And this is news like how? Just stupid foreigners making these surveys never got the gist of it

Phil:

You keep bringing this up time after time. Now you quote an article, that mostly deals with COMPANIES (those fore-runners of economic liberalism, that you’re so fond of) and foreign countries, but somehow manage to turn this into a thing about “The myth of Finnish incorruptibility”? What are you really trying to do this time. The “old-boy networks that resemble corruption”, how are you going to avoid those. They exist everywhere, but usually managing them is called “doing business”. Why should it be different here? And – contrary to the HeSa article – I don’t think the size of the country has anything to do with this. There certainly is room for some level of “corruption” in “zoning” decisions and such. But, tell me about the country where there isn’t? The U.S.? Don’t make me laugh.

*yawn*

All one has to look at is “food for Oil” and one will see Finland in the thick of things, backing the dictator (now hung) for oil.

You did it for oil. Thats a fact.

“backing the dictator (now hung) for oil”

No, that was one of your great deeds.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blsaddamrumsfeld.htm

And that’s a fact

Now you quote an article, that mostly deals with COMPANIES (those fore-runners of economic liberalism, that you’re so fond of) and foreign countries

I don’t have a problem with Finnish businesses paying off people in foreign countries to get the job done. Payoffs are commonplace in Russia for instance, that’s how things work over there, Finnish businesses aren’t given the task to rid the world of corruption.

I just don’t want to see the paying off of state officials here in Finland. According to the article, it was commonplace here not all too long ago. I’d be surprised to see something like that disappear all of a sudden.

but somehow manage to turn this into a thing about “The myth of Finnish incorruptibility”?

That’s the title Hesari gave to the article.

There certainly is room for some level of “corruption” in “zoning” decisions and such

One great reason why we should loosen up zoning restrictions, it would cut down on corruption.

But, tell me about the country where there isn’t? The U.S.? Don’t make me laugh.

Exactly! It happens everywhere. Not “everywhere except Finland” like some people believe.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

http://lgfwatch.blogspot.com/

“No, that was one of your great deeds.”

Thats reserved for your current stupid move, supporting thugs and killers in Lebanon. Yes, your now infamous “Human Shield” deployment for iran, will get you more Oil, and more Oil, and more Oil.

You guys are pathetic. Those same troups could be in Darfur, could be saving 1 Million from the gun. But No, you go in and support the thugs and Killers in Lebanon.

No way, can Finland ever say “we are to small”, to weak, to screw up the world. You just proved capacity, to do good things, but showed the world a mindset to not care, or even want to do good things in the world.

Finns: Where do you think your petrol comes from? You indirectly support the American occupation of Iraq by purchasing petrol that originates from Middle Eastern puppet states of the USA.

iF YOU really want to be superior, stop buing

10: Finns: Where do you think your petrol comes from?

Sorry, we know, no need to “think”

Vuonna 2005 Suomeen tuotiin vajaat 11 miljoonaa tonnia raakaöljyä. Siitä 81 % tuli Venäjältä, 10 % Tanskasta ja loput Iso-Britanniasta, Kazakstanista ja Norjasta.

Don’t know if Denmark, Norway and UK count as US puppet states.

“Finns: Where do you think your petrol comes from?”

As Hank W. correctly quoted, nearly all oil comes from Russia. Natural gas too. Directly piped-in, in fact. You can read about it here.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/finland.html

Generally, Europe’s energy demand is largely met by Russia, via pipelines across places like Belarus, Ukraine, etc. But there’s also a pipeline across Turkey, which is a US project. That’s where Iraq’s oil will flow through.

And let’s not forget that little war in Yugoslavia, where scores of civilians got incinerated by air power. That little action made way for a pipeline from the Caspian Sea region.

No oil shortages these days The objective is very clear: Topple uncooperative governments and then pump-out, deliver and sell as fast as possible.

Interesting how there’s a pipeline waiting to be built from Turkey to Israel……….via Lebanon.

http://www.inogate.org/en/images/maps/gas_map_big.gif

The European Commission’s annual report on “social protection and social inclusion” also found 10 percent of people living in households without anybody working.

Yea, the great welfare state works so well. What another pathetic failure you all are. Glad I live in the USA.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/02/19/070219190755.ymle6ljl.html

“Glad I live in the USA.”

You don’t seem too happy. More like bitter and insecure.

Phil:
One great reason why we should loosen up zoning restrictions, it would cut down on corruption.

Actually, Espoo and Vantaa are full of zoned, unbuilt land. It’s just that lacking a tax incentive to build, the owners are happy to let them sit and appreciate in value.

When you check out the prices on Etuovi next time, remember that the fruits of the Free Market are being reaped.

Of course, we could go the evil statist way of the rest of the world and FORCE the owners to build by increasing their real estate taxes, but no good libertarian would want to do that.

Non-Helsinki area residents might want to check around the city with Google Earth (get the desktop version, it rocks!) to see just how terrible the land shortage is.

Phil:

“I don’t have a problem with Finnish businesses paying off people in foreign countries to get the job done.”

That was one of the points of the article:

‘However, the problem with these comparisons is that corruption manifests itself in so many forms. The TI report mainly tells us that the Finnish civil service is no longer bribe-driven.
The report does not reveal how Finnish companies operate abroad, or how much corruption takes place in Finland that is considered acceptable in the eyes of the law.’

Notice: “The report does not reveal how Finnish COMPANIES operate ABROAD”

“I just don’t want to see the paying off of state officials here in Finland.”

Where have you seen it? Lay the facts on the table. And since you are so well educated concerning finnish corruption – it’s present and past – then you could perhaps elaborate around the subject “finnish STATE officials, and their role in municipal zoning”? If you please.

“According to the article, it was commonplace here not all too long ago. I’d be surprised to see something like that disappear all of a sudden.”

Well, according to these comparisons, it’s less commonplace here than elsewhere. Either it is that just nowadays, or then it was that already in the past. You choose.

“That’s the title Hesari gave to the article.”

That’s also the title of your article. I believe – given your record – that you are/were delivering a message. And you’re doing it by means of selective quoting, as usual.

“One great reason why we should loosen up zoning restrictions, it would cut down on corruption.”

Franklin already adressed this, but zoning restrictions, what EXACTLY is it you mean by this? Don’t refer to the article, rather tell it yourself. Zoning, means costs in terms of building infra-structure, so it can’t be done randomly. Especially if the landowners whose land is “zoned” then just start “appreciating” the value of their land.

“Exactly! It happens everywhere. Not “everywhere except Finland” like some people believe.”

I don’t know who you are talking about. But the fact that there is “corruption” at one level or another just about everywhere in the world (I don’t know anything in detail about this, but economic rent is just about as profitable anywhere, so therefore I think this is a global problem) in the “building department”, doesn’t change the fact that there are DIFFERENCES between countries.

And I think it’s rather easy to deal with the authorities in Finland (and Helsinki, that’s where my experience lies). I’ve been involved in building a house in Helsinki, and it was a process that lasted less than two years from handing over the money to the previous owners of the lot, to moving in into a completed house. No bribery was necessary. There were absolutely no difficulties whatsoever. All contact’s with the “authorities” were completely frictionless. No extremely long waiting at any point. Nothing of the sort you always seem to hear about when it comes to house building. The only small problems were due to companies (2 out of roughly 15), that weren’t conducting business according to the norms that I expected them to. But those incidents were also sorted out. But concerning the authorites, I can’t give one single example of any misbehaviour, including the final check (“lopputarkastus”) 5 years after finishing.

And, keep in mind, the CORRUPTION ALWAYS seems to involve – at last as one party – these beacons of free enterprise, entrepeneurs/companies.