TV Licence to Be Re-evaluated
Finland’s new Minister of Communications (from Kokoomus) wants to change the way YLE collects its revenue…
The Finnish Broadcasting Company YLE should collect revenue with a general tax or fee, said the new Minister of Communications Suvi Lindén in an interview with the Sunday supplement of the Väli-Suomi group of provincial newspapers. YLE’s Director General Mikael Jungner does not yet see the need to change the source of funding..
Lindén said the fee for watching television should not be based on TV ownership because broadcasts can be watched by mobile phone or through the internet. Jungner told YLE that viewers will need to register, and pay, to watch YLE programming on the internet when a significant portion, or between 10 and 50 percent of YLE programming, is offered on the internet.
[...]The Finnish Communications Regulatory Authority also plans to increase its number of TV licence inspectors. It has already hired 15 new employees and plans to hire another 15 by the end of the year. The previous number of inspectors was 60.
The number of households paying the TV licence has declined over the past three years. Last year, 15,000 fewer households paid the fee than in 2003.
Most people agree the TV license tax is unfair - a poor single mom in Finland with a single tiny old TV pays the same yearly fee as the wealthy family with the Plasma screen in their bathroom. But less seem to disagree with the use of the TV inspectors. Opponents of the general tax payment method argue that households who don’t have a TV shouldn’t have to pay. It’s a good point, but aren’t there like a million other state-run services you’ll never use but stil pay for? why is television different?
Why?? Can’t they just go private and compete for their money. If they stay at the public money pit, you will just get what the left wing wants to feed you.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 1:49 am
First of all, Yleisradio is not a state broadcasting service. It is a public service broadcaster. There is a difference.
Precisely because Yle is a public service broadcaster, starting to use taxation revenue to fund it is a risk. The government of the day will control the collection and then onward distribution (to Yle) of any tax funding method. This could have an effect of undue political influence on Yle. Yle might not wish to offend the government of the day, as then they could easily react by decreasing Yle’s funding.
I do agree, the tv-fee is not completely fair as a way of funding, because of the way it does not descriminate on income in the way you describe. However, I do think it is the best option, better than a more government controlled method in any case (for the reasons I mention above).
Comment by JG — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 2:03 am
“a poor single mom in Finland with a single tiny old TV pays the same yearly fee as the wealthy family with the Plasma screen in their bathroom.”
- Yes, but they also pay the same for a liter of milk. The difference is taken at the point of paying income taxes where the wealthy family is shafted by the state to put everyone on a more-level playing field. And they are shafted again when caught speeding.
- It is not the rich family’s fault that the single mom is poor. Or that she is single. A poor single mom should start with selling her TV. There some more money. She has too many problems to sit around watching TV. Too bad the State is so preoccupied in making sure she does not have to face her own problems.
Sink the TV fee. It is stupid. but while they have it you better pay, otherwise they will start taxing Internet access.
Comment by Fred Fry — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 3:23 am
“It is not the rich family’s fault that the single mom is poor.”
how un PC of you. Now repent, it is the Rich guys fault for working to hard, paying his taxes (yea he pays most of the taxes the state gets anyway).
So sock it to him.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 3:46 am
“But less seem to disagree with the use of the TV inspectors.”
Fewer [people] seem to disagree - not less.
Comment by Anon. — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 5:09 am
The government of the day will control the collection and then onward distribution (to Yle) of any tax funding method. This could have an effect of undue political influence on Yle. Yle might not wish to offend the government of the day, as then they could easily react by decreasing Yle’s funding.
That’s an interesting point. I never thought that any Finnish government could be so blatantly corrupt to do something like that, but I guess it could happen.
Just like the government could withhold funds if they’re unhappy with YLE, it’s a shame the people can’t do the same. Like if the citizens are unhappy with YLE, what can they do? They could stop paying their license, but then YLE will just raise the fee the others t compensate. If I’m unhappy with Nelonen for instance, I can voice my unhappiness by not watching their network so they won’t receive ad revenue.
Comment by Phil — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 7:54 am
The number of households paying the TV licence has declined over the past three years. Last year, 15,000 fewer households paid the fee than in 2003.
So why the drop? Fewer households with TVs? Or more people unhappy with the system?
Comment by Phil — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 7:55 am
Me and my GF don’t even own a TV because we don’t want to pay outlandish fees for useless bullcrap. Maybe we can get one if this passes. Though my personal preference would be to privatize it and use the money for the healthcare industry and tax cuts. Then encode YLE and everyone who wants to see can subscribe. Or they can go with commercials, either way I don’t give a fuck.
Comment by Monumental Asshole — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 11:31 am
“Or they can go with commercials, either way I don’t give a fuck.” - Monumental Asshole
I am sure that YLE’s board of directors are all breathing a little easier now that you’ve voiced your opinion.
Comment by RAVE THE SLAVE — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
“It is not the rich family’s fault that the single mom is poor.” - Fred Fry
Flawed logic.
If taxes are higher for people who make more, if “day fines” paid for misdemeanors are higher for people who make more, if daycare fees are higher for people who make more, then the TV license should also be.
TV is not only a form of entertainment. It delivers sometimes vital information, news and weather. Were you saying that poor folk should just be ign’r'nt if they can’t afford the TV license? Yes, you were.
To some people 50 euros every few months is a lot of money, to others it’s a couple of drinks at the American Bar.
It should be graded according to income.
Comment by RAVE THE SLAVE — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 1:08 pm
That’s an interesting point. I never thought that any Finnish government could be so blatantly corrupt to do something like that, but I guess it could happen.
I agree that our government does not tend to be the types that would resort to such measures. But, the danger is even there if the government do not do it. Simply Yle’s fear that it would be possible could be enough for them to think twice before being over critical of government actions. That is why I am against the general taxation method of funding Yle. In a way, it is just the same as advertising tv, advertisers are also potentially people not to be offended - thus again, potential self-censorship creeps in.
Comment by JG — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
I don’t have a TV. Waste of money. Same fee in Germany by the way. No TV there either. We have one in Switzerland, but the whole family contributes toward the license fee because it’s a commonly owned family residence.
Anyone have experience with computer TV cards? I might install one, but I’m afraid of becoming a TV junkie…..as opposed to an Internet junkie
Comment by Kristian — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
“It should be graded according to income.”
Yea, sock it to them, and watch your economy fail.
Go Go Go.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
“Yea, sock it to them, and watch your economy fail.”
Your econimic is already failed if it only benefits the selected few.
Rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
I agree with Fred and I actually, partially agree with winter as well. Those who work hard and make a lot of money do get shafted here. This is common knowledge. We all know the reason why the number of households who pay the tax is down, because a great deal of people do not like the idea of having to pay tax - forced to pay tax. YLE needs to man up and start showing commercials or turn it into a subscription service. I can live without Law & Order. It’s the only thing I watch on YLE.
I do have a question. Do all the other broadcasters get a cut of the revenue from the TV tax or does state hog it all for YLE? It would be appropriate to ask how that is fair for all the other broadcasters if they get none of the tax revenue. Tax revenue forcibly generated from people who who watch their channels.
Comment by gopha — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
“If taxes are higher for people who make more, if “day fines†paid for misdemeanors are higher for people who make more, if daycare fees are higher for people who make more, then the TV license should also be.”
- And just who are you going to get to do these jobs when at the end of the day the state knocks their income back down to the level where they might as well just f off like everyone else?
- Taxes are the leveling factor. To have an adjusting scale for everything will kill Finnish society. Do you have any idea how many people have jobs in Finland that are dependant on the wealthy having money to spend/waste at the end of the day?
TV is not only a form of entertainment. It delivers sometimes vital information, news and weather. Were you saying that poor folk should just be ign’r’nt if they can’t afford the TV license? Yes, you were.
- Ever hear of a radio?
- Ever hear of a newspaper?
- IT is not the TV that is expensive, it is the tax the Government places on it.
- I was a poor person (student) in Finland. I went 9 months without a TV. They had one in a common room. Eventually I got one, but only because one of my friends felt sorry for me and gave me their old one.
“To some people 50 euros every few months is a lot of money, to others it’s a couple of drinks at the American Bar.”
- What makes you think 50 Euros means nothing to a wealthy person?
- Funny, it is often the poor people blowing their paycheck on a weekend night in Helsinki.
Comment by Fred Fry — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
I am sure that YLE’s board of directors are all breathing a little easier now that you’ve voiced your opinion.
And I’m sure you are one dumb fuck.
Comment by Monumental Asshole — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 5:15 pm
“And I’m sure you are one dumb fuck.” - Monumental Asshole (truth in advertising)
And I’m sure you’re really a big hit at parties.
Comment by RAVE THE SLAVE — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
If people are so poor that the cost of >TV and licence is an issue and they need news etc, use the radio…
Comment by Njepo — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
Am I the only one wishing this monumental asshole would take his sewer mouth and F off back to the rock he cralled out from under? Either that or try to post, even sometimes, without the use of profanity. We’re all able to understand what you mean without the colorful use of language starting with the big F. BTW, it doesn’t make you sound native to swear like a trooper, just like an idiot. Sounds the same as foreigners here saying V this or that every time they open their mouth
Comment by Punter — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 9:43 pm
“I went 9 months without a TV.” - Fred Fry
I feel your pain.
Comment by RAVE THE SLAVE — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
RE 20:
It’s not the swearing that bothers me, it’s the assumption of this monumental asshole that someone actually cares what he thinks. Sure, we all sometimes post stuff that we probably might keep to ourselves in real world conversation… But this guy just can’t seem to get enough of himself.
Comment by RAVE THE SLAVE — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
“Do you have any idea how many people have jobs in Finland that are dependant on the wealthy having money to spend/waste at the end of the day?” Fred Fry
What?
Comment by RAVE THE SLAVE — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
Fred Fry:
“Do you have any idea how many people have jobs in Finland that are dependant on the wealthy having money to spend/waste at the end of the day?”
Do you have any idea how many people have jobs in Finland that are dependant on the wealthy (outside of Finland) having money to spend/waste at the end of the day?
That’s more relevant.
Comment by Thomas — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 10:02 pm
Yeah, it’s almost as disturbed as mjr’s constant use of “social mobility”
Sorry mjr………. (at least it’s not “F ing social mobility”)
Comment by Punter — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
Rave,
“What?”
Try people who do the following:
- Furniture craftsmen
- Artists
- Musicians
- Jewelers
- The boating industry
- Tourist industry
- Anyone working for a luxury car dealer
- Maids
- Every single employee at Kamp
- Probably half the employees in Stockmanns
These people have jobs becaue other people have money to spend/waste.
Comment by Fred Fry — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 2:52 am
In the United Kingdom, if you are blind, you have a 50% discount on your TV license fee.
Presumably, if you are also deaf, as well as blind, you should get a 100% discount. However, I don’t think that is the case.
Comment by Peter — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 3:16 am
In the United Kingdom, if you are over 80, you do not get a new knee. they give you a wheelchair instead. More money for the kids they say, not for old folks.
We had it happen to us. So we went private.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 5:27 am
They could stop paying their license, but then YLE will just raise the fee the others t compensate. If I’m unhappy with Nelonen for instance, I can voice my unhappiness by not watching their network so they won’t receive ad revenue.
And if the others DO want to compensate what’s the problem? Clearly they are really enjoying the service a lot if they want to provide it to all the others too.
Oh and if you stop watching Nelonen they don’t even notice. Unless you’re one of those Finnpanel people. So what good does that do?
BTW Advertising is a funny business. It has to make you buy stuff, how else would it work? Why do people not see the problem in this? Don’t they mind that someone is psychologically forcing them to spend and consume? And if someone thinks that adverts are useful information then how come advertisers are paying for it and not consumers (well of course the consumers ARE the ones paying for it through consumption…)? Information = vital in a market economy, image selling = competition for our minds.
gopha, do you speak Finnish fluently? I can understand how non-natives don’t see the point in YLE programs which are actually quite interesting and versatile. I can’t imagine how anyone reading this blog would find them boring or useless.
One more thing: YLE has been critisized for not appealing to the public but I think the “new” boss Jungner is trying to change that and focusing more on well produced programs about popular topics and formats. Musiikki-TV is a fine example of this and is definitely the best music show in Finland ever (although they show it rather late). I heard Jungner speak once and he was very sceptic about elitist programming and emphasized the importance of popular culture. And this was at a university event, mind you.
Comment by Pave — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 11:21 am
I forgot to add that I actually support funding YLE via regular taxes. It would reduce the hassle and save on the inspecting costs not to mention improve their image.
If they keep YLE independent from the govt. and nominate board members from all parties and outside, I can’t see how the neutrality would be compromised. The government can affect on their funding a lot as it is. I can’t believe the first thing Lindén does as a minister is this good!
Comment by Pave — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 11:30 am
“It has to make you buy stuff, how else would it work? ” - Pave
All great points, Pave!
You know what has bothered me over the past weeks? That “Ugly Betty” campaign that snuck in the back door and pretended to be a fashion clothing line before it came out and said it was for the TV show.
While clever and made people talk about the thing for weeks before the show premier (I think it started last night), it was manipulative and sneaky.
While I do get tired of those chat shows on YLE, what with their sitting around in awkward “panel” seating arrangements, with their Iitala glasses of water and “concerned” expressions…I would hope that such manipulative advertising would not replace actual debate/news and information for the sake of a few lazy people who don’t want to think for themselves.
We happen to be in a very special time in television’s history; it is a renaissance of sorts, the commercial channels (in the States mostly) are trying desperately hard to compete with quality programming from the likes of HBO and Showtime… So they are more willing to take risks on good, edgy programs. That’s why the commercial channels are looking so good right now. It won’t last forever.
Would you like to revert to the old “Love Boat,” “Fantasy Island” days on commercial TV? Because if that’s all it takes for them to sell soap, that’s all they’ll do. It’s all about the lowest common denominator, ratings and how much crap people will put up with.
YLE is not perfect by any stretch, but at least with the license fee in place you can (almost) rest assured that at least they will try to find something for everyone.
And if you don’t like it, don’t pay and go Torrenting, Apple TV or something.
Comment by RAVE THE SLAVE — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 11:50 am
“In the United Kingdom, if you are over 80, you do not get a new knee. they give you a wheelchair instead. More money for the kids they say, not for old folks.
We had it happen to us. So we went private.” - winturd
I see you got a fresh baggie of glue for the week.
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
“Presumably, if you are also deaf, as well as blind, you should get a 100% discount. However, I don’t think that is the case.” - Peter
I am sure the Helen Keller Society for Free Telly for Deaf and Blind Folks Society (HKSFTDBS) is working on the case.
http://www.HelenKellerSocietyforFreeTellyforDeafandBlindFolksSociety.co.uk
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
gopha, do you speak Finnish fluently? I can understand how non-natives don’t see the point in YLE programs which are actually quite interesting and versatile. I can’t imagine how anyone reading this blog would find them boring or useless.
Even if I did - I hope to someday - I still wouldn’t watch YLE for anything else but Law & Order. Well, they showed Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back and Clerks. I just find the programs on the other channels much more to my liking. And it’s really not about the language, I watched a telenovella called Juana La Virgen (Ihmeiden aika). I barely known Spanish, so I had to follow along by reading the Finnish subtitles.
Comment by gopha — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
#33 Dave the Rave,
their website is only in braille, and is currently out of touch
Comment by Peter — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
Finland is the biggest hill billy trailer trash country I have ever visited..OMFG.. I never saw so many trailer trash in one sitting in my life. Finland = white trash. Low self esteem, Welfare…basically “white niggers”. I’m glad my student exchange only lasted 12 months.
I got to get out of this trailer trash country.
Comment by hilly bill — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
gopha -
Hmm. I’m not a fan of YLE’s drama/comedy series either actually, they give me the creeps most of the time. You have to remember that their main audience is a lot older than that of the commercial channels and it would be pointless to try to provide the same kind of shows.
I was talking about their talk shows, documentaries etc. If someone spends their idle hours reading this blog (s)he must have some kind of interest in current events, society, debates (not just political), different views on life and whatnot. They also show all kinds of movies (not just from the U.S.
)
I’m waiting for reruns of Persona non grata.
Comment by Pave — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
“I never saw so many trailer trash in one sitting in my life.” - drooly shrill
Apparently, my esteemed, verbose colleague, you have never been in the Carolinas.
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
Golf courses should collect revenue with a general tax or fee, said the new Minister of Communications Suvi Lindén…
I agree totally, one shelter job for useless bureaucrats less is always better.
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 8:35 pm
@36, just out of curiosity, where was you hilly bill?
Comment by Hank W. — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
“These people have jobs becaue other people have money to spend/waste.” - Fred Fry
Every job in the world is because other people have money to spend/waste. I mean midwives, farmers and undertakers might be the exception (the only truly “essential” workers), but last time I checked they make money too.
I guess I just lost what you were getting at.
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
#36
I am glad to see you gone. Can everybody smell that another welfare feeding troll has left the country, it smells less like shit.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 12:08 am
“Can everybody smell that another welfare feeding troll has left the country, it smells less like shit.” - nobody
No, I can smell that 42 probably was written by 36, too.
Comment by RAVE THE SLAVE — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 12:15 am
“Every job in the world is because other people have money to spend/waste.”
- Not so for government and farm jobs. Other than that, yes to varying degrees.
Comment by Fred Fry — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 1:02 am
If someone spends their idle hours reading this blog (s)he must have some kind of interest in current events, society, debates (not just political), different views on life and whatnot.
That’s what the internet is for.
Comment by gopha — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 1:18 am
42…yes,,,ill make sure i knock up a Finnish trailer ho before i do…hahahahah
Comment by hilly bill — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 1:38 am
hilly bill: “yes,,,ill make sure i knock up a Finnish trailer ho before i do…hahahahah”
Well, aren’t you a clever one. I’ll bet the first trailer ho you knocked up was your sister. I’ll even bet it’s the same sister who circumsized you when your daddy kicked her on the chin.
Comment by Fat Bastard — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 9:58 am
#43
Smelled wrong
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
As I told to Mr. Springsteen here before, everybody is free to export as many trailer ho’s as possible, given that they keep the custody disputes of the knock up out of tabloids and bloody inhimillinen tekijä. There should be a special tax for occupying the one-issue-at-time discussion space of a small nation with personal and family matters.
Comment by Antti rn — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
fat bastard, thats all you got ? that was your best ? you are a sad case of an abortion left over aren’t you…hahahah
Comment by Hill billy — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
50: Nah, not even close, but that was the amount of effort needed to take care of a mollusk.
Comment by Fat Bastard — Thu, Apr 26th, 2007 @ 11:37 am
“The government of the day will control the collection and then onward distribution (to Yle) of any tax funding method.”
That’s exactly how tv fee now works.
Comment by Jumpe — Tue, Jun 5th, 2007 @ 6:25 pm