LOL, cause you know us immigrants will break into your apartment and steal your precious Eurovision cd’s.

Yesh.

I think people don’t want druggies around them because the reputation of drug addicts. I grew up in a neighboorhood that car radios and tvs would be stolen for one more drug hit.

This is where could go ask for some american help.
Any tips on how to build gated elite communities and stuffing all the poor, ethnic, druggie, insane and criminal people in some rotting ghettos without any future Phil? Because you american people really have it down on that issue.

As for myself I find it odd that alcoholics are shunned, after all in all probability nearly every apartment building/neighbourhood will have several with our demographics. Drug-users on the other hand are only visible in the car-theft/break-in sector, and probably don’t do that where they actually live.

Immigrants now that is a bit harder one, since the prevalent multicultural fanatism refuses to believe that there anything but hard-working, economically invaluable immigrants who perfectly integrate to our society.

But since I’m an evil fascist I dare say the people polled probably meant the distinctively darker-skinned immigrants, whose integration to the mainstream culture often limits to the railway-station mcdonalds. I don’t blame them, it can be hard to integrate when you’re told your culture is a richness to us and you yourself an invaluable economic resource(only that they mean the culture with the funny hats and dances, and not the culture with honor-killings and gangrape).

But there’s actually an answer to this question to be found in the old finnish villages. It’s not in many places where houses instead of huddling built as far away as possible from others, preferrably with some trees covering any possible view to one another.
Most people in finland are not from and not happy in truly urban settings and would rather live without any human beings in eye-distance.

I dont wonder to hear that in Finland,most of Finns are racists.I lived in Finland and said that according to the experience.

#2 philtard

This is where could go ask for some american help.
Any tips on how to build gated elite communities and stuffing all the poor, ethnic, druggie, insane and criminal people in some rotting ghettos without any future Phil? Because you american people really have it down on that issue
__________________________
! Hey isn’t your KELA booze check coming this week? Cheers!

Lets ask the EU

Now, The EU taxes at 60% rates, keeping the econemy from working, resulting in a very small middle class, and what one billionare?

Take the USA, where Bill Gates hardly even graduates and has Billions.

Take the USA where the GDP grouth is like 3% higher than the EU, and we did it for what? The last 20 years?

Kinda speeks loud, on how the USA gives everyone the opportunity. they just have to take it.

No EU Snobbish whinning here. We just make Billionares. New Motto, forget the chicken in every pot, its now a Hummer in every driveway.

The EU taxes at 60%, winter? What are you talking about???

That’s like saying North America taxes at xx%. It doesn’t make sense.

#4 Unfortunately I’m studying so I’m not eligible for free booze checks Gotta hop that unemloyment train then I guess.

#7- That unemployment train is waiting for you at the station (with all those foreigners you mentioned.) But don’t worry, it’s not going anywhere yet.

I think this is pretty much no-news. You would get the same kind of results pretty much everywhere in the first world. I’d bet attitudes would be much harder within gated community soccer moms, for example. NIMBYism is rather common attitude. The richer the community, more fascists the attitudes are towards everything else than “our kind” of people. Gates communities are especially “good” at that.

One particular interesting case in Finland is the small town of Sipoo, next to Helsinki: “Big bad people from Helsinki are coming and there will be drunks in your backyard!”. This was/is the rallying cry againsts the overruling decision by Finnish Parliament to attach part of Sipoo countryside to Helsinki in order to build more houses for the people moving here. For decades Sipoo resisted any kind of expansion plans and wanted to keep their duck pond without any regards of what was happening in nearby towns.

#5 – winter:

I will ignore the other drivel, however entertaining it might be. But this:

“Kinda speeks loud, on how the USA gives everyone the opportunity. they just have to take it.”

That was just dumb. I dare you to prove it. One billionaire, who also tried to limit competition illegally. That is not proof. By the way, I think it is excellent that a man does not graduate but goes on to start a company that has given us so many innovative platforms for computing and other products/services. No matter how many of those the company copied from competitors. Back then it was DOS, now it is Internet Explorer.

No matter. Seriously, if you think the US gives everyone the opportunity, ask the people that pray they do not get sick because they do not have insurance, or the ones that do, and keep on working in their 80s just to keep that insurance.
Furthermore, ask the kids that cannot even go to a state college because even the modest fees are too much.
Ask the homeless, the people that have 3 jobs and are still homeless, and the kids that join the army and lose their limbs in Iraq just to get an education or a US passport. (Yes, the US Army recruits immigrants, illegal or not, and gives them citizenships – if they don’t die in some illegal war first)

Herkku, do you really think it’s so fucking hard to earn 120$ in US every month to pay medical insurance(without dental)?

And now tell me how hard is it in Finland to get doctor appointment in “free state terveysasema”?… you must be lucky to wait 2 weeks, coz usually it’s 1 month. Even in Finland I have medical insurance for whole my family.

While US Army recruit immigrants by giving them opportunity to get citizenship and it’s an option for every person – in Finland your only option is a jail.

And it’s not a secret how fast(if not instant) are considered citizen applications of male foreigners in Finland if they can be taken to army.

It would be interesting to know if the USA or European countries have in average more budget deficit to handle per capita. I don’t know the answer. However, it is easy to keep the money printers on high output level to artificially fuel a GDP growth. But the Asians will not buy up all that extra money for ever to make sure their products are purchased overseas. Such an economy reminds me of a body builder on steroids. The muscles look very fake and the steroids eventually cause impotence, liver damage, and cancer. Isn’t that now starting to happen with the dollar slump and the credit-crunch problems that create a horrible housing market situation in the USA? Is the same problem equally widely spread in Europe and does the European economy also look like a body builder on steroids? I doubt it.

“Isn’t that now starting to happen with the dollar slump and the credit-crunch problems that create a horrible housing market situation in the USA? Is the same problem equally widely spread in Europe and does the European economy also look like a body builder on steroids? I doubt it.”

US has two major problems: mammoth trade deficit and budget deficits basically in all levels. Consumer savings rate negative and they are still borrowing heavily. Roughly supersized version of Finland back in 1990, major housing bubble bursting. US banks are facing now major troubles just like ours back then. There are rumours that Citibank is especially in big trouble.

Italy and France are in quite a bad shape (well Italy has been always in BAD SHAPE fiscally , Germany better, Netherlands ok, Scandinavian countries from excellent (Norway with oil profits) to quite good. New EU members somewhere between the point of just after collapse of USSR and maybe France.

#11 – Starky – winter clone: No, I guess it is not so fucking hard. Because I am really really really smart, I have had the opportunity to go to a top private school, private university, my parents are well off and generous, I have many connections in business and would not mind screwing my fellow man. Then I can make the aforementioned $120K. I just have to sell my soul.
But this is not about me or you or Phil or Matti-fucking-Nykänen. It is about the working poor, about the 40 million americans without healthcare and the significant majority of people that do not make that $120K. I would prefer to make $110K or $100K or $70K if I could live in a society that would support them and guarantee a stable socio-econo-political environment for all. I am assuming you don’t. I am also fucking OK with that. Fuck.
As to the waiting times, they may very well be. I still prefer them than having so many people not even get to that care. It is all about how much higher you regard the “I” versus the “We”.
I did not compare the Finnish army to the US one. I also think that the Finnish system is wrong there and I would support changing it. Compulsory service is wrong. I do believe the libertarians in the neighborhood would support that.
However, my comment spoke to the double standard that Americans treat immigrants with: Disparage the purported loss of jobs, while at the same time outsource jobs abroad. Accept cheap immigrant labour in their meat-packing plants, fucking golf courses and McDonald’s so that the cost of business is low, and also admit them into the army so they can take advantage of their economic need. Something’s off here, don’t you think? Oh also, according to Fox, they bring cholera, leprocy and oh so much crime from their god-forsaken foreign lands. Be afraid! Be very afraid!
Also, easy with the fucking profanity, ok?

#12-13 tim73: Good answer, I would also add the insane defense spending that contributes to the US deficit.
Please see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRGfxEqPsHw and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9kXPTwIO08. You tell’em Ben.
Beyond that, Bush and the merry neo-con men claim to be conservatives but spend like a drunken communist finnish sailor. Most of it on earmarks, letting the ultra rich off taxes and on foreign aid to “allies” of convenience. I would prefer to see it spent on schools and healthcare.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the Donkeys are that much better. They also spend on bridges to nowhere, depleted plutonium toys and making Kaiser-Permanente as happy as a pig in shit. So to speak.

I’m more worried by this kind of stats (done by Taylor Nelson Sofres) where they mix drunkers, drugs and IMMIGRANTS…

-Drunkers and Drug users are a drain in the economy and do not represent the future of this country, on the contrary.

-Immigrants, are indirectly bringing wealth to the nation and most probably the cure for a probable Finnish recession within 5 years…

Regarding racism, it’s quite “disturbing” to see in this country that quite many educated people, being racist (usually it’s not their fault, but they have been raised to trust and listen to government or media. So they have lost some kind of judgement.

I rather prefer to have an immigrant with whom I can share some smile, some hello, some coffe, food or talk about his culture and country THAN having a finnish neighbourg that never smile, never say hello never share coffee, food etc… etc…

I work with many finn’s. the problem is quite a few things. they say it does not matter who much or how less you work it all pay’s the same.. in the U.S. you would be fired for this. but here in finland i find a lot of companys are corrupt. charging other companys for man hour’s and materials not used. on another suject i know many of our co workers FINN’S smoke pot before work. if they don’t they are drunk. I have lived here for 8 years. i love finland. but please don’t try to compare the two countrys. Finland as a country is young and has alot to learn.. just give them time. every country has learned from the past. even us in the usa.

2. This is where could go ask for some american help.
Any tips on how to build gated elite communities and stuffing all the poor, ethnic, druggie, insane and criminal people in some rotting ghettos without any future Phil? Because you american people really have it down on that issue..

p.s. i know of alot of getto’s here in finland full of finnish drug users and alcoholic’s. car theft,ect

Herkku

prove what? That 12 Million crossed into the USA for that Opportunity? That folks voted with their feet to say the USA has opportunity?

And if you think the USA is in a economic mess. Just answer the question? What happens to the EU if we do go under? Short answer: You go down to. It is like global warming? Would you rather have global cooling? I think not.

No, I have heard this point for 20 years, and as long as our GDP growth is 2-3% higher than yours, I just don’t care.

A Hummer in every driveway. Frak the chicken in every pot.

#17 – winter: Wow. Love it. Keep the good stuff coming, old man. Yee-haw! USA! USA! USA!

Considering 1 in 10 Finns are reportedly alchoholics or alcohol abusers that might be awfully hard to avoid. At least most of the immigrants are hardcore boozers.

#13- Tim73, as I have a little money put away both here and in the Australian stock market I was wondering if you might help me. For as long as I’ve been visiting this site (almost 2 years?) you have been predicting the collapse of the US economy and the housing bubble bursting and so on and so forth. Now, do you have any more specific information you’re able to tell me about? By just shouting this constantly everyone will know when to sell their shares and I won’t profit from this certain collapse. I mean you do know what you’re talking about I take it? Not just whinning and then eventually saying in the year 2063 when a collapse happens (and it eventually will) “see, I told you so.” Now I don’t expect to benefit from your economic and financial wisdom for free, I believe in paying for services so I tell you what. Tell me when this collapse is imminent and I will sell off and distribute a share of the profits your way.

“I told you so, I told you so!!!!!”

I don’t know, whether Malmi or Koivukylä qualify as ghettos. Drunks, yes, occasional car theft and shattered shop window yes, but compared to some real ghettos, the difference was that I could return from the nightshift with all the money from the ticket sales of that day with no problems whatsoever. “Tough” neighbourhood here, compared to the big world, is still probably a trip to grandma’s house (to the great displeasure of local gangstawannabe’s)

I had long suspected that the only thing a Finnish degree gives is an exuberant dose of self-righteous arrogance and that it proves nothing about someone’s actual smarts. It seems I was right. To notice EDUCATED people speaking such nonsense is quite telling.

“For as long as I’ve been visiting this site (almost 2 years?) you have been predicting the collapse of the US economy and the housing bubble bursting and so on and so forth”

That’s true. I did not and still do not believe in this easy credit induced bubble to be somekind of healthy boom. The peak of housing bubble in the US was back in winter 2006 and prices have gone down since then. Foreclosures are rising now rapidly, a couple of examples:

“Fueled by riskier adjustable-rate mortgages and falling property values, foreclosures have escalated at an astonishing pace in Sacramento: 73 in 2005, 667 in 2006 and 1,066 through the first five months of 2007″

“Mortgage default notices in the Inland region have almost tripled since last year. Home foreclosures have increased almost eightfold. And home sales last month were the worst in a decade”

“U.S. foreclosures rose 58 percent in the first half of 2007 from a year earlier, led by California and Florida, as more homeowners fell behind on their monthly mortgage payments, RealtyTrac Inc. said”

Housing fueled the US economy for about four years and now that party is over. Hedge funds used those easy access mortgage loans as CDOs. They are now in big trouble because those loans are worth much more than originally priced according to their fancy models. Marking to market is a bitch now and liquidity is drying up fast. Bear Stearns is one example of fucked up hedge fund.

Top or bottom calling is never easy but these numbers sure do not look good at all. US is following the same kind of path to depression as Finland in the late 80′s, only all problems are supersized up to the max.

“They are now in big trouble because those loans are worth much more than originally priced according to their fancy models.”

Should be worth much less.

#13 & #20 & #23-24: I was going to write this before I read tm73′s responce:
“True, there is no collapse, just yet, rather some very strong warnings thereof: the subprime lending fiasco and the slow new home sales. Look them up.”

Now hear this, now hear this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a4qa.rYTWyYA&refer=news

Looks like a perfect storm brewing.
I dedicate the following quote from the article to winter: [...and the weaker dollar makes Florida seem like a bargain to Europeans,'' Denslow said. ``With any luck at all that will sustain us.'']

“”Opposition to living near people with problems or differences is often found in areas where residents are educated and have higher salaries.”

…I guess cause educated people with decent salaries are more likely to own their home and have to worry about their real estate value dropping.”

Maybe. And what’s exactly wrong with that? It’s only normal to care about the value of your estate. Don’t you do?

I think most people just want to live in a “decent” environment with no disturbances. A rental block next door with lots of unemployed (immigrants or not) etc. people typically increases the disturbances.

I doubt the number of people not wanting “immigrants” or “different” people as neighbours is any less in the glorious, open-minded U.S.A of yours. If I have understood correctly, most “ethnic” neighbourhoods in the US are way more affordable than the predominantly white neighbourhoods.

So, why don’t the white people use the opportunity and move in, instead of paying ridiculous amounts for living …with other white people in nice houses in nice, peaceful areas?

What about co-op housing in US? Don’t the current tenants basically decide who gets in? That’s surely a great way to keep homos and non-whites out…

TIM73 is full of crap.

The housing Industry fueled the US economy? How untrue, just look at what the medical industry did to the US economy in the last 5 years? If anything the well rounded US economy in the last 20 years has outperformed by 3-4% GDP grouth rates the entire EU.

No I will take that any day to your 15% Unemployment rates. Oh how un-pc of me to talk about your failures again, but a low 4% rate make your predictions very poor..

Anyone else see the stock market gain we had? Like I make more in my stocks now, than going in to work.

“No I will take that any day to your 15% Unemployment rates. Oh how un-pc of me to talk about your failures again, but a low 4% rate make your predictions very poor..”

Unemployment figures are fucked up but labour force participation rate is more reliable (it cannot be so much “fudged”).

Finland, June 2007
Labour force participation rate; 71.1 percent
(Unemployment rate 7.4)

USA, June 2007:
66.1 percent, still US Government claims that the unemployment rate is mere 4.5 percent! Something smells fishy here.

So total of FIVE percent more of the workforce ARE WORKING in Finland than in the US! Your real unemployment rate probably is somewhere around 12 percent already! Try to dispute that!

Sources:
http://www.stat.fi/ajk/tiedotteet/v2007/tiedote_020_2007-07-24_en.html
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Tim, sorry dude but if you believe the BS you write I would be surprised. You don’t actually think the job market in Finalnd is better than that of The US now do you? For all it’s faults and yes there are a few, comparing the job market in The US and Finland is not a wise move.

#28-29: Now now children, can’t we all just get along?
“Comparing the job market” may not only be about which country has fuller employment… you should also consider job security (“You’re fired!” – Donald Trump), how much help you get to find a job, what happens to you if you lose it, what workplace conditions you have to endure and what happens to your pension if your company goes under (Enron, airlines) and how well your job pays, how many of them to you have to keep down to make ends meet/retain health insurance (see Nickeled and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich).
Also, people! Do you want to live to work, or work to live? OK, not you, but the rest of humanity?

I apologize for the lack of proper syntax and punctuation in my post above. The social nanny state made me do it. Also, reading winter’s posts for too long. As punishment I shall now proceed to deprive myself of any government services for the rest of the year. All hail Rand!

tim, your BS is so thick, my brown shoes are getting stained.

It took me 3 years to get a friggin house builder. They were so busy, none would even give me a bid.

Now thanks to a minor housing slump, I have one, and they are working on my new Mac Mansion.

Sounds like your 66% rate is falling apart. Do we all get Cowboy Boots and listen to you yet again?

One particular interesting case in Finland is the small town of Sipoo, next to Helsinki: “Big bad people from Helsinki are coming and there will be drunks in your backyard!”. This was/is the rallying cry againsts the overruling decision by Finnish Parliament to attach part of Sipoo countryside to Helsinki in order to build more houses for the people moving here. For decades Sipoo resisted any kind of expansion plans and wanted to keep their duck pond without any regards of what was happening in nearby towns.

That is a complete misrepresentation of the situation between Sipoo and Helsinki. The main issue is democracy. The people of Sipoo voted overwhelmingly (it was more than 90% if I remember rightly, so not just the Dunk Pond members!.. it’s not a language issue) against the idea for Helsinki to annex part of their municipality. The council of Sipoo voted against it also. Yet, for some reason Helsinki thinks it has the undemocratic right to annex the land of its neighbour against its will. Hardly a good precedent. What’s more, Sipoo does not even have a direct border with Helsinki.

Sipoo has made a general plan to increase the number of houses on its territory massively, but yet in a more sympathetic way to the environment… we don’t want a big LA style urban sprawl in Uusimaa I assume. In other capital regions, there is no need for one city to control everything. If you look at London, Stockholm, Oslo etc, there is good cooperation between all the different municipalities that make up their respective capital regions.

Helsinki has acted in a bullying manor towards its neighbour. Still, the government’s decision in the matter may well be overturned in High Administration Court.

#22: Stuck up rich white NIMBYs are yet another uniquely Finnish contribution to the world. Such people are conspicuously absent from North American suburbia in particular. But I’ve gathered from the whining on this blog that we need considerably more of them in Finland.

There is definately reason for concern about the overvalue in the US housing market, just yesterday these concerns brought european markets down. Also the oilprice is cutting consumer spending and raising concern. Many smaller mortgage business already are starting to fold are have folded

See these links:

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/headline_news/article.jsp?content=b0731144A

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/070731/42956_id.html?.v=1

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19915024/

What is more, CEO Mozilo of CountryWide National (the largest mortgage finanacer in the US) said just last week that his company expects that over 2008 460 billion dollar of mortgages will not be repaid.

He emphasized these are not just the high-risk mortgages.

In the meanwhile, sales are down 6.6%, prices already down 2.2 %

I wouldn’t probably want unemployed, poor, sick or otherwise in weak position, because I assume they’re more likely to have social problems, and those can also affect my life as their neighbour.

About immigrants. Working people are obviously most welcome as neighbours, but I wouldn’t wamt refugees – once again due to high likelihood of social problems.

Often it seems those officials etc. who want ordinary people to be more tolerant for different people in difficult life situations, wouldn’t accept those as their own neighbours either. I guess everyone knows the NIMBY phenomenon.

There’s a difference between a noisy or violent and cracked out drug addict or alcoholic neighbor and an unemployed, poor, sick, “weakly positioned,” or refugee neighbor, as #36 put it. How selfish.

Personally, I’d like to see all of the stupid, self-entitled, violent, financially and socially privileged, wannabe gangsta fraternity type surburban white kids get the hell out of my college campus neighborhood and leave me instead with my quiet, decent, poor, pot smoking artist and graduate student neighbor friends.

If you are going to move next to my door, I don’t want you there. Everyone else is welcome. You know one stupid person spoil the entire neighborhood.

Why you just take a one-way-ticket to the N.Y. and stay there? If we suck so much, why you live here? We has to pay your medical treatment etc. in our taxes. I rather take 100 other American in here, if you live.

Sibbo have refused to develop their community for decades. They’ve also treated Finnish kids poorly, putting their school desks into hallways when classrooms became overcrowded. We know Finnish children get 25% less education funding than the swedish ones in Sibbo. When it was time to put Finnish traffic signs above Swedish ones, after the population shifted years ago, they refused to do it and still have not done it, despite public demands. They are village full of idle busybodies who are totally incompenent in city management and now have lost a piece of their little racist Ahvenanmaa. Under the issue is ALL about the language politics and elitism, and everybody knows that.

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