Fazer to change “racist” mascot
Pressure from the EU, Finnish Consumer Agency and Ombudsman, media and others have forced Fazer to change its “racist” mascot which it has used since 1927.
Sweets maker Cloetta Fazer says it will be changing the wrapper of one of its most popular products. Lakritsi liquorice’s mascot is considered by many to be offensive, even racist. The wrapper features a caricature of a black figure, with the exaggerated red lips and cornrows reminiscent of the reviled blackface images of the mid 20th century.
This mascot would never survive one day in the United States, the Fazer family would be hung from a tree for using this logo, but I seriously doubt that many Finns know anything about blackface (Honestly, I’ve seen the logo many times, and never really realized what it was until the media brought it to my attention). Back in 1927, “blackface” was considered acceptable by whites, now it’s considered grossly inappropriate and racist…
Blackface is a style of theatrical makeup that originated in the United States, used to affect the countenance of an iconic, racist American archetype  that of the darky or coon. Blackface also refers to a genre of musical and comedic theatrical presentation in which blackface makeup is worn. White blackface performers in the past used burnt cork and later greasepaint or shoe polish to blacken their skin and exaggerate their lips, often wearing woolly wigs, gloves, tailcoats, or ragged clothes to complete the transformation. Later, black artists also performed in blackface.
[...]Blackface minstrelsy’s groundbreaking appropriation, exploitation, and assimilation of African-American culture  as well as the inter-ethnic artistic collaborations that stemmed from it  were but a prologue to the lucrative packaging, marketing, and dissemination of African-American cultural expression and its myriad derivative forms in today’s world popular culture.
It raises some interesting questions – if something is inappropriate elsewhere in the world, is it appropriate everywhere? Take the Mohammed cartoons for instance, they’re forbidden in many parts of the world, so should they be forbidden everywhere? But maybe that’s a bad example, is being critical of religion versus being critical of race like comparing apples and oranges, since one is a choice while the other is not?
And I wonder how much longer they’ll wait before they change the Brunberg kisses mascot..?
I wonder if you know that Brunbergin suukot used to be named Neekerin pusut…
I understand the reasons of changing the logo here, of course, but hey, it’s just liquorice! Would a white face on a bar of white chocolate be considered racist then
Anyway, I feel sorry for an old household logo disappearing.
Comment by Agent Provocateur — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 11:29 am
I am absolutely against any form of racism and often I am getting mad about the people who constantly are defending the racism among Finns as being ” just not used to outsiders” -what a crap! But…. this is ridiculous! The Fazer and Brunberg logos and images have historic value and were never intended as a denigrating, or otherwise. I can not see any connection to racism. Not then and not now.
Comment by majava — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 11:40 am
The competing brand (Halva) even hired The Delta Rhythm Boys for their advertisement in the 70’s…
Otherwise this is so this (tää on niin tätä). Don’t touch the underlying problems, just make it look neat.
Hmmm, how about next removing the caricatures of 37 years old, slightly bald white guys from the commercials, especially from those marketing medicines for erectial dysfunction.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 11:54 am
…and the kids nowadays aren’t allowed to play catch, with the signature shout: “Kuka pelkää mustaa miestä?”
Racism my ass.
Comment by FinnFreak — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
what a crap! But…. this is ridiculous! The Fazer and Brunberg logos and images have historic value and were never intended as a denigrating, or otherwise. I can not see any connection to racism.
I think if you knew what blackface was all about, you’d change your mind.
Comment by Phil — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
I understand the reasons of changing the logo here, of course, but hey, it’s just liquorice! Would a white face on a bar of white chocolate be considered racist then
It’s not about having a black person as a mascot, it’s about blackface, which is intended to be racist.
Comment by Phil — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
“And I wonder how much longer they’ll wait before they change the Brunberg kisses mascot..?”
They did change the logo a little, at the same time as they changed the name. Or so I have read in the papers. The lips where made smaller and the girl got new clothes. She wore some kind of bast skirt before.
As for this whole thing, changing logos and stuff… It seems (white) people are very afraid of recognizing the different skin colors of colored people. Is it wrong or racist recognizing a difference, even though you don’t think or imply that one color is better than the other. A little like The Emperors New Clothes, isn’t it? People are so afraid of being labeled racists, they don’t see things for what they are and live with them.
Comment by s — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 12:45 pm
How about the Elovena girl? The mascot of oats flakes in Finland? It’s like this: http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/saajuha/elovena.jpg
Do you find that racistic? In fact it is, it’s a comparison made because of the girl’s pale face and blond hair. We blondes must rebel about this kind of racism!!! ;D
Comment by namelessgirl — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 1:08 pm
The flower-hatted aunties are out in force, trying to sanitize anything possible. Half of the class that I study with are from Africa, and most of them think that those candies are a bit funny.
Comment by Unit — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
Does anyone know if Musta Pekka playing cards still exist in stores? I remember playing it as a kid. Anyway, Musta Pekka (is the name derived from the Dutch Zwarte Piet of the wikipedia link?) is 1/1 blackface, the blackface caricature can also be found at old Pekka & Pätkä movies. Jees poks holirei!
Comment by Agent Provocateur — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
The Elovena girl is a drawing of someone meant to look like a human….the Lakritsi image is a spoof of a black woman…
Maybe the Elovena girl should have huge tits and assuming a position, or just look dumb….then there might be an issue…
The old Lakritsi mascot is totally racist, and to consider it just a thing of a more innocent past is indicative of the widespread ignorance of racism in Finland
Comment by Kai — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Musta Pekka playing cards are no more – they are now simply “Pekka” playing cards.
…I wonder when the movie “Pekka ja Pätkä neekerinä” (1960) will get banned..?
Comment by FinnFreak — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
Once upon a time in Africa, by the Tsikkadua -river,
lived a boy Huuaakotti, black like washed wit soot.
(Couldn’t make it rhyme).
I know packings and wrappers with images and caricatures of atleast indians, blacks, eskimos, spaniards, laplanders, savoyards, osthrobonians… aww, they keep coming and coming, I’m drowning in ignorance and racism!
I’ve seen a hc anti-racist and human rights activist laughing at Kalliala-Petelius nunnuka-nunnuka loilaa -performance…
Comment by issi — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 2:35 pm
FinnFreak,
but does the picture of (Musta) Pekka still exist in the cards?
Comment by Agent Provocateur — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
My wife and I joke about bringing suukoja back from Finland as treats for the staff in the office. The box would certainly result in that being my last day at work.
They are good though.
Comment by Fred Fry — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
The (Musta) Pekka is a chiney sweeper now.
Comment by issi — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
issi -language: chiney = chimney.
Comment by issi — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
I read in HBL about a couple of months ago that Brunberg is going to change the packaging this year. They already got rid of the word neger in the title a few years ago on the kiss product.
Personally I don’t really see the racism in it. I think people are misconnecting both the Fazer and Brunberg product images in some kind of PC frenzy. For instance, would you consider the packaging of Kalles kaviar racist towards Scandinavians? Of course not (I hope).
I think it is very sad to lose these parts of our history. I particularly feel sad about the eventual change of packet by Brunberg, as it is a good company from my hometown of whom I have known many of the staff and it is part of the town’s history. I have actually already put a box away in the storage for history’s sake.
Comment by JG — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
That a society is multiracial is at best a neutral fact of life. At worst, it’s a condition that poisons everything by turning every other issue into a race issue. Multiraciality is really nothing to celebrate. Should a society already be multiracial as a result of various accidents of history, fine. But deliberately constructing a multiracial society is asking for trouble.
Comment by Markku — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
Spoken like a true racist, Markku….At best it is a neutral fact of life? c’mon, multiracial societies have produced e.g. jazz, hardly neutral….
multiraciality is a wonderful occurence
…Finland would do well with a deeper gene pool…
..Every other issue hopefully won’t have to become one of race..
But to get a taste of one’s own medicine, let’s suggest:
Putting a character of a fat, pathetic, middle-aged drunk Finnish man in a tacky warm up outfit with his ass hanging over his trousers on every bottle of Koskenkorva/Finlandia and exporting that…
Making the Elovena girl more porn-stylish…or at least have her wearing a white winter coat and smoking and also with tons of make-up, cause we all know that’s what Finnish girls really look like…
Some other suggestions? I gotta run…
But the point is stereotypes do sometimes sting a bit, and racial stereotypes are normally born out of racism…I think most people here don’t realize what the blackface character really was…
Comment by Kai — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
Well, it’s good that American misbehavior is being used to define racism for Europe. Otherwise, neither we native Europeans nor the targets of our alleged racism would even know that racism is occurring.
Are we planning to invite some American lawyers to setup a proper legal framework that incentivizes as many lawsuits as possible? Uttering a Latin derivative (e.g. neekeri, Neger, etc) should be worth at least a half-million euros, right?
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
I’m pretty sure black footballers in the Spanish Primera Liga know what racism is when it happens to the EVERY GAME!!
Comment by Kai — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
There is no way that those pictures/mascot are someway racists. But i dont mind if they change it into something else. Its still sad to happen. :,(
Comment by Jyväskyläinen — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
Kai—the African footballers in Germany also know what racism is about. Fans in eastern Germany threw bananas at them last year and made monkey sounds. It’s unfortunate, but people are reacting to their government’s irresponsible immigration policy that’s been in effect for the past decade. Even though Germany is probably more open to multi-racial immigration than Finland, it really goes against people’s wishes.
But throwing bananas and making monkey sounds is one thing. Equating a black licorice man with American blackface, is quite another.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
“Spoken like a true racist, Markku…”
The true meaning of the word “racism” is racial discrimination. All other uses are merely about trying to demonstrate one’s superiority. You can’t demonstrate that I advocate racial discrimination, so your calling me a racist is baseless.
“.At best it is a neutral fact of life? c’mon, multiracial societies have produced e.g. jazz, hardly neutral….”
Thanks to mass media physical location is irrelevant to artistic creativity.
“multiraciality is a wonderful occurence”
According to the flower hats, yes. Such propaganda is part of the vast effort to keep the lid on the tensions that such pluralism under the same jurisdiction is bound to cause, given human nature.
“…Finland would do well with a deeper gene pool…”
Are you some eugenicist or what!? Are you seriously suggesting that the Finnish gene pool is in a real need of improvement? What kind of an anti-racist are you? Unbelievable.
“..Every other issue hopefully won’t have to become one of race..
In your dreams. The more multiracial a place is, the more it’s politics is filled with racial bickering and at every level.
See an article about the situation (with ample references) in Los Angeles, for instance:
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/070115_hollywood.htm
As I said, if a country already happens to be multiracial, then there is little choice but to live with the fact. But it is idiotic to deliberately create a multiracial condition.
Comment by Markku — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
Phil:”But maybe that’s a bad example, is being critical of religion versus being critical of race like comparing apples and oranges, since one is a choice while the other is not?”
The Lakritsi logo or the Brunberg packaging are not about being critical of race, but a cultural throwback to an age in Finland when Africans truly were something exotic and in every sense outlandish, almost something mythical. In my view these pictures are not caricatures of real black people but expressions of a fantasy world of a young and innocent Finland. It makes one wonder if the original designers of the logos had even seen real black people during their lives.
Originally, the logos were born out of ignorance. But now, 80 years later, they could be said to represent a recognised part of a Finnish cultural canon, among with other examples of design and, say, architecture from the 20’s. So banning them, now, is not only dumb political correctness, but also akin to denying the political and social atmosphere of an earlier part of Finnish history. It is good to note that the twenties were not exactly defined by racial segregation or oppression here…
You could almost say that banning the logos results from of a new kind of ignorance and intolerance. I think Kristian is spot on in #21 above…
Comment by Drakon — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
Kai – “Putting a character of a fat, pathetic, middle-aged drunk Finnish man in a tacky warm up outfit with his ass hanging over his trousers on every bottle of Koskenkorva/Finlandia and exporting that…”
That’’s what the Silja/Viking cruises and the public parks are for honey
I think people are forgetting that Fazer has an export market and just because the image isn’t offensive to tighty whitey Finns, any other country with a reasonable black population would have that shit off the shelves in days if not hours.
And Kristian, do remember that America didn’t invent racism or the slavery trade…America began as a colony of misfit Euros
Al Jolson was a Lithuanian Jew…. Anywhere else in the world, blackface carries a negative connotation which even Finns get ( see http://www.axis-of-aevil.net/archives/2003/09/brilliant_illus.html which is a mockery of Michael Jackson using this technique.).
It’s a lovely, clean logo, but it doesn’t take genius to understand why its time has come to be retired.
Comment by hfb — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
Phil, don’t go down this road of sensational journalism as well. One MEP said she didn’t like it, that’s hardly “the EU”. If one Finnish MP says something, does that represent entire Finland?
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
hbf—
I think the Brunberg image has origins in French caricature, relating to theater, music scene, etc., rather than something invented here in Finland. Those types of images were once very popular in Europe and still are to some extent. In fact, there’s an entire Dutch festival centered on a certain blackface character. Parades of blackfaced people march through cities and throw candy to people. There is nothing racist about it.
As Drakon stated, Africans are historically seen in an exotic vein here. The racist connotation is only something that can be seen through an American prism. And thankfully this isn’t America—a country that can’t seem to keep its Mexicans and Blacks from killing each other.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
This topic desperately needs input from black people living in Finland. A bunch of whiteys debating the issue is moot and awkward, IMHO.
The images are certainly based on racist colonial stereotypes, which, incidentally are more European than American. Trying to slap American minstrel tradition on this subject reeks of cultural imperialism. Sorry yanks, we already have racism. No need for you to export it. Whatever their origin, these stereotypes they have been merely imported to Finland, not invented here, and I strongly doubt that the people responsible for the illustrations had a clue about all the implications. Neither do I think that they are somehow essential parts of Finnish culture or that their fate should be decided anywhere outside the companies in question.
Related:
How’s this for “reality radio” – YLE 70 years ago?
“Vain Afrikan neekeri ei veikkaa.” Considering that Veikkaus is part of the welfare state machinery…oh, if Phil only knew…
Has censorship struck? That old Veikkaus ad is impossible to find.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 8:05 pm
Here it is!
Translation:
“Only an African negro doesn’t bet
All others do and WIN!
Betting continues, this time on exciting ball games!
By betting you support youth sports education”
The ad is from Veikkaus Oy from 1960.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
hfb:
I think people are forgetting that Fazer has an export market and just because the image isn’t offensive to tighty whitey Finns, any other country with a reasonable black population would have that shit off the shelves in days if not hours.
Some British organisation was threatening to have Fazermint, a top seller, pulled from UK airports many, many years ago. Apparently these threats didn’t amount to much.
But I have to admit that even I, a Finnish non-genius (is that a tautology?) think that perhaps a museum is a better place for said logo than the local R-kioski. Even brands, sacred as they may be, do change over time.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Tue, Jan 16th, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
I should have read the comments from the Samizdat piece. Apparently it was just a parody of There’s something about Miriam. Source critique, boys and girls…
The Veikkaus ad is the real McCoy, though.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 12:35 am
In answer to Freeridin’ Franklin, I am a Black (British) residing in Finland. I don’t speak for all black people living in Finland but I will say that when I first came across the Lakritsi liquorice and the blackface mascot I felt offended. Plain and simple.
Why don’t Finns understand that Fazer has made a decision to go international (basically meaning exporting to the most profitable economies out ther – US, UK, FRANCE, etc) and they simply could not continue to brand one of their key products with such a backward thinking image to basically forward thinking markets. Phil has already kindly given a Wikipedia link about this images meaning and not one defendant of the logo has responded to the facts from this link. Why is that? Let me add a few more important links again from Wikipedia which should, at the very least, alert those “whites” who see nothing racist or offensive towards blacks with the image remaining on the liquorice packets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwog
and the next link shows you how even a larger organization in Robinson’s in the UK with a greater history of using blackface dealt with the issue in similar fashion to Fazer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertsons
Comment by Britti — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 12:35 am
Britti: “….when I first came across the Lakritsi liquorice and the blackface mascot I felt offended. Plain and simple.”
So….. Can we assume that you didn’t buy it?
Truthfully, I wish they’d get rid of all the licorice/salmiakki products on Finnish store shelves and replace it with normal candy. That stuff is horrible!
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 3:17 am
Britti, I think you are making the same misunderstanding as for instance the English member of the EU parliament has made with your association of the Fazer licorice logo (and indeed also Brunbergs kiss logo) as with this blackface person. The reason we haven’t really responded to it is because it is not who Fazer and Brunberg have modelled their branding after. Can I ask you, do you think that as a blond and blue eyed Finnish person, I should be offended when I pick up a tube of Kalles Kaviar?
In any case, for those that read Swedish, Hufvudstadsbladet has a leader on this: http://www.hbl.fi/pagespeed/url/News/story/4277956?s=1&k=fazer&type=fulltext
Comment by JG — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 3:30 am
I guess if I were a Black person, I’d worry about people licking me to see if I taste like Lakritsi.
But then again, under the right circumstances, it could be used to one’s advantage. Just thinking about some possible intros at a disco…..
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 6:18 am
Freeridin’ Franklin, those adds were made only because Germany invaded parts of Lapland in WW2 and there are still some nazis to be found. Some of them are apparently making adds for newspaper.
Comment by Jyväskyläinen — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 8:16 am
“”Can I ask you, do you think that as a blond and blue eyed Finnish person, I should be offended when I pick up a tube of Kalles Kaviar?”"
You might be offended if Kalle was holding a whip or a noose, smiling contendedly. Or??
This is what blackface is about.
Comment by RAVE THE DAVE — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 8:46 am
#39 DAVE THE RAVE: “You might be offended if Kalle was holding a whip or a noose, smiling contendedly. Or??
This is what blackface is about.”
DAVE, that describes blackface in America. We didn’t hang Blacks here in Europe. At worst, we used their caricatures to represent the Devil. It might be due to the Moors’ invasion of Spain. But even that interpretation isn’t traditionally Finnish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 11:22 am
Personally I find this thing to be blown out of proportion. I do not think that “Laku-Pekka” is a racist symbol and I will be sad to see this traditional image go. The truth is that I realised only a few years ago that that image was supposed to represent a black person. until then, it was just an abstract image for me.
But the picture is also a sign of the times and those times are long gone.
Comment by Anzi — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Are we planning to invite some American lawyers to setup a proper legal framework that incentivizes as many lawsuits as possible? Uttering a Latin derivative (e.g. neekeri, Neger, etc) should be worth at least a half-million euros, right?
But isn’t their logo based on blackfaced American actors?
Comment by Phil — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
I agree what Kristian said about difference of the meaning of this image in U.S. and here. Like we are suffering of someone else’s mistakes. Remains me the swastika and it’s meanings in different times and associations, not to mention dozen other symbols..
Taboos around symbols, images and even colour schemes are infact keeping these negative meanings and aversions alive.
What if we started to use the swastika (for example) just like any other ancient theme in clothing, jewellery, etc…
It would be ripping the exclusive rights from all skinheads and nazis and shake the dark past off.
I’ve seen many red & yellow t-shirts with a hammer and chisel logo already, althought pretty bad deeds was done under that sign also.
The confederate flag of south is bind with racist opinions also, but Brian Setzer gives a damn’ great show, especially with the BSO.
Comment by issi — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
The Lakritsi logo or the Brunberg packaging are not about being critical of race, but a cultural throwback to an age in Finland when Africans truly were something exotic and in every sense outlandish, almost something mythical. In my view these pictures are not caricatures of real black people but expressions of a fantasy world of a young and innocent Finland. It makes one wonder if the original designers of the logos had even seen real black people during their lives.
But that logo *is* based on blackface which *is* racist. I don’t think they were purposefully being racist back in 1927, and alot of others who participated in blackface events didnt think they were being racist either….but they were.
So banning them, now, is not only dumb political correctness, but also akin to denying the political and social atmosphere of an earlier part of Finnish history.
Even though I find the logo racist and think it’s a good idea that Fazer removes it, I don’t think it should be “banned” by the state.
Comment by Phil — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
D’oh.
Again someone compensated my yada yada with just one sentence before I pushed the submit -button. Sign of the times indeed.
Thank’s a lot, Anzi.
Comment by issi — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
I do not think that “Laku-Pekka†is a racist symbol and I will be sad to see this traditional image go.
If I don’t find the word “nigger” to be racist, does that mean it’s not? :-/
Comment by Phil — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
Phil, admit it, you’re a closet liberal (in the American sense of the word): you moved to semi-socialist Finland from the Land of the Free and always rave about liberal pet issues like symbolic racism.
Comment by Markku — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
The same news bit that told about this told also that the picture of geisha has been removed from Geisha chocolate. Who did that offend? Japanese geishas? Or all Japanese women?
Comment by presso — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
34 Well, Britti, I really wonder why they then made a noise to have banned “neekerinsuukko” as a name and not something else first. I mean a kiss is a nice and positive thing when you think of it. Now the only word left in the dictionary is neekerisankkeri
(last published in Iltalehti in the Saturday edition). So no more are you allowed to get kisses, but you get the clap from the black person.
I don’t know, I’d find “Finnish kiss” much less offensive than “Finnish veneral pox” but thats just me, I guess the flower-hatted aunties like that word-association better….
.
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
#30 Franklin, herers another:
http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/markotu1/kuvat/neekeripoika.jpg
Kaikki iloiset ihmiset juovat NEEKERIPOIKA kahvia!
“All happy people drink Negro Boy coffee.
Now the fez-clad houssa in the package doesn’t look too happy; but where is the “negative” in this advert really? It is more promoting the exotica.
I think of the underlying association. You rarely saw a black person on the street in the 1950’s or 1960’s, so when you saw a black person what would you think of? Coffee, chocklate, licquorice = good yummy things… I’d rather be word-associated with good yummy things than vodka, knives and snow for exampl. e
Comment by Hank W. — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Nr 39, Dave the Rave… firstly neither Fazer or Brunberg would have used this American blackface character as their inspiration. It really is not possible to see everything through American eyes even in these globalised days, it is a mistake to do so. I think this whole issue has been blown up out of all recognisable proportion and common sense by people trying to view Finland through a tainted pair of glasses from country’s with a different history.
Now, I don’t understand why you should say if Kalle was holding a whip/noose than I should possibly be offended… maybe so.. maybe not. But largely irrelevant as so far as I see neither the Fazer logo or the Brunberg logo are doing anything particularly offensive such as threatening violence.
Comment by JG — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
Phil, admit it, you’re a closet liberal (in the American sense of the word): you moved to semi-socialist Finland from the Land of the Free and always rave about liberal pet issues like symbolic racism.
Not at all, and here’s the difference – An American liberal would cry “it’s racist” then would continue saying, “the authorities should shut them down! they should be sued! they should be forced to undergo sensitivity training”. I say, “it’s racist, they should voluntarily change it”.
Comment by Phil — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
firstly neither Fazer or Brunberg would have used this American blackface character as their inspiration.
Why not? It was 1927, blackface was popular, and “accepted”. Has Fazer come out and said, “It’s just a coincidence, it’s not blackface!” ?
Comment by Phil — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
53, Phil… even if it is true (unlikely) that the inspiration is the American idea of “blackface”, then we would not have adopted it for the same reasons as Americans.
Remember, that for most Europeans and certainly for Scandinavians in the 1920s there simply were no black people to encounter on a daily basis, frankly for most Finns never in their lives. Therefore there was no racist background to this logo choice, quite the opposite, the logo would have been seen as exotic. I have never looked at a packet of Brunbergs kisses (which growing up in BorgÃ¥/Porvoo where they are made were hard to avoid) and thought it was racist. Frankly the thought never crossed my mind. Likewise with the Fazer licquorice. However, it now seems that we are to be told by people with little or no understanding of Finnish culture that these images should be seen with an imposed and false context that they are meant to demean certain ethnic groups and are racist. If anything this is where the real intolerance lies, in this over the top imposed political correctness. I think today’s leader article in Husis has it right; where is this to stop?, should Valio now rename Eskimo ice cream to Inuit?
Comment by JG — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
By the way, not all Eskimos are Inuit. Yupiks resent being called Inuits.
Comment by Markku — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
When I look at the Brunberg “Suukot” package, all I see is a boy and a girl kissing in the moonlight, presumably somewhere in Africa. I think it’s sweet, just like the product itself.
Comment by Anzi — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
How would you Finns feel if there was say, (trying to find a product completely unrelated to Finns here) a brand of tequila called the “Finnish Afternoon” with a blonde blue eyed fella on the bottle.
It may not be purposefully racist, but WTF does liquorice and marshmallow chocolates have to do with black people? Some of you said that blacks used to be “exotic” and “rare” in Finland — well, nowadays they’re decidedly neither of these things.
Things change.
Comment by DAVE THE MAVE — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 10:25 pm
I’m so used to hearing and seeing completely off-the-wall things, images, and beliefs about Finland that nothing surprises me anymore. If I saw a bottle of tequila like that, I’d have a drink out of curiosity. And I hate tequila.
Like I said, I have never associated the “Suukot” with black people. I have always associated them with warm, soft, kisses. This, not black people, is what the picture on the box represents to me.
Comment by Anzi — Wed, Jan 17th, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
How would you Finns feel if there was say, (trying to find a product completely unrelated to Finns here) a brand of tequila called the “Finnish Afternoon†with a blonde blue eyed fella on the bottle.
Hell, it would probably surpass Suomi Viina or Leijona in sales.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 12:10 am
There was a “captain” vodka on sale that had a picture of a bearded sailor. They withdrew the logo as it implied sailors were drunk.
Maybe we should start marketing “Flower-Hatted-Auntie” brand pills that boost ingtelligence
Comment by Hank W. — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 3:30 am
Its about time I am a black American and have been here for 4 years and the first thing I saw when I got here was those racist candies and wonder about this society. To many Finns are selfish and think only of how they interpret what they see. With the amount of foreigners coming into this country whether it be for tourism or for refugee you would think you would be a little more excepting to people that are helping to better your society. I say this only because of your the countries decision to allow more races into it. If you want a nice white society where candies such as “nigger kiss” are acceptable then do not allow other races into your society and deal with the consequences of the international community condemning you and your economy slowly declining. I love the finnish mentality that we don’t need anybody and can do everything for ourselves, but stop to think when people actually take you up on that to see how far you will get with no assistance whatsoever. I am amazed everyday to see the direction a welfare state goes when faced with a opportunity to show compassion or thought for your fellow man. Maybe Finland isn’t as forward thinking as many are lead to believe its more of a inconsiderate vibe that is reminiscent to the American 50″s. The thing is I understand why your not so open to newcomers I get that I just wish you were more honest with your selves instead of trying to hide it with what you think is a higher understanding of things you know nothing about. You can’t talk about how things are racist or not because you ever faced racism how could you for a long time you have only been around one race. Sure you have been around different nationalities but that is not a race a Russian may be Russian but he is still white. So its just ludicrous to think you have some kind of understanding about something you rarely deal with.
To the question is something still offensive if the same history behind it is not carried in that local. I would love to answer no but in reality it is because offensive things are personal so it affects every one differently. So yes if something is offensive to that person even though the object that is being offensive isn’t aware of it doesn’t negate the fact it is offensive. It just means I have to be understanding of this person and explain to him how he offended me in the hopes that they will then acknowledge my feelings on the matter and correct their behavior.
Comment by Kourtney N. Williams — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 6:11 am
The more there is diversity in a society, the more there are grievances like those expressed by K.N. Williams above. Such grievances cause a lot of political friction in society and a loss of freedom of speech and intellectual inquiry as there will usually be some group offended by some avenue of inquiry. There will also be more government bureaucracy required to manage race/ethnic relations.
Comment by Markku — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 9:30 am
In their private lives most people tend to avoid diversity like plague. The way people choose where they live and who they associate with shows that. People self-segregate by race when choosing where to live, for instance. They also choose like-minded people for friends. That is why various bureaucratic programs are needed to force diversity.
Comment by Markku — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 9:35 am
I think today’s leader article in Husis has it right; where is this to stop?, should Valio now rename Eskimo ice cream to Inuit?
I don’t see a real problem with the current Brunberg logo, it’s two native Africans kissing or whatever. Eskimos aren’t a problem either. But blackface was a deliberate attempt to belittle (to say the least) black people, it’s a racist icon wherever it is.
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 11:28 am
Such grievances cause a lot of political friction in society and a loss of freedom of speech and intellectual inquiry as there will usually be some group offended by some avenue of inquiry. There will also be more government bureaucracy required to manage race/ethnic relations.
Don’t blame that on foreigners and diversity. Blame that on white people in suits called “politicians” who make these oppressive laws.
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 11:35 am
In their private lives most people tend to avoid diversity like plague.
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 11:35 am
“Don’t blame that on foreigners and diversity. Blame that on white people in suits called “politicians†who make these oppressive laws.”
I don’t blame foreigners or members of other races for diversity. Diversity is the cause of a lot of problems but diversity itself cannot be blamed. Sometimes diversity is just an accident of history and just has to be lived with. Sometimes it’s an artifact created by politicians for the purpose of gaining “progressive” credentials.
Curtailing freedom of speech and inquiry is a near inevitable consequence of diversity and maintaining peaceful relations between the diverse factions of society. Identity politics combined with the grievance industry are too lucrative for career politicians.
Comment by Markku — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Phil was amazed to hear that I though most people avoided diversity like plague in their personal lives. (I don’t know whether he was amazed that I _said_ it or that I thought so.)
But it’s true. People tend to self-segregate based on lifestyle, nationality, race, social class, language, and age among other things when it comes to choosing where to live, where to work, who to befriend and so on. I do understand the talk about “celebrating diversity” in genuinely diverse societies as necessary propaganda to minimize conflict. But it is foolish to mistake propaganda for reality.
Comment by Markku — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
I don’t see a real problem with the current Brunberg logo, it’s two native Africans kissing or whatever. Eskimos aren’t a problem either. But blackface was a deliberate attempt to belittle (to say the least) black people, it’s a racist icon wherever it is.
My point to this would be, who are you to say that Eskimo Ice cream or Brunberg current logo is not as offensive are you a Eskimo are you African and if you are either are you a representative of the entire race. I agree that to you it may not be so offensive but the point is to think about how someone else takes it. I find Brunberg current logo offensive only because I know wheat it is derived from. To someone that doesn’t know may not be so offensive, but if they knew well enough to change the name then I would say they should have gone the hole way and redone the packaging. Its not the word that makes it offensive it the connotation that anything brown or black is related to people of that skin color somehow.We don’t have a character of a albino on covers of white chocolate wrappers. What makes it ok to condemn one race or religion and not another. Who are we to say one is worth condemning and another is above that. It takes me back to the character of Mohammad that cause the uproar in Denmark, the point was missed their of course I do not condone violent protest over something that I find as trivial as a cartoon but the point was that you attack a people that have little to no voice in that country. They are not represented well enough for it to be ok to pick on their religion it is similar to a school yard bully. If in a entirely Muslim word with a minority of Christians they drew a picture of Jesus molesting a child(a play on the Catholics church actions as of late) the Catholic world would have gone ape shit, maybe not violently but in outraged non the less. They would have the right to be upset as should the Muslims who’s religion was attacked. Denmark knowing how fragile that relationship was in this day and age and in that particular country should have been more sensitive to that.
Comment by Kourtney N. Williams — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
I find Brunberg current logo offensive only because I know wheat it is derived from.
That’s a good point I didn’t think about. The logo itself is fine, and could be appropriate in other situations. But knowing that it used to be called Nigger Kisses, probably cause the chocolate is brown, is pretty fucked up.
I’d love to see this stuff sold in countries that had a substantial black population. They’d quickly go out of business. Lots of Finns would lose their jobs then our tax money would go to bail the company out, or the town where the factory is.
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
I think that would be Negro Kisses, Phil. I don’t think the word neekeri has ever carried as much negative connotations as the word nigger. “Nekru” might be a more accurate translation of nigger.
Anyway:
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/uutinen.asp?id=1303092
It says, among other things, that Claude Moraes, the MEP who started this all, is sick and tired of insulting and threatening e-mails from angry Finns. I wonder how long before this is featured on Conan.
Comment by maissi — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
(61) Kourtney N. Williams: “So yes if something is offensive to that person even though the object that is being offensive isn’t aware of it doesn’t negate the fact it is offensive. It just means I have to be understanding of this person and explain to him how he offended me in the hopes that they will then acknowledge my feelings on the matter and correct their behavior.”
I’m sorry to say, but your whole comment sounds like “American Arrogance” to me. You come here all the way from the America and start teaching us what is right and what is wrong? I understand that you are offended by Brunberg or Fazer logo – and I am sorry for that – but that does not make your opinion an Universal Truth. No Finn I have talked with sees these logos in any way racist.
My point is: If you live in a foreign country you shoud try to accommodate yourself to that culture, instead of trying to change the whole culture to suit your opinions.
And BTW, it was only 10 – 15 yeers ago when I learned that the word “neekeri” had a neagative meaning to some people. To me it means simply people who you might call “black”. Nothing else.
Comment by Antti — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
It’s sad that “neekeri” has become somewhat offensive. It is such a nice and technically accurate term for a person whose ancestors were Sub-Saharan Africans. The current term “musta” (=black) is inaccurate because Southern Indians, native Australians, and Papua New Guineans are also quite black but they are genetically very distant to Sub-Saharan Africans.
Comment by Markku — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
You come here all the way from the America and start teaching us what is right and what is wrong? I understand that you are offended by Brunberg or Fazer logo – and I am sorry for that – but that does not make your opinion an Universal Truth. No Finn I have talked with sees these logos in any way racist.
If there was actually a substantial amount of blacks in Finland, it would be considered racist.
My point is: If you live in a foreign country you shoud try to accommodate yourself to that culture, instead of trying to change the whole culture to suit your opinions.
Okay, so no one except for Americans is ever allowed to say anything bad about the crime or poverty problems we have in the U.S.
And BTW, it was only 10 – 15 yeers ago when I learned that the word “neekeri†had a neagative meaning to some people. To me it means simply people who you might call “blackâ€Â. Nothing else.
My Finnish skills aren’t fluent enough to form an opinion. But would for instance, Tarja Halonen use “neekeri” in public?
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
“Okay, so no one except for Americans is ever allowed to say anything bad about the crime or poverty problems we have in the U.S.”
Well, I think (or hope!) everybody agrees that crime and poverty are bad things. That is not a matter of opinion. Whether Fazer “blackface” is racist or not _is_ a matter of opinion. If I don’t think it’s racist but someone else does, why should my opinion be wrong? Is there such things as wrong opinions? And yes, I have thoughts about crime and poverty problems in the U.S., but I wouldn’t dare to teach you how to solve them. I’m not that arrogant. I want to believe, that you can solve your own problems better than any outsider. The other reason is, of course, that I don’t have the answers…
“My Finnish skills aren’t fluent enough to form an opinion. But would for instance, Tarja Halonen use “neekeri†in public?”
No, she certainly would not. Nor would I. I don’t deliberately want to hurt anybody’s feelings. That still does not mean I would consider “neekeri” a racist word, though.
Comment by Antti — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
Whether Fazer “blackface†is racist or not _is_ a matter of opinion.
No, it’s racist, that’s a fact. Are you arguing that back in 1927 they it was coincidence that they chose a mascot that looks exactly like a blackfaced actor?
But just for sake of argument, let’s say that was a coincidence. What’s the old Finnish swastika-looking logo? It has NOTHING to do with the Nazis, should a company be using that as their mascot? (probably a bad question since the Finnish air force uses it still)
If I don’t think it’s racist but someone else does, why should my opinion be wrong? Is there such things as wrong opinions?
If someone doesn’t think the word “nigger” is racist, does that make it so?
And yes, I have thoughts about crime and poverty problems in the U.S., but I wouldn’t dare to teach you how to solve them.
Why not? Americans need all the help they can get.
No, she certainly would not. Nor would I. I don’t deliberately want to hurt anybody’s feelings. That still does not mean I would consider “neekeri†a racist word, though.
If you and Tarja would never use it, obviously there’s some problems with the word.
Comment by Phil — Thu, Jan 18th, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
The comments posted here show to the outside world what life is like for foreigners that dare to come to live in Finland. Do not come.
Finns practise protectionism. They are quite happy to emigrate, but they cannot accept a foreigner living in Finland. Anything foreign in Finland is run down or patronised.
How would Finns that live abroad cope if they had to endure their culture being rubbished?
Finns should start behaving.
Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Jan 20th, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Or they should withdraw and isolate themselves internationally.
2 000 Brits live in the whole of Finland
20 000 Finns live in London alone.
the 20 000 Finns in London should come home until Finland learns to treat its foreign population in the same way as other countries treat their foreigners
Comment by Anonymous — Sat, Jan 20th, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
Good lord. What has a 80-year-old picture in a candy wrapper to do with how Finns treat foreigners?
Nekru = nigger
Neekeri = Negro (as Spanish for black)
Are Spanish-speakers racist when their language has such word? You are trying to transport American racial history and its consequenses into Finland. It is impossible since Finland does not have that kind of history.
Comment by presso — Tue, Jan 23rd, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
Holy shite ‘n stuff; I just turned racist because of all this BS…
[size=6192][color=lolzcauster]
Warning: Overload!
Warning! Me being under construction!
Danger! Explosive athmosphere!
Warning! Dangerous finnish niggerians on loose!
[/size][/color]
Comment by ha haha ha ha — Wed, Jan 24th, 2007 @ 1:40 am
whites ur fucking negros lol u think that we care about that
restrict urselves from having negro candy and i might give u sum buttsechs
)
Comment by proud negro — Wed, Jan 24th, 2007 @ 1:56 am
Kristian (in Espoo) said:
[i]“Well, it’s good that American misbehavior is being used to define racism for Europe. Otherwise, neither we native Europeans nor the targets of our alleged racism would even know that racism is occurring.
…
But throwing bananas and making monkey sounds is one thing. Equating a black licorice man with American blackface, is quite another.
…
DAVE, that describes blackface in America. We didn’t hang Blacks here in Europe. At worst, we used their caricatures to represent the Devil. It might be due to the Moors’ invasion of Spain. But even that interpretation isn’t traditionally Finnish.”[/i]
First of all, Europeans most certainly participated in the slave trade, creating bullshit who’s-really-human? racial “theories,” and colonizing Africa (with people in the “mother countries” profitting from that colonization, exploitation, and genocide of Native Africans). America has been racist and exploitative — and so indeed has Europe.
Blackface originated in the U.S., but it was was quite popular in Europe as well. In addition, before blackface was ever created in the U.S., minstrel shows portaying and mocking pseudo-Indigenous South African bodies (see Saartjie Bartman and “Hottentot Venus”) originated in Europe and were very popular. A Dutch colonialist doctor swindled Saartjie Bartman, a native Khoisan woman, into travelling around Europe to show her very rotund buttocks (steatopygia), long vulva (elongated labia minora), and so forth; he put her in a cage, and Europeans paid to touch and grope her body through the bars, verbally mocking and belittling her. Her image became a popular cartoon in Europe, inspiring the European minstrel shows mentioned above. When she died, they cut up her body and pickled her brain and vagina, put her skeleton on a frame, and put her pickled and framed body parts in France’s “Museum of Humanity.” Her body (parts) were not released from the museum until the 1970s.
The thing is, the Fazer “black man” looks exactly like blackface, and nevertheless uses the exhausted black body as an object. I’m not saying that Fazer ever had any horrible malevolent intentions, or that Finns are horrible, racist people, just that a big, internationally exported Finnish product using these kind of images on its packaging may be construed, misconstrued, or simply taken as offensive and really insensitive given the history of these images and what black people have had to put up with for so long.
And thinking back upon the racialist and racist theories that the Finns were subjected to in the past (Finns = stupid, poor “sub-human Mongoloids”), it would be so inappropriate and insensitive to have, say, non-Finnish produced little sliver-shaped candies that were called something Finnish Mongoloid Eyes, with a cute little drawing of a poor slit-eyed Finn on the cover. It’s about context. White chocolate packaging with a drawing of a white person isn’t offensive or hurtful, because “whiteness” has never been degraded and abused the way “blackness” (or somewhat-Siberian genetic origins) have.
I don’t think that Finns who don’t mind these images are racist schmucks, or that these images should be outlawed — but it would be nice to simply be sensitive to fellow humans who have for generations been treated as degraded objects, and recognize that these images are hurtful, even if it doesn’t hurt you.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Jan 24th, 2007 @ 2:09 am
lol a dead niggah check my website ;heil hitler;
Comment by true friend — Wed, Jan 24th, 2007 @ 2:11 am
PHIL said: [i]Not at all, and here’s the difference – An American liberal would cry “it’s racist†then would continue saying, “the authorities should shut them down! they should be sued! they should be forced to undergo sensitivity trainingâ€Â. I say, “it’s racist, they should voluntarily change itâ€Â. [/i]
That is SO hyperbolic. I’m an American liberal. I say “it’s racist, they should voluntarily change it.”
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Jan 24th, 2007 @ 2:11 am
Nice generalizing there, Anonymous.
Oh crapz0r, should I really say it after reading all these responses, especially the responses made by non-finns… Arite here goes; All you fucking cry babies (read as NIGGER lovers) who think that NIGGERS belong to Finland, raise your hands. That’s right NIGS, you don’t tell finns how to behave against NIGGERS, amirite?
“But would for instance, Tarja Halonen use “neekeri†in public?”
She would if she had the guts, no doubt. Most of us finns are giving in too easily just because some foreign NIGGER(S) tells us how to treat them which naturally is bullshit.
Hey Fgt. Phil, next time you make such a retarded discussion instead of it being “NIGGERS in FINLAND in ENGLISH”, how about the subject being “who gives a fuck about morality”?
Comment by JTF420 — Wed, Jan 24th, 2007 @ 3:02 am
No what is arrogant a society or person that thinks it knows it all. No why people assume America is arrogant its because we deal with so many more issues than most not all but most societies do. To the racist Godless person who sees’ fit to spark reaction by using hurtful words grow up if the whole world was as angry as you and the venom you spit it would have collapsed by now. I n only hope the future isn’t in the hands of people such as your self. To Antti I completely understand why you feel and think the way you do at least I think I do. You may think that racism is a opinion because of the fact you have never been a victim of it. You may think that something isn’t racist because the thought never crossed your mind. You maybe the most open minded individual in the world. I think in reality you are just a person that has never had any reason to think about race because you have never been around a different race and you never listen to the story of someone that has gone through racism tell you there feelings on it.
One last and final thing because I see that this conversation has been headed in a direction that is non productive. I did not come to Finland to create a dialog about racism in America I have had crosses burned on my yard and many other atrociousness, and even after all that I was not very big on talking about my political views but since being here and seeing the affects this society has had on many of the blacks here and the thought that a young generation of black and mixed children will grow up here I have found my self speaking up more and more. I mean not to preach to anyone or even attempt to think I can tell this society how it should be when my own society hasn’t gotten it right yet. I do think what I can do is express the feeling of a world I would like to live in hope to challenge someone to think in a new way and hope that I too would be opened to new things.
Comment by Kourtney N. Williams — Wed, Jan 24th, 2007 @ 7:34 am
Kristian (in Espoo) said: “Well, it’s good that American misbehavior is being used to define racism for Europe. Otherwise, neither we native Europeans nor the targets of our alleged racism would even know that racism is occurring.
…
But throwing bananas and making monkey sounds is one thing. Equating a black licorice man with American blackface, is quite another.
…
DAVE, that describes blackface in America. We didn’t hang Blacks here in Europe. At worst, we used their caricatures to represent the Devil. It might be due to the Moors’ invasion of Spain. But even that interpretation isn’t traditionally Finnish.”
First of all, Europeans most certainly participated in the slave trade, creating bullshit who’s-really-human? racial “theories,” and colonizing Africa (with people in the “mother countries” profitting from that colonization, exploitation, and genocide of Native Africans). America has been racist and exploitative — and has Europe.
Blackface originated in the U.S., but it was was quite popular in Europe as well. In addition, before blackface was ever created in the U.S., minstrel shows portaying and mocking pseudo-Indigenous South African bodies (see Saartjie Bartman and “Hottentot Venus”) originated in Europe and were very popular. A Dutch colonialist doctor swindled Saartjie Bartman, a native Khoisan woman, into travelling around Europe to show her very rotund buttocks (steatopygia), long vulva (elongated labia minora), and so forth; he put her in a cage, and Europeans paid to touch and grope her body through the bars, verbally mocking and belittling her. Her image became a popular cartoon in Europe, inspiring the European minstrel shows mentioned above. When she died, they cut up her body and pickled her brain and vagina, put her skeleton on a frame, and put her pickled and framed body parts in France’s “Museum of Humanity.” Her body (parts) were not released from the museum until the 1970s.
The thing is, the Fazer “black man” looks like blackface, and regardless uses the exhausted black body as an object. I’m not saying that Fazer ever had any horrible malevolent intentions, or generalizing Finns horrible, racist people (1/2 my family is Finnish!), just that a big, internationally exported Finnish product using these kind of images on its packaging may be construed, misconstrued, or simply taken as offensive and really insensitive given the history of these images and what black people have had to put up with for so long.
And thinking back upon the racialist and racist theories that the Finns were subjected to in the past (Finns = stupid, poor “sub-human Mongoloids”), it would be so inappropriate and insensitive to have, say, non-Finnish produced little sliver-shaped candies that were called something Finnish Mongoloid Eyes, with a cute little drawing of a poor slit-eyed Finn on the cover. It’s about context. White chocolate packaging with a drawing of a white person isn’t offensive or hurtful, because “whiteness” has never been degraded and abused the way “blackness” (or somewhat-Siberian genetic origins) have.
I don’t think that Finns who don’t mind these images are racist schmucks, or that these images should be outlawed — but it would be nice to simply be sensitive to fellow humans who have for generations been treated as degraded objects, and recognize that these images are hurtful, even if it doesn’t hurt you.
Comment by Anonymous — Wed, Jan 24th, 2007 @ 8:27 am
Nr 69,
The fact is that European / white people are used on white products. In Britain, there is a white chocolate bar called “Milky Bar” that is marketed using a blond child called the Milky Bar Kid. Here in Norden we have Kalles Kaviar as you have no doubt seen.
People keep saying that the Fazer Lakrits logo comes from this American black face character. The problem is that is incredibly unlikely, Fazer is not an American company. We do not live in the USA. OK, whilst today American culture is big in Finland and elsewhere, it was not when Fazer devised this particular brand. It’s just a very innocent brand that now the over the top political correctness brigade has misinterpreted using a different set of cultural values to judge Finnish society.
Comment by JG — Wed, Jan 24th, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
Tällaiset jutut osoittavat juuri sen, että Philin kaltaiset amerikkalaiset idiootit eivät tajua suomalaisesta kulttuurista tai yhteiskunnasta yhtään mitään.
Comment by Mikko Ellilä — Thu, Jan 25th, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
What if we just replace the black person caricatured with a Mongolian one?
Would that make everyone happy?
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Thu, Jan 25th, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
Tällaiset jutut osoittavat juuri sen, että Philin kaltaiset amerikkalaiset idiootit eivät tajua suomalaisesta kulttuurista tai yhteiskunnasta yhtään mitään.
Yay! A libertarian dogfight! Where’s the bookie? I’m betting on the rabid one…
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Jan 25th, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
The people complaining about the negro pic on Fazer candy, are the very same who replaced the blonde girl with a negro on some other finnish brand, elovena? same disgusting people!
Comment by The Swede — Thu, Jan 25th, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
The people complaining about the negro pic on Fazer candy, are the very same who replaced the blonde girl with a negro on some other finnish brand, elovena?
What are you babbling on about? A recent ad for HBL, the Helsinki-based Swedish daily, had an ad featuring a black woman as the Elovena girl, with the text “Another point of view”. It was a jab at Hesari.
same disgusting people!
People who work in advertising? Oh well, can’t argue with you there.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Thu, Jan 25th, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
Has any Finn know there was a African-American who was the US Ambassitor in Finland in the early 60’s? As a Black-American I hope things will change soon.
Comment by BlkUSA — Fri, Jan 26th, 2007 @ 2:48 am
“Has any Finn know there was a African-American who was the US Ambassitor in Finland in the early 60’s? As a Black-American I hope things will change soon.”
What do you mean? Would you like an African-American to serve as the US ambassador in Finland and for him/her to make racial trouble in Finland? Ambassadors are professional diplomats and usually don’t meddle with candy papers in their host countries.
Comment by Markku — Fri, Jan 26th, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
Has any Finn know there was a African-American who was the US Ambassitor in Finland in the early 60’s?
It has been discussed on this blog:
http://www.finlandforthought.net/2006/02/16/conan-at-the-us-embassy-in-finland/#comments
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Fri, Jan 26th, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
As a Caucasian, I am VERY offended…….
http://www.pillsbury.com/AaLL/
Make him dance….indeed
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Sat, Jan 27th, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
Kourtney N. Williams wrote:
“You can’t talk about how things are racist or not because you ever faced racism how could you for a long time you have only been around one race”
Excuse me but you don’t know nothing about Finns history. Finns have been for several centuries been discriminated because of “race”. Swedes classified us as “dirty mongoloids” and treated us as such. I suggest that you take a look at history not just american history.
What pisses me of the most is that now today the same “racial” discriminations is still abundant against Finns by cultural imperalistic americans, French, Germans , and Brits who come here and tell us how we should do things and how we are no-good, the bottom of the barrel.
Finnish culture is different and believe me when I say that the candy Neekerin pusut has nothing to do with finns being racist towards black people. So please take off your american sun-glasses and try to understand Finnish cultural history as it is and not from the point of american cultural history.
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Jan 28th, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
Make him dance….indeed
See if you can teach the white boy any moves.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Sun, Jan 28th, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
If Laku-pekka and Neekerinsuukot are offensive towards blacks then should Finns feel offended about these commercials
Japanese Xylitol-gum commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmbdagDgqxw
or better yet this korean one is “equal” to the Laku-Pekka logo of the candy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvyoqZvoofY
I think not as I am sure that Finns understand the notion of these commercials. Just like Africans were exotic to finns during the time when these “controversial” logos were born. Finns are now just as exotic to Japanese and Koreans as Africans once were to Finns.
There is absolutely nothing to be offended about those logos nor about those above mentioned commercials, when you understand the cultural history about them. Should we change them for other reasons as times are different is an another guestion.
Comment by Blah — Sun, Jan 28th, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
And I forgot to add that I find the Korean commercial very funny.
Hyvä Hyvä
Oh shit I hear the PC police knocking on my door. I have to hide, see you after a few weeks
Comment by Blah — Sun, Jan 28th, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface
I recommend to the people that say there is nothing offensive in the pack’s design, to please read this before they post their next comment.
Comment by Tanya — Sun, Jan 28th, 2007 @ 9:30 pm
Tanya—I can only assume you are American. Because only an American would think that every country is JUST LIKE AMERICA more-or-less, with the same baggage of past evil-doing.
By now, after 102-posts in this thread, we are all familiar with American-style minstrel shows, which also had a more limited presence in Europe. But, as already stated in this thread, FINLAND IS NOT AMERICA! We never had minstrel shows, enslaved blacks, lynched blacks, nor even made them sit in the back of the bus. This image was NOT conceived to ridicule or degrade anyone.
Although I’m not particularly fond of the product, I must admit that I’ve grown attached to the packaging. I’ve seen it on store shelves since I was very young—since the late sixties! Now, thanks to America’s sins, we’re being asked to relinquish an important part of my childhood memories. Wonderful. Just wonderful.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 12:09 am
Amerikkalaiset ovat idiootteja, MOT. Amerikkalaiset tulevat tänne kertomaan ikään kuin jonain uutena tietona meille, että Amerikassa on joskus sata vuotta sitten ollut kenkävahaneekereitä; tämä on sitten olevinaan joku argumentti sen puolesta, että Fazerin lakupekka pitäisi kieltää Suomessa nykyään. Äly hoi, älä jätä.
Oikeesti, nämä vitun idiootit pitäisi lähettää ensimmäisellä koneella takaisin Jenkkilään. He eivät tajua Euroopasta yhtään mitään eivätkä haluakaan tajuta. He oikeasti luulevat voivansa käyttää sadan vuoden takaisia amerikkalaisia kenkävahaneekereitä jonain argumenttina Fazerin lakua vastaan. Kuinka kukaan voi olla noin vitun tyhmä?
Comment by Mikko Ellilä — Mon, Jan 29th, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
Luckily the vast majority seem to have common sense. Before the poll was removed on this site, the number of people realising it is not racist was very highly majority.
Also, our politicians seem to also have common sense. So far, in the interviews of party leaders on Obs, all that I have seen (including Sfp/Rkp, Green and Christian Democrat leaders) have all answered “no” it is not racist.
Comment by JG — Thu, Feb 1st, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
Great comments, hbf.
Comment by Pete Halonen — Wed, Jan 30th, 2008 @ 11:40 pm
The wrap paper is not a big deal as such. Finland has never had a racist murder not lynching which took place in USA even late 60´s and in several countries even today. sweden has even recently annd they are as double faced that americans.
I wonder why USA has the highest number of people in jail , usually humilated by guards , most of prisoners are black. This highes number by per centage in the world, Free democacy?
The real danger is that if we allow muslims and other stone age thinkers float in their values and skip our own because of fake equal opportunity. Soon we´ll have the sharia law and pork banned and bible thrown into gutter because these bandana heads need to be accepted. As everybody knows, those people do not tolare anything , but our politicians are so fucking afraid of criticism that soon we are in deep shit.
Comment by tapio , espoo — Thu, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 11:36 am
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Comment by sears life insurance company unum life insurance company of america — Mon, May 26th, 2008 @ 12:40 pm
Not much on my mind lately, but that’s how it is. My life’s been dull these days, but such is life. I haven’t been up to much recently.
Comment by bukkake movie — Mon, May 26th, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
My 10 cents worth:
I believe if you are going to make a stand against racism it has to be based on equality. After all; all men are created equal.
if the white man is going to get into trouble for saying bad things about the black man, then the black man should get in as much trouble for saying things against the black man. otherwise what you are really saying is that “black people don’t know any better” and “the white man is strong enough to take it”.
So yes i do believe a bar of white chocolate with a white man or womans face on it would be racist and worthy of prosecution just the same as liquorish with a black man or womans face.
Comment by Haiska Vittu — Sun, Jan 25th, 2009 @ 3:02 pm
sorry, I was a little distracted when i wrote that last comment. i meant to write in the second paragraph: “then the black man should get in as much trouble for saying things against the white man.”
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