New coalition seeks improvements to daycare system
@ 9:32 pm I’m entirely in favor of giving parents greater choices in deciding how to raise their children, and it looks like the ruling coalition is taking praiseworthy steps in that direction—at least, in spirit so far. The issue involves daycare. It’s no secret that many people around the world envy Finland’s universal daycare system, whereby mothers can pay small fees to disclaim their little ones while going off to work. How liberating!
But only for some. Unfortunately, what many proponents don’t realize is that the system discriminates against those parents who’d like to raise children according to their own wishes rather than in conformance with some state-prescribed solution. And obviously, it also discriminates against single people whose tax money disproportionately pays for services from which they’ll never benefit.
So the new government aims to make the system fairer for everyone concerned. However, it is coming under fire for targeting those at the lower end of the income spectrum with fee increases. The first half-day of daycare will remain free paid-for by taxpayers, but more fees would be garnered from users of the second half-day of service.
Whether this is a just criticism, I don’t know. But ultimately, if they get the details ironed-out, an increased initiative in the fee-for-service direction could potentially be spot-on. Let’s hope for the best.
from kids to commies.. how funny!!!!
http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.7.14.22219.3493.html
Comment by Jim Z — Sat, May 26th, 2007 @ 10:08 pm
“And obviously, it also discriminates against single people whose tax money disproportionately pays for services from which they’ll never benefit.”
Although it may not be directly beneficial toward single people, the end result is. That is, it is to everyones benefit to have more working professionals who contribute to the economy. These kids will eventually be paying our elake as well, thinking long term.
Also, this so called “tax discrimination” argument can be applied to almost every tax that is on the books. I work out 3-5 times per week, eat healthy food and am very conscious about my health status. Therefore, a large part of the health care system is pretty much a waste of my money, as I will probably never get these common “lifestyle” diseases.
Comment by Unit — Sat, May 26th, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
And the posts keep getting dumber…
How does offering parents the *option* of daycare ‘force a state-prescribed solution’ you retard? You libertarians are so fucking eager to throw the charge of social engineering around when the state offers choices you don’t like, even when you spend the rest of your time harping on about choice, choice, choice. Make your mind up. Charging fees and removing/undermining the choice between daycare and having kids at home is obviously what *limits* or *prescribes* the options. Limiting them to this: if your poor, or a woman, go fuck yourselves, if you work, you’re money will go to paying for daycare and you’ll stay poor. If you keep the kids at home, you live off benefits and stay poor. Oh, and don’t worry, you can have it free still if you admit your kids need protection and you’re an abject failure as a parent. Nice.
And what the fuck, single people being ‘discriminated’ against for having to pay for helping other people have and raise children. What so we shouldn’t have a maternity service at all, because only mothers benefit from it (from selfishly not dying in labour)? How fucking stupid are you? Where do you think the next generation of Finns are going to come from? And how (assuming all political life is solely about personal benefit, which thank fuck it isn’t for the non-libertarian) is it not beneficial to you for there to be a next generation of Finns? Typically myopic.
Comment by Rich — Sat, May 26th, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
Also, i like the way the thread from earlier which you got panned on has mysteriously disappeared… Free speech can be such a pain in the ass can’t it?
Comment by Rich — Sat, May 26th, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
Somehow I don’t think Kristian has any rugrats. Then again, how would he have the time to sire them, since he’s so busy procreating on here.
Still, kudos for a thread that doesn’t mention the OECD. Must have been a bitch to leave them out.
Comment by Nimi muutettu — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 12:06 am
2 rugrats, and never had any Government service to raise them. Guess I am not the norm in this world, as I think that if you have 2 rugrats, then you get the responsability, not others.
Guess I don’t like to pick the pockets of my neighbors. (For more freebees)
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 3:45 am
Who in the fuck would believe that I’d wish for Phil?
Comment by Dave the Slave — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 5:50 am
Please Kristian, as a matter of courtesy to those that contributed and for the benefit of the “occasional visitor” replace the censored article and comments.
Comment by pi — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 6:08 am
And I thought that I was hallucinating when perusing the recenst titles here: there really WAS a (silly as usual) post about public transport with some heated comments that has now quite interestingly disappeared without any explanations. Did the kitchen get too hot, Kristian, Phil? Typical of course of libertarians that they don’t live like they preach! Well, I don’t think there was a copyright issue at least as Kristian’s “opinions” were painfully evidently home made… Hmm, hopefully these kinds of mystical “disappearances” of articles won’t become a common practice on this site.
Comment by mjr — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 9:18 am
Get off his case people. Don’t know how many of you have young children however the subject of daycare in Finland and some of the problems with it is indeed an interesting topic. It’s not quite the miracle many believe and is indeed the first step to State control and spreading the SDP message onto a new generation. Not to mention the good little Christian values……….
Comment by Punter — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Your nose is so brown, Punter.
Comment by Dave the Slave — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
Regarding childcare, I agree with Unit.
It’s the cycle of life. Although single people don’t have children and still have to contribute to chilcare, it is also likely and possible that taxpayers (single and couples) of the past have paid to support the childcare of those now grown single people. Single people were once tiny tots and in childcare themselves and someone somewhere was paying too.
So they are now supporting the children of the future, just as those single people were all once children of the future. And these children today will in the future be supporting children when they are older and still single. Circle of life. Stop looking at everything from the perspective of a moment in time and see the bigger picture.
Comment by Hee — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
And your point is? Do you have any experience with this system in Finland? I do and it is basically flawed. I just happen to agree with part of Kristians point. As for the color of my nose well at least it’s not pink.
Comment by Punter — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
I think it’s a very convenient idea to support children’s daycare, also if you think it economically. Near-replacement fertility rates can be considered a public good and if they can be delivered by supporting families through public services then fine. In the long run it easens every taxpayer’s fiscal burden.
What I do find curious is that nursery schools in Finland aren’t free, whereas the universities still are. It’s unfair.
Comment by Aapo — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
As an only child, raised amidst the depression (born in 1988) I spent my early childhood at “family day-cares”, i.e people who stay at home with their kids and get some others to be looked after as well. I think it didn’t screw me up too bad, but being restricted to a small circle of children of my owm age,it would have been difficult to adapt to school life had it not been for free daycare after the age of five.
When only looking at the cost of certain services it’s easy to forget the unmentioned benefits. For many kids the place where they meet new kids of their same age is the kindergarten, school or some activities that their parents sponsor. Daycare, even though it costs quite a bit for the average tax payer, gives kids a chance to get to know new people and learn to work in groups before they are actually expected to start their academic career. Looking at some of my own friends I can say that they would have needed a dose of daycare before entering school so that they would have realised that you can’t act the same way you do at home when you’re surrounded by other people. I’d rather pay for free daycare than someone’s shrink that they visit three times a week because they have a hard time fitting into the society because their parents wanted to avoid conformity while raising them.
The problem with paying taxes is that you never seem to benefit from them directly. Singles have to pay more than married couples and also support things like maternity leaves, daycare and the overall schooling system. People who abhor drinking have to pay taxes that are used to treat alcoholics. I thought that’s how the system works. You pay a chunk of money, it gets spread around the society and if you’re ever in a bad place you at least hope that this time the taxes people pay would help you as well.
And yes, I am a bit sceptical about our new government but we should give them a chance, right? it’s not like social democrats saved the country during their time leading the nation. :>
Comment by lilly — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
great Cartoon today at Day by day cartoon day by day
This will not be in the BBC…ever
Comment by winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission†— Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 4:09 pm
Hee: “it is also likely and possible that taxpayers (single and couples) of the past have paid to support the childcare of those now grown single people.”
It’s true, however that is largely dictated by the system. Neither party could have opted-out. Some of my family opted-out—e.g. my parents and some others today—but the system in general causes them hardship. It’s not how they want to live.
Unit: “These kids will eventually be paying our elake as well, thinking long term.”
That’s true, but again, we can’t opt-out of the eläke system. I favor the a small base pension + private investment. It would be more-or-less independent of population growth. I think the current system is a big mistake for already-overpopulated-Europe—always needing warm bodies to keep the process going. Just imagine the effects of a famine…
Comment by Kristian — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
“Daycare, even though it costs quite a bit for the average tax payer, gives kids a chance to get to know new people”
I agree, and generally I’m in favor of supporting half-day service for that purpose. Plus, it would give parents who opt-out a more equal chance.
That seems to be the direction of the new government. I only question whether they are hitting low-income earners and single moms too hard.
Comment by Kristian — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
In the ancient Rome it was the Republic and the father who took care of the male kids’ growing up and education. Results were rather good. Christians and economists spoiled that exellent system, I say.
Assuming the kid’s and citizen’s point of view, who will give the best education? Mama and papa often being a couple of boring dummies, you tell me.
Comment by strudel — Sun, May 27th, 2007 @ 7:45 pm
#4: “Also, i like the way the thread from earlier which you got panned on has mysteriously disappeared… Free speech can be such a pain in the ass can’t it?”
Yes, I wondered about this too. Perhaps Kristian realised that his position was utterly untenable, though I seriously doubt it…
Comment by DavidH — Mon, May 28th, 2007 @ 2:26 am
So Kristian, are you intending to continue to ignore all comments about the censorship of your earlier post about public transport and all the contibutor’s comments?
Will you explain their removal?
Better still just replace it so readers can make their own judgements.
Comment by pi — Mon, May 28th, 2007 @ 4:23 am
ride a bike (#2)!
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, May 28th, 2007 @ 10:37 am
FYI, on the topic of Kristian’s disappearing blog entry, I have started a discussion here:
http://forum.finlandforthought.net/viewtopic.php?t=41
Comment by Dave the Slave — Mon, May 28th, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
Why has the bus / public transport article been removed?
Is is possible we can have an answer to this question?
I don’t really see any point in commenting on this present article until that question is answered as who knows, should my opinion differ from Kristian’s it might just “disappear”.
Comment by JG — Mon, May 28th, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
Well well.. It’s been a while since I’ve posted anything here but I see that Kristian has just gotten worse (if possible). His hypocricy and cencorship doesn’t surprise me in the least though.
Yes, FFT is definitely biting the dust. It’s a shame, really. Phil, you should’ve thought more about who you trust.
The last one leaving, please turn out the lights on your way out.
Comment by Åboy — Tue, May 29th, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
Now there’s an article saying that the daycare will be kept ‘free’ for certain groups, i.e. low income folks/students/deadbeats. So…how is that fair that those who pay lots more taxes get fewer services and have to pay to have the same services that they pay out the arse for? It’s not like those ‘rich’ folks with two incomes, a mortgage and a kid or three have that much cash to spare to pay for something they used to enjoy for their tax money. I thought the government wanted to encourage people to have more children…..
Comment by hfb — Tue, May 29th, 2007 @ 7:39 pm
Åboy: “His hypocricy and cencorship doesn’t surprise me in the least though.”
Åboy, the post is right here. I even explained what happened. So don’t listen to any clowns who tell you otherwise.
http://www.finlandforthought.net/2007/05/25/finns-choosing-overpriced-cars-over-sparse-public-transit/
Åboy: “Yes, FFT is definitely biting the dust.”
Nice try, but that’s not what the hit counter indicates
Comment by Kristian — Tue, May 29th, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
“Nice try, but that’s not what the hit counter indicates
” – Kristian
McDonald’s has a lot of customers too, but you don’t see most of the punters winning Olympic medals or marathons, eh?
It’s the quality not the quantity that matters.
Comment by Dave the Slave — Wed, May 30th, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
Basically nothing seems worth doing, but whatever.
I just don’t have anything to say recently, but eh. Not much on my mind right now, but that’s how it is.
Comment by home insurence — Wed, Aug 1st, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen.
More or less not much happening right now. I just don’t have anything to say right now, but it’s not important.
Comment by tropicial fish — Fri, Aug 3rd, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
I haven’t been up to anything recently. My life’s been really boring lately.
Whatever. Today was a complete loss. Basically nothing seems important.
Comment by 8gb n91 nokia — Wed, Aug 8th, 2007 @ 7:59 am
I haven’t been up to anything recently. My life’s been really boring lately.
Whatever. Today was a complete loss. Basically nothing seems important.
Comment by dictionary websters — Fri, Aug 10th, 2007 @ 6:55 am
I just don’t have much to say these days, but I guess it doesn’t bother me.
What can I say? I haven’t been up to much these days.
More or less nothing seems worth bothering with.
Comment by www websters dictionary — Sat, Aug 11th, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
I can’t be bothered with anything lately. Maybe tomorrow. Such is life.
I haven’t been up to much recently, not that it matters.
Basically not much happening these days, but eh.
Comment by bussiness-travel — Fri, Aug 17th, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen.
I haven’t gotten much done lately.
My life’s been completely bland lately, but so it goes. Not much on my mind these days.
Comment by spainish-translation — Sun, Aug 19th, 2007 @ 9:55 pm