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21.5.2007

Does Stefan Wallin have gender identity issues?

Tags: Everything — Author:   @ 4:53 am

Here on Finland for Thought, we like to discuss how heavily Finns rely on the nanny-state government. It dictates how much Finns should pay for such things as alcohol and cars, and it even sees fit to publicize their personal financial information against their individual consent. Unflinchingly, Finns acquiesce to its parental guiding hand. Now, that same guiding hand is telling Finnish parents that they aren’t capable of making the right decisions, and that their decisions are leading to unfairness in society. More specifically, the issue centers around gender identity. So, the newly elected government has dispatched an expert in protecting us, members of society, from our own seething morass. His name is Stefan Wallin. Perhaps he’s from Sweden; how appropriate for such a social engineering task.

His clarion call is for ‘men’ to start taking over the role which nature has so perfectly ascribed to mothers. I was very curious about how this ‘expert’ arrived at such an oddball strategy that seems so contrary to human behavior. After all, he must know something that has mysteriously eluded the evolution of our species for millions of years. So, I researched the topic and found this….

Wow! Until now, I always assumed that humans were formed in the binary sense. That is, men are men, and women are women. But now I see that life isn’t so simple. Aberrations are bound to exist, and there’s a whole range of gender identities with their respective behavioral traits to consider. Fine, I can accept that. And I think we should avoid discriminating against- or treating with disdain- those with gender identity issues. Apparently, these matters are decided well in advance, before we are born.

Although we might surmise that those who support government initiatives to correct such perceived inequities would like to see their own gender identity issues legitimized, I won’t speculate on any possible gender identity issues concerning our Swede, Mr. Wallin. I’ll leave that for you, the reader, to decide. And I will assume that he only aims to help those who have such issues. However, despite his good bizarre intentions, I must ask him kindly: In light of exorbitant consumer prices, low purchasing power and ultra-high taxation in Finland, PLEASE don’t add insult to injury by using our hard-earned tax money to fund your SOCIAL ENGINEERING schemes!

  • winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

    Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism,” in San Francisco.

    They hate Israel/Jews so much, they’re completely blind to the fact that in their beloved “Palestine,” guys with hairy arms wearing brassieres don’t just get funny looks from the passersby. They end up in ditches, riddled with Hamas or Islamic Jihad bullets, or stabbed to death by a brother or cousin.

    While in Israel, they hold an annual gay pride parade.

    (I know, I’m a racist for pointing it out.)

    Here’s a page at Nazimedia where they’ve posted the story of their latest exploit, a high-quality street theater piece performed in front of a Victoria’s Secret store in Union Square:

    Link : I Dreamed I Went to Gaza In My Secret Armor Bra.

  • Rich

    It doesn’t sound like Mr Wallinn has any gender issues. It just sounds like he doesn’t live in the stone age.

    Also, it takes an acute mind to comprehend the whole issue of societally constructed gender identities and their adaptation over time just from watching a TV news documentary. Hats off to you.

  • Unit

    “PLEASE don’t use our hard-earned tax money to fund your SOCIAL ENGINEERING schemes!”

    You couldn’t have said it any better. Governments(not only in Finland) would be wise to listen to such prudent advice.

  • http://www.verosirkus.com Sirkuspelle

    If you are a parent, you can kind of understand what he is driving at. I was unemployed at home with my children for 8 months. That was quite a nice time. The children were about 1 and 3 at the time.

    I also suppose that the government would rather a high salary mother to stay at work and have a low salary father stay home. It means more tax money.

  • http://anzisblog.blogspot.com Anzi

    Wow! Until now, I always assumed that humans were formed in the binary sense. That is, men are men, and women are women. But now I see that life isn’t so simple. Aberrations are bound to exist, and there’s a whole range of gender identities to consider. Fine, I can accept that. And I think we should avoid discriminating against- or treating with disdain- those with gender identity issues. Apparently, these matters are decided well in advance, before we are born.

    And you just figured this out? Are you telling me that for over 25 years, you lived without the knowledge of the difference between gender and sex, and social and biological genders? You have never met a transvestite or a transsexual person? Or just regular people who do not conform to many of society’s stereotypes about the so-called “roles” of men and women?

    Excuse me while I go find my eyes. I think that they just rolled all the way over to Greenland.

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    “And I think we should avoid discriminating against- or treating with disdain- those with gender identity issues.” – Kristian

    But in the same article you write to the effect of “oh Wallin is Swedish so he must have gender identity issues/gay.”

    Isn’t that disdain?

    I haven’t looked carefully at the details of this issue, but it would seem to me (as a former father of infants) that it would have been cool to have the choice to stay at home… But that was (most recently) almost 10 years ago. What is your beef with encouraging men to be more a part of the family? Don’t they do that in Germany? ;-)

  • AbnerMarsh

    Although I can understand some of your (Kristian’s) frustration about certain policies and realities in Finland, I am beginning to be extermely annoyed by you repeating yourself constantly. Also, I think that you are making a fool out of yourself when trying to correlate just anything to taxes, purchasing power and privacy.
    The longer you do it, the more it sounds like brainwashing and at least I don’t like to be brainwashed.
    Knowing that Phil won’t blog much except some holiday pictures for the next 10 days or so, I hope you come up with something more intersting soon.
    However, if you want to continue with your current repertory, you could, for example, write about this recent YLE article (http://www.yle.fi/news/index.html). It’s easy to combine it with car tax (cars are mentioned!), high income tax & purchasing power (these people are too poor to buy new glasses), and invading people’s privacy (what concern is my eyesight to the police). I leave the integration of alcohol tax to you. I’m sure you’ll find a creative way to build it in somehow.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism,” in San Francisco.

    winter, do you wear your French white flag of surrender on the left or right?

  • mog

    Take your hand off it Kristian, constantly making love to a male fist may distort your gender identity.

  • David

    Gender has never been strictly binary in nature (hermaphrodite; man who naturally develops breasts…) . It’s the social structure that ‘regulates’ what deems to be acceptable.

    But this article is not about gender identity – it’s about parental responsibility towards children. Our society has been more complex than the the stone age or even the 18-century one – economical pressure makes both mid-class parents taking up work, in order to sustain a standard level of living. (Since Kristian has a habit of pointing anything and everything to taxation in Finland, let me make it clear that this happens in all urban area in developed countries.)

    Traditionally, and stereotypically, the society reckons that women should take up the responsibility of raising the child while men try to earn enough salary. But this puts emotional stress on the working mothers. (Taking care of children requires the full attention and in it itself is not necessarily all rewarding.) It also strains the family financially, because now there is an extra person spending the single source of income. While fathers spend all their time at work, the time he/they can spend with their children is limited as well.

    Nowadays, many fathers would like to participate their child’s childhood, and share their wives’ burden. But, quoting the article, “Mere campaigning and manipulation of attitudes are not enough in the opinion of Jenni Kellokumpu. Legislative changes is also needed, which would eventually filter down to attitudes.”

    When men are able to share the pain and the joy in the growth of their children, I see it’s a good thing. Say what you like, but some people did appreciate the chances to know their father before it’s too late.

    Following this trend of thought, UK is planning to extends the paternal (father) leaves to 26 weeks for the second half of a child’s first year, if the mother wanted to return to work. 26 weeks, that translate to roughly 6 months paid-leaves. While economics might take a small hit, I reckon this trade-off is worthwhile. ( Reference: http://www.bcentral.co.uk/sbnews/18148565/Additional-leave-and-pay-for-new-fathers.mspx )

  • http://stockholmslender.blogspot.com/ mjr

    Hmm, Kristian, you do sound quite retro… And it’s not nice to perpetuate Suomalaisuuden Liitto talking points: Stefan Wallin is a Swedish speaking Finn, not a Swede. And no, neither Swedish speaking Finns nor Swedes are particularly gay. It’s not that nice to use such crude stereotypes to describe whole groups of people.

    Anyway, bonus points for getting the infamous welfare state mixed into this, bit laboriously and clumsily of course, but at least you got it in! (I guess you have a quota or something.)

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    According to Kristian, there are two acceptable roles for women:

    1. Barefoot and pregnant
    2. In heels, walking the streets at night

    It might be the other way around, though.

  • http://roguepolitical.net Kai

    What complete and utter drivel. Seriously, Kristian, your writing is putting me off reading this blog. At least the other writes (occasionally) have a valid point.

  • Kaislis

    Hmm, it seems to me, that you are the one having gender identity issues , but then, I suppose you come from the small town America, were attitudes are straight from 1950′s. Our system suits to us, you Americans do what you please in your own country.

  • Kristian

    DAVE THE SLAVE: ““And I think we should avoid discriminating against- or treating with disdain- those with gender identity issues.” – Kristian

    But in the same article you write to the effect of “oh Wallin is Swedish so he must have gender identity issues/gay.”

    Isn’t that disdain?

    No, I don’t mean that Wallin or Swedes are gay. I don’t know one way or the other. Instead, I mean that Swedes are known for social engineering. Also, gender identity issues don’t necessarily mean that someone is gay, per se. I made a slight change in that last sentence, so as not to confuse anyone.

  • Kristian

    AbnerMarsh: “The longer you do it, the more it sounds like brainwashing and at least I don’t like to be brainwashed.

    Yes, but realize that there are people who only visit here occasionally. Shouldn’t they have an opportunity to read it, too?

  • http://ihmissuhteet.blogspot.com/ Henry

    Wallin said in HS interview, that “He is a radical feminist”. Hey seriously, if you know the ideas of radical feminists, it sounds a bit scary.

    http://www.hs.fi/kulttuuri/artikkeli/Stefan+Wallin+kutsuu+itse%C3%A4%C3%A4n+radikaaliksi+feministiksi/1135226874387

    “Uusi kulttuuri- ja urheiluministeri Stefan Wallin (r) kutsuu itseään radikaaliksi feministiksi.”

    http://no-maam.blogspot.com/2007/03/in-their-own-words.html

    A few radical feminist thoughts:

    “Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession… The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn’t be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that” — Vivian Gornick

    “And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual [male], it may be mainly a quantitative difference.” — Susan Griffin

    “[The nuclear family is] a cornerstone of woman’s oppression: it enforces women’s dependence on men, it enforces heterosexuality and it imposes the prevailing masculine and feminine character structures on the next generation.” — Alison Jaggar

    “Feminism, Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist government is the goal of feminism.” — Catharine A. MacKinnon

    “All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.” — Catharine MacKinnon

    “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” — Robin Morgan

    “I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire.” — Robin Morgan

  • Kristian

    Sirkuspelle: “I also suppose that the government would rather a high salary mother to stay at work and have a low salary father stay home.

    That’s not what he’s doing. He wants to ensure a particular social outcome at our expense. It’s not about who earns more. Regardless, why does government need to be “encouraging fathers to take parental leave?” Shouldn’t it be for parents to decide?

    To me, it makes no sense for government to interfere in peoples’ family lives. Such decisions belong in the private sphere.

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    Regardless, you still refer to him as a “Swede,” and this as far as I know is not the case. He is a Swedish speaking Finn.

    I dunno, your position on this seems to make less and less sense to me the more I read it. Why not try and think about it as the government’s attmept to “make clear the opportunity” for fathers to take this time with this children rather than “encourage?”

    I don’t see anything wrong with it, and I doubt anybody younger than Archie Bunker would either. ;-)

  • Kristian

    I dunno, your position on this seems to make less and less sense to me the more I read it.

    Have you considered reading comprehension courses?

  • N. Siinistö

    I seem to remember Kristian having issues with Swedes before. Probably sheer purchasing-power envy.

  • AmeriikanEnkeli

    Kaislis,

    My understanding is that Kristian is a Finn. Please don’t stereotype Americans.

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    “Have you considered reading comprehension courses?” – Kristian

    No, but have you considered that women do other things than poop out babies and clean up after you?
    :-D

  • Anonymous

    Kristian

    “I don’t think that gender identity issues necessarily mean that someone is gay”

    You can also say that someone has “Gender Nonconformity” like in the 60 Minutes segment you linked. It means they may have male physical parts, but their behavior is more like a woman.

    It would perfectly describe someone who is male but acts as mother to an infant child, changing diapers, etc. I would say it is not normal behavior.

  • Anonymous

    One more thing. I too think Stefen Wallin is.. Lets say, abnormal.

  • ääh

    Sometimes people dont understand what they speak. Feminist arent always right there is lot of critique to feminist theories and i think most of them is right, like gender and queer theory what is mostly feminist bullshit. Stefan Wallin opinnion might be right but i really think Kristian is right this time and we should be more critical to opinion like this, feminist seems to have lot of power in goverment.

  • maksalaatikko

    “Hmm, it seems to me, that you are the one having gender identity issues , but then, I suppose you come from the small town America, were attitudes are straight from 1950’s.”

    As opposed to small town Finland were additudes are from the 1890s.

    By the way, Kristian is a Finn.

  • GI Joe’s a Eunuch

    “You couldn’t have said it any better. Governments(not only in Finland) would be wise to listen to such prudent advice.”

    Couldn’t have said it better myself, Unit. I think you are my missing part.

  • http://fredfryinternational.blogspot.com/ Fred Fry

    Hmm. I guess that the Government will move to forced leave for fathers at some point.

    As it so happens I just became a dad again last week. (And yes, I was at work today for a half-day.)

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    –> 28:

    Only half a day at work? What are you, a poof?

  • http://fredfryinternational.blogspot.com/ Fred Fry

    Dave,

    Working from home……

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    ;-)

  • Kristian

    Congratulations Fred!

    I can understand hanging around for the time shortly after birth to help with errands, etc., especially if there are no female relatives around. And it’s also a time to bond with the new kid.

    But when a guy steps into the caregiver role, then there’s probably a good chance that there’s a gender identity issue—unless there’s something unavoidable like sudden unemployment.

    All things considered though, it should be left for the parents to decide these things. Government shouldn’t be encouraging behavior in one way or the other.

  • winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

    “winter, do you wear your French white flag of surrender on the left or right?”

    per the last French election, where they figured out that surrender was not an option, I have dropped that line.

    Sorry

  • winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

    “there are two acceptable roles for women:

    1. Barefoot and pregnant
    2. In heels, walking the streets at night”

    what happened to whips and chains?

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    what happened to whips and chains?

    Kristian is probably a little intimidated by those.

    per the last French election, where they figured out that surrender was not an option, I have dropped that line.

    France elects a new conservative president and suddenly the fries are French again. I’ll be damned. So when will we see the French deployment in Eye-Rack?

  • Thomas

    Kristian:

    “Have you considered reading comprehension courses?”

    Have you. I don’t know what you read – if anything – but not being able to understand that Stefan Wallin is a FINN (although swedish-speaking) demonstrates a rather high incomprehension of reading. Or then it simply points out a rather low intellectual ability in general.

    “All things considered though, it should be left to the parents to decide these things. Government shouldn’t be encouraging behavior in one way or the other.”

    Governments encourage all kinds of behaviours all around the world constantly. For example, taxation and the use of tax revenues (your favourite subject), is used to encourage people one way or the other. Any sane person understands that it is easy for the government to e.g. “force” (mainly, since generally they are less well payed) women to act as house-wives. Simply make child-care more expensive (e.g. by privatising it), than the median “female salary”. Then you effectively achieve the society you are so horny about.

    But of course, if the government would take these measures, they wouldn’t be ENCOURAGING ANYONE, in ANY WAY. Right?

  • Kristian

    but not being able to understand that Stefan Wallin is a FINN (although swedish-speaking)

    I see him more as a Swede than a Finn-Swede.

    Governments encourage all kinds of behaviours all around the world constantly.

    Exactly. That’s what we need to stop. Pay attention to this blog, and we’ll teach you how.

    Simply make child-care more expensive (e.g. by privatising it), than the median “female salary”. Then you effectively achieve the society you are so horny about.

    Interesting.

  • winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

    “France elects a new conservative president and suddenly the fries are French again. I’ll be damned. So when will we see the French deployment in Eye-Rack?”

    yep, no more tasty Freedom Fries. But why do the French need to go to Iraq? The war is winding down, and as long as that “al Sadar” guy stays in Iran, the US can downsize with the Brits.

  • http://fredfryinternational.blogspot.com/ Fred Fry

    Thanks Kristian,

    They did a study in the US of female Harvard and Yale graduate students and found that many of them had voluntarily left the workforce to be full-time moms. This was despite having as good education and jobs as their husbands and companies more than willing to be flexible with their schedule. They just wanted to be at home as a mom.

    The study was done by a true feminist who berated these women that they need to choose to stay in the workplace in order to protect their right to work or stay home. They women all got pissed off because the feminist was demanding that their choice should always be to continue work. They told her to go f off for giving them an opportunity they never asked for. Pretty amusing actually.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/08/60minutes/main648240.shtml

  • winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

    “MICHAEL YON SENDS ANOTHER EMAIL FROM ANBAR:

    Am still in Anbar and just went another day without hearing a single shot fired. Am out with a small group of Marines who live with a much larger group of Iraqis. I enjoy the Iraqi food more than the food at the dining facilities. Some of the Marines out here live in shipping containers. Their “toilet” is WAG bag. (Waste Alleviation and Gelling.) It’s every bit as exciting as it sounds. Basically it’s a little ziplock baggie — one-time use only.

    I was told that a chemical munition (artillery shell) was found within the last few days.

    Today, went on a patrol with Iraqis and a couple of Marines and we talked with Iraqi villagers for a couple of hours. I got to talk with a man who was about 81. His hearing was not good, so I had to sit close. He said he worked for the British RAF here in about 1945-46. I asked him if the British treated him well and he said they treated him very well. Said he made the equivalent of about 25 cents per day but that was good money back then. There is, in fact, a British-Polish-Indian-Aussie-Kiwi cemetery nearby. (I visited and photographed many of the headstones some days ago.)

    All the villagers we got to talk with were very friendly. Kids wanted their photos taken, that sort of thing. They were not asking for candy and that was nice. There was a train track nearby (looked to be in very good condition), and a locomotive turned over on its side, derailed. I asked a man what happened, and he said that about four years ago, during the war, an “Ali Baba” (thief) tried to steal the train but ran head-on into another train! He said the police caught the Ali Baba and he has no idea what happened after that.

    Marines are getting along well with the locals. They wave a lot, and stop to talk. If the rest of Iraq looked like this, we could all come home!”

    By the way they are still finding WMDs there. Anyone want to give me a number that counts as your threshold for saying WMDs are in Iraq?

    One number please?

  • http://www.axis-of-aevil.net/ hfb

    Kristian – You bonehead, the dude wants to promote the EXISTING parental leave for fathers that apparently (as a story with statistics published earlier this year stated) many of them don’t ever take either out of ignorance or out of some stupid idea that they aren’t meant to be a parent to their child. Of course, there’s also the unspoken issue of it hurting their career/employment much like it does already for women. As someone who just had a child and is taking a couple of years off…this is a hard fucking unpaid gig, son. Some days you have to struggle to get a pee break or lunch. I’d love to have my husband at home to help out right about now for a few months…but Google’s idea of ‘generous’ paternity leave is 2 weeks. Paternal leave isn’t going to change the hard cases who don’t come home early or often to see the kids, but for the guys who really want to be a dad it’s an enviable benefit.

    Oh, and for the tard caveman who thinks that guys changing diapers is a symptom of ‘gender nonconformity’ I can send my diaper changing, bottle feeding infant hugger over to conform by drinking a few beers and mashing your head into the kerb. :)

  • Annonymous

    Winter, what the hell do you speak about? I honestly struggle to read anything you write, and the stuff I do read happen to be really off topic, and really annoying.. Please stop hijacking this blog and go and find another blog to spam. If you want to stay here, then stay on topic. Phil should really consider deleting your entries since you always try to hijack every blog entry with something off topic and stupid.

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    Usually just stupid.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    By the way they are still finding WMDs there. Anyone want to give me a number that counts as your threshold for saying WMDs are in Iraq?

    Sure winter, they’re finding WMDs all the time, just like they’re finding tasty meals in ziplock baggies. Yum yum.

  • AmeriikanEnkeli

    Oh, geez, guys. No need to get yer jockstraps trapped in your sphincter about this one.

    As for the Harvard/Yale study, I’m one of those college-educated moms who opted out of the workforce for awhile. (I wasn’t in the study, though.) There was also an episode on 60 minutes not long ago about this very issue, too. Some feminist author was saying that at-home moms screw themselves over financially when they opt out of their careers to raise kids.

    Hooey. Staying at home to be with your kids is the ultimate feminist act. It’s saying that you value children over money. It’s a decision to invest in lives that will impact many others in the future. It’s an act of generosity that involves more selflessness than most men will ever commit, and I think it’s noble.

    Not to say that career-oriented moms are bad, btw. There are lots of good ways to raise a family and it’s not for any government to mandate the way.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    This was despite having as good education and jobs as their husbands and companies more than willing to be flexible with their schedule.

    Yeah, right. Being flexible with your schedule means that you’re allowed, no, expected to work around the clock. At least in “slacking” Finland. Perhaps things are different over there in hardworking America.

  • 123

    Kristian got owned

  • David

    I don’t understand the forced leaves’ part – as far as I can see, this policy will affect the employers more, since THEY have to accept those fathers/employees who want to take time off-work as valid paid-leaves. It is up to the fathers to decide if they want to take the leaves.

    It is a choice for the father to make. On the other hand, it’s the employers who are ‘forced’ to take this into consideration.

    While people here seem to discredit the hypothetical ‘feminists’, it’s quick to forget that if it weren’t the vocal feminists (women AND men) pointing out the social inbalance / injustice towards women, women wouldn’t be able to have a choice between her family and her work, between her socially assigned ‘duty’ and her own dream, or even between the candidates they can vote for. In fact, it is a tremendous progress when a woman can decide to leave her job, rather than being asked to leave. By the way, although Finland is the first in Europe to allow women to vote, it seems a lot of works are still to be done in men’s attitude.

    The feminists also point out, men are capable (some are even willing) to take care of the babe for a while. If I am not mistaken, people believe raising a family is a shared responsibility. However, in the past, the society tells who should do what; now, men and women can decide it amongst themselves. Again, now we have a choice.

    On the government ‘forcing’ the citizen issue, I don’t understand the double standards where it’s ok to influence people’s purchasing pattern and ideology but it’s not ok for encourging a beneficial behaviour towards the wellbeing of the child. In some country (e.g. South Africa), the high court is the guarding entity of all children under the age of 18. It has the power to move children out of the unfit parents’ home (e.g., physically or psychologically abusive, alcoholic, too sick to care for children…etc) Believing that the birth parents are unquestionably the most suitable parents to raise their children, is questionable.

  • David

    Oh, what type of ‘gender issues’ would a child have if s/he were raised WITH a father figure? I usually thought it’s more problematic when there isn’t a father figure. In US, religious fundamentalists claim that the absence of a father figure can lead to homosexuality (due to a strange logic that the children identify themsevles with their mother.) This is the first time ever I read about the issue of HAVING a father figure.

  • N. Siinistö

    #38, “I see him more as a Swede than a Finn-Swede”

    Heh. The spirit of Finland for thought in a nutshell. Who cares about reality and facts when you can just “see” things as you like them to be.

  • http://noguidinglight.blogspot.com/ a lamb with no guiding light

    I’ve read the article. I’ve read the comments. I still don’t understand why Kristian segued from talking about an initiative intended to encourage fathers to take parental leave to prattling on about sexual minorities. Is there some stereotype I’ve completely missed according to which gays are more interested in parenting than straight men? What’s the logic here? Help me out, folks.

  • DavidH

    “I see him more as a Swede than a Finn-Swede.”

    How you see him has nothing to do with it. He IS Finland-Swedish, so I don’t understand the point of arguing otherwise. Having said that, agruing black is blue is apparently your forté.

  • DavidH

    “By the way they are still finding WMDs there. Anyone want to give me a number that counts as your threshold for saying WMDs are in Iraq? One number please?”

    Where are they, Winter? I’m still waiting for an answer from the last time I asked you this…

  • http://fredfryinternational.blogspot.com/ Fred Fry

    In a good family, both parents raise the child. A family is a team and it makes no sense for both mom and dad to do the same things. Being a full-time mom is hard work. Those pushing moms out of the house to work are harming moms. This is especially true in Finland where they remove as many restrictions as possible against going to work. I have one friend, well educated there, who is being hassled because she expressed an interest in staying home. Her way out was to get pregnant again.

  • Kristian

    Fred Fry: “Those pushing moms out of the house to work are harming moms. This is especially true in Finland where they remove as many restrictions as possible against going to work.

    I agree, but it’s not only due to removing restrictions. Rather, it’s due to structuring the economy so that it’s difficult for many people to live on one income.

    The good news is that we no longer have an ideological giant next door, so the condition will likely change. The sooner the better.

  • Kristian

    Is there some stereotype I’ve completely missed according to which gays are more interested in parenting than straight men?

    No, but you have to click on the link for ‘gender identity.’ You’ll see that it doesn’t describe sexual preference; rather it describes behavior patterns and to which gender a person relates best.

    I merely used the 60 Minutes segments to illustrate the extreme cases of gender identity issues—gays. But I also stated in my post that “there’s a whole range of gender identities to consider.” That means not necessarily gay.

    Maybe I should restate it more clearly. Thanks for pointing it out.

  • Kristian

    Oh, what type of ‘gender issues’ would a child have if s/he were raised WITH a father figure?

    We’re not talking about gender issues regarding children; rather this addresses gender issues regarding parents.

    Furthermore, being a good father does not necessitate taking over the primary caregiver role. Nor does it necessitate taking leave from work when the child is an infant.

    One might argue that such leave would be more relevant when the child is—e.g.-16-years-old. But that’s a different story. Plus, in Finland there are 5- or- 6-weeks vacation anyway, so I’m not even sure that’s necessary….

  • http://www.axis-of-aevil.net/ hfb

    AmeriikanEnkeli – The recent press is about the author of the book “The Feminist Mistake” which is a rather sobering look at the high price of ignorance women pay to live in a June Cleaver bubble.

    I’m taking a couple years off mostly because I wanted to as I’m conveniently having my mid-life crisis at the same time but also because who is going to treat your kid as well as you would? Nobody. But it is rarely about the money. Out of the 16 women with newborns I started out with in my mom&baby classes….I think I am one of 3 who is staying home for any length of time. Money is important and is the most obvious reason people cite for going back to work, but deep down I think it’s the sheer terror of being consumed by a needy creature where you get no pay, no respect and run ragged. It’s a comedown from making six figures and having a life, that’s for sure. Fear of being trapped. The price is that the longer you stay at home…the less likely you’ll ever have a serious career again. There are real tradeoffs…and being prepared to take care of yourself and your children in the event the main source of income disappears is not a ‘feminist’ manifesto…it’s just good sense. Unless, of course, you like the show “Weeds”. :)

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    hfb:
    who is going to treat your kid as well as you would?

    OTOH, children who have been in daycare have been found to have better social skills and be more succesful in later life. I’d say that my lack of a social life (with the exception of a brief and depressing stint in a private daycare center in Helsinki and another one in Paris) during my early years has haunted me ever since.

    Unless, of course, you like the show “Weeds”.

    Being a chemist and all, I’m sure you could come up with something more profitable. Say, fentanyl analogues.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    Kristian:
    The good news is that we no longer have an ideological giant next door, so the condition will likely change. The sooner the better.

    Haven’t you been reading the news? The beloved porvarihallitus that you all have been creaming your pants over is talking about raising some taxes. I can’t believe how easy it is to fool you people.

    If you want to lower taxes in Finland, vote SDP.

  • http://www.axis-of-aevil.net/ hfb

    Freeridin’ Franklin – Well…for every parenting opinion, there is a study somewhere to support it to some degree. It wasn’t so much a comment on the state or quality of daycare, but an honest assessment of human nature. Not even a dogsitter will care for your pet the same way you would…afterall, it’s just a job. That being said, some of the working mothers who I still get together with for coffee and who have their kids in daycare either part- or full-time have noticed that their children have changed quite a bit since they entered daycare with some things like being able to sleep/nap better and being more social among the more positive things. I’ve already been looking around at preschools and will likely go back to work when she’s 3 which is, I’m told, the age when being around other children becomes an important step. Until then, I’ll try to fight the feeling that I’m going to be stuck being at home for the rest of my life with a no-paying job and a teenager from hell while I push her on the swing and think how wonderful it is to be able to play with her all day long.

    I wouldn’t set up a lab here in the state of MA given that they can probably put you in jail for having a beer and a smoke if you have kids I can’t imagine what they’d do if you were a recreational designer drug producer. :)

  • Kristian

    Who is Phil’s mom? Stefan Wallin?

    FUCK YOU PHIL YOU FUCKING NAZI!!!

  • Timo

    Well, this topic shows that someone has hiding in closet…
    or on the other hand Kristian proved he is True Finn – he went straight into forest with this one…:)

    This fathers in home is not really a big issue and gov won’t put any more tax money into that.
    from HS article:
    “The aim of Wallin’s project is to promote awareness of parental benefits that already exist. This would mean that fathers would also be allowed to use them more.”

    Really gay and robbing our money isn’t it?

    I agree that it is parents own issue to deside who stays at home and Mr Wallin says only that it is also allowed fathers to do that too.

    Is it gay to drive a SAAB?

  • JG

    Kristian, we very seldom agree on matters. Nonetheless, I have up untill now respected your viewpoints as generally well argued and thought provoking.

    However, with this article I am afraid I am no longer able to take you as credible.

    It seems sexist for a start. And, Stefan Wallin is not a Swede. He is not from Sweden. He is as Finnish as you. I am interested in your comment that “you see him” as a Swede. I wonder, what are your criteria for this? I am interested to know, as I am also Finland-Swedish. Does that make me a foreigner also in your eyes? Your comments border on racism. Even Perussuomalaiset, which does not want to have Swedish as an official language in Finland, does not take such a racist extreme view. Sounds like a member of Suomalaisuuden liitto typing.

  • Mikael

    It’s nice to see how you underlined the fact that Wallin is a Finnish-Swede and that social engineering is something that we’re good at. There’s something weirdly familiar with that kind of thinking – generalization and racism all in one, how comfortable for you, but I think Wallin was half Finnish and half Swedish.

  • Kristian

    SHIT!!! sorry phil..

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    This shows there is something worse than the emperor not having clothes… But the guest not having any ideas.

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    I, too, am of the queer Finnish-Swedish persuasion. BTW.

  • Kristian

    JG—

    it has nothing to do with being Finn-Swede….perhaps a coincidence but not the central point. Sweden is known worldwide for its bizarre social engineering. That’s why I see him mostly as a Swede.

    Generally, I don’t see Finn-Swedes in the same light. To be clear, I have nothing against Finn-Swedes whatsoever.

  • Anonymous

    “Yes, but realize that there are people who only visit here occasionally. Shouldn’t they have an opportunity to read it, too?”

    Thank you Kristian. You take all readers into consideration equally. Also us, who read this blog daily. Your viewpoints are as constructive as the viewpoints of Finns who nag about compulsory Swedish in some blogs. What comes to me, you don’t have any credibility, you just keep on insisting your own opinions without any real arguments to support them. Thank you my Fûhrer, you are right about everything you say. Or are you?

  • JG

    it has nothing to do with being Finn-Swede….perhaps a coincidence but not the central point. Sweden is known worldwide for its bizarre social engineering. That’s why I see him mostly as a Swede.

    I find this very hard to buy. A coincidence? If he was a Finnish-speaking Finn politician would your mind also jump to calling him a Swede?

    Is it not rather insulting to all Finnish people (of all language groups) and indeed people of any other nationality who believe in the types of policies Wallin has advocated to label them as foreigners in their own country?

  • Kristian

    JG—

    If he was a Finnish-speaking Finn politician would your mind also jump to calling him a Swede?

    Yes, but I would have worded it differently to bring the point across. Perhaps, the fact that he’s a Finn-Swede made the association with Sweden easier.

    But as you should know by now, I’m not a nationalist. I couldn’t care less where someone is from or what language they speak.

    to label them as foreigners in their own country?

    I don’t believe these types of policies belong in Finland. It’s just my opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion.

  • Kristian

    Franklin—

    The beloved porvarihallitus that you all have been creaming your pants over is talking about raising some taxes. I can’t believe how easy it is to fool you people.

    If you remember, I said all are Commies of a different shade until they prove otherwise….and they haven’t yet.

    If you want to lower taxes in Finland, vote SDP.

    I’m not so sure about that. You have an example?

  • Thomas

    Kristian:

    “Sweden is known worldwide for its bizarre social engineering.”

    You said A. Now say B. What exactly is this “bizarre social engineering” about? How does it differ from the “social engineering” other countries engage in? Not that I EXPECT an answer, but it would be nice to hear some facts, and not just – e.g. – you SEEING somebody “more as a Swede than a Finn-Swede”. You keep SEEING all kinds of things, but you seem strangely unable to support your grandiose VISIONS with facts.

    “Who is Phil’s mom? Stefan Wallin?

    FUCK YOU PHIL YOU FUCKING NAZI!!!”

    Freudian slip?

    “Exactly. That’s what we need to stop. Pay attention to this blog, and we’ll teach you how.”

    ;-) .

    You will teach me. That’ll be the DAY.

    WHATEVER way the government acts, it sends messages, directs activities and the economy, one way or the other. Even if the government doesn’t interfere at all, it “interferes”. The fact that you like some kind of libertarian night-watchmen society, is your choice. But I don’t think you’ll get much support for that in the foreseeable future (luckily). And whether such a society would be beneficial in ANY sense is extremely doubtful – or IMHO just pure crap.

  • Kristian

    Even if the government doesn’t interfere at all, it “interferes”.

    Not true.

  • Kristian

    JG: “However, with this article I am afraid I am no longer able to take you as credible.

    Don’t you say that every article? :lol:

  • Thomas

    hfb:

    “It wasn’t so much a comment on the state or quality of daycare, but an honest assessment of human nature. Not even a dogsitter will care for your pet the same way you would…afterall, it’s just a job. That being said, some of the working mothers who I still get together with for coffee and who have their kids in daycare either part- or full-time have noticed that their children have changed quite a bit since they entered daycare with some things like being able to sleep/nap better and being more social among the more positive things.”

    Our youngest son – who at one point in time was under the autistic diagnosis, nowadays he’s not considered autistic anymore – stayed at home (more or less full-time) until he was three. At home, kids with (speaking) inabilities like his, can get about by pointing their finger, since adults understand. After being put in kindergarden, and especially after being put in a kindergarden with specialist “nannies” (provided by the “loathsome” nanny-state), his status has been improving rapidly. I regret the fact that he wasn’t put in kindergarden at the age of 1. With other kids you NEED to develop social skills (like verbal communication), pointing the finger is not enough.

    And regardless of human nature, if you have a child who uses any door or window (and who seems to be clever enough to overtake almost any obstacle) to “escape” to “freedom” and “exploration of the surroundings”, 24 h. daycaring is HEAVY. Having been exposed to one HYPER-active (language-inhibited) son, I can tell you, you don’t know anything before YOU’VE been there. Before you’ve had a child that you can’t really leave alone for 10 s. (or he’s vanished) then you don’t know anything about whether YOU ALONE are the RIGHT FULL-TIME caretaker of your child.

    I must say I’m EXTREMELY thankful for the EXCELLENT daycare provided by the “nannies” in the kindergarden our youngest one takes part in. These women (yes, they all seem to be women) do a fantastic job, at low pay. Sure, it’s a job. But I can’t but admire their professionalism.

    I would like to see the current government honour their promises, and seeing to, that these people get the salary they deserve.

  • Thomas

    Kristian:

    ““Even if the government doesn’t interfere at all, it “interferes”. ”

    Not true.”

    Sure as hell it is true. In that case the government interferes with the “reality” it could have created had it interfered.

  • Kristian

    #78 Thomas, what are you drinking? Got any more? :lol:

  • http://noguidinglight.blogspot.com/ a lamb with no guiding light

    you have to click on the link for ‘gender identity.’ You’ll see that it doesn’t describe sexual preference; rather it describes behavior patterns and to which gender a person relates best.

    Yes, quite, but what’s the connection between gender identity and encouraging fathers to partake in parental leave? Gender identity is about a person’s self-identification and how others perceive him or her. Correct me if I’m wrong, but no one perceives fathers who take parental leave as having a different gender than fathers who stay at work.

  • Thomas

    Kristian:

    “#78 Thomas, what are you drinking? Got any more?”

    WTF are you talking about? Are you making fun of my language-inhibited son?

  • Thomas

    Lamb:

    “Correct me if I’m wrong, but no one perceives fathers who take parental leave as having a different gender than fathers who stay at work.”

    I’m sure Kristian does. In his opinion they are SWEDES. That’s the way he SEES it. Whether that’s relevant to objective truth is another thing. Kristian SEES many things.

  • Thomas

    Kristian:

    “#78 Thomas, what are you drinking? Got any more?”

    If you talk about post #79:

    A government can act in many ways in a given situation. It may choose to not interfere. Fine. But in that case it gives up the possibility to direct the development in a wanted direction.

    Say, revolutionaries decide to enter the “eduskuntatatalo”. The authorities might choose – given the situation – not to intervene. Do you think that their non-intervention is NOT an ACTIVE activity on behalf of the authorities? NON-intervention (like intervention) is always intervention (like it or not), since the government has the choice of whether to intervent or not.

  • JG

    I don’t believe these types of policies belong in Finland. It’s just my opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion.

    I believe you are fully entitled to that opinion regarding policy. I would happily fight for your right to have your opinions should that right ever come under threat. And yes, I do have a different opinion on this policy matter.

    However, lowering the debate to near-racist slurs has nothing to do with policy. Your earlier comments seem to reflect an attitude that goes beyond a belief that these types of policies don’t belong in Finland. You seem to suggest that anyone that even has these kinds of ideas is not entitled to be called Finnish.

  • Kristian

    near-racist slurs

    Sweden has its own race now?

    Actually, I find it funny when Finns call other Finns Amerikkalainen or Jenkkilainen, knowing they are neither, technically speaking. Is that racist too?

  • Kristian

    JG—very well, I will make a small change so as not to offend you…hopefully :-)

  • Anonymous

    this blog is the dumbness!!! For real?

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    A simple “whoops” would do, Kristian. Everyone here has disagreed with you, not on the “whether fathers should be encouraged by government to behave this way or that” but disagreed with your assertions that Wallin is somehow Swedish, that a father who is close to his children has gender identity issues, that women are empirically suited to be stay at home mothers (and that men are not), and that stay at home fathers are “bizarre.”

    I get a feeling you wrote this to get a reaction, please tell us it is so. It can’t be you really think all these dumb things.

  • AmeriikanEnkeli

    hfb,

    I’ve also got a little one at home and am working flexible hours part-time to be here for her. Kudos to you for your decision. I totally agree that it’s not about the money. I also think it’s sensible to have marketable skills at the ready in case your partner leaves you in the lurch.

    What I resent are the alarmists who funnel the lives of mothers into two veins: stay at home/work. It’s a false dichotomy, spun by the media, and it exploits a mother’s most basic desire to do best for her child.

    Finland makes it much easier for women to stay at home; I’d give anything for some lapsilisaa for our family and isyyslomaa for the dude. I’d like American companies to get more creative in offering women flexible hours, child-care options, etc. The six weeks of “sick leave” we get after giving birth is a frigging joke. And don’t get me started on health care premiums. :/

  • KKK

    It’s funny how Kristian answers to all pointless post, but those who got some good arguments he dosent bother to replay on those.

  • David

    #90: Celebrities do it, politicians do it, but when a site on social commentary site does it, it’s a pity.

    Kristian: “We’re not talking about gender issues regarding children; rather this addresses gender issues regarding parents.Furthermore, being a good father does not necessitate taking over the primary caregiver role. Nor does it necessitate taking leave from work when the child is an infant.”

    Who is the ‘primary caregiver’? From your response, I assume you imply it’s the mother, ‘as nature intended’. The corollary of the implication is, that men are ‘naturally’ inferior in taking care of children. Now, let’s all think about it for a moment – is this statement true? While the stereotypical men are said to show less affection and do not understand how to take care of the children, in reality, many new mothers are equally unequipped. If you read some pediatrician Q&A columns, you will find the mothers who don’t know how to breast feed their kids, or how much they should feed, or worry if their baby sleep ‘too much’…etc.

    Being a parent is a learning experience. While there are natural limits (e.g., men can’t really do breast feeding), the things like changing nappy or feeding the child some baby food, are fairly gender-neutral. Many new parents get the supports from their family or extended ones, and many urban couples now take lessons to learn how to live with one extra living being in their house.

    It is not ridiculous – some people want the best for their children, so they trade some time and effort to achieve that. That’s why I find it troubling when men are afraid of losing their manliness (ego) over taking care of their children.

    “One might argue that such leave would be more relevant when the child is—e.g.-16-years-old. But that’s a different story. Plus, in Finland there are 5- or- 6-weeks vacation anyway, so I’m not even sure that’s necessary….”

    I wonder how long does it take for the children to learn to love their father after, say, 16 years. Is it ok to be a mere shadow in their life until the “right” moment? Or when children hit the puberty and naturally become rebellious, then the fathers realise they need to take control? Sure, I believe that parents can choose their way of bringing up the kids (within certain bounds), but a close relationship doesn’t form overnight, and it doesn’t come easy.

    Finally, as mentioned above by others: taking leaves/vacation is dynamic. With a bit communication with the employer / HR, it’s possible to work when it’s necessary.

    But again, I am afarid all this is fallen on a deaf ear.

  • Anonymous

    Indeed, all this social engineering has made the Finns about the unhappiest people on earth. And poorest. And yes, all these Swedes, like Wallin, should keep out of Finland.

    By the way, you folks \”discussing\” with hfb, do you really think it\’s ethically right to encourage somebody who is clearly not well mentally?

  • Aleksanteri Nevski

    I am with Phil on this one. No more social engineering projects.
    Especially when single men are always on the losing side.
    We must stand on our own feet and not copy Sweden in everything.

  • Aleksanteri Nevski

    Sorry I meant Kristian not Phil

  • http://bnss.podshow.com Dave the Slave

    I think it speaks volumes that not even Winter is bothering to post on this subject anymore.

  • winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

    Winter was out getting tested.

    Bad news guys, my PSA dropped like a jet Airplane out of gas. So I am now considered in remission for Cancer.

    Yea for Proton Therapy….

  • DavidH

    Dave # 95: LOL :-)

  • http://www.axis-of-aevil.net/ hfb

    AmeriikanEnkeli – Finland makes it easier in one sense to stay home…by allowing the mother to spend a year with 70% of their pay at home with the child which can be extended two more years without pay. And there is subsidized daycare. When you return to work though there’s no guarantee that you will be in the same position you left. There’s also the drawback of making it harder to get work in your childbearing years because of these policies. With all of that though I don’t know any mothers who stay at home more than a year which is nearly always due to financial reasons. Low salaries with high taxes make it really difficult for families to survive on one income. It looks great on paper though.

    The US could do a lot more, but it suffers from much the same problems as Finland only without the year leave and affordable daycare…it’s still seen as ‘women’s work’ in a man’s world. The shitstorm the book ‘the feminist mistake’ has caused is bizarre, yet predictable given how sensitive women are about the choices they make…if they have the luxury to make them. There’s another new book out that looks interesting where a number of white, educated, middle-class women (generally the ones who can make the choice to stay home or not) were interviewed and it became clear that it wasn’t so much a desire to stay home with the kids but that the workplace and social pressures more or less forced them into that option. ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0520244354/ ).

  • Kristian

    Low salaries with high taxes make it really difficult for families to survive on one income. It looks great on paper though.

    Exactly. In Finland, at best you get back a small part of what you overpaid in taxes throughout the years—but, as you say, only for that short period of time.

    The rest of the time, you are discriminated against, and your choices are limited. That’s Finland in a nutshell. Sounds good for that one- or two-years though.

  • AbnerMarsh

    @ 99: You finally convinced me. Which country should I go to? What is the perfect country to go to with university degree, wife & 2 children?

  • winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

    “perfect country to go to with university degree, wife & 2 children?”

    Whay would you ask? Its the USA.

    We have low taxes, low unemployment, and more Billionaires.

    If you get Cancer (Like me) you will get the correct treatment and not die like in Europe.

    We have Bush as the great leader, so why would you want to live under some EU wimp?

  • Kristian

    AbnerMarsh, for once I have to agree with winter. The US is indeed the best place to live if you are educated. I know he’s only kidding about the ‘great leader’ part though.

    In Europe, I have experience with Germany and Switzerland. Both have a higher standard of living than Finland, and the Euro stretches much further. Different cultures though—very subjective from that perspective.

  • winter

    “great Leader” because you Europeans failed to display even the tiniest modicum of competence in running the world.

    Your continued stupid deployment to save thugs and killers in Lebanon proves it again.

    Finland was leader of the free world for 6 months? What did you do? Did you even try to solve Darfur? No? then why not? You had the time.

    Bush is the only real leader the world has right now. We will be sorry when he leaves office, as the next one may be a big joke.

  • Kristian

    next one may be a big joke.

    Can’t possibly be a bigger joke :lol:

  • winter

    Look, I was just comparing Bush and even Clinton to the current state of the EU.

    There is no comparision, as you all have zero credability after the food-for-oil, and you could not even show up for your own little war (Yugo war), where the USA has had to step up to the plate.

    As you Europeans have failed to display even the tiniest modicum of competence in running anything, why would you be trusted to run the world? Please give me one concrete reason? Something you did, and are happy with the results? Maby? Something small? Microscopic?

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    winter:
    Something you did, and are happy with the results? Maby? Something small? Microscopic?

    Killed the Indians, stole their land, facilitated the rise of your Great Leader and enabled you to post your wisdom here. Wait a minute, I’m not too happy about that. I’ll wayve the French white flag of surrender instead.

  • winter

    Hay, I can’t do the Flaggy thing. So quit bringing it up. The French Fries are wonderful, the French know who the bad guys are, and when you figure it out, please tell us.

    By the way the Indians do quite well with Casino’s. Talk about who is robbing who.

  • POP

    LOL winter
    ”takes popcorn” These discussions are realy great!

  • winter

    Just looking for a good excuse to give you all the world back. So far nothing you do, or have done, would be any reason.

    Your incompetance also hinders the effort.

  • niko

    where is Phil? there hasn’t been any new posts for days now.. Not that I don’t enjoy winters ignorance discuised in “wisdom”.

    “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

  • maksalaatikko

    “The US is indeed the best place to live if you are educated.”

    I half agree with you. The U.S. is the best place to live if you are hardworking. I you are hardworking and educated, even better. A strong work ethic and a positive additude are the best assets to have if you want to get ahead here.

  • winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

    No need for Phil. I am headed to a cure, so I can be here for you all.

    Think of it as a public service, I provide for free, to counter the BBC, and let you all know how the USA really feels.

    Fair and ballanced, right here. And “You get the last word” as Bill OReilly would say. But then again, did the BBC ever give anyone the last word? Or did they do the close up, with their take?

    Humm….. Maby Fox is getting more and more viewers for a reason?

  • AbnerMarsh

    Thanks for the tips. I have been thinking about US for a while. The only concerns I have about US is the schooling for the kids. I guess that can easily be solved by selecting the right neighborhood. Southern Germany or Switzerland don’t sound bad either, since they both (still) have something called winter.
    Which place would be good to go in US? I once was in Michigan & Toronto and it looked quite like Europe from the countryside.
    By the way. Why is nobody proposing Canada? What’s wrong with Canada.

    About the leadership, I have to disagree with you winter: why would we need one nation lead the world? And what would you say if, for example, Russia or China had the desire to “lead” the world???

  • winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.”

    Place to go in USA?

    Look at housing market. The hot places are still high priced. Like Atlanta, and Washington DC.

    “One nation rule the world?” We were given that job, because you all gave it to us. So should we now give the job to China?

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    Canada?

    Good for vacations, like skiing.

  • AbnerMarsh

    @ 113: hmm, I must have a memory leak. Can’t remember that I gave that job to US. Maybe it was already done before I was born. Need to ask my mom, if she remembers.

    Naturally, if we all gave you the job to lead the world (I will remember to ask my mom!), then there is no need for other countries to interfere. And I appreciate that you are doing such a good job in bringing democracy to other countries like Irak and Afghanistan. It is just amazing, how these countries are blossoming up and people are happy there!

    I also checked realtor.com for some houses. If I sold my Espoo house, I could buy a f***ing villa! How much are the costs for electricity, sewage, etc. Only remember that gasoline was dirt cheap compared to Finland.

    What is the best way to find out, which neighborhoods are good. I don’t want to end up in a quarter ruled by gangs and the streets full of crackheads. Here in Greater Helsinki area the no-go areas are quite well known, like Espoon Keskus, Itäkeskus, Kontula, Koivukylä.

  • AbnerMarsh

    @ 114: and bear hunting!

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    “doing such a good job in bringing democracy to other countries like Irak and Afghanistan. It is just amazing, how these countries are blossoming up and people are happy there!”

    did we forget: Germany, Finland, Italy, Japan, do I have to go on?

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    “best way to find out, which neighborhoods are good.”

    you have to visit them, Its very easy to see which ones are good. No trash cars in driveways, grass is always cut, etc.

  • Anonymous

    #117

    How did USA bring democracy to Finland? No need to answer as this was a rhetorical guestion.

    winter is the dumbest

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    How did USA bring democracy to Finland?

    They did their darndest to bring Stalin’s democracy to Finland.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    Kristian:
    “If you want to lower taxes in Finland, vote SDP.”
    I’m not so sure about that. You have an example?

    During 1995-2007, an average wage earner’s income tax rate has dropped about 10 pct-units.

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    “How did USA bring democracy to Finland?”

    you are right, we failder on that one. The welfare state of Finland can go into the “Failed” corner. I will get a dunce hat out for that one.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    Humm….. Maby Fox is getting more and more viewers for a reason?

    Sure it is. The reason is well documented in the film Idiocracy.

  • Freeridin’ Franklin

    hfb:
    I wouldn’t set up a lab here in the state of MA given that they can probably put you in jail for having a beer and a smoke if you have kids I can’t imagine what they’d do if you were a recreational designer drug producer.

    You just can’t shake off an intrusive nanny state, can you?

  • winter “Yea, Proton Power, now in remission”

    “Maby Fox is getting more and more viewers for a reason?”

    maby they are laughing all the way to the bank?

    Anyone hear of Air America? A left wing radio show that went under?

    Left wing slants kills a station, period.

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