I would think that the person earning 30k/year is not taking their work home unlike people with higher slaries who always seem to be on call. So at least they get to relax at night.

I think you’re on to something, Phil. I am totally burned out on this rat race and today was the day before my five week vacation starts. I just got an electric bill that I decided to put off paying until next payday — a week late.

If I didn’t think I was just digging my own grave with a teaspoon maybe I wouldn’t feel so “burnt out.”

Taxes are a bit OTT, ain’t they?

I’d have to agree with Fred on this. Having gone through a burn out myself at the age of 26 I would also draw some basis on the age of the people who suffer burn out. Today, I’d say young people are more likely to go through one – the logic being that once you’ve gone through it young, you’ll be a bit more careful when you’re older.

Don’t know. I think you have to look at people as individuals at the end.

Salary does have an effect. I’ve worked the same kind of work, the same insane hours, often through the night until noon earning both 30k and 60k. While earning more doesn’t help during the work, it is better to come home to a nice home in a nice area instead of a dump in the ghetto. It is better to unwind watching a 32″ TV instead of a 14″ b/w one and your fave music sounds better through Infinity speakers than a 1980s ghetto blaster.

But due to Finland’s punitive income tax progression, the difference in living standards between 30k and 60k isn’t as big as you’d easily imagine.

I work a lot less as I got more salery. Must be the use of fellow employees to offload the mundane stuff.

“While earning more doesn’t help during the work, it is better to come home to a nice home in a nice area instead of a dump in the ghetto. It is better to unwind watching a 32″ TV instead of a 14″ b/w one and your fave music sounds better through Infinity speakers than a 1980s ghetto blaster.”

Trouble is, more often than not, people with that kind of a mind set are rarely satisfied with their superior sound systems and televisual equipment: there’s always something better and more expensive that they simply “must” have, no matter what the cost in blood (pressure), sweat, and tears.

Of course, then there are the super-rich, who keep waking up before dawn and suffering stress-related ailments in an effort to multiply their wealth, even though they already own more than anyone can possibly need as with respect to enhancing their personal comfort. The late, great Kurt Vonnegut wrote about a game called “idiot’s delight” – turning power into money, and money back into power again.

Ben Elton put it rather well in his novel “Stark”. I suspect that I may have quoted this here before, but here it goes again:
“He had to learn the hard way that the difference between being poor and not being poor was far greater than the difference between being rich and being stupidly rich. Being able to own a swimming pool is physical pleasure, being able to own hundreds of them is just an abstract idea. Sly had only one dick, only one stomach. There was only so much he could do for them, and yet each day he worked harder to get more of what he didn’t need and couldn’t use.”

I always thought “burnout” was a euphemism for major depression. If so, it’s not just work that’s causing it.

A higher salary is no vaccine against “burnout” nor a lower salary an indicator for it – it’s more of a time issue and occurs in situations where for example; there is not time to do all that is expected, when there is loss of control over one’s time, where work & life are out of balance.
Burnout is becoming more common across the industrialised world as less people are being required to do more work, longer hours, there is blurring of the distinction line between work time and home life through connection to work via mobile phone & internet which all place increased stresses on individuals and their families.
The Japanese salaryman comes to mind as a burnout candidate – Japanese government has reported 10,000 cases a year of managers, executives and engineers who have died from overwork. In the US and other countries where there is pressure on the economy, reduction in workers’ holidays, increasing working hours and threats of layoffs burnout is rising.

6. dhen “I always thought “burnout” was a euphemism for major depression. If so, it’s not just work that’s causing it.

It’s a term used normally for a condition in the work context.

Burnout seeps into you when your work expectations exceed your capability, when you see little or no meaning in your work, when expectations are unclear, and/or when negative feedback is constant. Burnout also tends to infect our work lives more specifically, though depression can be a factor.

Many public school teachers I know, by the way, have job burnout. It’s common to many professions, but the workload of 180+ papers a day, plus lesson plans and a sometimes hostile public who heaps on yet more expectations, blames public school teachers, calls the system “failed” and wants to turn schools into social institutions that deal not just with academics but with racism, obesity, gender issues, homosexuality (add your political agenda here, — well, reread paragraph one for the recipe. No wonder 50% of teachers leave the profession within five years.

Give me a decent problem to work on and I might do it for free. It’s fun. But I’m expecting a good compensation for wasting my precious days between the two big twilights producing some damned document, required by ISO 900xxx system, that no one is ever going to read.

“Burnout is becoming more common across the industrialised world as less people are being required to do more work, longer hours, there is blurring of the distinction line between work time and home life through connection to work via mobile phone & internet which all place increased stresses on individuals and their families.
The Japanese salaryman comes to mind as a burnout candidate – Japanese government has reported 10,000 cases a year of managers, executives and engineers who have died from overwork. In the US and other countries where there is pressure on the economy, reduction in workers’ holidays, increasing working hours and threats of layoffs burnout is rising.”

Peace of mind and sleeping well is a thousand times more valuable than a hundred square meters of extra floor space.

You can’t put a price on mental sanity. The world doesn’t work like that.

Markku hit the nail on the head.

Peace of mind and sleeping well is a thousand times more valuable than a hundred square meters of extra floor space.

Heh, then why so many burn outs in Finland? Finnish houses are tiny.

I work a lot less as I got more salery. Must be the use of fellow employees to offload the mundane stuff.

Hey, I found a shining pearl among the busloads of shit Winter posts here. Keep up the good job, Winter!

Finnish houses are tiny.

They still cost more than the bigger ones elsewhere.

And all of this seems quite accepted in Finnish society, you’re not really allowed to question what’s up with your co-workers.

I don’t get this part. Let’s say someone goes on sick leave, and the co-workers do question it. What are they going to do about it?

Just think about the lifestyle, in general: The Finnish socialist economy is designed so that you go to work in the morning and come home at night….but not much else. That’s because stores close early, and restaurants/pubs/cafes are priced in such a way that only Saturday night visits are possible—unless you have a fortune to spend. It’s due to the heavily centralized economic system, which keeps the domestic and local economy from developing to the scale found in other countries.

In much of Europe, people can relax outside of work with their friends—fun isn’t prohibitively expensive, and there’s plenty available. In Finland, people just go to work and then sit at home. It’s not a very fun lifestyle, in my opinion. There’s nothing to counterbalance the stress of work.

“It’s not a very fun lifestyle, in my opinion. There’s nothing to counterbalance the stress of work.”

So, at best, you have a binge-lifestyle. Everything happens on a Saturday night…including binge-drinking of ultra-high priced alcohol. I wonder if there’s a correlation between late-nite binge drinking on weekends and burnout at work during the week.

I have to disagree with Kristian here. On the weekend, Finns go to their little houses on the lake, have a beer in the wood fired sauna, and cook fish over the fire.

Now thats the life.

@17&18:

I wonder if there’s a correlation between late-nite binge drinking on weekends and burnout at work during the week.

Myself I wonder if there’s a correlation between the number of comments before Kristian’s first appearance in any given topic and the likelihood of Kristian starting to communicate with himself.

Now Kristian’s entrée took until the comment number 17. In the comment number 18 he is commenting on the comment number 17.

I think that’s a correlation.

I happen to agree with Kristian.

The Finnish “domestic” and “local economy” does look to be less than thriving. There doesnt appear to be very much activiy with everything closed all the time, what few businesses there arfe in Helsinki and the region. You cant say those few arent high price because they are. I go out much less here in Finland due to the high price and few options of things to do. Thats compared to other places Ive lived. Im lucky to have friends and people from work otherwise I’d burn out too. Maybe I still will in the future.

Being able to own a swimming pool is physical pleasure, being able to own hundreds of them is just an abstract idea.

With 60k one can barely afford a bathtub. I’ll get back to you when I have too much money.

Hmmm; this hits home, but my home is in the US, not Finland. For what it’s worth, I agree with Marku in about the square footage, but only the most literal sense. What AmeriikanEnkeli had to say seems quite true, and the example of school teachers (sounds like American school teachers) is an excellent example. I currently make more money than I have previously, but in a job I do not like. I know what Marku means about mere square footage, but that does not capture th dimension of life that Freeridin’ Franklin is talking about. Let’s be clear: I loathe the job. However, when my car breaks down, I can pay in full to fix it. I can afford to go out to movies or dinner. I have fairly tight job security. The younger people in my work place essentially do what I do for much less salary. The economic worries they have are very wearing on them, and there does seem to be a high rate of burnout among that group. In my group, it is either resignation (I’m not there yet) or secret job hunting (that would be me). So I’d wonder: if person y and person z work in the same company in Finland, do similar work, and salary is really the only difference, where is the burnout likely to occur ? Do salaries offer any secret or public prestige, all other things being equal ? I admit, if I have a bad day at work dealing with someone, I have walked away thinking “I make more than you, *sshole.”

Cordelia:
Do salaries offer any secret or public prestige, all other things being equal ?

Salaries are a bit of a taboo in Finland. That’s why we have public tax records.

With 4-7 or 8 weeks of holiday, family time, family care time and virtually unlimited sick time I don’t understand the ‘overwork’ bit. Maybe Finns are just a bunch of pansies.

Are there really particularly many cases of burnouts per year in Finland?

Hfb, not all workers here get all the benefits you mention. There are a lot of temporaries in many fields.

I just returned from the US from an expat assignment. My take-home salary dropped about 40%, and I also had to accept a promotion to get the raise (else my takehome would have gone down almost 50%). Either way, that means harder work and WAAAY less pay. Although I love the challenges my new job gives me, I’m still 20-30 YEARS away from financial independence (which I define as “I own my house”). With the challenge my employer gives me, I need to be able to focus all my efforts on doing my job well. Worrying about salary adds to the stress.

If I’m to assume I can perform at my peak for the next 15 years, I’ll still be 15 years away from financial independence. It’s simply lunatic. I would move out of Finland as soon as possible – unfortunately, I love my wife very much.

With 4-7 or 8 weeks of holiday, family time, family care time and virtually unlimited sick time I don’t understand the ‘overwork’ bit. Maybe Finns are just a bunch of pansies.

8 weeks? Yeah right, I have three days this summer.

Nah, your just a bunch of lazy bastards. Burn out at 26 ? WTF ? yeh, if you can be with your computer games and videos all day you call it burn out. A little ahrd work and you fags cry. shesh, you weak lily liverd cry babies. you want the big bugs but you don’t want to work hard for it. I work my ass off and never cry about it and I love all the work. Bring it on baby. Go pick flowers you lazy bastards.

Freeridin’ – 3 days? where’s the rest? Maybe it’s time to enjoy the park life.

Freeridin’ – 3 days? where’s the rest?

In 2008, hopefully. Then again, I work for a real slave driver.