Outrage! Real individualists do not need music, especially classical music which does not produce revenue. I say take the 92 million and distribute it among the population. Or subsidize Rush. One of the two.

The problem I see with tax payer-funded music (or art, in general) is that it just becomes a political tug-of-war to see who gets the subsidy. And it’s obviously not necessarily part of any democratic process, like one might assume.

I always liked Pavarotti’s spirit in bringing opera to the masses via commercial means. It reached far more people than if he’d have relied on some cheesy government funding scheme. He actually created wealth for many people around him and was able to help those in need…

Pavarotti annually hosted the “Pavarotti and Friends” charity concerts in his home town of Modena in Italy, joining with singers from all parts of the music industry to raise money for several UN causes. Concerts were held for War Child, and victims of war and civil unrest in Bosnia, Guatemala, Kosovo, and Iraq.

Couldn’t have done that with a bunch of tax payer-provided Finn-Euros. Nobody’d have even known who he was without the commercial success. Besides, shouldn’t countries like Finland concentrate on improving the economy to get some better health care instead of funding music? :-/

I definately agree with Kristian with what he says about health care and music. Helping the sick isn’t working well at all and still we spend millions on music. Ridiculous…

Not to mention that the academy hasn’t produced another Sibelius since the 1920s…..

Funding folk music would be more interesting but, like so many things, money and popularity tends to kill the creative edge needed to be truly original or innovative. At least they aren’t spending it on ice sculpture in the middle of summertime.

“Not to mention that the academy hasn’t produced another Sibelius since the 1920s…..”

Maybe not, but a whole bunch of world-famous conductors and instrumental virtuosos. It could very well be argued that Finland is, relatively speaking, one of the world leaders in classical music, and that is not a bad ‘calling card’.

#5 was mine…

But it’s also so that many of those who have studied classical music in musiikkiopisto use that training in their future careers as rock musicians. For example Andy McCoy and Michael Monroe have said that it is would not have been possible for them to make good rock music without their piano training.

Yeah, of course art music has to get all the subsidies because it’s not commercial and wouldn’t exist without them. Esa-Pekka Salonen or Carita Mattila may nowadays get barely along, but what if had not had a place where to practice or experienced helpers when they were kids.

The rock’n'roll kids on the other hand make commercial music and can easily pay for the place and teachers. “Just get a well-paying gig or make a record and stop whining!” is what I told my twelve-year-old son. Or get new a dad who’s willing to pay for it all!

It’s the rich kids who rock, the rest should concentrate on something cheaper, like collecting cones or singing opera. Whining about taxes on the net is an option too.

Not to mention that the academy hasn’t produced another Sibelius since the 1920s…..

Yes indeed, another brilliantly enlightened post, although I’m not altogether sure who was that particular composer whom the academy produced during that decade, the academy which didn’t even exist back then. Perhaps you mean Ilmari Väänänen and his “Karjalan tanture tömisköön”?

But I notice with delight that apparently Sibelius was not too drunk to be a moderately good composer even according to our lovely Finnophile. Then again Sibbe wasn’t really a Finn by race … or perhaps he was after all: When Aino wanted to know when Janne would be back from one of his drinking sessions in Kämppi with Eino Leino and co, he answered: “I’m a composer not a clairvoyant”. Then he went to Esplanadi Park and pooped.

I just have to give this link in order to show that the millions invested in artsy music are not wasted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLuc0aNbm98

Viisi USA:n kansalaista hakee turvapaikkaa Suomesta

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/uutinen.asp?id=1437905

#7 ” Andy McCoy and Michael Monroe have said that it is would not have been possible for them to make good rock music without their piano training.”

Since when have either of these two EVER made good rock music? If they are some of the good examples of the school and sysytem, I say shut it down now. Never understood why Finnish music is so, how do I say it, unsuccessful when compared to our western neighbour. If however, McCoy and Monroe are the examples of success, I am glad to now understand.

Actually public funding of classical music is a real success story. Every pupil in Finland is tested for musical skills in 3-4 grade and if a talented pupil wants, he can join the special music class (musiikkiluokka) instead of normal class. Almost every town has one.

#13 so where are all of these gifted Finnish musicians? Oh that’s right Andy McCoy and Michael Monroe, I almost forgot. Seems like more wonderful spending of our taxes by big brother.

Never understood why Finnish music is so, how do I say it, unsuccessful when compared to our western neighbour.

South Africa?

As to Finnish rock music exports, they are on a rapid rise, 20-30% a year from the late nighties onwards. Already Finland can be considered one of the very few serious players in the field – in the “hard category” in particular – albeit far from the big tree USA, UK and Sweden.

Why ignorant WASPs think that Finnish music exports are minimal depends on the fact that Finnish bands are usually big outside the English-speaking world which doesn’t really count. Furthermore you, in particular, seem to think that everything Finnish is by default rubbish.

Then again Finnish rock isn’t totally unknown in the English-speaking world anymore. This week HIM took over the top position on the British rock chart from Nightwish. Let’s see if Nightwish will sell gold in the USA with their album like HIM did.

Punter:
#13 so where are all of these gifted Finnish musicians?

Oh, they are in places you wouldn’t know of.

tim73:
Every pupil in Finland is tested for musical skills in 3-4 grade

Of course, that’s far too late to start serious classical training.

This is indeed a huge waste. Classical music training is one of those things of the past, that now only hangs in lifesupport.
Apparently the politicians and people in the “culture field” have some fantasies of Sibelius himself coming back to earth or something.

Meanwhile Finland is extremely succesful and renowed in rock, metal and electronic music genres, but do they get subsidies? Of course not, and better yet the cities extensively remove rehearsal space and small clubs that are the breeding ground of these things.

Sure it’s nice to have that photo-op with Lordi once they win the eurovision, but did they get anything from anyone during the decades prior?

Anyway it’s retarded that some genre of art should be privileged and lifted above the others. I’m sure people who like opera and classical concerts can pay for their own fun just like everyone else does.

Laila Kinnunen: Yeh Yeh, 1965
http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&a=03381

Iso D: My Generation, 1966
http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&a=03363

Hurriganes: Roadrunner, 1984 and Remu’s legendary English
http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&a=03371

There’s a lot more music clips from YLE
http://www.yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=h&n=musiikkiesitykset

And who said that Finns can twist but not rock’n'roll?

Hurriganes is naturally from 1974 not 84. I think that by 84 most of the band was already dead.

This should be the anthem of Musex if it isn’t already.

Sleepy Sleepers: Hevi tappaa 1984
http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&a=03493

Kukaan ei soita enää Abbaa, hevi tulee ja hevi tappaa (Nobody’s listening to Abba anymore, heavy music gets you and heavy music kills you.)

Here are the same guys a few years later with The Red Russian Army Choir
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhIMEMDYxZE
I think that Leningrad Cowboys was the first international success story, along with Hanoi Rocks in the 80s.

This is the last one, I promise. I just wonder why Jari didn’t make it big time, internationally, with this fine song and nice video (that winter especially would like).

Jari Sillanpää: Party 4 Love
http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&a=03761

#20- “I think that Leningrad Cowboys was the first international success story, along with Hanoi Rocks in the 80s.”

ha ha ha ha etc etc etc…..

What the hell do you equate to being “international success stories?” Almost like a wife carrying world champion, sauna champion, swamp football world champion etc etc etc.
“International success story………” that’s a classic

Punter, Punter, knowing that you are hardly ever right about anything, do really think that you should challenge me on something I know this well?

In his own world, Punter is always right. And we know that’s what really counts.

Btw, Punty, ever heard of the LA Philharmonic Orchestra?

#23 are you telling me The Leningrad Cowboys are an international success? If so then yes I will challenge you on that because in the realms of international music fame they are not even a spot on the pimple of the ass of a fly on the wall. Neither are Hanoi Rocks.
As for Franky, yes of course I have heard of the LA Phil, So what? What is your point. That Salonen is musical director there and for that reason Finns are the top shit of the worlds music cream? My God man, you were well taught in this country.

Yeah!!!! Everyone sing “Esa-Pekka Salonen… E-P Salonen”
“Esa-Pekka Salonen…. E-P Salonen” in that fucking stupid annoying little jingle you Finns seem to have for everyone or anyone that ever wins anything in this country. Thank God we don’t have to listen to it too often because YOU NEBER WIN ANYTHING IMPORTANT.

Yeah!!!! Everyone sing “Esa-Pekka Salonen… E-P Salonen”
“Esa-Pekka Salonen…. E-P Salonen” in that fucking stupid annoying little jingle you Finns seem to have for everyone or anyone that ever wins anything in this country.

Certainly, and we manage to do so while simultaneously shunning and discouraging success, as Sirkuspelle is keen on telling us. We’re funky that way.

Seems like you could use a taste of tim73′s pills. Or have you already sampled them?

YOU NEBER WIN ANYTHING IMPORTANT.

I don’t know what would be important to you. The sheepshagging world championships probably.

Punter, sulla viiraa päässä aika pahasti.

We’ left that to the kiwis dumb ass. We only worry about the important things.

Tsuhna, no the problem is in your wiring if you think they are international success stories. My head is fine.

Anonypundit – He ceased composing in the 20s and he attended the same eponymous academy at some point, presumeably before it was renamed.

All of the musicians of Queen were classically trained, too…but I don’t think they needed the lame eurovision contest or rubber wings to put themselves on the map, i.e. they had talent. Maybe it was the flaming fabulosity and the sparkles.

I once knew this person who was unable to understand how ugly he sounded, you know, insulting everyone without realizing it. A typical narcissistic personality disorder in other words. Or so I thought. Actually it turned out before the proceedings that he was a psychopath after all. He knew that he was insulting everyone but kept doing it anyway. He just loved it.

But now I realized all of a sudden that deepening my friendship with you, Punter, seems unlikely, so it must be: good night, farewell (hopefully back to where you came from).

yötä

Hanoi Rocks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e51VhDHqb-0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYh9PxRfeto

“Mitään ei olla otettu…”

But why is Flash playing drums in Hanoi Rocks.

Perhaps it wasn’t Axl alone who copied Hanoi Rocks. “The only reason I put my hair up is because Izzy had these pictures of Hanoi Rocks and they were cool …”

Just a thought on this “money investment must produce the best” trend – investing in culture usually take generations to see the result. Besides, the goal is probably not about creating the world’s greatest musician or composer per se. Through the study of music, people may appreciate music more through understanding the language of music. This appreciation can enhance the emotion quality of life.

Also, the understanding of music can help us explain why some musician is better and not merely based on the intuition. When there is a standard of ‘good’ music, people will have something to aspire to.

Finally, if Finns don’t invest in funding cultural education, or only invest for short-term financial reasons, then Finland will always be the culture colony of someone else’s, no matter how free, how financially independen Finland is.

I am sure there are more appropriate ways to measure the level of success. In my mind, fame and money are hardly the only ones.

“I am sure there are more appropriate ways to measure the level of success. In my mind, fame and money are hardly the only ones.”

Well put David.