I used to think that food was the only contributing factor to the difference in rotundness, between Americans and Europeans. But, it’s probably more related to the poor urban planning in the states. Everything is car-oriented and kids can’t normally ride bikes to school or walk…………or even ski like they do here in Finland.

Having a parallel bike-road network is a great benefit and helps people of all ages stay active.

http://www.letim.fi/ecotrip/o10.JPG

I really liked the school lunches we had in our schools(in Finland), especially after I found out how little it cost to make them.

Kristian, I doubt kids ski to school nowadays.

WTF? Breakfast at school? When I was a kid you ate your cheerios before running off to the bus, with your lunch in-hand.

“poor urban planning in the states”

just because the USA does not regulate every little sidewalk, does not mean we have poor planning. Some of us actually move out of planned areas, as we see them as too restrictive. I even know a guy who looked for a county in Illinois that had no planning, so he could build his own house with no government harassment.

Our lives need less planning than Europe. And guess what, we like that.

By the way my neighbor just bagged a big deer. He lost his job again, (thats 3 lost in one year), and instead of applying for free money is out hunting every day. Now I have to “duck and Cover” when running to the park, as I go right by his hunting spot. He aim is so bad, I really wonder how he shot the thing.

I’m totally serious. They ski across the area behind my house. I’m pretty sure they do it in many places. Why wouldn’t they?

After all, they walk or ride bike when there’s no snow. For many, it’s probably easier than managing bus connections, especially when the weather is nice.

winter—I know about Maryland. It has many nice rural areas with light traffic. We’ve got rural areas away from Helsinki/Espoo/Vantaa that have similar planning as rural Maryland. My cabin is out there.

Problem with the US, is that the cities and suburbs are congested and designed only for cars. If you like that, fine. But, that’s why American kids are so damn fat!

Every trip consists of hitching a ride with mom-taxi. A few short steps out the front door……quick stop at the mailbox…..and the ride begins. Here, that trip might consist of walking a few-hundred meters to catch a bus; and then a few more hundred-meters at the destination. Kids probably run several km each day as part of everyday life—that is, if they don’t ride bikes.

Any exercise via sports is additional.

Kristian, I doubt kids ski to school nowadays.

I have seen this, especially when they need to carry skis to school for gym class that day.

Someguy—I saw them ski to school every day last winter. Every single day, I heard them scrape across the road, and then they’d head across the field. Others came from other directions. I don’t understand why that’s so unbelievable. Wouldn’t that be novel for child? I never had the oportunity as a child, due to location.

But, there was lots of snow last winter, and there are many ski-trails around here. But, to be honest, I didn’t count each student. So I can’t say that they ALL skiid to school. The bus connections around here are difficult—at least for getting to the school. As I already mentioned, they ride their bikes during the warmer season. In the winter, they either ski or walk.

They also do it in parts of Germany; maybe not in the center of Berlin though.

Having a parallel bike-road network is a great benefit and helps people of all ages stay active.

I think if I had one thing to bring home to the U.S. from Finland, it would be the bike-road network. It should be funded by the transportation authorities just like the road and highway system cause it’s just as important. There’s no proper bike-road network in the states because most Americans have never experienced one, so they don’t know to demand it. But I guess it would be difficult to implement in an existing neighborhood due to lack of space.

I did ski to school whenever the weather made it possible. In the early, cold janyary mornings in the moonlight, that is one of the great memories of my childhood. Well, the school is closed now, and kids from that area are driven to school by taxi… Sad.
In my area there is very few schools where it would be possible to ski to anymore. Since all kids are nowadays packed in big schools in tight population centers, the skis would be ruined wery soon when scraping on sanded pavements.

It’s a shame that the foods with any nutritional value are optional in your old school. There was an article in the Oct 2005 Food Guardian about the free school meals in the poor area of Starr County, TX – some shocking stats in it.

Even with urban planning yankees wouldn’t walk….I get incredulous gasps when I say that I’ll walk the 6 or 8 blocks to the mall to shop. American kids are obese because they eat crap and are parked in front of the tube instead of going outside to run around.

The Cook’s Illustrated folks are trying to promote a campaign to make school lunches more healthy – http://parentsagainstjunkfood.org/ – which is a start.

“Our lives need less planning than Europe. And guess what, we like that.”

Yeah you are gonna love the gas prices in 20 years with no public transportation.

With menus like that it’s a wonder that the kids aren’t even fatter. Or dead.

Think it was an episode of Michael Moore or similar that had a show anout this. In some schools they’ve actually have this healthy food program and the kids are like much more happier and satisfied with this. I think all the schools should have it. At least the option to eat something else but greasy crap for your lunch every day. Super-size me.

Just as a general observation… And maybe Phil can vouch for this…. Food portions tend to be much larger in the US. For example, at a restaurant, you REALY get your money’s worth. In Finland, it’s common to pay lots more, yet receive a smaller meal in return—especially the meat part.

Eating is simply done on a larger scale in the US. So, maybe it’s the same way for school lunches? American children get the super-sized mega-meal, whereas Finnish kids get a few little socialist morsels?

Food portions tend to be much larger in the US. For example

Yes, for sure.

Actually with such a menu plan I am quite surprised they get fat. I think i would be bored stupid with food altogether if such “food” was served up day in day out, it sounds very processed and tasteless.

We took skis to school sometimes when I was a child.

“Yeah you are gonna love the gas prices in 20 years with no public transportation.”

Why do people just assume that there is no public transportation in the US? I am in the suburbs of DC and a bus runs right past where I live and it only costs $1 to ride to work. When I was living in DC, I was able to make it into work in Virginia in about an hour.

I think public transportation in most major US cities is as good as in Europe. (and definately cheaper.) Public transport in the suburbs is another story, but then again, it could be much better in the Finnish countryside as well where you are basically a timetable prisoner if you don’t have a car.

Back to the kids. Kids in cities do walk and use public transportation. All the overcrowding on the roads, parents don’t give up their parking spot just to drive around the block. Provided they have a car at all. Many in Manhattan do not own a car and their kids are just as fat as those with ‘mom taxis’. So it is more than just excercise. It’s all the crap they are eating:)

Fred…don’t hit the crack pipe so early in the morning Public transit west of the Smokies sucks ass and west of the Mississippi…LOL, what public transportation? Fuhgetaboutit. Boston’s is OK, but hoo boy does it suck compared to Helsinki in terms of frequency, utility and convenience. Sure, you’ll get there…sometime.

Yeah Fred, stop hitting that crack pipe. It’s too early

Seriously, I realize there are ‘pockets’ of public trasit in the states. Occasionally there’s even a sidewalk. But, I’m pretty sure urban planning is more Europe’s domain; we started much earlier and kept getting better.

Finland’s isn’t the best though—public transit is kind of expensive and doesn’t run very late into the evening, waiting times are kind of long, trains are especially expensive, etc. Other European countries seem to do it better.

Our bike-road network is good, although not complete. Some major routes don’t have great options other than riding along narrow shoulders, in traffic.

I keep saying we need to get some rich tycoon bastard—maybe an eco-freak—to reside in Finland. We’ll tax him on, say, 20% of his worldwide tycooning income. And he’ll fund the completion of our bike-infrastructure for us. Imagine the possibilities……

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orrOIoZKPgs

Actually those were pre-morning coffee comments. Silly me for making a blanket statement about public transport in the US.

Anyway, I have been lucky enough to live in places on the East Coast where public transport was pretty good. I am sure there are any number of places in the US where public transport is non-existant. OK where I grew up there was none, but we went everywhere by bicycle. (North shore of Long Island.)

Phil:
But I guess it would be difficult to implement in an existing neighborhood due to lack of space.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Most of the bike trails in the very centre of Helsinki have only been there for 10-15 years. I rode a bike in the centre a lot in my childhood (early 1980s) and it was a very bike-unfriendly place.

I sometimes rode from home in Lauttasaari to school in Punavuori before there was a bike trail on Bulevardi and being over 12 I couldn’t legally ride on the sidewalk. The cobblestones certainly woke me up.

Yeah, I survived the North-Karelia heart disease prevention project compliant school meals in the 70′s and 80′s. The municipality must have saved a pretty penny with it. Those boogers certainly cost less than meat. The barley porridge was my favourite though.

Of course, next they find out some damn brain damage epidemy due to deficiency of an important fat acid in the heart friendly diet.

“we need to get some rich tycoon bastard—maybe an eco-freak—to reside in Finland. We’ll tax him on, say, 20% of his worldwide tycooning income. And he’ll fund the completion of our bike-infrastructure for us. Imagine the possibilities……”

or

you could go private on your Health plan, get better service, and use all the money the Gov took for new bide paths.

You do know its not your money anymore, its theirs to spend.

By the way your rich tycoon bastard, would have tons of lawyers, and probably pay zero taxes.

People believe that there is no public transportation in the US for the same reason they believe that there is no public health care or publicly funded college educations.

They believe it because that is what they want to believe. It’s to much work to believe otherwise. You would have to think for yourself, be skeptical about what you read, and be honest about bias.

Since I do things the hard (honest) way, I’ll admit that 99% of American cities have public transportation that would not hold a candle to Helinki. But they do have it and it works very well for rush hour commuters and inner city residents.

Finnish people are usually skinny as kids because they have so much outside sports and places to exercise.

Sadly when kids can legally buy booze they seem to get beer fat on them. I’ve seen more 18 year old girls with beer bloat in their face than I care to remember.

US kids don’t have access to good places to exercise such as sidewalks. America has so many more people than Finland, then that it is more dangerous for kids to play alone outside.

I’m chalking it up to culture differences on this one.

By the way your rich tycoon bastard, would have tons of lawyers, and probably pay zero taxes.

They might have the lawyers, but we have the courts.

Switzerland does a nice job attracting money-people. How do you think they can afford to drill those mountains full of so many holes? Not to mention all that cheese.

There’re hundreds-of-billions—maybe even trillions—in capital out there. Are we doing enough to attract the people who own and control it?

Sure, they own parts of companies for which we work, but they take the profit with them, away from Finland. Meanwhile, our bike-road network sits uncompleted.

Are we doing enough to attract the people who own and control it?

There’s a simple way to attract lots of capital: don’t be too concerned about where it came from. The Medellin cartel? Bienvenido. The Russian mob? Harashoo. Al Qaeda? Salaam aleikum. Odessa? Ja, danke.

Franklin—Take whomever we can get

Seriously, Switzerland has stars like Tina Turner, if I’m not mistaken. My cousin’s neighbor owns a farm there and gave her a ride in his horse-drawn wagon. According to them, she sang the whole time! Funny thing is that my cousin’s neighbor is more of a horse-freak, so he was less concerned about the identity of his passenger.

Generally, cantons in Switzerland negotiate deals with entertainers and other wealthy people to live there for a fixed tax rate. In fact, if I’m not mistaken, our own Kimi Raikkonen lives in Switzerland because his government here in Finland can’t accomodate him. Those in the Finnish government really need to get their heads out of their asses. It’s free money for us!

I would like a bike path from Kirkkonummi to Hanko. There-and-back is a daytrip, with power-assist. Very healthy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JksLdLq8bt4

I don’t like riding on the road’s shoulder because it’s too dangerous.

I don’t like riding on the road’s shoulder because it’s too dangerous.

I don’t like driving from Kirkkonummi to Hanko. It might well be the crappiest road in Finland. Hell of a lot of use for your cruise control as the speed limit alternates between 60 and 100 on 1 km intervals.

I used to ski to school (2 km) as a kid in suburban Jyväskylä. If we were skiing at school in gym class, the easiest way to transport the skis there was to ski to school. Ok, we didn’t skate to school, so skates had to be carried.

Mostly I would walk or cycle, or mom/dad would take me if it was too freezing. On occasion we took kicksled, but for that you need totally frozen streets.

Kristian:

“The bus connections around here are difficult—at least for getting to the school. ”

Do you ever wonder why? Could it be that the bus connections are designed in order to facilitate making use of services provided by Helsinki? So that you can have your “small-house paradise” there in Espoo. Parasites. And in the next phrase you can conveniantly whine about the metro decision, and send the buses + cars into Helsinki, one more day.

Phil:

“I think if I had one thing to bring home to the U.S. from Finland, it would be the bike-road network. It should be funded by the transportation authorities just like the road and highway system cause it’s just as important.”

Socialism. Will not happen.

“There’s no proper bike-road network in the states because most Americans have never experienced one, so they don’t know to demand it.”

They have never EXPERIENCED it so they do not demand it? WTF is wrong with the people in the U.S. They can only demand something they’ve experienced? I.e. they can only copy things. I thought the U.S. people were known for their innovations. That’s what certain libertarian U.S.-imports keep claiming here.

“But I guess it would be difficult to implement in an existing neighborhood due to lack of space.”

What’s the point in PLANNING? A libertarian brother of yours here praised the opportunity to move to meticuosly un-planned neighbourhoods, and shoot at your neighbours, believing they are deers.

Kristian & Phil:

“Food portions tend to be much larger in the US. For example

Yes, for sure.”

Not true in e.g. N.Y.C. at least to my experience. A European town in many ways.

Provo, Utah, yes, redicuously big meals, even if you chose medium size.

Kristian:

“Generally, cantons in Switzerland negotiate deals with entertainers and other wealthy people to live there for a fixed tax rate.”

If you’d like to live in a society like this, that’s your choice. I prefer one where everybody is treated equally (sound “libertarian” doesn’t it, but it is egalitarian rather).

Finland is part of the EU now. It means, we cannot – like the swiss – provide bank vaults for gold teeth ripped out of concentration camp jews mouths. We cannot offer 0% interest rate savings accounts for drug/slavery/mercenary/whatever money. The EU wouldn’t like it. Don’t you think there is a reason why the Swiss chose to not participate in the united states of europe? What would happen to their banking business, if they’d join.

#37

Yeah, I don’t think we need to start pulling teeth from Jews at this point

Insofar as treating people equally, a flat tax would accomplish that best. Not sure if I’d favor that though.

Nevertheless, if we could find other ways to make it possible for wealthy people to live here, then I’d be in favor of that. I’d be nice to have Kimi Raikkonen back

Kristian:

“Insofar as treating people equally, a flat tax would accomplish that best.”

Why is that? What’s EQUAL about a flat tax? Isn’t a POLL tax more EQUAL? Everybody pays exactly the same?

Every tax system can be motivated in terms of EQUALITY.

Kristian:

Just to make it clear: I think tax systems should at least treat people EQUALLY in the sense that everybody are treated in the SAME GENERAL WAY. Individual DEALS with certain persons is not my cup of tea.

Thomas: I think tax systems should at least treat people EQUALLY in the sense that everybody are treated in the SAME GENERAL WAY. Individual DEALS with certain persons is not my cup of tea.

I know exactly what you mean, and I agree. In Finland’s case, people who earn 25K are treated the SAME GENERAL WAY in relation to others at that income level. Those who earn 45K are also treated similar to others of equal income.

Naturally, we could also treat those who earn 1M, in the SAME GENERAL WAY as their like-earning peers. But, I assume you’d object, because it wouldn’t be aligned with the normal progressiveness.

Too bad, because Finland loses lots of free capital and talent that way. Other countries gain from Finland’s loss.

#41 To look at the ‘big picture’, this type of high-progressiveness, egalitarian ideology is the reason why such a large percentage of Finnish companies are owned by people who live outside of Finland—presumably, in non-ideological lands.

And that’s where the profits from our work go.

Kristian:

“Naturally, we could also treat those who earn 1M, in the SAME GENERAL WAY as their like-earning peers. But, I assume you’d object, because it wouldn’t be aligned with the normal progressiveness.”

Where did I say that .

But, seriously speking, I – me – think progressivenss is FAIR. Especially in the presence of sales-taxes. To what degree, and at which point of sacle “progressiveness” should end, I have no hard lines.

But MY moral judgement “system” does NOT allow Kimi Räikkönen to have 15% income tax (just to make him tax his income in Finland, rather than whatever tax haven he uses), whereas I pay 30%. No matter what.

Whether your moral judgement “system” does, then fine with me. But you have to convince some more people than me – whom you will never convince – before that will happen.

“To look at the ‘big picture’, this type of high-progressiveness, egalitarian ideology is the reason why such a large percentage of Finnish companies are owned by people who live outside of Finland—presumably, in non-ideological lands.”

Investment into Finland, isn’t that the glory of global economics? Why are YOU against investment into Finland?

And, in what sense does – REALLY – “high-progressiveness, egalitarian ideology” create a situation where finnish companies are owned from abroads?

And concerning “egalitarian ideology” – which ideology isn’t egalitarian? In one way or another?