OMG thats sad and…dunno what to say =( wonder why he did it?
R.I.P brave veteran.

tradition, boys like to see tanks, it raises interest for conscription, get more work for road district. Why did i wake this morning?

I’ve been wondering about his motives. Maybe he was sick – or lonely as many elderly citizen are. http://www.vanhuusilmanyksinaisyytta.fi

“And what the hell are we doing rolling tanks down the street nowadays anyways? ”
so the finnish militarism is to blame then.

so the finnish militarism is to blame then.

That or the welfare state.

“And what the hell are we doing rolling tanks down the street nowadays anyways? ”

Not at all. It just seems very Soviet-esque. I thought Finland would be “beyond” that.

5. so the finnish militarism is to blame then.

That or the welfare state.

Indeed, the welfare state can be blamed. As the link provided by Suviko states, every second day an elderly person in Finland commits suicide. That kind of despair seems to be the result of a society which simply doesn’t provide much meaning to life, to the point that the elderly can’t wait to leave it.

that is so sad. one less hero veterans left

I guess this is Finnpundit-logic at its finest: a society that tries to look after the old and the infirm is to blame if the elderly are not alright. He is not saying this society should try harder, but in fact advocating that it should stop trying altogether.

Take away the welfare state and the elderly will live happily ever after, right? Wrong. Even in the US suicide is a very common cause of death among the elderly. For example in 1998 over 5800 elderly people took their own lives and thus suffered 19% of all the suicide deaths in the country.

Many countries have military periods on their independence day or national day. For instance, possibly the biggest in Europe is in France on their national Bastille day (it makes our’s look miniscule in comparison).

“a society that tries to look after the old and the infirm is to blame if the elderly are not alright. ”

thats your problem. Your welfare state medical system probably had the guy on drugs, refusing him modern treatments, and says, “You are to old, we will use the medical money for others”.

By the way Tanks on the street is just one way your government reminds you they have the power, your money is thier money, and they will by golly, spend it.

For example in 1998 over 5800 elderly people took their own lives and thus suffered 19% of all the suicide deaths in the country.

That still leaves Finland’s suicide rate more than 50% higher.

He is not saying this society should try harder, but in fact advocating that it should stop trying altogether.

Trying harder is always the mantra of socialists. In fact, that was the mainstay of Soviet society: everyone was exhorted to try harder to be a true socialist. The result was one of the most rapacious societies in the world.

Those who advocate free-markets are intent on “trying easier”: finding systemic, free-market based solutions that don’t waste valuable resources in trying harder.

By the way Tanks on the street is just one way your government reminds you they have the power, your money is thier money, and they will by golly, spend it.

Thanks for enlightening me. I suppose your government goes one better and does it by invading countries and occupying them to remind not only its own citizens that they have the money and that they have no quarms on spending it on killing innocent people.

By the way Tanks on the street is just one way your government reminds you they have the power, your money is thier money, and they will by golly, spend it.

Tanks….! Uh, I mean thanks! For the explanation. I was wondering what all that rattling armor was about.

Uh-huh. The ever-green Finland vs. USA comparison has apparently transcended to completely new levels.

Finnpundit: That’s simply banal. You may think you’re so damn witty but politicising this kind of human tragedy is quite fucking tasteless, even in your standards. Have you personally ever known anyone who has taken his or her own life?

I bet my liver that you’re a far-left troll.

“a society that tries to look after the old and the infirm is to blame if the elderly are not alright. ”

I’ve worked in nursing homes in Finland and the U.S. I was a nursing aide(a.k.a professional ass wiper). Nursing homes in Finland are horrific. The are much worse than our Medicare(that’s goverment health care) funded homes in the US. Medicare homes are the worst in the US. All nursing homes are funded by the goverment in the US (don’t die of shock if you didn’t know that) to some degree. The ones that recieve very little funding typicly are the best homes(privatly paid for).

I felt sorry for the elderly Finns that had to deal with me because I didn’t know a lick of Finnish at the time. I also had to disperse medication in Finland, which shocked me because I had no idea what pills I was holding, dosage amounts, etc. I had to decifer from a piece of paper another Aide gave me. I couldn’t believe I was giving medication to old people and my only support was an aide with a 9th grade education. In the US aides never give meds, only LPNs and RNs who have some idea of what they are giving can do it. Not to mentioned the places were unbeliveably short staffed. Many times people would be sitting in stale urine for what seemed to be days on end. I only worked in a few homes in Helsinki area and for short periods of time, so maybe I saw the worst of the worse. Still it’s unacceptable… I think it was illegal for me to perform that work but I was willing to work for a pittance and the nursing homes were desperate.

I did come across a couple of sweet, old, elderly Finns that spoke some English. I really enjoyed what they had to say in the few conversations I had with them. It seemed to me they had lots of sisu.

Finnpundit, thank you for clarifying that for me. Next time I try not to visit my grandmother or do her shopping for her. Instead, I’ll pay some guy to do it for me so I can concentrate in doing my bit for the free markets. This way the GDP will grow, employment rates look a bit better and less resources will be wasted. I’ll just go the company that will do the job on the cheap, no questions asked. No need for all that emotional stuff.

“By the way Tanks on the street is just one way your government reminds you they have the power, your money is thier money, and they will by golly, spend it.”

Somewhat like the US Govt reminds its citizens by imposing their tanks, ships and aircraft on foreign countries.
By sacrificing so many of their young poor men are the US citizens being reminded that the Administration owns their lives also, Winter?

“By sacrificing so many of their young poor men are the US citizens”

the USA is reminding the world, that at least one country cares. By the way did you ever do anything about Darfur? We turned that cute assignment down.

Maksalaatikko, it really is interesting that in this land of socialism, we still do not manage the same quality of care for elderly as in US.. Does not really surprise me though. Thank you for your insight.

On american Independence Day, Baghdad hides in the basement.

This is actually shocking.

Well if you are making a parade, better make it as good as you can get so bring tanks too. And i doubt most finns even realise that americans only have.. uhm balloons (?) in their parades and that bringing tanks would be odd to them.

Besides it’s not techically a tank “A tank is a tracked armoured fighting vehicle designed to engage enemy forces head-on, using direct fire from a large caliber-gun.” Try going head-on with leopard with this anti-aa gun and you will be toast.

Phil: I think you should just close this thread and open a new one if suicide and the care for the elderly is to be discussed, let alone tanks/SPA. This incident was a personal, private tragedy, even if the manner of his death was very public. If nothing else comes up, like he wanted to make a statement or something, this should IMHO be left alone. Those who want the grisly details can buy the weekend tabloids.

It does ring a bell to explain every private tragedy by socio-political reasons – oh yes, the tactic beloved by the Marxist-Leninists of yore. In the modern political debate there is no other group than the American rabid conservatives cum libertarians that brings Marxists to mind… A Grand Theory explaining every failure and every success that also leads to deny every empirical observation suggesting anything otherwise. Hmm, I think I can see where this is leading…

The unfortunate thing is the II World War veteran committed a suicide just one day after the Finnish parliament
voted for the Constitution of The European Union!
Finns think he did it for he felt Finland betrayed him by joining in the European Union. He fighted for Finnish Independence…
The largest discussion forum in Finland is found at http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi and there you will find plenty of talks about the incident. A few groups are in English too. Choose politics for example if you can some Finnish. The suicide motive may as well be he was running out of money because of the rapid privatization of the healtcare…..

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=114&conference=1000000000000008&posting=22000000021870981

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=110&conference=1500000000000107&posting=22000000021874445

or http://www.suomi24.fi

mostly in Finnish only but there are plenty of usefull talks. You will find houses for rent etc.

The major Finnish news channels are silent about the incident. Quite akward.. horrible.. No big headlines just silence.

War is hell and most soldiers never die old , perhaps a fitting way to ends his tormented nitemares.

Technically, that wasn’t a tank. It was a mobile triple A battery.

That kind of despair seems to be the result of a society which simply doesn’t provide much meaning to life

You are right, Pundy, living in a society that works too well can lead to an existential crisis on an individual level. There’s nothing like a revolution, war or famine to spice things up a little. You seem to have tons of ideas for bringing those about.

By the way Tanks on the street is just one way your government reminds you they have the power, your money is thier money, and they will by golly, spend it.

Wouldn’t it be better if they just wayved the French white flag of surrender?

#27: What’s the news here? You think the man did it to make a headline, to get his 15 minutes?. It was a suicide, no reckless tankers loose on the streets: no news. I’m sure the yellow press will get you your headlines though. And THAT’s what’s awkward and horrible if you ask me.

15. Aapo: Finnpundit: That’s simply banal. You may think you’re so damn witty but politicising this kind of human tragedy is quite fucking tasteless, even in your standards.

Oh, spare me your phony, sermonizing standards. One month after 9/11 I got a long email from a (former) Finnish friend elucidating in so many ways as to why the people trapped in the Twin Towers deserved to die.

Have you personally ever known anyone who has taken his or her own life?

Yes. It’s always a mistake to presume that someone else has never had a taste of tragedy.

16. Drakon: Next time I try not to visit my grandmother or do her shopping for her. Instead, I’ll pay some guy to do it for me so I can concentrate in doing my bit for the free markets.

On the contrary, family members should take care of their own first, before expecting the state to do so. Too often in Finland families shunt their elderly into the care of the state, since families simply do not have the self-made resources to accommodate familial responsibilities.

The elderly have to be seen as a resource, in terms of knowledge, experience and, – most importantly – inspiration. The problem in a welfare state is that life becomes so banal when state support is guaranteed: there is very little life experience to impart, if life is so uneventful. That makes for some very un-inspirational role models. It makes being old a real drag.

I tend to think that this veteran’s greatest life achievements, in his mind, were probably realized during the war. His life after that in welfare-statist Finland may have been so anti-climactic as to be not worth living anymore.

In my opinion the person who produced the U-Tube video is Sick..and so is anyone (Phil) who links to it.
This is a very sad personal event ..being made a Drama by and for sick people.

Karhu: If there wasn’t a video showing the man kneeling under the tank, most people would probably have the impression that my mother had when she was explaining the incident to me one the phone yesterday: a veteran was walking in the parade in front of the tank, fell over and got run over by it.

This man chose to kill himself in the limelight – he was very much involved in making his own death a public drama. By killing himself he decidedly pointed a blaming finger on the Finnish society and his relatives for leaving him to deal with his own problems. Maybe he would have liked the media interest.

“And what the hell are we doing rolling tanks down the street nowadays anyways?”

A lot of people came to watch the parade. So there seems to be a demand for tank viewing. You can’t argue with that if you believe in the markets.

Why would it be in the markets’ interest to help the eldelry? Like Finnpundit says, the markets don’t waste resources. Old people are a bad investment.

So you already know what was his point?
What if he was demonstating against U.S. in Irak?
Or maybe actions of Israel?
If it was something personal?
I’m sure the tabloids will dig out something, but I wouldn’t use this as hobby horse for anything before that.

I had to look the “keppihevonen” – hobby horse from dictionary.

One month after 9/11 I got a long email from a (former) Finnish friend elucidating in so many ways as to why the people trapped in the Twin Towers deserved to die.

Yep, sounds idiotic. I can understand if he’s not your friend anymore.

But it’s true that your way to run an argument is very similar to devoted Marxists. No matter what is the theme you bring it dogmatically back to welfare state, like a robot. Any other tracks in your jukebox?

It gives liberalism a bad name, and that’s why I think you’re a far-left undercover.

Never trust people who trust -isms. An old jungle saying.

In my opinion the person who produced the U-Tube video is Sick..and so is anyone (Phil) who links to it.
This is a very sad personal event ..being made a Drama by and for sick people.

If they guy would have been accidentally run over by a tank, then I wouldn’t have shown it. Or if it was very graphic, but this guy obviously committed suicide for a reason, and he wanted to be heard, he wanted to prove a point, he wanted people to be talking about it.

A lot of people came to watch the parade. So there seems to be a demand for tank viewing. You can’t argue with that if you believe in the markets.

That’s even scarier – the demand in this country to spend the day watching tanks roll down the street.

“That’s even scarier – the demand in this country to spend the day watching tanks roll down the street.”

Actually the parade took like 15 minutes.

…We don’t have that many tanks.

What if he was a dementia patient or what if he had a war flashback and tried to destroy the tank in his delusions (setting a anti-tankmine under its tracks).

What if and what if…

People never learn :/

What an utterly disgusting thread. Nobody here knows, why this man committed suicide, and here you all are claiming each other, society whatever. What’s the matter with you?!?! Have some respect!

Karhu wrote:”In my opinion the person who produced the U-Tube video is Sick..”

Not really “producing” he was filming the parade and tanks to him, this tragedy is shown. All major media events I saw yesterday commented the occurrence with a line or two. Not a word on main television news. All sources of news told the event as accident.

It looks like there is an agreement not to mention on this piece of news. Or they just let the tabloid papers, or as they are called Finland, junk papers to earn money on the event.
btw, a Finnish Center politician Maria Kaisa Aula suggested the tabloid papers should be located in such a way in stores, children could not see the big and screaming headlines with bloody pictures.
It is a good proposal but the media mogules will never accept that, it is as with the wine, there will be never any warning texts on bottles.

Lauranen wrote
“Karhu: If there wasn’t a video showing the man kneeling under the tank, most people would probably have the impression that my mother had when she was explaining the incident to me one the phone yesterday: a veteran was walking in the parade in front of the tank, fell over and got run over by it.”

Most people here still think it was an accident. This is the worst scenario what can happen that YLE, MTV3 are trying to hide the incident because of politicial reasons. The man chose to kill himself on the independece day and a few hours before the big festival in the “castle of president”. Kokoomus party removed all links to “suicide messages” on the message forum concerning their politics when some peole claimed the budjet savings caused indirectly the death of the veteran. For example Espoo town has privatized the care of elderly people and some old people cannot afford to live any more at their service houses. Veterans and old poor peole are send on to streets. In that case it is almost better to throw oneself on the front of vehicle. Boycott the tabloid papers which make money out of this!!!

[i]What an utterly disgusting thread. Nobody here knows, why this man committed suicide, and here you all are claiming each other, society whatever. What’s the matter with you?!?! Have some respect!

Comment by Kaislis[/i]

[i]If they guy would have been accidentally run over by a tank, then I wouldn’t have shown it.
Comment by Phil[/i]

I hope that you never see a video of some disturbed member of your family commiting suicide Phil.
This sad old soldier probably had grand children. Today they can watch some amatuer video of their grand-dads death..Thanks to the likes of you…kiitoksia…

in above message, thanks to him of course and thanks to Phil who published the story! How did you find the video and is it legal to
publish pictures of Helsingin Sanomat? Just wondering you are not getting any troubles. At least the biggest parties do not like the tragedy at all!! All messages and hints to suicide are very rapidly removed on Finnish discussion forums. See for example the http://www.suomi24.fi. That board gets approx. 30.000 messages a day and now they have removed a huge pile of message from angry people who want goverment to research the tragedy in details. Plenty of people are accusing the budget savings and privatization. Some say he killed himself because of lost independence. Nevertheless, massive amount of messages are removed. Elections are not far away thus the parties are very sensitive and calling to moderators* of forums in order to get all negative content removed!!!!

In Finland forum moderators are called Sheriffs.(-;

mats wrote: The major Finnish news channels are silent about the incident.

That isn’t true at all. It was covered on the TV news – I know because that’s where I first heard of it – and then there’s the link to Helsingin Sanomat in this very blog post. It also made the front pages of both major tabloids.

lauranen wrote: By killing himself he decidedly pointed a blaming finger on the Finnish society and his relatives for leaving him to deal with his own problems.

You seem to know much more about what was on his mind than what’s available in the press, so would you mind telling the rest of us what his problems were? Be very specific, please.

Anonymous wrote: For example Espoo town has privatized the care of elderly people and some old people cannot afford to live any more at their service houses. Veterans and old poor peole are send on to streets.

Did this person live in Espoo? Did he live on the streets? In fact, do you have any idea where and how he lived, or are you just trying to make political hay out of an old man’s death?

See the big difference here: Phil is not making money out of this. He is spending his freetime to spread the news while some Finnish parties are hiding the tragedy and tabloid papers are making money out if while the headlines of yesterday explained the event as an accident! There are even such party mongerers out there on message boards who spread the word of accident. “The usage of party mongerers” was imported by the right wing party kokoomus from their counterparty in the States. Now all message boards are full with them. And they pay money in order to get their opinion heard on message boards.

Phil already explained the video is not very detailed and thus it is
not tasteless to publish. The veteran might have tried to say something important: A heroic way to die but very unfamiliar in Finland. And really horrible if people start choosing to die in this way .

I agree with Lamb above. I find it utter bullshit to say that this incident is being hushed up for political reasons. It has, after all, been commented upon by all major media outlets.

I think the major reason for the low key reporting of the suicide is the fact that YLE, MTV3 and the rest have been following their official liturgy on the Independence Day reporting and found it very awkward to fit such a piece in the middle of the general feelgood message of the event. One could also say, that this has been played down because of respect both for the dead veteran and his family and also for Finnish war veterans in general.

But I guess some people just love to see huge screaming headlines and special news reports every time a poor soul decides to end his/her own life. If no such reporting is not forthcoming, then it just has to be a Political Conspiracy…

mats wrote: The major Finnish news channels are silent about the incident.
a lamb wrote:
That isn’t true at all. It was covered on the TV news – I know because that’s where I first heard of it – and then there’s the link to Helsingin Sanomat in this very blog post. It also made the front pages of both major tabloids
————–
not a single word on the tragedy on YLE or MTV3 television news. The suicide was totally invisible. YLE news had very short news because of the Linnanjuhlat.(the independence ceremony arranged by the president)
The obvious reason for that is if they had issued a suicide report, the Finnish news agency STT should have issued the same piece of news across the globe to their partner agencies. Finnish net news are not spreading accross the globe, anyway, and news websites are not very popular compared to main news at prime time.

Eye-witnesses were telling apart of the story at http://www.suomi24.fi but most of the messages with *suicide as a topic* are vanished and some are spreading still the word of accident.

The *suicide topics* are gone with wind!!!

Come on… I suppose YLE didnt know more the facts than we do here? Afterall, there is no room for such speculations in news than there is in free Internet.

It was all there, all the necessary information we needed. A man died in military parade. Should we twist the knife more? The rumours were on the air, was it a suicide or was it something else… Sometimes its better to shut up instead throwing ‘obvious’ information to the public.

When the offical information about this incident comes out, I’m pretty sure YLE gives it a room somewhere.

A good comparison, how would have the incident reported in the U.S. media if an American Iraqi war veteran would have killed himself in a front of a U.S. military vehicle under a parade of fourth of July?
No coverage at all? Big headlines? Headlines telling it was an accident? Several Finnish Eye-witnessed used just internet message boards because they wanted Finnish people to know the truth. Almost 50.000 soldiers were killed in Finland in wars against Sovjet Union and 200.000 were injured. The winter war first and the second war against Sovjet is everything but a joke here!! Finland paid some 4 billions euros as was compensations to Sovjet Union. Partly due to that fact the country got industriliazed. Many big Finnish corporations of today have grown out of that compensation money.

Private homes for elderly people are not forbidden in Finland. The state just offers cheaper option for those, who can’t afford private ones.

And I don’t like the parades either. But again I can’t see any connection between them and wellfare-state. The state is showing military power in parades and in Finland that is seen as showing capability to protect the borders, not threatening own citizens. And usually the right-wing parties and politicians are in favour of these kind of things. The left-wingers tend to be more pacifistic and less patriotic.

I’m a bit surprised of the very light coverage this event has received in the news. Anyway, the HS news piece that Phil links to, says the man “threw himself under the thank”. Yes, they are clearly trying to downplay it as an accident.

#57
It was in the news… I dont know are the people blind or what.

The US media would almost certainly made this a huge news, but then again, perhaps we arent like the americans? Shit happens, deal with it.

I’d rather feel sorrow for him than watch the man die over and over again in our news. After few weeks I would commit suicide as well.

And btw, over 90.000 finnish soldiers died in WW2. If I recall…

I mean “tank”.

Dragon:
I agree with Lamb above. I find it utter bullshit to say that this incident is being hushed up for political reasons. It has, after all, been commented upon by all major media outlets.

I think the major reason for the low key reporting of the suicide is the fact that YLE, MTV3 and the rest have been following their official liturgy on the Independence Day reporting and found it very awkward to fit such a piece in the middle of the general feelgood message of the event. One could also say, that this has been played down because of respect both for the dead veteran and his family and also for Finnish war veterans in general.

…….

I agree .. but I cannot understand why it was reported as an accident and why there was less news space used as for “a normal suicide case”.
The status of Independence is somehow very huge in Finland. In his own way the veteran committed a terrorist act and in a way this attack could be compared to the Twin tower attack case in the States. Finland is a small country and something very extraordinary occurring on the day of Indep. should get a huge impact through the society!!!Perhaps the veteran knew this and media silenced his suicide for worth of nothing!!
But the thing is sure, that this tragedy will be in peoples mind very long time and most of the Finns have not realized yet what did happen. Many veterans will never know about the tragedy and most older people will not understand the meaning of the deed ever!

Well, and I thought it was the welfare state that did it. Try to get your stories straight. Hmm, I guess I’m in for a FFT break once again – this site can be quite nasty at times. Finnpundit is of course an amazingly unpleasant piece of work, but we should not forget that Phil lets him guestblog here. That’s a fairly significant statement in itself. I’m sure Phil mostly provokes just to increase his traffic, for the most part it is just mechanical and boring (and politically and intellectually there really are quite a lot of sharper knives in the drawer…) but sometimes it goes further than that.

It Can’t be TRUE, Check it by yourself!!! Not a word about this terrible incident on YLE TELETEXT News, MTV3 Teletext News or on Nelonen TELETEXT News merely a day after the tragedy. If they had something all are gone. The biggest news of today is that Finnish Sperm banks are demolished by the law and there is a manifest march at a paper mill. What quality papers and journalist we have. A dead veteran is worth less than a euro cent or no articles at all. Neither mentioned the YLE Morning show anything on the suicide!

Anonymous wrote: the headlines of yesterday explained the event as an accident

Which headlines would that be? Quote them.

The veteran might have tried to say something important

Maybe, maybe not. You don’t know why he did what he did, so don’t assume that he agreed with your political opinions. For all you know, he was a staunch Kokoomus voter.

not a single word on the tragedy on YLE or MTV3 television news.

How come I first learned about it on YLE’s TV-uutiset?

the Finnish news agency STT should have issued the same piece of news across the globe to their partner agencies

STT did report on it. Here’s their article (in English).

why there was less news space used as for “a normal suicide case”.

You have it the wrong way around. This death has attracted much more media coverage than an average suicide.

In his own way the veteran committed a terrorist act and in a way this attack could be compared to the Twin tower attack case in the States.

Okay, so you’re insane. Why didn’t you say this at the beginning and save me the trouble of refuting your made-up nonsense?

http://blogit.hs.fi/online/?p=137

+ http://blogit.hs.fi/online/?p=19

YLE has this on their general Independence Day article http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/oikea/id48683.html and same with mtv3 http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/arkistot/kotimaa/2006/12/489062 From HS webpage the headline has disappeared, that’s true. But I think that happens always to yesterday’s news, they go to the paid section and are not shown on the free-page anymore. I can’t say anything about Finnish media generally, because I don’t live in Finland at the moment.

And “normal” suicide doesn’t get any media coverage at all. It’s seen as personal tragedy not interesting for the public. And who reads TELETEXT news? It’s year 2006, not 1985.

I think that relieble media shouldn’t make assumption about suicide before police has investigated the case. We should leave that to the yellow press. I think the papers and main tv-channels will get back to this when they actually now something.

Why would it be in the markets’ interest to help the eldelry? Like Finnpundit says, the markets don’t waste resources. Old people are a bad investment.

Try sentimental value? People pay to collect stamps too.

#42: That’s even scarier – the demand in this country to spend the day watching tanks roll down the street.

But d00d they’re awesome.

#46: What if and what if…

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts…

Every day would be Xmas!

Teletext news is pretty much the best way to check out the day’s headlines briefly. You can do it on your couch using only your remote control during a commercial break and sometimes they have issues that the other media totally ignores.

Hmm, I guess I’m in for a FFT break once again – this site can be quite nasty at times.

So long, mjr! Don’t let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

So insane… anybody who can translate the Finnish text into English? Clearly the writer says Helsingin Sanomat (read other media too) made a decision to censor the news of the veteran suicide. It is getting weirder and weirder.. No wonder Helsingin Sanomat is called the Pravda of Finland. Hope somebody has time for translating the article. The author is wondering where to find more info and HS refuses to give the link to the video. “the official info is very scarce” according to the writer.. Weird that Phil found the video link yesterday…….

Anni: See this, found at the above hs.blog
Kyllä te nyt menette liian pitkälle sensuurissanne. Kun minä lähetän viestin ja kysyn keskustelussa muilta keskusteluun osallistujilta hakusanoja Youtube-sivuston hakukonetta varten löytääkseni ko. videon, te päätätte sensuroida viestini.

Mikä ajatus tässä on taustalla? Mikä intressi Hesarilla on vaikeuttaa minua katsomasta ko. videoita? Miksen minä saa itse päättää onko julkisuudessa oleva video sitä tai tätä? Miksi Hesari päättää ottaa itselleen oikeuden kaventaa minun tiedonsaantia? Pitäisikö teidän lopettaa myös koko Youtube-sivuston nimen mainitseminen? Siellähän julkaistaan kaikkea mahdollista aineistoa, josta löytyy varmasti vaikka kuinka paljon paheksuttavaa Hesarille. Maailmahan muuttuu paremmaksi ja oikeudenmukaisemmaksi, kun Hesari estää osaltaan keskustelua muilla sivuistoilla esiintyvistä videoista. Ja nyt ei ole puhe mistään laittomasta video-materiaalista.

Virallinen informaatio tapauksesta oli varsin niukkaa. Videopätkä tuo asiaan aivan varmasti lisäarvoa. Se on fakta, ei tykkäämis-kysymys.

Yes, I leave this blog too. We can give Phil some feedback when he visits Sello.

Where did this message disappear.. sorry for re-posting..

So insane… anybody who can translate the Finnish text into English? Clearly the writer says Helsingin Sanomat (read other media too) made a decision to censor the news of the veteran suicide. It is getting weirder and weirder.. No wonder Helsingin Sanomat is called the Pravda of Finland. Hope somebody has time for translating the article. The author is wondering where to find more info and HS refuses to give the link to the video. “the official info is very scarce” according to the writer.. Weird that Phil found the video link yesterday…….

Anni: See this, found at the above hs.blog
Kyllä te nyt menette liian pitkälle sensuurissanne. Kun minä lähetän viestin ja kysyn keskustelussa muilta keskusteluun osallistujilta hakusanoja Youtube-sivuston hakukonetta varten löytääkseni ko. videon, te päätätte sensuroida viestini.

Mikä ajatus tässä on taustalla? Mikä intressi Hesarilla on vaikeuttaa minua katsomasta ko. videoita? Miksen minä saa itse päättää onko julkisuudessa oleva video sitä tai tätä? Miksi Hesari päättää ottaa itselleen oikeuden kaventaa minun tiedonsaantia? Pitäisikö teidän lopettaa myös koko Youtube-sivuston nimen mainitseminen? Siellähän julkaistaan kaikkea mahdollista aineistoa, josta löytyy varmasti vaikka kuinka paljon paheksuttavaa Hesarille. Maailmahan muuttuu paremmaksi ja oikeudenmukaisemmaksi, kun Hesari estää osaltaan keskustelua muilla sivuistoilla esiintyvistä videoista. Ja nyt ei ole puhe mistään laittomasta video-materiaalista.

Virallinen informaatio tapauksesta oli varsin niukkaa. Videopätkä tuo asiaan aivan varmasti lisäarvoa. Se on fakta, ei tykkäämis-kysymys.

So insane… anybody who can translate the Finnish text into English? Clearly the writer says Helsingin Sanomat (read other media too) made a decision to censor the news of the veteran suicide. It is getting weirder and weirder.. No wonder Helsingin Sanomat is called the Pravda of Finland. Hope somebody has time for translating the article. The author is wondering where to find more info and HS refuses to give the link to the video. “the official info is very scarce” according to the writer.. Weird that Phil found the video link yesterday…….

Anni: See this, found at the above hs.blog
Kyllä te nyt menette liian pitkälle sensuurissanne. Kun minä lähetän viestin ja kysyn keskustelussa muilta keskusteluun osallistujilta hakusanoja Youtube-sivuston hakukonetta varten löytääkseni ko. videon, te päätätte sensuroida viestini.

Mikä ajatus tässä on taustalla? Mikä intressi Hesarilla on vaikeuttaa minua katsomasta ko. videoita? Miksen minä saa itse päättää onko julkisuudessa oleva video sitä tai tätä? Miksi Hesari päättää ottaa itselleen oikeuden kaventaa minun tiedonsaantia? Pitäisikö teidän lopettaa myös koko Youtube-sivuston nimen mainitseminen? Siellähän julkaistaan kaikkea mahdollista aineistoa, josta löytyy varmasti vaikka kuinka paljon paheksuttavaa Hesarille. Maailmahan muuttuu paremmaksi ja oikeudenmukaisemmaksi, kun Hesari estää osaltaan keskustelua muilla sivuistoilla esiintyvistä videoista. Ja nyt ei ole puhe mistään laittomasta video-materiaalista.

Virallinen informaatio tapauksesta oli varsin niukkaa. Videopätkä tuo asiaan aivan varmasti lisäarvoa. Se on fakta, ei tykkäämis-kysymys.

#75

Well a break once in a while from loonies like you does wonders for the respect towards humanity.

I like txt-television too. I have no figures how many are using it in Finland but in Sweden teletext is one of the most widely used news media. Thus I expect that being very popular here too.
The Ball of Linnan Juhlat was seen on TV by more than 2.4 million Finns yesterday evening. So far the most viewed programs are the YLE TV news at 8.30 p.m. followed by the MTV3 TV news at 10 p.m. YLE journalists at the Ball did not have the BALLS to break the live broadcast and ask the audience to have
one minute’s silence in memory of the dead veteran. This could have caused heart attacks, of course .. The breaking news.. What A great idea…

PEOPLE, please don’t feed the troll!

No they didn’t cencor the news, they just decided not to show the video clips + they cencored a comment from the blog posting a link to the video.

Please refrain from commenting nonsense.

the USA is reminding the world, that at least one country cares.

lol… the mouthpiece and the cue cards

Well, if you’re going to do it, you might as well do it in style. ~shrug~

As Archie Bunker would say, “would it make you feel better if they was pushed out of windows?”

M: The original post was removed, but in my opinion too this is censorship at worst:( one more reason to believe in that the message was quickly removed …) Otherwise, good posts here, all kind of different opinions and very little cencorship here:(This Phil’s article here is the only one with the suicide idea:.”apparently committed suicide” , anyhow, perhaps it was an accident who knows. but there were many eyewitnesses and YLE might have filmed the accident. Naturally our best army forces were there too. Let’s wait what they are going to tell…..

[i]Comment by Anonymous
Virallinen informaatio tapauksesta oli varsin niukkaa. Videopätkä tuo asiaan aivan varmasti lisäarvoa. Se on fakta, ei tykkäämis-kysymys.

So insane… anybody who can translate the Finnish text into English? Clearly the writer says Helsingin Sanomat (read other media too) made a decision to censor the news of the veteran suicide. It is getting weirder and weirder.. No wonder Helsingin Sanomat is called the Pravda of Finland. Hope somebody has time for translating the article. The author is wondering where to find more info and HS refuses to give the link to the video. “the official info is very scarce” according to the writer.. Weird that Phil found the video link yesterday…….

Anni: See this, found at the above hs.blog
Kyllä te nyt menette liian pitkälle sensuurissanne. Kun minä lähetän viestin ja kysyn keskustelussa muilta keskusteluun osallistujilta hakusanoja Youtube-sivuston hakukonetta varten löytääkseni ko. videon, te päätätte sensuroida viestini.

Mikä ajatus tässä on taustalla? Mikä intressi Hesarilla on vaikeuttaa minua katsomasta ko. videoita? Miksen minä saa itse päättää onko julkisuudessa oleva video sitä tai tätä? Miksi Hesari päättää ottaa itselleen oikeuden kaventaa minun tiedonsaantia? Pitäisikö teidän lopettaa myös koko Youtube-sivuston nimen mainitseminen? Siellähän julkaistaan kaikkea mahdollista aineistoa, josta löytyy varmasti vaikka kuinka paljon paheksuttavaa Hesarille. Maailmahan muuttuu paremmaksi ja oikeudenmukaisemmaksi, kun Hesari estää osaltaan keskustelua muilla sivuistoilla esiintyvistä videoista. Ja nyt ei ole puhe mistään laittomasta video-materiaalista.

Virallinen informaatio tapauksesta oli varsin niukkaa. Videopätkä tuo asiaan aivan varmasti lisäarvoa. Se on fakta, ei tykkäämis-kysymys. [/i]

M 84:

In my opinion this is cencorship at worst too.
Perhaps it was an accident and not worth of reporting more detailed. In fact, Phil’s article here is the first and only one with the idea of suicide motive. (“apparentely committed suicide”).
There were plenty of eyewitnesses seeing the parade and they have reported the man shouted something before he lay down under the tank. The parade was naturally filmed by YLE and our armed forces were there, thus we have all the reasons to believe this matter will be studied in greater details and the reasons for the death will be find out.
We can afford to facilitate the life of veterans in order to keep the rest of them alive with decent and respectable housing,etc.

In the spririt of the Winter War: “No one is left behind”. This is also the Finnish army motto. It also gave the Winter War soldiers the high moral needed to fight against the manifold Sovjet troops in the dark and under the extremely cold weather conditions.(one of the coldest winter of all times in Finnish history) Finland was extremely badly prepared for the war, despite the fact´that all feared Sovjet could attack Finland any time. Finnish goverment had made a huge mistake and provided the army with poor and second rate armaments and many soldiers had no army suits at all.

In fact, in the beginning of the war, our soldiers were so badly equipped that they used so called “Molotov’s cocktails”(bottles of gasoline) in order to stop the Russian tanks. The Molotov’s coctails were attached on or under the tank engine.

Another peculiar way of stopping the tanks was the usage of logs. Logs were used to get the tanks immobilized. Excellent source of information is found at http://www.winterwar.com/Tactics/FINatTactics.htm
pick the link “improvisation”. There are also rumours out there that some invidiuals threw themselves in front of the tanks(like the Jyväskylä veteran did) with grenades in their belts defending the troops in this way.

It is rightfully say that Finns fighted against the tanks with bare hands.

“It seemed to me they had lots of sisu.” Yes, for sure, they have a lot of guts:

[i]
17 January was the coldest day of the war and at least the following places recorded their lowest daily
temperatures: -33 C in Helsinki, -38 C in Viipuri, -38 C in Jyväskylä and -38 C in Kajaani.
On other places, like in Koivisto (in the Karelian Isthmus, on the shore of the Gulf of Finland),
the temperature in the morning was a numbing -45 degrees below zero, and in Summa before dawn,
a -49 Celsius temperature was reported, while in Taipale the temperature around noon was -39 Celsius.
In Ladoga Karelia, -42 Celsius was measured in Loimola. [/i]
See for more: http://www.winterwar.com/other/weather.htm

I’ve seen that discussion at hs.blog. I think Hesari was right, sorry. Showing the video and linking to it wasn’t needed. They didn’t stop you from going to YouTube. And Hesari has all rights to control discussion on their own site. If you wan’t to write more freely, internet is full of sites where you can do that. Hesari clearly explained the ethics behind this, they are just playing by the international rules.

Hesari clearly explained the ethics behind this, they are just playing by the international rules.

International rules? In other words, they distort the news.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/en/426.pdf

Oops, this was ment to be here.
http://www.mediawise.org.uk/display_page.php?id=166

Showing everything isn’t always good journalism.

93. Anni: Showing everything isn’t always good journalism.

True, we can do without sensationalist pictures. But who gets to decide? Journalists? Why should we assume they are ethically qualified?

Why is it okay to post pictures of dead babies in Iraq and southern Lebanon, but not in Darfur, Nepal, Algeria, or the Congo? And why is it okay to show dead bodies in New Orleans, but not in Finland?

Reporters should only report. As they don’t, a blogosphere has developed as a reaction. If you don’t like what the blogosphere has to offer, you don’t need to visit them.

I haven’t said I don’t ike blogosphere, and I haven’t been blaming Phill for linking. And, yep it is journalists who decide what to write. Same way you and I can decide what we write or publish in our blogs. Again I can’t see any problem with journalists deciding what to tell. If you’re not happy with Helsingin Sanomat, don’t read it.

In my opinion showing dead babies in Iraq is not more ok. I don’t now if HS has done that, I haven’t seen any dead babies on their pages. And
in New Orleans nobody committed suicide, neither did the dead babies. Showing suicide is a very difficult thing to report, and the causes of repporting it should be analyzed before publishing anything. (see the links below.)

Anni: 89# 90# I could not see any dead bodies in the Ytube video. (watched once) There is no cruelty in the video. It is even hard to see anything clearly. What are the international rules you refer to?
I have seen dead bodies, even dead babies in YLE programs before 9.p.m. Iltasanomet, the sister paper of Helsingin Sanomat is showing what ever cruel pictures to childen in food stores. How can they have such different ethnics rules?

Furthermore, the man in the message (in Finnish) is complaining HS is not allowing him to find the Ytube movie. HS even removed the man’s message in which he asked other people for help in finding the Ytube video. Apparently, the man did not know how to look for the video. I understood the main question here is not whether HS may publish or not the video, THE MAIN QUESTION is why HS tried to prevent the man seeing the video!!! The man asked “Ytube search words” for the video in the blog which is maintained and CONTROLLED by HS?? Additionally, the quality of the video is too bad to be published by any respectable media house.

Finnbundit: 94#: A great response!!! I am more concerned what these so called moral controllers(major television channels) do when they do broadcast H* P*n and all kind of related mobile TV-chats. Really weird no one is talking about that sh*t. Actually they do not have any moral at all. For example, In the past, HS had plenty of s*x ads on their pages. After a long discussion and under the hard pressure from wide public, HS decided to remove the adds. But that took so long time that HS could move the adds to another place or make the “lost income” in other way.(for example using mobile chats,etc)

I think it is childish to say that HS did not show the video based on moral issues.

Then why do you think they didn’t show it? And no conspiracy bullshit please.

God, I almost read all of the above bollocks!

When one dies in such a spectacular, already-public fashion, it IS NEWS. Period.

Damn, al-Pundy is in rare ranting form here.

Finnpundit wrote: But who gets to decide? The journalists?

Right on. Someone should put an end to journalists deciding what is published in newspapers. I mean, what’s next? Bloggers deciding what’s posted in blogs? The slippery slope is obvious.

Why should we assume they’re ethically qualified?

Seriously. I bet some of them are agnostics or, even worse, atheists! Moral relativists! Welfare statists! How can we allow an atheist to decide what to write about? When will we get a clue and start dictating to these ethically challenged journalists what they publish?

And why is it okay to show dead bodies in New Orleans but not in Finland?

Are you operating under the woefully erroneous assumption that Helsingin Sanomat didn’t print a picture of the guy just after the accident? Because that assumption is woefully erroneous.

From where did you pull out this strawman, anyway, you paranoid tit? Yeah, no one has ever seen a dead body from any conflict in which the US government wasn’t the chief culprit. It just doesn’t happen. How very perceptive of you.

Reporters should only report.

Apparently, according to you, reporters should only report what some other, non-specified instance tells them to report. An US-friendly instance, natch.

98:God, I almost read all of the above bollocks!

When one dies in such a spectacular, already-public fashion, it IS NEWS. Period.

Comment by DAVE THE RAVE — Sat, Dec 9th, 2006 @ 1:26 p
————————————–
YES, lot of bullshit here, many papers mentioned the event as an accident. I am REALLY CONCERNED WHAT IF Phil did not add the video on his page. We all could think about the event as an accident. Just heard my friend told the man had prepared the action before hand. He was not the local buddy of Jyväskylä where the incident occurred.
He was a VIP-invited person and sat in the outdoor VIP-lounge with other veterans. Heard also his last words with other “veterans” where removed from the news site. The local paper puplished his last words on their web page, but I can not recall the name of the paper there. Any body knows the paper of Jyväskylä? KeskiSuomenSuunta or??

I took a look at someFinnish websites and still it is considered as an accident by the most Finns. No doubt this case can be compared to that of Twin Tower case. Veterans are holy cows in Finland and the man acted like those extreme Muslim terrorists in Israel.

94: Double standards here(dubbel moral) at the same time the Sanoman Corporation (it is huge) may publish Churc news in a Christian paper and elsewhere run a hard porn website. Who is the owner of the “Sihteeriopisto.net” website? The political elite of this country has always been well connected with prostitution and telecoms are offering porn 24 hours a day. Who are the owners of those? Big parties and and most of the politicians. Teliasonera is owned mostly by the Finnish and Swedish state. Case Jaskari introduced how deeply this country is linked with prostitutes. Big corporations and politician have always used prostitutes as a change of information or a part of payment of a trade.(tribes) Remember Sovjet Embassy at Tehtaankatu..

Yeah, I was saying should we let the politician and a small elite to decide what to publish and read!!! NO WAY!! Phil, did u already published the case Jaskari on you web? Much bigger event than this. The guy had beaten his
pregnant wife* but still running for member of parliament. Jesus,,that man has big balls and Lots of Sisu!!!

*)she gave prostitute services from their home that was leased by the Kokomus party.

If you cant find anything without HS, you shouldnt have a computer first place…

Stop whining and get real… If this would be my blog, I’d ban every user for using it. And what would you do then, whine? Welcome to the Internet.

From where did you pull out this strawman, anyway, you paranoid tit? Yeah, no one has ever seen a dead body from any conflict in which the US government wasn’t the chief culprit. It just doesn’t happen. How very perceptive of you.

Lamb -

You just accused him of a strawman and making one yourself in the same paragraph! I really hate that kind of “debating”.

Finnpundit -

True, we can do without sensationalist pictures. But who gets to decide? Journalists? Why should we assume they are ethically qualified?

Don’t you think it’s ultimately the markets that decide? If there’s demand for one kind of journalism there will be supply for it. Or is there something that prevents that?

Reporters should only report.

You’re obviously not very familiar with discourse analysis. Better get used to the idea that no reporting is value-free. Every choice of words (or in this case: choice of reporting) matters.

Anni 92: Saw the rules you might refer to:
Once more, I want to stress that the Finnish man was asking for help from other debaters of a blog in order to find out how to find the video on Ytube. It is not an easy task among million of videos.
HS removed man’s message. So he wrote a new message complaining HS tried to prevent him finding the video!!!

Back to the rules: (http://www.mediawise.org.uk/display_page.php?id=917)
This clearly tells us the problems are totally different in Finland and in the GB.IN the GB it appears it is widely accepted to show pictures of suicides. In Finland we are talking whether people are allowed to find material that may give a hint what did really happen.
That was the motive of Finnish man looking for help!!

…………………
When newspapers are given the go-ahead to publish pictures of a suicide it is equally shocking.

The Press Complaints Commission has justified publication, by the London Evening Standard, The Sun and The Times, of a picture of a woman leaping to her death. Most newspapers decided against using the pictures.

In a hand-wringing adjudication the PCC explains that it cannot make judgements about ‘taste and decency’, yet it acknowledges that the Evening Standard merely assumed that the family had been informed before publishing a photograph of Katherine Ward’s death. One of the first rules of journalism is ‘Never assume anything: always check your facts’.
—————–
I think GB is a light year ahead of us with this regard. I really like the way how Anglo-Saxon do it. It is something with the history to do.. since the days of Macbeth…

A link collection for those of you who might be interested in the soul of a one dead body. Sure, the veteran was not insane. One of the messages below is read over 70.000 times. Sure, this piece of news has a big news value. Keskisuomalainen is the name of the paper of Jyväskylä.(or Middle Finland) You’ll find the link to their article below.

This message is a so called paid link by a yellor paper:
http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=500000000000002;conference=664;posting=22000000021868642
6.12.2006 klo 15.40 read 70645 times

According to an anonymouse his last words were: “Finland is no longer
an independent country. I fought for nothing, We will meet in Heaven”.
Hänen viimeiset sanansa olivat “Suomi ei ole enää itsenäinen maa Taistelin turhaan Taivaanpankoilla tavataan”

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=110&conference=4500000000000426&posting=22000000021918925
Veteraanin teko oli kunniakas esimerkki

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=114&conference=1000000000000008&posting=22000000021889637
Vanhus ei tehnyt itsemurhaa today 17.07
==old person did not commit suicide
The story of the paper Keskisuomalainen of Jyväskylä?
http://www3.keskisuomalainen.net/servlet/page?_pageid=67&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&file=sahkeuutiset/4803177.html

Unfortunately all the above messages are in Finnish and some of them might be removed.

3# I’ve been wondering about his motives. Maybe he was sick – or lonely as many elderly citizen are. http://www.vanhuusilmanyksinaisyytta.fi

…
According to the article in Keskisuomalainen as above, he was a so called honour veteran and invited to see the parade. Perhaps higly ranked officer. This may be the reason why Finnish army is also quiet about the whole thing. The motto mentioned before: ” No one is left behind” mean literally that during the Winter War if a man got killed in a battle, his comrades returned to the battle field asap it was possible and brought back the corpse for funerals. Bringing back the injured and the corpses of dead soldiers was a matter of honour of that time and characteristic for the Finnish army. At least in comparison to the Sovjet army.
I have no idea how other armies of WW2 behaved with this regard.

i don’t like this business of having tanks in the street…phil is right finland should be beyond having military parades…leave that garbage to the soviets, iran, and other nice military states.

Anonymous wrote: According to anonymouse his last words were

Anonymoys messages that purport to tell his final words are worth less than nothing. All that particular account tells me is that the person who posted it opposes the EU.

Perhaps highly ranked officer.

He was a corporal. Read more newspapers and less suomi24.fi and you’ll stay better informed. (This assumes that you want to stay well-informed. Maybe you’re more interested in railing against the media.)

108: Soon Finland is the member of Nato and our boys and girls fight in Iraq, Afganistan and else where. Parades are just fun compared to the real war!!

109: You are able to read Finnish or? See again the extract below from HS.Blog. It is not my opinion, the writer is blaming HS for CENSORSHIP.
(A Finnish word sensuuri) Lamb, please translate the text and talk then. In my opinion something like this could only happen in Sovjet Union controlled by KGB. But it looks it is possible here too. The man’s opinion is from Helsingin Sanomat (HS.Blog) and those who do censor are HS Journalists or?? Do you think the veteran’s last words are not true or? Paper Keski-Suomalainen tells the veteran muttered peculiar words before his deed. The incident is shocking and it is even more shocking if the papers are trying to silence this. In my opinion the censorship worked very well in this case. It is nice to know that all the major television news are so good at censorship. pls. compare also the Finnish suicide reporting to the English reporting as in their rules there. What a huge difference!!

——————–
Kyllä te nyt menette liian pitkälle sensuurissanne. Kun minä lähetän viestin ja kysyn keskustelussa muilta keskusteluun osallistujilta hakusanoja Youtube-sivuston hakukonetta varten löytääkseni ko. videon, te päätätte sensuroida viestini.

Mikä ajatus tässä on taustalla? Mikä intressi Hesarilla on vaikeuttaa minua katsomasta ko. videoita? Miksen minä saa itse päättää onko julkisuudessa oleva video sitä tai tätä? Miksi Hesari päättää ottaa itselleen oikeuden kaventaa minun tiedonsaantia? Pitäisikö teidän lopettaa myös koko Youtube-sivuston nimen mainitseminen? Siellähän julkaistaan kaikkea mahdollista aineistoa, josta löytyy varmasti vaikka kuinka paljon paheksuttavaa Hesarille. Maailmahan muuttuu paremmaksi ja oikeudenmukaisemmaksi, kun Hesari estää osaltaan keskustelua muilla sivuistoilla esiintyvistä videoista. Ja nyt ei ole puhe mistään laittomasta video-materiaalista.

Virallinen informaatio tapauksesta oli varsin niukkaa. Videopätkä tuo asiaan aivan varmasti lisäarvoa. Se on fakta, ei tykkäämis-kysymys.

Anonymous wrote: It is not my opinion, the writer is blaming HS for CENSORSHIP.

Yeah, it’s the writer’s opinion, who apparently feels that Helsingin Sanomat shouldn’t be allowed to decide what appears on their website.

In my opinion something like this could only happen in Sovjet Union controlled by KGB.

That’s because, as we’ve established, you’re insane. Moderated comment sections are quite common even in countries that are not communist dictatorships.

Do you think the veteran’s last words are not true

Which last words would those be? There are the last words reported in the papers (which, by the way, had nothing to do with the treatment of veterans), and then the contradictory version provided by some poster on suomi24.fi (which also has nothing to do with the treatment of veterans). I’m more inclined to believe the former over the latter on the basis that it’s much less likely to have been entirely made up.

Lamb, you are just kidding… please translate the text first, talk then, you are just spreading false and untrue information on the content of the original post by the man who was looking for help in order to find the YTUBE video of the death of the veteran. You are a journalist of Helsingin Sanomat or? Who do you think you are cheating on with the the propaganda you are spreading? This discussion is just useless if you are not able to translate the text and you continue posting disinformation. The matter has nothing to do what Helsingin Sanomat may or may not publish on their pages. Do you really think that a man on the street can really decide what HS is going to publish?
Can you explain what you mean by we have estapblished you are insane?? Who we, the journalists of HS?
You are stupid if you think you can cheat the readers of this blog.
Perhaps you can cheat the English speaking readers who are not able to understand written Finnish but you are not able to fool the Finns.
But this is a free world and feel free to spread propaganda.

Btw. those misguided lambs who are not finding any arguments for their matter start usually naming other people.

110. Soon Finland is the member of Nato and our boys and girls fight in Iraq, Afganistan and else where.

That would indeed be unfortunate, as Finns cannot be trusted. Why should the US have yet another European “ally” that is so willing to stab America in the back?

Finland has to be understood as an enemy of America. As such, counter-measures should be taken, including militant ones, – if need be.

Funny how this suicide leads to a rather senseless and useless discussion about militarism, gouvernments, money, wealth, welfare states…

Hellooooo? This is about some selfish piece of shit that threw himself in front of a armoured vehicle (it isn’t even a tank, loser). People call him a hero on this page. A hero? A fucking coward! What about the trauma that this cocksucker caused for the bystanders? How many kids had to watch this natural born loser ending his miserable life? Don’t they have pills in fucking Finland????

Finland has to be understood as an enemy of America. As such, counter-measures should be taken, including militant ones, – if need be.

I was rather disappointed in Pundy’s recent kinder, gentler trolling approach but it’s great to see him back on track. Right on! Kick some kommie klutz ass!

The Finnish press widely reported the suicide as an accident. Just wondering why!! Below you will find an extract from the Iltasanomat of Sanoma Corporation(owner of papers Helsingin Sanomat, Metro, Uutislehti 100, television Channel four (Nelonen) etc.):

The piece of news of the Finnish Independence day (061206, updated a day later) says the the incident was an accident (== onnettomuss) The paper also published the web link(url) of the Ytube video. Thus there is no reason to blame Phil for publishin the video because the biggest yellow paper Iltasanot had already published the link)

Veteraani kuoli panssarin alle
6.12.2006 14:27, päivitetty 07.12. 17:25
Iäkäs mies kuoli jäätyään panssarivaunun alle valtakunnallisessa itsenäisyyspäivän paraatissa Jyväskylässä.

Onnettomuus sattui ohimarssin aikana aivan vastaanottokorokkeen lähellä kello 13:n jälkeen.

…………….
…………….

Puolustusvoimien pääesikunta ei halunnut kommentoida tapausta tänään. Poliisi jatkaa tutkintaa. Vainajan kuolinsyytä selvitetään oikeuslääketieteellisessä tutkimuksessa. (STT)

Katso video turmasta (YouTube)
(== see the video on the accident YouTube)

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/uutinen.asp?id=1281135

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