Wow! This doesn’t really calculate under higher taxes and wages. There must be something else behind this as well.

Welfare state vrs market based state?

If I turn in 5 shirts, I get them done for $5.00 so $1.00 a shirt.

Strange topic but I just had the same problem. I can’t understand the price difference to start with but the time factor is even more amazing. In Australia it’s same day service to. Heck, they’ll even pick it up and drop it off at another location if needed. This one really has my mind spinning……….

Finnish dry cleaners usually send the clothes over to Estonia to get cleaned.

I am also aghast at the prices here. I just don’t get it. I guess they do it because they can.

Damn, what are you still doing in Finland but whining?
Everything’s better in the States, so back off!

Finland is EXTREMELY expensive, and salaries are low. In Finland, I don’t wear anything that needs dry-cleaning. I also don’t get my hair cut (about 20€). For those types of things, I wait for the next trip to Germany. The prices there resemble the USA’s; not quite as good, but close enough.

Regarding Finland, you have to look at the Tax Wedge effect and consider how it applies to Finland’s relative position. It ensures very little competition in the consumer marketplace and low-volume turnover.

Salaries are low? They are higher than the wages in Belgium :/ And we’re a “rich” country…

Maybe you didn’t look in the right places Phil?

I don’t think this is the reason we don’t all wear suits as religiously as in Anglo-Saxon countries like the UK and USA. Business atire is just less liberal and more formal in those countries (and many others).

I say, where did you find that dry cleaner’s? I get mine back next day… Anyway, I think it is the other way round. People are less stiff about what to wear, hence not so much dry cleaning, hence higher pirces. – A hint to American sales reps coming over: overdressing hurts your credibility.

I think the reason why services like dry cleaning are expensive in Finland is that Finns are not used to using services like that.
Finland has always been a self-service country where you’re supposed wash your own clothes and scrub your toilet and mow your own lawn.
Of course, if you are rich and lazy, you can hire someone to do those things for you, but it’s going to be expensive since there’s not much demand for services like that in Finland, unlike in the States where everyone takes their clothes to dry cleaning and housework is done by illegal immigrants.

Like staed by others, prices are high because thay can ask it. Finns screw themselves. If prices would not be so high, I would hear no complaints about low salaries from Kristian, etc. Taxes do not explain everything. Even smart, foreign entrepreneurs with a good understanding of the market mechanism will eventually do the same; ask high prices because 1. It makes their overpriced product/service look like a quality product and 2. They can…

Long live imports!

I have to agree with anonymous here. There is so little demand for these service in Finland that they are expensive. Think you can do it cheaper? Start you own business! Free market FTW! Maybe if the prices were lower more people would use it? But as said finns a re used to do their own landury, and pay everyone enough pay so that they can manage.

@Firepower: Yes, start your own business is a nice theory, but if it’s a foreigner he’s already having a problem (because he’s a foreigner) and when your service or product is low priced, part of the customers will think it’s cheap, thus bad. Combined with foreign makes it cheap foreign crap.

And new businesses in Finland need to compensate for the fact that they are forced to pay taxes up front, even when they haven’t made a single cent of profit, and also because they get only small business loans. In other words they put big margins per item to start with to compensate the risk. And when it’s a succesfull enterprise, nobody will lower those margins later on. Why would they?

Usually I don’t take issue with you Finnish apologists, but this one really takes it.

According to you, it is because Finland is so RELAXED that they deserve to pay TEN TIMES what other countries pay for a service as everyday and normal as WASHING YOUR CLOTHES.

Then some genius up there advises people NOT TO TRUST foreigners who are TOO WELL DRESSED… Because???? Because you are a twat. An apologist sheep-baby.

You fucking idiots really have just descended from the forest, you bark-eating heathens.

No joke. Go ahead and pay ten times the cost, see if I care. But see if I want to spend the rest of my life trying to figure out you retards.

I would think that, like on “The Jefferson’s,” (you ignorant Finns who don’t know what I’m talking about will have to look it up), someone could EASILY “make it to the top,” foreign or otherwise, if they were to open a good, cheaper place to get clothes drycleaned in the city*.

*Because we all know in other parts of non-urbanized Finland, they are even MORE “relaxed,” and tend to remain clothed in their native polyester, neon-colored “sports outfits” and acid rain-bleached Karjala caps.

Dave the Revelator:
Well until someone opens a cheap dry-cleaner I think most Finns do their own laundry. Feel free to open a cheap dry-cleaner. The problem is that there isn’t enough demand for this. More demand -> more competition -> cheaper prices. But as there is so little demand no-one wants to compete in the field.

“Of course, if you are rich and lazy, you can hire someone to do those things for you, but it’s going to be expensive since there’s not much demand for services like that in Finland, unlike in the States where everyone takes their clothes to dry cleaning and housework is done by illegal immigrants.” – Anonymous

Obviously you have never owned a piece of clothing that had “DRY CLEAN ONLY” sewn into the inside label. Or maybe you have? How did you, you do-it-yourselfer manage to clean your suit at home? Did you perhaps sprinkle dried washing powder all over it and then air it out with your “homemade fan” of a piece of cardboard that fell off the paper mill truck on the main road near your village?

Yeah, stay at home, man… Stay at home and dry clean your own clothes. Jesus what a maroon. Did you know that dry cleaning is a special process involving various non-household chemicals? No.

But at least you don’t have any illegal aliens working for you, do you? In fact, in Finland, you feel lucky to have a job at all (assuming you do).

“The problem is that there isn’t enough demand for this. More demand -> more competition -> cheaper prices.” Firepower

Oh, thanks! Now I get an offer to be an entrepreneur AND a little lesson in the theory of supply and demand. And I assume that you have done extensive research into this field, that you can safely assume that “there is no demand for dry cleaning…” Nice work.

Here’s a lesson for you: YOU CANNOT DRY CLEAN CLOTHES AT HOME! END OF STORY.

The simple fact is, apparently, Finns go around in their business suits and they are just filthy because they don’t wash them enough. NOW THAT’S CLASSY!

PS: I just LOVE how many Finnish “businessmen,” who obviously have no clue, don’t have the brains to take off that little name brand sewn-on tag on the left cuff of their sportcoats. Despite the fact that the tags are held on by two threads. (THEY ARE FOR IDENTIFICATION AT THE STORE!!! You’re not supposed to keep them on after you buy the suit, jackasses!!! It is not a pair of Nike running shoes it is a suit. TAKE OFF THE LITTLE TAG on your suit. You look like a fucking moron.

I guess I know what this is about. The price is high, because the demand is ‘inelastic of price’ which is plain English is that people can’t practically avoid buying, no matter how unreasonable the price is.

This could be the case of the business suit drycleaning: People who do pay, wash their business suit the absolute minimum. Otherwise, they won’t show up.

It’s a good question, is this policy more profitable, or would it be more profitable to rise something like 5 per suit. Maybe not. It could well be that people still did the absolute minimum.

That could be a matter of cultural taste: I just feel somehow bad about dry-cleaning. If someone does my laundry (point taken, I couldn’t do it myself), I feel uncomfortable as if I was a landlord or something. Or, on the other hand, if I was doing this bad ‘consumption’ thing, which is a sin and very very unreasonable.

You people are idiots. Anything that is remotely helpful or convenient to have in one’s everyday life is immediately viewed in this country as “overtly extravagant” or “only for the truly lazy”. Grow the fuck up and welcome to the twenty-first century. It’s absurd that this country is so advanced in the latest and greatest in mobile technology, but can’t seem to grasp the convenience in having:

1.) Grocery stores open past 6pm on a Saturday
2.) Cost and time efficient dry cleaning services
3.) More than one place (Pharmacy) to buy a fuckin’ aspirin if you have a headache
4.) First come, first serve ANYTHING (you have to reserve or take a number for virtually EVERY service in this country)
5.) Tipping system in restaurants–why do you think the service sucks so much here?

I hate how Finnish people refuse to boldly state “this sucks”, only to retreat to the dark corners of their minds and their bottles to complain that things do, in fact, suck.

Dave the Revelator #16.

Good stuff. I totally agree. Ha!

I just LOVE how many Finnish “businessmen,” who obviously have no clue, don’t have the brains to take off that little name brand sewn-on tag on the left cuff of their sportcoats. Despite the fact that the tags are held on by two threads.

Hehe, yeah whenever you see someone with those tags still on, ask, “New suit?” and they’re like “Yeah how’d you guess!?”

For Firepower

“More demand -> more competition -> cheaper prices”

You are an idiot. It’s just a matter of fact that things here are WAY too expensive, considering the shit salaries that people earn. I guess, by your genius logic of “More demand -> more competition -> cheaper prices”, there must not be a high demand for a.) Housing b.) jobs and c.) food.

What a utopia this country is!

You really opened a can of worms with this one, Phil. Good work!

If you’re in a profession that requires suits you’re fucked anyway.

On sidenote, how many dollars does that american education for the dead-end engineer degree (where you might need a suit occasionally) set you back again? 30,000 bucks/year?

Look I found a single thing that’s more expensive in the US than it is here so I totally win.

“I think the reason why services like dry cleaning are expensive in Finland is that Finns are not used to using services like that.”

Then why are restaurants so overpriced?

And what about taxis—Finns don’t use those either?

And medicine?

“1.) Grocery stores open past 6pm on a Saturday
2.) Cost and time efficient dry cleaning services
3.) More than one place (Pharmacy) to buy a fuckin’ aspirin if you have a headache”

Agreed.

“4.) First come, first serve ANYTHING (you have to reserve or take a number for virtually EVERY service in this country)”

I didn’t understand. You mean that a standing queue is better than numbers or reservations? I think they are “First come, first serve” too.

“5.) Tipping system in restaurants–why do you think the service sucks so much here?”

Nah, it sucks in the USA too. And at least those “stupid finnish sheep” travelling with me tipped anyway.

Let’s not even talk about the alcohol ripoff.

Maybe overpriced cars would be worth talking about?

or how about the fact that there’s no good public transit alternative.

USA, Occupational Employment and Wages, May 2006:

51-6011 Laundry and Dry-Cleaning Workers

Operate or tend washing or dry-cleaning machines to wash or dry-clean industrial or household articles, such as cloth garments, suede, leather, furs, blankets, draperies, fine linens, rugs, and carpets. Include spotters and dyers of these articles

Hourly Wage:
10 percent: $6.50
25 percent: $7.37
MEDIAN wage: $8.58
75 percent: $10.39
90 percent: $12.60

So that would be $1350 / less than 1000 euros per month with that MEDIAN wage (157 hours). No wonder it is cheap in the US…

“So that would be $1350 / less than 1000 euros per month with that MEDIAN wage (157 hours). No wonder it is cheap in the US…” tim73

Ha ha. Nice try. Have you ever seen who works at SOL and the like? You think they are making any more money (TEN FUCKING TIMES MORE) than their US counterparts (or for example a cleaner or simple laborer here)?

I would guess (unless they own the place or are in managerial positions) that they make about the same, of course there are the employee benefits and stuff that Finnish employment law dictates, but that in no freaking way could lead to such markups.

It’s a scam and you’ve been had all these years, and apparently didn’t even know it.

You Americans are such wankers, always complaining about every god damned thing. “The food is too expensive”, “the dry-cleaner is too expensive”, “why ain’t stores open blablabla…”. If you don’t like how things are in Europe, move the fuck back to the US or any other hole you crawled out of. Don’t just fucking whine all the time! As if the US is such a fucking utopia. Why is your health care system worth shit then, and your education system worthless, why can’t Americans even point places like Iraq on a fucking map, kids can buy guns, people get shot,robbed or murdered every single day,etc…

Start up a site for all you retards to go and whine all day, I bet you’ll have lots of members!

From that 1350 dollars one has to subtract health care costs (300-500 dollars per month), rent, taxes and the end conclusion is: Get a second job! Or even third one! Like in some….third world hellhole!

“Let’s not even talk about the alcohol ripoff.” Kristian

No. Let’s not for once. Finally a topic that is original and you gotta self reference to all that crap again.

Ugh.

I gotta go to the bank now, my loan officer has made a decision to extend some extra cash on my mortgage. You see, I have some dry cleaning that needs to be picked up in Helsinki.

One thing I miss when thinking of my two years in Boston is dry cleaning and baked Boston beans with frankfurters. Besides I think our fry cleaners murder your suit.

“As if the US is such a fucking utopia.” – David

Shut the fuck up you Belgian fuck.

Nobody, except in the extreme case of the tremendously retarded Winter, says on here that the US is a fucking utopia. It is wankers like you who don’t demand better service, so all of us get worse service.

Why do you think that Helsinki is finally changing into a city that doesn’t think karaoke (and a couple of Kossus in the park beforehand) is the only form of entertainment on a Friday night? Why do you think restaurants are improving beyond meatballs and mashed potatoes? Why do you think most restaurants have wine lists?

It’s because of the fact that Finns have actually (now in large numbers) gone out and seen the rest of the world and noticed that things could, perhaps, be done a bit differently at home.

It’s also because of the fact that there is a growing population of foreigners here who are actually complaining when they get shit service, stiffed by retailers and fucked over by asshole, old-school Finnish government workers (among others).

In any case it is not time for us to stop complaining. Perhaps it is time for you to stop listening, or better still, actually listen to what we are saying instead of bitching about it.

Additionally, if you find the complaining so offensive, might I suggest you start a blog for happy Belgians who love the wonderful lifestyle in Finland. “Ooooh! The trees! The berries! The mushrooms! The service industry! Ooooh la la!”

Dave, you’re such a stuck up little bitch you know? Nobody is telling you to stay in Finland, leave if you don’t like it!

My god, instead of moaning and bitching, get the fuck back to the pit you crawled out from. It’s not that because some stupid fucking American thinks Finland should change, they will. Or are you just that retarded to think it will actually will change, because it benefits you?

Finland is Finland, sure some things can change, but that doesn’t mean that Finland should become like America. It’s something you stupid fucks would like maybe, next thing you know, they even want to invade Europe and call it New America.

A big middle finger for you my boy!

That “Suit dry cleaned and pressed in Finland: 27.35€” is a bit extreme example, here is a better list:

http://194.211.36.75/prices/2/

Example from UK:

Suits
2pce from…£9.50 (15 euros, $20)
Trousers from…£3.95
Jackets from…£5.99

LAUNDRY
If wash is two loads i.e. dark/lights add £2.50
6 lb. £5.50
10 lb. £8.00
14 lb. £10.50

Germany:
10-20 Euros for suits and most clothing items usually.

David, you and I both know where your middle finger has been. Go wash it off.

Incidentally, I am half Finnish (have both passports), so it is not me, you fucking waffle eating cocksucker, who should leave.

It is you.

“You Americans are such wankers, always complaining about every god damned thing.”

It’s not just the Americans. We Finns do it, too. Believe me when I say that we’re not all brainwashed. Most maybe, but not all. The people that I know complain even more than I do. But they’ve lived in places other than Finland.

“Finally a topic that is original and you gotta self reference to all that crap again.”

Have you noted the purchasing power differences between Finland and the rest of Europe?

Dry cleaning type of services are cheap in the US because those are done by illegal/poor immigrants earning close to minimum wage.

Dry cleaning is expensive and even monopolistic here but given the fact, most Finns prefer to use their own washing machines and probably own only few pieces for dry cleaning, it is no wonder. (Most new household gizmos are testmarketed first in Finland and in Japan, FYI).

“(Most new household gizmos are testmarketed first in Finland and in Japan, FYI).” tim73

HAHAHAHAHAHAA!

Yeah, like the automatic dishwasher. That’s cutting edge. I swear I saw one for sale at Stockmann for only 4000 euros.

@Dave: I’m not even living in Finland yet. I suggest you go wash your asshole then too, cause that’s where I put my finger in.

Anyways, even if you are half Finnish, seems you have the mindset of an American.

@Kristian: Sure, here people whine too, heck I even whine too from time to time, why you think I’m going to move to Finland? I want to get out of here and try something new. It’s only that Americans are well known for their whining behavior on about every board you join. Happens on the Japanese forum on daily basis.

Then some genius up there advises people NOT TO TRUST foreigners who are TOO WELL DRESSED… Because???? Because you are a twat. An apologist sheep-baby.

It is true though, whether it is twatish or not is quite another thing. I am sure if you went to a job interview in USA NOT wearing a suit, you would be considered equally twatish.
Globalisation has not given everyone the same cultural values – yet.

JG—

it’s not that uptight in the US. Depends on the type of job. Of course, the salaries are much higher for many job categories, so maybe there’s more pressure to ‘look the part.’

David—

you have to see the whining as a necessary step toward improvement. Maybe not the whining per se, but the raising of awareness. Nearly all of what we discuss here is reported in Finnish news sources; we simply highlight it. And it is also discussed in Finnish-speaking forums.

When you move to Finland, you’ll find that its best features are things like low-population density, remoteness from c. Europe, nature… But once you grow tired of picking berries in the forest, you’ll start missing those little niceties like going to a restaurant anytime you feel like it. Instead, you’ll need to think twice about whether you can afford to drop another 20e or 30e.

Transportation will also be a problem, so bring a car with you…but own it for at least a year before entering the country, or else you’ll get hit with a e.g.—8K-e car tax bill. No kidding.

Eventually you’ll start questioning your own decision to migrate. That’s when you’ll either leave Finland, or you’ll join our chorus for hopes of improvement.

Tim73:
“Germany:
10-20 Euros for suits and most clothing items usually.”

No, not “most items.” I paid about 12,50e for suits. This price list from a cleaner in Bavaria states 14,50e. Yes, I know both are overpriced compared to the US, but they are still roughly half the Finnish price.

But, notice that shirts only cost 1,60e compared to Finland’s 4,50e-per-shirt (for 5-shirts or more!).

Overall, the service costs less-than-half of Finland’s price. And the laundry peons in Germany have a higher standard-of-living than those in Finland.

So, ripoff prices and exorbitant Finn-taxes aren’t a requirement for living well. I mean, 10e to clean a table cloth in Finland???!!! Realize that this isn’t just about laundry; overpricing is a problem in all Finnish sectors.

Hehe, some little bitch has forgotten to take their medicine!

And agen we are coming to the basic guestion…. why in the fock should we all care go to US and you should be all fine. Go write to HS if your realy are concerned with these kind of things and not discuss with punch of 16y old fins.
Posters like Dave the Revelator like someone said got clearly the American view point and we could talk here all day(like I’m sure Phil wants), but no one here isnt going to change anything on anybodys head. Its just endless flaming by some that realy care and by 85%(calculated) that are here to keep the endless flaming going on(like Phil seems to like it).
And are you realy writing anything anymore Kristian or just copy pasting now days. You should have the Tax are too high type of texts for next 5 years.

Example Kristian is good example who simplifies pretty much everything and blindly says no to every counter comment. With this kind of posters there isnt ever going to be any real talk by people that do realy know something. Phil makes good posts and would be fun to realy talk them out.

I laugh at you suit clowns

“So, ripoff prices and exorbitant Finn-taxes aren’t a requirement for living well.”

Well, why don’t you start your own business then. Tons of money to be made in dry cleaning! I think it is more question of lack of customers then ripoff prices. Laundries require high population density like in London, Boston, New York and they must be within walking distance.

Finns probably would not bring their laundry even with 1/4 prices to justify the price cut. Decent washing machine costs about 400 euros. So even with price of three euros per wash (see UK prices, actual more like 5-7 euros), after about 1.5 years it is cheaper to use the machine. Clothes requiring actual dry cleaning is a pain in the ass anyway

Taxes of course could be lower but what we do not certainly want is TAX DEFERRALS like in the US. Federal and state levels are heavily indebted precisely because of tax cuts and cannot even have funds to maintain infrastucture.

“Well, why don’t you start your own business then.[...] Taxes of course could be lower”

You just answered your own question. Prices adjust to their economic surroundings, whether you want or not. Of course, population density is important too, but there are 1-million people in the Helsinki region. That little cleaner in Germany is probably in a town with 5K inhabitants.

Insofar as the US, I see spending as the biggest problem. Huge defense (invasion) budget, military bases around the world, oil company executives (and others) getting super-rich at expense of population…

And I should add, that low-volume caused by high-priced economy normally doesn’t equate to good business success. That’s why starting a business in Finland (presumably, to take advantage of the high-prices) is not as easy as it sounds.

JG—

it’s not that uptight in the US. Depends on the type of job. Of course, the salaries are much higher for many job categories, so maybe there’s more pressure to ‘look the part.’

But of course, your comment about looking the part merely highlights the difference in clothing attitudes. In Finland, it is often neither necessary or expected that the wearing of a suit is what is needed to “look the part”, where it is often is in the USA. This does not make either country superior to either, it’s just different values. Nor, is everything down to economics.

My personal opinion is that I couldn’t really care that much how people dress, but not everyone is like that. I have been involved in recruiting staff in the UK, Sweden and in Finland. I can tell you that in the UK it would be considered completely hopeless to go to an office job interview in anything else other than a full suit with shirt and tie. On the other hand, I remember a colleague in Sweden telling me that she thought one applicant was overdressed and therefore likely to be stiff and boring and not fit in with the co-workers. (I was generally more concerned about whether they could do the job!)

I spent a year as a consultant in Finland. I was asked if I felt uncomfortable in the office as everyone else was wearing a shirt, tie and jacket and there I was in a fleece pullover, except when traveling to meet clients. I told them that I was at first, but I got over it quickly by reminding myself how much I saved by not buying a whole wardrobe just to fit in. I still cannot understand why they spent so much of their income on clothing for work. Odd thing, the boos had no problem with my dress. If anything I was the excuse for others to dress down, just a bit.

“If you don’t like how things are in Europe, move the fuck back to the US”
– Haha. I did!

Like situation in Estonia. Most people do their own laundry and only if it’s suit or something like that they go to some dry cleaner.
And estonians wear suits like our friends finns. Not quite often.

PS: I just LOVE how many Finnish “businessmen,” who obviously have no clue, don’t have the brains to take off that little name brand sewn-on tag on the left cuff of their sportcoats.

Hey, if you spent a month’s net income on a Hugo Boss suit, ya gotta let it show!

Personally, I think that relatively little dry-cleaning is just good for the environment, considering the shit that is used in it. There were more dry-cleaners in Helsinki during Kekkoslovakian times, though I do remember them always being somewhat dear. I shortened my trousers in New York and the charge was more than $1.50, IIRC. Probably around $15.

As for dress code, I don’t know what you consider a “businessman”, but I usually wear a suit to customer and other business meetings, whereas at other times (doing menial 9-5 work in an office) I don’t. It would seem a bit silly.

Why do you think that Helsinki is finally changing into a city that doesn’t think karaoke (and a couple of Kossus in the park beforehand) is the only form of entertainment on a Friday night?

Uh, Karaoke only caught on in the early 90s, or perhaps late 80s. Before that it was just the Kossu.

Why do you think restaurants are improving beyond meatballs and mashed potatoes?

I’d say that the restaurants have gotten worse, especially after the Wal-Martisation by S-Ryhmä. Sure, there are some interesting ones in the more expensive range, but I’m talking about the ones that regular people who work for a living go to.

“Uh, Karaoke only caught on in the early 90s, or perhaps late 80s. Before that it was just the Kossu. ” FFranklin

Fair enough. That’s about when I arrived, 1990. I guess it was the Kossu x 2 and the jukeboxi at the local gas station, then.

“I’d say that the restaurants have gotten worse, especially after the Wal-Martisation by S-Ryhmä. Sure, there are some interesting ones in the more expensive range, but I’m talking about the ones that regular people who work for a living go to.” FFranklin

Ain’t that the truth! I don’t mean those kinds of places, but the little restaurants in downtown Hki like Slussen (for example, I’m not a big customer of restaurants… can’t really afford it) I nearly came in me trousers when I ate a steak there. ‘Twas good.

5.) Tipping system in restaurants–why do you think the service sucks so much here?

Exorbitant tips do not guarantee good service. Overall, service in Finnish restaurants is pretty good. While waiters and waitresses don’t usually compete who can stick their tongue furthest in your ass, I have never ever received completely substandard service in Finland.

By the way, waiting staff used to be on a 10-15% commission in the better places and they could make decent money. The recession completely killed the work as a career choice. Nowadays it is mostly seen as temporary work, much like in the States.

Phil:

Real Pizza:
http://fredfryinternational.blogspot.com/2007/08/homemade-sicilian-pizza.html

Gumbo:
http://fredfryinternational.blogspot.com/2007/09/homemade-shrimp-gumbo.html

The pizza place idea idea is not dead!

Two things in these posts really stand out to me.
1. Are you all so F’ing ignorant? The things (as mentioned by someone way back) that require dry cleaning require just that. DRY CLEANING. Get it through your thick Finnish heads that dry cleaning can’t be done at home. Regardless of where your washing machine was R&D’d or tested. It needs DRY F’ING CLEANING: Dumbass Juntti’s.

2. We (and I hope I speak for many contributors here) are not all Americans. Nor do we wish for Finland to be America. Few things piss me off more than people here that answer every critical comment against Finland with the typical anti US BS. Get over it. Whether we are American, Australian, British, Morrocan, French or whatever, we are mentioning what we see as areas to improve on in Finland. Not saying we want to live in The States. Get over it already.

Well, yesh.

It is a catch-22 situation. Nobody demands the service because its expensive – services are expensive because theres no demand…

Back in the 1960′s men dressed in suits, I see a lot of “smart casual” at work. I wore a three-piece one day I needed to go meet the client so
- 2 guys asked if I went to a funeral
- 1 guy asked if I wa to a wedding
- 1 guy asked if I was to a wedding or a funeral
- 5 guys (noting one on the floor I don’t get the time of day) asked if I had been to a job interview.

Well, considering you can get a suit from Germany off ebay 60 euros and at Halonen sale for about 80, I follow my dad’s advice: “if you need to wear a suit, buy 6 or 7, never wear a suit two days in a row, take your jacket off, always buy with two pairs of trousers, keep the trousers pressed and hanged out and rotate them & air out on the balcony.

And yeah, stupid twats who leave the tags on are just that

BUT – Phil & Yanks – the biggest difference is for the low demand for dry cleaning, we here eat with a fork and knife with table manners. So we don’t have the suit all messed up with pizza and hot dog residue

I think the knee-jerk reactions are due to the fact that “us who have lived here” remember how a banana was an exotic fruit and having a tomato in the winter was exiting… And the country has changed “leaps and bounds” – sometimes even too fast. And I don’t think all of that is necessarily been good. Too fast change – look at Estonia – you see the upsides and the downsides there clearly.

For your average “working man” with the purchase power (that low one) your whining is silly. 30 years ago we didn’t even have a color tv (and for those two channels why bother). So what is this whining for? If it resembles DDR, well, you’ve never been to the DDR have you?

Punter, nr 64, your points about some people always answering critical comments on Finland with “anti US BS” are completely hypocritical when you in the same post use language such as
Are you all so F’ing ignorant?, Get it through your thick Finnish heads, Dumbass Juntti’s
Otherwise it may well have been a relevant valid point.

How does my ignorant Finn and dumbass juntti comment in anyway make my point completely hypocritical? GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD THAT THERE ARE MORE VIEWS HERE THAN WE LOVE EVERYTHING AMERICA.
Australians among other Enlgish speakers also use the F word, probably more so than the Americans. Juntti, at least as far as I know is also somewhat rare in The US (apart from Winter who says it each morning when he looks into the mirror)
GET THE PICTURE JUNTTI?

Dave the Rollator:

“It is wankers like you who don’t demand better service, so all of us get worse service.”

So people who don’t want – or aggressively require – the kind of service you REQUIRE are – wankers? Get a fucking life. So much for the BENEFIT of FREE choice.

“Why do you think that Helsinki is finally changing into a city that doesn’t think karaoke (and a couple of Kossus in the park beforehand) is the only form of entertainment on a Friday night?”

Why do you think you know ANYTHING about what “the city of Helsinki” feels is “the only form of entertainment on a Friday night”?

“Why do you think restaurants are improving beyond meatballs and mashed potatoes? Why do you think most restaurants have wine lists?”

Meatballs and mashed potatoes. Get a fucking life will you. And what is wrong with meatballs anyway? IKEA serves them worldwide with great success.

“It’s because of the fact that Finns have actually (now in large numbers) gone out and seen the rest of the world and noticed that things could, perhaps, be done a bit differently at home.”

Yes, and?

“It’s also because of the fact that there is a growing population of foreigners here who are actually complaining when they get shit service, stiffed by retailers and fucked over by asshole, old-school Finnish government workers (among others).”

I don’t really care to hear this kind of whining without substance. What have the “world-famous finnish wellfare” old-school Finnish government workers done to you.

“In any case it is not time for us to stop complaining.”

It never is.

“Perhaps it is time for you to stop listening, or better still, actually listen to what we are saying instead of bitching about it.”

Yeah sure. If anything remotely close to intelligent would be said. But that never happens. Thanks to people like you.

“Additionally, if you find the complaining so offensive, might I suggest you start a blog for happy Belgians who love the wonderful lifestyle in Finland.”

Might I respectfully ask You to start a blog for idiotic assholes living anywhere. It would be a success if it attracted your kind.

” “Ooooh! The trees! The berries! The mushrooms! The service industry! Ooooh la la!””

Yeah yeah. Get a life.

Phil, you should mention the enormous HUGE price we pay as we get out licence. Over $1000 Euros which I doubt is the same in any other country..

#68: Being such an expert on all things Finnish, you should know that the “juntti” label applies very poorly to Swedish speakers. Even ones from Ostrobothnia. You dumbass Kiwi twat.

Hey Thomas, you’re back. Have a look at the new post. Stop sounding so intelligent with you’re get a life comment too and remember, this was set up by a foreigner so we could have a discussion (you call it a whinge) about the things we see and experience here in Finland. If you disagree then fine but don’t tell us to stop “discussing” obvious shortfalls (in our OPINIONS) that exist here. You are an insecure Finn but feel safe in the fact there you have about 5 million friends.

Born in Finland, live in the forest, think like a Finn? If it looks like a turb, feels like a turd and smells like a turd then you know what they say. JUNTTI

Why is it considered lazy and stuck up to outsource some of the jobs around the house that you don’t have a lot of time for after working all week? I’d love to have a gardner/landscaper, housekeeper and laundress and maybe even a nanny, too. Who doesn’t like a weekend free of chores like laundry that you enjoy some other way?

Punter:

“Hey Thomas, you’re back. Have a look at the new post. Stop sounding so intelligent with you’re get a life comment too and remember, this was set up by a foreigner so we could have a discussion (you call it a whinge) about the things we see and experience here in Finland.”

What NEW POST are you talking about?

“Stop sounding so intelligent”

Can’t help myself .

“you call it a whinge”

When did this happen?

“You are an insecure Finn but feel safe in the fact there you have about 5 million friends.”

How did you draw this conclusion? I FEEL you’re a pedophilic, but am I right? Don’t tell me what you feel I am.

Punter, I have no intention to sink to the depths of your tactic of “debate” which is known to most people as “abuse”.
Your statement is hypocritical because you criticise people whose debating tactic is to claim everything negative is American and that are generally anti-USA, but go about this by being offensive towards Finnish people… i.e. you do exact same thing towards Finnish people as you oppose when directed at Americans. Hardly credible.

I am also more than aware of the usage of the so-called F word in English, I have lived and worked in London! Like Antipodeans, they have been known to utter the expression on more than an occasional basis. However, I think it is sad that you feel the need to be abusive so often in your posts. Your often interesting contributions are often so laced with abuse that your original meaning is drowned. This is sad for debate.

Freeridin’ is also correct. When you do use abusive stereotypes, you do not even use the right one. If you wish to try to offend me, you should be aiming more at the rich snob svenska talande bättre folk line of stereotypical abuse. That would have the corresponding level of inaccuracy as your juntti stereotype.

@Thomas: I couldn’t agree more with your post #69. But hey, the man likes ranting and swearing and wants to change the world to make it a better place..right? riiiight? He’s half a Fin, so he must be right! He KNOWS what he’s talking about… :O

Too often it happens that if you talk bad about America or respond in an defensive way against something an American says (or Brit, Aussie,etc.), they are auto switched to defense-mode. Also they feel awfully offended, while they are the ones that are moaning and bitching and badmouthing in the first place. If you criticize another country, learn to accept criticism against your own country too. I never said Belgium is an utopia, and I’m happy I can move out! I need new things in my life, and new experiences, heck even if it’s more expensive.

David – Ah…the honeymoon. Enjoy it while it lasts.

“I never said Belgium is an utopia, and I’m happy I can move out!” David

I’m sure your parents are happy you’re moving out, too.

Oh, and Thomas, considering that you’re reading my posts so carefully, be sure to take David’s finger out of your mouth.

“@Thomas: I couldn’t agree more with your post #69. But hey, the man likes ranting and swearing and wants to change the world to make it a better place..right? riiiight? He’s half a Fin, so he must be right! He KNOWS what he’s talking about… :O” David

Hey assface, I think I have a little more insight on life in Finland than some Belgian who doesn’t even live here. I have lived here way too long for some waffle-eating, Chimay-sipping, Brussel sprouts-growing fuck face from a country where the most exciting landmark is a statue of a little boy pissing in a fountain.

Heck.

hfb: “I’d love to have a gardner/landscaper, housekeeper and laundress and maybe even a nanny, too.”

Maybe you need a Finnish nanny? That way you could be surrounded by Finns again

Dave the COMPLETE Asshole:

“Oh, and Thomas, considering that you’re reading my posts so carefully, be sure to take David’s finger out of your mouth.”

Phil, your audience is high class!!!! Thank you. Keep it up!

Oh, Thomas, both you and I know my asshole would never be complete without your finger! Kiss kiss!

I mean has anybody taken this blog for real…ever =) Your a fuck face…no you are! and it goes and goes

Even kristian makes some valid points compared to these others!

I think the most alarming message on this blog is that people that are intrested on Finland are these same people writing here. Like it have been clear Finland is no place to move so we get the dumb people or those that have to come here and moan here how horrible it it is….i mean i realy sorry you all =(

Btw somebody wanna buy ipod 5.5G 30g? Getting the ipod touch!
180e

” Like it have been clear Finland is no place to move so we get the dumb people or those that have to come here and moan here how horrible it it is….i mean i realy sorry you all =(”

What the hell are you saying?

JG #76- You didn’t follow the point. My problem is not abuse or anti pro opinions. My problem is that people only ever focus their opinions on The US or Finland. There are more than 2 systems alive and capable of functioning. Whenever people are critical of Finland (which is one course on this site) the response is almost always “Yeah but in America….” or “at least unlike in America we have…..” That is the point. Any critical view is automatically compared to some fictional view of America and I don’t get why.This is what pisses me off.
As for my posts being laced ith abuse I’m sorry to hear you think that way. Admittedly the occaisional piss ant gets the better of me when they constantly refer to stupid Wiki pages rather than listen to people that live or have lived somewhere. Might happen to know the reason for statistics, problems behind them etc. I try my best to bite my tongue but shall try harder in future (for your sake)
Finally as for abusive stereotypes, the Juntti tag was aimed at all those who think dry cleaning can be performed at home. All those born and still living in the forest with their suit tags on their sleeves. Those that think dry cleaning is a luxury foreign to us here in Finland. As I’m not fluent in Swedish, perhaps you can tell me the word for it in Swedish if you fell it’s needed. If not then don’t worry I know get the idea

Speaking of Finnish dry cleaners:

Once I needed a suit cleaned for an important meeting with the senior management of a major foreign multinational.

The afternoon before the early morning meeting I left work early since the dry cleaners closed inconveniently at 17:00.

As I got closer to the dry cleaners, I realize that I would have to hurry.

During the last kilometer or two, I was practically running, like a bloody Lasse Viren.

As I got to the home stretch, about 50 meters from the dry cleaners, I saw the shop attendent recognize me, and she hurried to the front door to bolt it since it was 16:58 and she didn’t want to work one minute longer than necessary even if to help a regular customer

Anyway, she raced me to the door, and bolted it one nanosecond before I got to it.

And turned her back to me, and went to hide in the backroom.

No amount of banging on the door could encourage her to open it.

To avoid Finnish drycleaners, I often filled up one suitcase full of stuff to be drycleaned, and brought it along on a business trip to say, London. I usually stayed in a small nice hotel in London that was in between a drycleaning shop and a Sainsbury where I shopped to fill up my second suitcase full of food etc. to avoid Finnish supermarket prices.

Quote from Dave
“Hey assface, I think I have a little more insight on life in Finland than some Belgian who doesn’t even live here.”

I’m sure you have, but in all those years your manners haven’t improved I must say.

“I have lived here way too long for some waffle-eating, Chimay-sipping, Brussel sprouts-growing fuck face from a country where the most exciting landmark is a statue of a little boy pissing in a fountain.”

Oh my, did you know that there is a part missing in your sentence? There should be something added after the first comma, to make your sentence complete. Now your sentence means you’ve lived too long in Finland for some Belgian guy. What’s your point???

I never tried Chimay btw, nor do I like Brussels sprouts. I do enjoy a nice waffle now and then.

Punter:
Any critical view is automatically compared to some fictional view of America and I don’t get why.

Psst…the title of the blog is “Politics, current events, culture – In Finland & United States”. Of course, we discuss everything under the sun, but can’t really blame people for staying on topic at times.

Oh my goodness, David’s an English grammar instructor from Belgium!

Ooh, wait… No he’s not:

Main Entry: 2waffle
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): waf·fled; waf·fling /-f(&-)li[ng]/
Etymology: frequentative of obsolete woff to yelp, of imitative origin
1 : EQUIVOCATE, VACILLATE ; also : YO-YO, FLIP-FLOP
2 : to talk or write foolishly : BLATHER — Times Literary Supplement>
- waf·fler /-f(&-)l&r/ noun

Dave:

“Oh, Thomas, both you and I know my asshole would never be complete without your finger! Kiss kiss!”

What YOU know, is – thankfully – beyond me. What I know, is that I wouldn’t touch you with a 5 meter pole. The god I don’t believe in only knows what diseases that would bring about. No thanks.

#90:

“What the hell are you saying?”

That people like you – if you’re an import – is the result from having bad apples to choose from. Your postings show that he is correct. Leave, please.

#94 Franklin am I therefore to take it that there are only 2 systems to be discussed on this site? In other words those of us with experience and input of different european, asian, pacific, african etc systems should keep them to ourselves and solely focus on comparing The States and Finland? Sorry Phil, I clearly misunderstood the site rules and will try harder in future to stay “on topic.”
Unbelieveable. I guess that kind of thinking would make it easier for you all though. I mean it would simplify things and reading the posts the pop up here from time to time, it would seem SIMPLE is the key word.

#97 ANSWER THE QUSETION THOMAS

#94 Franklin am I therefore to take it that there are only 2 systems to be discussed on this site?

Hardly, but US-Finland is the focus of the blog.

I think that Kristian, for instance, has done a good job of holding the German and Swiss flags high. Not to mention your Australian contribution.

That is the idea surely. In other words everyone just stop with the standard anti-US comments as a response to a critical comment on Finland.

“That people like you – if you’re an import – is the result from having bad apples to choose from.” Thomas

Looks like you like to waffle as well.

You truly make no sense. You talk about me like I am a car or a bushel of fruit. I am neither. Nor am I “an import.” Furthermore, who the fuck do you think you are to tell me to do anything, much less leave my own country.

Get fisted. Sideways.

Dave:

“Furthermore, who the fuck do you think you are to tell me to do anything, much less leave my own country.”

I’m truly sorry that this country I love has sunken so low, as getting you as a representative. Nevertheless, use your second passport (wasn’t that what you claimed you had) and get the fuck out of here. You will not be lost.

#99 Punter:

I think I did. If you aren’t able to process, sorry for you. But the question is answered imho.

“Nevertheless, use your second passport (wasn’t that what you claimed you had) and get the fuck out of here. You will not be lost.” Douchebag

No, I insist that I stay and help you get out of your sinkhole of a situation here. Were you aware that dry cleaning costs TEN times what it does in the rest of the civilized world?

Now that, as well as you, is about as pathetic as it gets. You haven’t sunken so low as getting me as a representative, you have just inched (oops, metric, sorry!) centimetered yourself up a few notches with my presence.

Speaking of a couple of centimeters, hows that pecker of yours?

You humble opinion Thomas counts for F all until you say clearly one way or the other. How dare you judge “imports” and speak that way to people when you yourself are unable to give a clear yes or no to an equally clear question. It’s not a trick question (or rocket science.)

Punter #106:

What is the QUESTION you want an answer to?

Dave the asswiper:

“Were you aware that dry cleaning costs TEN times what it does in the rest of the civilized world?”

No. Neither did I feel a need to hear that. I’m perfectly fine WITHOUT the knowledge. And I feel perfectly civilised even though I might have lived my whole fucking life without this immensely important piece of information. Now that you’ve made it clear, please leave. Asshole.

“Speaking of a couple of centimeters, hows that pecker of yours?”

Why are you so interested? And millimeters are probably your right size.

To the person who wrote 108 (who explained his dink is merely millimeters in size (by the way I think I keep getting emails intended for you, it’s all about penis size):

No.

This has to be the most homoerotic flame war in some time. First you were sticking your fingers in each others’ orifices, now you’re comparing your dicks.

Gotta have some fun. Life isn’t all laundry.

Don’t worry Dave. I’m sure in Thomas’ world our dick sizes would be worthwhile public knowledge. Seen as in the national interest. Just like our other personnal information (as long as it doesn’t involve assisting former Eastern bloc States)

Just think of Iltalehti/Sanomat. “Mr Celeblainen earnt €150000, paid €72000, capital €1,2 mill’ tax bill of €32000 and dick remains a below average 15.5 cm……”

Thomas’ “answers” to the topic of this blog entry (but they weren’t really answers, they were more personal attacks on my views, which started off higher up on the comments as quite legitimate and coherent) started off as basically:

1) that I don’t have the right to complain in general
2) that foreigners complain too much
3) that government workers being jerks to me (or anyone else) is impossible
4) that there’s nothing wrong with meatballs and mashed potatoes
5) that he is shy about his penis size
6) that he wants me to leave the country despite the fact that I am a Finnish citizen but complain too much on an internet comment board
7) that he is shy about his penis size

Luckily we have him here to set us straight.

@95: Omg Dave, you really are stupid you know? You said waffle-eater you dumb ass moron. You never even referred to “waffling”. Having a conversation with you is like talking to a monkey, he (you in this case) sniffs his finger he just pulled out of his ass and looks at you like a tard. You make my day man, you really do.

#114 Was that meant to be TURD? (How’s the banana?)

“You make my day man, you really do.” David

Then your days must be pretty boring.

Maybe the dry cleaning pricing is like in Rautia or in a suq in an Arabic county. You have to bargain the price down of each individual item you buy, and the shelf prices are about 100-200% overmarked.

Punter: #114 Was that meant to be TURD? (How’s the banana?)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tard

(How’s the banana?)

Maybe the dry cleaning pricing is like in Rautia or in a suq in an Arabic county. You have to bargain the price down of each individual item you buy, and the shelf prices are about 100-200% overmarked.

A more on-topic comparison would be a Penfold’s Grange at an Australian wine retailer.

#32: Nice to see how one U.S. dollar is approximately equivalent to a Finnish euro. The difference ($0.38 per dollar) is taxation and economic inefficiency overhead.

Grate blog,, really fun to read.
1. Both finns and americans are dumbasses and junttis.
We both eat crap food and a lot of it. We dress bad, yes americans also dresses bad, i talk about sneakers with suits and stuff. Yes many americans do wear ties and suites, but the quality sucks, just like in Finland he he .

Ok, follow me in to an almost perfect finnish day dream.

Dry ceaning for a suite costs eur 3.50, and you can pick it up the same day.
Going out eating is affordable and you never have to consider weather to go or not, since your income tax is only 24%, no matter how much you earn.

We have no coorporate tax, and having a company car is free for the employee , and the company only has to pay tax about 100 eur per car/ month.
There is no car tax to talk of so you can buy a nice car if you like.

Shopping is quite cheap if you compare to finland specially if you like meat and beer.
Medicare is for free, and even private doctors and dentists are quite cheap.
You can watch finnish TV for free, no TV licens needed.

We dont have 40-50 % of the workforce working for the goverment.

Welcome to Estonia,, also the women are much more beautiful.
I have no plans of coming back to Finland as long as its run buy people mostly from the country side, with no vision or understandig that they country will be forced to change a lot in the near future or, close down totally…

funny read

I agree that everything costs too much in finland, salaries are too low & taxes too high compared with what we get back (medicore healt care etc.)

I’s love to take all my dirty clothes to drycleaner and i bet every other finn just would love to do that but we as a nation are too poor to do nice things like that

Why waste your time with the Finns??
Don’t you realize by now that Finns do not bathe daily, do not change their clothes often, and will actually wear a suit a million times before cleraning it.

Don’t you notice clothes “being aired” in Finnish balconies?? GET THE POINT: THE BARBARIANS DO NOT BATHE AND WEAR CLEAN CLOTHES. THEY ARE SO CIVILIZED!!! LOL

Hi! Nice site you got there!

It is a good informative post. I heard that Finland is good for men suits. Thanks for sharing such a nice information with us. 

Table Cloths