from kids to commies.. how funny!!!!
http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.7.14.22219.3493.html

“And obviously, it also discriminates against single people whose tax money disproportionately pays for services from which they’ll never benefit.”

Although it may not be directly beneficial toward single people, the end result is. That is, it is to everyones benefit to have more working professionals who contribute to the economy. These kids will eventually be paying our elake as well, thinking long term.

Also, this so called “tax discrimination” argument can be applied to almost every tax that is on the books. I work out 3-5 times per week, eat healthy food and am very conscious about my health status. Therefore, a large part of the health care system is pretty much a waste of my money, as I will probably never get these common “lifestyle” diseases.

And the posts keep getting dumber…

How does offering parents the *option* of daycare ‘force a state-prescribed solution’ you retard? You libertarians are so fucking eager to throw the charge of social engineering around when the state offers choices you don’t like, even when you spend the rest of your time harping on about choice, choice, choice. Make your mind up. Charging fees and removing/undermining the choice between daycare and having kids at home is obviously what *limits* or *prescribes* the options. Limiting them to this: if your poor, or a woman, go fuck yourselves, if you work, you’re money will go to paying for daycare and you’ll stay poor. If you keep the kids at home, you live off benefits and stay poor. Oh, and don’t worry, you can have it free still if you admit your kids need protection and you’re an abject failure as a parent. Nice.

And what the fuck, single people being ‘discriminated’ against for having to pay for helping other people have and raise children. What so we shouldn’t have a maternity service at all, because only mothers benefit from it (from selfishly not dying in labour)? How fucking stupid are you? Where do you think the next generation of Finns are going to come from? And how (assuming all political life is solely about personal benefit, which thank fuck it isn’t for the non-libertarian) is it not beneficial to you for there to be a next generation of Finns? Typically myopic.

Also, i like the way the thread from earlier which you got panned on has mysteriously disappeared… Free speech can be such a pain in the ass can’t it?

Somehow I don’t think Kristian has any rugrats. Then again, how would he have the time to sire them, since he’s so busy procreating on here.

Still, kudos for a thread that doesn’t mention the OECD. Must have been a bitch to leave them out.

2 rugrats, and never had any Government service to raise them. Guess I am not the norm in this world, as I think that if you have 2 rugrats, then you get the responsability, not others.

Guess I don’t like to pick the pockets of my neighbors. (For more freebees)

Who in the fuck would believe that I’d wish for Phil?

Please Kristian, as a matter of courtesy to those that contributed and for the benefit of the “occasional visitor” replace the censored article and comments.

And I thought that I was hallucinating when perusing the recenst titles here: there really WAS a (silly as usual) post about public transport with some heated comments that has now quite interestingly disappeared without any explanations. Did the kitchen get too hot, Kristian, Phil? Typical of course of libertarians that they don’t live like they preach! Well, I don’t think there was a copyright issue at least as Kristian’s “opinions” were painfully evidently home made… Hmm, hopefully these kinds of mystical “disappearances” of articles won’t become a common practice on this site.

Get off his case people. Don’t know how many of you have young children however the subject of daycare in Finland and some of the problems with it is indeed an interesting topic. It’s not quite the miracle many believe and is indeed the first step to State control and spreading the SDP message onto a new generation. Not to mention the good little Christian values……….

Your nose is so brown, Punter.

Regarding childcare, I agree with Unit.

It’s the cycle of life. Although single people don’t have children and still have to contribute to chilcare, it is also likely and possible that taxpayers (single and couples) of the past have paid to support the childcare of those now grown single people. Single people were once tiny tots and in childcare themselves and someone somewhere was paying too.
So they are now supporting the children of the future, just as those single people were all once children of the future. And these children today will in the future be supporting children when they are older and still single. Circle of life. Stop looking at everything from the perspective of a moment in time and see the bigger picture.

And your point is? Do you have any experience with this system in Finland? I do and it is basically flawed. I just happen to agree with part of Kristians point. As for the color of my nose well at least it’s not pink.

I think it’s a very convenient idea to support children’s daycare, also if you think it economically. Near-replacement fertility rates can be considered a public good and if they can be delivered by supporting families through public services then fine. In the long run it easens every taxpayer’s fiscal burden.

What I do find curious is that nursery schools in Finland aren’t free, whereas the universities still are. It’s unfair.

As an only child, raised amidst the depression (born in 1988) I spent my early childhood at “family day-cares”, i.e people who stay at home with their kids and get some others to be looked after as well. I think it didn’t screw me up too bad, but being restricted to a small circle of children of my owm age,it would have been difficult to adapt to school life had it not been for free daycare after the age of five.

When only looking at the cost of certain services it’s easy to forget the unmentioned benefits. For many kids the place where they meet new kids of their same age is the kindergarten, school or some activities that their parents sponsor. Daycare, even though it costs quite a bit for the average tax payer, gives kids a chance to get to know new people and learn to work in groups before they are actually expected to start their academic career. Looking at some of my own friends I can say that they would have needed a dose of daycare before entering school so that they would have realised that you can’t act the same way you do at home when you’re surrounded by other people. I’d rather pay for free daycare than someone’s shrink that they visit three times a week because they have a hard time fitting into the society because their parents wanted to avoid conformity while raising them.

The problem with paying taxes is that you never seem to benefit from them directly. Singles have to pay more than married couples and also support things like maternity leaves, daycare and the overall schooling system. People who abhor drinking have to pay taxes that are used to treat alcoholics. I thought that’s how the system works. You pay a chunk of money, it gets spread around the society and if you’re ever in a bad place you at least hope that this time the taxes people pay would help you as well.

And yes, I am a bit sceptical about our new government but we should give them a chance, right? it’s not like social democrats saved the country during their time leading the nation. :>

great Cartoon today at Day by day cartoon day by day

This will not be in the BBC…ever

Hee: “it is also likely and possible that taxpayers (single and couples) of the past have paid to support the childcare of those now grown single people.”

It’s true, however that is largely dictated by the system. Neither party could have opted-out. Some of my family opted-out—e.g. my parents and some others today—but the system in general causes them hardship. It’s not how they want to live.

Unit: “These kids will eventually be paying our elake as well, thinking long term.”

That’s true, but again, we can’t opt-out of the eläke system. I favor the a small base pension + private investment. It would be more-or-less independent of population growth. I think the current system is a big mistake for already-overpopulated-Europe—always needing warm bodies to keep the process going. Just imagine the effects of a famine…

“Daycare, even though it costs quite a bit for the average tax payer, gives kids a chance to get to know new people”

I agree, and generally I’m in favor of supporting half-day service for that purpose. Plus, it would give parents who opt-out a more equal chance.

That seems to be the direction of the new government. I only question whether they are hitting low-income earners and single moms too hard.

In the ancient Rome it was the Republic and the father who took care of the male kids’ growing up and education. Results were rather good. Christians and economists spoiled that exellent system, I say.
Assuming the kid’s and citizen’s point of view, who will give the best education? Mama and papa often being a couple of boring dummies, you tell me.

#4: “Also, i like the way the thread from earlier which you got panned on has mysteriously disappeared… Free speech can be such a pain in the ass can’t it?”

Yes, I wondered about this too. Perhaps Kristian realised that his position was utterly untenable, though I seriously doubt it…

So Kristian, are you intending to continue to ignore all comments about the censorship of your earlier post about public transport and all the contibutor’s comments?

Will you explain their removal?

Better still just replace it so readers can make their own judgements.

ride a bike (#2)!

FYI, on the topic of Kristian’s disappearing blog entry, I have started a discussion here:

http://forum.finlandforthought.net/viewtopic.php?t=41

Why has the bus / public transport article been removed?
Is is possible we can have an answer to this question?

I don’t really see any point in commenting on this present article until that question is answered as who knows, should my opinion differ from Kristian’s it might just “disappear”.

Well well.. It’s been a while since I’ve posted anything here but I see that Kristian has just gotten worse (if possible). His hypocricy and cencorship doesn’t surprise me in the least though.

Yes, FFT is definitely biting the dust. It’s a shame, really. Phil, you should’ve thought more about who you trust.

The last one leaving, please turn out the lights on your way out.

Now there’s an article saying that the daycare will be kept ‘free’ for certain groups, i.e. low income folks/students/deadbeats. So…how is that fair that those who pay lots more taxes get fewer services and have to pay to have the same services that they pay out the arse for? It’s not like those ‘rich’ folks with two incomes, a mortgage and a kid or three have that much cash to spare to pay for something they used to enjoy for their tax money. I thought the government wanted to encourage people to have more children…..

Åboy: “His hypocricy and cencorship doesn’t surprise me in the least though.”

Åboy, the post is right here. I even explained what happened. So don’t listen to any clowns who tell you otherwise.
http://www.finlandforthought.net/2007/05/25/finns-choosing-overpriced-cars-over-sparse-public-transit/

Åboy: “Yes, FFT is definitely biting the dust.”

Nice try, but that’s not what the hit counter indicates

“Nice try, but that’s not what the hit counter indicates ” – Kristian

McDonald’s has a lot of customers too, but you don’t see most of the punters winning Olympic medals or marathons, eh?

It’s the quality not the quantity that matters.

Basically nothing seems worth doing, but whatever.
I just don’t have anything to say recently, but eh. Not much on my mind right now, but that’s how it is.

I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen.
More or less not much happening right now. I just don’t have anything to say right now, but it’s not important.

I haven’t been up to anything recently. My life’s been really boring lately.
Whatever. Today was a complete loss. Basically nothing seems important.

I haven’t been up to anything recently. My life’s been really boring lately.
Whatever. Today was a complete loss. Basically nothing seems important.

I just don’t have much to say these days, but I guess it doesn’t bother me.
What can I say? I haven’t been up to much these days.
More or less nothing seems worth bothering with.

I can’t be bothered with anything lately. Maybe tomorrow. Such is life.
I haven’t been up to much recently, not that it matters.
Basically not much happening these days, but eh.

I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen.
I haven’t gotten much done lately.
My life’s been completely bland lately, but so it goes. Not much on my mind these days.