Finland has highest quality of life in the world -Reader’s Digest
Yes, being born in Finland is like winning the lottery! Although I wonder if things privacy, purchasing power, conscription, immigration, xenophobia and racism are factors in this survey?
Nordic countries take the greatest care of their environment and their people, according to a ranking published on Thursday by the publication Reader’s Digest. Finland comes top of the 141-nation list, followed by Iceland, Norway and Sweden, and then Austria, Switzerland, Ireland and Australia.
At the bottom of the list is Ethiopia, preceded by Niger, Sierra Leone, Burkina Faso and Chad. The United States comes in 23rd, China 84th and India 104th.
The ranking combines environmental factors, such as air and water quality, respect for biodiversity and greenhouse-gas emissions, as well as social factors, such as gross domestic product, access to education, unemployment rate and life expectancy.
The statistical basis is the UN’s Human Development Index and the Environmental Sustainability Index drawn up by Yale and Columbia universities and the World Economic Forum.
Hat Tip to Anja H. for the link!
They forgot to count in kebaps, wood, supplies, hummers, german beer (shitty ones), locks, taxis, public transport, low salaries, day fines, public tax records, homogenity, lack of foreigners, illegal searches, lack of routine circumcision, low purchasing power, low wealth, R&D, genetic alcoholism, poop, piss etc.
Comment by Cunter — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
To answer your question, immigration is obviously not a factor when talking about being born in Finland.
Comment by hang10 — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
#1 And you ;9
Comment by Punter — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
Ironic, given the nature of the post, that you should misspell winning.;)
Comment by Jon Martin — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
PRIVACY, yeah… Grrrrrrr…
Shock-horror-panic! American “magazine” publishes incomes of rich people, thereby endangering their children, families, pets, security details, offshore accounting contingency plans, etc.
Rumor has it that said “magazine” got idea for exposing wealth of these poor rich people from arch anti-privacy campaigners in socialist cesspit Finland.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7006207.stm
http://www.forbes.com/2007/09/19/richest-americans-forbes-lists-richlist07-cx_mm_0920rich_land.html
CCTV surveillance film at eleven (great candid shots of Kristian reading the OECD Bulletin and typing FFT messages on the can and Winter being asphyxiated by paint-fumes in his sauna).
Comment by Echelon Brandö — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
you must hate it phil when these independent studies about how finland is a fine country to live in come out? you wont rest until we have immigration like in sweden, welfare like in the US and taxes and wages like in monace. and of course zero control over drugs or gambling, etc.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
they also forgot to take into account high alcohol prices, Alko monopolies, high used car prices, TV tax, poor customer service at K-rauta, lack of food variety at Prisma, shop closings on Sunday, Katsastus, smoking bans at bars, thai massage parlours and too many estonians
Comment by unlce sam — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
Reader’s Digest has been preaching us the superior American way of life since uncle Sam and Joe went together into a kissing booth and gave birth to brave new Europe. It made me laugh all through those gloomy Kekkoslovakian years. It and only it could give us hope. The magazine won the cold war almost single-handedly.
And now you tell me that they ranked this socialist excuse for a country first? This country that learned about LIBERTY just a few years back (through Reader’s Digest and Junior mostly) and now thinks that it could be anywhere near as good as other countries not to mention the USA which is and always will be the best anyways. Let me laugh! Haha. Hahhhahhahhaa … hahhahhahhhhaaahaahaaahha heh hahahah.
In fact Finland is full of dirt-poor racists who piss on liberty, and I think that it’s gone too far, somebody should tell the truth to Reader’s Digest!
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 5:41 pm
Reader’s Digest has been preaching us the superior American way of life since uncle Sam and Joe went together into a kissing booth and gave birth to brave new Europe. It made me laugh all through those gloomy Kekkoslovakian years. It and only it could give us hope. The magazine won the cold war almost single-handedly.
And now you tell me that they ranked this socialist excuse for a country first? This country that learned about LIBERTY just a few years back (through Reader’s Digest and Junior mostly) and now thinks that it could be anywhere near as good as other countries not to mention the USA which is and always will be the best anyways. Let me laugh! Haha. Hahhhahhahhaa … hahhahhahhhhaaahaahaaahha heh hahahah.
In fact Finland is full of dirt-poor racists who piss on liberty, and I think that it’s gone too far, somebody should tell the truth to Reader’s Digest!
Comment by tsuhna — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
To be fair Jon, ‘wining’ the lottery does rather sound like a Finnish thing to do
Comment by Rich — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
Yeah, as a frequent visitor to Finland, In Summer quality of life is wonderful almost magic, I love it! But no matter how you sugar coat it, the brutally cold, dark, nasty winters can really suck. ;-D
Comment by Rick — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 8:33 pm
How come access to public transportation is a factor in these studies but not access to private personal transportation?
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 8:35 pm
Anonymous - Because these sorts of surveys are aimed at the lowest common denomenator.
Comment by hfb — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
…winning, wining, whining,… Hey, I reckon us Finns could do just that: win, celebrate and then complain “why didn’t I win more?!”
Re: (#8) “the brutally cold, dark, nasty winters can really suck.”
Well, nasty for some perhaps, but I for instance visit my country of birth (Finland) only in Winter time as I don’t see much Winter in my current home country (Australia). When I’m asked why I prefer to live in Australia instead of Finland, my standard response is
- Two reasons: October and November.
I truly hate those cold, wet and dark months.
Comment by Jouni — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 9:24 pm
So what your saying, hfb, is that this survey proves that Finland is the best place to be if you are a filthy bum.
In that case I agree with the survey’s conclusions.
Comment by maaksalaatikko — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
Assuming that Finland gains a large number of points from the fact that we’ve got a lot of empty space here. Empty space means no people means no pollution. The wicked thing is that there’s noone to benefit from the quality. Therefore people might inhabit those areas (well they don’t in reality because there is lack of services, etc.), that would lead to having people around that would lead to pollution, and thus, to low points.
This leads to the main hypothesis: Where there is no life, the quality of life is the highest. Therefore, the inquiry is void.
Comment by Arto — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 9:59 pm
According to the UN, which is much more reliable, the best places to live are Norway, Iceland, Australia and Sweden. Finland is 13th.
Comment by Annonymous — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
@8: You’re so right! *tips hat*
Comment by aet75 — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 10:28 pm
hfb still sleeps with santa…
Comment by just me — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
If we want to make hfb’ing more popular my suggestion is, hmmm, höfpäys, hööpääminen: not being able to look at one’s kid without seeing a drunk Finnish madman pooping in public. (Not that I expect Phil to let this post get through…)
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Sep 21st, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
santa sleeps with someone?
Gee, crushed my deepest dreams…. must have more rum
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 12:48 am
What a Finn will do in heaven? Start fixing that BROKEN bridge to the HELL. Why? Because it is BROKEN!
Comment by tim73 — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 1:14 am
I’m getting the feeling that this blog and it’s driving people have a right answer and they don’t like when someone differs from it(even when it is UN, Yale or University of Columbia).
Really is it so hard to understand that for example US for most people is poverty stricken dead-end shithole, and Finland for most people is a clean, safe and pleasent country where you can freely use your potential because of free education and intelligent social atmosphere.
We might be a few hummers short thoug.
Comment by philtard — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 10:15 am
(Not that I expect Phil to let this post get through…)
Phil believes in freedom of speech. Why wouldn’t he let your post get trhough? Freedom of speech seems to be a foreign concept to many finns. It’s no wonder though as Finland doesn’t have true freedom of speech.
I was browsing through threads on two different forums a while back. The discussion was about the dutch pedophile party. The other forum was American, the other Finnish. The americans thought that the members of the pedophile party are sick bastards but at the same time they were willing to defend their freedom of speech and political freedom. The finns on the other hand wanted to see the party banned. The dutch government got called pedophiles for failing to ban the party. Anyone willing to defend the party’s right to existence also got called a pedophile, no matter how well he presented his case. The finns were just totally unable to grasp the basic democratic principles involved. But what can you expect from people grown up in a country where it’s perfectly normal to get prosecuted for publishing a picture of Muhammed on a website?
Comment by mh — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 11:29 am
Why wouldn’t he let your post get trhough?
You’d be surprised if only you knew, but you keep you lapsenusko by all means.
Anyway, this is a business to Phil (among other things). Why one earth would he let something so absurdly abstract like freedom of speech to hinder him from making money? Somebody or something is spoiling the right atmosphere? Fine, let’s ban him. (If all goes as usual, next Phil will tell you who I am… If the message gets through in the first place, that is.)
Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
Not that I expect Phil to let this post get through…
I’ve never censored comments, not once. (spambots are of course not included)
Comment by Phil — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
You’d be surprised if only you knew, but you keep you lapsenusko by all means.
Anyway, this is a business to Phil (among other things). Why one earth would he let something so absurdly abstract like freedom of speech to hinder him from making money? Somebody or something is spoiling the right atmosphere? Fine, let’s ban him. (If all goes as usual, next Phil will tell you who I am… If the message gets through in the first place, that is.)
What are you talking about? This isn’t a business, I lose serious money on this blog each month it runs. This blog is fun, it’s a hobby, and usually people lose money on hobbies, and that’s fine.
And I’ve never banned anyone from commenting, never.
If you make a comment and it doesn’t immediately appear, it got caught in my spam guard. I go through my spam once per day and approve all the false-positives.
And why would I tell people who you are, and how would I know who the hell you are in the first place!?
I think you’re confusing this blog with someone else’s, or you’re just trolling.
Comment by Phil — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
#1: “…lack of routine circumcision…”
And they also don’t routinely remove people’s eyelids. Both are good things.
#7 “lack of food variety at Prisma,”
So, go to City Market.
“…shop closings on Sunday…”
Ever gone to Germany and tried to go shopping between late afternoon Saturday and Monday morning?
“…Katsastus…”
And how is making sure that vehicles on the road are safe a bad thing?
“…smoking bans at bars…”
Purely positive.
“…thai massage parlours…”
If you don’t like them, don’t go.
“…and too many estonians…”
That’s a new one. Any problems caused by Estonians in Finland are certainly dwarfed by the aggravation caused by Finns in Estonia.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
#17 “According to the UN, which is much more reliable, the best places to live are Norway, Iceland, Australia and Sweden. Finland is 13th.”
These things invovle so many different kinds of factors that are extremely difficult to quantify.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
#1 (revisited) “…day fines…”
Only a problem if you’re a rich lawbreaker.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
That’s rubish… being a foreigner here in Finland..all i’m looking for is to come back to my country.
I guess this study is being “sponsored” by some kind of government agency or cartel fixing type company in order to attact a “vital” and “needed” immigration.
RIGHT that might not apply to foreigner… I guess it applies for fins …but i heard many fins telling me WTF you are doing here? no wonder why they all flee the country whenever they can to go on Holiday abroad or drink heavely if they don’t have the mean to travel.
Comment by ano — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
“The ranking combines environmental factors”,
“such as air”
-Air pollution content in Greater Helsinki Area now exceptionally high
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Air+pollution+content+in+Greater+Helsinki+Area+now+exceptionally+high/1135219692021
“and water quality”
Toxic blue-green algae often appears in the Gulf of Finland, more in lakes
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Less+blue-green+algae+in+sea+areas+more+in+lakes+/1135229738856
“as well as social factors”
Racist crime rarely leads to conviction in Finland
175 racist crimes in Helsinki, but only six convictions
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Racist+crime+rarely+leads+to+conviction+in+Finland/1135226835748
“such as gross domestic product”
Finland, without Nokia, is too low-tech: OECD
The Finnish mobile phone giant Nokia, for example, contributed 2.8 percent of Finland’s gross domestic product (GDP)
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/06/1096949551261.html
“unemployment rate”
The UN observed that many speakers had failed to take into account the fact that, that unemployment rates in Finland were still high,
http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/a8b57ae9ee61e98e80256537005b3dd5?Opendocument
Maybe the other countries were worse?? I rather prefer to live in continetant Europe than in Finland :
country like Spain, Greece, Portugal, France, Switzerland etc.. where the wealth is in people warm and openess and joy of life. Maybe in some States in the US we could have the same (Except Texas ;->)?
Comment by bingo — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 9:36 pm
forgot :
“greenhouse-gas emissions”
a trip to Oulu is cheaper by air than by train.
http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id70475.html
Comment by bingo — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 10:02 pm
I sleep with santa, wha?
“US for most people is poverty stricken dead-end shithole…” I suppose if it makes you feel better living in Finland to think of the US as such you go right ahead but it remains the land of opportunity. Life doesn’t owe you anything in the US, even if in Finland you think it does.
And Anonypundit - I have yet to see a single drunken pooping person around these parts and that even includes some of the less uptown parts of the city.
Comment by hfb — Sat, Sep 22nd, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
“it remains the land of opportunity”
It looks like dollar is crashing and US economy too. Good luck, you and your family is going to needed it. It is going to be hellish and real soon.
Comment by tim73 — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 12:21 am
Are you thinking about the Muslim immigrants who, according to the media and the Greens, weren’t accepted because they were Muslims when you talk about xenophobia and racism? I think that you could stop worrying. Finland has hopefully learnt the harsh lessons of the other European countries with somewhat too open doors and accepting immigration laws.
Comment by Mikael — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 12:29 am
#33: Indeed, there are ample opportunities for turning your family fortune millions into billions. There are also opportunities for getting out of the ghetto/trailer park, which are not so often realised.
Boring old Finland doesn’t even have ghettos or trailer parks to get out of. Where’s the fun in that?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 12:37 am
This must be somekind of joke. Guy comes from Baltimore, 15 times of Helsinki homicide rate and starts telling us how we should live our lifes. Then this polyanna:
“I have yet to see a single drunken pooping person around these parts and that even includes some of the less uptown parts of the city.”
Wow, hfb would have experienced big troubles in Norrebro in Copenhagen or red light district in Amsterdam. “Uptown parts”…this idiot chose to live our downtown Helsinki and now compares that to gated community.
Comment by tim73 — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 5:05 am
Reading this thread has almost sickened me.
Let me start by saying hello. I’m Julian, and American Expat living in Finland for nearly 13 years.
I left the USA after a 5 year stint in the Marines. I actually left USA simply wanting to find myself and see the world before settling down and making something of my life. I have never been a democrat or republican and have always believed in balance over political extremes.
What I found when I came to Finland, was a place where people are blatantly honest and unwilling to compromise on the topic of honestly. Finns are the straightest people on the planet. Small talk is less important, and silence is understood as an art form here.
Finns complain about the country because most of them don’t know anything better. Sure cars cost more, and we have to pay luxury taxes on cars and motorbikes, but actually, that is not so different than New England, which has a similar system.
What is different is young couples can actually work, save and finally afford to pay their own apartment or house, unlike the United States. Young people can afford to study while only working only part time and are still able to pay their way throughout their university or polytechnic studies.
We are a family with one child, and my wife and I. My wife works at the university hospital and and I am a software engineer for a commercial firm. We have a dog, two 8 year old but perfectly good cars, a motorcycle, new bicycles, a summer-home in the middle of Finland, and a 130 square meter home, on 1500 square meters of land, which we own. I could never have been able to afford this quality of life for my family in the United States.
The most important thing i have noticed about Finland and Scandinavia is the governments agenda. The government of Finland places a high priority on the individuals quality of life. This is contrary to current American Policy. American policy at the moment is to force its people to stretch themselves further and further into debt, without providing any good, practical, services for the people to fall back on. When a government does not provide the basic services for its people, the government becomes no use to its people.
When is the last time the Federal Government of the USA built a bridge, repaved a super highway, Helped offset the cost of University studies by offering 100% study grants for the best universities and polytechnics?
Sure you can have your Hummers and deny global warming. As an American I can say that Americans are either stupid, blind or have enough money not to care. I am happy I got out. In my career, I am happy I have had the chance to live and/or worked in 17 other European and African countries from Egypt to Iceland. I am happy that after 5 years of brainwashing, Finland allowed me to study at the University of Oulu for free. I a happy my Son can see why we live in Finland and begs me never to consider moving us back to the USA.
So if you want to judge Finland only by the amount of stuff one has acquired, then by all means Finland is only marginal. But if being able to afford a nice 150 square meter home, an average car, clean safe food at affordable prices, free health care and education are not important to you, you don’t deserve to have them anyway.
Thee are stupid people in Finland. Some rednecks, a few racists and the educated yet blind minority, just like any other country on the planet. However crime is relatively low, people are generally safe and the government does what it can to maintain a balanced level of immigrants coming into Finland, which is in sharp contract to the rest of Scandinavia which is being over run by refugees and immigrants searching for a better life. Although I am a black man, it has never been held against me. Being an American on the other hand has at times created challenges where people assumed that I was selfish and shallow like many Americans.
Finally, The thing I love the most about Finland is access to information. Finland doesn’t provide its citizens with 200 channels of government sponsored propaganda (also called “nightly news”). Finland provides its residents with only the facts about the news. The people themselves can formulate their own conclusions again in contrast to America, where the facts are omitted in order to provide you with the foredrawn conclusions.
I love America, I just know that I could never have the same quality of life without getting heavily in debt in the United States. Finland is not perfect, but it is a system set up to give you a fighting chance to succeed in life, or follow your dreams.
kind regards
Julian White
Oulu Finland
Comment by julian — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 5:09 am
“I love America, I just know that I could never have the same quality of life without getting heavily in debt in the United States.”
Is there a place in the western world where you can’t get in debt and have a normal life? as soaring housing price (which i would like to remind is on average lower than most european contry), unafordable car prices, relatevely low wages and tendancy to shut competition allowing prices to be inflated.
“Finally, The thing I love the most about Finland is access to information. Finland doesn’t provide its citizens with 200 channels of government sponsored propaganda (also called “nightly newsâ€Â).”
I rather prefer have mutliple choices and choose the one i feel is right. I notice here that the news is concentrated in the hand of few media and the news tend to be echoed from one channel to another. Luckily there is the internet infinite source of information and allows for disccusion and criticism: everybody is free to have his own opinion streching from one side to another.
“the government does what it can to maintain a balanced level of immigrants coming into Finland, which is in sharp contract to the rest of Scandinavia which is being over run by refugees and immigrants searching for a better life.”
I think you don’t get it. Finland is strugling to attract foreigners. It’s nothing to do with regulation or laws but depends on the countries wealth and accessibility. The question is who is gonna pay for the retires in 30 years or more? with a declining population, a gloomy birth rate. The state promise a welfare system for retiree that will not be given unless mass increase of foregners in the next decade or so. So Finland has no choice other than aligning itself to Sweden or UK.
“The most important thing i have noticed about Finland and Scandinavia is the governments agenda. The government of Finland places a high priority on the individuals quality of life. This is contrary to current American Policy”
Don’t you have a democracy? It looks like you are in an authoritarian
regime. If you like you current leaders, next time in the polls just do the right things. At least other there you have a credible opposition with different ideas. Pretty much anywhere in Europe opposition is almost inexistant, with sterile government playing alchemistry in regulation, taxation and future direction.
Comment by bingo — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 10:11 am
Thank you Julian for trying to get back some sense into this debate. A refreshing change from the whining of Phil, Kristian and the other clowns here.
Comment by Joulupukki — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 10:31 am
“130 square meter home”
iIn Finland , a “omakotitalo” will cost you from 500.000 Euro to 1.000.000 euro near the Capital area Helsinki and its suburb. which is about at the current rate of the dollar: 700.000 $ to 1.400.000 $.
You can quite easely double that depending on the size of the land and its location.
For normal citizen earning about 20-40.000 euro (28.000$ - 56.000) will expect to pay, in the city area (where most of the job are) about 3.000 to 4.000 euro square meter for a flat which will bring the price of old or new flat to about an average of (80m2) 240.000 to 320.000 Euro (336.000$ to 470.000$)… which unless you take debt that brings phenomenal stress and a future lower quality of life…
I agree its quite affordable..if you have the mean.
It’s true that in you start to go to remote location i.e Oulu suburb or central Finland then prices will drop but in which country this is not true?
Comment by buble — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 10:44 am
Julian:
Finnish honesty is mostly a myth. We have discussed this already over and over here.
Sure cars cost more, and we have to pay luxury taxes on cars and motorbikes, but actually, that is not so different than New England, which has a similar system.
You mean they too have a 100% tax on cars and 300% tax on gas?
free health care and education are not important to you,
While healthcare is free here it may cost you your life. The system is crap and strained for resources and the doctors are less educated compared to the US. Besides, “free” isn’t really free in Finland, you pay for it in high taxes and low purchasing power. It’s a lifelong debt.
Finally, The thing I love the most about Finland is access to information.
I for one love access to
other people’s tax information.
Comment by mh — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 11:52 am
City ranking’s
21. Helsinki, Finland
http://www.rd.com/content/best-places-to-live-green/1/
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
What happen to my post? is there a censure?
was has it been removed as it was in no way disregarding the blog policy??
I start to think that this blog only want to show what it ideology is which is very regretable and dangerous
Comment by bingo — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
Bingo,
Hold on..i got the same issue once but it was related to posting the article…just trying posting again…it’s called technical failure nothingto do with this blog that is “amazingly” open !
Comment by buzz — Sun, Sep 23rd, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
“Boring old Finland doesn’t even have ghettos or trailer parks to get out of. Where’s the fun in that?”
Just thousands of tiny ghetto apartments.
I think you have “balanced over extreme” flip flopped in your case.
Show me the car tax equivalent to Finland in New England. I think you’ve been away way to long.
Show me the percentage of home ownership in Finland as compared to the states. Since your a black man, show me the percentage for non-whites of home ownership. Finland should kill the US in this stat because they have much more apartment condos (usually cheaper) compared to single family homes than the US.
“people assumed that I was selfish and shallow like many Americans.”
And you say Finns are open minded and honest. And your “balanced over extreme”. I want to puke.
By the way, I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Oulu. I don’t think I met anyone who wasn’t racist. Ask any Oululainen,”Kaakaota comes from the breast of a neekeri.” Some of the remarks I’ve heard from upstanding citizens along those lines have been so disgusting I could puke. Very little respect for non white humanity.
Finnish honesty, Ha Ha. While I do think Finns are honest, they are not anymore honest than many other cultures. Silence or bluntness does not equate honesty.
“When is the last time the Federal Government of the USA built a bridge, repaved a super highway, Helped offset the cost of University studies by offering 100% study grants for the best universities and polytechnics?”
They actually do this all the time in combination with state governments. When my family and I were dirt poor, I had %100 of my school and healthcare paid for by the government. My wife still gets some of her school paid for even though our financial situation has changed considerably. She still gets assistance because she is a foriegner. I think the GI bill would have paid for your school Julien. Being that you are a veteran and all. Every soldier knows that so you are either not or veteran or else you are being intentionally misleading.
“The people themselves can formulate their own conclusions again in contrast to America, where the facts are omitted in order to provide you with the foredrawn conclusions.”
This is laughable. If anything there is to many facts here. Information overload. In Finland there is far to little.
“I a happy my Son can see why we live in Finland and begs me never to consider moving us back to the USA.”
Has you son ever lived in the USA? Sounds to me like he’s been brainwashed by his Dad. Kids will always tell there parents what they think their parents want to hear. I’d be curious as to what you would do if your son took an opposite position to you in this matter. My kids are growing up in the USA but they are being brainwashed to LIKE Finland and when they are old enough we will pay for them to go and live in Finland. I do have philosophical differences with the Finnish government, but Finland is my home away from home and I want my kids to be enriched by having the opportunity to live there. There is more than one way to skin a cat after all.
“What is different is young couples can actually work, save and finally afford to pay their own apartment or house, unlike the United States.”
If a young person works and saves in the US, there is no way they will NOT be able to buy an apartment or house. I’m 28. I bought my first house when I was 25. Most of my friends here in MN had already bought houses by the time I bought mine. Some as young as 19 or 20 years old. Many of them have no education past high school.
“Young people can afford to study while only working only part time and are still able to pay their way throughout their university or polytechnic studies.”
Sounds like the USA.
“We are a family with one child, and my wife and I. My wife works at the university hospital and and I am a software engineer for a commercial firm. We have a dog, two 8 year old but perfectly good cars, a motorcycle, new bicycles, a summer-home in the middle of Finland, and a 130 square meter home, on 1500 square meters of land, which we own. I could never have been able to afford this quality of life for my family in the United States.”
Sounds just like the lower middle class life in the US, except for the careers. My last house was in neighborhood like you describe. Except my neighbors were factory workers, mechanics, secretaries and the like. A software engineer and a RN (for example) would be living in a house twice as big with 2 new cars.
“When a government does not provide the basic services for its people, the government becomes no use to its people.”
The government provides basic services only to poor people in the US. I know because I used to be one of them. If you can afford the service yourself, the government won’t give it to you.
“the government does what it can to maintain a balanced level of immigrants coming into Finland, which is in sharp contract to the rest of Scandinavia which is being over run by refugees and immigrants searching for a better life.”
Sickening hypocrisy. Wanting to deny others what you claim was offered to you.
“Finland is not perfect, but it is a system set up to give you a fighting chance to succeed in life, or follow your dreams.”
If you define success as mediocrity and your dreams are to be “the most average you can be”. Then I agree.
“However crime is relatively low, people are generally safe”
On this we can agree.
Comment by maaksalaatikko — Mon, Sep 24th, 2007 @ 7:17 am
“Boring old Finland doesn’t even have ghettos or trailer parks to get out of. Where’s the fun in that?â€Â
Just thousands of tiny ghetto apartments.
You know, everyone in Finland is free to live in a trailer, just like folks do in more affluent nations. For some reason they choose not to. Must be the evil welfare-statist brainwashing.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Sep 24th, 2007 @ 7:53 pm
Are they free to live in a trailer? I doubt it. Even if they could, they wouldn’t be able to afford a car to drive to their trailer so they opt for a high rise on the bus line.
Secondly, trailer trash is a very small minority of our population as a whole. If your talking just percentages, I’d say the Finnish equivalent would be the drunk, urinating on the street corner, sleeping in the gutter, Finnish bum. If you asked the bum what he would prefer, the American trailer or the Finnish gutter? I think he’d go with the trailer.
Comment by maksalaatikko — Mon, Sep 24th, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
Secondly, trailer trash is a very small minority of our population as a whole.
But of course, those people don’t exist. That’s the common American approach to social problems. If you can afford to live in a gated community, it is easier to maintain the idea.
About 0.15% of Finns are homeless and half of them in the Helsinki area. In the US, the percentage is 1%. So, you’re suggesting that fewer people live in trailers?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Sep 24th, 2007 @ 11:03 pm
#
“Boring old Finland doesn’t even have ghettos or trailer parks to get out of. Where’s the fun in that?â€Â
Just thousands of tiny ghetto apartments.
I think you have “balanced over extreme†flip flopped in your case.
Show me the car tax equivalent to Finland in New England. I think you’ve been away way to long.
Julian
Perhaps you’re right, I have been away a long time and happily, I woke be forced to go back. I purchased a Kawasaki Gpz900 in Amherst Mass and was forced to pay a luxury tax. The idea seemed almost foreign to me. Punished for being able to afford something I needed.
Show me the percentage of home ownership in Finland as compared to the states. Since your a black man, show me the percentage for non-whites of home ownership. Finland should kill the US in this stat because they have much more apartment condos (usually cheaper) compared to single family homes than the US.
Julian
I cannot show you any stats. I’m a software engineer not an economist
“people assumed that I was selfish and shallow like many Americans.â€Â
And you say Finns are open minded and honest. And your “balanced over extremeâ€Â. I want to puke.
Julian
Americans are shallow and blind (stupid, uninformed. Pick one) for the most part, and the entire planet knows it. Americans still believe the United States is the best country on the planet, although evidence shows that might not actually be true. If you ask me “Where would you most likely be able to make the largest amount of money in the shortest amount of time, with little or nothing as starting capitol?”, I would certainly say the United States.
Julian
Oulainen is not apart of Oulu. It is actually small redneck village with nothing to offer its people. The young move away, the old are stuck there. However, I’m not saying there is no racism, I am saying the racism that exists is not as brutal as the crap I endured growing up in Whittier California.
By the way, I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Oulu. I don’t think I met anyone who wasn’t racist. Ask any Oululainen,â€ÂKaakaota comes from the breast of a neekeri.†Some of the remarks I’ve heard from upstanding citizens along those lines have been so disgusting I could puke. Very little respect for non white humanity.
Julian
Agreed.
However, we might also agree that when aFinn takes the time to say something, it will be worth (for the most part) listening to.
Finnish honesty, Ha Ha. While I do think Finns are honest, they are not anymore honest than many other cultures. Silence or bluntness does not equate honesty.
Julian
This is an outright lie.
The federal and state governments republican or democrat, have not invested heavily in the infrastructure of the United States since the early 70s. This is a fact. http://www.articlediscovery.com/blog/2007/08/04/american-infrastructure-rated-poor/
“When is the last time the Federal Government of the USA built a bridge, repaved a super highway, Helped offset the cost of University studies by offering 100% study grants for the best universities and polytechnics?â€Â
They actually do this all the time in combination with state governments. When my family and I were dirt poor, I had %100 of my school and health-care paid for by the government. My wife still gets some of her school paid for even though our financial situation has changed considerably. She still gets assistance because she is a foreigner.
Julian
I did benefit from the “GI Bill” during and for a short itme after, my enlistment period. The GI Bill is a great thing. So is ROTC, but the problem is not that there is not a program, the problem is not being able to afford the “BEST” schools and universities in the United States. Even with the GI Bill, I would never be allowed to go to MIT, even if I could pass the entrance exams. The GI Bill simply wouldn’t cover the costs. On the other hand, If I wanted to go to a nice community or state college or university, the student aide system would actually help one to do so. My point is quality of education. You get what you pay for in one way or another.
I think the GI bill would have paid for your school Julien. Being that you are a veteran and all. Every soldier knows that so you are either not or veteran or else you are being intentionally misleading.
Julian
This might be a matter of perspective.
I wont argue this point. However, try to understand I meant European wide, there are a variety of news sources which one can turn to. Not only YLE or MTV3. News organisations, whether state or commercial are plenty. This fact allows residents to validate the information given to them by their local news channels. In the United States, most news organisations are still reporting the Iraq war with the positive twist for the American viewers although we all know the war was useless and unjust.
“The people themselves can formulate their own conclusions again in contrast to America, where the facts are omitted in order to provide you with the fore-drawn conclusions.â€Â
This is laughable. If anything there is to many facts here. Information overload. In Finland there is far to little.
Actually, I have a question for you. If the United States is so perfect, why are you wasting your time on this website? Have you even been outside of the USA for more than a week?
The fact is my son gets far too much information from the States. He hears about the shooting and drugs, violence and so on. The even discuss these topics in School. Only someone who chooses not to see the truth about the United States can ignore all the bad things going on there during the last 8-9 years. I actually thought of taking my family back to the US (my son was born in Philadelphia) but after 911, I thought there is no way I would subject my family to that. my Finnish wife was verbally attacked, called a white whore, and insulted. Come on we all know about it “Finland, isn’t that in Russia?” She recalls going the motor vehicle department and not being bale to understand what the hell this ghetto trash state employee was saying because she spoke ghetto, not English and my wife couldn’t understand here. Certainly the worker could have tried to meet her half way. My son would certainly be attacked (especially after 911) by stupid people who think he is something else than American.
I’m lucky, I grew up in suburbia, with a big house, good parents and some opportunities. Therefore I can adapt if I need to and live anywhere. The States are just so unstable right now, I fear I wont ever see home again.
of course if one chooses to live behind the 6 foot wall while ignoring the truth about the States, then there is no point in arguing. I just want to point out that the USA is not some paradise. Neither is Finland, but at least I’m not being sent to Sweden to kill people in the name of Christianity and counter-terrorism.
I proudly wear an American flag on my leather and on my motorbike. However, I can still see the American way of life as being something which really is broken today. Is Finland perfect? Certainly not. But as I said. I just have a better quality of life here.
“I a happy my Son can see why we live in Finland and begs me never to consider moving us back to the USA.â€Â
Has you son ever lived in the USA? Sounds to me like he’s been brainwashed by his Dad. Kids will always tell there parents what they think their parents want to hear. I’d be curious as to what you would do if your son took an opposite position to you in this matter. My kids are growing up in the USA but they are being brainwashed to LIKE Finland and when they are old enough we will pay for them to go and live in Finland. I do have philosophical differences with the Finnish government, but Finland is my home away from home and I want my kids to be enriched by having the opportunity to live there. There is more than one way to skin a cat after all.
“What is different is young couples can actually work, save and finally afford to pay their own apartment or house, unlike the United States.â€Â
Julian
Who wants to live in MN?
Of course you were able to purchase a house, for the past 15 years to USA has been living on borrowed money. This is an economic fact.
If a young person works and saves in the US, there is no way they will NOT be able to buy an apartment or house. I’m 28. I bought my first house when I was 25. Most of my friends here in MN had already bought houses by the time I bought mine. Some as young as 19 or 20 years old. Many of them have no education past high school.
“Young people can afford to study while only working only part time and are still able to pay their way throughout their university or polytechnic studies.â€Â
Sounds like the USA.
“We are a family with one child, and my wife and I. My wife works at the university hospital and and I am a software engineer for a commercial firm. We have a dog, two 8 year old but perfectly good cars, a motorcycle, new bicycles, a summer-home in the middle of Finland, and a 130 square meter home, on 1500 square meters of land, which we own. I could never have been able to afford this quality of life for my family in the United States.â€Â
Sounds just like the lower middle class life in the US, except for the careers. My last house was in neighborhood like you describe. Except my neighbors were factory workers, mechanics, secretaries and the like. A software engineer and a RN (for example) would be living in a house twice as big with 2 new cars.
“When a government does not provide the basic services for its people, the government becomes no use to its people.â€Â
Julian
Basic services
Do you mean like Tanks, missiles, fighter planes, bullets, hummers, stealth bombers…
Again Finland is not perfect, but it is not unlawfully attacking other countries in the name of protecting the American way of life. There are many low income people in the USA live without health-care of any kind because they cant afford it. he government could provide some form of basic services (which work) if their focus was not on war and was more on providing basic services for the people starting with a high level education.
The government provides basic services only to poor people in the US. I know because I used to be one of them. If you can afford the service yourself, the government won’t give it to you.
“the government does what it can to maintain a balanced level of immigrants coming into Finland, which is in sharp contract to the rest of Scandinavia which is being over run by refugees and immigrants searching for a better life.â€Â
Sickening hypocrisy. Wanting to deny others what you claim was offered to you.
“Finland is not perfect, but it is a system set up to give you a fighting chance to succeed in life, or follow your dreams.â€Â
Julian
Why is it so difficult for you to believe there is a wonderful world here in Finland? I am not average. Sure I could certainly make more money int eh USA, but I would also have more costs to cover. Why cant you get that? i make about 55k€ m wife makes 37k€ we have a good life with that money. I could easily make double that in the USA, but then I don’t have to worry about my kids getting shot while walking to school here.
If you define success as mediocrity and your dreams are to be “the most average you can beâ€Â. Then I agree.
“However crime is relatively low, people are generally safeâ€Â
On this we can agree.
Comment by maaksalaatikko  Mon, Sep 24th, 2007 @ 7:17 am
#
Julian
There are ghettos in Finland, they are just hidden much better. Vuosaari in Helsinki. Toppila in Oulu. Amazingly, these places have the largest population of residents with north eastern African or Islamic backgrounds.
“Boring old Finland doesn’t even have ghettos or trailer parks to get out of. Where’s the fun in that?â€Â
Just thousands of tiny ghetto apartments.
Julian
I totally disagree.
Currently roughly 13% of the US population fall below the federal poverty threshold. There is however some controversy regarding the federal poverty line, arguing that it either understates or overstates the problem of poverty. The poverty rate in the United States is one of the highest among the post-industrialized developed world. It should be noted that poverty rates only provide a snap-shot of the percentage of persons who are currently poor. Poverty in the U.S. is cyclical in nature, with individuals rising above and falling below the poverty threshold from time to time; as a result, far more than 13% of the population fall below the poverty line at some point over a given period of years.
http://www.epinet.org/books/swa2004/news/swafacts_international.pdf
Secondly, trailer trash is a very small minority of our population as a whole. If your talking just percentages, I’d say the Finnish equivalent would be the drunk, urinating on the street corner, sleeping in the gutter, Finnish bum. If you asked the bum what he would prefer, the American trailer or the Finnish gutter? I think he’d go with the trailer.
Julian
I totally agree
If we don’t see the problem, it doesn’t exist.
Comment by maksalaatikko  Mon, Sep 24th, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
#
Secondly, trailer trash is a very small minority of our population as a whole.
But of course, those people don’t exist. That’s the common American approach to social problems. If you can afford to live in a gated community, it is easier to maintain the idea.
About 0.15% of Finns are homeless and half of them in the Helsinki area. In the US, the percentage is 1%. So, you’re suggesting that fewer people live in trailers?
You are welcome to keep believing the USA is the greatest country on the planet. If you are happy there, then you deserve to be there. I on the other hand prefer to take my less than perfect Finnish lifestyle over getting shot (criminals/Police whats the difference in USA?) or accosted in some way. There are great places to Live in the USA even today. The upper western states for example.
Finally, 2 years ago I had a very bad accident on my motorcycle while visiting Germany. German authorities would like to have cut off my left leg below the knee. This was for no other reasont than I had typical health insurance from Finland. I called kela and explained the situation and not only did they authorise a “Privat” level of healthcare service from the German authorities to pay for my injuries, they paid for all 6 surgeries on my leg and provided me with a private room. The Germans wanted to cut off my leg because it was the cheapest way to save my life. Kela’s position was I was too young to have my leg cut off and it should be saved if it can. Well it was saved, and as soon as I was able to travel, they brought me back to Finland, and continued my care in Oulu. So don’t tell me that the government doesn’t work for the people. I am not even a Finn. I am still an American but I have lived in Finland long enough that they consider me a permanent resident. The only thing missing is the passport.
Finland went further for me than my own country which could care less if the Germans would have cut off my leg or not. Finland invested in my future and my leg, and I can happliy tell you I still have ten gingers and ten toys.
My loyalty is to Finland, as no other country has given me so much honour and respect as it has. Perhaps its time to sell my American passport on Ebay.
Julian
Comment by julian — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 12:54 am
I meant ten fingers and ten toes.
Not enough sleep
Julian
Comment by julian — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 7:38 am
#50: greates post ever on this site, julian!
iastn it wonderful that both the us and finland are such countries that people like julian can choose to live here and people like hfb (or people with values like hfb’s) can go back to the us after seeing people drunk on the street and after not been able to learn the language? the only problem is phil who seems to be staying here and hating it every day more and more.
the one thing phil doesnt seem to get, it that finns CHOOSE the welfare state, adn we CHOOSE not to have unlimited immigration and we CHOOSE to have open tax records and legal berry picking. you can whine all you want phil, put this is how we have CHOSEN it to be and hopefully will in the future also. despite this tired blog.
regards,
first member of the julian fan club
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 9:28 am
#52 Chill, Mr A-No-Knee-Mouse. It’s a blog. It’s supposed to be full of ideological shit-warmed-up. Most of us like it for that, it’s entertainment for heaven’s sakes, and most recognise that the most histrionic voices on here are doing a wonderful job of recruiting new members to the Welfare State fanclub. Gee, I bet those five people who sought asylum only did so because they read this blog. And when Phil gets hold of ‘em and runs the big podcast interview, the trickle will turn into a flood.
Comment by Echelon Brandö — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
This may be a stereotype, but julian’s comment is one of the longest on FFT in recent memory. (By stereotype, I mean the ultra-conversational American, of course.)
My silly joke aside, every country has a silver lining, so it’s natural that some American guy could come to love Finland so much. But I find it fascinating when maaksalaatikko (presumably Finnish) has to trash the idea that Finland might be actually good in someone else’s eyes and personal experience. The hostility in the tone seems to suggest that too.
Is it coincidental that Finns on this forum enjoy self-loathing? Trying hard to be the best is applaudable, but trying too hard is good for no one.
Comment by David — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
@5: the amount of wealth the world’s richest people is calculated by the value of what they own, so it’s no secret. Bill Gates owns Microsoft, so Bill gates has such and such amount of wealth, based on the value of Microsoft. Notice how they don’t publish Bill’s income. That is kept secret. The laws of the US protect that information. All the EU countries have similar laws, except Finland. The government of the United States didn’t sell the information to be published in a magazine, as what happens in Finland.
Comment by Sirkuspelle — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
Julian, nice to know that things have turned out well for you. As a household, I think that you’ve made it into the the top 10% if not higher income-wise on a national level, which is not bad at all at your latitudes, especially considering that Oulu still has very affordable housing. You’re clearly getting a good deal from Finland if you can weather the kaamos (Helsinki is north enough for me).
Too bad you had to quote your income here. Sirkuspelle will go completely ballistic. This is PRIVATE INFORMATION, don’t you get it?
maksalaatikko:
As for cramped ghetto living, it is mostly an issue in the Helsinki area and mostly if you refuse to settle for a less posh area and/or absolutely have to buy at these inflated prices. I don’t know what kind of a McMansion you consider adequate, but I find roughly 30 sqm per person (including children) sufficient. As we don’t have children, we have a roughly 60 sqm penthouse apartment with a very nice view over southern Helsinki and an almost unobstructed sea view (in two directions, mind you) which I’m able to rent alone for a fraction of my income. I’m not complaining very much about ghetto living. I wonder if I’d be able to afford the same standard of living in affluent America.
Oh well, a Hummer next to my trailer would fix everything. I wouldn’t even mind getting shot for that.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 7:34 pm
“Kela’s position was I was too young to have my leg cut off and it should be saved if it can.”
So if you’d have been older KELA’s position would have been to cut your leg off. Sounds great.
I’m an American. My wife is Finnish. I lived in Finland for 2 years. I’m fine with people liking Finland, I love Finland myself. I’m not okay with blatant misrepresentation and mistruths(lies) by Americans of the US. When Finns totally misrepresent the US it can be chalked up to experiencing our country through the internet, and through the eyes of envy.
By the way Julian, walk around Oulu and ask people where Minnesota, Wisconsin or Iowa is? States with similar populations to Finland. Most people will have no clue and saying it’s a state in the US does not count as an answer.
In Finland we have forced conscription and the military USA doesn’t even have that. Show me a tit for that tat.
“But of course, those people don’t exist. That’s the common American approach to social problems. If you can afford to live in a gated community, it is easier to maintain the idea.”
The gated community population is even much smaller than the trailer trash population and yet the way most people here post you’d think they were a combined majority. From an American, that kind of misrepresentation is inexcusable.
I don’t trash the idea Finland is good in someone elses eyes, it’s great in MY eyes. Read: “home away from home” in post above. I do the trash the idea of comparing two countries using falsehoods.
“I on the other hand prefer to take my less than perfect Finnish lifestyle over getting shot (criminals/Police whats the difference in USA?) or accosted in some way. There are great places to Live in the USA even today. The upper western states for example.”
I grew up in a major metropolitian area twice the size of Helsinki. My parents have never locked their doors at night. They live in lower middle class neighborhood. They’ve never had a problem. Show me that in Helsinki or Oulu for that matter…My wife on the other hand grew up in a tiny town in northern Finland. Her parents didn’t lock the doors and they had countless drunken sots break into their house and steel stuff, pass out, and had even one who attempted to molest my wife’s sister.
Julian I’m starting to doubt that you are an American by some of your remarks. I the “upper Westerns states for one” comment smells a rat. Sounds like a remark coming from an internet Finn who maybe took a 1 month vacation to the US.
Comment by maksalaatikko — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
#55
Oh dear! Then I guess Fortune is going to be in humungous dollops of trouble for publishing the compensation of all these CEOS like this, isn’t it? Perhaps you would like to join in the class action anti-disclosure suit along with Ray Irani,
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/12/lead_07ceos_Ray-R-Irani_WJ7X.html
or the great Richard A. Manoogian
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/12/lead_07ceos_Richard-A-Manoogian_EZVQ.html
Mr. Manoogian’s annual salary an emoluments of approximately $11 million does not seem quite in keeping with his contribution to the company’S (MASCO) well-being, as he comes bottom of the list for the second year running. But of course you aren’t allowed to know this, as it’s …shhhh.. secret.
So secret that Fortune had to hide it away here:
http://www.forbes.com/2007/05/03/ceo-executive-compensation-lead-07ceo-cx_sd_0503ceocompensationintro.html
Comment by Echelon Brandö — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
“Americans are shallow and blind (stupid, uninformed. Pick one) for the most part, and the entire planet knows it. Americans still believe the United States is the best country on the planet, although evidence shows that might not actually be true.”
Finns think Finland is the best country on the plant just like Americans think the US is best. Finland is a tiny country with a small population so they are not under the international microscope.. As far as stupidity goes, in Finland you’ve got just as much, if not more stupid people. But the Finns are not the ones who will admit it or if they did admit it they wouldn’t spread it to the rest of the world. Plus nobody else cares about stupid people in Finland… so it’s not an issue.
“In the United States, most news organisations are still reporting the Iraq war with the positive twist for the American viewers”
AHaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaa!!!
Very Funny. You have been gone for a looooooooong time.
Comment by maksalaatikko — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
The gated community population is even much smaller than the trailer trash population and yet the way most people here post you’d think they were a combined majority.
Nice straw man. So, as you compared trailer park trash to homeless Finns, which group is a larger percentage of the population? Are there more or less than 0.15% of Americans (appx. 450,000 people) living in trailers?
As for gated communities, they are, of course, for a very select minority, as they represent an ideal form of accommodation to Americans (see #49) and as a consequence demand always exceeds supply. I, OTOH, completely abhor the idea and wouldn’t live in one if they paid me. Again, it has to be the evil welfare-statist brainwashing.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
#55: Speical tip of the hat to salary.com:
A special thanks to Salary.com’s CompAnalyst Executive, which provided us with compensation data on our 500 survey companies.
Better include THEM in the lawsuit, too.
They are here:
http://www.salary.com/enterprise/layoutscripts/entl_services.asp?tab=ent&cat=cat002&ser=ser006&part=par020
Comment by Echelon Brandö — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
“Ask any Oululainen,â€ÂKaakaota comes from the breast of a neekeri.â€Â
Oh well, they will also tell you that those small blue lights leading to the runway at airport are policeman plants growing up. That’s just world according to residents of ‘Paska Kaupunni’.
If Julian is the same Julian, that happens to be a member in the same club as I, I can testify that he is most certainly not an ‘internet Finn’.
Comment by Antti rn — Tue, Sep 25th, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
Julian I’m starting to doubt that you are an American by some of your remarks. I the “upper Westerns states for one†comment smells a rat. Sounds like a remark coming from an internet Finn who maybe took a 1 month vacation to the US.
Comment by maksalaatikko
I am most certainly not an internet Finn
But my English is lacking these days simply because I don’t get to speak English to fluent English speakers that often. The only places I get to speak English are the Ham radio club, and at work. But you wont believe that anyway.
You could just google me “Julian White Oulu Finland”, or “OH8GEJ”, or the Lounge Lovers.
Or just visit one of my websites. http://www.oh8gej.org http://www.myspace.com/theloungelovers http://picasaweb.google.com/oh8gej
http://www.oh8gej.org/aprs
Enjoy!
Anyway, thanks for the nice comments everyone. I have really ocme to appreciate the life I have in Finland. I really do have other countries to compare it to, having lived in Switzerland, Germany, Egypt for 1-3 years. Kaamos is not a problem for me generally, but when it does become a problem, there are pills for that.
I don’t care about anynimity. I’m a big black guy on a big black motorcycle in Oulu. Everyone already knows me and my dog Uno.
Ok guys, its been fun.
I hope everyone loves where they live and appreciates what they have, no matter where they live.
and yes, to be honest. When the DOD started offering me 50k$ reenlistment bonus. I never went back to the States, so it has been a long time.
Comment by julian — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 1:19 am
“As for gated communities, they are, of course, for a very select minority, as they represent an ideal form of accommodation to Americans (see #49) and as a consequence demand always exceeds supply. I, OTOH, completely abhor the idea and wouldn’t live in one if they paid me. Again, it has to be the evil welfare-statist brainwashing.”
Demand exceeds supply. Not so sure about that. Take the Twin Cities for example: 3 million people, one gated community called Bearpath. While the houses and townhomes in there are expensive, there are countless other NON GATED neighborhoods that are much more expensive and have more desirable addresses. Like you, most Americans abhor the idea of LIVING in a gated community, but they don’t really care if OTHER people want to live in a gated community. Unlike Finns who abhor the idea of living in a gated community themselves but also don’t want ANYONE ELSE to live in a gated community(jealousy). Because if everyone is not the same, something must be wrong (jealousy).
The other %97 of us Americans who don’t live in a trailer trash park (different than a trailer park) or a gated community have quite comfortable pleasant lives. No gunshots to heard EVER, no drunks cajoling us in the streets, we each have our own car to go where ever we want whenever we want(some exceptions to this), low taxes, affordable education, oppurtunity for advancement, high paying jobs available for those who want to get the training for them, the list goes on. Yes we have problems, but no more or less than Finland. We do have different problems. One more thing, we have much more disposable income across all economic strata (this is the source of many of our cultural problems).
Julian
Your English and spelling are fine. You present yourself and your positions quite well. Spelling is much less important than the message(I’m horrible with spelling myself and rarely reread messages for mistakes). I do question you when you write the Northwest of the US is still a good place to live. That is a totally Internet Finn comment. The Northwest is a large area for one and secondly it’s no different in regards to living conditions than any other part of the US. Some corner of the internet may tell you that that is the case, but experience (and common sense) would tell one other wise.
Comment by maksalaatikko — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 5:19 am
maksalaatikko said:
One more thing, we have much more disposable income across all economic strata (this is the source of many of our cultural problems).
Julian
Well your last replies have been much more reasonable than your first. This comment really got me though. The reason most Americans have so much disposable income is because they are living on credit cards and borrowed monies. Read the article entitled “Americans living beyond their means”
The original URL is below, but I placed a pdf on my site http://www.oh8gej.org/america/american_marketwatch.pdf
original url
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/proof-americans-living-beyond-means/story.aspx?guid=%7B66122EA4-B773-46D0-9BFC-CC94968EEE77%7D
Seriously maksalaatikko.
The thing that gets me is most Americans really don’t understand that the country, economy, infrastructure is falling apart. We as Americans have so over extended our country by supporting other countries, building the war machine, and financing the American democratic agenda, that we have forgotten to take care of ourselves and our home land. 13 million illegal aliens, with 80% of all Americans in serious debt. Why aren’t you willing to see it?
Houses are selling because the bottom fell out of the housing market. Banks give loans to generate business, not because you can afford the loan My friend, the bubble is about to burst and nobody sees it coming.
Antti rn said: If Julian is the same Julian, that happens to be a member in the same club as I, I can testify that he is most certainly not an ‘internet Finn’.
Which club Antti? The one with the secret hand shake which will ultimately take over the world, or the other one?
Anyway, thanks for stepping up for me.
have a good day everyone.
julian
Comment by julian — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 8:24 am
Perhaps American style of democracy would be a better phrase than American democratic agenda!?
Comment by julian — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 8:26 am
“The one with the secret hand shake, which will ultimately take over the world or the other one?”
Must be the other one or perhaps Oulun Teekkarien Radiokerho has managed to hide their plans for world dominance really well…
Comment by Antti rn — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 8:49 am
Oulun Teekkarien Radiokerho shall not be denied its prize
So you see, Im a real American
ciao guys
Julian
Comment by julian — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 3:18 pm
New world bank rankings on Ease of Doing Business
http://www.doingbusiness.org/economyrankings/?regionid=5
Finland @ 11 of OECD, not too bad a place for business.
Comment by mog — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
The other %97 of us Americans who don’t live in a trailer trash park (different than a trailer park) or a gated community have quite comfortable pleasant lives.
Really? If we don’t count the 1% that are homeless and the other 1% in prison, this would mean that only 1% of Americans live in trailer parks and gated communities combined. Somehow I feel this is not the case.
By the way, don’t trailer parks essentially count as gated communities? They try to keep everyone with a full set of teeth out.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 8:35 pm
1 Out Of 32 Americans is Under Correctional Supervision
While 1 out of every 142 Americans is now actually in prison, 1 out of every 32 of Americans are either in prison or on parole from prison, according to yet another report on Americans behaving badly from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
This means that 6.7 million adult men and women — about 3.1 percent of the total U.S. adult population — are now very non-voluntary members of America’s “correctional community.”
read more
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aainjail.htm
Comment by julian — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
That means there are more people in prison in the United States, than there are people who live in either FInland or Sweden individually.
Sounds like a great place to live.
Comment by julian — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
This means that 6.7 million adult men and women  about 3.1 percent of the total U.S. adult population  are now very non-voluntary members of America’s “correctional community.â€Â
Yeah yeah but those on parole have so much more disposable income! They can just work two hours a week at Wal-Mart and earn more than the average Finn earns in a lifetime.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 10:27 pm
#56- Ah Frankie, you always crack me up. 30 sq m per person. I take it you don’t own a cat either or at least you don’t swing it inside? Then you go on to talk about your quaint little box and it’s “sea views in 2 directions mind you” bit just to show us how rich and successful you really are. You live in dreamworld mate. A twat of the highest form. 60 sq m for 2 and you try to pass it off as successful. Where do you hang your clothes or are the walk in robes on top of all that space ;)? Now that’s what I call living.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 10:53 pm
#74: Being a retard, you rather predictably missed the point. Some like their gingerbread McMansion with the inflasion swimming pule in the middle of the woods, others like something else.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Sep 26th, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
Meow…. THUMP!!
Are you swinging that cat again? To think at 176 sq m we have outgrown our house since the second child came along. Well at least we have 1600 sq m of land for the oldest to play in meaning he’s not forced inside all day so we’ll manage here until next spring.
Enjoy the view.
Comment by Punter — Thu, Sep 27th, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
Are you swinging that cat again?
No, cruelty to animals isn’t really my thing. Speaking of which, maybe you’d have more room if you moved the sheep to their own shack?
Enjoy the view.
I most certainly will. Enjoy selling your Älvsbyhus.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Sep 27th, 2007 @ 9:11 pm
nah, it’s not one of them. They’re cheap and tacky (and awfully small too) Ours is an established (1948) family home fully renovated firstly in 1988 and updated between 2002-2004. Lovely big trees and all.
As for moving back down under we are actually looking into at the moment. Did you know Australia has the worlds largest new homes (av sq m per person) in the world. Heck, your 60 sq m isn’t even a decent garage.
Comment by Punter — Thu, Sep 27th, 2007 @ 9:30 pm
DO NOT trust what Readers Digest says about almost any subject they print in their puny,sappy,multi-culti,politically correct KUMBAYA equivalent of a third grade scholastic reader..
Comment by infinndel — Sun, Sep 30th, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
julian
You are just a dem anti war loser.i am an immigrant living in the USA,have travelled the world and there is no better country with opportunity for any person to make good a life never offered by finland or any other country.When you left I took your place and man,life is good.I live in a 5,000square foot house on 20 acres with my Great danes and love life.This is the greatest country in the universe,for people who want to live better and strive for it!!!
Comment by Ian — Sun, Sep 30th, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
Well Ian, for your information, I survived the first Gulf War as a proud Marine serving a proud country, so you don’t know what the hell you are talking about (typical loud mouth dumb-ass), you fit perfectly in the United States as the blind and stupid are the majority. If you love the country so much, then why don’t you enlist in the Marines and serve the country you believe is so righteous? Ask not what you country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.
In 1986 I graduated from MCRD San Diego platoon 1049. I was a proud Marine and patriot. I served in many places around the globe and I am grateful of the opportunity and experiences. I am a far better person professionally, socially and culturally because of my proud Marine Corps heritage. But all that comes at a price.
Try visiting the wife and children of your best friend who was killed by coalition fire, and telling them his last words. Try sleeping at night with the thought of his innards spilling out into your hands while desperately trying to hold them in. Try living with yourself knowing that the great army we thought so fearsome, was as much a match as a game of Halo on Xbox, not ever having had a chance to win the ground war or anything else, they were nothing more than cannon fodder.
You reap the benefits of my labor Ian. You have not earned the right to any of the few benefits still remaining in North American culture and Society. You Ian are merely a leech and a coward looking for a free ride. You speak great things about the country to seemingly love so much. Yet you give nothing back to pot which you are so eager to take from. Ian, yes, you fit perfectly in today’s America.
I proudly served my country so that I would earn enough funds to complete University. I was lucky enough to live through it all and rebuild my life afterwards. I am still an American and proud of the country which gave me live, and freedom by its predefined standards. But you Ian, you have no right to judge me.
Comment by julian — Sun, Sep 30th, 2007 @ 11:25 pm
I can’t believe you have gotten me so angry Ian, but I must continue.
1. Do you know, if the Russians came across the bolder tomorrow, I would start killing as many of them as I could before I fall. I do this not because I hate Russians (I love them) but I love Finland for giving me a LIFE, FREEDOM, and the OPPORTUNITY to thrive in my community. Sure it was hard work, but what you put in, you are able to get out. If you are so selfish that you don’t want to put something back into the hand which has given you so much. You don’t deserve any of it.
2. I don’t complain about paying high taxes in Finland because in Germany I paid 52% of my salary and then I still had to pay medical insurance, East German reunification tax, and a variety of other things. In Finland I pay 31%, and that just about covers everything. Family gets the benefits of paying into the system with very high level education and at least some average level medical benefits. What the state doesn’t provide in basic medical benefits, my employer provides with their supplemental medical benefit program at know additional cost to me.
3. If a car tax is necessary so that I don’t have to pay outrageous car insurance, toll roads or (as in the USA), be punished because I am too young, too old, single or made mistakes, then so be it. Don’t like it, but the fact is, “I still have more liquidity (not credit) then the average American in the same field and range of incomeâ€Â.
4. I will not be added to a terrorist watch list because I am too far left or too far right as in the United States. And I won’t have homeland security knocking on my neighbor’s doors asking questions because I happen to have spent 2000, in Egypt on a project.
Ian I have paid for American democracy two-fold and I still don’t like the taste it leaves in my mouth. Why don’t you just admit to everyone that you are just too far in debt with your big house and your big dogs, and your big cars and your big mortgage, to leave the USA for a safer, more family friendly country? Why don’t you tell the people here how in debt you are for living the American dream? Why don’t you tell us what country to cowardly ran away from to live the American Dream?
Comment by julian — Sun, Sep 30th, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
Ian:
I live in a 5,000square foot house on 20 acres with my Great danes and love life.
Great danes and love life? Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more…
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Oct 1st, 2007 @ 12:15 am
#79 (innfinndel) Are you suggesting that the Reader’s Digest has a vested interest in making Finland (of all places) look better than it really is?
I wouldn’t know myself, as I stopped reading it back when it was still going on and on about how the United States must under no circumstances let up in its sacred commitment to the Vietnam quagmire.
#80 (Ian) “You are just a dem anti war loser.”
What’s with the name-calling? How does opposition to war make a person a loser? Would your appreciation of the “greatest country in the universe” extend to actually signing up for military duty? Or do yoy prefer to let others (like julian) do the dying?
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Oct 1st, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
#84…first of all…I like Finland and its people very much.I base this on having visited Finland 5 times,and I am proud to be a Finnish American. I see many positive aspects of Finnish culture and history.
I have also witnessed negative aspects of Finland in my travels(not many)..
I think that the readers digest ranking of Finland,is in the ball park,in pointing out that all of the Nordic countries rank very favorably…I agree with that…
Whatever else I have said about Readers Digest still stands..
I also stand by every thing I write on this blog. A lot of people here on this blog do not like what I say in print.
This is a political blog and I think it is necessary for people like me to speak their mind freely.If any one on this blog does not like what I say,…oh well so be it..
I disagree with a lot of things many other people say on this blog.
That’s what a political blog is about..
Comment by infinndel — Tue, Oct 2nd, 2007 @ 12:27 am
It’s sort of interesting that if you read the biographies of notable scientists of Finnish birth, you can deduce two bits of advice if you want to be one: first, select your parents and connections carefully, i.e. be a Finland-Swede and get to know a notable professor; second, as soon you’ve got your PhD diploma in your hand, get the hell out the country.
Comment by sepisp — Tue, Oct 2nd, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
My life’s been bland. I’ve basically been doing nothing to speak of, but what can I say? Not that it matters. Eh. Such is life.
Comment by tranny com — Tue, May 27th, 2008 @ 12:58 pm