Thats classic. They couldn’t come up with a better name?

Officials or not, the law applies to them just as much. They tried to enter the country using an illegal forgery or invitation letter. The frontier guards acted entirely appropriately in my opinion.

It’s hardly racist action, they are just following procedure. Remember, it is very vital that border checks are carried out carefully at the external borders of Schengen, as once inside people can travel about the Schengen zone fairly simply undetected.

Well, if it’s TIM Sebastian, I suspect it will match the hard talk they get when they get home. They may find themselves working in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, or simply getting worked over.

But it was truly churlish of the authorities not to let them in, and yet another classic example of the anti-foreigner policy adopted by Finnish doormen and nightclub bouncers. I bet if they’d been nice WASP Americans with a stamp from Arnold Schwarznegger, President of the Untied States in their possession, they’d have been made right welcome at Seutula, and would have got a limo. It’s probably how Phil made it in.

I’ve been trying to find anything in the Chinese news media – they do have corruption scandal news every now and then, but either this is too big a loss of face or so much of a common stunt it doesn’t raise eyebrows.

#2 JG, do you want a sarcasm nazi to come bite your nose?

Remember, it is very vital that border checks are carried out carefully at the external borders of Schengen, as once inside people can travel about the Schengen zone fairly simply undetected.

And once they start sampling our dogs, then the party is over

” but if somebody pulled this sort of thing in Finland it would be his last [working] trip.””

doesn’t Finland have laws against firing someone? Like, its a life time commitment to hire? So just how would they be fired in the welfare state of Finland?

I don’t get what the big stink is about… they acted entirely appropriately. What’s this about racism?? This is hardly racist in my opinion. The Chinese government officials were idiots to do that, and the Finnish border guards did their job. If the same thing had occurred in any country, with any person of any status and of any nationality, it should have had the same result. Perhaps it wouldn’t have, but I think this was entirely appropriate.

#4 It’s too common… And the forged invitation letter was most probably made by the organizing travel agency in Finland just because it’s needed in the visa application. The officials couldn’t care less who their are going to meet or not going to meet.

#8
Eh, sarcasm here is nowadays so concealed, that sometimes I’m not sure what to think about the post (or some comments) either.

The irony of anti-corruption officials forging official documents in order to enter a country illegaly is highly amusing.

Bunch of chancers. I’d almost be tempted to let them in just coz they had the balls to try such a stunt.

-BM

I remember an article in HS about Finns forging papers apllying for Russian Visa.

But because Finns are so ‘honest’ and ‘curruptless’ people by default, HS conclusion was that it was not their fault:))) they applied through travel agency and that was travel agency forging papers.

Off: soon we’ll read in HS that finnish peacekeepers are innocent:)

Well, the chinese tried to enter the country on false pretence. Official trips by government officials are always scrutinized more carefully than others.

And yeah, different nationals have different kind of treatment. That depends of the agreements between the coutries in question.

Is it racism that I need to apply for a visa to have a trip to St. Petersburg? Or to America for that matter..

Belino come back when you’ve finished your primary education.

Hank W. –

I’m loving the racism issue in the news lately keep it coming.
Also, I find it weird that people 4 posts back have changed their tone about racism in Finland all of a sudden…either stick to an opinion or don’t. Finland either has racism, or it doesn’t. You can’t claim that it doesn’t a few posts back and rip Phil a new one and then come in here a few days later and lament the audacity of finnish racists.

Bottomline: racist deniers are deluded. It not only exists in Finland it is sitting happily at the dinner table. Like I said before, sometimes you have to have foreigners come and repeatedly tell you the same thing before you can believe it just because it doesn’t apply to yourself.

It’s funny how no one has referenced this article that I posted a few weeks ago. Perhaps no one bothers to check these urls.

http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Joka+viides+turkulaisnuori+uskoo+rotujen+%C3%A4lykkyyseroihin/1135222532101

“Joka viides turkulaisnuori uskoo rotujen älykkyyseroihin”

Hank W: I’m sorry if I’m mistaken but I’m going to assume that you don’t speak Finnish because you often reference the english Helsingin Sanomat site. So here’s a translation:

1 out of 5 youths from Turku believe in intelligence differences amongst races.

A fresh study to be released on Tuesday announced that 1 out 5 youths
from Turku believe that different races have varying IQs. This is in
addition to the otherwise narrow perspectives towards immigrants
amongst youths.

Over 3400 youths participated in the study by the Turku Youth Center
and the Department of Sociology and Politics in Turku University. The
study compared how views have changed since the last such study was
done back in 1999.

Youths are increasingly thinking in a more leftist (sic) manner than 7 years ago, and interest in international politics remains weak.

Acceptance of the EU has also risen, and nationalism has remained strong.

Ok, I find it interesting that racism is increasing along with nationalism and acceptance of the EU, whilst interest in foreign politics remains weak. This is what I’ve been saying in many posts and I keep getting lambasted for it, so here’s my proof.

1 out of 5 youths from Turku believe in intelligence differences amongst races.

I don’t think that’s racism propagated by Finnish parents or elders. For example: A Finn might say: Immigrants commit crime, they don’t integrate well, they slaughter chickens on their living room floor (I’ve really heard that one ), etc. But, I don’t think that Finns will say: Immigrants are dumb. It’s not the usual rhetoric.

I would guess that they probably see someone who doesn’t speak or comprehend Finnish like a native, might not excel in school, therefore they assume they are dumber. And, obviously, certain cultures value achievement more than others. The youths being questioned simply report on what they see around them……and assume it’s linked with intelligence, rather than other factors.

I find it interesting that racism is increasing along with nationalism and acceptance of the EU, whilst interest in foreign politics remains weak. This is what I’ve been saying in many posts and I keep getting lambasted for it, so here’s my proof.

I’m not sure what you mean. Are you saying that nationalism/racism and acceptance of EU contradict?

If so, I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Perhaps the EU is being integrated into the definition of nationalism. Therefore, everything outside of the EU is ‘foreign.’ Or did you mean something else?

Phil, this time you are wrong.
I am Chinese and I know what the hell has happened.
Chinese officials often travel abroad using Chinese taxpayer’s money.
To travel on an “official” basis, they need to prove to the financial department that they are actually visiting the other countries’ government officials.
This case is funny because the invitation was a forgery…usually they really get into contact with a foreign country’s government officials and get the real copy of the invitation.
Then when their trip to this country is approved and they have entered the country, some of them call to cancel the official meeting.
Finnish government must have noticed this.
Welldone, Finnish frontier guards! I thank you in the name of all Chinese taxpayers.

racists need to be shot: There are racist kids in Finland? Stop the Press! What the hell did you expect, we’re humans here too.

As I understand it, it is not completely unheard of in Finland for companies to award employees with holiday travel disguised as a “business trip”. The way it works is that the nominal destination is a meeting or conference at the desired destination, which is then extended – sometimes at the employee’s own expense. From the employer’s point of view, this is more cost-effective than a corresponding pay hike, because there are no taxes involved.

Also, thanks to the pricing of airline tickets, it can be cheaper to send an employee who needs to attend a meeting on a Friday or a Monday on a weekend getaway (tourist class ticket) and pay for the extra days’ accommodation than to pay for a business class ticket, which is almost the only option if you have to get back the same evening.

#7: “doesn’t Finland have laws against firing someone? Like, its a life time commitment to hire? So just how would they be fired in the welfare state of Finland?”

That’s right Winter. Who needs facts, when you can build your case on caricatures and strawman arguments?

#3: “I bet if they’d been nice WASP Americans with a stamp from Arnold Schwarznegger, President of the Untied States in their possession, they’d have been made right welcome at Seutula…”

US citizens don’t need letters of invitation from anyone – or visas for that matter – to travel to the EU. A passport is enough.

I’m loving the racism issue in the news lately keep it coming.

What “racism issue”? I posted a few trigger words in this article to show how idiots will jump on the wagon when the case is border officials doing their job. Albeit by racial profiling ‘Tim Sebastien’ as being a slightly dodgy character.

Also, I find it weird that people 4 posts back have changed their tone about racism in Finland all of a sudden…either stick to an opinion or don’t. Finland either has racism, or it doesn’t. You can’t claim that it doesn’t a few posts back and rip Phil a new one and then come in here a few days later and lament the audacity of finnish racists.

I am just proving my point that people screaming “racism” are stupid.

Like I said before, sometimes you have to have foreigners come and repeatedly tell you the same thing before. You can believe it just because it doesn’t apply to yourself.

Things won’t become true even if you repeat it a million times. And we don’t need foreign racists to come here and show their superiority over us either.

I’m going to assume that you don’t speak Finnish because you often reference the english Helsingin Sanomat site.

In case you haven’t paid attention, this is an English language website. I’m assuming very few people here can actually read Finnish that well, as it seems very few can even read English, so it is for the benefit of the audience. I don’t have that much time to translate these articles, so it is by far easier to reference the HS English edition, also as it has a public archive that is accessable even after the piece of news is old.

Ok, I find it interesting that racism is increasing along with nationalism and acceptance of the EU, whilst interest in foreign politics remains weak.

I find it interesting as well, as usually the nationalists are anti-EU. I am pro-EU as someone needs to keep the idiots in charge in check.

#17 Gee, has this been reported in Chinese news media?

US citizens don’t need letters of invitation from anyone – or visas for that matter – to travel to the EU. A passport is enough.
Although I believe in some EU countries (not Finland), holders of US diplomatic passports need visas and the EU is considering implementing this in the whole EU as a way of protesting the USA’s unequal treatment of EU countries in its visa waiver scheme.

#2 JG, do you want a sarcasm nazi to come bite your nose?
Haha, perhaps.. it seems it might be necessary in any case.. I plead Finnishness in my defence.

#21 Hank:
The news is not reported in China, or maybe just not yet… because the news is reported all over the world in Chinese language media now. Internet works…

So, Gee, what do you think will happen? Is this a big scandal or just something that will be put under the carpet and forgotten? The Finish news media have reported of this “system” for the officials to get on tourist trips on public expense, and how common it has grown. It is really difficult then for regular Chinese I think to get visas accepted, when even high officials (anti-corruption of all) have to be looked at carefully.

It is actually funny, like a fireman caught starting the fire. But I think for the Chinese taxpayers it is not so very funny.

Hank W.: do you want a sarcasm nazi to come bite your nose?

Hank, you keep coining these excellent terms!

Hank W.

As you might have noticed before answering me in such a condescending manner, I didn’t actually refer to this post at all. I was referring the ones posted before.
However that is an honest mistake and I did post it here, so I’ll forgive you for it. I posted it here because this was the most recent article by you, that’s all.

“Things won’t become true even if you repeat it a million times. And we don’t need foreign racists to come here and show their superiority over us either.”

That has nothing to do with what I said, but interpret it as you wish, I am in no mood to correct you if you failed to understand my point.

“In case you haven’t paid attention, this is an English language website. I’m assuming very few people here can actually read Finnish that well, as it seems very few can even read English, so it is for the benefit of the audience. I don’t have that much time to translate these articles, so it is by far easier to reference the HS English edition, also as it has a public archive that is accessable even after the piece of news is old.”

Why, thank you. And yes I did realize that the website is in english.
But excuse me for assuming that a guy named ‘Hank’ doesn’t speak Finnish.
“I’m sorry if I’m mistaken but I’m going to assume that you don’t speak Finnish”
So cut out the antagonizing attitude. I showed you respect so I expect it right back. The condescending manner like you’re speaking to a child was unnecessary. There’s no reason for it and it only makes you seem like a pissy jackass, not me.

What a nice blog it is when someone can say ‘i’m sorry if i’m wrong’ and then get responded to like an 8th grader.
And lastly, may I say that in the immigrant pizzeria case a few posts back according to you it really was vandalized by racists. So again, i’m sorry, but the ‘people screaming racism’ were right after all.
That means they were right, and the others were wrong. And that should hardly happen if they really are stupid.

The pizzeria in Kajaani was vandalized by “a” racist. One. And the case had nothing to do with the previous “attack by racists”. So I am still saying I am right.

You are using “racism” as some sort of wholesale term. If you look up the definition, it is “belief on the superiority of your race”. So if the Finn thinks his way is better, does that make him a racist? No, because the Finnish way in Finland is the better one. As is the Swedish way in Sweden or the Pizza way in the Pizzeria. You don’t go to a pizzeria and ask for a hamburger? Right.

If the people “attacked the pizzeria” – which was proven wrong even you froth-mouthed idiots still claim so, just because they did not like the pizza guys on the sole basis of their skin color and ethnicity – that is “racism”. If the fight started due to a disagreement over pizza or hamburger, then it is not a “racist attack”. The cultural misunderstanding/miscommunication works two ways.

Lets make an easy example. My neighbour plays music full blast 3 am. I go knock on his door and threaten to make him eat his CD if he does not stop.

It should not make a difference if the neighbour is a Finn or a foreigner, should it now?

However your kind of antifinites will start scream “racist attack” if the neighbour happens to be a foreigner.  So stop calling Finns racists when they are not.

I am treating you as a stupid child that is only because you are one.

But excuse me for assuming that a guy named ‘Hank’ doesn’t speak Finnish.

Thats racism! You Should be Shot!

Chinese society somehow generates this type of stunt. From pirating to corruption to cheating on exams in school, to ripping off employees, to industrial espionage, to polluting or having unsafe work or public places, individual gain – no matter how obtained – seems to be the core ethic, not only for the elite but throughout all strata of society. China is just a more sophisticated, organized and successful version of Nigeria. Eventually, their society will suffer from it. However, my fear is that China gets too powerful and starts to exploit and bully its neighbours in Asia with the same elan as they transact their other business.

28. I showed you respect so I expect it right back.

Since when did “racists” ever show respect to anyone?

It seems that his narcissism is being wounded, and with the blindness of the narcissist, he doesn’t understand why.

Narcissism, of course, is the one neurosis that can never be cured, since the narcissist can’t accept that others might be better than him in his chosen preoccupations. So it becomes quite pointless and fruitless to even debate with one.

“Although I believe in some EU countries (not Finland), holders of US diplomatic passports need visas and the EU is considering implementing this in the whole EU as a way of protesting the USA’s unequal treatment of EU countries in its visa waiver scheme.”

If the diplomatic passport holder wants to enjoy diplomatic immunity, then he needs to have a visa permitting entry. Those with diplomatic passports still have to be permitted entry into a country, it does not give you free access to enter at will. Also, countries have the right to demand your removal, especially those with a diplomatic passport.

As for the unequal treatment of EU members, be happy the US does not put Finns in with the Belgians who are not able to account for hundreds of passports that have been stolen from local offices around their country. They are now being picked up left and right, often in the hands of criminals.

Finnpundit:

“Narcissism, of course, is the one neurosis that can never be cured, since the narcissist can’t accept that others might be better than him in his chosen preoccupations. So it becomes quite pointless and fruitless to even debate with one.”

STILL??
Do you even bother to read what I say???

So AGAINNNN:
KEEP ‘EM COMING. DON’T ADDRESS ANY OF THE ISSUES. THIS IS LIKE YOUR 10TH POST ABOUT MY CHARACTER. FOR A HETEROSEXUAL MAN, YOU SEEM TO BE EXTREMELY INTERESTED IN MY CHARACTER.
YOU ARE MOST AMUSING.

Hank W.

There is a difference between a Finn who thinks ‘his way is better’ and a Finn who thinks he is born better.
What does it matter that there ‘was 1′ person who attacked the pizzeria???
Do you require a gang of racists before it qualifies as a racist attack??

Your argument about your neighbor and his loud music at 3pm is invalid. You keep using arguments that do not have anything to do with the arguments at hand. Just like the Nigeria one in the other thread.
These pizzeria owners have repeatedly claimed that they have been attacked by racists and have been victims of racist abuse.
Let me paraphrase what Phil said in that argument:
No one in his right mind attacks a 10 person gang alone, or even with a few guys with him.
They are clearly frustrated, and have clearly been abused.
The fact that 1 person later attacked the pizzeria because of race issues and not a hamburger/pizza confusion proves that they have been victims of racist abuse.
Do you think it was the first time that guy visited the pizzeria??
Do you honestly believe that the occasion for this arrest was the first time he had ever come across that pizzeria?? OF COURSE NOT.
He probably had several altercations with them before he decided to vandalize the place.

I fail to understand why you are all wholly unable to come out and say yes, these people have been victims of racism. Period.

“I am treating you as a stupid child that is only because you are one.”

The fact that you continue to denigrate me shows that you have the mentality of a child, and not me. You are acting as any street punk or bully, which reveals the truth about your character, and not mine.
I am fair. I show respect to those who respect me, and to those that don’t, I will treat in the manner they have set for the engagement.
So here are my comments on your character:
The fact that you still argue using examples that have absolutely nothing to do with the arguments at hand show a scattered mind. You are unable to focus on the matter at hand and are only interested in arguing at this point so as not to lose face and be proven wrong.
You put words in my mouth that I never uttered, and you misinterpret the things I did say so as to continue arguing your points. Lastly, you are in complete denial when it comes to the facts. The facts here are that a pizzeria owner repeatedly complained about racist abuse, and then was proven to be abused. That is it. You try to hide these facts and distort the truth so that you don’t have to face the uncomfortable fact that racism exists in a first-world country like Finland and nothing is being done to address it.
This denial of fact shows that you have the mentality of a child, and not me, because I was able to come to terms with the truth, and you are still unable to do so.
Next time stick to the argument. You were wrong to disparage me, and are trying again to cover up that fact by adding more insults to cover your ass.
You are slowly slipping down to the level of Finnpundit.

34. Oh, uhm, narcissism is the one neurosis that can never be cured.

By the way.

Lastly, you are in complete denial when it comes to the facts.

You are the one that is in denial of the facts. You are inventing the story to fit your views.
These pizzeria owners have repeatedly claimed that they have been attacked by racists and have been victims of racist abuse.

And if I go repeatedly to tell my foreign neighbour to shut his CD player at 3am, is he a victim of racist abuse? How about if he claims so? Does it make it a fact if he claims so repeatedly?

The truth is that you are over-exaggerating the problem. Where do you see I am denying there is racism in Finland? Of course there is, it is a world-wide phenomenon. However you are denigrating Finland and the people by blowing the issues out of proportion. If we believe that the “Finnish way is better” then you are screaming racism.

Here’s a little blog enntry I came by recently:

Foreigners are just leeches sucking the blood right out of Singapore. They just flock here like locusts and they actually get paid ridiculously for it. I don’t believe our fellow Singaporeans can’t do what these white trashes do. And they have that “higher than thou, bow to me attitude”. And some actually have the gall to open their trap in circumstances which are none of their business. Tell them all to crawl back wherever they crawled out from. PLEASE.

I don’t think this Singaporean is racist by nature. I think he is becoming that way because of facing a “higher than thou, bow to me attitude”. So should we tell the Singaporean to stop being racist, or should we tell the ‘white trashes’ to change their attitude?

“The truth is that you are over-exaggerating the problem. Where do you see I am denying there is racism in Finland? Of course there is, it is a world-wide phenomenon.”

Ahahahahahaha. I find it hilarious that you’re still arguing with me.
Basically you just told me I’m right but you still want to argue.

Look. I am a Finn, and this blog is about Finland, and this topic is about racism.
I’ll repeat myself:

You’re arguments are fundamentally stupid, because Singapore isn’t a first-world country like Finland. Why compare Finland with Singapore???
If we had a discussion about the backwardness of a country and you were telling me Finland is extremely backward, would it be an appropriate response for me to say:

“Yeah but we’re less backward than the Taleban in Afghanistan so why don’t you go to the Taleban blog and complain there before coming here!”

I hope that analogy will finally make it clear to you how ridiculous that argument is.

But thank you for admitting that there is racism in Finland.
Will you use Mexico next?
Or perhaps Libya?

I don’t care whether these countries are more racist than Finland because that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. I can’t understand why you’re still referring to other nations.

It’s like a child, who when caught, tattles on another kid so his punishment would be less.

but then again,
you are trying at least.

which is more than i can say for Finnpundit’s impaired blubbering.

Finnpundit you’re starting to sound like one of those crazy people in asylums who keep repeating themselves over and over and over and over and over again…

did you get stuck on a thought and couldn’t move past it for 5 days? ahahaha…perhaps you’re just reeeaaallly old and can only squeeze out 1 feeble-minded thought per week.

The more racists is being challenged on the use of his circular logistics, the more he seems to resort to evasive tactics like derision and mockery. I suppose the need to make us hate him becomes the final defense against the unbearable notion that his logical structures are not enough to validate his own narcissistic notions of superiority.

#38. Singapore not a first-world country? Thats news to me. I’m really glad you came out and confessed your stupidity. *You* are the one that says that the “foreigners must come here and tell how racist we are”. Now where do these foreigners come from? They’re not Finns from Finland as far as I know. If I cannot compare their countries to mine, why should I then let them tell me aything? You’re the one with the circular logic.

You brought your “Australian friend” in as an example. What does an “Australian friend” have to do with Finland? They don’t live here nor understand anything that is going on here. As far as I know the track record of Australia in handling the aboriginals as well as their current asylum seekers processing is well beneath any standards they should be in the position to open their mouths.

It is all about the concept framework, your example of the Afghanistani taleban is a good one – if someones concept framework of housing is a tent in the mountains, who are they to come complain of Finnish housing being backwards? If you complain Jakomäki is a ghetto, you should get a few more convincing people to claim it is a ghetto. If you get a few people having lived in a ghetto they might surprise you by saying Jakomäki is close to paradise after a real ghetto neighborhood. So Jakomäki doesn’t turn into a ghetto even if you repeat it a hundred times. It might seem like a ghetto to your limited experience, but that is your problem, inside your own head.

Again: And if I go repeatedly to tell my foreign neighbour to shut his CD player at 3am, is he a victim of racist abuse? How about if he claims so? Does it make it a fact if he claims so repeatedly?

Hank W. –

My example of an Australian is much more valid than your analogy of Singapore. I don’t know why you try to compare Finland with the worst of the bunch.

That’s like saying it’s ok for Finland to get a C- in something if Saudi Arabia gets a D.

And your example of the neighbor is not valid either because it isn’t motivated by racial issues. If you allowed a white native to play his music constantly but only attacked the foreigner, then that would be suspicious. Or if you went over there and were more abusive than you would have been with a native, then that would also be suspicious. What exactly are you trying to prove with that example?

And Finnpundit – If I had the energy I would collect all the things you’ve been repeating over and over and over and over and over again in the 3 threads and paste them onto here to show you that you are:

a) Quite insane.
b) Quite stupid
c) Doing it on purpose so as not to lose face by actually attempting to debate with me like Hank W. is.

So pick one of them and let us know which one you are.

And your example of the neighbor is not valid either because it isn’t motivated by racial issues.

Yes, I know that. But if he *claims* it. Then you start whining about “racist Finns” without finding out the facts. Just like in the Kajaani pizzeria case. You just claim “Finns to be racists” automatically. You may not grasp the idea that if you accuse someone to be “racist” you will need to have some facts to back it up.

42. There’s not much point to debating anything with you, as you already decide the terms of the debate from the get go. Given the example of your preset “multiple choice options” style of debate (which are never really options at all), it seems that you’re simply intent on bending others to your will, in a rather brazen display of narcissism.

I am not narcissus, I am a rose