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I'm an American who's been living in Finland for five years. I started this blog to address some of the political, cultural, and current event issues in Finland and the United States. I am a strong advocate of liberty, individuality, equality, and tolerance. Enjoy!

25.8.2007

Finnish boy fined for YouTube video

Filed under: Uncategorized — Phil @ 7:13 pm

Wow this punishment seems rough, fining forcing a 15 year old kid to pay $4,220 (I should say, ‘fining the kid’s parents’) for jokingly calling his teacher “a lunatic singing at the karaoke of the mental hospital” on YouTube. I sometimes question Finland’s beliefs in free speech…

A 15-year-old schoolboy was fined Friday for posting a video on YouTube showing a karaoke performance of his teacher and for claiming she was a lunatic.

In the first case of its kind in Finland, Nurmes District Court found Toni Vesikko guilty of intentional defamation and fined him 90 euros, or about $120. He also was ordered to pay 800 euros ($1,000) in damages for “causing harm and suffering” and 2,200 euros ($3,000) in court costs.

Vesikko, who took the video of his teacher singing karaoke at a school party on April 30, admitted posting the video on the popular video-sharing site YouTube a day later. He said he did it as a prank and had not intended to insult the teacher.

But the court said Vesikko’s actions “falsified facts” — about the institution and the teacher’s mental state — and caused her to suffer anxiety, depression and insomnia. The video was watched more than 600 times before Vesikko took it off Google Inc.’s YouTube on May 7 on the orders of the principal of the school, near Lieksa, 330 miles from Helsinki.

The video, which Vesikko called in English “Karaoke of the mental hospital,” named the teacher and said she was “a lunatic singing at the karaoke of the mental hospital.”

The Nurmes court found that the video had become “very well known and public” after its release, both in school and regionally, and could be accessed internationally. It said the video added anguish for the teacher, who had already been teased by pupils for about two years, according to her own account.

66 Comments »

  1. The boy was fined 90 euros, not 4000 dollars. The fine is a punishment and is generally commensurate with the severity of the crime, the damage compensation compensates damage, and is not (usually) related to the severity of the crime.

    Comment by Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 8:01 pm

  2. When I first heard of this case I thought the teacher had no case. I would have thought apologizing and taking the video off the net were enough but guess not. And I’m sure the kid had to do a couple of visits to the principal’s office too. Definitely sounds like the teacher is a sensitive soul. Nevertheless, this could be one of those warning cases for future pranksters that it’s not worth the laughs.

    Comment by Pave — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 8:48 pm

  3. The punishment seems very harsh to me. Thousands in damages and court costs??? I’d say the courts got a bit carried-away on this one.

    Comment by Kristian — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 9:01 pm

  4. If she had been ‘teased’ for two years by the pupils, karaoke was a REALLY bad move.

    Comment by aet75 — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 9:20 pm

  5. Serves him right. Free speech does not mean that you may spread lies about other people. Some people call it a ‘joke’, but aren’t jokes supposed to be funny?

    Comment by Ano Nymous — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 9:24 pm

  6. Well, Ano Nymous, since when did it become necessary to sue people for acting like a jerk? That’s not what the justice system is for. That teacher was no public figure or celebrity… how many of those who viewed the clip even remember it now? The lawsuit just made her appear even more pathetic. If you’re going to survive teaching teenagers, grow a skin for godssakes!

    Comment by aet75 — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 9:41 pm

  7. The things we did to our teachers, I probably would serve hard time if I went to school now…

    Comment by aet75 — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 9:44 pm

  8. And I would’ve been sent to the gallows. Oh the pigs head in the bag…………

    Comment by Punter — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 10:39 pm

  9. The things our teachers did to us… I should probably be in some sort of institution, considering. If only I had youtube when I was in 5th grade in the 70’s.

    Comment by dave the grave — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 10:39 pm

  10. Welcome USA. Now were getting there. Sue and get compensation. When will we have our first MsDonalds coffee mug experience.

    Comment by Thomas — Sat, Aug 25th, 2007 @ 11:29 pm

  11. The Mccoffee thing has really been blown out of all proportion. The damages were imposed because of a blatant disregard for the safety of the customers (they superheated the coffee to increase the amount of of coffee extract). And the punitive damages were later reduced to about 900k from the original 1,4 M.

    Comment by aet75 — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 12:23 am

  12. #1. You missed a paragraph.

    #11. Yeah it was. I even admit to talking shit about that McDonalds case until someone set me straight about it. When I finally heard the facts, foot in mouth.

    I remember the days of school where we used to draw pictures of teachers during class, making fun of them and passing it around the class. When we got caught we got sent to the principal’s office. Now people are so pussified that they have to sue. Ludicrous. I expect this behavior from Americans, but not Finns. It won’t be long before her coworkers “force her” to look for a job elsewhere.

    Comment by gopha — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 1:36 am

  13. I say that little butt head should have gotten his ass kicked… i would have sued the parents for more. Want to publicly humiliate someone…god, pay the price you little scum bag…hahahaha

    Comment by lingo — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 3:36 am

  14. I’ve never understood where in the US or Finnish Constitution it says that someone has the right to not be offended. As a teacher myself, I can’t imagine going to court over this. When I first read the headline I thought the teacher was going to claim copyright infringement…

    Comment by dhen — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 4:16 am

  15. So throwing pigs eyes, into the teachers tea, was just the little prank, compared to the lacy underware filled box she got. (Red face the brightness of a stop light).

    Darn, school was fun.

    Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission” — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 5:31 am

  16. Yeah, what i used to do to my teachers.. i probably gave some heart attacks.. oh the fun… that Finnish teacher’s a wimp. Get a sense of humour or get out.

    Comment by Mo — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 6:48 am

  17. This is exactly what you get when you remove teachers any real means of disciplining students or controlling the classroom.
    Now I’d imagine the court verdict has a lot to do with undermining authority which teachers (at least on that level) are.

    And what comes to free speech I can just imagine what would happen if I’d say in a US school “I think those 9/11 attacks were a pretty good slap against the face of this dumb, ignorant and arrogant nation of fat stupid children of sexually repressed europeans. But hey at least there’s now 3000 less dumb fuckers floating around.”

    However defamation is a different thing and it is forbidden to post ridiculing imagery of other people. Also the kid had the option of just taking the damn thing down before the legal process, so he must be pretty dense too.

    Comment by philtard — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 8:04 am

  18. aet75: Since when do people who stand up for themselves seem pathetic?
    The line has to be drawn somewhere, and, surprise surprise, the justice system is there so that people who break the law can be punished without resorting to the stone age methods some people here seem to support.

    Comment by Ano Nymous — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 10:25 am

  19. Why did the pigs head in the bag? Anyway, Punter, you forgot the part where you tell that the Finns can’t think out of the box. You know, the part that you almost always so originally include into your posts. And, there wasn’t a single insult either. And where is hfb explaining why we Finns are morons, so dangerous in traffic, for example? (You know, making Finland about the safest in the world.) Yes, yes, I need her to tell me daily that there’s something wrong with my brain.

    Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 10:27 am

  20. You meam like an Anonymous quote saying absolutely nothing about the subject just name calling and whining about other posts? Now that is what I call predictable. More so than my “Finns in a box”, hfb “Finns are morons” or hell even more than Kristians “we should move to Switzerland” (sorry mate). People like you make my day because whenever I find myself questioning the box theory, all I have to do is rely on you to reinforce it.

    Comment by Punter — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 10:56 am

  21. “However defamation is a different thing and it is forbidden to post ridiculing…” philtard

    So in your estimation it is not okay to put a joke headline on a teacher singing karaoke (probably poorly) but it is okay to simultaneously insult the author of this blog (phil) and the mentally and physically developmentally disabled (’tards… retards, I assume you mean).

    Let me just get this out: LOL.

    Comment by dave the grave — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 11:12 am

  22. Thanks for the standard Finn-bashing part, I was getting worried. But I really can’t be totally satisfied until you write something about the nanny state, failing economy, and good ol’ Auystralia, the land of perfection ;-) And why did the pigs head in the bag and not box.

    Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 11:16 am

  23. The pigs head was in a bag because that is the way I collected from the butcher in the morning. The rest you need not know.
    As for the land of perfection, nah far from it. Just parts of it that Finland could learn from and vise versa.

    Comment by Punter — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 11:37 am

  24. Way back at school my swedish teacher told me and a friend in class that we suffer from creeping maddness. At that time we just shrugged but probably now the teacher would face some diciplinary action.

    I suspect this teacher has listened too closely to all the well-meaning advice about fostering the students’ self image and has not applied the basic truth that respect grows on strength. If these kids have been harrassing her for two years, she definitely did the right thing, and should have shown her strength even earlier.

    Comment by Mara — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 12:02 pm

  25. How is posting on YouTube something derogatory about a teacher different from drawing it on the chalkboard or on a note that is passed around the class?

    No one outside the teacher’s classroom would care one way or the other whether or not she really was from a mental institution.

    Comment by dave the grave — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 12:06 pm

  26. As for the land of perfection, nah far from it.

    BS. Australians think that they country is, if not perfect, at least the best in the world. You’re clearly not an exception. A little “outside the box” thinking wouldn’t hurt you Aussies.

    Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 12:10 pm

  27. dave the grave:
    So in your estimation it is not okay to put a joke headline on a teacher singing karaoke (probably poorly) but it is okay to simultaneously insult the author of this blog (phil)

    There is a difference. Everyone can judge for themselves whether it’s Phil or the guy who insults him that is the moron here. A more fitting analogy would be that someone put up a page stating for a fact that Phil was once committed to a mental asylum. The former is lack of manners, the latter is libel.

    Comment by mh — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 12:25 pm

  28. @19: If it’s such a fucking pain to read this blog why do it? And if you have absolutely no input, why the fuck post a comment?

    Some have commended the teacher for standing up for herself and so on, but really, is the courtroom the place to solve her professional and emotional problems? And the material posted on YouTube was not produced for the purpose of defamation etc., it was a document of the teacher making an ass of herself. If you’re stupid enough to embarrass yourself and twat enough to be unable to live with it, shame on you. I bet she was an only child.

    Comment by aet75 — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 12:51 pm

  29. #26- You have issues. Did an Austalian steal your girl/boyfriend?? You base your assumption on what exactly? Finally, have you even visited the place? We refer to Australia as “The Lucky Country” and that, for many of our residents is not bragging, simply the truth.

    Comment by Punter — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 1:03 pm

  30. I think the Fin teacher did think out side the box…did the the most American thing a European can do…Sue the shit out of that scumbag and his trailer trash parents. I say the teacher and the Finnish court did think outside the “closed Finnish box”…they did it the American way. and got paid !!!
    I trust she may have been part American citizen and so was the judge…hahah

    Hyvä Suomi….hahahaha little bastard

    Comment by lingo — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 1:19 pm

  31. Who’s saying it’s a pain read this blog? Hell, so far I’ve learned that Finland has one of the safest traffics in the world and that Aussies are ridiculously proud of their country and can’t accept criticism while Finns are only moderately proud.
    www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/06/060301.nationalpride.pdf

    Who could have believed? Ask any Finn and he tells you how awful the traffic is and to what ridiculous extents the national pride sometimes reaches. Myth busting is fun!

    OK, let’s say something about the issue at hand too. Hmmm. Phil apparently thinks that personal insults must be accepted in the name of freedom. That fucking idiot.

    Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 1:35 pm

  32. http://www.thoseshirts.com/tshirts.html

    Comment by lingo — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 1:39 pm

  33. Even the great US of A has laws against libel and slander. Same as yelling “fire” in a crowded theater is not free speech.

    Also, bulk of the costs were court costs, not the actual fine.

    Comment by Zarr — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 1:48 pm

  34. @28: Boy, are you missing the point here! It’s not as much about the video itself as it is about claiming (jokingly or not) the teacher is a mental patient. If the kid had just posted the video with a comment along the lines of “This is my teacher singing, not very good is she?” it would have been (just about) OK, if not exactly proper. Someone needed to teach this kid a lesson, he’ll be better off for it.

    Comment by Ano Nymous — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 1:54 pm

  35. Here’s what Reporters Without Borders has to say among other things about Australia’s press freedom.

    “The John Howard government has continued to beef up its arsenal of anti-terror laws, some of which represent a threat to journalists’ capacity to protect their sources of information and to freedom of expression.”

    “Another setback in 2006 was the High Court’s refusal in September to allow a journalist access to documents on the Australian government’s tax policy.”

    And this is what they had to say about the violations in Finland: “”.

    A joke, surely. Anyways, next years report will condemn the fact that you can’t libel people in public here in this “Finland”.

    Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 2:33 pm

  36. 120+1000+3000=4120, not 4220.

    And you can’t really count the court costs as a punishment.

    Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 3:07 pm

  37. #28
    I suspect this case was brought to court at least partly because there must have been similar incidents before and there was a need for official clarification. Usually it takes many incidents before someone makes a legal case. And I bet the teacher has tried some less severe ways to communicate the code of good conduct to the kid.

    I do not think that withdrawing from any self-exposing activities with the kids in fear of more insults and meekly smiling at the insult as “Oh, no problem, I can take this shit, I’m a trooper” sends helps her to instill any knowledge or good social skills into the minds of her students.

    So I do not see the teacher solving her “emotional problems” in the court. Rather, it seems she was solving a continuous work problem that the official managerial advise had not given her the means to
    solve any other way.

    Her choice was to go by the book, while others would have preferred her to get to the kid in a more discreet, traditional way. The same discreet, traditional way that for decades has been an active ingredient in producing the no-social-skills drunks to the streets for our saturday night entertainment. The fact that it actually is the parents that need to pay this fine may mean a start of a beautiful phase in the their parent-kid relationship.

    Comment by Mara — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 3:11 pm

  38. If freedom of speech means the freedom to defame, then thank god your freedom of speech doesn’t exist.

    And at least try to get the numbers right. Since when have damages and court costs constituted a fine.

    Comment by Rich — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 8:02 pm

  39. Seriously Anonymous. Did an Aussie tie you up, bend you over and have his way with you? This was a post about a Finn posting something on YouTube and the result of his actions. I mention an old school prank involving an anonymous school teacher in the early 80’s and a pigs head. From there you start national and personal insults and we end up with Reporters without borders and their opinion on The Howard Government V The Finnish Govt. You really are a strange one. Did they forget the vaso? Did they not give you their number? Whatever happend, you still haven’t responded to my question of why the hang up? What is your experience with Australia? I don’t mind people being critical of Australia but for Gods sake, have some idea of what you’re talking about. I’ve lived here for 14,5 years and so I’ve got a pretty good idea of what I’m talking about. They are only my views and opinions, not right or wrong, just opinions. At least I have some foundation for these opinions. Before you open your mouth and spill more crap, at least get a clue what you’re talking about.

    Comment by Punter — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 8:11 pm

  40. Point taken, by “fine” I meant the amount of money the kid or his parents have to pay.

    Comment by Mara — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 8:13 pm

  41. People ought to be fined for singing shit karaoke.

    Comment by Hank W. — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 10:59 pm

  42. Well, I’m all for teachers suing the fuck out of punk kids who think they can’t be touched. I’m a U.S. teacher, and the amount of harassment, abuse, threats, and general disrespect we put up with makes being a jail guard seem like a picnic. Especially the inner city. Anyone who calls teachers “twats” for working in places like Compton better fucking put on a steel pot and flak vest before they open their diarrhea-laden mouths.

    Comment by AmeriikanEnkeli — Sun, Aug 26th, 2007 @ 11:53 pm

  43. Mara wrote: “I do not think that withdrawing from any self-exposing activities with the kids in fear of more insults and meekly smiling at the insult as “Oh, no problem, I can take this shit, I’m a trooper” sends helps her to instill any knowledge or good social skills into the minds of her students.”

    Oh come on. Teaching teenagers is a tough job, it takes strong character. I you can’t handle the pupils without suing them, you’re in the wrong line of work. It’s that simple. I bet she’ll come to regret going to court sooner than later, the kids will never let her forget about it. That kind of action is a sing of insecurity, and don’t they know it. It’s like blood in the water and sharks.

    By your thinking, the parents should sue the kid for damages.

    Comment by aet75 — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 12:16 am

  44. What I have heard from a couple of teachers, some parents just do not get it. It is always the fault of the teacher, their little “angel” i.e. spoiled not-anymore-so-little shit could never have done this or that blah blah blah. It is really good thing this little punk did get what he really deserved.

    Comment by tim73 — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 12:41 am

  45. 29 - Lucky country for free aussies -
    Northern Territory in Australia is now introducing radical measures, including proof of identity for anyone buying even a single can of beer!!

    An electronic identification system in every liquor outlet will be linked to a Government database that records a buyer’s daily alcohol purchases and any existing court orders.

    The Minister said “It’s a linked ID system that would identify those with prohibition orders but there is the capacity also there to regulate product that people could get per day”.

    “There are some favourite products, such as cask wine, and I think that would be worthy of consideration - an amount per person per day. Such a linked ID system could help enforce that.”

    Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 3:48 am

  46. And why? Do you even know The Northern Territory and it’s problems? WTF is your point anyway and what has it got to do with YouTUbe and the Finnish lad?
    Still the lucky country and the majority of austrlians support this measeure fool.

    Comment by Punter — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 9:43 am

  47. @42: Well Nurmes (or whatever this place was) is hardly Compton… twat.

    Comment by aet75 — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 11:33 am

  48. 46. hoho - lucky! You’d be moaning like a headless pig in a bag if the Finnish Government started forcing you to show ID when buying a beer and linking your alcohol purchases to their database.

    Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 3:47 pm

  49. 48: Nanny state measures are only bad when implemented in evil socialist Finland. If the majority of Finns support them, it just proves how brainwashed they are. Whereas in Oz…pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

    This Punter dude is even better than winnie.

    Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 7:01 pm

  50. Not to let our cranky friend Punter dominate the conversation, I am a little torn in two regarding this. Of course the teacher seems like an attention-seeking, thin-skinned primadonna. WTF does she think she’s doing singing karaoke at a school party if she can’t handle students making fun of her?

    On the other hand, having some teaching experience myself, it is only healthy to let those young punks know you can’t get away with everything, especially as this involves the internet whose superficial pseudo-anonymity seems to give stupid people a licence to do anything.

    Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 7:11 pm

  51. #43: By your thinking, the parents should sue the kid for damages.

    By my thinking, the parents should realize that it is their job to teach the kid right from wrong. The kid is a minor, so the parents have the responsibility — and the opportunity — to do so for a couple more years.

    Maybe the parents learn something that they would not have learnt from yet another teacher’s note sent to home. Maybe they “sue” the kid at home by withholding weekly allowance for two months. Maybe they first have a heated and after that a real discussion with the kid. Maybe feedback from actions in a form both the parents and the kid consider real and meaningful helps them grow an appreciation for themselves and the rest of the human beings. All that for a measly couple thousand euros! Much cheaper than long term psychotherapy! ;-)

    Comment by Mara — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 7:41 pm

  52. Lucky indeed. Ask the immigrants that have left their war torn homelands and found peace and harmony. Have had the chance to rebuild damaged lives and raise their families in a peaceful and wealthy land that is for the most part understanding and compassionate towards all people.
    As for your lack of understanding of the alcohol situation in NT, really, find out something about a topic before you open your trap. By the way, it’s not only “plonk” being controlled up there now but of course I guess you knew that already and the reasons behind this new law.
    I guess I could turn around and say at least they have the balls to try something, not like here where we just sit back and accept the situation as “a national trait.”

    Comment by Punter — Mon, Aug 27th, 2007 @ 11:08 pm

  53. 52. Lucky for some maybe! Punter now tell us you believe in terra nullius and that the Aborigine has had it lucky too.

    Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Aug 28th, 2007 @ 2:45 am

  54. The aboriginie has had it far luckier than many around the world. A perfect situation for them now and in the past? Not really but anyway, a hell of a lot better than many other minorities have had it around the world.
    Rather than focus on the Aboriginies negatively, perhaps a look at the countless that live quite well even by Finnish standards but no, that would be too boring and not sensationalist enough.
    So overall still lucky? Yep. We’ve even got law abiding, tax paying, union represented hookers that don’t need to hide.

    Comment by Punter — Tue, Aug 28th, 2007 @ 7:19 am

  55. do some reading first and then start to talk to me. By the way, inAustralia, the people are known as Indigenous Australians or dually as a group they’re Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. Stop being so “racist” and don’t refer to them as The Aboriginies. Thought you would have known that, must be the education………

    http://www.australian-news.com.au/aborepresent.htm
    http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Aboriginal-children-in-rape-crisis/2006/05/16/1147545272006.html
    http://www.ombudsnet.org/violence/search/closeup.asp?infoID=13773

    Comment by Punter — Tue, Aug 28th, 2007 @ 7:51 am

  56. Oho, the discussion still seems to be going on.

    Anyhow, I’d like to thank anonymous, anonymous and the third one too (anonymous) and, as always, Freeriding Frankling for the unfaltering brotherhood in arms against the violators!

    Comment by any animus — Tue, Aug 28th, 2007 @ 12:49 pm

  57. @55 Thanks for the links Punter. Funny how none of them described Aboriginals as “Indigenous Australians” - did you read your own references? As for the “racist” use of the term Aboriginies, isn’t that the term you use yourself in #54?

    You suggest “perhaps a look at the countless that live quite well even by Finnish standards”, well the links you gave don’t paint a very rosy picture of the high standard of living the countless enjoy. In fact the articles you present tell quite a horror story for these people. Maybe you could give some links that show how well off they must be.

    That anti-left wing site had some interesting stuff including - “Australia must have some of the unhealthiest, accident-prone and mentally impaired people in the world, according to the number of people on disability support pensions.” Sounds pretty lucky eh?

    Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Aug 28th, 2007 @ 2:23 pm

  58. Well look it up yourself or is that beyond your capabilities? As for anti-left wing, 2 of the links were news site while the 3rd was from a childrens rights site. Most of those you describe are the people we”re trying to protect from themselves ie the ban on porn, alcohol, direct welfare payments etc. Damned for teying and damned if you don’t but I wouldn’t expect some Finnish Juntti to even begin to understand these problems. Just listen to what the teacher says and feel safe that you now it all.

    Comment by Punter — Tue, Aug 28th, 2007 @ 2:43 pm

  59. um , well if you look those links don’t use “indigenous australians”, they use aboriginal.
    it sure looks like those white aussies treat the people who were there before them pretty badly still these days , there’s “A plan to force schoolchildren into work gangs and make them pick up rubbish until they are visibly tired has caused outrage in a Central Australian Aboriginal community.” WHAT?
    Finnish kids wouldn’t consider that treatment very lucky.

    Comment by sjt — Wed, Aug 29th, 2007 @ 2:21 am

  60. Nor would they call being raped and abused by their drunken relations very lucky but hey, that’s what happened after control was taken out of govt hands and given back to the tribal elders. Communities have collapsed and now drastic measures are needed to try and rebuild them.
    Overall I would say the treatment today is pretty good and improving although how far it should improve is still being debated.

    Comment by Punter — Wed, Aug 29th, 2007 @ 9:57 am

  61. Amazing how 30 years ago teachers ruled the roost, now kids rule and parents are their backup.These little arsehole kids are in for a shock when they leave school and get a job.

    Comment by se — Fri, Aug 31st, 2007 @ 4:43 pm

  62. Oxford dictionary

    Punter aka Cunter = Hypocrite

    Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Sep 1st, 2007 @ 12:04 pm

  63. @61: And when they’re older, they’ll say the exact same thing about their own kids’ generation.

    @62: How clever… I really don’t understand why he bothers.

    Comment by aet75 — Sat, Sep 1st, 2007 @ 4:07 pm

  64. #62- You’re a true genius

    Comment by Punter — Mon, Sep 3rd, 2007 @ 10:24 pm

  65. #64- You’re a true moron

    Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Sep 8th, 2007 @ 1:10 pm

  66. The child was right and proven to be so by the teacher’s complaint. The teacher is an asshole and will be known as such forever. Good.

    Comment by A Teacher — Thu, Sep 20th, 2007 @ 7:43 pm

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