Man, if they are positive their life is hindered!

Police says he did not oppose the publishing of his photo (according today’s HS)

How come you didn’t make your usual funny photoshop thing?

If the man knows he’s carrying a deadly virus that can kill people, keeps having unprotected sex with multiple partners, not telling them anything or even to his wife etc, then yes his photo should be published. Not to make sure his life is ruined, but to make sure he can’t ruin the life of the others.

12 plus 18 women equals 30?!

If that isn’t aggravated mass attempted murder then I don’t know what is.

They should hang him by his nasty cock in the public square.

“I never realized that having sex while knowingly having HIV was a crime.”

No, I don’t think that is the problem. This would not be an issue if he told them first that he has AIDS and gave them the opportunity to properly protect themselves. This guy, even telling them that he has AIDS, would probably find plenty of Finnish women willing to sleep with him.

Not for anything, but the impression I got while living in Finland is that Finnish women are pretty damn irresponsible when it comes to protection. When sober and even worse if alcohol has been consumed.
Maybe this is because Finns don’t see there being a problem with sexually transmitted diseases in Finland.

Yeah this is a crime that falls under attempted murder or manslaughter. Its the same as poisoning someone knowingly. Its a crime!!! Criminals lose rights thats part of the thing that happens to criminals so sure post his picture.

Yeah this is a crime that falls under attempted murder or manslaughter.

Yeah it’s also a crime in many states in the US. I don’t know why Phil seems surprised. Regardless of the drugs out there, HIV is a death sentence until the day they find a cure, which has been hard to do considering the pace at which it has mutated. When you knowingly give someone HIV you might as well just shoot them in the head, it would be more humane. Posting his picture is a good way for his victims to find out about him and to get themselves tested before they unknowingly infect someone.

What if the person knows their partner has AIDS and gets AIDS from the partner, is it still a crime?

Fred Fry:
“Not for anything, but the impression I got while living in Finland is that Finnish women are pretty damn irresponsible when it comes to protection.”

Did you sleep around a lot in Finland? My experience is that Finnish women, apart from some very, very rare exceptions, never have sex, unprotected or otherwise.

“My experience is that Finnish women, apart from some very, very rare exceptions, never have sex, unprotected or otherwise.”
– 1. Try it as an American.
– 2. This guy seemed to have no problem finding willing victims…

I will decline to answer your other question. However, I have to say, the movie Levottamat is not entirely fictional. (We had that as the main Feature for a Finnish Movie night here and one of our Finnish friends refused to come because she did not want her husband to see it.) I think Finland is a much more interesting place to live in as a foreigner if your single. Had I seen Levottamat before moving to Finland, I definitely would have moved to Turku instead of Helsinki;)

A free one way ticket to Iran?

Fred:

1. Nah, too tankerous. Might pass off as Dutch, though.
2. Has to be the trendy hairdo, the earring or the stylish beard+moustache.

“I have to say, the movie Levottamat is not entirely fictional.”

Joo, kyl määki Turuus…

Presso had a fun article about the inferiority complex that Turku has in relation to Helsinki. A barefooted Helsinkian myself, I don’t quite get it: while Helsinki was built yesterday, Turku is a proper medieval European town.

What astonishes me is that this guy has wife and kids. Now if his wife was a one bit like Mrs. r.n. his dinner would have been waiting in cold pot on the parking lot and he would have spent the night in the car after the first sidestep.

“Finnish women, apart from some very, very rare exceptions, never have sex, unprotected or otherwise.”

Awww, you have been too picky. You go out, meet a nice lady, feel the spiritual connection or something like that => you end up drinking tea and having endless philosophical discussion or literally checking out the etchings. Instead, go for those awful kanas you couldn’t normally stand and try to pretend you really have something in common => bingo.

#13: Being invited anywhere would have been something. But these troubles are in the past, anyway.

Cut his fukcn balls off, that peace of shit.

Why was the initial sentence so light: a conditional sentence of less than 2 years.

Did he also infect multiple victims then?

According to Iltalehti, he wants his picture to be published so all of the possible sex partners could have themselves tested. Only decent thing he could possibly do in this situation, being such an asshole.

I’ve read somewhere that in some cases when people get HIV they tend to “revenge” it by having multiple unprotected intercourses. Somekind of mental issue coming with the fact.

Peter – Ironically, Finland, land of so-called equality for women, seems to give sex offenders especially light sentences. I’m not a supporter of the death penalty in general, but sex offenders seem to be repeat offenders, time after time after time, and especially where children are involved, a prison cell with a bunch of angry guys who have been told of the offense or, perhaps better, having tattooed the words ‘child molester’ on their foreheads, is an expedient way to take care of the problem. The dude will likely get a slap on the wrist and be out infecting people within a week of release.

hfb with classic retardedness again.

Peter – In Finland all sentences are light. If you kill someone your sentence will be 8-12 years. And if you don’t have earlier sentence you have to be in prison 4-6 years. If you kill many people your sentence is still propably max 12 years.
Murderers will be in prison about 15 years. Of course they’ll have some vacation from prison…

hfb – Women can also be sexoffenders, and especially where children are involved…

All sentences are light as long as it has nothing to do with white collar crime. You can randomly attack someone, kill even, without any reason and get out sooner than the guy in the cell next to you who didn’t feel like indulging the socialist rogue state that Finland is.

The Finnish penalty system works better than it’s counterpart in USA. Putting lunatics to prison doesn’t work. It doesn’t matter how long a phaedophile or similar sits in prison, he is going to do it again as soon as he gets out. Because of the mental illness.

I think hfb is spot on. But you can always count on some bitter asshole attacking her with a ‘clever’ one-liner for speaking out her mind and hitting inconveniently close to the truth… I personally know of a case where a young woman was raped and the rapist received a 6 month sentence. Yes, you heard me right. Ruin another persons life for good -> get 6 months in jail. Only in Finland.

#21:
It doesn’t matter how long a phaedophile or similar sits in prison, he is going to do it again as soon as he gets out.

Well that’s the main argument against the finnish system. We need to keep those people locked up or they’ll do it over and over again.

One more example. A year or so ago HS wrote about a case in Myllypuro where a man exposed himself to minors and masturbated in front of them in public. The sentence? A small fine. If this isn’t fucked up then I don’t know what is.

The ten year old girls were totally, utterly horrified and shocked. But it’s nice to know that the man was taken away…err, I mean he was given a small fine so that he cannot repeat his act anytime soon, err…wait… But of course our system just absolutely beats the US system. Go Finland!!

What was shocking from the press is to have released the “lastname”.
I don’t think family members should bear the humiliation.

Regarding the way it was mediatized, it’s only valid if it is a way to find more woman that have been in contact with that person OR to highlight to the finnish citizen that HIV protection doesn’t apply only for emerging countries.

People should know by now that sexual disease can spread without protection, and diseases there are plenty: Chlamady, Herpes, Syphilis etc, etc…

This issue will aplpy to different countries, ok US will always choose the most radical solution: when will people be tested for disease before entering the country? some kind of quanrantine?? i guess no long a republican will propose this kind of law.

In France they have passed, last week a law allowing DNA testing for foreigner to be able to join their family member..and most probably put them into some sort of database…i do hope this is not the first sign of a start of crazy regime.

“Putting lunatics to prison doesn’t work.”

Last time I checked it seems to do a good job of preventing them from killing people outside prison.

Face it, most every person that kills or attacks others can be declared insane by the very fact that their actions are not those of sane people. So lets get that out of the way and base punishments on the crime committed. If these people are sick, then they were sick before doing the crime. That is when family and friends should seek out assistance and treatment, and even confinement, not after. That is assuming that they are not sick as well. So how about going like on the ‘mental patient’ and going after those who were in a position to help them but decided not to. That kind of makes them an accessory to the crime, doesn’t it….

Is is really good that Finland is so concerned about why somebody did a criminal act. That however, is only half the problem.

Hi Phil,

I think the crime doesn’t pay. So he got what he deserved. Now if he really premedidated that then he should be condamned quite strongly.

Just think about the victims? what about the victims of the victim (is they had a normal relation and that was just a one night mistake???)

by the way i just started a new blog : http://housingfinland.expat-blog.net/

If one is interested in putting comments in what I see a major issues for the social, wealth and economics of Finland.

by the way I tried to create a bog in your site but didn’t find the possibility. Any chance to have a link to it?

You 22-26 are all wrong. It doesn’t go right if you put lunatics to prison. Once they get out, you face the same things done again by the same people. Especially people like these should get proper treatment from professionals while locked up. If you just put them away and do nothing, then it’s just useless waste of money. If they are so messed up that they no longer serve the society, they should be held in a lunatic asylum as long as needed.

The US justice and penalty system is madness. I would not want to live in a country like that. Not long ago a few teenagers were sentenced for life for beating their schoolmate. They were accused for attempted murder. No suprise the “criminals” were black kids and the victim was a white kid. A single mom was fined for 220 000 dollars because of her daughter was sharing music online. Her life was probably hard enough before, now it is completely ruined.
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article2592637.ece

In Finland, kids do not go to prison for beating their schoolmates.
Neither does a single mom get 220 000 dollar fines because of her daughter has shared music online. The fines here are based on incomes anyway.

For arguments sake, look at the statistics. The Finnish system is statistically working A LOT better.

And yes, you should be more concerned about WHY something has happened instead of WHAT has happened. I am sorry I have to pull the “war on terror” in to this, but what do you think: does it make terrorists stop, or does it just create more bin ladens for the future?

And I just have to add one thing. Not many think themselfs as criminals, but what if you HAVE to kill someone? Let’s say, a phaedophil or someone who threatens you or your family. What then? Still supporting the harder sentences from the US system?

One more hehehe. I forgot the statistics:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm

For arguments sake, look at the statistics. The Finnish system is statistically working A LOT better.

What statistics? Give us a link. If you mean the relative number of prisoners, it’s first and foremost because of Finland’s laughable sentences. I mean, expose yourself to kids and receive no jail sentence. Sure, we have a low number of prisoners.

Not long ago a few teenagers were sentenced for life for beating their schoolmate.

That sounds a bit harsh but then again I don’t know the exact details of that case. On the other hand, in Finland you can kill a person, go to jail for 4-6 years, again kill someone, again receive a relatively short sentence… Which is better?

Not many think themselfs as criminals, but what if you HAVE to kill someone? [...] Still supporting the harder sentences from the US system?

Having to kill someone is so rare it’s hardly worth mentioning. And
it certainly is no reason to let every offender off easy; the courts
ponder each case separately so that they can take the specific circumstances into account. Besides, doesn’t handing down light sentences to the repeat offenders increase the chance of a good law-abiding citizen having to defend himself by force?

Anyway, this is completely besides the point. In the US you are actually allowed to defend yourself. In Finland you are not. Say someone breaks into your house at night, wielding a knife. You shoot him in the chest. Guess who’s the criminal now? What if you shoot him in the foot? You’re probably still a criminal. What you’re supposed to do is either get raped/robbed/beaten or then gently wrestle the attacker to the ground, disarm him and call the police. But what if you’re a 50kg woman or a 80yo grandpa? Tough titty.

I wrote:
What statistics? Give us a link.

And that’s what you did. I forgot to refresh the page before writing my reply, sorry.

One of the figures actually seems to be the relative number of prisoners on which I commented. The murder rate figures are interesting although they fail to show the reasons for the higher rate in the US. I doubt it’s at all because of the way the justice systems work here and there.

Wheres everybody screaming “racism”? My brother is crucified just because he is a Finnish man.

(Can’t believe he scored so much, must be a lot of horny toads in Rovaniemi)

“In the US you are actually allowed to defend yourself. In Finland you are not.”

Not true. The Finnish constitution says it clearly, you are not punished for defending yourself. You can and must do the necessary for protecting yourself and others, but you’re not allowed to do more than is absolutely necessary. You probably meant you are not allowed to buy a handgun for selfdefence? The statistics probably show you why. Compare Canada and USA for instance. It’s hard to hide a rifle under your clothes, but you can protect your home with it. Ergo, you should change the handgun laws.

“Besides, doesn’t handing down light sentences to the repeat offenders increase the chance of a good law-abiding citizen having to defend himself by force?”

Not according to the statistics. The stats clearly show that the sentences do not affect the crime rates.

It’s not just the crime statistics which are interesting. You should compare them all. Ever thought that social services and public health care might have some effect to the crime rates?

“Not long ago a few teenagers were sentenced for life for beating their schoolmate.”
– Go and read some facts about the story. 6 black ‘kids’ blindsided a white guy grom behind knocking him unconscious and then kicking him. One one was sentenced and it was a black prosecutor that pressed the case. Sure there were only whites on the jury, but that was because out of 150 jury summons sent out, only 50 people showed up and none were black. Oh, the one who was convicted, had a history of violence.

Say someone breaks into your house at night, wielding a knife. You shoot him in the chest. Guess who’s the criminal now? What if you shoot him in the foot? You’re probably still a criminal.
– If you are going to do anything, make sure you kill him. If will save you all sorts of trouble later on. For starters, you won’t have to deal with the lies coming from the intruder.

It doesn’t go right if you put lunatics to prison. Once they get out, you face the same things done again by the same people.
– Sad solution, but don’t let them out. As it was stated above, these people just don’t stop. And look at all the lives they damage. This one idiot has screwed up the lives of 30+ women plus families. That’s just one guy.

Personally, I am not sure that they can be rehabilitated. Same goes for the terrorists. They hated us before. Treating them nicer will not make them hate us less. They have been brainwashed to believe otherwise. Not only that, even if you think you cured them, how wise is it to let them back out into society?

@18,
Civilized people do not delegate punishment to lynch mobs, in prison or out of prison.

Merely throwing criminals into jail for a long time has a real financial impact:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/21/MNG4KPUKV51.DTL

“Based on current spending trends, California’s prison budget will overtake spending on the state’s universities in five years. No other big state in the country spends close to as much on its prisons compared with universities.”

“Jacobson of the Vera Institute said one of the greatest problems in California is not just that it spends so much on prisons but that it gets such poor results. New York state, for instance, is enjoying both a declining inmate population and declining crime rates.

“When you think about some of the alternatives for spending that kind of money, there are much better things you can do for public safety that would be a lot more effective,” he said.”

Also, while committing crimes, criminals tend to think they won’t get caught (perhaps except the more pathological cases.) A solution would probably start from education, improvement in social structure, poverty reduction and more vigilant crime prevention. Based on the presumption of innocence, the laws can only punish the guilty – which makes it an reactive measurement. So the criminal laws are the last resort in the justice system and tougher laws don’t always make people safer.

Back to the topic. If Finnish women (and men, for that matter) all learn to use condom properly as a protective measure against STD/STI, the risk of them getting infected would have been greatly reduced, and we would have been sitting here with the issue of criminal intent. Again, it’s the (sex) education that would have made a significant difference at the first place, not the law.

Finally, while there are malicious people intentionally infecting others, there are also some who unknowingly contact the virus through their ex-partner (wife / girlfriend / husband / boyfriend) and subsequently enter another relationship. The former should be condemned, but it’s unfair to blame the latter.

The landmark case was KKO 1993:92 in which the supreme court sentenced a guy to three years in prison for aggravated manslaughter. He had had anal sex with another man several times during the 1980s, without protection, while being aware of his own HIV infection, and without informing his partner. The victim died of AIDS while the case was in the district court.

In KKO 1999:102, a HIV-positive person had bitten and scratched (with bloody fingernails) police officer. The supreme court found that as a murder attempt (which the person was charged with) it was ineffective due to the low risk of contagion and thus convicted the person of resisting a police officer.

“Sad solution, but don’t let them out. As it was stated above, these people just don’t stop. And look at all the lives they damage. This one idiot has screwed up the lives of 30+ women plus families. That’s just one guy.”

This one is going to die in jail most likely. He’s got a deadly virus. We need to keep in mind that locking someone in jail for good, doesn’t bring victims’ life back to normal. The money should be spent to prevent these things from happening again, not waste it to prisons.

“Same goes for the terrorists. They hated us before. Treating them nicer will not make them hate us less. They have been brainwashed to believe otherwise.”

A bit off topic but why didn’t they hate you before the world wars i wonder? Maybe the proxy wars has got something to do with it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_war
Really, things do not happen without a reason. I’d say YOU have been brainwashed to believe otherwise. When the avarage joe in the streets of USA is being interviewed, they usually want to crush the whole middle east. That means crushing the allies too. If that’s not a result of a brainwash then I don’t know what is.

“The money should be spent to prevent these things from happening again, not waste it to prisons.”
– So maybe he should have been locked up when they found out about him having AIDS. Or perhaps marking him in some clear fashion, or how about jailing him for good the last time he was caught. That would have been prevention against all these new victims he created. So jailing is often prevention against future crimes.

“Really, things do not happen without a reason. I’d say YOU have been brainwashed to believe otherwise. When the avarage joe in the streets of USA is being interviewed, they usually want to crush the whole middle east.”

– Sorry, but your wrong. Most Americans beforehand could have cared less about the rest of the world. Even now close to half of Americans want to solve the terrorist crisis by giving terrorists nice big hugs to show that they are loved, like they want to do with hardened criminals. Really, aren’t you paying attention to the debates in the US about this??????

– Me, I have been to the Middle East. No brainwashing here. I think the solution to the area is a good standard education for the masses. Sure some of the terrorists have been well-educated, but it is this uneducated class that provides a steady supply of murderers. And yes, there are at least two people in the middle east that need to be neutralized and at least two heads of state that need to be removed. (By the way, it was you that brought the conversation off-topic…) That and stop adjusting to accomidate for the religious beliefs. Muslims in the US deal just fine adapting to US culture. (For the mostpart)

Oh Miss South Carolina are we going to have some fun with you here Now you say that locking people up for life is a waste and imply the evil system as used in the US is inhumane and unfair. Then you ask us “what if you have to kill someone?” and use the example of a threat against my family. In your little world is a threat against someone’s family a justification for killing? Oh that’s right, of course. Killing is hardly a serious crime because in your little world the killer would only sit in a room with professionals for a short time before being “cured” and released on the public again. Simple….
As for your mentioning of fines and the USD 220000 against a woman for file sharing, what about equal sums and more for driving too fast? One well known case involved a speed of 71 kmph in a 40 km zone at 1.ooam Now that is fair of course because it was income related right? So do you mean if this woman was a little more wealthy and this fine was levelled that it would be ok?
Welcome to FFT but please, having read a few of your posts on other matters, think a little before you write. Pleased to have a new “I love Finland” to read on FFT but just don’t be so Finnish here

(I know, it’s a result of the best education in the world that you are so Finnish but at least try hey???)

“So jailing is often prevention against future crimes.”

And once again statistics are against that. I believe in statistics and results, more than I believe in hypotetical guessing.

Yes it was me who brought this off topic terrorist thing in to this. And I am still sorry for doing that. In your reply you completely skipped the real reason why terrorists exists, the proxy wars. You are claiming that poor life and education is the reason for terrorism. Now how many suicide attacks have the mexicans been up to lately? Seriously, the proxy wars are the real reason for terrorism. If you want to point your finger somewhere, point it towards CIA, KGB and MI6.

“In your little world is a threat against someone’s family a justification for killing?”

If we are talking about organised criminals then yes it is. Of course you can let them kill your family because of ethical reasons if you want. But I won’t. I brought that subject up because you should look things from different aspects. I already said, not many thinks themselves as criminals. Until they have to break the law to survive.

“in your little world the killer would only sit in a room with professionals for a short time before being “cured” and released on the public again. Simple….”

I’m not following you? What I mean is not to waste money for too long sentences because it has no impact in crime rates. Instead use the money left from shorter sentences to prevent crimes. And by the way I’m very keen to see how you are going to prove the statistics otherwise. There are plenty of articles about this subject written by americans themselves too. Seems like some americans have also noticed that the european system works better. You seem to think this is not a good thing and try to prove facts wrong? Why?

“So do you mean if this woman was a little more wealthy and this fine was levelled that it would be ok?”

I mean the fines are based on incomes in Finland. This system is proven to be fair and effective. A fine is supposed to be a penalty. If a millonaire gets fined for 1000

“In your little world is a threat against someone’s family a justification for killing?”

If we are talking about organised criminals then yes it is. Of course you can let them kill your family because of ethical reasons if you want. But I won’t. I brought that subject up because you should look things from different aspects. I already said, not many thinks themselves as criminals. Until they have to break the law to survive.

“in your little world the killer would only sit in a room with professionals for a short time before being “cured” and released on the public again. Simple….”

I’m not following you? What I mean is not to waste money for too long sentences because it has no impact in crime rates. Instead use the money left from shorter sentences to prevent crimes. And by the way I’m very keen to see how you are going to prove the statistics otherwise. There are plenty of articles about this subject written by americans themselves too. Seems like some americans have also noticed that the european system works better. You seem to think this is not a good thing and try to prove facts wrong? Why?

“So do you mean if this woman was a little more wealthy and this fine was levelled that it would be ok?”

I mean the fines are based on incomes in Finland. This system is proven to be fair and effective. A fine is supposed to be a penalty. If a millonaire gets fined for 1000$ for speeding, it means nothing to him. If a poor worker get’s fined for 1000$ then it means something. Other countries in EU are finding out the possibilities to change their system to resemble the Finnish one. So I guess our system has to be worth something.

“Welcome to FFT but please, having read a few of your posts on other matters, think a little before you write. Pleased to have a new “I love Finland” to read on FFT but just don’t be so Finnish here”

So loving your own country is a bad thing? And you are definitely not welcome if you say things like they are? Like some things in Finland (or europe) work better than they do in USA?

““So jailing is often prevention against future crimes.”

And once again statistics are against that. I believe in statistics and results, more than I believe in hypotetical guessing.”

– You did not get it at all. I was referring to the person who is jailed. How on earth can he commit more crimes when he is behind bars????? It might not stop others, but at least you have a person provien to be a criminal removed from sociaety. Please provide a reference.

“I mean the fines are based on incomes in Finland. This system is proven to be fair and effective. A fine is supposed to be a penalty. If a millonaire gets fined for 1000″

– Please reference the proof you state above.

– If it were truly fair thant everyone would be against it because it would hurt all income level earners the same. How about instead of a heavy fine, the police just take your car away. Rich people would lose expensive cars and the poor would lose an inexpensive one. That would be fair as the cost to all is one car.

– There should be the risk of losing one’s license which is independant from how much money you have. Continue to drive, and there should be the risk of having your car taken away. continue still and there should be the risk of jail. Really, this is simple. Sure the rich guy might get off the first time, but the system does catch up with you. The rich guy would probably also spend much more in lawyer fees, but then again, the STATE does not get any of that money and this is little more than a cash extraction operation.

Oh, one more thing about the sppeding penalty. I have no income in Finland so I am subject to the minimun fine. That just came to mind since I will be picking up my rental car later this week in Helsinki;)

How fair is that!

#47- It’s been a great summer of speed on 2 wheels knowing I have no Finnish income either. Poor Finns though………. It really is the best and fairest system I have seen.

#45- So now we’re talking about “organized gangs of criminal child sex offenders” threatening my family? I don’t live in Belgium so I think the chance of this “having to kill” example you give is really small (unless you screw with my football team)
As for your use of the money saved from short jail terms to be used in preventing crime well lets just say…….????? WTF are you talking about? Let the prisoners out after light sentencing and redirect the prison budget to crime prevention and Police spending? Something like that? No wonder leftist politics died years ago. Sounds like you work for the Finnish State Treasury Dept.
What you’re saying is to let the criminals out and make sure we have enough resources to fight the crime (or prevent it) which means the criminals will be caught and imprisoned then soon released and caught again and……. Get the picture?

“You did not get it at all. I was referring to the person who is jailed. How on earth can he commit more crimes when he is behind bars????? It might not stop others, but at least you have a person provien to be a criminal removed from sociaety. Please provide a reference.”

http://www.rikosseuraamus.fi/25234.htm

This is exactly what I’m trying to say. It does not stop the others neither does it prevent a prison cycle. You also need to calculate how much does it cost to keep one prisoner in jail for a year. Then you can see how much money you can redirect in to more effective ways to prevent crimes. The more prisoners you can put to normal life, the more the crime rates keep decreasing.

As an example to this case, sex criminals with drug and alcohol problems are more likely to do it again than the ones who have been in rehab.

“- Please reference the proof you state above.”

http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/200708276500198_uu.shtml
It’s in Finnish but it says a swedish millionaire got 20 000 euro fines for speeding. In sweden it had been only 427 euros.
The swedish newspaper aftonbladet’s poll said 70% of the swedish support the Finnish system as a replacement for their current system.

“How about instead of a heavy fine, the police just take your car away. Rich people would lose expensive cars and the poor would lose an inexpensive one. That would be fair as the cost to all is one car.”

Nice idea but doesn’t work in practice. That would give millionaires the licence to drive as fast as they want with a cheap car technically. And what if the car isn’t yours, but rented or so?
However, there has been a debate if this should be applied for drunk drivers or not.

“There should be the risk of losing one’s license which is independant from how much money you have.”

They will take your licence away in Finland, if your speed is well over the limit. And in some other cases too.

“Sure the rich guy might get off the first time, but the system does catch up with you”

Yeah but what about the poor? This scenario doesn’t treat people equally. Public transportation, cars and such cost big money for the poor but not to the rich. This gives the message that you can do what you want if you got the money. And that’s a bad bad message.

“I have no income in Finland so I am subject to the minimun fine. That just came to mind since I will be picking up my rental car later this week in Helsinki;) How fair is that!”

Let me remind you that we are not idiots. You are being fined even so. If you are a citizen of EU you’ll get the “lottery ticket” in your mail box at your home country.

“#47- It’s been a great summer of speed on 2 wheels knowing I have no Finnish income either. Poor Finns though………. It really is the best and fairest system I have seen.”

That’s odd. Howcome the swedish millionaire got the 20 000 “lottery ticket” then? By the way don’t the cops take your licence away and give it back at the border if you’re a foreign person?

“So now we’re talking about “organized gangs of criminal child sex offenders” threatening my family?”

I am not. But feel free to do so yourself.

“As for your use of the money saved from short jail terms to be used in preventing crime well lets just say…….????? WTF are you talking about?”

I am talking about the system that works better than it’s counterpart in USA.

“Let the prisoners out after light sentencing and redirect the prison budget to crime prevention and Police spending? Something like that?”

Something like that yes.

“No wonder leftist politics died years ago.”

I don’t undestand this one.

“What you’re saying is to let the criminals out and make sure we have enough resources to fight the crime (or prevent it) which means the criminals will be caught and imprisoned then soon released and caught again and……. Get the picture?”

Actually this system has very good results in preventing the prison cycle. Now we have years of experience how this system works (and it actually works) in practice, but feel free to educate us. We are more than happy to improve this lousy system of ours. There’s just one thing. YOU NEED FACTS TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS.

For fucks sake I have given you god knows how many links to sources backing up my claims, yet I haven’t seen a single one from you guys.

How would you prevent a crime like this one? Tattoo the guy’s weiner with glow-in-the-dark ink to alert sober-enough sex partners of the health hazard of unprotected sex?

There’s a name for policy favouring crime fighting and prevention – A police state as in order to prevent such sorts of crime you’ll have to go well beyond the usual boundaries of privacy and personal freedoms.

My husband mentioned a crime in Finland years ago where a hobo/park drunk raped a very young girl and left her dead and mutilated. He was convicted, spent something like 5 years in the country club prison in solitary quarters, but was ‘mysteriously’ killed after he was released, a whodunnit which the locals didn’t seem too interested in solving.

And Miss SC – If the system is so good, why are domestic violence and other sex crimes in Finland so high? By your reasoning treating alcoholics would merely keep them in a rehab cycle so one shouldn’t bother getting them off the juice at all.

This is exactly what I’m trying to say. It does not stop the others neither does it prevent a prison cycle.
– Yes, but it does stop the specific person who is prevented from leaving prison. The reference you provided above acually supports my comment in that half of the people released end up back in prison. How about spending money to better predict which of the 50% is expected back and not let them out. As for the prison cycle, if you don’t let them out, the cycle for them stops.

By the way don’t the cops take your licence away and give it back at the border if you’re a foreign person?
– No.

“Yeah but what about the poor?”
– There are no poor in Finland. Everyone keeps telling me this. All the poor are in America. Funny, though, the American poor don’t seem to have a hard time buying cars, and expensive items. So F the poor. I am tired of hearing about them. There is no shortage of work available and no shortage of free training for them to get good-paying jobs (Turku Shipyard for starters). If they want to sit life out and collect on whatever amount of money you want to fight to give them, them so be it. (Or if they never want to advance past an entry-level job, then that is their choice. I should not have to subsidize their poor decisions.)
– How about basing prison sentences on how much money you have. Maybe a poor person is more likely to end back in jail so he should get a longer prison sentence. A rich person might be much less likely to end up back in jail as it hugely effects his income so perhaps he should get a much shorter prison sentence. He is also removed from much more than a poorer person and one might say is punished more.

They should hang him by his nasty cock in the public square.

Nobody then read the tidbits in the news today: he’d been convicted of similar charges for 1 year 9 months already prior to this. Due to the publishing of the picture 4 new “victims” come forward… they published also a picture of where the bloke had lived. Yay, hickdom..

#49 “Actually this system has very good results in preventing the prison cycle.”

Do you understand what a cycle is? You are suggesting a way in which we not only create but support a cycle. Now as Fred says, leave them behind lock and key and that’s the end of the cycle.

You sure you’re not related to that “other Miss” we saw on youtube a few weeks back?

‘why are domestic violence and other sex crimes in Finland so high?’ (hbf, post 50)
Finland is, by European standards, a violent country. I don’t know the reason but it’s not something recent, it is a long-term trend; when violence declined in most of Europe in the 19th century, the opposite happened here.
I don’t know why you pick those particular crimes to make this point, though. Finland is really an egalitarian country and in 2006 half the victims of domestic serious violent crimes reported to the police were men. Go, girls! For less serious crimes the figure is lower, but then it is quite hard to get the police or the courts to take you seriously if you tell them that your wife or GF hit you, unless she uses a knife or something.

prince of dorkness – I don’t believe I singled out a gender though I think the sex crimes against children are far lower with women. Ironically, one of the highest profile cases of a female sex offender/serial killer in the US was Aileen Wuornos, a woman of Finnish descent who claimed her Finnish grandfather sexually abused her and her Finnish grandmother was an abusive drunk.

Domestic violence and sex crimes were mentioned because, well, isn’t that what this guy’s crimes fall under?

And for what bloddy reason you still keep your sources to yourselves?
You still keep claiming the finnish system is not better than the US one, pointing out rare crimes in order to support your claims (with out a source naturally) and then forget all the good sides of the system which I have pointed out. Seems like you don’t even want to think otherwise. Thank goodness americans don’t have the right to vote in this country.

“Yes, but it does stop the specific person who is prevented from leaving prison. The reference you provided above acually supports my comment in that half of the people released end up back in prison.”

Read again. Under 10 out of 100 of the first-timers ended up in prison vortex. I would recommend to read the whole story before claiming it supports your say.

How many times I have to say this? While your man stays in prison forever, it costs MONEY to society. A lot of it. You can use that kind of money to decrease the crime rates, which is far more effective way than having lots of prisons and prisoners. Try to understand the big picture.

If you really want to prevent the same person to do the crime again, while decreasing the crime rates, you should be supporting death penalty instead of long sentences.

“How would you prevent a crime like this one? Tattoo the guy’s weiner with glow-in-the-dark ink to alert sober-enough sex partners of the health hazard of unprotected sex?”

Increasing the sex education and especially the importance of a condom, keeping these cases in media longer, maybe forcing the offender to meet some groups etc. Lot’s of things you can and should do.

“There’s a name for policy favouring crime fighting and prevention – A police state as in order to prevent such sorts of crime you’ll have to go well beyond the usual boundaries of privacy and personal freedoms.”

Reported police violence and unfair trials are a lot more common in the states than here. I have already linked some statistics in these comments.

“My husband mentioned a crime in Finland years ago where a hobo/park drunk raped a very young girl and left her dead and mutilated. He was convicted, spent something like 5 years in the country club prison in solitary quarters, but was ‘mysteriously’ killed after he was released, a whodunnit which the locals didn’t seem too interested in solving.”

Things like these don’t happen in the states?

“And Miss SC – If the system is so good, why are domestic violence and other sex crimes in Finland so high? By your reasoning treating alcoholics would merely keep them in a rehab cycle so one shouldn’t bother getting them off the juice at all.”

Domestic violence is a lot higher in the states than here. I have given source to this earlier. About the sex crimes: During 2005 27% of the sex crimes were done by foreign people. That is quite a lot considering that only 2% of the residents are foreign. Immigrants (such as asylym seekers) are usually being deported.

>>>Sure there were only whites on the jury, but that was because out of 150 jury summons sent out, only 50 people showed up and none were black. Oh, the one who was convicted, had a history of violence.

Weird. Well let me post it again if it works now.

“Sure there were only whites on the jury, but that was because out of 150 jury summons sent out, only 50 people showed up and none were black. Oh, the one who was convicted, had a history of violence.”

The BBC interviewed the black people of the town. They all said they had not ask a single black person in the jury. Those blacks who wished to be there were all denied. That is the life in the Southern USA.

So, your entire argument is that it’s worse in the states and those damn dirty foreigners are responsible for a large chunk of it? You must have gone to the Finnish school of logic and debate which seems to lack the former and has no capacity for anything but “hey, we’re better than $country” in the latter.

Thank goodness americans don’t have the right to vote in this country.
– WRONG! You can in other than national elections, provided that you have been resident for 3+ years. Phil can vote in Finland, just not for Parliament or President.

Read again. Under 10 out of 100 of the first-timers ended up in prison vortex. I would recommend to read the whole story before claiming it supports your say.
– Well you want to use the vortex. I stated that they if you do not let them out, you won’t have to re-arrest them. The report states:
Results
1. Follow-up time: Over a half of all the released returned to prison
– You forgot to mention that one reason the ‘vortex’ rate is low is because people in the prison cycle live MUCH SHORTER LIVES than the rest of us. So some never get back into prison because they are unable to commit more crimes because they are dead.

How many times I have to say this? While your man stays in prison forever, it costs MONEY to society. A lot of it.
– Money well spend. Letting them loose on the street cost money too, to the victims. I have car break-in repair bills and stolen property. Be sure to include those costs as well.

Try to understand the big picture.
– Thanks for talking down to us. I guess we are all just stupid that we don’t see the light. My view of the big picture is removing known criminals from society. It is a very simple concept.

If you really want to prevent the same person to do the crime again, while decreasing the crime rates, you should be supporting death penalty instead of long sentences.
– I do but did not bring it up here as you know damn well that the death penalty is a non-starter in Finland. Or are you open to investigating that as a solution to the problem as well?

Finally we have found out why winter posts here. He seems to have a sister (or at least half sister) that has spent some time in South Carolina

“So, your entire argument is that it’s worse in the states and those damn dirty foreigners are responsible for a large chunk of it?”

My argument:
1. The Finnish system works better.
2. Never said dirty foreigners, just pointed out a fact.

“- WRONG! You can in other than national elections, provided that you have been resident for 3+ years. Phil can vote in Finland, just not for Parliament or President.”

The Parliament and the President signature is needed for changing laws. American person can’t affect to our laws via voting. Which is nice. You can however, affect in who is going to be in a political party via voting. Does USA have this possibility?

“Well you want to use the vortex. I stated that they if you do not let them out, you won’t have to re-arrest them. The report states:”

Let see that again. First timers rarely go back to prison. The ones who do, obviously have had more YEARS in prison than the ones who don’t go back. You know why? Because the ones re-entering are unable to adjust to normal life anymore. Because they have been in prison too long. Because they are unable to get rid of drugs in prison. They can no longer serve the society, because people like you want to keep them behind bars forever. Why keep them alive then? Isn’t it just a waste of money?

“You forgot to mention that one reason the ‘vortex’ rate is low is because people in the prison cycle live MUCH SHORTER LIVES than the rest of us.”

No offence mate, but that means the opposite. You’d be right if the ones NOT falling in to the cycle would have shorter lives. But it is the opposite like you said it yourself.

“Money well spend. Letting them loose on the street cost money too, to the victims. I have car break-in repair bills and stolen property. Be sure to include those costs as well.”

Someone already posted a good article about this matter. Read it please.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/21/MNG4KPUKV51.DTL

“Thanks for talking down to us. I guess we are all just stupid that we don’t see the light. My view of the big picture is removing known criminals from society. It is a very simple concept.”

Yes and this simple concept is not effective. You need to kill them or you get no results in this scenario of yours. Either fewer years to the first timers so they would have atleast some hope, or the death penalty. But do not keep them in a dark room without a hope to be free someday again.

“I do but did not bring it up here as you know damn well that the death penalty is a non-starter in Finland.”

Not just Finland but Europe. We are not uncivilized rednecks here, we think before we do. Death penalty was very common in the dark ages. Now people have facts and statistics. And the death penalty is not supported by the facts and the statistics.

“Or are you open to investigating that as a solution to the problem as well?”

I think I’m done wasting time on this subject. If you want to have the death penalty, relocate yourself to china, north-korea or texas. You are in a wrong country and continent for not supporting european values.

That’s right, he comes from that country with the 52 states afterall doesn’t he Miss SC? Genius.

Your stats are wondeful but unfortunately the world you live in doesn’t exist. You fail to see the reality of the situation. Certainly you can’t believe that letting crims out earlier would mean less of a “vortex” and make a financial saving for society. It just stands against all common sense and experience.
You also mentioned someone was “pointing out rare crimes to support their claims.” Do you mean something like your claim of an “organized crime gang or sex offender threatening my family?” Now that is an everyday occurance.
Finally and most shockingly you claim “increasing sex education and the better use of a condom” would have prevented this crime. Truely? Are you really that far detached from reality? Do you think sitting down and “further educating” Finns, in 2007, about the need for a condom would have prevented this shit head from doing what he did? Do you really think it would have stopped the easy one night stand bimbos he boned from opening their legs?
My God. You have lost the plot. Really. You are related to that Miss on YouTube after such stupid comments. 52 States first was a warning but this is just the cream on the cake.

“That’s right, he comes from that country with the 52 states afterall doesn’t he Miss SC? Genius.”
“You are related to that Miss on YouTube after such stupid comments.”

This is beautiful. That 52 states comment was sarcasm, like the usage of the name Miss South Carolina. All referring to the ignorance and stupidity of the majority of Americans. And it’s cherry on a cake by the way. Here, have fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLXRVvA6T9k

Simply stating ‘the Finnish system works better” is not an argument, it’s an opinion and your comment about the foreigners insinuated that, indeed, if there weren’t a 2% population in Finland that 25% of the sex crimes wouldn’t exist without considering the possibility that they’re either more likely to get caught or more likely to see a conviction.

Also, trying to compare a penal system between a tiny homogenous country of 5 million and a diverse country of 350+ million is, well, pretty ignorant.

“Not just Finland but Europe. We are not uncivilized rednecks here…” *cough* So, the French penal system has been reformed that much now has it? Whatever. The religious fuckheads out in the Midwest are almost as annoying as stupid fucking euros who think everything the US does is shit all while consuming US pop culture and products.

Outside of Helsinki, in the Lapin Kulta swilling parts, how well would average Finns fare on random questions? I suspect they’d look just as stupid as these as who wants to watch a video of people getting the question right?

By the way, South Carolina is one of the poorest and worst educated states in the US…maybe you should trade it in for, say, Oregon.

Yah maybe I should re-type everything I have said before with links to previous sources. Or maybe you could just go back in the comments? The Finnish system works better and it’s not just an opinion. It would not be in use if it were just an opinion. You bloddy yanks just cant tolerate that some other country is doing something better than you. Ignorant and stupid.

“The religious fuckheads out in the Midwest are almost as annoying as stupid fucking euros who think everything the US does is shit all while consuming US pop culture and products.”

Or almost as annoying as stupid fucking americans who think everything the rest of the world does is shit all while consuming world culture and products made outside the usa?

“Outside of Helsinki, in the Lapin Kulta swilling parts, how well would average Finns fare on random questions? I suspect they’d look just as stupid as these as who wants to watch a video of people getting the question right? By the way, South Carolina is one of the poorest and worst educated states in the US…maybe you should trade it in for, say, Oregon.”

Maybe you should go and ask them those questions perhaps? It is very unlikely that you can find people who wouldn’t know:
- what is the United Kingdom
- what is the currency of United Kingdom
- how many sides are in a triangle
- a country name starting with the letter S
- the world map
- where does Kuopion kalakukko come from
- the religion of buddhist monks

In the vid where the canadian bloke was running through the states, he even made harvard professors and students look like complete fools. Some europeans have come back from the states with quite good stories. They have been asked if the country they come from (in europe) has electricity and cars yet.

Now I don’t mind if people are dumb, but if they try to rule the world and have no knowledge of it, it has to stop.

I couldn’t care less what kind of systems you have in the states, just don’t sell them here that’s all I care. The already is one USA why make more?

Miss SC – I don’t believe I was ‘selling’ anything nor, as I recall, did I at any moment make this into a dick slapping contest. If you want to pull a Finn and blather on about how much better Finland is in every way and how awful the US is in every way, you go right ahead but your similarities with religious fanatics out in flyover country are many. Perhaps you should mention the ‘abstinence’ method of STD deterrence, too.

And, again, in your hurry to make yourself feel better, you missed the point about those ‘jaywalking’ sorts of videos that only show stupid folks getting it wrong. I’m quite certain someone could find enough dumb people in Finland to make such a video. Besides, I believe Einstein claimed that brilliance is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration….not a winning round in Jeopardy!. It has always bothered me that the US doesn’t seem to value learning for the joy of being knowledgeable, but there are stupid people everywhere you go, Americans are simply less ashamed to show it.

Perhaps, too, you should be far more worried about your next door neighbour these days than the US when it comes world domination.

I might also mention that the US doesn’t really consume world culture as, if it did, it’d be a lot more aware of the world outside the US.

The Finnish system works better and it’s not just an opinion. It would not be in use if it were just an opinion. You bloddy yanks just cant tolerate that some other country is doing something better than you. Ignorant and stupid.
– Blah, blah, blah. Your system would not work in America. Some people would accept 10 years for murdering someone.
– Hey, family and friends should take some responsibility for these ‘troubled’ people and help get them some treatment. It is the wrong time to worry about them after they have gone about ruining lives. (It has been discussed here before that Americans have a bigger heart when it comes to those in distress.)
– Take the gentleman at the top of the page. He has given the gift of HIV to at least 3 women. This would probably not have happened had he been jailed the last time he was arrested for this. Sure, you can spend more money to educate the population, but as you say, it is the Americans who are ‘ignorant’, not the Finns. So what is the excuse for these 30+ women who foolishly exposed them to something that can kill them. What, no access to free condoms? Maybe it was their comfort in knowing that their great social welfare system will cure them.
– As hfb states, I can go to a doctor whenever I need to, the next day if need be and the same day if it is an emergency. Even without healthcare illegal aliens can walk into any non-profit hospital and receive care at no cost. Good luck attempting to do that in Finland.

This thread is getting too long and too time-consuming to read. Let me add the final two cents before moving on to the next thing:

The idea of merely locking people away has some merits. However, if you have ever watched HBO’s Oz, then you can see a glance of (highly dramatised) reality. Repeated criminals know how to ‘work’ with the prison system in order to get something (drugs, cigarette, conjugate visits…) They train the novice criminals inside the prison, form alliances, revenge on the rival gang. They rape and trade weaker prisoners inside the prison. For organised gang, the leader can commend people from inside the prison. Those who were sentenced to life, become ruthless. Some petty criminals become so used to it, they would rather not to live on the street.

Mere death sentence and confinement is not enough for justice.

The other missing part of the equation is the counseling, therapy, and treatment for the victims. It seems many of you here would call for harsher punishment for the criminals, but it’s equally important to take care of the victims. For example, if any woman (or man) is infected by HIV in this case, even a death sentence to the infector wouldn’t change the fact s/he needs to take ARV medicines and/or some therapy to carry on with their life. (By the way, anyone who suspects to contact HIV, should take emergency ARV treatment within 48 hours before the virus spreads too far.)

Modern justice system should not merely prevail our personal sense of justice, but actually do something to bring people’s life back to the path it once was (or should be).

Finally, education and prevention does not equate to a police state. Education can empower people with knowledge and the choices that come with it. A prevention plan offers people choices (condoms, free STD screening…) But ultimately, the choices are in the citizen’s hands. If, against all good judgments, a woman (or a man) decides to have sex without protection, s/he will get the consequence.

“About the sex crimes: During 2005 27% of the sex crimes were done by foreign people. That is quite a lot considering that only 2% of the residents are foreign. Immigrants (such as asylym seekers) are usually being deported.” (MSC)
” your comment about the foreigners insinuated that, indeed, if there weren’t a 2% population in Finland that 25% of the sex crimes wouldn’t exist without considering the possibility that they’re either more likely to get caught or more likely to see a conviction.”(hfb)
The 27% figure is for rape suspects (109 cases), the year is 2005 and the source is the Ministry of Justice (http://www.optula.om.fi/uploads/nul786y.pdf). The figure includes rapes only; ‘other sexual offences’ are given as a separate category (7.9% share, 93 cases).
It is possible that minorities (especially the visible ones) are more likely to get caught/accused/convicted, I’d be very surprised if Gypsies did not have a disproportionately high risk of being accused of shoplifting. But why does this particular crime have such a very high percentage of foreigners as suspects, when the foreigners’ overall share of all crime suspects is 5.5%? The nation with biggest share of the rape suspects was not Somalia, as one would assume if one thought this was all about extra pigment making you a more likely suspect, it was Estonia. The other very high figure that year was for robberies (20.8%, 324 cases) and we know pretty definitely that this was due to Somali guys robbing people in Helsinki, not some statistical fluke or structural racism or something. The figure for robberies has gone down since then, as most of the perpetrators got caught.
People are only responsible for their own actions, but some groups do seem to have more a-holes than others (the reasons for that are another matter). And ‘foreigner’ is too vague a category for any meaningful analysis of anything.

David you are wasting your time here. These people don’t understand any of that, even if they would, they would not accept these things you have mentioned. They have been raised to trust their leaders. We are not. The minority of them MAY question their leaders, as here the majority of people WILL question our leaders. Take France for instance, they start a riot even for the most ridiculous reasons. Mostly because the country is built on revolution, and because they have been raised not to trust their leaders.

Was it not that only ~50% of americans vote? What does that say to any of you?

“And, again, in your hurry to make yourself feel better, you missed the point about those ‘jaywalking’ sorts of videos that only show stupid folks getting it wrong.”

Yeah it’s called comedy. Ever heard of it? I am quite sure though that there is a connection between the reality of these videos and the fact that you have the dumbest leader in the history of mankind. Elected twice. Here, more reality for you, edited in favour of comedy of course:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFqzBiLBwM8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDIsOqq6yko

“Blah, blah, blah. Your system would not work in America.”

And how do you know if it has not been tested there? I remind you that all of this started because you people wanted to change the Finnish system, not because I wanted to change the american one.

“I can go to a doctor whenever I need to, the next day if need be and the same day if it is an emergency. Even without healthcare illegal aliens can walk into any non-profit hospital and receive care at no cost. Good luck attempting to do that in Finland.”

I don’t need any luck for that. We have a healthcare system that works just like you described. Its free for all citizens who want to be covered by the system. Funded with tax money. I don’t buy that crap about the illegal aliens receiving care at no cost. Maybe if it’s an emergency but not otherwise. Here it works the same, written in the constitution. Must help.

Well I think I have said enough. I may or may not come back to read your last words and that’s all from me. Have a nice life.

“Blah, blah, blah. Your system would not work in America.”
And how do you know if it has not been tested there?

– Most everything has been tried in the US to some degree. There are 50 mostly independent states and thousands of local police forces all trying different things to make life better.
– Take gun control. How is it that the places in the US with the most problems concerning gun crime are the very places where it is very difficult, if not impossible to own a gun.
– At least one US state has mandatory health insurance for all.

I don’t buy that crap about the illegal aliens receiving care at no cost. Maybe if it’s an emergency but not otherwise. Here it works the same, written in the constitution. Must help.
– Silly girl, if they don’t get free health care, then where are they getting the money for treatment?
– It is in the law that pregnant women and children under a certain age get free health care if they do not have private insurance. There is no test for legal residence, just if you meet the other requirements. And that is for regular treatment, not emergency care. When I was living in DC our child’s doctor’s office was full of immigrnats. They had two sign in sheets, one for those with insurance and those with none. The joke was, I had to pay a co-pay. They paid nothing. When I asked why, I was told that if they chrged them $10, they would not bring their children in.

David,
Nice post, Thanks.

LOL…you people take the HBO show “OZ” as a documentary? Oh jesus. *sigh* That’s the problem when you are young, näive, likely an idealistic college student who hasn’t a clue. I bet you believe everything you read on the internet, too. Comedy. I’m sure the Sopranos is just like how the mob is, too.

I haven’t read about KELA taking illegal residents or, say, students for medical care free of charge. In the US, there are primary trauma centers in each city, some of which are public hospitals, that take all comers covered by insurance or not. My mother used to treat about 1/3 of her patients free of charge and every Christmas she’d take in a carload full of clothes and food for many of her regulars as would her colleagues. Of course, this was a Catholic hospital but I’m sure that sort of thing happens in many health centres around the US. People have to take responsibility for themselves and for others.

But…this still doesn’t answer the question as to why sentences are so light for sex offenders.

Oh you’ve got to love this MSC fool. We are taught to trust our government and Finns not? Finns question their government? This is some of the great comedy (besides the 52 state thing) of the modern era. Watch an HBO series and take it for fact. Sex in the city, Weeds, Sopranos, all great examples of daily grind iAmerica I’m sure. This poor victim of the Finnish education system (the worlds best) truely believes all of this though. That is what scares me. Oh, that and the fact that she/he still hasn’t explained how improved sex education would have prevented this arse from doing what he did.

(BTW, how can we improve sex education in what is the worlds best system? I think it is a good example of the shortfalls in the Finnish system. Great sex education in theory but come Friday night and after a few shots the theory goes out the window and the knees part. Typical of the system where they are “taught” but rarely get to “learn.”)

“Sex in the city, Weeds, Sopranos, all great examples of daily grind iAmerica I’m sure.”
– Don’t forget STARGATE too! How many times has the US Air Forces saved this planet thank you ver much!
– Road Warrior. Isn’t that what the Australian outback is like too right?

#80 Yeah, kind of a cross between that and the world presented by the late Steve Irwin, corcodile hunter and his cousin Crocodile Dundee.

Actually, you’d be amazed how many people here in Finland have an idea Australia really is this strange country where we all live “in the outback.” Most of the people seem to know very little about Australia and our people and nearly all claim Sydney is the Capital. Snow? What snow? In Australia? Ha ha ha , good one……….

Yeah, that’s funny.

Sydney is great!

“Actually, you’d be amazed how many people here in Finland have an idea Australia really is this strange country where we all live “in the outback.” Most of the people seem to know very little about Australia and our people and nearly all claim Sydney is the Capital. Snow? What snow? In Australia? Ha ha ha , good one……….”

Now that is bullshit. Ask any finn about australia and they think of sydney and kangaroos. True. But most of them don’t know nothing about the outback. Most don’t know that june and july are winter months in australia. Some may even think aboriginal people throwing boomerangs. Some people may stereotype australia and australians as they are pictured in crocodile dundee and by steve irwin. But steve irwin is not even famous here. Most of the population has not seen or can’t remember anything about the movie crocodile dundee. What most finns think is the landscape seen in the australian F1 gp. F1 is very popular in finland. I have lived in finland all my life and i am very sure the most well known thing about australia is the gp.

Things i know about australia. Capital is canberra. Sydney is the largest city. Six states and atleast two territories. Used to be a part of the british empire. Is a continent. Has most of the most venomous species in the animal kingdom. The jellyfish kills more people than sharks and crocodiles. Sharks and crocodiles are not found everywhere. The dialects spoken in australia are very close to the ones spoken in england. Sometimes it is very hard to hear the difference. And sometimes they do get snow in some parts of Australia. It is a big continent and the weather may vary.

Why did you lie the finns think all australians live in the outback? If you have been living in finland a year or two you would known the F1 thing.

“The dialects spoken in australia are very close to the ones spoken in england. Sometimes it is very hard to hear the difference.”

LOL..Uh, say that to a Brit and watch the tea spew out their nose. D The dialects are not even close.

Btw – You missed Uluru.

“LOL..Uh, say that to a Brit and watch the tea spew out their nose”

It is difficult for me to hear the difference because english is not my first language. A friend of mine from the west midlands visited the usa was asked several times if he comes from australia. So it is not that easy for americans either. Maybe you don’t know how people speak in england? It is not just cockney they speak. I can hear the difference from few words but if the person doesn’t use those words it’s impossible for me. Heres one cool clip you can hear some dialects.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq9Iy1k9yRc

Actually you can hear the west midlands dialect a bit better from this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH_kOjsXakM
Does sound a lot like the mainstream australia to be honest. Spoken fast then no wonder even the americans have trouble hearing the difference.

#83- I’ve lived in Finland for over 14 years as an Australian and so my experience is based on rather firm grounds. Maybe you are one of the wiser ones knowing all that (ha ha) but to say most Finns think of Australia via F1 is a joke. The fact is F1 has now been in two cities in Australia and in neither case have you been able to see anything Australian. As for the “landscape” of Albert Park, it is a man made lake by the sea just outside of downtown Melbourne so if that id the averagr Finn’s idea of Australia then I rest my case. None the less Finns are generally ignorant of Australia and no we don’t sound English. That’s looking for a fight (in both countries)

BTW, “sometimes they get snow in some parts of Australia”, yeah, just like they get it in some parts of The USA. I always laugh when my Finnish friends ask if I’d like to ski with them. I ask “show me the slopes” and I’m still waiting for an answer.My downhill has suffered from living in Finland. Who’d have figured?

Hmm, I learnt something new. The Australian capital is Canberra. And there was me thinking it was Vienna all these years Just joking.

Punter, Sweden and Norway are no so far away. Much closer than a coast-to-coast Australian journey I am sure… there is some great down hill skiing in Norway. Definitely to be recommended. But, have your relatives managed to get you to find enjoyment in cross-country?

Incidentally, at least for us Swedish-speakers, our view of Australia is also overly based upon the goings on in the tv-programme Women’s Prison which for some reason used to have quite a cult following for those that had Sweden’s TV4. Not sure if it was ever sent on Finnish tv, I don’t remember having seen it there. Although don’t forget Lentävät lääkärit.

And just for us Finns, tell us what your still-Australia based friends/family think when they think of Finland? They must have some silly (but funny) stereotypes of Finland as much as we do of Oz?

Anonymous – I still carry a British passport as my father came from the Manchester area so…I know what British people sound like. I always used to get asked by Americans if I came from Boston as my accent was light enough not to be mistaken for Aussie, Kiwi or Brit which was always amusing since Bostonians sound nothing like the British, rather like people who have had their toungue removed and only half reattached.

With apologies to Punter, Aussies have a very distinct nasal-y twang. I used to be able to pick out most of the major British dialects as well, but these days it is a bit harder, as it is anywhere, since people move around so much more and are influenced by what they hear in the media.

As a rule of thumb, when in doubt, guess that the speaker is British as while both parties might be offended, the Brit might be more willing to punch you.

#87 It is no joke i assure you. Most finns see australia though the telly not brochures books or anything like that. We have one or two australian tv series now but they are just recently added. They always do show you the city and sights with the GP. So i am sure the image that most finns have when they think of australia is pretty much close to the truth. Except that most do not know june and july are winter months and that it might snow somewhere sometimes. You can’t blame finns not knowing anything about australia if you compare what australians generally know about finland. If they have even heard of us.

As you said we not been able to see anything australian from the GP. We once saw a kangaroo jumping across the track. What more do you need. Should the kangaroo wave an australian flag while jumping across the track next time? To be honest i don’t know what being “australian” means. Light me up bob.

When i said english and aussie dialects are very much alike i meant that aussie is much closer to english-english than american-english.

I can easily hear difference between steve irwin and james bond but as you know not all aussies speak like steve. When aussies speak fast it sounds very english to me. I dare to say it sounds very english to americans too. Seen some clips from youtube where australian series are thought to be british in the comments by americans. Just as my friend was thought to be australian while in usa and was just speaking brummie. I bet is even easier to get mixed up between east scotland and aussie.

I have also been told that the americans can hear a canadian from their speech and vice versa but i have never heard any difference between them myself. Have you?

#90-your knowledge has left my head spinning. BTW, I think the roo was at an Australian V8 SuperCar race, not the GP Yep, Albert Park, a great postcard of a country 22 times the sixe of Finland. (Typially A Finn knows “it’s big, maybe 5 times the size of Finland”)

JG, Australians have a limited knowledge of Finland although baic facts such as climate, location, capital, oh and we were at war against you are taught. I guess the difference is Finland is a drop on the world map “up north” and when we focus on Europe we tend to focus on the major countries and historically important nations. No offence but Finland is somewhat “dull.” Also the lands were migrant Australians have come from tend to get more attention than palces like Finland.
Australia on the other hand is a continent the size of Europe. Just as we study the continents of the world, you would expect a country with such a fine education system as Finland would do likewise and at least learn some basic facts about Australia.

BTW, the series was “Prisoner” or “Cell Block H” I think in the UK. It began in the late 70s and continued through to the mid 80s if I remember correctly. Never quite understood why it was so popular at home even. Then again, Neighbours and Home and Away have been going on for years around the world too…. I guess we just don’t have “Salkarit” in Australia

BTW, the series was “Prisoner” or “Cell Block H”
Aha ok, in Swedish it’s called Kvinnofängelset which means “The Women’s Prison”. It really did have a strange cult following.
…
I think that is quite understandable that Australians don’t concentrate on learning too much about Finland. But I suspect you remember with more vigour those things you did learn about us because you nowadays have a very strong connection with Finland. I am sure, for the reasons you state, for most Australians it goes in one ear and out the other not long after. As you rightly say, we are a small country of only just over 5 million, off the beaten track and not a big contributor to Australia’s populating. So, I quite understand that Finland would be dull to most Australians.

However, in much the same way and for very similar reasons, Finns don’t learn much about Australia. It’s far away, has a relatively small population and we focus more on the whole part of the world known as Oceania rather then centring on the just the continent of Australia when we do learn about that part of the world (to my memory – but we did study it I’m sure). And the exciting things about anyplace are those that are very different, and I suppose with Australia that means the wildlife. So, I suppose the first thing that comes to mind is kangaroos and deadly spiders. And in the mindset, one puts those into a sort of outback background. I guess that gives us the Australian stereotypes common amongst Finns and probably many others too.

#91
I am quite sure it was an F1 race. I have never seen a V8 supercar race. But what did i just remember. I have completely forgot another popular thing from australia. Rally australia. WRC is just as popular as F1 here. So i think most finns know australia from WRC alongside F1. Not from the crocodile hunter/dundee as you mentioned.

Dont blame the education. We study the basics of australia in school. It is just that people tend to forget things they are not interested in. I know most finns think australia also as dull. If not interested in nature or travelling then australia is one of the last places an avarage finn cares about.

I do care very much actually. I am interested in nature and travelling. For a person like me places like australia and new zealand are on top of the list.

Worth mentioning: saw a uk reality show where 2 families spent their holidays together. One from australia one from uk. Even the british were shocked to hear the aussie family had never been around australia in their life. They had always spent their holidays at the same place. What a waste of life. Shame on them!

“Great sex education in theory but come Friday night and after a few shots the theory goes out the window and the knees part.”

Is that your experience, Punty? It could just be the company you keep. Vakka kantensa valitsee, as they say.

#93- Again this is due to the fact that many people don’t have an idea as to fhe size of the country. Take Finland. There are a great deal of Finns that haven’t been to Lapland and even more that have never travelled beyond Rovaniemi (real Lapland). As for Åland Islands and northern Karelia and other “far away places”, many Finns have yet to visit such exotic places. Now for me, these are a few hours away by car.
Australia is a whole new ball game however. I remember regularly driving from Melbourne to Sydney to visit a colleague who was moved upto a base in Sydney just for the weekend. Leave Friday afternoon for 1000 km, party Saturday and return Sunday. No problems. As you’re a fan of F1, I remember being so happy when Adelaide got it in the 80s. Only 750 km from home! Now compare this to Cairns which is a 3500km road trip, Perth the same, Darwin 4000km and you start to see why not all Australians have seen their homeland. Almost like asking how many Finns have seen all of Europe? The answer????? NONE

“Personally, I am not sure that they can be rehabilitated. Same goes for the terrorists. They hated us before. Treating them nicer will not make them hate us less. They have been brainwashed to believe otherwise. Not only that, even if you think you cured them, how wise is it to let them back out into society?”

Thats the dumbest thing I’ve heard. They are so easily brainwashed because the country they are told to hate has killed members of their family or freinds. Look at how easily the US Government brainwashed its citizens into to hating 2 whole countries (Afgan and Iraq) because of events by a handful of extremists. At least the Afgans and Iraqs are hating the country who invaded them, whats americans excuse. So are you saying US citizens are evil and can’t be cured of their brainwashing as well? The US Government turned their citizens into hatemongers even more easily then Al Queda can. It’s so sad people can’t see the US government is acting no better then the terrorists.
Lets say China invaded the USA. Are you telling me US citizens wouldn’t fight back just as the Iraq’s and Afgans have. The USA invaded 2 countries. Thats a fact, the so called reasons mean nothing. Neither country declared war on the USA, neither invaded the USA and neither country attacked the USA, so it was not a counter attack. It was an invasion, pure and simple. Extremists attacked the towers, not any country.
Those countries supported the terrorists no more then the US supports and funds many terrorist groups around the world who are terrorists against countries the US don’t like. For pete’s sake, the US supported and funded the terrorists from Al Queda when they were fighting Iran. Supporting the terror of your own government just because its your own government is stupid. The very constitution of the US is based on the citizens to not let their government become corrupt, yet so many Americans now say its unpatriotic to not support the horror their government now inacts. To blindly support your government goes against EVERYTHING the founding fathers fought for. The whole reason for the “right to bear arms” was not to defend yourselves from the English, it was so the people could defend themselves against the government if the need ever arose. At the time of it’s writing, having armed citizens stopped the army and government from becoming too powerful. I love that their own government has brainwashed US citizens into beleiving it had anything to do with the English. The Army was made to defend the US from England, and the right to bear arms was so US citizens could defend themselves from their army in the event their Government ever tried to take total control.
Any American who supports the US invading Iraq or Afgan has been brainwashed just like the Al Queda recruits. To support US’s invassion is to support the killing of innocent people just because of the country they live in. How is that any different from a terrorist? Just because you sit in the comfort of your own home and send your army in instead of getting blood on your own hands makes you no less evil then those you crashed those planes into the towers.

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