16 month queue for dental care in Helsinki
Pääkaupunkiseudun hammashoitotilanne on entistä pahempi. “Helsingissä pisimpään hoitoa odottanet potilaat ovat olleet jonossa jopa 16 kuukautta”, toteaa johtava hammaslääkäri Seija Hiekkanen.
You might have to wait up to 16 months for dental care in Helsinki!! Who the hell gets a dental problem then has 16 months to wait? And people wonder why so many Americans don’t want to give up their private healthcare for public care, if it takes 16 months in Finland it’ll take 116 in the states.
I think they should stop pretending and do away with public dental care altogether.
If only to make winter happy.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Apr 22nd, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
Who says you have to give up private dental care? Go to a private dentist.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 12:57 am
What 16 months? In canada they wait:
“waiting times were for ophthalmology (cataract removal, cornea transplant, treatment of glaucoma, etc.) at 27.9 weeks (6.4 months), and orthopedic surgery at 26.4 weeks (6 months). However, in some provinces typical waiting times for some procedures can be more than a year. For example, the median wait for neurosurgery in Manitoba is 66 weeks (15.2 months), while the wait for orthopedic surgery is 67.4 weeks (15.6 months) in Saskatchewan and 70.8 weeks (16.4 months) in New Brunswick.”
Don’t break a leg in Canada.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 1:29 am
Oh, I forgot, going Private in Canada is called “Law breaking” in 6 of the 10 provences. You go to Jail just wanting faster Medical Care.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 1:40 am
But Phil, this is one of the “most competitive economies in the world with above average growth.” LOL!
http://www.finlandforthought.net/2007/04/10/porssi-is-finland-afraid-of-wealth/
Comment by Kristian — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 2:00 am
There is no wait to go see a private dentist.
The wait is insane considering that there are dentist signs all over Helsinki.
Comment by Fred Fry — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 3:27 am
It is almost impossible to get public (National Health) dental treatment in UK also.
(Unless you are at school, kids get the school dentist…Oh… the memory of that torture still remains with me).
Dentist dont get enough money from the state for giving treatment so they opt out.
I was told when I moved to Finland.
“Dont come if you have bad teet or a sick dog as either will cots you a fortune!”
Comment by Karhu — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 9:36 am
The wait is insane considering that there are dentist signs all over Helsinki.
Yes, that’s why you can walk right in and ask for an appointment. The time you’ll have to wait is something from right away to two weeks depending on how popular the dentist is. Kela will then compensate - was it - 40% of the fee, 60% later this year. Public dentists take care of check-ups mostly, but you can almost certainly get an emergency appointment there too the same day … or even a “regular” appointment if you know how the system works. But I won’t tell how, find out for yourself. But, no, the system is not working the way it should, favoring those who have money or know their way around is not right.
And Kristian, you apparently need eyeglasses more than dental care, apparently you’ve got difficulties reading international comparisons, or at least those that rank Finland on top.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
16 months are unacceptable by any means. Still urgent cases are handle usually the same day. They always have urgent slots everyday in spare. It’s the regular checkups that take time. Myself I’m used to the 6 month waiting time, so when I want to checkup my teeth once a year I ask for a time in advance. A nice working cycle.
Comment by Tommi — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
I’ve heard the biggest problem is people who don’t show up at their appointment.
Comment by N. Siinistö — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
“And Kristian, you apparently need eyeglasses more than dental care, apparently you’ve got difficulties reading international comparisons, or at least those that rank Finland on top.”
Actually, I have experience to compare different countries. I can’t speak for the UK though; that place seems to be hell from what I’ve read.
As for Finland’s dental service… From the perspective of someone who can afford it, I can say it’s ok. I don’t have any major teeth problems though, so my knowledge is limited. But I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want to be a poor person in Finland.
For a poor person, the disadvantages of living in a country that compromises its tax base by discriminating against those with wealth would quickly reveal themselves.
Comment by Kristian — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
“I can say it’s ok”
I meant in terms of waiting time.
In terms of quality, I had difficulty finding a dentist in Finland who uses a laser drill. Only the bigger places have them; there aren’t many of them around.
I noticed by doing a quick Internet search on a small town in the US—one in which I’d previously lived—it seems that all the dentists, both large and small, now use laser drills. The price for service is less than here in Finland when considering purchasing power. Probably about 30% less in the US.
In Finland, you pay twice: once via taxes and then again via the dentist’s fee which is even higher than in the US.
Comment by Kristian — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
But I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want to be a poor person in Finland.
I wouldn’t want to be a poor person anywhere but if I had to choose Finland would be close to the top. Why? Finland is a rich country and its income distribution is probably the most even in the world (it was a couple of years ago). In language you can understand this means that an “average poor but working person” has to be better off in Finland than in most other countries.
They can even get their teeth checked and cared for unlike many other countries … no, just kidding. In fact they have to wait in line for 16 years and even then the “dentists” are actually former KGB interrogators. Let’s see who - in addition to you - buys that one.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
“Finland is a rich country and its income distribution is probably the most even in the world”
Unfortunately, ‘even’ income distribution isn’t what ensures good healthcare for the lower strata. Instead, a sufficient tax base is what’s important.
Having ‘even’ income distribution implies that wealth is prevented from accumulating, and therefore the country’s tax base can never broaden. Such is the case in Finland; hence the long waiting lines for the poor.
In the European context, a poor person has better care in Germany or Switzerland for both dental and other healthcare needs. No lines. That’s been my experience.
I’m sure if you have no other experience except Finland. So naturally, it is the best for you.
Comment by Kristian — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
“In 2006, insurance premiums for an employer-sponsored health plan for a family of four averaged $11,500, more than the net annual salary of a full-time employee who earns $8 per hour.
Americans pay over $2 trillion per year–four times the federal defense budget–on a healthcare system that sucks….Workers and employers pay an average of $465 per month EACH to insurance companies who use every shady trick in the book to avoid paying out claims…..
Hundreds of thousands of Americans are so desperate that they travel overseas in order to leech off socialized medical care systems, which are prevalent in other industrialized nations.
“We are overwhelmed by you (expletive deleted) Americans,” an exasperated emergency-room physician at a Canadian hospital across the border from upstate New York told one of my friends, whose girlfriend had driven him the eight hours from Manhattan to Quebec after he’d fallen down some stairs and broken his arm.”
What the hell is that?!?! Many Americans do not go to their local ER because it is too expensive and choose to drive hours in pain to Canada.
Source:
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/4811
Comment by tim73 — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
#4 “going Private in Canada is called “Law breaking†in 6 of the 10 provences. You go to Jail just wanting faster Medical Care.”
So I guess that this is a criminal website:
http://www.findprivateclinics.ca/
But then, the post was put up by Winter, who relies of Fox Noise for his information.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
Kimmo,
My understanding is that Private is OK for whatever is not covered by national care. But you cannot go to a private clinic to get an MRI, or hip surgery, heart surgery, etc that the Government does pay for. Unless of course you go to the US, or whever….
Comment by Fred Fry — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
I’m sure if you have no other experience except Finland. So naturally, it is the best for you.
Total arrogant bullshit. There are things called facts and then there are those obscure “feelings” you draw upon. Sorry if I believe facts.
Finland’s income distribution is perhaps the most equal, the GDP/capita about the tenth biggest and the total tax revenue among the highest. There is no way in hell that this equation could make the working poor in Finland not relatively well off. Claiming otherwise simply means that you don’t understand what you’re talking about.
The unemployed poor, on the other hand, are worse off than in many welfare states, that much I give you. And the working middle class isn’t doing all that well either, compared to countries where the income distribution is less equal.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 7:43 pm
Yeah, in practice we DON’T have public coverage for dental care, we just have a law that says there should be one. Politicians decided to have the law but not the money. But to have such a non-system as representing universal single payer coverage as opposed to private insurance represents almost Goebbelsian intellectual dishonesty. Or ignorance - take your pick.
Comment by mjr — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
Well, Goebbelsian or George W. Bushian - the modern Republican Party basically lives on intellectual dishonesty. AND ignorance.
Comment by mjr — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
Oh, btw winter, I think they have now changed that talking point, as it was blown out of water months ago - now here’s a link for you considering Canada. Strangely the observable facts turn out to be different than what they say on Fox. Curious how often that happens…
http://www2.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_04/011151.php
Comment by mjr — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
I love this topic when someone complains here about the lack of service in the public system. The automatic response is “go private and stop complaining.” Well really??? My only problem is that evry time taxes are mentioned in Finland all we are told is the great public services it provides us with however when we complain about their shortcomings we’re told to go private. Pay twice in other words, once for a State system in collapse and then secondly to a private system still developing due to a lack of service history.
Comment by Punter — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
Healthcare probably is in crisis everywhere in western world because of costs. In the 60’s basic healthcare was rather cheap, basically penicillin and few other basic medicines and X-ray at most. Today modern medicine is able to cure all kinds of rare and/or complex diseases and that costs more and more money. Medical technology is also very complex and expensive.
On top of that, US healthcare system is totally crappy, insurance companies are screwing both employers and employees big time. Modern day robber barons.
Comment by tim73 — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
Tim73, you almost had me there. I actually thought you had written a well thought out and bright post about the difference in health care costs today as against the 60s……..
And then, almost as if I knew it was coming, out it came again. “On top of that, US healthcare system is totally crappy, insurance companies are screwing both employers and employees big time. Modern day robber barons.”
Well well well. That’s probably because as you say the whole country is doomed, the economy is ready to collapse, the housing buddle is bursting, the education system is………..
Makes me wonder about the 73 following your name. I used to think it was probably the year you were born in but now I’m not so sure. Number of brain cells spent thinking daily perhaps????
Comment by Punter — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
Well, Punter, maybe you could address the boring and mundane facts also: the US system really is wasteful, ridiculously expensive, and it doesn’t even deliver universal coverage, not to mention that key national health statistics don’t even start to compare with most Western European countries. Oh, but maybe you are one of those who would count out all the brown and black people from the US statistics? It’s so hard to keep up with all the varieties of libertarianism here - or were you the one who wouldn’t want to see his tax money going to child healthcare or what was it now?
Comment by mjr — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
Hey, I have just had a dental check in Porvoo after queueing 14 months - in a tiny little town of 47.000 inhabitants. They mentioned they had two job ads open, but noone is applying…
Comment by Sunny — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
Once you’re “in”, after the first check-up as an adult, the public system works well enough, if you just remember to sign up for the next check-up. Many municipalities will even remind you to do that. No need for private services unless you want fancy laser things or whatever.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Apr 23rd, 2007 @ 11:33 pm
“I’m sure if you have no other experience except Finland. So naturally, it is the best for you.”
Total arrogant bullshit.
Kristian has a severe case of the Timo T.A. Mikkonen syndrome.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 12:47 am
Well…having been on both sides of the dental fence and been hosed for over 300 euro for a dentist, a private dentist (supposedly a top prof at the local dental school even), in Finland to take a quick look at my hurting tooth and spackle some crap onto it only to have it keep hurting for another year….which the dentist here couldn’t believe as he couldn’t understand a) why the dude spackled my tooth ( with some sort of crap that had to be removed) without an obvious reason and b) how he could have missed the fact that the tooth was being rammed into the tooth next to it….fixed, no waiting and no charge to me. And I also have to admit that the tooth cleaning in Finland by comparison was….cursory at best. Not that I like the evil that is the dental assistant poking at my gums with sharp things for over an hour…but the difference in service is quite amazing.
Comment by hfb — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 3:53 am
“US healthcare system is totally crappy,”
yea, thats why we all are headed to Finland. Wait.. we are not? Our feet say other things? Darn, must teach those feet to be a little PC or they get to walk, not ride to the mall.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 5:32 am
“considering Canada.”
I met a guy from Canada during my radiation treatement. The medical system up there does not recognize his Cancer (Same as mine) treatment, so he came to the USA for a cure.
Canada does pay for their folks to get treatment in the USA, but not for Cancer.
Great system. Me thinks they don’t go for his cancer treatment, for money reasons. Wait, its those bad bad insurance guys again? No, its a Government saying no how, no way?
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 5:42 am
hfb: “And I also have to admit that the tooth cleaning in Finland by comparison was….cursory at best.”
Yes, I also had such an experience recently. I don’t want to relive it by posting about it again.
hfb: “how he could have missed the fact that the tooth was being rammed into the tooth next to it”
I’m pretty sure US dentists have a few more years of education than Finnish/European ones. US medical doctors have significantly more than their European counterparts.
We like to compare European and US systems without realizing that our comparisons aren’t based on the same quality.
#27: “No need for private services unless you want fancy laser things or whatever.”
They’re not “fancy things” anymore. They are standard equipment…..in the US.
Overtaxed economies like Finland are limited by what they can afford. In contrast, low-tax, wealthy economies are only limited by the latest technologies and methods.
Comment by Kristian — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 8:58 am
It is interesting to see this magnificent defiance of facts here - Kristian you do sound like a modern Republican (I can’t easily think of a worse thing to say about anyone these days). Anyway, read those links and argue back with facts, not attitudes, not anecdotes, not theory.
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/real-crisis.html
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/health-care-in-us-and-world-part-i-how.html
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/performance-of-us-health-care-system.html
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/waiting-for-health-care.html
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/health-care-in-us-and-world-part-ii.html
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/health-care-in-us-and-world-part-iii.html
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/health-care-intelligence-failure.html
Comment by mjr — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 10:51 am
Just testing, some problems with comments, Phil? - could not get my majestic rebuke of Kristian through…
Comment by mjr — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 10:57 am
Ok, I suppose too many links in the same post, here goes then in smaller bunches:
It is interesting to observe this magnificent defiance of facts here. Kristian, you do sound like a modern Republican (can’t easily think of worse insult these days). Anyway, read those links and argue back with facts, not attitudes, not anecdotes, not theory - facts.
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/real-crisis.html
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/health-care-in-us-and-world-part-i-how.html
Comment by mjr — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 10:59 am
Nope, now it stopped functioning again, even with just one link - anyway this analysis comes in 7 parts, it uses reliable statistics, the writer is a trained economist and the facts really do speak for themselves. This should of course be selfevident for everyone as it’s the observable reality: the US healthcare system is very expensive, very inefficient and does not deliver universal coverage. It is an awful mess. Our ridiculous pretense of public coverage for dental care does not change these facts in any way. And yes, there are anecdotes, plenty of them: like the one about a boy dying in Washington DC when not finding a dentist that would provide subsidized care. This was reported in Washington Post a while ago. Quite an interesting story that.
Comment by mjr — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 11:07 am
I love this topic when someone complains here about the lack of service in the public system. The automatic response is “go private and stop complaining.†Well really???
What, are you poor or something? Just sell some of your stock.
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
“What, are you poor or something? ”
well, then you complain, ask for more free handouts. I mean getting in to work on time, going up the corporate ladder, is just well, to hard.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
Perhaps the spam filter prevents certain addresses?
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Sorry, myspace seems to work, contrary to what I remembered. Anyway, writing: “google for [a six-word-long quote from the web page you're referring to]” works fine most of the time.
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
mjr: “It is interesting to see this magnificent defiance of facts here”
Not sure what “facts” you’re arguing about, but I’m sure it’s your normal tact: Everything bad comes from the US, therefore every part of it should be rejected.
I found over 10-pages of dentists who use Lasers in Phil’s Baltimore region alone.
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkiii.S1GAAIBTxlXNyoA?p=laser+dentistry+baltimore&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt
In the Helsinki region, you might find 3.
Greater wealth in society assures better quality healthcare.
Comment by Kristian — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
Why have your tooth destroyed with primitive and abrasive drills, when instead a Laser preserves the surrounding tooth material?
Comment by Kristian — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
Kristian
Here are the most likely reasons why you are trolling this blog
Because you have nothing else to do?
You want to argue with random Finns(because by judging your post thats the only thing you are looking from here)?
”Why have your tooth destroyed with primitive and abrasive drills, when instead a Laser preserves the surrounding tooth material?”
After comment like that you cant wait anybody to comment back with some constructive post.
You cant have a life if you realy do read all these texts here.
I have ever never read as much anti Finn bullshit than your texts
…..and now you are mocking Finns because they dont have laser trills…
It’s like you go google and find material you want and argue about that, because realy thats the thing you do.
But then if you are the 15 years old guy from US that havent ever even been outside of US(as I belive you are). If those things are true that I told before you must be enjoying this.
Comment by TOPs — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
Greater wealth in society assures better quality healthcare.
It assures healthcare for those individuals who have wealth.
Why have your tooth destroyed with primitive and abrasive drills, when instead a Laser preserves the surrounding tooth material?
Because the alternative may not be laser, but no dental care at all.
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
“But then if you are the 15 years old guy from US that havent ever even been outside of US(as I belive you are). If those things are true that I told before you must be enjoying this.” -TOPs
Ummm… Perhaps you are the troll here because Kristian is a contributor to the blog itself, he spells better than you and from my understanding is a bit older than 15 years of age.
While I may not agree with Kristian usually, he is not an anonymous troll. Only trolls post anonymously.
If you do, however, feel insulted that Finland doesn’t have state of the art dental services, may I suggest you take your aggressions out on someone more appropriate, such as your legislators.
That is if you are old enough to vote, or a Finnish citizen for that matter.
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 7:43 pm
I have had alot of dental care done here in Finland, because I was not covered by insurance in America for a few years. My waits have been about a month, but I live in Espoo so maybe there is a difference.
The service was ok, but the work was a bit shoddy.(Young dentist?) One of my fillings has since crumbled, so I will need to go get it fixed again. I also went through dental surgery which was excellent in both service and quality of care.
There probably is differing situations throughout Finland because each municipality is responsible for organizing their own health and dental care as they see fit.
And #43, Kristian has been around for as long as I can remember reading this blog.( After Finland Journal died)
Comment by Unit — Tue, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 11:06 pm
“Finland doesn’t have state of the art dental services,”
and Cancer services, google Proton therapy, and find me one in Finland?
Hint: Its not even on the drawing boards for Finland. They take 3-5 years to build and cost 150M plus.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 4:12 am
Kristian has a severe case of the Timo T.A. Mikkonen syndrome.
But instead of a serif hat he’s into lederhosen.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 9:28 am
winter -
As I have previously stated there are 5 (five) full-scale proton therapy facilities in the U.S. That’s one facility per 60 million people. Finland has 5 million people. But yeah, it would be strange if the Nordic countries (about 25 million people total) wouldn’t have a common facility in the next couple of years (I have no idea if they don’t already have…)
Comment by Pave — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
I believe that there is one in Stockholm. But what does that have to do with Finland? It’s not like we’d have a common health care system. And the therapy is pretty useless anyway - unless you happen to belong to that 5% of the cancer patients who may get better because of it.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
Apparently winter belongs to that group and doesn’t really care about anything else but his “own bellybutton”.
Redneck Antti (I believe) said that the Nordic countries have common special treatment facilities because everyone having their own would be costly. Anyone have a good source for this?
Comment by Pave — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
Finland indeed isn’t enough of a welfare state to have its own proton therapy unit. One has to take e.g. the ferry to the People’s Home (too bad you can no longer pick up tax-free cigarettes on your way to cancer therapy) or wayve the white flag and go to France.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
More of those boring things, actual empirical facts (why do I keep polluting a LIBERTARIAN blog by them, I wouldn’t know…) below:
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=12683
Comment by mjr — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
Pave
5 fully working Proton units now, 4 funded and in the design building phase (Norfolk, Philadelphia, Denver, and Seattle), and 1-2 more in a planning stage (looking for funding, and sites). so that’s 300/9 or 33 Million People per unit.
you need to get going on yours. This is like Star Trek state of the art treatment. see video here: Protons
The USA does take anyone with $. There were 4 from Germany, 2 from South America, 1 Canadian, 1 French, all in with me, last fall, getting Radiation out of a group of 120 that are in day to day treatment at Loma Linda.
By the way, the 10 and 15 yr Protons studies are out. I hit the 93% success rate curve, which is the same rate any doctor can give you for getting surgery, but without the surgery side effects, and long term damage that happens when your pluming is cut and re-plumbed.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
“By the way, the 10 and 15 yr Protons studies are out. I hit the 93% success rate curve, which is the same rate any doctor can give you for getting surgery, but without the surgery side effects, and long term damage that happens when your pluming is cut and re-plumbed.” - winturd
Too bad they haven’t invented a ray gun that increases brain cells, that would come in real handy where you come from, eh winturd?
Comment by RAVE THE SLAVE — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 9:06 pm
winter -
Thanks for the reasonable reply (for once). Anyway, 33 million is nowhere near 5 million.
It’s a good thing that cancer is getting less deadly with these treatments. I’m still curious if Finns can get proton therapy (in Uppsala or elsewhere) and what they have to do to get it.
Comment by Pave — Wed, Apr 25th, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
Can a Finn get proton therapy? The real question is will your great national health care system pay for treatments outside the system?
Then if yes, how much?
With the current cost over $50K, (All but my first $1K paid for by insurance) and whith 4 more centers now on line, the cost will drop in half, (equal cost of an operation, by the way), as competition sets in.
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Thu, Apr 26th, 2007 @ 8:24 pm
I don’t know any details concerning proton therapy but the govt. does pay, I believe, 40% of a private healthcare bill (appropriate care of course) and the percentage is about to be raised. People may also get private insurances that work very much the same way they do in other countries.
I must say I doubt that the public healthcare would offer proton therapy if there are other (cheaper) treatments available.
Comment by Pave — Fri, Apr 27th, 2007 @ 3:14 am
If the queue gets too long then call a private dentist and get an appointment within the next 5 days.
Comment by Mikael — Fri, Apr 27th, 2007 @ 10:26 am
“public healthcare would offer proton therapy if there are other (cheaper) treatments available.”
so you would go for the treatment, where you lose control of your ability to go to the bathroom for life, (Get a diaper guy) against a treatment where your side effects are less? One costs money the other is free from your medical service.
Are you willing to live like that?
Comment by winter “Against stupidity, the gods themselves are helpless.†— Sun, Apr 29th, 2007 @ 4:03 am
I would like to give some comments to what has said here. I am French and I have been living for 32 years in Finland.
My son is now 18 and he has had a private insurance since he was a baby, just in case.
5 years ago he had a surgery because of appendicities and he had to be 6 days in hospital. We had then to pay something like 120 euros which were reimbursed by the insurance company. According to what I have read and seen an american family should have this kind of hospital care pre-approved by the insurance company before getting their kid to hospital. I don’t know if I am right or wrong.
Second exemple. Some years ago I had a thrombosis and had to stay in hospital 7 days. I had ultrasound examinations, many blood tests and I was treated with antocoagulant drugs. The cost of all this? About 130 euros. How would it be in the USA? I just ask.
A relative had an infarct, he was taken to intensive care in the university hospital of helsinki and after that he was several days in a cardiological service. He was made also an angiography and a lot of other examinations. For 6 days the cost was about 130 euros. A don’t think an average american could say it is excessive.
What about dental care? If you have problems and you want only a dental check, it’s true you may wait up to 16 months.
BUT if you are in pain there is also a possibility to be treated (also in Helsinki) within 2 hours. I experienced it myself. Just look at http://www.hel2.fi/terveyskeskus/suomi/paivystys/hammashoito_paiv.html
For emergency dental care the address is Mannerheimintie 172.
I was there some months ago when the filling of one tooth was gone. I got a new filling and paid 39 euros. I probably would have paid as much at a private dentist because Kela would have compensate a part of it.
So, especially now after I have watched “Sicko” I am glad to live in Finland and not in the USA. Of course I could say France is the best. This is also what Michael Moore seemed to understand when he was making his documentary.
One proof for this? There are about 700 french nationals living in Finland and something like 16.000 finns in France. This tells everything…
Comment by alain — Sat, Jul 7th, 2007 @ 7:41 pm