How are they homophobes? I mean sure, they’re not the most gay-friendly group of people on earth but at least they didn’t punish Huovinen for blessing a lesbian couple.

On a funny note, a test:

http://www.jokeroo.com/ecards/funny/thegaytest.html

I don’t get a homophobic vibe from this piece of news either. The complaint was a private one made by theology students who have nothing to do with the official church. Huovinen was not punished by the church. I really do not see where you’re coming from with this. Not that I ever do, mind you.

“…the Finnish state collects taxes from its citizen’s monthly salaries for the Lutheran church.”

It’s voluntary.

“Okay, imagine if a business were speak ill of some gay or lesbian employees – what would happen to that business?”

According to what you wrote, there was no ill spoken. Just some theology students who complained. Anyone can complain, right?

For that matter, I don’t see any obligation for the church to allow or disallow gay unions. It’s the church’s prerogative.

Anzi: “I really do not see where you’re coming from with this.”

I think he means that business should be free to act in the same way as the church.

Keep the gays out of church…gays and church go hand in hand like oil and water….The Lutheran chucrh is not a business…its a (club). hehe,,,they have their own rules,,its called the bible..I agree, keep the gays out of Lutheran church..

Let the gays make their own church…like GAYS R US or something…
uhhh am I a homo phobe ? nope, just dont want them in my club…

I don’t get a homophobic vibe from this piece of news either.

Ditto. What gives?

nope, just dont want them in my club…

No, you’re not a homophobe. You’re just a bigot and an idiot. The Church (Luth., Bap., Cath. etc.) is no club. Anyone can participate without having to pay a fee. It’s what bigots, such as yourself, tend to forget. It’s real easy to forget the teachings of Jesus Christ or to twist his words to suit your needs.

I don’t now about the church being homophobic, but I totally agree with you on the separation issue. The church (or churches as here are two of them under the same legislation in Finland) should be completely separated from the state. Then they could be as homophobic as they want or as anything else they want.

they’re not the most gay-friendly group of people on earth but at least they didn’t punish Huovinen for blessing a lesbian couple.

The fact that there’s some investigation, and that the church could have “punished” the minister. What would have happened if she had blessed the lesbian couple in the church?

It’s voluntary.

Yeah, but the state does all the leg work, garnishing the money from your wages.

According to what you wrote, there was no ill spoken. Just some theology students who complained. Anyone can complain, right?

But imagine the minister had done that blessing in the church.

For that matter, I don’t see any obligation for the church to allow or disallow gay unions. It’s the church’s prerogative.

Neither do I, they’re welcome to ban gays from their church if they like, but the state shouldn’t have such close ties with them.

Let the gays make their own church…like GAYS R US or something…
uhhh am I a homo phobe ?

No, you’re just a Lutheran. The Finnish church welcomes you with open arms.

IIRC the taxation of legal persons by the church is not voluntary. A company owned by Jews, Atheists or Muslims pays the same as a company owned by by devout Laestadians. That’s unfair, IMHO.

Well, I think you are once again misreading the Finnish cultural connotations here, Phil: this is actually a small step forward. The church leadership is relatively liberal in social matters, but they have to do a very careful balancing act. Though I’m not the biggest fan of this current crew of pompous shilly-shalliers as the case for gay marriage is so elementarily obvious, but I guess we just have to accept that the Church will always be one or two generations behind the obvious. Kind of sad actually.

but I guess we just have to accept that the Church will always be one or two generations behind the obvious.

They can be 100 generations behind for all I care. They just should be completely separate from the state.

#8 “The fact that there’s some investigation, and that the church could have “punished” the minister.”

The fact that the matter was on the agenda does not make the church body homophobic. As I understand it, the Cathedral Chapter (Tuomiokapituli) is obliged by its rules to take up complaints made by members who think that a member of the clergy is in violation of Church teaching.

Fundamentalist hard-liners like to do this from time to time whenever a liberal theologian ruffles their feathers. I can’t remember when one of these complaints would have prevailed.

I think, that if that female minister would’ve blessed that lesbian couple in church, all hell would’ve broken loose. Or frozen over.

It’s more likely for Finland to win the Eurovision Song Contest… wait…

…and I’d like to see a vicar preach with an axe in his hand…

…and the church to pay more attention to the special effects & sound quality in general.

The fact that the matter was on the agenda does not make the church body homophobic

What would have happened if she would have done this while in the church?

“In the absence of church policy, ministers around the country have blessed around a dozen gay marriages – although never inside a church.”

That’s the line they *don’t* want to cross.

YES,,I don’t want to hear God is the same words as, gay is good….homosexuality leads to extinction…1 man + 1 man = no humans…
1 woman + 1 woman = no humans but good porn….stop your crying you liberal little pink panty sissies..get some back bone and cry to your mama…you damn girly men

You girly men….hahahahah what i hate more then a drag qeen wanting to be a woman is a man that girly….who is more gay ? >> the girly man is more gay…

Im gay today….mmm,, gay meaning happy…hahahah

This discussion is interesting enough to keep me away from just looking at porn all day long…

But really: the Finns might call themselves somewhat tolerant & undesrstanding… but there are still some things that we just will not have.

homosexuality leads to extinction…1 man + 1 man = no humans…

LOL! Do people seriously use that reasoning as to why they’re anti-gay?

1 woman + 1 woman = no humans but good porn…

I’m gonna need some good porn cause your comments have left me limp.

Subject: Today’s History Lesson

Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter.
The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer. These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:
1. Liberals
2. Conservatives.
Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That’s how villages were formed.
Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as the Conservative Movement.
Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q’s and doing the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Liberal Movement.
Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became known as girliemen.
Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided.
Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass.
Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare.
Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn’t fair to make the pitcher also bat.
Conservatives drink domestic beer. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives, athletes, Marines and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living.
Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America. They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for nothing.
Here ends today’s lesson in world history: It should be noted that a Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above before forwarding it. A Conservative will simply laugh and be so convinced of the absolute truth of this history that it will be forwarded immediately to other true believers and to more liberals just to piss them off.

#21 And exactly what does this cut-and-paste low-brow orgy of strawman argumentation and cultural stereotyping have to do with the topic?

Kimmo W

wow,, it has to do with everything pinky

Wow! It appears that Finland is just another normal (whatever that is) country just like all the others. Everyone is a little kooky in their own little way…

Sometimes I wonder if there is a set standard that all humans are supposed to fit into? And if there is, I wish someone would tell me! If your too fat, too skinny, too tall, too short, too dark skinned, too light skinned, too loud, too silent, you must be wrong in some way. hahahaha….

kimm…, you jumped on it didnt you ? I was posted you you to say the thing you just said.. go put on a dress, pinky

I hereby withdraw the first statement I gave in #19…

born in the USA, where did you pull out that one? It was far too “creative” to be originally written by you.

Your comments are such an obvious provocation that I think you won’t find many here willing to engage in a dialogue with you (although you never know, keep trying if you’re really in serious need for some TLC). But for the record, I’ll tell you that in some sad and pathetic way you’re kind of endearing. Kind of.

Drinking domestic beer is conservative? Sounds more like left-wing, worker-oriented protectionism to me

The rest is funny—maybe sort of truthful—but I guess you have to see it from an American perspective

The rest is funny—maybe sort of truthful

Funny? Call me a liberal if you want but funny? No, not really.

Sort of truthful? More like a parade example of one uneducated malicious stereotype after another. Not so much. More like hatred and bigotry dressed up as “humor”.

The church (or churches as here are two of them under the same legislation in Finland) should be completely separated from the state. Then they could be as homophobic as they want or as anything else they want.

As an atheist, I kind of like the current “people’s church” that is conservative enough to keep most of the Jesus freaks in and liberal enough to appeal to the syncretistic masses enough to keep them as paying members.

If I was a business owner, then I wouldn’t like having to pay a church tax, of course.

The separation of church and state would cause the Lutheran church to be splintered into a number of independent groups, some of which would be quite extreme. It would have a lesser effect on the Orthodox church, I believe.

The separation of church and state would cause the Lutheran church to be splintered into a number of independent groups, some of which would be quite extreme.

How so?

#30 Hatred Åboy???

Obviously, it’s not meant to be taken seriously. Of course, in America, the winner-take-all political system makes it necessary to draw clear distinctions as reflected in the writing—sort of like good vs. evil. Naturally, the other side is always the evil one.

The truth that I do see in it, is that right-wingers (US conservatives in this case) are the job creators via their risk-taking activities. Whereas the left-wingers (US liberals) are job takers who live off the capital that’s created or won.

It was perfectly embodied in the caveman metaphor. Or was that a meat-aphor?

In any case, that’s how a market economy seems to work. In practice, both groups (creators/takers) are needed. If either gets too powerful, it can throw things out of balance. Here in Finland, we’re a bit too far on the takers side, as evidenced by the high proportion of foreign investors (hence, job creators) that own our industry.

How so?

There’s potential in the Lutheran revival movements for groups that would make Fred Phelps seem tame. I see the church tax and the close relationship with the state as a a glue that holds the thing together and the struts that keep the walls wide and the ceiling high.

Of course, churches in the Helsinki area would mostly splinter off into liberal, tolerant yuppie churches with some hardcore Jesus freaks gathering around folks such as Mika Ebeling.

Historically the free churches in Finland and Scandinavia came from the left (they challenged the conservative state churches after all). Socially some of them are still quite radical, of the “all men are created equal” kind. However, what we have seen since the 1980s is some pretty aggressive missionary work from conservative American religious groups with entirely different social and theological background. Mika Ebeling and his anti-choice campaign is a typical example of this type of religious Americanization.

born in the a-hole is making me horny with all this gay talk. He’d better prepare himself as I am starting my own invasion US-style to liberate his ass.

If Christianity is anti-Gay, Christianity should be banned, or at least taken to court.

Great jub, dumbass.