Assisting with your financial troubles - Public vs. Private
Nowadays you can get a loan over SMS. Simply send a text message and BAM!! …you get a few hundred or even thousand euros. The interest rates are high, but it’s understandable considering the high risk they take on. From The Ovi via Scandinavian Finance…
The quick loans are what really get me, this idea in Finland that has been around now for about a year. They are so easy and they do not check out if you can even pay it, all you need is a mobile phone, a Finnish address and ID number, and then the money is all yours.
Just text all this information to the company and within 10 minutes 100€, 200€ or up 300€ could be yours. You get 30 days to pay it back, with 25% interest added. So gone are the days when the young could not go out because they were low on cash because now they can now get it in advance.
During the summer this year, a company called hetilaina.fi, had ads everywhere you looked: Buses, bus stops, billboards and more…they went on a crazy marketing campaign. However, the great thing about this company is that they give you 13 months to pay back and you can borrow up to 2000€ and the interest on that is 19%.
Wow, ain’t technology and a free market just great? It might save you from losing your house, car, or gambling fingers. Score one for the private sector!
Now here’s the Finnish public sector’s solution to your financial troubles…
The Consumer Agency Money and Debt Advisor services took on board 15,580 new clients last year. This was slightly less than a year earlier, but then again there was also a minor cutback in the funding. This year, slightly more money has been allocated to the operation.
The queueing time varies. In the Helsinki area, one may have to wait for two months to get an appointment.
Sorry but your mortgage bank, car dealership, or bookie probably won’t give you another two month extension. I think getting booked on the Dr. Phil show takes less than that!
Huh. Just go to ing.com and the rates are like 8%.
The internet will shut those high prices down.
from ing web site: “A great variable rate as low as 8.25% APR! Borrow up to $250,000 with no points, no appraisal fees and no annual fees”
Comment by winter — Sun, Jan 28th, 2007 @ 10:22 pm
Heh, I wonder how many consumer agency money and debt advisor customer are those, whose…err…moped started wheelies with those quick loans
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Sun, Jan 28th, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
It’s expensive to be poor.
.
Comment by Kras — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 12:03 am
According to newspapers they are supposed to be paid back fast, but if you wait a year the rate can be 2000%. I think thats pretty lot, in few decades you own more money then many nations.
Comment by Somedude — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 12:36 am
Borrow from ING.com at 8%.
Invest in TR Price small cap stock funds, getting 16%
pocket the difference.
Its realy is that easy. I did that for the last 3 years. Now I am building my Million dollar house in southern Maryland.
Come get rich. Run from the welfare state.
Comment by winter — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 2:32 am
or become a lawyer in America
“The average associate attrition rate for law firms of about that size or bigger for 2004 was 21%, up from 16% in 2002, according to a study by the National Association for Law Placement.”
with
“a base salary of $160,000 for first-year associates, more for more-senior people”
Come get rich. Run from the welfare state.
Comment by winter — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 2:47 am
“You can pay associates a lot of money, but if they don’t feel like they’re being treated well, they are going to bolt.”
wait… we don’t even have a law that the Nanny state says they can’t fire you.
Wonderful, how it works here in the USA. No riots over a “No fire law”.
Comment by winter — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 2:52 am
Um, maybe the reason so many people require debt assistance from the state is the existence of such absurdly unregulated and predatory private loan sources? That would seem quite a bit more likely.
Comment by Rich — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 9:27 am
Where I come from, paying off a loan with another loan is called “being stupid”. Getting financial advisory, however, is considered smart. But to each their own.
Comment by Anzi — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 11:38 am
existence of such absurdly unregulated and predatory private loan sources?
I have multiple Finnish credit cards, a house mortgage, and a car loan from this “absurdly unregulated and predatory private loan sources” …I haven’t had any problems and manage my finances quite well. They’re certainly not to blame.
Comment by Phil — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Anzi: “Where I come from, paying off a loan with another loan is called “being stupidâ€Â. Getting financial advisory, however, is considered smart. But to each their own.”
What if the financial advisor tells you that “paying off a loan with another loan” is the best solution?
It’s called consolidation. Makes perfect financial sense in many cases. You can get a lower payment, lower interest rate or both, depending on your needs.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 11:52 am
Phil,
a) The fact that you haven’t had any debt problems does nothing to prove that there are ‘clearly’ no problems with the current loans system. It’s like saying “I haven’t had any cancers from smoking. Therefore cigarettes are certainly not to blame…”. You realise not everyone is as smart and financially savvy as you?
b) Mortgages etc are not absurdly unregulated - i was referring to the case in questions of loans by text, which i maintain are under-regulated (and the government and most of the banking industry agrees). And i also maintain that the majority of very easy to get, high interest loans, are predatory in that they are aimed at stupid people. And there’s a wealth of evidence, and multi-national parliamentary investigations which support that.
Comment by Rich — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
An evil welfare state law requires hetilainaa.fi to state the actual annual rate of interest, which is 29.62 per cent. Good luck with your finances, Phil. Hope you never have to use the evil welfare state debt counseling.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
Well, the American debt explosion is surely an interesting phenomenon, the saving rate I believe is close to 0%, and not it would seem the the housing market bubble is bursting quite speedily. winter, you better pray your fundamentalist God that the Chinese Communist party will continue financing the American debt ridden economy or things might get very ugly indeed…
And yep, most of these text message loans have an interest rate around 30% and many people are basically getting only deeper into difficulties by temporarily getting these cash inflows. The public agency you mentioned is basically intended for people that have already gotten into deep trouble with their private sector loans and have for the most part already lost their credit rating.
Comment by mjr — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 12:46 pm
You realise not everyone is as smart and financially savvy as you?
Exactly! That’s the problem, not these loan companies.
And i also maintain that the majority of very easy to get, high interest loans, are predatory in that they are aimed at stupid people.
A lot of products and services are aimed at stupid people. But these high interest loans may be better than no loan at all, especially if you’re able to lose your house or car or something.
Comment by Phil — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
Hope you never have to use the evil welfare state debt counseling.
If I was flat broke and living in the gutter, I would never waste my time going to some state debt counseling.
Comment by Phil — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
Paying off a loan with another loan is a common practice among many small entrepeneurs, and not a bad idea in itself. Of course, paying an annual interest rate of 30% requires that you are either stupid, drunk, or extremely poor without any other options.
Comment by N. Siinistö — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
Heh heh
I just thought of something…. If government financial advisory services were to perform their job correctly, they’d have to teach the economic concept concerning Time Value of money. But then, people would start to realize what the welfare state really costs them.
For example, to borrow from my example in another thread, consider Finland’s alcohol business (Alko). Let’s say their weekly purchases cost consumers an average of 10e/week above what it would cost in privately-owned stores in other European countries. That 10e/week doesn’t sound like very much, right?
Well, if you invest that 10e/week overpayment in a mutual fund that yields 10%/annum growth, you’ll have 32.000e after 20-years!
Alko’s overpricing has just cost you a new car! Should we go one step further and prove that Finland’s car-tax will cost you well over 200.000e?
I can do it, if you like…
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 1:08 pm
Well, but surely Alko’s market inefficiency also increases our productive lives - an efficient and cheap market solution would have people’s livers exploded in a jiffy! And that surely costs money which we use to measure EVERYTHING. Kristian, one is curious, do you regard Kokoomus as a right wing party at all - in Finnish terms your views really are quite fringeish. But I’m not saying anything about anoraks. And if you live in Westend, then it’s ok even then, though the water levels might be rising in the coming decades and decreasing property values that obviously are very close to your heart.
Comment by mjr — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
mjr: “….an efficient and cheap market solution would have people’s livers exploded in a jiffy!”
Ahhh, but here’s the interesting thing: Alko’s wine pricing forces consumers into the high-price category to get any reasonable value. At that price level, wine competes with hard liquor (e.g. vodka). What do you think the ‘real’ alcoholics choose?
Alternatively, if supermarkets would sell big wine jugs for 2.5e like in other countries, THEN what do you think they’d choose?
mjr: “Kristian, one is curious, do you regard Kokoomus as a right wing party at all - in Finnish terms your views really are quite fringeish.”
Not in particular. That’s why I belong to the Libertarian wing of the SPD
And NO, I don’t live in West End!
I simply want an economy that runs optimally for everyone, regardless of income level. I derive ideas from other places I’ve lived. And if I feel they are universal—that is, not income-level-dependent or location-dependent—then I’ll support them. It’s really that simple.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
Where I come from, paying off a loan with another loan is called “being stupidâ€Â.
So if you have 10 loans of 200 euros at 30% interest then getting one loan of 2000 euros with 8% interest is… being… able to count?
Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 7:47 pm
winter:
“a base salary of $160,000 for first-year associates, more for more-senior peopleâ€Â
You left out the price tag on a Harvard law degree.
Borrow from ING.com at 8%.
Invest in TR Price small cap stock funds, getting 16%
If my funds would happen to depreciate in value, I’m sure you’ll pay the difference.
Come get rich. Run from the welfare state.
This may be difficult for you to grasp, but I don’t have to move to the US to have access to the financial markets.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
Franklin: “This may be difficult for you to grasp, but I don’t have to move to the US to have access to the financial markets.”
Yeah, but if you want to earn enough CAPITAL to invest, then the US isn’t a bad place to go. Plus, you can put before-tax dollars in a retirement savings account, where you’re free to invest in financial markets any way you choose.
By the way, if you’re going to NYC as you previously mentioned, then take about 1500e spending money and a shopping list. The savings of purchasing in America vs. Finland will pay for your air-travel expenses. That’s not even considering the favorable exchange rate.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 8:21 pm
Yeah, but if you want to earn enough CAPITAL to invest, then the US isn’t a bad place to go.
I believe that winter’s model involved borrowed capital, and it is indeed easy to get an investment loan with an interest rate well below 8% in Finland.
By the way, if you’re going to NYC as you previously mentioned, then take about 1500e spending money and a shopping list.
I intend to do so. I’m definitely not buying new lenses for my D70 from Finland. Too bad that many things on my shopping list are electronic gadgets, which have their nuisances when bought from over the pond. By the way, are Nokia’s toys cheaper in the US? I’m lusting after a Nokia 800, if it’s released by then.
Phil, have you had an opportunity to play with one?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
“winter’s model involved borrowed capital” is correct. Now leverage, get dollars, invest, become rich.
You to will have a Hummer in the driveway. Mine is 5 years off, but I will get it.
Comment by winter — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 12:11 am
I forgot to ask. Can I drive a Hummer in Finland? Are there any laws against it?
Comment by winter — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 12:14 am
No, my dear winter, you are welcome to open your personal carbon dioxide plant should you feel like it - apres tois de deluge and all that.
Comment by mjr — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 1:50 am
le, not de, Phil, would you not get that preview function, such a simple thing…
Comment by mjr — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 1:51 am
“personal carbon dioxide plant”
have that, its called a Sauna
Comment by winter — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 2:45 am
I forgot to ask. Can I drive a Hummer in Finland? Are there any laws against it?
Yeah, I see them often. I couldn’t imagine parking those things, Finland has smaller parking lots and parking spaces than the states.
Comment by Phil — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 8:21 am
le, not de, Phil, would you not get that preview function, such a simple thing…
I’ll look into it. Until then, try signing up, then you can edit your comments: http://www.finlandforthought.net/wp-register.php
Comment by Phil — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 8:22 am
I tried signing-up, but…
“ERROR: This username is invalid. Please enter a valid username.”
I guess it doesn’t like the parens in my username :-/
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 8:53 am
winter: “Can I drive a Hummer in Finland? ”
Hey winter, three helicopters shot-down last week in Iraq so you can pour lots of gas into that Hummer. Hope it was worthwhile to you
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_helicopters
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
31: Cheers, Phil - I finally did register. Evil welfare statists are gradually infiltrating your site!
Comment by mjr — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
“helicopters shot-down last week in Iraq ”
Yes, but we are doing somthing.
Wait, supporting thugs and killers in Lebanon is also doing something.
Guess we are even.
Comment by winter — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
#35 “…but we are doing something.”
Yeah, you’re LOSING!
Comment by Kimmo W — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
LOSING?
By what standard? Lets ask an Iraqe? From Iraq the model
1. “insurgents and terrorists fleeing Baghdad to Diyala, and today there’s another report about a similar migration, from al-Sabah:”
Yes, we are losing, they seem to be running away, so how can we win.
2. “Maliki won unanimous support for his plan in the parliament and despite some opposition from the radical factions the major blocs are expressing their support and approval of the plan:”
yes, again, we are losing, as the parliament supports the next push.
3. “president Bush authorized the US military to capture and kill Iran’s agents who are involved in the violence in Iraq, the Iranian Khalq opposition group released a list with the names of 31,000 Iraqis the group said are paid agents for Tehran operating in Iraq, ”
Yes, losing again, these guys will soon be gone. Hated to see them go.
from Healing Iraq
4. “250 – 300 militants were killed in the clashes at Zarga. “16 terrorists†were detained, including two Egyptians and a Saudi. ”
And I just hated the losing of these guys as well.
So again, I ask, what standard?
Comment by winter — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 10:59 pm
Actually, I don’t know what arguing the Iraq war has to do with the topic of loan sharking via SMS, but since we’re there, here it goes:
Listing kill ratios is fairly irrelevant in this conflict. The US military and political establishment has simply not figured out the concept of asymmetrical warfare. Here’s a quotation from a column by “War Nerd” at the Moscow-based eXile magazine:
“If you read military blogs, you know the type: guys who say “we won every battle in Nam!” as if that proves we should have won. Boneheads! The NVA/Viet Cong strategy was classic irregular warfare stuff, based on outlasting the enemy, not defeating him in battle.”
You can find the rest of it here:
http://www.exile.ru/2006-November-03/the_doctrine_of_asymmetrical_war.html
I especially recommend point number 4, which debunks the notion:
“Overwhelming force! Hit the insurgents hard enough, and they’ll quit.”
Comment by Kimmo W. — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
I suggest you re-read “2. “Maliki won unanimous support for his plan in the parliament ”
Yes, its a political solution that will win. Me thinks we are there.
Comment by winter — Tue, Jan 30th, 2007 @ 11:41 pm
“Yes, we are losing, they seem to be running away”
Ah, so the terrorists are running away now. I feel relieved.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 12:01 am
#39: “I suggest you re-read “2. “Maliki won unanimous support for his plan in the parliament —
I seem to recall that shortly before the US invasion, there was a referendum in Iraq, in which Saddam won 100% of the vote. I find that result just about as impressive as the one that you are refering to.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 1:42 am
“Saddam won 100% of the vote.”
were guns involved? Oh wait its not PC to point out 12 million purple fingers.
Comment by winter — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 2:14 am
#42 So here’s another American who doesn’t understand the concept of sarcasm.
The 100% yes vote for Saddam did NOT impress me very much.
As for the purple finger photo-ops - it’s about as impressive as the voter tunrouts in South Vietnam in the late ’60s.
You’re still LOSING!
Comment by Kimmo W. — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 2:25 am
Neck! NOW!
winter: how about 400 IRAQI REFUGEES PER WEEK OF SWEDEN
Comment by tim73 — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 3:41 am
AND YOU GUYS TAKE 208 WHOLE LAST YEAR. THE NUMBER ONE REFUGEE NATION OF EUROPEAN UNION LAST YEAR WAS IRAQ!. SO FUCK YOU WINTER.
Comment by tim73 — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 3:43 am
SO WINTER, DO NOT EVER EVER EVER TALK HERE AGAIN. WHETHER FINNISH ANCESTORS YOU EVER HAD, FUCK OFF
Comment by tim73 — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 3:45 am
NEVER!
Comment by tim73 — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 3:45 am
WINTER: NEVER: YOU DIE!
Comment by tim73 — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 3:48 am
I still kill you Kansas and Texas crap because I AM FROM THE ORIGINALS SHITTY PLACE of Osterbotten. You are just STOLE THE LAND FROM INDIANS FUCKERS and we got the nukes too
Comment by tim73 — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 3:58 am
JEP
Comment by tim73 — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 4:05 am
tim73
SO WINTER, DO NOT EVER EVER EVER TALK HERE AGAIN. WHETHER FINNISH ANCESTORS YOU EVER HAD, FUCK OFF
So that was tipaton tammikuu for you then, was it? Couldn’t wait one more day?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 8:44 am
Re. 50 You show there how many finns are totally unable to deal with the shortcomings of this country. When faced with criticism, you threaten to kill people.
You’re a worthless drunk, a disgrace to your country, and I hope you die soon.
Comment by truth — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
@52: Calling winter’s flaming ‘criticism’ is really stretching it a bit too far.
Comment by aet75 — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
“400 IRAQI REFUGEES PER WEEK OF SWEDEN”
is that all? Wow you guys really prove your worth to the world. The stop, do not enter sign is still up?
“STOLE THE LAND FROM INDIANS”
Huh? Read a good book, called “Mayflower” by N Philbrick. He’s not BBC, so you just might learn they “paid” for all the land. Its quite interesting to see what really happened back then.
Comment by winter — Wed, Jan 31st, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
The 10 Most Free Countries (and their freedom scores) are:
Hong Kong (89.3%)
Singapore (85.7%)
Australia (82.7%)
United States (82.0%)
New Zealand (81.6%)
United Kingdom (81.6%)
Ireland (81.3%)
Luxembourg (79.3%)
Switzerland (79.1%)
Canada (78.7%)
The Heritage Foundation has published the 2007 Index of Economic Freedom… Where is Finland?
Its Number 16 (76.55)
Comment by winter — Sat, Feb 3rd, 2007 @ 3:54 am
The Heritage Foundation has published the 2007 Index of Economic Freedom… Where is Finland?
#1 is a part of a communist dictatorship, in #2 spitting on the street results in you being on the soles of your feet until you pass out from the pain.
Personally, I’m happy at #16, with no prison camps and beatings. Not that I am ecstatic about the current worst of both worlds situation.
It is interesting, though, that the social democratic welfare state Luxembourg is at #8. Clearly having free dental care is not such a detriment to Freedom[tm] as you seem to imply.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sat, Feb 3rd, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
Capitalism is great. It’s what allows ambitious individual Americans to succeed, and Europeans to be collectively mediocre.
Comment by winter — Sat, Feb 3rd, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
#57
“Capitalism is great. It’s what allows ambitious individual Americans to succeed, and Europeans to be collectively mediocre.”
Yes individuals are allowed to succeed while the majority fails
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Feb 6th, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
Yes individuals are allowed to succeed while the majority fails
To be fair, I’d rather belong in the “failing” American majority than the “succesful” Finnish white collar proletariat.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Feb 14th, 2007 @ 8:35 pm
hummer is the best suv you can have i would buy one if you can afford one they are chick magnets
Comment by trent jones — Wed, Nov 14th, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
http://limasite.info/replica-handbags/replica-louia-vutton-handbags.php
Comment by Bush — Thu, Jan 3rd, 2008 @ 5:54 am