Ah the welfare state at its best.

Guess what , no market forces, hick, hick, say money, to drive to a better system. You all are fracked.

Sorry nothing to do with doctors and hospitals. But the readers were promised more about education. May I offer a contribution ?

- Liberté, égalité, ancienneté. Why have an innovative school when you can have one shackled by a union contract instead? In the Columbus (Ohio) school district, a French-immersion school is about to get less immersive, thanks to union-enforced transfer rules that are forcing unqualified teachers on the school. As The Columbus Dispatch puts it, “parents are justifiably upset by the news that four teachers assigned to the school for the coming academic year don’t speak French.” Unfortunately for the students, “the teachers’ contract requires that any vacancies be offered first to teachers who were laid off,” even if they’re not qualified to provide an immersive language experience.-

Sorry Phil but surely there are no surprises there?

This was a problem back in 2000. I took a friend there and waited three hours. At least the waiting area had a TV.

Two of us got an interesting demonstration of how linked everything is. When the ‘victim’ gave his identity number, the receptionist responded with his name.

The visit should have cost him 50 Marks (About $10), but he never got a bill.

We have same problem in Tampere. My friend is a doctor and sometimes covers the emergency room out of hours. No one wants to work there if they can help it as it very stressful. IMO this is due to the number of alcohol related incidences, and also patients who, quite honestly, could wait until Monday morning. Some of the stories I’ve heard really make me think about private insurance…

I think Kathryn is right, a lot of people who go to the Emergency jour hospital departments really shouldn’t be there and should be at their health station during normal times.

“Old man dies of cancer in Finland. Stop. National health clearly failing. Stop. Must privatise EVERYTHING, and NOW”. Stop.

I spent a good 10 hours at Malmi with an ankle broken in 3 places waiting to be seen. They just put my foot up on an old laundry bin and let me writhe in pain for hours….It really sucked

Yes there has to be some serious mismanagement for the doctors to speak publicly against their employer like this. Hopefully this leads to a change.

My wife had to wait about 3 hours here to get hooked up to a cortisone machine because of a bad asthma attack. Only one doctor, but a lot of nurses standing around and talking.

More doctors may or may not help. I think the solution lies in better training, leeway (for decision making) and pay for nurses. I know two British nurses who are not real happy with the situation for nurses in Finland.

Phuk.. 14 hours? What about treatment of foreigners?? Is it the same situation with Dentists? While I have been lucky to never need treatment in Finland, I wonder how that works?
a 24 hour wait? Guess I had better fix that sensitive tooth (Most likely a crown) before my trip next week. I can just see driving all around Helsinki in a cab writhing in pain looking for a dentist.

Several months ago, I was about a block from Maria’s hospital. On a busy street, I saw a lady faint.

I helped her away from the path of the moving traffic, and I suggested that she go to the nearby Maria hospital.

She said that she was just discharged from there, and refused to consider going back there.

I could not understand why, since she collapsed on the street.

She slowly walked away, still abit wobbly, and I followed her until she entered a busy and crowded area where others could help if she fell again.

I really wondered why she refused to go back to that hospital.

Now, I guess I know.

Last spring HUS published — several times — a job opening ad in the Helsingin Sanomat, listing a full page of open positions. They probably have a hard time hiring any professionals, nurses or doctors.

#11

Yes of course the situation in one hospitals one emmergency room reflects the state of the whole of public healthcare in Finland including dentists.

This is a real problem, but a solvable problem.
On the other hand I think if would be completely the intolerable the market would have spoken and there’d be much more private healthcare in Finland.

Just wait until the pensioners really start to put a strain on the system in the next few years…few will be happy at that point to simply shrug and say its just a staffing problem or a few ER frequent flyers bunging up the system. I suppose it is only human nature to wait until the roof develops a major leak before it becomes worthy of replacement instead of fixing it when you notice the shingles are loose and falling off.

And anyone in medicine who complains about the stress or the workload should really find a more suitable career. Even in the best of times, medicine ain’t relaxing, especially the ER. Duh.

There is no political capital to be gained by maintaining existing public systems, such as health care, so politicians let them rot. When they rot they become problems, and politicians get nice soundbites in evening news by commenting on the situation…

Whereas in a private system it is to the owners’ benefit to maintain systems so that they produce services as efficiently as possible.

Personal experiences:
Breast biopsy
Public clinic: waiting time 3 weeks.
Private clinic: waiting time 3 days.

Dental examination (preventive care beats root canal any time of the day)
Public service: waiting time 9 months to forever.
Private clinic: waiting time 3 days.

The public “service” generates nothing but negatives for me, since in addition to not getting any service I feel like a patsy since I’ve already been forced to pay for the public service.

“And anyone in medicine who complains about the stress or the workload should really find a more suitable career. Even in the best of times, medicine ain’t relaxing, especially the ER. Duh.”

And who are you to say when someone else’s workload is too much? Doctors are tired of this “kutsumusammatti” 70h/week bullshit. They have families and kids too. That is propably the biggest reason why many doctors see the private sector as a good alternative: you can influence your own workload and hours.

My son picked up a case of strep as an infant in Finland. Strep is rare in infants and can be deadly if not treated quickly and properly. The first emergancy room (we didn’t know what he had at the time) said they were to busy and offered my wife and son a FREE taxi ride home.

How thoughtful.

The second emergancy room check him out because my wife stubbornly insisted that they do so. He only had to wait several hours with a high fever. They didn’t bother to take his temp or give fever reducing medicine. When they diagnosed strep they perscribed antibiotics and sent him home. Several days later he was fine and we were happy. We didn’t find out until our daughter had strep in the States as an infant that the hospital in Finland had made many risky decisions based on statitics, which saved them a lot of money but put my son’s life at risk.

When my daughter had strep as an infant we were very poor and were on government insurance in the US(it does exist). We brought her to the emergancy room where they took her temp immeadiatly and shortly thereafter brought her back and started running tests. When strep was diagnosed she was hooked up to an IV and stayed in the hospital for a week. The infection was gone after a few days but she stayed in the hospital to be monitered due to the life threatening danger strep can be for an infant. The government paid the $8,500 dollar bill.

When we told the docters how our son’s strep had been treated in Finland they could not believe it. Essentially his life was put at risk because of the statistical success rate of the antibotic which is something like 90% in these situations. The Finnish doctors did not inform us of the risks of strep to the infant nor that there may be a chance that the antibiotic may not perform it’s job. They said, “Give him this and he’ll be fine.”

An ethical violation of this magnatude would be grounds for a lawsuit in the US.

I don’t think the Finnish docters where bad people. They were great people, but they are underpaid, under educated, overworked, not liable for careless or intentional mistakes, and work in a system where taking chances to keep costs down is encouraged.

when reading that there is a lack of teathers, nurses and doctors in public places and hear on the other hand that unemployment is very low and inflation is picking up..it’s quite disturbing…for the medium to long term stability of the finnish economy and its sustainability.

I guess we need to refocus the resources and put them where they should be..stop redirecting them toward IT or Construction but lets create and give more incentives to the medical and social group as in a few years time they will be more than needed..

“more incentives to the medical and social group”

What the FRAK, give to the groups that have low GDP output?

No, lets invest were the economy grows, the private sector, but cutting taxes.

#18- “but they are underpaid, under educated, overworked, not liable for careless or intentional mistakes, and work in a system where taking chances to keep costs down is encouraged.”

Ah, the essentials of the public system. You’ve hit the nail on the head.