What do you mean it’s only a mild problem?

I’ve been looking for weed all week

Kirstian: You have obviously lived abroad for too long. When I still lived in Helsinki, every time I was on Pasila station waiting for a train at night, someone always came over to ask if I needed weed.

Not that *I* ever took them up on their offers. BTW, are fake sales legal for Finnish police yet?

#2 Hey, if I weren’t so drunk all the time, then maybe I wouldn’t miss so many opportunities

Last year Finns consumed the equivalent of 10.5 litres of pure alcohol per capita.

That’s a good weekend at the cabin for me

We really need to switch to a different habit here in Finland. Actually, all of eastern Europe is drunk like us. We should lead the way and show them all a more mellow intoxication experience.

Seriously, booze is bad nooze.

Weed seems to be the required sacrament for Multi-Culti Eurabia.

#4 No correlation. Here, for your entertainment….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tNwkQvIsGU&mode=related&search=

Thanx #5 Kristian…totaly funny clip of stoned Homer
Which brings to mind the fact,that in USA,any member of the Woodstock generation that says they have never inhaled wackyweed is out-and-out lying!..;)…maybe true in Finland also….

Heavy usage of LSD,PEYOTE,and other potent hallucinogens, by left wing youth in counterculture of America during 60′s and 70′s may explain the MOONBAT win in recent election in America…

I wonder what Erkki Tuomioja’s standing is in this regard…;)

Today on the Rush Limbaugh program,Rush stated that newly released information by certain scientists indicates that Marijuana might be useful in the treatment of Alzheimers disease ,a major cause of dementia in old people….hmmmm…Putin,Halonen could use medicinal intervention….:)

Today on the Rush Limbaugh program,Rush stated that newly released information by certain scientists indicates that Marijuana might be useful in the treatment of Alzheimers disease ,a major cause of dementia in old people

It’s always good to count on Rush in scientific matters. I’m not so sure it helps with short term memory,though.

Well, it is a mixed blessing being located at the edge of nowhere.

Finland is a significant transit point for Afghani heroin destined for the central European market. However, heroin seems to be all but absent from the Finnish market. Addicts mostly use black market buprenorphine. If the officials could pull their heads out of their asses, they could all be put on buprenorphine maintenance and the opioid problem could be largely eliminated for the foreseeable future.

I can’t reeee-memm-berr what i was going to say…..

How the heck can Finland be a major transit point for Afghan heroin?..
I thought Finland was a E.U. prime model of tight and secure border and custom controls…

Heh, according to my driver’s license, I definetely lived in the 60′s, but I don’t remember anything about that.

The best trip is early childhood.

Franklin—the man finally says something intelligent and you criticize him?

I listened to Rush a little bit when I was in the states. He was ok, but I liked Stern better.

Heavy usage of LSD,PEYOTE,and other potent hallucinogens, by left wing youth in counterculture of America during 60’s and 70’s may explain the MOONBAT win in recent election in America…

No doubt, there’s a dark side……

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-9UW9keOQo&mode=related&search=LSD%20acid%20troll%20hot%20dog

Kristian..once again you trigger a flashback in infinndel!…
that crazy clip about LSD chicken boy is similar to famous Reefer Madness epic movie…;)
infinndel remembers his own chemistry experimentation with “one bag Terkisk Pebber dissolved in 1 liter of cheap vodka” = Salmiakki
The resulting olfactory hallucinations and cranial throbbing the next day almost made infinndel swear off all Finnish alchohol..;(

Yeah, Salmiakki and some home brewed beer is all I experiment with, these days—seperately. Quite tasty………..the beer, that is

Phil, were you at verkkokauppa.com today?

#11 – I thought it was cocaine? And that surely mainly passes through as there is no market for it in Finland.

#13 The Russian border is a sieve, full of trucks. And stuff gets mailed in as well.

I think we need some mood music. Remember, it’s all about set and setting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1V-Uk1W4Zg

Maaaaan! You really trip me out,Kristian!
That last clip by Strawberry Alarm Clock sends me Eight Miles High!!
that song was one of my favorites back in the 60′s

Screw set and setting…i wannna see crystal blue sensations and shimmering,morphing patterns…

OOOMMMM…OOOMMM…OOOMMM…OOmm..

infinndel declares peace,love,harmony with the universe..a kumbaya moment….

Goddamn potheads you! It never worked for me but IMHO anybody intelligent who is against The Legalization just hasn’t studied the facts.

Btw Phil, a very late congrats for the anniversary, but anyhows, this drunken lurker wishes to extend his… well, thanks for this blog.

Obviously the prohibition doesn’t work after a certain basic level of consumption is reached. After that point it simply benefits organized crime, organized religion and law enforcement bureacracy. But it is not certain that we have reached that level here in Finland. The consumption is so low that we may be able to control it by prohibition for a while longer without being counterproductive (if you are making a national health health based argument, that is). So prohibition is still rational – I would myself legalize mild drugs immediately (and there is a good intellectual case for the stronger stuff as well), but I’m not holding my breath. For some reason this is a subject where the political discourse loses ist last pitiful vestiges of reason and logic…

#8: “I wonder what Erkki Tuomioja’s standing is in this regard…;)”

In a book that came out quite a few years ago Tuomioja says that he has tried cannabis three times. He also indicated, very cautiously, that he questions the wisdom of cannanbis prohibition.

Well, it is a mixed blessing being located at the edge of nowhere.

Amazingly many people at he edge of nowhere.

http://virtual.finland.fi/stt/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=14329&group=Politics

“Last week, the record was broken when the end of the queue was 50km from Vaalimaa.”

Now, Phil, we both know that Finland is a failed welfare state, anything good about the place must exist because of accidental reasons, like the location. So let’s pretend that Russia, one of the leading drug exporters, is not next to us – or even if it was, nobody’s moving across the border. Right?

After, what?, three years you should at least try to get the basics right. Let’s make a test: would Finland without Nokia be as poor as Poland (as you claimed a while ago)? Or: Estimate how much of Russia’s foreign trade is transported through Finland?

I wonder if the Russians have any good weed for us. Hmmm.

Last year Finns consumed the equivalent of 10.5 litres of pure alcohol per capita.

Apparently the alcohol consumption isn’t anymore about the lowest within the EU as it was just a few years ago. Now it’s just a little below the average.

GOOD MORNING FINLAND!! It’s an-o-ther Sal-mi-ak-ki Sun-rise (Eagles Mashup),in Massachusetts(Drugachusetts as a previous F.F.T. blogger claimed).
Kristian… It would be dangerous and stupid to smoke any potent marijuana that is smuggled from RRUUUSHIA…it is well known that massive pot fields are grown around Chernobyl, and it has high levels of *POLONIUM* that is sprayed on the evil KGB weed,as a move to contain foreign interference in RRRUUUSHIAN internal affairs..The dead ex KGB spy in Britain learned the hard way *NOT TO INHALE!*

#33 Chernobyl is too cold for that kind of crop production. It would need to be produced indoors.

Actually, I’d be more concerned that the Russians would show-up with a bag of oregano. We don’t need to get ripped-off anymore here, than we already do. Of course, for the most part, Russians aren’t stingy, so that might be a false concern. Besides, they’re our major trading partners anyway.

Come to thing of it, Phil makes an interesting observation (without knowing that he does): the alcohol and drug consumption combined in Finland is about the lowest in Europe. In other words, the Finns are, on average, less likely to get intoxiatet with “mind-altering substances” than most other Europeans. It would be intresting to know why that is. Schools? Law enforcement? Overall culture? Perhaps it’s genetic – as people here have suggested earlier

Come to think of it, it was Hank W who posted the article, not Phil. Ooops …

Marijuana is a very hardy plant,and can be cultivated almost anywhere on this planet…One could grow pot very easily in outback of Lapland,because of long daylight hours…BUT when i visited Rovaniemi a few years back,I observed strange behavior of local reindeer…Reindeer outside Santas village just stood in the middle of entry road,had to be physically moved out of road by bus driver..they seemed to display no common sense after chomping on strange green bushes in vicinity of SANTA’S H.Q….;)

Tomi—Have you been to central-Europe lately? I rarely see people stagger and puke all over the place there. I can’t even remember the last time I’d seen anything like that. Here, I see a minimum of 3- or 4- piles of puke when walking through Helsinki. And all the drunks on weekend nights. Many seem to think our high alcohol taxes steer people toward harder poisons, because they’re more cost-effective.

If we in-fact ‘consume’ less, then maybe we should look at HOW we consume it. Seems like we consume it all at once….or maybe we consume the wrong substances. Travel a bit, and tell people you are from Finland; they’ll ask you: How can it be that you’re still standing? Regardless of how the numbers look, in practice, we’ve forged a nice, drunken reputation for ourselves.

Marijuana is a very hardy plant,and can be cultivated almost anywhere on this planet…

Maybe ‘hemp’, such as that used for textiles, can be grown anywhere. But, consumable marijuana needs warm climate, long season and good soil.

Think of it this way: There’s competition between growers; recreational users have many choices. Do you think they’d prefer good quality plants grown in temp-controlled greenhouses (or in someone’s basement) in nutrient-rich soil, or would they sooner choose something that’s grown in cold, rocky-soiled Lapland? I’m not an expert in these matters, but I’m pretty sure the plants wouldn’t even bud up there. It’d be all low-quality shake.

Then again, it might be different if our government could subsidize it……..

A person stating that Finnish people may or may not have perhaps a genetic or cultural proclivity for excessive consumption of mind bending substances,opens himself up to accusations of RACISM,by the politically correct observer!..What is “racists must be shot” take on this issue!?

Kristian, my gut feeling, based on numreous trips, is that the English have without any doubt the worst reputation in holiday destinations like Spain. They are not just drunk but often bahave very badly, in an arrogant way, even violently. Then come other northern countries, Finland among them. In Greece and Turkey being a Finn seems to give you often bonus points. I have no idea why that is.

Sometimes you may, indeed, meet a person outside these tourist areas where people have heard of Finland, and even about the drinking-problem reputation.

But yes, some Finns do have an attitude problem when it comes to alcohol. Perhaps it’s even worse than in other northern countries like Russia, Poland, the Neatherlands, Ireland, Great Britain … where, on the other hand, at least according to statistics people drink more and more often.

Kristian…for example,in Northern Vermont,New Hampshire,Maine,and Massachusetts,hippies and yuppies have been cultivating very high grade pot for decades. The climate in northern New England is very comparable to central Finland and Lapland but Lapland could be even better for growing potent weed because of long sunlight hours…THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN STRENGTH OF POT,IS ITS GENETIC POTENTIAL!!….If more hippies and new agers in Finland recognized this fact,a new cottage industry could develop in remote Lapland areas.This may reverse population trend of people abandoning northern Finland!!

It isn’t actually all that rare to hear about pot “plantations” in southern Finland. Was it last summer when one was found in the middle of Helsinki amidst “regular” planted bushes? Don’t know about Lapland, though.

Tomi—Brits do indeed behave very badly. I’ve seen it on too many occasions…..drunk, abusive, public disturbances, etc. At least we Finns don’t bother anyone that way……usually

inFinndel—Yes, I once knew some Vermont hippies

We should probably also look into some peyote production. Seems like interesting stuff; should be a natural fit for inuit populations like the Sami. If we can grow weed and cacti in Lapland, then I don’t think we should waste anymore time. Finland, let’s get farming!

By the way, here’s something from the Millbrook(N.Y.) experiments. Near where you live, inFINNdel…..a few hours drive anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxsbCFOu7b4&NR

We should probably also look into some peyote production.

You are aware, aren’t you, that a peyote cactus takes 20 years to grow?

Then again, mescaline synthesis is about as challenging as aspirin.

Finland does have Amanita Muscaria mushrooms…Big red ones with white flakes on the cap…they can grow in large groups near certain trees(fairy circles)…may give you an intoxicating buzzz…on the other hand white Amanita verna (destroying angel) will cause 3 day agonizing death,due to liver failure… consumption of these particular mushrooms is NOT recommended!!

Well, hell, Franklin, then we’re 20-years behind

But, maybe you’re right, we should look for short-cuts. Mescaline synthesis sounds good to me.

You know, while we’re talking about all this trafficking……. Why aren’t we supplying Russia with synthesized mescaline and Lapland green? Seems like if each country would just produce their own stuff, then we’d have much healthier and reciprocatory trade relations.

Finland does have Amanita Muscaria mushrooms…Big red ones with white flakes on the cap…they can grow in large groups near certain trees(fairy circles)…may give you an intoxicating buzzz

They are among the most common mushrooms in Finland and had a role in the shamanistic religions of both Samis and Finns inducing trance. Those who have tried them recreationally usually don’t do it twice. Finland does have “genuine” indigenous magic mushrooms as well, in particular Psilocybe semilanceata, which is harder to come by and unlike A. muscaria, illegal to pick and possess.

You know, while we’re talking about all this trafficking……. Why aren’t we supplying Russia with synthesized mescaline and Lapland green?

I believe that Russia’s clandestine horticulture and chemistry idustries are more than able to accommodate domestic needs.

The most potent floral shit on earth is grown in turku by a former roomie of mine. There is no doubt. And btw, give your internal organs a chance and lay off the fucking mushrooms!

Alcohol consumption and drugs have NOTHING in common. Drugs are not substitute for alcohol. Reasons for the mild consumption in Finland lie behind the geographical facts rather than anything else. When weed comes from Marocco and other stuff from the Middle East, there are plenty of markets on the way before entering Finland. There.

.

50. Boyle: Alcohol consumption and drugs have NOTHING in common.

Did you decide that on the moon, when you realized that Americans had never landed on it?

Alcohol and drugs are totally linked (and thank Bacchus for that).

If you’ve never partied in a city in the western world, then you wouldn’t know.

http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/16909/

“The countries having more than 25 cases of drug-related deaths per one million residents are Denmark, Estonia, Luxembourg, Finland, Britain and Norway.
The average ratio for European countries is 13 deaths per one million residents.”

I saw my first staggering drunk person last night after being back in the US for 6 weeks or so in a central urban locale. There’s nothing mild or moderate about drinking or public intoxication in Finland. Console yourselves with the numbers and relative comparisons to other EU countries if you must, but statistics don’t often tell the whole story.

A French structural engineer I hired to check a house we were looking at commented he had visited Finland for the Olympics way back when….and after more than 50 years his first comment was about the crazy drunks on the Stockholm ferry.

A person from the leading “illeagal drugs country” giving as advice! Hah, how silly can one get?

I just saw someone urinate inside one of the main tram-stops, in the center of Helsinki (between Cafe Java and Sokos). If you don’t believe me, then go there and you will smell it. It’s Sunday afternoon, with millions of people everywhere. His drinking buddy held a bottle of some clear liquid until he finished……….it was a long time before he finished……….in fact, I was already down in the Metro by the time he zipped-up his pants.

I wonder if there are any OECD comparisons about urinating inside tram-stops. I bet Finland would rank rather highly.

We need to switch away from potions that cause us to behave like idiots. There are so many better alternatives out there, that are far less harmful and more enjoyable. Drinking is really the worst choice of them all.

We need to switch away from potions that cause us to behave like idiots.

You do that, and we (the majority) will applaud.

> Drinking is really the worst choice of them all.

Drinking in moderation, however, isn’t. Gimme my Guinness or gimme death, eh

Re: drugs – dunno ’bout country-wide stats, but seems at least here in Helsinki that everyone under 40 is growing weed nowadays… go figure

I would agree on the aspect that the Finnish “drinking culture” is quite a self-destructing one.

Though if we look at our Baltic neighbors, the drinking in Estonia and Latvia has gotten out of hand. People dying of drinking various illegal spirits is one thing, but then looking at say the traffic deaths – most of the drivers being drunk – then I’d say the situation in Finland has fortunately is under control.

Now trying to “educate” Finns towards a more “civilized” drinking culture, that is a challenge. Prohibition just makes the forbidden fruit more appealing.

Drinking in moderation, however, isn’t. Gimme my Guinness or gimme death, eh

That’s so true. I’m completely in-favor of letting those who enjoy drinking, continue without any restrictions. Me included. In fact, both, taxes and Alko should be eliminated, so that beer and wine can be the choice product for poor people—-rather than hard liquor or hairspray. But, I’m also pro-choice concerning other substances, because drinking isn’t everyone’s favorite activity………and it probably shouldn’t be.

I was on a bus last night and some African guy was discussing drug deals on his phone—speaking english quickly so others don’t understand. But, I understood perfectly. I could only imagine that he was talking about heroin, but he didn’t say enough for me to know for sure.

I don’t mean to sound anti-immigrant, but, let’s face it, many come here specifically for drug trafficking opportunities. And, judging by the addicts I see in Helsinki, they succeed. It’s unavoidable.

That’s why I very much support eliminating profit margins by legalizing all substances. In fact, I’m very much in-favor of cultivating our own supplies, so there is no need for illegal trafficking networks to establish themselves.

I see only benefits: We can steer some of our population—those who’d otherwise become alcoholics—away from the deadly booze. And we can also avoid the violent crime that results from drug trafficking. It’s an all-win situation, as far as I’m concerned.

Oh, but you know, as “racist must be shot” will tell you the poor African is here to looking for peace, empathy, and understanding… why didn’t you buy some smack instead of being such a xenophobe?

#60 Many would say that. And they would probably be correct in many cases. But, not in all. I don’t think it would be hard to prove that a disproportionate number of Africans are involved in drug trafficking. Perhaps it’s logical, since they come from countries that are war-torn or in similar disarray. This type of activity is just survival for them. European countries are perfect targets for them, since there’s money here……not a lot, but perhaps more than in Africa.

And, unfortunately, many of them are dangerous characters; they can kill someone and simply jump-over to the next country. It’s difficult to stop. That’s why I favor liberalizing the market—and supplying it with goods. Then, they won’t have a reason to come here……..’cept maybe for the welfare payments.

Well, a few weeks back they raided a bar in Sörnäinen. Some flower-hatted-aunties were immediately frothing over “racist Finnish police”. They haven’t apologized, even the newspapers reported that a drug-smuggling ring was busted. All the flower-hatted-aunties are doing is giving empathy to criminals. A person’s character ought to be judged by his actions, not by his looks. So if I don’t much want to integrate with people loitering about the train station, it is not because they are african or Finnish – decent people don’t loiter at the train station. So if someone who is a decent person wants to avoid being seen and treated like a prospective criminal, better avoid loitering around places where criminals are known to congregate.

The bad thing that happens is that theres a few unscrupulous individuals that exploit newcomers. Even a decent person can get corrupted in bad company, and once they cross the line, then their only prospects are in crime. Thats why I say to all newcomers to steer clear of their “countrymen” and judge the person by their character and not because they are your “brothers”. I’ve heard a few stories where people have been bullshitted totally to believe all kinds of stuff when they were “just off the plane”.

Finnish language requirements and the job market’s lack of demand for unskilled labor also does not help at all.

I saw my first staggering drunk person last night after being back in the US for 6 weeks or so in a central urban locale.

In the States, the drunks will all be driving. Out of sight, out of mind…until you get hit by one. Then again, decent God-fearing individuals don’t walk.

after more than 50 years his first comment was about the crazy drunks on the Stockholm ferry.

These days, the worst drunks tend to be Swedes, at least according to my limited personal experience.

Gee, I go off for vacation for a week and miss some great discussions.

Kristian, although I agree with you that Finland probably should take measures to legalize some substances, do you think the government would even think of such a thing inasmuch as the problem with illegal drugs is not that great, yet? My guess is “no”.

The first time I was in Amsterdam, I have to admit that it freaked me out seeing all the pot, mostly in that I was conditioned to be scared of law enforcement, but after a while, it seemed like the most civilized city on the planet. Their approach is very practical, too: why not legalize and tax that which is not that harmful and can’t be controlled by law enforcement anyway?

This idea is far too progressive for the States as a whole, but Finland seems far more progressive than the States.

Nipsu—too progressive for the States? Did you see the youtube link in post #5 ?

Actually, legalization does conflict with America’s privatized prison industry’s agenda. So, full legalization might have to wait for a while. It’s kind of ironic, considering that the US pioneered in recreation use of all types of substances. See youtube link in #44.

Hard to say what Finland would do. It will find its way here regardless. The only question is how much violent crime and stealing we are willing to tolerate. I think we discussed the deportation of some African heroin trafficker in another thread, so obviously there’s some budding activity here.

I say legalize everything and let people decide for themselves what they like. I’m sure the overwhelming majority will stay away from the hard stuff if they are educated with the facts beforehand. The best time to do it is now, as the trafficking networks get established—good time to eliminate their profit margin.

Insofar as Amsterdam, every country should have that environment. There’s no reason why everyone should need to flock there. For example, why can’t Germans go to Berlin or Hamburg? Swedes to Stockholm? Finns to Sörnainen?

We’re really kidding ourselves with all this boozing. As if it’s any better. I’ve known enough people who’ve drunken themselves into comas or developed other illnesses. What a waste.