Helsinki 22nd most expensive city, 30th best city
Mercer’s annual cost and quality of living surveys are out. Congrats, we’re 30th!! :-/ But that #3 ranking for “health and sanitation” is impressive. Here’s how some other cities perform…
City Name / Cost Rank / Quality Rank
London / 2 / 39
Copenhagen / 6 / 11
Stockholm / 23 / 20
Oslo / 10 / 26
New York / 15 / 48
Helsinki / 22 / 30
Hat Tip to Martin-Eric R. and Chris K. for the links!
What is the Quality Rank for Moscow?
Comment by Alex — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
Didn’t make the Top 50
Comment by Phil — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Yep, seems so.
Comment by Alex — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
Surely the real story there is that although the US has a per capita GDP fully 25% higher than almost all European countries, not one US city makes the top 25.
Comment by Finnsense — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
With the War on Drugs going on in the states, it doesn’t surprise me either than no city makes the Top 25. (or even Top 26!!! heh)
Comment by Phil — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
I put this here too as this seems to be quite a field day on the subject…
It is getting kind of annoying that only negative studies are cited here. As we know there are quite many that have Finland top of the league on various fields. Not that I would be much of a believer on those either (nothing can be as misleading as an international study comparing completely different kinds of societies), but it is kind of pathetic to see this negative cherrypicking that is going on here. Name a prejudice and anyone can find an international study to support it - it needs much more integrity to take in also studies that don’t support your preconceived notions. That kind of intellectual integrity seems to be in short supply on this site.
Comment by mjr — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
If the stereotype of Finnish low self esteem was true, then I’d probably keep reading this blog, as a form of self degradation. Well, guess what?
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
but it is kind of pathetic to see this negative cherrypicking that is going on here.
You must have missed this from the same article…
Don’t let the patriotism to your country warp your brain - This is a political blog, and political blogs 99% of the time highlight the “areas of improvement”.
I mean, imagine if I would goto a popular American blog like DailyKos and be like, “Hey, all you ever say is bad things about Bush!!” …I’d quickly be laughed at, then dismissed.
Comment by Phil — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
6. “It is getting kind of annoying that only negative studies are cited here.”
Dear mjr,
Funny that you mention it, considering your opinions about Russia, for example :)))))
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 6:15 pm
Phil, I think it’s fair to include Moscow to the list
It’s most expensive city this time, but from Quality point of view it didn’t make even to first 200 :)) (that’s what I have found on russian news site)
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
and 9&10 are from me, sorry
Comment by Alex — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
9: Hmm, and my views on Russia are? Am not in the habit of citing studies anyway, they are mostly just silly and pointless. And a link to my apparently well known ideas about Russia:
http://stockholmslender.blogspot.com/2007/02/s-novym-godom-svetom-kraem-krovom.html
Comment by mjr — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
Phil, as said I don’t take the positive ones very seriously either - statistics is actually a precise science of its own, and these popularly cited studies are often taken completely out of context and misinterpreted (either willfully or out of ignorance). But it is annoying to see you focus so regularly on those few that confirm your own prejudices. I know myself well enough, that there are many studies that don’t do that, and if you take the others seriously, you should do the same with the rest too. That’s simple intellectual integrity which is not dependent on your country of origin.
Comment by mjr — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
#13- Well it seems that any time someone is critical towards Finland all we get back are stats from one survey or another about leading in competitiveness, least corrupt, best educated etc etc etc so why the anger to one showing something else?
Suppose it just doesn’t fit in with that “reality” you mention?
Comment by Punter — Mon, Jun 18th, 2007 @ 8:09 pm
Sorry, but I don’t get the “negativity” and “critical” thing here. Helsinki comes 22nd in terms of cost (which means there were 21 more expensive places), and 30th in terms of quality of life. Seems like that means you get a fair (though not great) bang for your buck out of the place, and certainly one shitload more value than you would from living in London, where you pay second-highest prices for sub-average quality. The only people who can seriously feel shafted are those living in cities that feature HIGH (low numbers) on the cost-of-living scale and LOW (numbers in the 40s or not at all) in the quality of life ranking. Like London or Moscow, or Tokyo, or NYC. Most American cities have slipped down (that’s GOOD, remember) the cost of living rankings because of the weak dollar, which helps ex-pats (who are the people being polled here, which is of itself an important point to remember). The only people, on the other hand, who can truly feel good about where they have landed up are those in places like Vancouver - which ranks very near the top in List #2, and nowhere in the cost-of-living assay. Like I said, who wants to be 1st in THAT list? “Yippee! I live in the most expensive city in the world and it’s officially crap”. So how come this is such a “negative” study for Finns to get their knickers twisted over? It doesn’t look that way to me. Or am I in need of new glasses? Please? MJR, could it be you are barking unnecessarily this time?
Comment by Eastern Front — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 1:21 am
Ouch, London seems really expensive
Comment by Fägäri — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 1:52 am
14 “any time someone is critical towards Finland all we get back are stats from one survey or another about leading in competitiveness, least corrupt, best educated
Drunk on Grange … again?
Punter you are still in debt, and remain a liar and a fool.
Comment by pi — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 3:15 am
Let’s see… based on the rankings and cost of living, I think I am joining Kristian and moving to Germany, preferably Munich
Comment by unlce sam — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 7:33 am
@16 London is insane… Basically same prices as the US , except that instead of dollars it is sterling. Last time I had a medium pizza and a a bottle of club soda for £16.00. The cheapest fare in the tube is £4.
Comment by unlce sam — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 7:37 am
and there we have the typical intelligent comment by one of these fantastic leftist contributors. Nothing to add just vile from the mouth.
Same every time.
Comment by Punter — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 9:09 am
Well, I guess this is a relatively mild case, though I’m sure you see how it was framed by Phil, but this is only the latest example of a very longstanding pattern of largely ignoring any positive studies and highlighting only those things that fit his particular prejudices. This to me is simply intellectually dishonesty, even if practiced by a leftist blogger.
Comment by mjr — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Oh, that was in reply to 15.
Punter, what are you on about, I mean did you own up to that Australian wine bet or not? I can understand that that issue would annoy anyone arguing in good faith.
Comment by mjr — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 10:53 am
To #21. Granted, but I think you leapt before you looked on this one. And frankly I think that if Phil WERE looking for ways to bash Finland and Helsinki (no comment), he hardly covered himself in glory in this instance (again).
There are a great many cities that stand out in this quasi-study as being a much worse bet for an ex-pat. I’m rather surprised at the interest this thread has prompted, to be honest. It didn’t look like a “live round” to me at all, and rather pointed to problems with value-for-money in other places.
But the whole issue of intellectual dishonesty is moot: the smart reader KNOWS the blog-owner’s (and more particularly his henchmen’s) skew on things and factors this into how much credence he or she gives to whatever is put up there. On a scale from 0 to 1%.
Only fools and horses believe what they read, and they shoot horses, don’t they?
Comment by Eastern Front — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
mjr, what don’t you understand in English? I was answering to a claim that Australian wine is sold in Alko at a price 50%-60% cheaper than it is in Australia. Now understand this. IT IS NOT. Now at the time I mentioned a bottle of Grange and it was given as an exapmle of a wine being 50%-60% cheaper to which I said IT IS NOT THE CASE. Now my original point remains the same as it was about 2 weeks ago. Where are the Aussie wines in Alko that sell at between 50%-60% cheaper compared to Australian prices? What we pay for Grange locally pre ordered in Australia and what it is advertised online for are 2 completely different matters but my challenge remains for pi and franklin. Find me the Australian wine(wines as it was plural)in Alko at 50%-60% the retail price in Australia. Stop changing your attack to suit yourselves.
Comment by Punter — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
Punter,
You said: “Now, find me a price in Finland for aussie wine cheaper than it is back home, let alone 50%-60% cheaper and I’ll buy you a crate of it.”
An example was given, but you haven’t given any counter proof (yet) - just abuse. _Where_ is this magical shop of yours? Price? Phone number? Address? e-mail?
Give it and I think pi and franklin would be satisfied… Until then, you owe a crate of Grange!
Comment by Zark — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
No, it wasn’t. The quote was about “wines” and “them being 50%-60% cheaper in Alko compared to Australia.” Keep trying…..
As for an example, walk into most licensed grocers and better bottle shops and you’ll be surprised at what you can dig up a bottle of Grange for. If you happen to be a reg there all the better. On top of that, go straight to the maker or their agent and wow. Now, does that sound like Alko? Like Finland? The problem here is that you are all so stuck in the Alko system and fail to see or understand competition and the free market with options for business and the result on consumer prices. This “give a name or phone number” stuff just shows the result of a single pricing policy on the average Finns ability to grasp something different. Here it’s like “I’ll just look up the price (non neg) from Alko’s site” and you know that is it. No sales, no barginning and no options.
Comment by Punter — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
Punter,
Ummm, but it was. I cut’n'pasted the text from _your original_ comment! Not even a single price quote on the Grange. Sorry, but you still owe the crate.
Comment by Zark — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 10:20 pm
As for an example, walk into most licensed grocers and better bottle shops and you’ll be surprised at what you can dig up a bottle of Grange for.
All we need is a name, address and a price quote. Keep trying, Punty.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
Sorry, but you still owe the crate.
The poor sod owes two, actually.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 10:22 pm
Freeridin’ Franklin lies. Watch out.
Comment by Gupta — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
If you order online, you have to pay the Finnish alcohol tax on top of the listed price, right?
Comment by aet75 — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
31- Probably so but no experience there sorry. Always purchase personally and bring em in myself. Haven’t been stopped yet. As for Fraky I suggest as you are such a fan of google you might like to look up bottle shops Australia, buy yourself a ticket (with that 6 figure salary of yours) and do the ground work in Oz.
Zark, go back a bit further in the post and you’ll see the original quote from pi…..
Comment by Punter — Tue, Jun 19th, 2007 @ 11:33 pm
Haven’t been stopped yet. As for Fraky I suggest as you are such a fan of google you might like to look up bottle shops Australia, buy yourself a ticket (with that 6 figure salary of yours) and do the ground work in Oz.
A name and an address would certainly help. My typical Finn-slacker’s summer vacation is three days this year, so this excursion will have to wait, but I do have plans to visit that corner of the world some of these days. Besides, my salary is a far cry from six figures, mainly because of the quite punitive income tax progression. I try to keep the income tax at 28% for obvious reasons. Fortunately the evil welfare state is quite entrepreneur-friendly in this respect.
So I take it that if I bring back a bottle of Grange that is more expensive than at Alko, you’ll reimburse me with a crate, or will you try to weasel out of that one as well?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 12:04 am
Doesn’t surprise me in the least that Penfold’s Grange can be had cheaper in Alko. It’s been well documented that Alko prices for French rotgut are way above other Central European prices for French rotgut, but that they go through an inversion at around the EUR 20.00 mark and when you get into 1er Cru territory, discerning French tourists snap the stuff up while they are here since it’s cheaper than they can buy it at home.
It DOES surprise me quite a lot that this subject hasn’t been “taken outside” long ago, however. I know the thread was pretty dull, and probably it was a mistake to post it in the first place, but OT bitch-fights really lower the tone of the place beyond what it deserves. Just THINK of all those Virginal Finland readers and how disappointed they will be with the quality of what passes for debate…
But this may quieten Punter’s ardour a little
http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20030811IE6
Articles like this are SO bothersome for those who automatically assume they are getting shafted in Alko. But let them drink Tesco’s Lasol, I say.
Comment by Eastern Front — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 12:18 am
http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20030811IE6
Articles like this are SO bothersome for those who automatically assume they are getting shafted in Alko. But let them drink Tesco’s Lasol, I say.
It is evil welfare state propaganda! You are not to believe a word of it! You will go blind if you read it!
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 12:44 am
I concur, I do recall when I took up Punter’s challenge that Chateuax Margeaux at Alko was a steal compared to Australian & US prices for it - an even better bargain than the Grange.
Yes Punter the liar & fool - you do still owe.
Comment by pi — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 4:24 am
My heart weeps at the sight of the low “quality of life” ranking for New York City.
Comment by funkybrownchick — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 10:10 am
“was a steal compared to Australian & US prices for it,”
I doubt you’ll find much of anything cheaper than US prices. It’s possible that Alko has one particular brand/vintage that’s cheaper—because maybe it’s not offered in the states or something—but you won’t find cheaper prices across a wide selection. In fact, Alko has no wide selection.
In fact, if Punter can’t find a wine that he likes in Australia, he can surely find it online in the US—and have it delivered to Australia.
Can that be done in Finland?
http://www.wine-searcher.com/
Comment by Kristian — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
Kristian, I know that you are a libertarian and reading is against the rules or something, but did you really check that link? It is actually well known that Alko is quite competitive indeed in quality wines. This is not to deny that on average we could have much cheaper bulk products and this monopoly thing is of course outdated. Though it’s kind of nice to have also socialized alcohol and not only socialized medicine, winter! Anyway, happy Midsummer to all, I’m off to the fleshpots of Southern Ostrobothnia - for those unversed in Finnish geography and culture, it’s the Tuscany and Provence, the Southern California of Finland!!!
Comment by mjr — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
Of course I checked it. But apparently you didn’t. Try entering
Penfolds Grange
(any legitimate vintage)
All matching wines
USA (all states)
You’ll see that there’s no shortage of supply well under 200-euro, across a WIDE selection.
As for me, I’m a beer drinker. The 3- and 4-euro per-bottle international selection at Alko doesn’t interest me.
That’s because the market value for those products is about 50ct-bottle in central European supermarkets. Why should I pay Alko prices for that?
Comment by Kristian — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
38. Kristian “I doubt you’ll find much of anything cheaper than US prices.” do you want to give some incentive to look into it (like a case of wine) Punter style? Offer me a case of a 1er cru Bordeaux…
Once again I think you might be putting down Alko without need with the comment “That’s because Alko has no wide selection.“. If I use the example of Aus vs Finland again - since I’ve been checking that out thanks to Punter (the liar and fool)’s promise of a case. I see that the massive Aus retailer Vintage Cellars offers wines from a grand total of just 10 countries vs Alko at over 20 countries. And within the countries I suggest you look at the wines available from France - Alko lists approx 160 in just the French Reds section and Vintage cellars only a measly 119 covering reds, whites, rosés, sweet dry whatever. Alko does have a big range of wines - and they have a big range in even some of the shittiest locations.
“In fact, if Punter can’t find a wine that he likes in Australia, he can surely find it online in the USâ€â€and have it delivered to Australia.” I suspect the shipping and customs duty could be pretty nasty sending wine from US to AUS.
That link you’ve provided also helps by giving Punter another comparison for his preferred wine Penfolds Grange 2000 - available in Aus at Cellarit for AU$650 (410euro) against the Alko price of 195,40 (AU$315)! I think this is another clear example of what Punter the liar and fool has been trying to deny (you can work out the % yourself Punter).
Comment by pi — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
So now Alko has a wider selection of wines too? I give up!!!
Instead I will just sit in a corner and stare at the wall. Hopefully one day I’ll end up seeing the same “wide picture of life” as you do.
I’m finally speechless.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
42. Punter the liar and fool “I give up!!! no need to give up, just cough up!
Comment by pi — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
“available in Aus at Cellarit for AU$650 (410euro) against the Alko price of 195,40 (AU$315)! ”
So what? He can order it from the states. Or he can buy an earlier vintage in Australia. Does Alko have anything for comparison?
Why can’t people in Finland order from the states, too?
http://members.tripod.com/clinton.u/penfoldsgrange/id17.html
Again, I’m a beer drinker. Alko absolutely sucks for beer. See prices in my previous comment. Total ripoff.
Comment by Kristian — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Seriously, why is it necessary for me to go to a different country just to get beer?
Comment by Kristian — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Even when given hard could facts the libertaerian fools deny everything. They believe so blindly that it resembles religious dogma.
All praise the market forces as they are our masters.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
*cold
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
Kristian, just give up. They know everything, even in regards to places they’ve never been and things they’ve never experienced. Anything outside of their little State spread “norm” is evil and wrong. We all Alko is “The Place” world wide for both price and selection of wines. That probably explains why all these foreigners are here buying up not only our summer cottages but wines too….. Oh, and stealing our women
Truely, they will never learn for they know best. As a final detail, I bet they read about it or were told about it by a teacher so it must be right.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
“We all Alko is “The Place†world wide for both price and selection of wines. ”
World wide? More like 3-aisles-wide. For a country that’s renown for its drinking, what an embarrassment to have alcohol shops the size of an average flat. That offer ONE variety of Penfolds Grange. (yawn)
Compare…
http://www.winezap.com/search/searchResults.cfm?vintage=0&ID=644&searchtext=penfold%20grange
Comment by Kristian — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
But you see Kristian, you’ve been around. You are aware of choices and options offered outside of The State. No tricks about it. No reason to be suspicious of it just honest competition and variety for the consumer. Reminds me of home but wait, Alko can still provide more of it and between 50%-60% cheaper than in Australia. Want to know how I know this? I looked on the net
Comment by Punter — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
Kristian, have you ever heard that you can ORDER wines or any alcohol to nearest ALKO store? Why is it so god damn difficult to admit that alko is cheap when it comes to quality wines? If they always use the same formula to calculate the price, it makes perfect sense. Private companies must be tempted to add few extra euros to the price of a 200€ bottle, simply because people who buy that stuff don’t care if it costs 200€ or 400€ as Punter has just proven.
Oh yes, what´s the market price of Lapin Kulta in Germany?
Comment by Digit — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
44. Kristian “So what? He can order it from the states. So what? His promise had nothing to do with the States. Just to remind you that Punter promise was “Now, find me a price in Finland for aussie wine cheaper than it is back home, let alone 50%-60% cheaper and I’ll buy you a crate of it.†where back home is AU not USA.
I don’t see any relevance in that link you’ve given - an individual “collector” in Aus selling bottles of Grange, his site “Winevintry.com was updated April 2002 with new stock”, he doesn’t (um didn’t) ship outside Aus, the provenance of his wines is unknown, all the delivered prices on that page are higher than Alko’s price for the 2000…. who would part with good money on the strength of this crap?
I’d rather Punter the liar and fool obtained my case of Grange from a reputable source - I don’t really mind if he buys it infrom Aus, the US or even saves himself a few bills buying from Alko.
Comment by pi — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
Try the relevance being that if he is selling at that price and making a nice little “profit” (understand the concept?) for himself doing so perhaps he too is able to source his supply at a somewhat lower price? Unless he takes the Finnish method and sells at cost or a loss to keep eveything and everyone equal and to avoid the evil profit making.
Comment by Punter — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
Just as a reminder, you were still going to show me a list of all of these Australian wines 50%-60% cheaper in Alko compared to Australia. Now I’m still waiting for this but you seem to have conviently forgotten about it. Now, who is the liar and fool?????
Comment by Punter — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
48. Punter the liar and fool “Anything outside of their little State spread “norm†is evil and wrong.” - it is wrong to make promises you do not intend to keep.
“… places they’ve never been and things they’ve never experienced.”
You are very worldly in your own mind aren’t you? Punter the gloating liar and fool.
You were going to sit in a corner, since you’re out of it now go and get the wine you owe me, Punter, gloating liar and fool.
Comment by pi — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
53. Punter, gloating liar and fool “Try the relevance being that if he is selling at that price and making a nice little “profit†(understand the concept?)” look at the site again it was updated over 5 years ago (April 2002) are you taking that as a reliable supplier of wines?
54. Punter gloating liar and fool - “Australian wines 50%-60% cheaper in Alko compared to Australia. did you do the calculation on the example Kristian gave the link to above? Aus at Cellarit for AU$650 (410euro) against the Alko price of 195,40 (AU$315). Do you want the % done for you?
Even if you can’t do the calc yourself it doesn’t affect your original promise that needed any Aus wine at all to be cheaper at all at Alko than in Aus to receive your offer of wine, remember - your words again ““Now, find me a price in Finland for aussie wine cheaper than it is back home, let alone 50%-60% cheaper and I’ll buy you a crate of it.â€Â
Now quit the crap and make good your promise, until then you remain the gloating liar and fool.
Comment by pi — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
I will change to your level of vulgarity soon if you don’t either STFU or come up with this list of wines available at Alko for the 50%-60% price compared to Aust as you so think. Just STFU and do it!
Comment by Punter — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 4:54 pm
57. Punter gloating liar and fool, you can threaten like a big boy but nobody here has offered you “a list of wines” rather you have offered a case of wine.
You’ve been shown the proof, now produce the goods,
blustering, gloating liar and fool.
Comment by pi — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
Idiot. You quoted that Alko sells Australian wines at 50%-60% cheaper than available in Australia itself. Proof is where DC?
Comment by Punter — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
59. Punter blustering, gloating liar and fool. It makes no difference to your promise anyway.. but from Kristian’s link earlier here’s an Aus wine retailer :
http://www.cellarit.com/winelist/Penfolds+Grange+Shiraz+2000.aspx?wid=41041&price=650.00&w=Penfolds
You’ll see the 2000 Grange is AU$650 (which is about 410€)
and at Alko :
http://www.alko.fi/tuotteet/fi/458947
Their price is 195,40 € (which is about AU$315)
Now in a sane mind 315 is less than half of 650, just like 195,40 is less than half of 410. Are you satisfied that here is an Aus wine 50-60% cheaper at Alko than in Aust?
Once again … Punter, blustering gloating liar and fool, you have offered a case of wine if one can be found cheaper at all at Alko than Aus (insert original quote here..again). You’ve been given numerous proofs of this.
Pay up, blustering, gloating liar and fool.
Comment by pi — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 5:39 pm
HA! HA! HA! Again Finn tells why better to pay more for liquor HA HA HA!!! Good that not all Finn that stupid.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 8:48 pm
“Why is it so god damn difficult to admit that alko is cheap when it comes to quality wines? If they always use the same formula to calculate the price, it makes perfect sense.”
Same formula??? Alko’s markup formula tells us nothing about how much it pays to the wholesaler. You think Alko can roughly match any of these prices? Even with shipping included?
http://www.winezap.com/search/searchResults.cfm?vintage=0&ID=644&searchtext=penfold%20grange
“Private companies must be tempted to add few extra euros to the price of a 200€ bottle, simply because people who buy that stuff don’t care if it costs 200€ or 400€ as Punter has just proven.”
Right. And I’ll add a few-euros to my consulting fee. Companies who pay for such services don’t care if it costs 15K-euro or 30K-euro. Money just flies out of their pockets. Plus, I’m the only consultant in the world. No competition.
All this wine talk is really irrelevant to me, because I DON’T DRINK 200-euro WINE!
I normally drink wine with Alko-price of about 10- to 12-euro. Why can’t Alko sell it to me for the EU market price of about 5-euro?
And what about my beer? I’d even pay 1-euro/bottle, which is double the EU market price. Alko sells it for 3- to 4-euros? So why must I go to a different country to buy my beer?
And to be sure, Punter owes you nothing. Here’s Penfold Grange for 148-euros. You don’t think he can get it to Australia for an extra 50-euros, to match your price?
http://www.valleywineandspirits.com/?ID=17&Item=10570
Australia allows wine to be ordered through mail, you know. Why not Finland?
“HA! HA! HA! Again Finn tells why better to pay more for liquor HA HA HA!!! Good that not all Finn that stupid.”
No, thankfully not all. Many people in Finland complain about it. Many.
Comment by Kristian — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
And to be sure, Punter owes you nothing. Here’s Penfold Grange for 148-euros. You don’t think he can get it to Australia for an extra 50-euros, to match your price?
http://www.valleywineandspirits.com/?ID=17&Item=10570
I doubt it, since they don’t deliver outside the US.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
You F’ing simpletons. You just don’t get it. Even your normally leftist friends have left you. Where are all of these Aussie wines offered at-50% to 60% cheaper than Aussie price.? You know Jack S about prices in Australia. Just speal a lot of BS then throw around insults. Listen pi you little SOB, add what you want to your poor insults. I know the facts of Oz prices but I’m just waiting for you to show me examples of where, apart from your supposed Grange, that Alko sells OZ wine 50%-60% cheaper than Australia. C’mon you big woose. SHOW ME:
Comment by Punter — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 11:39 pm
I didn’t read anything about not shipping outside the US. It’s perfectly legal for them to do so.
Comment by Kristian — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
Here’s another one. It also doesn’t seem to indicate anything about international shipping. But, you can see that there’s no shortage at that price of under 150-euros. Getting someone who’ll ship wouldn’t be a problem.
Edit: sorry, I gave you the shipping link. Here’s the wine:
http://www.anconaswine.com/sku11359.html
But again, high-priced wine isn’t for me. I’d much rather Alko offer competitive prices on the stuff normal people drink.
Comment by Kristian — Wed, Jun 20th, 2007 @ 11:56 pm
Kristian, Alko can offer nothing competitive when it comes to price or variety in the real world. It’s just a pity so many Finns can’t see past The State. Then again, as I’ve said, they’re not taught to ask questions or think freely.
Australian wine cheaper in Alko than in Australia………. As if….
Comment by Punter — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 12:24 am
http://www.winestar.com.au/prod368.htm
Quote:
“Such is the lunacy of the domestic allocation system we have once again had to look abroad to satisfy demand on Australia’s most sought after wine. WineStar have now purchased a large consignment of this much sought after wine destined for the overseas markets.”
Thus the suggestion on this AUSTRALIAN site is that there is a shortage of the liquor in question in the domesrtic market, owing to a balls-up by the Australians, who are keener to satisfy the thirst of their exporters and of foreigners than their own people… which is probably one reason why it costs more there than here. As it demonstrably does.
Winestar wants AU$499 a bottle. That’s EUR 315.
Comment by Eastern Front — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 12:52 am
Now of course the “domestic allocation system” COULD be a statist thing, in which case expect to hear a ringing endorsement of the importance of letting the market run things… or else… it might be the market has screwed the Australians. And those sneaky statist Finns are reaping the benefits.
Comment by Eastern Front — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 12:54 am
“or else… it might be the market has screwed the Australians. And those sneaky statist Finns are reaping the benefits.”
Not me. I don’t buy the stuff. That would be for high salaried people. Why should I care that Alko caters to them? Under normal conditions, they could just buy online anyway—same price.
More importantly for me, why can’t I reap the benefits of beer at EU market prices or even normally priced wines—the kind that normal people drink?
No, of course not. We need to squabble about how great it is that Alko supplies rich people with a narrow selection of high-priced wines, albeit at roughly market prices. Everyone else pays out the ass for theirs.
Comment by Kristian — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 1:22 am
Ah, but Kristian, it’s all a clever plot to keep those venture capitalists and high-flying Finnish investors in the country as the OECD has told us to. As long as they know they can get their Chateau Yquem at rock-bottom rates in the Munkkiniemi Alko they aren’t going anywhere. Nobody in his right mind wants to keep happy the likes of YOU, with your oafish desire to drink cheap Lidl beer and urinate in passageways.
And as for squabbling… the squabble seems to be more about how Punter is unable to admit that he spoke out of turn, overreached himself, and got called on it. Shit happens. I’m surprised he didn’t try to pull the thread like some before him. He’d have emerged from all this with a lot more credit if he hadn’t blustered quite so much and looked like a loudly-squealing stuck pig. And we might instead have been able to discuss the subject of value-for-money among cities for ex-pats to live in. Not, in my view, that it was a particularly illuminating study in the first place.
Comment by Eastern Front — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 2:10 am
In denial much, libertards?
Comment by Anonymous — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 2:11 am
“Nobody in his right mind wants to keep happy the likes of YOU, with your oafish desire to drink cheap Lidl beer and urinate in passageways.”
Unfortunately, that’s what’s offered.
But I’ll still urinate in passageways, even if Finland finally gets good beer at market prices.
“Punter is unable to admit that he spoke out of turn”
Why should he? The claim has been proven.
“it’s all a clever plot to keep those venture capitalists and high-flying Finnish investors in the country”
You might have a point there, but it’ll take more than a few bottles of wine.
Comment by Kristian — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 2:25 am
“Unfortunately, that’s what’s offered.”
It is? Then quit kvetchin’ Gretchen, and drink the bloody stuff and shut up. One minute you are telling us all how important it is to cosset the wealthy in our ranks because otherwise they’ll take their ball and their bag of money away with them if we don’t (all those endless stories about wealth tax and inheritance tax and this tax and that tax and the OECD this and that until any sane reader wonders if you have ANY life outside arguing on here about fiscal policy), and the next you are grumbling because the self-same rich can buy reasonably-priced wines that are better than cooking sherry to go with their coeur de filet.
And as for claims being proven, I think you must be living permanently in Bizarro World, since it has quite clearly been shown that NUMEROUS outlets are charging a great deal more for the wine in question, and even that there is a systemic fault in Australian allocations of the stuff that MAKES this happen. Supply and demand at work.
Comment by Eastern Front — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 2:44 am
Try not to frustrate yourself. Take a deep breath, read all the comments….and think. Don’t type, just think
Comment by Kristian — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 3:04 am
Thinking…
Thinking…
Reading…
Thinking…
Re-reading…
Conclusion: Kristian, get help. Or get a dog or something. Seriously. It’s probably what keeps Phil just vaguely bearable and on the “almost sane” side, for all his faults. Life is too short to waste it in your kind of verbal wanking. It will only end in tears and tenosynovitis.
Comment by Eastern Front — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 3:20 am
75. Kristian, No YOU read,
The issue with Punter the blustering gloating liar & fool is that HE offered a case of the Aus wine if it could be shown to be cheaper at Alko than in Aus. “Now, find me a price in Finland for aussie wine cheaper than it is back home, let alone 50%-60% cheaper and I’ll buy you a crate of it.†.
He made the claim that he prefers to drink Penfolds Grange (and suggested that we shouldn’t tell customs that he gets it outside Fin)
So here’s an offer for a case of his fave wine - looks like a good deal. It looks even better when it becomes so completely obvious that the same wine is being sold at Aus retailers for much more than Alko charges. Many links to references including massive Aus retailers have been presented.
Punter then ; refuses to accept the clear evidence,
suggests he didn’t care what evidence he was shown anyway,
refuses to nominate his fairytale bottle shop where he gets cheap Grange,
he refuses to stand by his offer and provide the promised wine,
makes claims that his worldly knowledge is superior ….(and so on)
and doing so bit by bit earns his title of
PUNTER THE BLUSTERING GLOATING LIAR AND FOOL.
Kristian you might like to save what little cred you might have and get off the horse that Punter is on.
Comment by pi — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 3:30 am
64. Punter the blustering gloating liar and fool “You F’ing simpletons. You just don’t get it.
No mate I looks like you don’t what is about AU$650>AU$315 that you do can’t understand?
“Even your normally leftist friends have left you. Where are all of these Aussie wines offered at-50% to 60% cheaper than Aussie price.? ” You know all those bits of pale blue text people have been putting into their posts, they’re hyperlinks and will connect you to other websites, you can click on them. Many of them have been linking to examples of wines that can be purchased for less money at Alko than in Australia. The last one I gave was this one
http://www.cellarit.com/winelist/Penfolds+Grange+Shiraz+2000.aspx?wid=41041&price=650.00&w=Penfolds
Go on click it, you’ll see an Australian retailer offering Penfolds Grange 2000 for $650 (which is more than the $315 Alko charges). You know 51.5% cheaper. There have been so many links to wines which would qualify for your promise of a case that I think you’s better start saving if everyone who showed you one called your bluff.
“You know Jack S about prices in Australia. Just speal a lot of BS then throw around insults. ” Check the opening to your comment - a general spray meant to insult any who can read. I’d say the one who refused to admit that Alko offered any product at a lower price on an Aus item than an Aus retailer doesn’t know enough to be so cocksure.
“Listen pi you little SOB, add what you want to your poor insults.” I’ve added to your title only what you have earned, Punter the blustering gloating liar and fool.
“I know the facts of Oz prices” I know you make claims to be very worldly-wise but this time your bravado has been called and shown up.
“ but I’m just waiting for you to show me examples of where, apart from your supposed Grange,” - remember YOU recommended Grange in the first place - you claimed it is your favorite wine. You’re not drinking “supposed” Grange are you (there have been Grange fakes before)? So a good point to take you up on your original offer was by using your fav wine.
“ that Alko sells OZ wine 50%-60% cheaper than Australia. C’mon you big woose. SHOW ME: ” You’ve been shown again and again (remember those little bluish bits of text - you can click on em), there’s one just a bit highr in this comment.
So once again, you’ve been shown (almost spoonfed) and it’s high time you made good your promise, Punter the blustering gloating liar and fool (P’BGLF).
Comment by pi — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 4:07 am
oops missed a closing tag while quoting P’BGLF should’ve been:
“Listen pi you little SOB, add what you want to your poor insults.â€Â
I’ve added to your title only what you have earned, Punter the blustering gloating liar and fool.
Comment by pi — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 4:29 am
“”oops missed a closing tag while quoting P’BGLF should’ve been:
“Listen pi you little SOB, add what you want to your poor insults.â€Â
I’ve added to your title only what you have earned, Punter the blustering gloating liar and fool.”" - bullshit wankers
This place should be called “Bullshit Wankers’ Thoughts”
Jesus Christ!
Comment by Dave the Slave — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
It does tend that way.
Comment by pi — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
Winestar wants AU$499 a bottle. That’s EUR 315.
It is quite pointless to quote any prices, as Punty’s fantasy bottle shop will always beat any advertised price. Even if it’s negative.
Comment by Anonymous — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 10:34 pm
#82 was me.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Jun 21st, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
Just forlornly throwing this into the pot…
http://www.bbr.com/US/db/product/57594B/Penfolds-Grange?ID=1X8QBH5X6WW00BL
I recall Berry Bros (of London, a very fine merchant, btw) were also way over the odds on the 3 bottles of Bollinger Grande Année 1995 I picked up from Alko a couple of years back - basically they had a price in pounds with the same numbers as the Alko price in euros. Alko were actually offloading it a couple of euros off list in their bargain bins. Was glorious, though I felt guilty as hell drinking it, as I’m sure it would only have got better.
Still, “enjoy every sandwich”, as Warren Zevon used to say - you never know when your ride will be here, and the last thing you want to do is to bequeath a really nice bottle to some ungrateful child or to a gnat’s piss drinker like Kristian, who’d only go selling it on eBay.
Comment by Eastern Front — Sat, Jun 23rd, 2007 @ 3:03 am
If a Finnish thing doesn’t rank in the top ten in any international study there must be something wrong with the study. I mean honestly, folks, do you really think that there are 29 cities in the world where the quality of life is better than in Helsinki?
By the way, Punter, did you know that if the long-term trend continues Finland’s GDP per capita will exceed that of the USA in about 20 years? Australia was left behind years ago. Strange for a country full of stupid assholes.
I hope, by the way, that the Finns have the good sense not to pursue for more money but rather for happier life. We are, after all, about the unhappiest nation in the world.
And I’m sure that what I wrote above is not altogether correct, grammatically, which gives Punter a reason to ridicule the Finnish schooling system … in excellent Finnish, of course.
Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Jun 23rd, 2007 @ 11:42 am