Juice Leskinen, Finnish rock music icon, dies at 56
I’m not familiar with his music, but he sounded like my kinda guy…
Leskinen’s musical inspirations included John Lennon and Bob Dylan, but his songwriting also followed traditions set by Finnish artists such as Reino Helismaa, Jarko Laine, Eino Leino and Lauri Viita. While his best-known compositions have become evergreens in Finnish popular music, Leskinen was most influential as a lyricist.
In the early 1970s Leskinen introduced an element of realism into the relatively young genre of Finnish rock music, introducing satire and overt humorous references to sexuality. His style was typified by an unconstrained interpretation of rough, provocative and mischievous elements Ango-American rock lyricism adapted to Finnish culture.
Leskinen’s songs abound in intimate descriptions of human relationships, but equally popular were his satirical pieces which made fun of authority - especially police, and other officials, who were portrayed as excessively interfering with people’s everyday lives.
RIP
…he sure knew what he was talking about in his song “Ei elämästä selviä hengissä” (You Never Get Out Of This Life Alive)
Comment by FinnFreak — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 3:09 pm
I’m kinda embarrassed to admit that I haven’t even heard of the man until his death. Does he have a Greatest Hits album out? Any particular songs I should hunt down?
Comment by Phil — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 3:12 pm
Particular songs..? wow, what a question…
hmmm… since Christmas is coming up, I’d say: “Sika” (Pig) is pretty current…
“…minä läävässä lojuvaa karjua katsoin, kärsivin ilmein, vellovin vatsoin…”
Discography
1973 Juice Leskinen & Coitus Int.: Juice Leskinen & Coitus Int.
1974 Juice Leskinen & Coitus Int.: Per Vers, runoilija
1975 Juice Leskinen & Mikko Alatalo: Juice ja Mikko
1976 Juice: Keskitysleirin ruokavalio
1977 Juice: Lahtikaupungin rullaluistelijat
1978 Juice Leskinen Slam: Tauko I
1978 Välikausitakki: Välikausitakki
1979 Juice Leskinen Slam: Tauko II
1980 Juice Leskinen Slam: XV yö (Tauko III)
1980 Juice Leskinen Slam: Kuusessa ollaan
1981 Juice Leskinen Slam: Ajan Henki
1981 Juice Leskinen: Dokumentti
1982 Juice Leskinen Grand Slam: Sivilisaatio
1983 Juice Leskinen Grand Slam: Deep Sea Diver
1983 Juice Leskinen Grand Slam: Boogieteorian alkeet peruskoulun ala-astetta varten - lyhyt oppimäärä
1984 Juice Leskinen Grand Slam: Kuopio - Iisalmi - Nivala (Live)
1985 Juice Leskinen Grand Slam: Pyromaani palaa rikospaikalle
1986 Juice Leskinen Grand Slam: Yölento
1987 Juice Leskinen: Minä
1990 Juice Leskinen: Sinä
1991 Juice Leskinen Grand Slam: Taivaan kappaleita
1992 Juice Leskinen Etc: Simsalabim Jim
1993 Juice Leskinen: Haitaribussi
1996 Juice Leskinen: Kiveä ja sämpylää
2000 Juice Leskinen: L
2002 Juice Leskinen: Vaiti, aivan hiljaa
2004 Juice Leskinen & Mikko Alatalo: Senaattori ja boheemi
“Official” compilations
Singlet 1974-76 (1976)
Tähän saakka (1977)
Sietämätön mies (1992)
Kautta aikain (1997)
Maamme (VÃ¥rt land) (2000)
Tuomaksen Evankeliumi (2003)
Kautta aikain 2 (2006)
Other compilations
Oikea valinta: Juice - 14 parasta puolta (1981)
Parhaat (1982)
Kokoelma (1982)
Matka Suomeen (1984)
Masters (1986)
Parhaat (1986)
Slam (1987)
Lauluja rakastamisen vaikeudesta (1989)
Extra (1989)
Valitut teokset (1993)
12 alkuperäistä (1993)
Suomen parhaat (1994)
20 suosikkia: Ei elämästä selviä hengissä (1995)
20 suosikkia: Onnellinen mies (1997)
Literary works
Collections of poetry
1975 Sonetteja laumalle
1981 Sanoja
1989 Iltaisin, kun veneet tulevat kotiin
1990 Pieniä sanoja sinulle, jota rakastan
1994 Äeti (luonnos muistelmiksi, runoja)
1996 Jumala on
1998 Maanosamme, maailmamme
1999 Aika jätti (Runoja)
2002 Ilonkorjuun aika 2002
Children’s books
1987 Satuinen musiikkituokio (with Matti Pellonpää, book and cassette)
1992 Räkä ja Roiskis
1995 Räkä ja Roiskis Suuvedellä
1997 Räkä ja Roiskis naisissa
Other works
1978 Kuka murhasi rock’n’ roll tähden (diary)
1984 Päivää (short stories)
1993 Vaikuttajat korvissamme (essays)
2003 Siinäpä tärkeimmät: edellinen osa E. Ch. (memoirs)
Plays
1980 Valto
1983 Isänmaan toivo
1984 Ravintola Wunderbar
1985 Kolme hanhea matkalla pohjoiseen (with Liisa Laukkarinen)
1988 Harald Hirmuinen
1990 Mikä ny
1996 Soma rillumarei
…also, he did a great translation on Mark Shipper’s “Paperback Writer” [a humorous, semi-biographical novel (Ace Books, 1978) that retold the Beatles' story, distorting the events for comic effect]
Comment by FinnFreak — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 3:32 pm
well, according to himself his best song is Viidestoista yö (fifteenth night). Heard him saying that in some interview. He has been sic for some years and haven’t published much lately, so that maybe the reason why you haven’t heard of him.
Comment by hopeatikari — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 3:35 pm
My dad hadn’t heard of him either, but he’s a black hole of pop-culture. Anything after The Untouchables -TV-series and The Beatles is Greek to him.
Juice Leskinen is a Finnish rock-icon, but he is also very Finnish and his style and lyrics don’t necessarily translate well. Ask around, since I think that the majority of Finns born after the late 1970’s has sung his songs “Viidestoista yö” (which is mistaken for a love song but actually talks bout the end of a two-week drinking binge) and “Marilyn” (about Marilyn Monroe) around the campfire.
Comment by Anzi — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 3:51 pm
I’d have a best of double cd probably somewhere… need to rummage.
Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 3:53 pm
“Marilyn†(about Marilyn Monroe) around the campfire.
Doesn’t it get a bit awkward at the masturbation point (”uneen onanoin”). I mean, I started the song once at a family meeting before I remembered where the lyrics were going.
Comment by Tomi — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 4:03 pm
“…don’t necessarily translate well..?”
- You can say that again..!
HAI
Laiturilla illalla haitari soi.
Haita se harmitti. Haita risoi.
Myrkkyä on hain haimassa annos.
Säilykepurkissa haimassa-annos…
Väärään paikkaanko eilen hairahti
riutalta lähetetty, vakuutettu hairahti?
Olisiko suuremmin haitaksi
jos tilattaisiin haitaksi?
Miksi siis karille hai karautti?
Kirjoita!
Osoite: Haikara, (45410) UTTI
…from the book: Juice Leskinen - Räkä ja Roiskis (Kirjayhtymä 1992 - ISBN 951-26-3737-X)
heh.
Comment by FinnFreak — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 4:06 pm
Come to think of it, I sort of muted it down earlier, already before the chorus: “Marilyn, Marilyn, milloin riisut jummpperin”.
Comment by Tomi — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 4:17 pm
I’ve sung “Marilyn” in karaoke, too. It is a naughty, but fun, song. I do think that “Syksyn sävel” was more popular around the campfire, though.
Comment by Anzi — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 4:31 pm
Well, for example easy sing-along Christmas song try for example “Sika”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnE4Jmv8Fto
Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 4:46 pm
#2 “I’m kinda embarrassed to admit that I haven’t even heard of the man until his death.”
“Kinda embarassed” does not even scratch the surface of the deep shame you should feel! I wonder if you have any idea how badly you hurt your credibility as a commentator on Finnish affairs with that admission. You’d better start reading up quick. Start your attonement with Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juice_Leskinen
and to on to answers.com:
http://www.answers.com/topic/juice-leskinen
#4.”Juice Leskinen is a Finnish rock-icon, but he is also very Finnish and his style and lyrics don’t necessarily translate well.”
Very Finnish indeed, but he also spoke very good English (he studied translation in Tampere before embarking on his musical career) and in 1983 released “Deep Sea Diver”, and LP (or was it a maxi-single) in English. A video of one of them - “Rock’n Roll’n Blues’n Jazz” - can be seen on YouTube.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=StjitsQ5r9s&mode=related&search=
He also did a few Finnish versions of English language originals; “Paperitähdet”, his version of “Celluloid Heros” by The Kinks, is an improvement on the original in my opinion.
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 4:52 pm
Juice should be named the poster boy for raising the alcohol tax.
Comment by DAVE THE MAVE — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 4:57 pm
Juice Leskinen is certainly an inportant historical figure in Finn music history….I have a bunch of tracks of his music in compilation cd’s in my Finnish music cd collection(around 150),which I purchased during my many trips to finland….Buying these Finnish music cds was the most important shopping event on my list of things to do in Finland….Thankfully,I was able to pick the cream of the crop of Finnish cds,thanx to excellent guidance from various Finnish music fanatics I have met in Finland…
Many things stand out in the Finnish music scene:
1. The quality of studio production in Finland is WORLD CLASS.
2. Finland is a small country,with a relatively large number of
musical groups,of all genres of music, played by high caliber
musicians…
3 Finnish language superimposed over a strong American rock and roll
music framework shows how American cultural hegemony
permeates Finnish pop music…Add a healthy dose of Finn
melancholy and it sounds…. FINNISH!!
4. Singing in Finnish language sounds beautiful…
5. It is obvious Finns love music,and it is a major part of Finn
life….Maybe the long dark cold winters make musicians spend long
hours “woodsheding” to elevate their musical skills to world class
levels
Comment by inFINNdel — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 5:12 pm
Infinndel witnessed the sad deterioration of “THE JUICE” when he appeared on MTV3 interview a few moths ago…He looked terrible,dirty,ill fitting clothes, and sounded like he was under the influence…sad, but not uncommon for old school rockers..I did not know that he was that physically ill…
Comment by inFINNdel — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 5:27 pm
Don’t you read the newspapers? Juice was in dialysis already several years back, and on heavy meds.
Comment by Hank W. — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 5:31 pm
#13 “Finnish language superimposed over a strong American rock and rollmusic framework shows how American cultural hegemony
permeates Finnish pop music…Add a healthy dose of Finn
melancholy and it sounds…. FINNISH!!”
Ilta-Sanomat (via STT) quotes Jukka Virtanen:
“Virtasen mukaan Leskinen salakuljetti anglo-amerikkalaisen populaarikulttuurin Suomeen ja muovasi siitä suomalaisten omaa laulukulttuuria.”
My translation:
“According to Virtanen, Leskinen smuggled Anglo-American popular culture into Finland and moulded it into the Finns’ own song culture.”
“Leskinen esti näin Suomea ajautumasta amerikkalaisten pop-kulttuurisiirtomaaksi.”
“In doing so, Leskinen prevented Finland from turning into a colony of American pop culture”
“Anglo-amerikkalainen nuorisomusiikki tunkeutui kuten tiedämme maahamme vahvalla voimalla. Juice oli tekemässä siitä suomalaista taidetta.”
“As we know, Anglo-American youth music pushed its way into our country with great strength. Juice was involved in turning it into Finnish art.”
Comment by Kimmo W. — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 5:31 pm
I guess Juice was a bit like a Finnish Frank Zappa (from Phil’s hometown, btw, if I’m right?).
“Vaasankin veri vapisee”, a good laugh at army-kossu-forest-perkele male culture, is maybe my favourite. “Viimeinen kylähullu” is then probably the clearest example of his anti-establishment/nanny state theme.
Comment by Aapo — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 5:41 pm
#16–Hank W….Remember,I live in Massachusetts,can’t read Finnish newspapers here…I had not seen any reference on my Finnish web surfing as to his sickness..;(
Comment by inFINNdel — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 5:53 pm
Of Leskinen’s early work , _Keskitysleirin ruokavalio_ is the strongest in my opinion, although _Per Vers, runoilija_ also has its partisans. The _XV yö (Tauko III)_ album is a good introduction to the best-selling (Grand) Slam years, but his albums from 1980 to 1986 are all strong. _Ajan henki_ and the double album _Boogieteorian alkeet peruskoulun ala-astetta varten - lyhyt oppimäärä_ are personal favourites. Everything after the 1980s is quite uneven, alas. Of individual songs, “Viidestoista yö” and “Syksyn sävel” are the most popular, “Myrkytyksen oireet” and “Musta aurinko nousee” critical favorites.
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 5:57 pm
# 18..Aapo Zappa is one of my guitar heroes…I saw Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention live at the Psychedelic Supermarket concert club in Boston Massachusetts in November 1967..I had front row seats,and could have touched Zappa on stage…
Also Zappa stated his Helsinki concert,recorded by a Finn, was a favorite (available on Rhino records,or RYKODISC) recording quality is excellent,highly recommended by infinndel.
Comment by inFINNdel — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 6:02 pm
infinndel really likes to bogey to HUMPPA music Elakalaiset in particular….other faves:Lapinlahden Linnut,Eppu Normalli,Varttina,still trying to decide about LORDI..
Comment by inFINNdel — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 6:10 pm
Leskinen was most active in the 70’s and 80’s so no wonder Phil missed this monolith. His pencil stayed sharp however. I think “Valssaaja konepajalla” (Roller (or waltz dancer) at machine works) is clever as heck. Even the title is typical Juice with words loaded with double-, sometimes triple meanings. He said that he was patriotic, but his ‘patria’ was the Finnish language.
I guess in Savo style, Juice was neither left nor right, but vice versa.
Hmmm…Kekkonen, Badding, 2/3 of Hurriganes and now Juice.
I guess “FörÃ¥ldrandet är skitaktigt” as Astrid Lindgren put it. (It’s shitty getting old.)
Comment by Antti (the redneck one) — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 6:11 pm
@inFINNdel: Have you ever been to Lithuania? In Vilnius they’ve got, as far I know, the only Zappa statue in the world. No one actually ever explained me why, but I guess that anti-authority stance went particularly well down when they were dreaming of the Soviet breakdown. And the city itself is damn bohemian too -I’m sure Frank would have loved it.
I think I read from somewhere that Dweezil tried to put up a tour, with Steve Vai and some others, where they were to introduce his father’s music for younger listeners? Not sure if it worked out, though.
Since you’re quite into music there’s one Finnish band I’d really recommend you: Kingston Wall. That’s very cult.
Comment by Aapo — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 7:13 pm
Massachusetts,population 5.6 million…I major full time symphony
orchestra(Boston),maybe 2 minor orchestras of note…
Finland…5 million pop. around 20+ major and minor symphony orchestras..ASTOUNDING!
I saw Tampere orchestra at main Tampere cathedral..VERY IMPRESSIVE INDEED!!
Comment by inFINNdel — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 7:17 pm
Dweezil Zappa was just doing that tour with steve vai and other zappa alumni here in the states,might still be happening…sorry i missed it
it was just in our area…
Kingston Wall is new group to me,must google them..thanx Aapo!
By the way…zappa was a GOD in Chekoslovakia during cold war. His political rants inspired resistance to commies in Praque.He is credited by the Cheks as being instrumental to revolution!
Comment by inFINNdel — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 7:27 pm
infinndel explains reason for strong American cultural hegemony on not only music,but other aspects of Finnish life:
For a LONG LONG LONG time Finland faced oppression and subjugation by RRUUUSHIANS on Her eastern border..During 60’s and 70’s the youth in Finland, in order to resist and disrespect RRRUUUSHIAN hegemony,purposefully started to hijack aspects of radical American
youth culture to kick sand in the face of the RUUSKYS and rebel against their Finnish parents..American youth were rebels during that time also
(infinndel certainly was…:) )
Comment by inFINNdel — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 8:31 pm
Sika
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnE4Jmv8Fto
Comment by possu — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 8:45 pm
Juice was not so great as musician or composer, but his lyrics were phenomenal. But I think You have to be native Finnish speaking Finn born in 1940´s, 50´s or 60´s.
In politics he would have certainly been a libertarian. Anti-government, anti-taxes, anti-conservatism, anti-social democracy. In his song ‘Rakkauden ammattilainen’ (Pro in Love) he seems to have positive and understanding view of prostitutes.
I attended his concert in summer 2003:
Female fan 30 plus something: “Soita Rakkauden ammattilainen!”
Juice: “Ite oot rakkauden ammattilainen.”
Fan: ” Niin oonki, niin oonki…”
Comment by Bu Jinrui — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 9:02 pm
I don’t think Juice was a libertarian per se, just sceptical of authority figures in general, whether they be the army (”KK”), the police (”Poliisikouluun”), or the church (”Jeesus pelastaa”). Although now that I think about it, “Outoon valoon” seems like an anti-drug war tune to me.
To prevent our American friends from adopting Juice, it should be noted that he makes fun of Ronald Reagan on “Villi länsi” and George H.W. Bush on “Daisarit”.
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Mon, Nov 27th, 2006 @ 9:44 pm
R.I.P. Juice.
Aika Jätti.
Comment by saempy — Tue, Nov 28th, 2006 @ 2:17 am
“In doing so, Leskinen prevented Finland from turning into a colony of American pop cultureâ€Â
“As we know, Anglo-American youth music pushed its way into our country with great strength. Juice was involved in turning it into Finnish art.â€Â
Hooboy. Everything Juice did was derivative of Anglo-American styles. There really isn’t anything innovative, not even the lyrics, which are simply a Finnish version of Zappa. He was a copycat, thoroughly, although he was still pretty funny.
Comment by Finnpundit — Tue, Nov 28th, 2006 @ 6:09 am
#32
Of course Juice’s music was derivative - practically all art is in one way or another. Look at Shakespeare, who never wrote an original story in his life!
Comment by Kimmo W. — Tue, Nov 28th, 2006 @ 8:05 am
Finnpundit wrote: Everything Juice did was derivative of Anglo-American styles.
He did more than enough genre-hopping to make this a rather large overstatement. Listen to, for example, “Tango Iloharjulla soi”. The ’80s rock songs were derivative inasmuch as rock is derivative, but the sounds he and the various iterations of his backing band established were usually easily recognizable as theirs.
not even the lyrics, which are simply a Finnish version of Zappa.
I’m heartened to learn that Finnpundit’s judgment is just as abysmal when it comes to rock lyrics as with all matters political.
There’s a superficial similarity between Juice and Zappa: both wrote humorous lyrics, took swipes at authority figures, and occasionally talked about sex. So did Biz Markie. Now try to think of a Zappa counterpart to the lyrics of “Mitä minä Egyptissä teen”, “Hauho”, or any serious Juice song - and keep in mind that the serious songs do make up the majority of his recorded work.
Compared to Zappa, there’s a much heavier emphasis on humorous basic concepts, word play, and clever turns of phrases in Juice’s stuff. His treatment of the characters in his songs is in general kinder; the most pointed barbs are always directed at institutions. Zappa’s humour is based more on absurdity and shock value. Juice would never write a lyric like “Bobby Brown Goes Down”; Zappa would never write a lyric like “Bluesia Pieksänmäen asemalla”. This should be obvious to anyone who’s ever listened to both men.
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Tue, Nov 28th, 2006 @ 10:10 am
#29
Juice was not so great as musician or composer, but his lyrics were phenomenal.
You’re right about his lyrics, but I wouldn’t underestimate him as a musician and a composer either. For example, the song “Musta Aurinko Nousee” (mentioned by someone in the comments) is simply a great rock tune, as are many others from the same era (late 70’s and early 80’s). It’s just a pity he wasn’t enough of a singer to really hit the high notes in the chorus.
Juice also played every single instrument on one of his albums (Dokumentti, I think). And he did it competently. That’s quite an accomplishment.
If he had a weakness as a musician, it was his singing. It’s fine in his more humorous songs, but his more ambitious songs would have been even better if done by a truly excellent singer.
Comment by J — Tue, Nov 28th, 2006 @ 10:23 am
Right now, I’m listening to “Mussolini perusdiini”… hilarious.
Comment by FinnFreak — Tue, Nov 28th, 2006 @ 11:26 am
34. No guiding light, it’s predictable that you’ve once again misunderstood the point, and seek disctinctions that can be explained by personality instead of straight imitation.
Now some band like Värttinä is a truly Finnish innovation. True, it’s not appealing to everyone, but it doesn’t seem to be derivative at all from a dominant Anglo-American musical influence.
Comment by Finnpundit — Tue, Nov 28th, 2006 @ 4:59 pm
Finnpundit wrote: it’s predictable that you’ve once again misunderstood the point and seek disctinctions that can be explained by personality instead of straight imitation.
For goodness’s sake, you just got done arguing that Juice was a “copycat, thoroughly”, yet you’re already making concessions about how there are “distinctions” that “can be explained by personality”. Yeah, those thorough copycats are known for making their work distinctive by putting their own personality into it.
Also, I know the ridiculous Zappa claim is difficult to defend, but if you can’t show resolve any better than this, you’re just going to embolden your enemies. Why don’t you try to explain the obvious similarities between, say, “Olipa kerran” and any Zappa lyric you want to choose?
Now some band like Värttinä is a truly Finnish innovation. True, it’s not appealing to everyone, but it doesn’t seem to be derivative at all from a dominant Anglo-American musical influence.
Apparently to al-Pundy, a Finnish artist is derivative if he’s influenced by Anglo-American popular music, but innovative if he’s influenced by Finnish folk music. Go figure. I think he secretly views music, like everything else, as a cultural steel cage match to death and therefore distains anyone who doesn’t take sides.
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Tue, Nov 28th, 2006 @ 6:19 pm
Ah, so you reduce the argument to semantics. Okay, copycat might be a bit strong of a word. Imitation might be a better term, and concept. Juice was an imitator. He sought to imitate, but not copy, verbatim, or whatever its equivalent would be in musicology. He did put out a distinctive, personal style, - yet based on imitations from an American model.
And why not? That model was already a proven popular hit in the United States. The fact that it worked in Finland, too, only showed that it was transportable across cultural boundaries, making it universal (and here we could go off on a tangent on why so many things innovated in America have become universal throughout the world…).
As to your comment on Värttinä, you seem to forget that Finnish culture is disappearing and, eventually, will be dead. So if a group like Värttinä re-invents some old Finnish folk music as a distinctive art form for worldwide, popular consumption… well, that’s innovation.
Comment by Finnpundit — Wed, Nov 29th, 2006 @ 8:08 am
The greatest national poet of our times, he will be joining the table of the likes of Väinämöinen and Eino Leino up there. Rest in peace.
Comment by Krisu — Wed, Nov 29th, 2006 @ 9:07 am
Juice combined an older Finnish tradition, often rillumarei, with the new American and British pop culture (well, perhaps not factually “new” in the early 70s). Just listen to “Juankoski here I come”, for example. I’m pretty sure that he knew what he was doing when he wrote: “Seppo teki kepposen ja käy dum dum, Juankoski here I come”. “Kepponen”. (By the way, “kepponen” means “poika” aka kilju in case you’re wondering … ah, for the foreign audience: it’s kinda moonshine wine.) The melody, too, is an odd combination of “country and eastern”.
Which brings to mind songs like “Kaksoiselämää”. It’s pure “Slavic” melancholy, as many Finnish iskelmäs tend to be. And not only “iskelmäs”. For example HIM, which just sold gold in the USA, plays pretty Finnish songs in this respect: “Joiiin meee in death”.
Every now and then Juice did, indeed, copy black American tradition. He made, for example, two songs whose melody goes pretty much the same way as “Johnny B. Goode” (and the like). But first one of them told about Napoleon’s motorbike and the other about Tarzan. Not something Chuck Berry would have done, I guess. The lyrics are pretty pure rillumarei, something Helismaa could have written. That is: absurdism as a rebellion agains the authorities and their culture.
Finnpundit, the guest blogger, again doesn’t have a clue. Is somebody surprised?
Comment by Tomi — Wed, Nov 29th, 2006 @ 10:12 am
Finnpundit wrote: Ah, so you reduce the argument to semantics.
Yes, I evaluate what you wrote based on what words mean. I’m strict like that.
Okay, copycat might be a bit strong of a word.
Whenever you admit you messed up, you’re just strengthening the enemy.
Imitation might be a better term, and concept.
Who did he imitate? Be specific. “He played Aglo-American rawk music!” doesn’t establish him as an imitator unless you want to claim that people who play rock music are in general imitators. Maybe you do want to claim that, but then there wouldn’t be anything Juice-specific about your criticism (if I’m allowed to call your kvetching that).
and here we could go off on a tangent on why so many things innovated in America have become universal throughout the world…
Oh, this one is easy: it’s because foreigners are awed by the manly strength of American innovators like Bill Gates, Little Richard, and George W. Bush.
you seem to forget that Finnish culture is disappearing and, eventually, will be dead.
It’s true; Finnish culture would become so much stronger if Finnish musicians eschewed global music styles. Take all forms of classical music, for example. Typically Finns want to give Sibelius a break even though he was clearly imitating foreign classical composers, what with writing music for orchestras and all that. I mean, the dude employed _strings_. Hello? Is the cello a Finnish instrument now? Hell no! …
Uh, to get back on track, Finnish culture is the culture of the Finnish. We can’t get away from it even if we wanted to - which we mostly don’t.
So if a group like Värttinä re-invents some old Finnish folk music as a distinctive art form
“Art form”? You’re such a congenital overstater.
well, that’s innovation.
That’s not the part of your argument I criticized. The point was that the originality or lack of it of an individual artist can’t be judged based on whether his chosen genre is foreign or domestic in origin. I mean, you don’t have to be Greek to write an original tragedy, right? (Next up: al-Pundy argues that “Macbeth” shows Shakespeare to have been a thorough copycat.)
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Wed, Nov 29th, 2006 @ 10:33 am
Tomi wrote: He made, for example, two songs whose melody goes pretty much the same way as “Johnny B. Goode†(and the like). But first one of them told about Napoleon’s motorbike and the other about Tarzan.
Oh, he made at least six different versions of the same tune. They can be found on the _Singlet 1974-76_ compilation, as they were originally released as B-sides. Aside from the songs about Napoleon’s moped and Tarzan’s underwear, “Einarin polkupyörä”, “Seminoloogie boogie woogie”, “Vaimoni on Frankenstein”, and “Alright alright” employ the same melody.
Comment by a lamb with no guiding light — Wed, Nov 29th, 2006 @ 10:45 am
Oh, he made at least six different versions of the same tune.
Well, excuse moi, but I stopped listening to him after he made “Jyrki boy”. It just wasn’t up to the “early works”, like Coitus int, and not only beacuse Musa - or was it Soundi already - said so.
Now I sound old …
Comment by Tomi — Wed, Nov 29th, 2006 @ 12:24 pm
“Lamb …”
“Maybe you do want to claim that, but then there wouldn’t be anything Juice-specific about your criticism (if I’m allowed to call your kvetching that).”
No. Hell no. You are NOT ALLOWED to call F***pundits whining CRITISISM. ;-).
But seriously, CRITISISM should involve some insight. That is NOT the poor pundits strongest feature.
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