is much older than that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Revelator_%28song%29
It’s a traditional gospel “call and response” song from waaaaayyyy back.
My current favorite version of the song is by Son House. If you like blues, you owe it to yourself to look him up.
The Blues Brothers, Beck, John Mellencamp, Gov’t Mule, The Dirty Dozen Brass Band, R.E.M. and The White Stripes have also covered the song.
Comment by Dave the Revelator — Thu, Oct 25th, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
#111
Speaking of blues and john the revelator:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t9eoXK2twA
Comment by http://killercoke.org/ — Thu, Oct 25th, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
where is actually phil???
Comment by ddd — Sat, Oct 27th, 2007 @ 11:53 am
Yeah, no new messages in about two weeks. Didn’t even leave an away-message. Did Supo finally get him for his anti-Finnish views?
Comment by iJusten — Sat, Oct 27th, 2007 @ 10:28 pm
Tortuga Spiced Rum
try it… I just was give a bottle, and can’t put it down.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Oct 28th, 2007 @ 2:53 am
Tortuga Spiced Rum
try it… I just was given a bottle, and can’t put it down.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Oct 28th, 2007 @ 2:54 am
I got good beer,waiting for red sox to win,cheers!
Comment by infinndel — Sun, Oct 28th, 2007 @ 2:58 am
Good beer and no one to argue with and aggravate!
Comment by infinndel — Sun, Oct 28th, 2007 @ 3:00 am
Sorry, its the Rum
remember I am a right winger, so I can take responsability, and not blame Bush or the Government for my actions.
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, Oct 28th, 2007 @ 3:30 am
who is susan kuronen?
Comment by hemmetti — Sun, Oct 28th, 2007 @ 7:42 am
testing
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Oct 28th, 2007 @ 10:51 am
@112: Good blues music. I listened to that yesterday.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Sun, Oct 28th, 2007 @ 1:01 pm