Why do you insist on being a dumbass.
I doubt there is anyone in the rightwing who consider free education and healthcare bad things.

The problem is that the finnish red/green sector doesn’t occupy the same reality as the rest of us do. They have become a very dumb religion hellbent on trying to import as many muslim rapists here as they can while also attemtping to weed out any reasonable energy proposals and attempts at making work profitable.
And like all religions red/greens hate viciously everyone who isn’t wearing a che guevara shirt and saying “islam is a religion of peace” (or any other bullshit mantra they come up with).

And to your last utterly stupid (but tellingly american) argument.
Just fucking look at the kind of culture US freemarket churns out compared to european (more often than not state supported) productions.

The idea of the grants is that it makes artistry accessible to other people than the rich peoples stupid kids with nothing better to do than trying to be artists.

Philtard, dude, go out and get yourself laid. Sounds like you need that at least. As to your “I doubt there is anyone in the rightwing who consider free education and healthcare bad things”, get a grip. Since when is it free? Wake up, WE ALL PAY FOR IT. IT ISN’T FREE. Twit

I think it is not necessarily even right/left thing. Concerning grants, artists are probably about as jealous as researchers and scientists and you have to be the same “school” as the guy sitting in the committee deciding, who gets the money. Other line of division has been Helsinki vs. the rest of the country as the Juntti-Einaris have to end up like Mukka and Kalervo Palsa before their works have slightest chance being considered as art by the committee artie-farts.

It wouldn’t be surprising though, if they still have those red Lada driving cultural taistoites sitting in the committees and measuring applicants political suitability but as in physics, progress takes place retirement by retirement and funeral by funeral.

Yes, this 70s leftism is a real problem in Finnish art scene. However, I don’t believe in free market rewarding good artists. Art cannot be valued by the number of paintings you sell.

In the free market, an artists funding comes from their own talent and success.

Vincent Van Gogh sold one painting in his lifetime.

vimma was not too afriad to use his real name, he has NEVER used his real name, it’s what we call a marketing strategy. He tries to be JT Leroy or something.

Anyway I don’t understand what do these people mean with being rightwing? are they perus-suomalaiset?

Vincent Van Gogh sold one painting in his lifetime.

Didn’t he ever hear of the internet? You can let the whole world see your artwork!

Go to Kiasma and then you will realize that YOU TOO are an artist!

I wonder how much Government grant money went for the piece where the artist covered a table with about a ton of dough.

Not for anything, but taxpayer-funded art contributes to global warming!

Of course my opinion would be different if I too could bellie up to the free-money bar.

free healthcare and free education are not free. They take 60% of your income, and then say come get your free stuff.

Gee, only the left wing is so fooled.

It’s taxpayer funded health care and taxpayer funded education. The teachers and doctors are not volunteering their time.

Gee… but… but it is FREE

“free healthcare and free education are not free. They take 60% of your income, and then say come get your free stuff.” winter

You are obviously as uninformed as you are a donkey’s cocksucker. I make over the “average” income in Finland and my tax rate is still under 30 percent.

If you have so many Hummers and boats and saunas over there in Maryland, why, dear god, why do you care one way or another about Finland so much?

I am not saying it is cheap, but for the premium I pay in taxes I get health care, education for my kids and a pension when I grow old.

You, on the other hand, get GW Bush.

Who should anyone be surprise?. Censorship has long been considered a tool of social change by the Left. They never have really totally abandoned Stalinism.

~Becky

“Vincent Van Gogh sold one painting in his lifetime.”

I never realised that Van Gogh’s art was made possible by the welfare state.

“Art cannot be valued by the number of paintings you sell.”

well no. but i think the amount of money someone is willing to pay for an artwork gives a pretty good picture of how good art it is. the price of van goghs paintings and their artistic value seem to have at least some correlation.

the price of van goghs paintings and their artistic value seem to have at least some correlation.

It just took the Invisible Hand some time to valuate them. If he’d been a true believer in the Free Market, he’d abandoned that artsy fartsy stuff and gone back to a real job by his third painting.

but i think the amount of money someone is willing to pay for an artwork gives a pretty good picture of how good art it is.

Jeff Koons’ work must have pretty high artistic value, then.

In essence, how much someone is willing to pay for a work of art tells nothing of its artistic value and everything about how well it is marketed. Just as with everything else on the market.

Having read these comments, I feel pretty sad. Why are people so stubborn and/or stupid? While “the Right” have some rather disturbing principles (supporting Christianity, for example), the people on the Left are just… have they ever read anything? Thought about anything? Changed their mind about anything?

Now now, the left having been shown how their silly ideas do not work, must then control you, as they can do in the left wing art scene.

Just look at the results? They got what they wanted.

Lets all list some more disturbing “right” wing principles.

Well for one that “Take care on theyself one” or “Self Reliance” is disturbing.

I know the art scene here though and through. You get grants if you’re a friend of those who give the grants. I try to play the game as well as I can. And hide my political beliefs Yes, the Finnish art scene is 99% leftist. Well, they’ve created this system, so I use it. But I wouldn’t vote for it.

“Yes, the Finnish art scene is 99% leftist. Well, they’ve created this system, so I use it. But I wouldn’t vote for it.” Leo Mussolini

Use your artistic imagination to envision me playing the world’s saddest song on the world’s smallest violin.

You get grants if you’re a friend of those who give the grants.

Who is giving the grants?

In essence, how much someone is willing to pay for a work of art tells nothing of its artistic value and everything about how well it is marketed. Just as with everything else on the market.

Exactly.

“Go to Kiasma and then you will realize that YOU TOO are an artist!”

*snerk* Ain’t that the truth. Jesus christ on a pogo stick Kiasma is a shining beacon of all that is horrible in the art whore scene…especially in a country with 2 degrees of separation. Both the building and its contents are an eyesore. If only I were related to some Uudenmankatu new media whore scenester and had a set of finger paints I, too, could have something framed up on the walls of the shining steel beached whale of a building known as kiasma.

Money kills artists and their creativity. I get sad every time I discover some unknown artist and find a while later they are so successful that they’ve not done anything new or original in a few years. Popularity and money dictate that which the artist used to have the freedom to choose for their own amusement.

“Who is giving the grants?”

wow, in the USA a black woman, Oprah, is a Billionaire. NO Gov grants needed.

Get a clue, cut the government out, guys. The Gov puts you in poverty, and keeps you there.

The problem is not only grants in art. It is also grants in research. I have been approached a couple of times by some individuals who told me “I was in the committee that gave you that grant”. The tone and demeanor was unmistakeably sending a message “you owe me”. Tit-for-tat, good brother.

Who is giving the grants?

I wish I knew. I have a napkin here that I am dying to crumple in the name of art, but I’m lacking the funding in order to purchase the inspiration to do so. (I had met a friend at Helsinki University for lunch after visiting Kiasma the first time. She asked me how it was. My response was to crumple a napkin and declare that I am a Kiasma artist. This elicited an angry response from a woman in the next table.)

“In essence, how much someone is willing to pay for a work of art tells nothing of its artistic value and everything about how well it is marketed. Just as with everything else on the market.”

I agree. But being an artist is still just a job. I know many entrepreneurs who all have to market their services even if that’s not what they do best. They don’t complain or demand my tax money, they just do their job.

I’ve also done 3D modeling work myself and knew a lot of people in the digital arts community. Many of those people were pretty mediocre at what they did, but they still managed to earn a decent living because those skills were badly needed. I don’t think it’s unfair that the market works like this. And I REALLY don’t think giving grants based on the artists’ political opinion produces better art than a free market. As pointed out already, Kiasma is proof of this.

Dave the Defibrillator: “I make over the “average” income in Finland and my tax rate is still under 30 percent.”

Are you counting the enormous VAT rates and car taxes? And who would pay those rediculous consumer prices in Finland?

That “60% of your income” figure is pretty close, I’d say. But hey, don’t let me stop you from funding art, if you think it’s more important than improving your crappy healthcare and underfunded education system.

I guess everyone has their own priorities in life.

Let me just add, if you think funding art is so great, then just wait until the Right Wing gets enough political power over that sector. Then we’ll see how many of you still support government funding.

Sig Heil, my friends.

“Right Wing gets enough political power over that sector.”

so the left wing, is OK, the right wing asking for a return on investment is not?

Winter,

When are you going to figure out that the key reason for Oprah, Martha, etc. being billionaires is not the US or the Finnish government, but the instant access to the wallets of millions and millions of bored American housewives with nothing better to do than surf the shopping channel? On the other hand… who knows… if they all had had access to government provided world class education, maybe they would have something better to do, and maybe Oprah would be just a measly millionaire

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