Finnish man becomes governor of Najaf, Iraq
One of the refugees Minister Rajamäki would loved to have seen never make it in Finland…
The US-led coalition transferred the Iraqi province of Najaf, south of Baghdad, to local control on Wednesday.
In a telephone interview, Asaad al-Taee, the governor of the predominantly Shi’ite province described what he saw “Rauhallinen, ihana, aurinkoinen, kaunis päivä” (a peaceful, wonderful, sunny, beautiful day), he said - in fluent Finnish. Taee has Finnish citizenship; he and his family of seven children fled the rule of Saddam Hussein and came to Finland in 1993.
[...]Taee was elected governor of the province in January 2005. He belongs to one of the most respected Shi’ite families in Najaf. Before fleeing to Finland, Taee was involved in Iraqi politics and was jailed twice for his activities. The nine years that he spent in prison did not prevent Taee from taking part in an uprising against Saddam in 1991.
…interesting how Helsingin Sanomat never calls him “Finnish” or “a Finn” but rather, “Finnish citizen”, even though he has citizenship and speaks Finnish. I guess only white people will ever be able to be “Finnish”.
Yes and if a Finnish citizen commits crime, our media starts to study if he/she was really born in Finland. I think they will soon try to find if criminals have any foreign ancestors which is of course understandable reason for criminal behavior.
Finnish Green politician Umayya Abu Hanna was interviewed: “What do You think as foreignor…”. She became quite angry.
Merry Christmas, Hanukkah and Kwanzaa dear bloggers! And Ramadan too even though I believe it is already over…
Comment by bu jormanen — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
“…interesting how Helsingin Sanomat never calls him “Finnish†or “a Finn†but rather, “Finnish citizenâ€Â, even though he has citizenship and speaks Finnish. I guess only white people will ever be able to be “Finnishâ€Â.”
I think people find it more natural to relate Finnish-ness with ethnicity. For the most part, Finns are descended from the Volga, Siberia, Ingria, central Europe, etc. —or so the theory goes. Iraqis don’t really fit the normal ethnic profile. Then there’s the language issue……..
But, I think you’re more interested in exploring whether Finns are accepting of non-ethnically-related natives. I’d say probably less than other countries. Believe it or not, a dark-skinned person would probably feel more welcome in western Germany.
Also, I think Socialism contributes to people’s lesser degree of acceptance. Immigrants are more readily seen as people who hoard disproportionate amounts of resources. This Iraqi guy probably can’t be accused of that, but, unfortunately, he gets lumped-in with all the others.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
Maybe this dude has too much balls and dedication to be called Finnish.
Comment by aet75 — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 2:51 pm
In Sweden, even the children of immigrants are being called “second generation immigrants” rather than “Swedes”. So I doubt this will ever improve in Finland as times goes on.
Comment by Phil — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 2:55 pm
Is there any proof for the assertion that Rajamäki “would love to have seen” this guy “never make it to Finland”? Like, at all? If you study the refugee statistics, you’ll see that there are basically three countries from which refugees are accepted to Finland with a reasonable success rate and in relatively large numbers: Somalia, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
Do we know whether al-Taee considers himself to be a Finn? He’s an Iraqi-born Iraqi citizen living in Iraq. I wouldn’t be surprised if he considered himself an Iraqi first and foremost. As such, is it really an insult for the media to describe him as an Iraqi with Finnish citizenship?
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 3:02 pm
Hay, A Finn doing good in this world. I guess I will have to let you all lower the French White Flags of surrender.
Comment by winter — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 3:04 pm
I thought Arab xenophobia was contained to just the US, UK, and France. Evidently not! He must be a source of consternation to the True Finns. Even more troubling is the fact that he hasn’t been truly accepted into Finnish society, in spite of the fact that he has assimilated himself into the country and culture. If he were to assimilate himself into American society and culture, that would be a totally different story with a positive outcome.
Comment by Crosschecking — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 3:12 pm
Crosschecking -
I’m pretty sure he was accepted here just as well as he would have in other redneck backwater communities than Finland. Maybe not in New York, but definitely other parts of the U.S.
Comment by Pave — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 3:26 pm
Crosschecking, is there any proof for the assertion that “he hasn’t been accepted into Finnish society”? Like, at all? (Also, shouldn’t that in any case be “wasn’t accepted”, since he no longer lives in Finland?)
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 3:34 pm
You have to keep in mind that the USA is a country formed by immigrants from all over the globe. Finland on the other hand has been and still is a very homogenous country with a distinctive language, culture and history. It may take a while for “an average finn” to accept different kinds of finns. These kinds of processes can be slow.
On the other hand, it’s not so uncommon in the USA either to be left outside the “american” way of life. The last I heard was that according to some americans the Linux operating system is “unamerican” because it’s based on free distribution and not on capitalism and making profit.
Comment by Ã…boy — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 3:38 pm
Ã…boy: “The last I heard was that according to some americans the Linux operating system is “unamerican†because it’s based on free distribution and not on capitalism and making profit.”
And this is related how…?
winter: “Hay, A Finn doing good in this world. I guess I will have to let you all lower the French White Flags of surrender.”
How does it feel like to be part of a dying conservative right wing nut consortium, whose only contributions are rehashed, reappropriated, stolen misquotes from the Simpsons? (The phrase “Cheese-eating surrender monkeys” was first notably used in the Simpsons episode by Groundskeeper Willie in “‘Round Springfield” (first aired on April 30, 1995).
When are you guys gonna come up with something original?
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 3:47 pm
I guess if HS would have called him Finnish you would probably in turn have said that HS calls him Finnish to just take the credit for the Finns and of course for the welfare-state.
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 3:55 pm
3 cheers for Mr. Asaad al-Taee!
Taee is an excellent example of the kind of leadership that is needed in Irag.
By the way,he points out that his district seems to be thriving and
is peaceful and hopeful for the future…AMAZING!…Why is that!?
The worldwide mainstream media constantly spreads propaganda about the terrible failures in Irag.Taee seems to describe a different scenario…
ALSO the KURDISH region in northern Iraq is also doing great these days.
Tremendous reconstruction of infrastructure,booming economy,
Great security and safety in Kurdish region.
They are even opening AMERICAN University…
The Kurdish people thank Americans for bringing a new,hopeful future for the Kurdish region…WHY IS THAT!?
Comment by inFINNdel — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:06 pm
I assume Asaad al-Taee is presented here as a typical immigrant. Is he? Rajamäki has said that we should have a strict immigration policy in order to prevent criminals from coming here. Is that xenophobia? Would you like to let more criminals in Finland?
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:24 pm
#8 is it a secret for you that anything free is out of support, has bad gui, has bugs, lack of needed options and can’t be up to date with rapidly changing technology?
All websites running open source softwares one day are hacked due to numerious bugs.
So, if your time is money and there is no welfare state for you with free beer - you would definetely invest in commercial software, where professionals get money for their work and kick their ass to improve it.
Comment by Belino — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:30 pm
Leave it to Phil to put a maximum sinister interpretation on a choice of words. Did you ever imagine that the purpose of referring to the guy as a “Finnish citizen” rather than a “Finn” might have been to emphasise that he is, in fact, taking office in his own home town, and to avoid the suggestion that he is part of some strange Finnish colonial endeavour.
By the way, you might want to check out some of the more unusual goings-on at the handover ceremony. Hint: even Ozzy Osbourne would have been grossed out.
http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Iraq/10091228.html
Comment by Kimmo W — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:35 pm
The rabbit died for their sins….
Comment by inFINNdel — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:37 pm
It’s quite amusing to see the always moronic winter praise this guy. Al-Taee belongs to the wonderfully named Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a Shi’ite party with close ties to Iran that controls the Interior Ministry. It supports US withdrawal from Iraq and wishes to give more political power to Islamic clerics. You may have heard of the Badr Brigade; that’s these guys.
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:49 pm
“ALSO the KURDISH region in northern Iraq is also doing great these days.
Tremendous reconstruction of infrastructure,booming economy,
Great security and safety in Kurdish region.”
Sorry to rain on your misinformed parade, but the Kurds were basically autonomous from the Saddam regime (as well as peaceful)well before the US occupation.
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
I’m pretty sure he was accepted here just as well as he would have in other redneck backwater communities than Finland. Maybe not in New York, but definitely other parts of the U.S.
Yeah but this is coming from Helsingin Sanomat, not redneck backwater Finland.
Comment by Phil — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:51 pm
And this is related how…?
Well, if you’re an american and you’re using Linux you might very well be branded “unamerican” for it.
Somebody established the analogy to american hicks before me so I thought it was good to again emphasize that this kind of thinking (=”us” and “them”, the “right” kind of finns/americans) is not exclusively a finnish phenomenon, contrary to what Phil insinuated.
Too often on this blog I see people bringin up some problem like it was somehow unique and characteristical only to Finland when in fact the exact same thing can be found almost everywhere. I find it somewhat disheartening that so many seem to act so hypocritically, projecting all problems to Finland and the finns. Often there’s a total lack of perspective and Finland and finns become the scapegoat while the blame layer seems totally oblivious to the fact that the very problem (s)he’s attributing solely to Finland and to finns can be found in her/his home country as well. This “holier-than-thou” attitude bugs me. I’d like to stress though that I have nothing against well based arguments and valid critique.
To sum it up: Generalizing and portraying some universally human problem as something which is peculiarily finnish is intellectually dishonest and deserving of contempt.
Comment by Ã…boy — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:51 pm
The last I heard was that according to some americans the Linux operating system is “unamerican†because it’s based on free distribution and not on capitalism and making profit.
There was one American, and only one, who said that. Bill Gates. Linux’s biggest competitor.
Comment by Phil — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:52 pm
Rajamäki has said that we should have a strict immigration policy in order to prevent criminals from coming here. Is that xenophobia?
How many refugees were rejected this year? The majority of them? So I guess the majority of refugees coming here are criminals and terrorists. :rolleyes:
Comment by Phil — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:54 pm
“Well, if you’re an american and you’re using Linux you might very well be branded “unamerican†for it.”
Sure. I hear that all the time (this is sarcasm).
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 4:57 pm
Too often on this blog I see people bringin up some problem like it was somehow unique and characteristical only to Finland when in fact the exact same thing can be found almost everywhere.
Then you’re misunderstanding this blog. Just because we write about a problem in Finland, rarely if ever does it mean that it’s exclusive to Finland. I guess if this was a Euro blog and I kept mentioning Finland, you’d have a point, but this blog is about Finland. Hesari’s daily “Kotimaa” section always writes about problems with Finland, I guess they suffer from the same disease as this blog.
And just because the problem occurs in other countries doesn’t mean it’s not a problem, and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t discuss it. “Racism is a problem EVERYWHERE, so fuck it.”
Comment by Phil — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 5:04 pm
13 said; #8 is it a secret for you that anything free is out of support, has bad gui, has bugs, lack of needed options and can’t be up to date with rapidly changing technology?
All websites running open source softwares one day are hacked due to numerious bugs.
So, if your time is money and there is no welfare state for you with free beer - you would definetely invest in commercial software, where professionals get money for their work and kick their ass to improve it.
It isn’t like commercial programs would always be bugfree. Windows XP’s updates and bugfixes total more than the operating system itself, in megabytes. Good luck surfing the Internet on Windows without getting any virii!
The best part about open source software is that there are hundreds of people looking for the sourcecode. The code is build like a pyramid; from ground up, making sure everything fits together.
Windows might have one unit coding one part and other unit doing other part, and then the parts are ducktaped together. Sure, there are more features, but this “ducttaping” results in unforeseen problems.
When problems arise, open source fixes it fast - sometimes before its even exploited (see Firefox) while commercial company would want to hide the fixes before they were exploited (see IE and some fixes taking months to arrive in the past).
Also, Open Source is written by people who ARE professional coders, or have the requiments to be if they would want to. Or do you really think Firefox was written by teenagers?
Comment by iJusten — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 5:05 pm
I have mixed feelings about open source. For example, I like my Linux because it has built-in software RAID capability. It’s important because one of my machines has 4-disk that I use exclusively for operating system and applications. It runs very fast without needing the motherboard’s RAID controllers!
Microsoft doesn’t include RAID in its desktop versions. You have to buy the much more expensive Server version. Everything about it costs more, including 3rd party anti-virus programs, etc., because it’s assumed that you are a high-budget corporation, rather than an individual user. Plus, if you change hardware, then you might have to call Microsoft to re-validate your license.
It’s kind of a hassle, and I absolutely hate that type of business posture. On the other hand, I find that XP runs more stable than Linux, at least for my purposes. Also, generally, I find it easier to get professionally written manuals for commercial products. Open source is often a patchwork of partly-documented prototypes and examples. I guess commercial and open source both have their respective tradeoffs.
Insofar as being unamerican….. SuSE Linux is now owned by us company Novell. Seems like once again, the capital-rich Americans swallowed-up an industry leader. But, since it’s open source, I guess they still let us Europeans tinker with it in our spare time
—-
By the way, I like FireFox’ easy text magnification. Just hit ctrl++. Easy on the eyes
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 6:06 pm
#18 What do you expect from a guy who refuses to recognise that Bush’s policy in Iraq has primarily benefitted the regional interests of Iran?
As for the past couple of posts, I think that some of you guys are getting way off-topic.
Comment by Kimmo W — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 7:02 pm
#28 Obviously Finns are racists, so nothing left to talk about except Linux
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 7:07 pm
And just because the problem occurs in other countries doesn’t mean it’s not a problem, and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t discuss it.
Of course not, I agree with you totally on this one. Often on this blog of yours it just seems to be the case that the problems are indeed portrayed as exclusively finnish, even though they’re not.
Comment by Ã…boy — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 7:14 pm
Kristian, Mac OS X Tiger also does the RAID thing in the disk utility. Just FYI and also a bit becasue I do not want to talk about immigrants and xenophobia
Comment by majava — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 7:28 pm
majava—I have to plead ignorance about Mac OS. Unfortunately I can’t use it. But it figures that such a nice feature would be included, whereas M$ just continually unleashes its cheesy business practices on the public instead. It’s so Un-Christmas-like!
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 7:40 pm
“When are you guys gonna come up with something original?”
when the Dem’s come up with their plan for Iraq? Oh wait, its cut and run. Sorry, my bad.
Comment by winter — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 7:43 pm
#33 You’re amazing!
It’s Bush that made such a total catastrophuck out of Iraq, that there aren’t any good options any more. Stay the course, cut and run, or anything else.
If I break something so thoroughly that nobody can fix it, it’s my fault - not the repairman’s.
Comment by Kimmo W — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 8:47 pm
The guy only spent about 10 years of his adult life here, then went back to work in his real home in Iraq. Doesn’t seem really Finnish to me. Nothing to do with racism in my opinion.
I’d agree about the racism if someone for example said actor/tv-host Jani Toivola isn’t Finnish. He’s a regular Finnish guy, who just happens to be black. I’m not sure if he was actually born here, though, but there’s no accent in his speech or anything.
Comment by Fägäri — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 9:12 pm
Being a Finn is a question of ethnicity. It has nothing whatsoever to do with race. You don’t need to be born a Finn, you _grow up to be a Finn_. It is not possible for a non-Finn to “become” a Finn. Race has nothing _at all_ to do with it: for example, Lola Odusoga will be perfectly accepted as a Finn even by the vast majority of racists who wouldn’t want black people in Finland, since she grew up Finnish (which, of course, will be a lot easier to do with one Finnish parent). You will never become a Finn and your attempt to claim to be one would be ridiculous and potentially extremely offensive. This is as impossible to you as it is for anyone from Iraq.
Conversely, there are people of fully Finnish ancestry in the world who would _never_ be accepted as Finns in Finland, no matter what they look like, if they haven’t learned any Finnishness. We have had this experience recently with russified “Finnish” immigrants: if you’ve switched from Finnish to Russian, your claim of being Finnish is not accepted by pretty much anyone, even if you look exactly like an average Finn. America has lots of non-Finns with fully “Finnish” genes claiming to be “Finns”, too, and they’re not actually Finns either.
This is not “bigoted”, this is how it works. This is not America where the only thing that ever matters is race. For the most part, Finns never give a fuck about race, the main thing they care about is how the foreigners seem to act and you, Phil, fall there somewhere near the Muslim fanatics insisting that Western women are immoral sluts because they aren’t veiled but still insist on living in the West and lecturing their “superior moral values” to us. Your entire worldview seems to sum up to “countries that don’t work exactly like America does are barbarian, racist and immoral” and most of your posts are made up of some observation that Finland is not exactly like America, hence, it’s a barbarian racist place. The answer is just as simple as it is for those religious fanatics: if it’s so bad, fuck off back to wherever you came from, because this is the way it works here, it’s the way it’s going to be and, really, I just like to consider ourselves morally superior because of it, so I get a great chance to tell bad foreigners to fuck off.
If an African moves to the US and has children with a white person, neither the African or the children will ever be accepted as “whites”, the “true” Americans; they’ll be grouped with the “black” caste and will be always presumed to belong to the group lower in status in the US regardless of how well they do. *Every* white American would consider it nutty if some black person tried to claim “white” “ethnicity”; American families are permanently stuck in one “ethnicity” or none (being “mixed”) no matter what they do, because the Americans equate race and ethnicity. In Finland, *some minority* of racists will be troubled by black people, but well-assimilated people of any appearance can claim Finnish ethnicity and the majority will happily accept it - this is pretty far from the laughter you’d get in the US from *everyone* if you tried to claim an ethnicity that wouldn’t match your appearance.
And you’re around fantasizing about Finnish society having problems with race. Nope. No. It’s culture. Appearance is completely unimportant for calling yourself a “Finn” (as anything except a sign of probably being/not being one).
Comment by jaakkeli — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 9:14 pm
“when the Dem’s come up with their plan for Iraq? Oh wait, its cut and run. Sorry, my bad.”
Probably originating in modern African-American Vernacular English, the use of the term “my bad” to mean “my fault” or “my mistake” has become widespread as a colloquialism in several English speaking countries. (otherwise known as a cliché)
“Dems,” is a term right wing talk radio hosts bastardized from the UK Liberal-Democrat party. Hate radio hosts also frequently use the term “Libs,” (otherwise known as a cliché).
The term “cut and run” originates in nautical usage. The OED quotes Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship (1794) which defines the phrase to mean “to cut the cable and make sail instantly, without waiting to weigh anchor.” Here cable refers to the anchor line, hence the anchor is lost. Run is used in the sense of to sail downwind. Right wingers use the term in attempt to demasculinize any opposition to their blood-thirsty warmongering by accusing people (in this case “Dems”) who want an end to the massacre in Iraq of “cut(ting) and run(ning).”(The term is known as a cliché).
Very original post, winter. Very original.
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 9:25 pm
Source for #37 was http://en.wikipedia.org/ .
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 9:26 pm
“How many refugees were rejected this year? The majority of them?”
I don’t know. How many?
Comment by Anonymous — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 9:43 pm
Kari Rajamäki (sd) is not ‘refugees minister’, he is our “Secretary of Homeland Security”.
Comment by bu jormanen — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 9:58 pm
Kari Rajamäki (sd) is not ‘refugees minister’, he is our “Secretary of Homeland Securityâ€Â.
Well spotted, but Phil’s error was grammatical; he wasn’t calling him the refugee’s minister, but “Minister Rajamäki.” The “refugee” in question was Mr. al-Taee.”
Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 10:07 pm
“who want an end to the massacre in Iraq”
or like the Europeans, who watched 9,000 Muslims frog march off to a machine gum, the USA does not follow your lead here.
Thus we do not “cut and run”. Or like the EU waive a French flag of surrender, or like the Finnish army, become “Human shields” for Iran, so Hezbollah can take over Lebanon for them.
Back to the thread, this Finish guy, who cut and ran from Finland to do good, is a start for you-all. Now that you have, one leader, who put one step forward, there is Darfur, and a million dying there now.
Get out of Lebanon, before you screw that one up to.
Comment by winter — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 11:48 pm
If an African moves to the US and has children with a white person, neither the African or the children will ever be accepted as “whitesâ€Â, the “true†Americans
No way, being American does not mean white.
*Every* white American would consider it nutty if some black person tried to claim “white†“ethnicityâ€Â; American families are permanently stuck in one “ethnicity†or none (being “mixedâ€Â) no matter what they do, because the Americans equate race and ethnicity.
I’m not sure we all have the same definition of “ethnic” and “ethnicity”…
How do we know Taee didn’t adapt to Finnish culture?
In Finland, *some minority* of racists will be troubled by black people, but well-assimilated people of any appearance can claim Finnish ethnicity and the majority will happily accept it - this is pretty far from the laughter you’d get in the US from *everyone* if you tried to claim an ethnicity that wouldn’t match your appearance.
Uhhhh….so blacks who grew up in Finland will be accepted as Finns by all. But blacks who grew up in US will never be American??
Comment by Phil — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 11:51 pm
Kimmo
And “I break something so thoroughly that nobody can fix it, it’s my fault - not the repairman’s.
who do you blame for the Palestinian Civil war?
At some time in history the locals have to take responsability for their actions. The USA can only provide frameworks. At least we don’t take the first bribe offered, and become “Human Shields”, or sit by doing nothing.
Comment by winter — Fri, Dec 22nd, 2006 @ 11:54 pm
infinndel still insists that he is Finnish,because of 100 pure Finn DNA.Here in America if I proclaim to be a Finn because of that ,and much other Finnish baggage that I drag around,I am regarded as a Finn by other Americans….Time for some Olut 4b…KIPPIS!
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 12:16 am
But blacks who grew up in US will never be American??
I’m sure growing-up in America has nothing to do with it. If blacks keep using silly lingo, like “my bad”, then they’ll never be considered real Americans.
So says mighty whitey
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 1:12 am
infinndel has noticed that in America,almost every ethnic group gets insulted by stupid racist/ethnic jokes….Poles,Italians,Puerto Ricans Jews,blacks,and just about everyone else is a target of “racist/bigoted” sick humor attacks,but I can not remember any sick jokes made about Finns here.Only disparaging remarks about Finns in America is that they drink to much booze….
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 2:01 am
inFINNdel: “Only disparaging remarks about Finns in America is that they drink to much booze…”
Oooh! My bad!
Comment by RAVE THE DAVE — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 2:16 am
“remember any sick jokes made about Finns…”
Ever heard the one about the Finn who got his pecker caught in the drain hole in the floor of the sauna?
Comment by RAVE THE DAVE — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 2:19 am
“sick humor attacks…”
See above from 48.
Comment by RAVE THE DAVE — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 2:20 am
#49…SNAP!….OOUUUCH!…that Hurts!!
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 2:26 am
A beer and sausage moment
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 2:32 am
Please feel free to add to infinndel’s list of sick Finn jokes,so I can insult my Finnish friends and relatives here in Massachusettts
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 3:19 am
Belino wrote:
#8 is it a secret for you that anything free is out of support, has bad gui, has bugs, lack of needed options and can’t be up to date with rapidly changing technology?
Keeping up with rapidly changing technology can be hard even for big corporations. Microsoft was still selling its laughable excuse for an operating system called Windows 95 (later Windows 98) in the late 90s. This operating system was really just a partly-32-bit GUI running on top of 16-bit MS-DOS with no real memory protection (meaning that a single misbehaving application can crash the whole system), eventhough Intel had introduced its new 32-bit memory protection supporting 80386 processor back in 1986. That being said, Windows NT and Windows XP are very decent operating systems.
For a nice GUI check out for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJkdkcbEXMo&NR . Being opensource and/or free doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to look like crap.
I’d love to see virtual desktops on Windows too, they’re really usable although the 3D cube featured in the video is just eye candy.
All websites running open source softwares one day are hacked due to numerious bugs.
Do you have anything to back this up? Do you think closed source software doesn’t have bugs?
According to Netcraft, 60% of web sites are running the free open source Apache http server. Guess we’re doomed.
So, if your time is money and there is no welfare state for you with free beer - you would definetely invest in commercial software, where professionals get money for their work and kick their ass to improve it.
Both the free software movement and open source movement are American things, believe it or not. Linus Torvalds isn’t the creator of either.
Comment by mh — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 4:01 am
winter wrote: Thus we do not “cut and run”.
Vietnam says hi, then chuckles a little at the memory of the fall of Saigon.
or like the Finnish army, become “Human shields” for Iran
Instead, you - and by “you” I mean the US government, not you, you piddling armchair warrior - agreed that others should become ‘”Human shields” for Iran’.
It’s mighty odd how you never discuss what it means that the US supports the presence of UN peace-keepers in Lebanon. You also ignore the fact that this US-backed solution wouldn’t have been possible had Israel actually wanted to keep killing non-shielded humans. How come you never respond to any of this instead of repeating the same mindless cliches for the umpteenth time?
this Finish guy, who cut and ran from Finland to do good
Why, winter, I didn’t know you were such a fan of the agenda of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq. Was it their pro-Islamic theocracy stance or their support for complete US withdrawal from Iraq that earned them your admiration? Or maybe it was their warm relationship with Iran?
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 10:29 am
“infinndel still insists that he is Finnish,because of 100 pure Finn DNA.Here in America if I proclaim to be a Finn because of that ,and much other Finnish baggage that I drag around,I am regarded as a Finn by other Americans….Time for some Olut 4b…KIPPIS!”
Yes I find it curious that Americans make such a ruckus about their origins. You’re all primarily Americans now, the genes don’t matter.
Comment by m — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 11:09 am
“…interesting how Helsingin Sanomat never calls him “Finnish†or “a Finn†but rather, “Finnish citizenâ€Â, even though he has citizenship and speaks Finnish. I guess only white people will ever be able to be “Finnishâ€Â.”
… or they might call him that because it’s unusual for an Iraqi to be a Finnish citizen; hence they point it out. But what do I know, I don’t generally go around inventing motives for everything people say or don’t say. Do you spend all your time dicking around with nuances like this?
Comment by saempy — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 12:33 pm
Well, a nation of immigrants we ain’t - so, in that sense it surely is a higher threashold to become a “Finn” than an American. I don’t know about this particular case, it might be that he himself does not wish to be identified as a Finn, but in general our nationalism has traditionally been quite narrow ethnically. (Though the USA surely is a special case, and gets way too little credit for its ethnically open society here in Europe. And yes, before the shouting match starts, it’s not perfect and there are exceptions.) Of course, in the coming decades the immigration will steadily pick up here too and maybe being such a latecomer might actually be beneficial for us: perhaps we could avoid some of the mistakes other European countries have made in the same situation.
Comment by mjr — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 2:02 pm
Belino:
“All websites running open source softwares one day are hacked due to numerious bugs.”
Yeah. We’ll be much better off if websites would use the SW provided by Microsoft. A company well-known for it’s safe, non-buggy SW. Provider
of the patently unhackable OS Windows.
Get a fucking clue.
Comment by Thomas — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 2:44 pm
No way, being American does not mean white.
You’re twisting my words - what a surprise. Try, for example, something even as elementary as an American movie some day. It’s either all white with some token blacks… or all black with some token whites. Why so, if race doesn’t put you in one “community”? Despite all the attempts to integrate, there are still two Americas and your colour decides which one you belong into, no matter how you feel. A half-white half-black person will always be “black”, even if they’re equally black and white in genes and even if their black ancestor is a recent immigrant from Africa who shares no more history or culture with those African-Americans who’ve been there since slavery than he/she shares with white Americans. (That of course works partly in the other way, too - a pale guy can’t become black, either.)
Membership of an ethnicity outside bizarre American language generally has no racial requirements: if you’re half-Finnish and, say, half-Kurdish in every way because you’ve grown up in a mixed family, you can end up joining either ethnicity - or you might even end up one of those cases who can move between two identities, depending on where you’re living and which identity feels more familiar to you (there are lots of people in Finland doing this with Finnishness/Swedishness). Doesn’t necessarily mean being Finnish in Finland and Kurdish in Kurdistan - might go the other way around, too. Race is irrelevant.
How do we know Taee didn’t adapt to Finnish culture?
Adults cannot do that. How many immigrants do you see around fulfilling even basic requirements like speaking Finnish like a native? Well, sure, I could imagine a hypothetical case where someone has grown up in a very similar place - say, in Estonia - that a jump to Finnishness is small enough that even an adult could do it and get accepted, but he’s from _Iraq_. Again, that’s not racial at all - there are lots of northern European looking people in America, even perfectly Finnish looking ones who believe that they’re still “Finns”, who couldn’t do the jump either and would not be accepted as Finns.
Of course, it’s going to be very hard for anyone who isn’t from at least a part-Finnish family to claim being a Finn, but this isn’t a _racial_ requirement, as someone adopted from a distant country can still easily make the claim.
And again, I have no problem whatsoever with non-Finns living in Finland, non-Finns being citizens of Finland or even the word “Finn” being used as a sloppy shorthand for “Finnish citizen”. What I have a problem with are imbecilic Americans who can’t understand that the word “Finn” has a meaning beyond “Finnish citizen” and who actually go around lecturing us that not calling non-Finnish citizens of Finland Finns when they’re clearly not Finns is somehow wrong. It’s exactly as imbecilic as moving to America and then calling everyone racist if they refuse to consider Martin Luther King white. You’ve got all the rules confused in your head.
“American” might not have a meaning besides “American citizen”, but “Finnish” does. American immigrants who cannot understand this are not welcome (and will _never_ be accepted as Finns).
Comment by jaakkeli — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 3:25 pm
“We’ll be much better off if websites would use the SW provided by Microsoft. A company well-known for it’s safe, non-buggy SW. Provider
of the patently unhackable OS Windows.”
And home of the billionaire Gates no less, so get a clue. We do, and its all the way to the bank with your money.
Comment by winter — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 4:02 pm
#44 “who do you blame for the Palestinian Civil war?”
Nice try. I don’t blame you for trying to change the subject after backing yourself into a corner by trying to defend Bush’s indefensible Iraq war.
“At some time in history the locals have to take responsability for their actions. The USA can only provide frameworks.”
By this logic, if I go into a china shop swinging a sledge hammer around, smashing everything in sight, I’m “providing a framework”, and am justified in insisting that the owners take responsibility.
“At least we don’t take the first bribe offered”
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/home.html
http://iraqforsale.org/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3799635.stm
http://www.dawn.com/2004/01/24/int18.htm
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 4:37 pm
“Bush’s indefensible Iraq war.”
Huh. The guy defied UN sactions for how many years. Killed how many into mass graves - 600,000 found so far. Gassed how many? Or do you just raise your French White flag of surrender….AT All opportunities.
No, it took some years to figure out why the Europeans were againist the war. The oil-for-food deal sure tells the world why.
So just what is your bar, for getting rid of these killers? Wait, I forget, you don’t have one. They can kill in Darfur all they want, you will not help.
Comment by winter — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 5:19 pm
I think that the former colonial powers have a *relatively* easier job of accepting outsiders into their societies. Therefore, it’s easier to be Dutch AND Surinamese, or French AND Vietnamese, or Portuguese (in Brazil) AND Japanese, or, of course, British AND Jamaican.
The Finns never had a colony of which to speak (and Minnesota doesn’t count). So it’s harder for people to be Finnish AND Iraqi.
Comment by giustino — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 5:32 pm
#63 Sure Saddam was a bad guy. The United States has never had any problem with bad guys as such - including Rumsfeld’s old buddy Saddam - with whom things were hunky-dory at the time that most of those mass graves were produced.
Interesting body count, that 600,000 by the way. It’s about the number of estimated deaths in Iraq since the US invasion. I know, the figure was disputed by a Bush apologist in the Wall Street Journal. Big surprise!
And meanwhile, the US Iraq fiasco keeps boosting Iran’s position in the Persian Gulf region, and Bush keeps throwing good blood after bad while desperately trying to save face. Just like Nixon’s “peace with honor” thing in Vietnam. The Americans ended up high-tailing from that one so fast they didn’t even have time to wave any white flags - French or otherwise.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 5:35 pm
winter, why are you so anti-fact? It is surely still possible to be an American conservative and still respect rational empirical observations. Time was when that was quite the trademark of conservatism. Now, I suppose Burke would be called a “commie”… Not that I would expect you to have any familiarity with anything outside Fox “news”, certainly not Burke. Well, sorry about this post too, winter, I see so many over two syllable words here, that it probably is bit meaningless for you.
Comment by mjr — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 5:38 pm
A half-white half-black person will always be “blackâ€Â, even if they’re equally black and white in genes and even if their black ancestor is a recent immigrant from Africa who shares no more history or culture with those African-Americans who’ve been there since slavery than he/she shares with white Americans.
Hmm, are we referencing future president Barack Obama? I agree, it’s total bullshit. Obama is as European as he is African. He may not look like his mother, but he doesn’t look like your average Kenyan either. He’s both.
The same thing happened with Tiger Woods. The guy is of Chinese, Thai, Dutch, Native American, AND African descent. But Oprah would hear none of it.
This racial controversy just underscores how the new diverse generations of Americans (mine and the one younger, let’s say Gen X and Y) find old labels and categories very difficult to abide by.
Comment by giustino — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 5:40 pm
giustino wrote: The Finns never had a colony of which to speak (and Minnesota doesn’t count).
I nominate Michigan’s Upper Peninsula.
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 5:52 pm
Having Finnish DNA, Finnish citizenship, Finnish looks..(blonde hair, blue eyes, and no pigment whatsoever), doesn’t necessarily make me Finnish to Finns, (except my Finnish family). Whenever I am in Finland, I speak with ever so slight an accent that Finns ultimately think I’m Estonian. And, I must add, I get treated differently when people think I’m Estonian vs. Finnish/American…(thy prefer Finnish American).
Comment by Nipsu — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 5:54 pm
#67 In fact, I recently read a column in the LA Times in which the writer commented on a piece in another newspaper suggesting that Barack Obama is not “authenticaly black”, because he lacks the ethnic heritage of the descendants of the slaves.
Interesting notion: there is actually a school of thought that states that Obama is not really African-American because his father actually came from Africa!
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-rodriguez17dec17,0,6797537.column?coll=la-opinion-columnists
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 5:56 pm
Interesting notion: there is actually a school of thought that states that Obama is not really African-American because his father actually came from Africa!
Well there is an organic “Afro-American” culture that is distinguishable from “Afro-Caribbean” for example. I think that is what they are referring too. Obama’s ancestors were (most likely) never in bondage in the US. I am sure that means something for the Afro-American community. I often wonder how they feel about “new” Africans in the US - those that have immigrated in recent decades from Nigeria and Ghana and places like that. Their distant cousins.
Comment by giustino — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 7:08 pm
“I often wonder how they feel about “new†Africans in the US - those that have immigrated in recent decades from Nigeria and Ghana and places like that.”
Niggas, maybe. But, not true homeboys. Just my guess of course.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 7:24 pm
A Boer moves to America.
Is he African-American?
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 7:26 pm
#73 I once actually put that question to an African-born white author who is now a naturalised US citizen: does she refer to herself as an African-American. The answer that I got was something of a laugh.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 7:49 pm
Phil, Finnish is an ethnicity. This man is not an ethnic Finn.
Comment by Krisu — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 8:49 pm
infinndel still proclaims ethnic Finn profile!
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 8:59 pm
Nothing steams infinndel in Massachusetts more then being mistakingly called a Swede!
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 9:03 pm
“meanwhile, the US Iraq fiasco keeps boosting Iran’s position in the Persian Gulf region”
Not as much as the Finnish Army, in their current “Human Shield” for Iran is doing.
I think in 50 years we will all look back and say, the Finn’s sure screwed up the world with that one. Actually we may only have to wait 1 year to realize what an incredibly stupid move the Finn’s have done.
Comment by winter — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 9:10 pm
Winter is “why are you so anti-fact?”
Come on you all still think the family killed on the beach of Gaza, was not a Hezbollah land mine. It was guys, or do you still just listen to the BBC.
Comment by winter — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 9:15 pm
#78 “Actually we may only have to wait 1 year to realize what an incredibly stupid move the Finn’s have done.”
We don’t even have to wait that long to recognise the utter stupidity of the US fiasco in Iraq, which has already been plain to see for some time already, and which has helped promote Iranian interests in the Middle East more than a rather modest border deployment in Lebanon ever could.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 9:29 pm
#79 “or do you still just listen to the BBC”
The BBC is the public service broadcaster of the country whose support Bush constantly invokes as an indication that the Iraq quagmire has been worth it.
So what’s your point?
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 9:36 pm
“American immigrants who cannot understand this are not welcome”
And who are you to decide?
Comment by m — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 9:52 pm
infinndel:”Do not even THINK of getting me going about possible RRRUUUSHIAN influence in my genetic background!”….NIETT!
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 10:15 pm
“BBC is the public service broadcaster ” that even admits its coverage is biased. They said so, and its coverage follows that line.
Comment by winter — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 10:54 pm
“utter stupidity of the US fiasco in Iraq”
right, 11 Million Purple fingers are really stupid.
At least we did not going in knowing we will be directly supporting Irans goals. You did that deployment knowing exactly who you were helping.
Comment by winter — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 10:56 pm
“And, I must add, I get treated differently when people think I’m Estonian vs. Finnish/American…(they prefer Finnish American). ”
WHY?? I have heard Finns “Diss” Estonians before. Are Estonians considered a lower class of Europeans by some Finns??. Don’t the 2 country’s share similair bonds and Languange.. ala USA and UK?? Seriously ,Having never been there We will visit Estonia next summer, as a diversion from our yearly Finnish vacation. My wife is Finnish and really does not want to talk about it(Hates to admit Finns can be Bigots) other than saying SOME Finns Really do feel Superior to Estonians. WHY??? Your comment is very interesting.
Comment by Rick — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 11:00 pm
THAT’S IT Finnfolks!…infinndel is opening a branch of SUOMEN SISU in Massachusetts!…
TRUE FINNS UNITE in U.S.A!… 
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 11:01 pm
#84 You really need to back up that claim of BBC bias; forgive me if your say-so isn’t quite enough for me.
# 85 “right, 11 Million Purple fingers are really stupid.”
Right. Back in the days of the old Soviet Union, they boasted voter turnouts of 99.XX% in all of their elections. I wasn’t impressed then either.
“At least we did not going in knowing we will be directly supporting Irans goals.”
So it’s the stupidity/ignorance defence!
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 11:10 pm
#86 rick ..infinndel highly recommends pigging out on Karelian Pasties with egg butter for breakfast at the SOKOS VIRU hotel in Tallinn Estonia……..SUBLIME!
Comment by inFINNdel — Sat, Dec 23rd, 2006 @ 11:23 pm
..at the SOKOS VIRU hotel..
Why not. Afterall, the finns built it.
Comment by Ã…boy — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 12:10 am
“Are Estonians considered a lower class of Europeans by some Finns??”
Unfortunately there are some idiots, whose granma’s and parents failed to kick some elementary manners into their asses. Probably the same brand of people, who called Carelian evacuees ryssäs and refused to give a mother with newborn child even a sip of water. I’m 50% Carelian, 25% Estonian and 100% Finn, so there are these evacuee stories running in the family. Finns can be real mulquists also among themselves.
Yet Estonia and Finland are thoroughly connected by history. There were our guys participating in their war of independence and their guys here in WWII. And the Estonians saved our mouths from drying during the 20’s flowerhatted craze named the prohibition.
I don’t know, whether this attitude has to do something with the collapse of Soviet Union during the 90’s, when tabloids connected everything coming from the previous eastern block with the russian mafia.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 12:17 am
And whenever one visits the SOKOS VIRU hotel,ask to be shown to the RRRUUUSSHIAN KGB espionage, intelligence gathering,international intrigue,microwave and shortwave radio monitoring,Cuban cigar smokeing mythical,commie agents,secret floor that never existed..HAHAHAHAA!
Comment by inFINNdel — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 12:24 am
Rick: “SOME Finns Really do feel Superior to Estnians. WHY??? Your comment is very interesting.”
It’s really very simple. People denigrate eastern Europeans because of unfortunate circumstances Communism bestowed upon them. Today, many eastern Europeans seek jobs in the west because they can’t get them in their native countries. But, in about 10 years, we in western Europe will be studying their successes.
The new generation in eastern Europe now has the opportunity to start fresh and mold its future. So, what seems like a disadvantage today, will be an advantage tomorrow. And maybe we’ll even go there for jobs and better lives……and hopefully they won’t remember the nasty things we said about them.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 12:27 am
Another thing…… Societies like Estonia, have a high percentage of ‘blue collar’ working class people. It’s just due to the Communist proletarianization. That type of society looks very different than one with a richer mixture of professions.
Finland has more of that mix, and it shows for now. However, as individuals we’re not all that wealthy here. In fact, we’ve got the lowest net-worth-per-capita of western Europe—and, correspondingly, the highest taxation. Some of the Estonian that come to work here, own their homes in Estonia outright. No mortgage.
I know one Estonian who owns two flats that he rents out, and he owns his house. He’s a carpenter, so he’s done lots of renovation work on those properties over the past 10-years or so. His net worth at retirement will probably be much higher than most Finns’.
So I guess looks can be deceiving; there’s a good possibility that the Estonian in the worker clothing might actually be better-off financially than the Finn with suit-and-tie.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 12:53 am
Rick, sorry if I gave you more of a socio-economic illustration. But, I think that’s the main difference—or at least the perceived difference—between people of the two-countries. Or people between the two-halves of Europe for that matter.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 1:28 am
Winter: “Come on you all still think the family killed on the beach of Gaza, was not a Hezbollah land mine.”
Winter, if you want to play with the adults you could try not to make elementary mistakes like your’s above. If you are going to parrot the standard rightwing talking points, at least try and be an accurate parrot. Then you might appear that you have some vague concept of what you are going on about rather than talking out of your arse like normal.
Comment by Toby — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 2:26 am
Toby
So you do think they were killed by Israel? Gad I hope you say yes.
Comment by winter — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 5:05 am
winter, your “point” escapes me: remember I’m the Euro-Commie that actually thought in the summer that Israel had perfect right to attack hostile forces in Lebanon - I only thought that this strategy was counterproductive and ineffective, which it was. Now the USA can scupper any UN action it disapproves, so those Finnish “human shields” (that are so ripe for Finnpunditian eradication) have complete US sanction and approval.
Comment by mjr — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 11:52 am
Phil - WRT #4 …that’s a large reason why I wanted to return to the US….So many of the mixed couples who have kids give them Finnish names to help them in fit in, not be singled out as a product of foreign relations and improve employment prospects in the future. It’s hard enough being a kid, why add kids and adults giving you a hard time for simply being born of one non-Finnish parent with a funny name?
We just moved into a house yesterday and I kept thinking about the neighbours in Finland who treated me like I was a crack dealer when the neighbours on both sides of the house came by and welcomed us with chocolates, flowers and the most adorable ‘welcome to your new home’ drawing done by one of their 3 year old children. It’s such a culture shock to come back to whoville. I nearly started to cry….I do miss being in Helsinki, but it’s nice being home where people welcome my husband as much as they do me and the baby.
Comment by hfb — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 3:19 pm
“winter, your “point†escapes me: ”
1) You Finns are the one claiming the Gaza Beach deaths were the fault of Israel. When in fact, it was their own Palestinian land mine they planted.
So I am not so sure what is escaping you.
2) As for the Finnish Human shield deployment. The USA in order to be happy with the EU, (For some stupid reason we think we need to make you all happy) lets you do this completely stupid thing. My objection is the same as your objection to the Iraq war (Except your was also a paid for, food-for-oil view). In both cases we both have UN sanctions/approval to go forth. The big difference is, the USA went in to change the situation by getting rid of a dictator. In your case you are going in to support a bunch of thugs.
The difference should be clear now.
Comment by winter — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 4:06 pm
hbf: “…I kept thinking about the neighbours in Finland who treated me like I was a crack dealer…”
You mean they kept stopping-by looking for crack?!!!
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 4:30 pm
“….it’s nice being home where people welcome my husband as much as they do me and the baby.”
That’s because America needs all the white people it can get.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 4:49 pm
“We just moved into a house yesterday and I kept thinking about the neighbours in Finland who treated me like I was a crack dealer when the neighbours on both sides of the house came by and welcomed us with chocolates, flowers and the most adorable ‘welcome to your new home’ drawing done by one of their 3 year old children.”
Neighbours in Finland never ever give gifts even it’s a white person who moves next to them.
Comment by Anonymous — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 8:06 pm
Well, back in my childhood in rural North-Carelia, it was more or less customary to pop in to see the new neighbours with a pack of coffee. Locals are known for curiosity and are dying to know, what kind of anti-christ moved to their next door.
Being out for such a long time, I would feel rather uneasy, if the neighbours paid any attention to my appearance into area, unless there is mutual fence, road or something that needs to be taken care of together.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Sun, Dec 24th, 2006 @ 9:03 pm
I think Antti is right. People outside of the Helsinki/Espoo area are much more neighborly. In fact, those in other parts of Finland, generally dislike people from the city region. And I think they’d treat a non-Finn more like a novelty, rather than like a crack dealer.
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Mon, Dec 25th, 2006 @ 12:31 am
I have lived in Sweden for 2 years, however I am Finnish. However, should (in the unlikely event) I stay in Sweden for another 50 years I would not expect to be called a Swede nor would I wish to be. I am not. I speak fluent Swedish already (it’s my mother tongue), but simply living somewhere and knowing the language fluently, and even becoming a citizen, does not make one Swedish, or whatever-ish. I will always be Finnish.
I think that Ã…boy and others have it right. The USA (and perhaps also other new world countries, e.g. Canada, Australia, Argentina etc) are different, they are almost completely made up of immigrants, so perhaps there is a different view of these things.
Comment by Anonymous — Mon, Dec 25th, 2006 @ 1:31 am
Winter, you’re a tit because you clearly don’t know the difference between Hamas or Hezbollah, Sunni and Shi’a, or know where Gaza is in relation to Lebanon. You also don’t seem to be aware that the Australian Wheat Board was about the biggest benefactor of the Oil for Food scandal, yet Australians are fighting hard in Afghanistan and have troops in Iraq. You are a vaguely amusing tit though, so please keep it up.
Comment by Toby — Mon, Dec 25th, 2006 @ 2:15 am
Toby
The Australians did a good job not going with Sadam. The Finn’s on the other hand, had a government, willing to say what Sadam wanted.
And you did. On cue, and as the willing partner of Sadam.
Now you continue, with your willingness, to give cover to Iran, of all places.
You guys just never quit amaizing me, with your stupidy.
Comment by winter — Mon, Dec 25th, 2006 @ 5:09 am
The USA has clear evidence of Iran’s involvement in killing American servicemen in Iraq. We have the captured munitions. We can display aerial photos of the training camps. No doubt there is much more evidence that can be presented or described. Iran’s supplying of weapons in order to kill Americans is an act of war.
The extra troups are going to jump off positions in Iraq, the extra Navy Carrier is on its way.
Now that we know Finland has been bought by Iran. What will you be saying in the near future.
Can we figure that out now, or just wait for your Government to come to the rescue of Iran?
Again.
Comment by winter — Mon, Dec 25th, 2006 @ 5:37 am
#108 “The Finn’s (sic) on the other hand, had a government willing to say what Sadam (sic) wanted. and you did. on cue, and as the willing partner of Sadam.”
Oh, come on! You really have to explain how Finland did Saddam’s bidding. And if Finland gave Saddam such invaluable help, why was he overthrown?
#109 “Iran’s supplying of weapns in order to kill Americans is an act of war.”
So what do you call invading Iraq? Oh, yeah - it was a “cake walk”.
“The extra troups (sic) are going to jump off positions in Iraq, the extra Navy Carrier is on its way.”
Right. Escalation was SOOO successful in that funny place called Vietnam!
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Dec 25th, 2006 @ 7:09 am
So what do you call invading Iraq?
Ever hear of the Axis of Evil? 1 down, 2 to go.
Comment by winter — Mon, Dec 25th, 2006 @ 3:35 pm
Has the BBC even figured this out, or are they feeding you the normal Vietnam line: “The American military is holding at least four Iranians in Iraq, including men the Bush administration called senior military officials, who were seized in a pair of raids late last week aimed at people suspected of conducting attacks on Iraqi security forces, according to senior Iraqi and American officials in Baghdad and Washington.
”
Did you even know an extra Carrier task force was on its way? What is your media (Hick BBC) telling you? Nothing again?
Comment by winter — Mon, Dec 25th, 2006 @ 3:40 pm
“Societies like Estonia, have a high percentage of ‘blue collar’ working class people. It’s just due to the Communist proletarianization. ”
Hmmm I wonder if they are “Friendlier” to Americans than in other parts of Europe??
sounds like it is going to be an interesting trip. I look forward to it. (June)
“highly recommends pigging out on Karelian Pasties with egg butter for breakfast at the SOKOS VIRU hotel in Tallinn Estonia……..SUBLIME!”
Yum… I have a Premier card with SOKOS and I love their breakfasts.
Most Finnish or any European hotel breakfasts are Superior to the
Standard free Donuts and coffee at the Mid Tier Hotels in the US .
Told booze is cheap in Tallin also..
Comment by rick — Mon, Dec 25th, 2006 @ 9:22 pm
“You guys just never quit amaizing me, with your stupidy.”
That’s actually quite funny with regard to the Australian Wheat Board, but I guess you don’t understand why. Before calling others stupid you should proof read your postings Winter.
Comment by Toby — Tue, Dec 26th, 2006 @ 1:33 am
As you don’t seem to be able to do your own research, here is some done for you. Try seeing if you can get your head round this winter: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/23/america/NA_GEN_US_Iraqi_Lawsuit.php
Comment by Toby — Tue, Dec 26th, 2006 @ 1:35 am
If he himself says he’s a finn, then he is. Otherwise, no. If I moved somewhere as an adult, and lived the whole rest of my life there, I’d likely say and feel I was finnish, even if I had some other nationality too.
Comment by Anonymous — Tue, Dec 26th, 2006 @ 3:45 pm
Toby, your link no worke
But I am surprised you did not quote the BBC. Have you figured out the main battle plan yet, or are you too BBC driven that all you can think of is Vietnam?
Try to think… Globaly……
Comment by winter — Tue, Dec 26th, 2006 @ 4:27 pm
#111 “Ever hear of the Axis of Evil? 1 down, 2 to go.”
The specific regime of Saddam (note spelling for future referencce, by the way) Hussein is certainly “down”, but since the cakewalk/quagmire began, Iraqi opponents of the US global cause are wreaking much more havoc on American interests than Saddam ever could.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Tue, Dec 26th, 2006 @ 6:43 pm
Winter - just try to think (and spell)…
Comment by Toby — Tue, Dec 26th, 2006 @ 6:56 pm
#117 By the way, Toby’s link worked just fine with me.
#119 “Winter - just try to think (and spell)…”
I think you may be asking too much.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Tue, Dec 26th, 2006 @ 7:02 pm
Kimmo - maybe Winter’s firewall filters out news from the “Reality based community”?
Comment by Toby — Tue, Dec 26th, 2006 @ 10:08 pm
Sorry, had a Netscape problem with the link. It works with IE.
“wreaking much more havoc on American interests than Saddam ever could.”
Right, about as much Havoc as standing around as Human Shields, helping Iran win back lebanon. Let see in 1 year who was the fool here.
My bet: You guys run, as soon as Lebanon goes into civil war. A war you all help to start. Do we start the clock?
Comment by winter — Wed, Dec 27th, 2006 @ 5:30 am
#122 “Right, about as much Havoc as standing around as Human Shields, helping Iran win back lebanon.”
Actually, it is my impression that Lebanon is fairly calm now - certainly compared with Iraq.
“My bet: You guys run, as soon as Lebanon goes into civil war. A war you all help to start.”
If things break down to that level, international peacekeepers will certainly leave; the whole idea of peacekeeping operations is to monitor a peace or cease fire agreed to by both sides, and not to be a belligerent party. There is no guarantee of success, but on the other hand, there aren’t hundreds of thousands of dead either.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Wed, Dec 27th, 2006 @ 11:10 am
I’m always most amused when a member of America’s Patriotic Kindergarteners starts frothing about cowardly Europeans cutting and running. Why, wasn’t it America that ran away crying like little baby when Somalis killed *eighteen* of their soldiers in Mogadishu. Such guts!
Comment by Semtex — Wed, Dec 27th, 2006 @ 11:41 am
“whole idea of peacekeeping operations is to monitor a peace or cease fire agreed to by both sides, and not to be a belligerent party.”
so true, but then what did you do when 9,000 Muslims were frog marched off to a machine gun? Well, you were not a belligerent party..
It takes guts to do what the USA is doing. It takes no guts to be non-belligerent party.
I for one am happy, you are no longer the supreme ruler of the world. On your watch 400,000 have died in Darfur.
Comment by winter — Wed, Dec 27th, 2006 @ 4:22 pm
I’m white and I’ve lived here for getting on for 18 years. I also speak both Swedish and Finnish.
But if I were to take out Finnish citizenship (being British and thus EU there’s little point), that would make me a Finnish citizen - nothing more, nothing less.
It wouldn’t miraculously make me a Finn and nor would I want it to.
Find better causes for your disgust (if that’s what it is). I don’t find Helsingin Sanomat’s stance at all odd.
Comment by Mike Walsh — Wed, Dec 27th, 2006 @ 5:27 pm
“….that would make me a Finnish citizen - nothing more, nothing less.”
Yes, and when you go abroad, everyone will expect you to be drunk—that is, once they discover that you’re a ‘Finn.’ Happens to me all the time.
Holy cow, 18-years is a long time. You must be a glutton for punishment
Comment by Kristian (in Espoo) — Wed, Dec 27th, 2006 @ 7:01 pm
The USA has clear evidence of Iran’s involvement in killing American servicemen in Iraq. We have the captured munitions.
Wow. Are those munitions nukyaler or are they more like the sarin shells that have been sitting in the desert for 20 years? I have to remember that when the spin doctors start whining how Iranian munitions never were an issue.
Iran’s supplying of weapons in order to kill Americans is an act of war.
That’s a fresh one. What’s wrong with selling weapons? It’s all business. Are you some kind of a communist?
The extra troups are going to jump off positions in Iraq
Are they souper troupers?
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Dec 27th, 2006 @ 7:21 pm
“Yes, and when you go abroad, everyone will expect you to be drunkâ€â€that is, once they discover that you’re a ‘Finn.’ Happens to me all the time.”
Heh, my experience is that they expect nothing, as they don’t know nothing about Finland. It’s easy to deliver pleasant surprises, until they start knowing you better.
“Iran’s supplying of weapons in order to kill Americans is an act of war.”
Whew, luckily the Soviets did not take it that way, when some Lapua ammunition was found in Afghanistan back in the 80’s.
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Wed, Dec 27th, 2006 @ 10:03 pm
Whew, luckily the Soviets did not take it that way, when some Lapua ammunition was found in Afghanistan back in the 80’s.
Since most of the weapons were coming from the US, I guess that by winter’s “logic” the Soviets should have nuked them.
Comment by Freeridin' Franklin — Wed, Dec 27th, 2006 @ 11:04 pm
Ilta-Sanomat centre spread today shouts “50 Finns stuck in Miogadishu”… maybe of-somali-origin, but Finnish Citizens, including a Helsinki City Council member… (I voted for back in the day)
Comment by Hank W. — Fri, Dec 29th, 2006 @ 8:14 pm
Your home (country) is where your heart is. If the dude felt himself to be Finnish, I would accept that, and if he preferred to be called an Iraqi, that’s good too. Where’s the problem?
And Semtex, you spoke the word. Mission in Mogadishu: Winter down.
Comment by aet75 — Sat, Dec 30th, 2006 @ 7:34 am
The guy basically voted with his feet when he took the governor’s job in his native country. Therefore, to call him a “Finn” - and notbhing else - might have been technically correct, but nevertheless a tad misleading, and downright disrespectful.
Pointing out that he is an Iraqi who took on Finnish citizenship summarises his personal background quite well: to suggest that there would be some kind of a hidden racist agenda on the part of the news medium is really way off the mark!
Comment by Kimmo W. — Sat, Dec 30th, 2006 @ 7:58 pm
this is kinda nice to see what people write about my dad
ohh and finish people are great theyre not racists
Comment by :D — Sun, Nov 4th, 2007 @ 8:48 pm
This comment is coming a bit late, but it isn’t racism to call a Finnish Citizen a Finnish Citizen. Finns are also Finnish Citizens, the key difference is that to be a Finn you must be a Finn-born; at least one parent must be a Finnish Citizen.
If you’re not born a Finn you won’t be one and that’s all there is to it.
Comment by mrfinn — Wed, Dec 12th, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
Your learning system is marvillous in the world ,I do appreciate it very much ,I wish I would be there we have a rubbish education system in the world .Keep informing me about your happy system.Thanks.
Comment by samir kallini — Sat, Mar 1st, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
Your learning system is marvillous in the world ,I do appreciate it very much ,I wish I would be there we have a rubbish education system in the world( in Egypt.) .Keep informing me about your happy system.Thanks.
Comment by samir kallini — Sat, Mar 1st, 2008 @ 5:05 pm