“I recognized alot of the songs they were playing, and I’m guessing that no royalties are paid to the original producers of that songs”

You guessed wrong. Royalties are payed (or at least should be payed) for playing music in public.

Should but I think he ment the band in question and many other smaller groups don’t pay royalties. (?)

If you buy the song, in paper form, then play it, I think you are ok?

Thats what we do for school plays anyway.

Bands never pay royalties for the music they play live. It’s the resposibility of the event organizer.

I would actually imagine that in most cases royalties are actually being paid, at least if the event isn’t any kind of “underground” event.

Regardless, there are several differences when comparing that to posting images on a blog. One of the key differences is the fact that content on the blog is permanent and stays on the web. From the moment it is posted, it is possibly accessed by thousands of people over long period of time. This is quite different from song being played on one occasion and heard by perhaps a few hundred people. In addition the played song isn’t exactly redistributable, so there is no worry that the infringement would continue beyond that one occasion.

winter:
If you buy the song, in paper form, then play it, I think you are ok?

And if you buy the cd, you can like play it on your radio station or something.

It’s entirely different: a band CANNOT use a songwriters’ “property” without compensation, because the songwriter is supposed to get compensation from the event organizers, not from those who are simply hired to perform the song (eg. analogously, if you hire someone to type a copyrighted book on your computer and then post the book on your blog, you’ll be in trouble but the typist won’t, as it’s not his/her responsibility to figure out whether you have permission to publish the material). If your company failed to compensate whoever owns the songs the band played, *your company* has just commited a crime. The only time a band ever has to care about using someone else’s song is if it’s *their* event (ie. whenever they’re not just a bunch of hired perfomers, as was clearly the case with your company).

Of course, in practice this would be pretty difficult to organize with every individual songwriter, so there’s Teosto

http://www.teosto.fi

If your company organizes such events regularily, they most likely simply pay some bulk yearly sum to Teosto (see their rates on the website) and send a songlist of every event to Teosto; Teosto then compensates the song owners. Whether the band plays its own music is actually completely irrelevant, since the organizer is supposed to send a report to Teosto in any case; if the songwriters etc play in the band, they will get money from Teosto in addition to whatever they’re being paid directly for performing at the event.

Of course, this only works if the song copyright owners are members of Teosto, which means giving up any other control over who’s playing your songs. You’re free to stay out of the system, but that means you’ll have to guard your own intellectual property – good luck hunting down on your own everyone who’s playing your summer hit and demanding compensation.

Bands never pay royalties for the music they play live. It’s the resposibility of the event organizer.

But do they really? There’s so many little shitty clubs and bars all over that hire cover bands, I can’t believe most of them are paying two cents in royalties.

and send a songlist of every event to Teosto; Teosto then compensates the song owners. Whether the band plays its own music is actually completely irrelevant, since the organizer is supposed to send a report to Teosto in any case; if the songwriters etc play in the band, they will get money from Teosto in addition to whatever they’re being paid directly for performing at the event.

Wow, talk about anal retentive. How much do a band get for each song? Pennies? It probably costs TEOSTO more in fees to provide this service.

Do you know if the same is true in the states? Are these tiny little bars and clubs actually writing down each and every song a cover band is playing. How about all these weddings where a band is hired? And does TEOSTO manage international bands as well?

It’s similar in the UK. I bet most small events or pub gigs or buskers won’t bother with it. But I remember when some friends entered a university battle of the bands. They had to write down if they were any covers they to perform so the SU could pay the royalties to the fee collection agency. It all depends on whether the organiser is doing things by the book or not.

Oh, and an image on a website is often an exact reproduction of the original, whereas most covers are not!

I think TEOSTO shares the cash they get based on 1) the reports restaurants make 2) they reports radios make (playlists) 3) how many records are sold.

It’s not mere pennies the bands get, but as always, the more successful your band, the more you get payed. And I think TEOSTO also pays foreign artists, since its a member of CISAC.

As of June 2006, CISAC numbers 217 authors’ societies from 114 countries and indirectly represents more than 2.5 million creators within all the artistic repertoires: music, drama, literature, audio-visual works, graphic and visual arts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CISAC

So Phil here is basing his argument on his pet issue of internet image use on a “guess” that cover bands in Finland do not pay royalties.

I am reminded of that scene in the Marx Brothers movie Duck Soup, in which Rufus T. Firefly (Groucho Marx), President of Freedonia, sparks a war with neighbouring Sylvania because he assumes that his handshake will be refused by the Sylvanian Ambassador.

Honestly Phil, you’ll stay in shape better if you try some expercise other than your present favorite of jumping to conclusions.

Honestly Phil, you’ll stay in shape better if you try some expercise other than your present favorite of jumping to conclusions.

Like I said in my post, I’m only “guessing”, and looks like I’m wrong, although I’m quite skeptical that all these little hole-in-the-wall bars write down every song and report it to TEOSTO.

“Like I said in my post, I’m only “guessing”, and looks like I’m wrong, although I’m quite skeptical that all these little hole-in-the-wall bars write down every song and report it to TEOSTO.” – Phil

But does that make it less illegal?

Phil, FOLLOW THE FUCKING LINK! You’re supposed to understand Finnish enough by now:

http://www.teosto.fi/fi/luvat.html

You don’t need to pay Teosto for music at weddings or similar family events. And no, they do not anally collect all the data from the smallest events, they do some sort of statistical estimates based on the playlists they do see or something like that (ask them if you want to know their exact methodology); however, every small bar is supposed to pay the Teosto fees (and rather likely does, since it’s a small fee for a small bar but the penalties for copyright violations don’t seem to be that small). And yes, the vast majority of the money Teosto collects does go to copyright owners.

If you draw your own pictures from a existing model and post those, it’s like making a cover song.

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