The intelligence co-operation between the US and the Finnish defence forces was surprisingly deep. According to a document called “Salainen sotilastie”, the FDF gave the Americans all kinds of electronically gathered information about the Soviet Union in exchange of info on Soviet troops stationed in the Leningrad military district.

The military relations between the US & Finland have traditionally been extremely warm.

Those pre-Kekkonen years are highly interesting as regards intelligence matters: the Finnish intelligence service was quite pro-Western those years when the Cold War was in a very tense phase. Kekkonen naturally put stop to it but even he allowed some contacts and was possibly not aware of others. These things are always so murky and difficult for historians: the tracks are carefully covered even though important things happened (not to say that much of this cloak and dagger stuff is simply useless and overhyped). It is quite a dilemma for serious historiography: if you limit yourself only to trustworthy empirical proof, you know that you won’t get the whole story – but what else is there to use, rumours and legends?

The military relations between the US & Finland have traditionally been extremely warm

It’s a shame all this knowledge has been not known, or kept secret until now.

This article ( http://www.yle.fi/aohjelmat/apiste/arkisto/id49353.html ) had some surprising bits of information such as this one:

Amerikkalainen tiedustelututkija, tri Jeffrey Richelson kirjoittaa, että Suomella oli Yhdysvaltain kanssa samanlainen tiedustelualan yhteistyö- ja tietovaihtosopimus kuin läheisellä liittolaismaalla Etelä-Korealla ja Nato-maa Italialla.

It’s long but definately worth a read.

Theres a few books by “Esa Anttala” of ex-long-range-patrolmen (of the Larry Thorne fame) who went as paid agents on “overborder” trips to spy on Soviet installations in the North (across from Norway area was very interesting to the NATO).

It’s a shame all this knowledge has been not known, or kept secret until now.

Personal lack of knowledge is not the same as absence of information. The cooperation between Finland and the US has been well known, only more details about it, and perhaps the scale, may come to the light.

I wonder when they will reveal Finnish-German cooperation details during Hitler’s time. Then it’ll clearly explain why Soviet’s “liked” Finland so much:)

Here is the perfect example of Finnish politics. They smiled to Soviets, spied for Germans and Americans and pretended to be an innocent country.

That’s why I more respect US and even Russia! Whatever they do, they do it openly.

OFFTOPIC: Estonia was transporting secret Russian weapons! Already proven. Who else belive that Estonia sunk due to bad weather and defects?

Jukka Rislakki wrote several books about the subject already in the 70s and 80s.

Anyway, this cape and dagger stuff is often kept secret for some strange reason. People are made to promise to keep silent. Finns tend to stick to their promise, unlike certain other people who like to leak their information. Well, that was the opinion of Markku Heiskanen, the YLE guy who made the reportage. That’s why not much has been known this far – and will not be known until the records in Washington become public.

Belino: What more is there to know about the Finnish-German co-operation? Also, it’s nonsensical to compare the policies of superpowers like Russia and the US with those of a small nation like Finland. Superpowers make the rules, and small nations can only try to live with them.

That’s why I more respect US and even Russia! Whatever they do, they do it openly.

Hah, hah, that was a good one!

@Belino
‘Whatever they do, they do it openly.’
Sure. Who’s ever heard of a great power doing anything in secret… Well, not you, anyway. Keep dreaming.
And the Estonia conspiracy theories are still crap.

Heh, double standards are not so unfamiliar for the superpowers either. What was this Soviet support for various peace movements during the cold war, while generously arming all kinds of 3rd world guerilla movements, effectively causing more havoc and suffering than solving social problems by revolution. Or U.S. supporting right-wing dictatorships, while jesusing around with freedom and human rights.

Small country causes usually small damages while looking for its interest.

mjr: Kekkonen’s fawning over the Soviets was not motivated by his love for communism but practical political considerations. The armed forces and SUPO retained their pro-Western orientation during Kekkonen’s reign, he never sought to undermine those contacts, although he must have known about them.

@Belino: I had a good laugh reading your post. To comment some of your ‘points’:

“I wonder when they will reveal Finnish-German cooperation details during Hitler’s time. Then it’ll clearly explain why Soviet’s “liked” Finland so much:)”

#9 said it. And, the Soviet’s “liking” Finland had little to do with Hitler. When SU first invaded Finland (unprovoked!), the SOVIETS were in agreement with Hitler.

“Here is the perfect example of Finnish politics. They smiled to Soviets, spied for Germans and Americans and pretended to be an innocent country.

That’s why I more respect US and even Russia! Whatever they do, they do it openly.”

So you think Finland should’ve SPIED OPENLY?! And ‘innocent country’ during the cold war? US and Russia operating openly? What are you, five years old?

“OFFTOPIC: Estonia was transporting secret Russian weapons! Already proven. Who else belive that Estonia sunk due to bad weather and defects?”

Yes. I’m sure all ships transporting military hardware sink (and because of that). Makes sense.

#14 was mine. Sorry.

#7

Just knock on CIA’s or FSB’s/KGB’s door and ask all their documents for reading.

“drafted calculations for the flight routes”
Was a routine final exam for Math majors in my University. I kinda don’t think this was a very big secret, as the one I had was from data from Finnish ground stations.

They give you 4 observation points of a missile trajectory. You as the student, using math, intersections of planes and a circle (Circle is the round earth). Then find the launch point and end point.

Heck, If this was in a University text book, back in the 70’s, I don’t think it was a secret.

Yes, even Isaac Newton would have been able to solve the missile trajectory in the case of perfectly round earth. He would have had problems with hitting the target accurately though, as the earth is not perfectly round and the gravity field differs accordingly from the Newton’s law, containing also higher order terms, than the famous inverse square.

Those higher order terms were probably the big deal military hush-hush at time, as you need to know those to hit in few km’s accuracy with a ballistic missile. Isaac and math students do well without the last terms and decimals in given data. If they miss the target by 100km, their error is just about 0.25% compared to circumference of earth.

I wonder what the fellows would have thought if the USA had launched missiles into Finland as the plan was. Perhaps they would have had just enough time to think “treason” before being turned into a heap of burned flesh.

They would’ve thought: “WTF is this? Deterrent… deterrent they said”

Yes, but even using a round earth, we got a crossing on the shooting city and target. Good enough for a Nuke where target accurately is not required.

Was a routine final exam for Math majors in my University. I kinda don’t think this was a very big secret, as the one I had was from data from Finnish ground stations.

Interesting. In Finland the calculations mostly involve the inertia of oscillating French white flags.

It took 4 days to crunch the numbers on a HP-45, with 4 digits of accuracy. Then by programming the equations in APL, (Long before basic, around the old Fortran days) the computer could zap the answer out.

Oscillating French white Flags, probably did not help. Makes for a inaccurate solution, and one that never resolves to a final answer.

Plus the other guy just has no respect for your answer, as he is dreaming up his next demand, so you can waive the flags again, and again, and again.

That’s why I more respect US and even Russia! Whatever they do, they do it openly.

OFFTOPIC: Estonia was transporting secret Russian weapons!

How can there be secret Russian weapons?

#21: Actually accuracy is essential, especially when targeting military installations (esp. missile silos in a first strike scenario) and infrastructure; also, the more accurate the targeting, the less payload is required to ensure target destruction.

Haven’t been reading blogs so much lately. (The time between Thanksgiving & Christmas always speeds by.) Maaan, I missed so much your blog! Racist comments from the Michael Richards stuff, riots in Copenhagen, gift idea, great movies, etc. Is there anything you *don’t* cover here?

But, back to the matter at hand … US – FINNISH collaborations and stuff. Just out of curiosity, the original “they do it openly” comment was just meant to be a joke wasn’t?

Is there anything you *don’t* cover here?

It takes an American to create great media.

“accuracy is essential, especially when targeting military installations ”

correct, but the first nukes were crowd pleasures, thus targeted at big cities. No accuracy needed. The crowd will clap when they see it, no less.

13: No, I would imagine Kekkonen was very anti-Soviet – he just was even more Macchiavellian. But I do believe he did limit the contacts and co-operation with the West, for pragmatic reasons. I do not see him as un-patriotic but I’m still not the biggest fan: strange that Paasikivi was able to maintain such a clear distinction between home and foreign policy in much, much more difficult situation (with Stalin alive and Porkkala occupied etc. etc.) and Kekkonen was not…

- – - = = = H i ! _ G a y s _ T h a n k _ y o u _ f o r _ s u c h _ a n _ i n f o r m a t i v e _ w e b s i t e . . V e r i _ i n t e r e s t i n _ a n _ e a y _ t o _ c o m p r e h e n d – T h a n x ! – - = = A l l , N i c e _ s i t e , _ I _h a v e _ b e e n _ s e e i n g _ s o m e _ r e a l l y i n t e r e s t i n g _ c o m m e n t s . . . _ g o i n g _ t o _ t e l l _ m e _ f r i e n d _ l o u i s e _ a b o u t _ t h i s _ s i t e ! ! = = = – - -

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